Looks good. I was thinking never remove the Rats, but against a U/W control deck, it may be OK. We would want to make their Supreme Verdicts a dead card.
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The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
Looks good. I was thinking never remove the Rats, but against a U/W control deck, it may be OK. We would want to make their Supreme Verdicts a dead card.
It also depends if you are on the draw or play. If on the draw, I think cutting 1-2 pack rats is the right call.
EDIT: Against MUD splash for white, I occasionally take out all 4 pack rats.
They're good (not great) for the Grull matchup, so yea, keep 2?
Here's the most common creatures they run:
Kalonian Tusker
Elvish Mystic
Courser of Kruphix
Burning-Tree Emissary Deadbridge Goliath Sylvan Caryatid Polukranos, World Eater Stormbreath Dragon Ghor-Clan Rampager
The trick is keeping the dorks off the board.
The Zombies and Thoughtseize shine here keeping the BTE off the board. If they land one it's an uphill battle. Forces you to play defensive and reactive.
Running on 3 UC also cripples you against the mirror.
Honestly... I'm actually thinking a third UC is necessary in the mirror (in my build). Of course... that's also because I run x2 ashiok, nightmare weavers. Which acts like quasi-underworld connections. VS BW Midrange I usually do not add a 4th connections and don't regret it.
The question becomes; however, is having an extra duress better or worse than an extra connections?
@axman
I was answering the question about Duress vs Connections, I didn't say anything about Ashiok, which is always cool.
Running on 3 UC also cripples you against the mirror.
Honestly... I'm actually thinking a third UC is necessary in the mirror (in my build). Of course... that's also because I run x2 ashiok, nightmare weavers. Which acts like quasi-underworld connections. VS BW Midrange I usually do not add a 4th connections and don't regret it.
The question becomes; however, is having an extra duress better or worse than an extra connections?
@axman
I was answering the question about Duress vs Connections, I didn't say anything about Ashiok, which is always cool.
Oh my bad xD. I sincerely apologize.
And yea. I agree with you.
EDIT: Typically against the mirror I -2 pack rat, -2 demon, +2 erebos god of the dead, +1 connections, +1 pithing needle
I don't like removing additional creatures/removal for duress. I'd much rather pack my board of threats and be proactive rather than reactive.
UPDATE: I'm actually having second thoughts about nightveil specter main. Yes Nightveil is awesome and is better VS a large range of matchups in comparison to Zombie. (mainly RW burn, MBD,RDW, Mono-Black Aggro, etc.)
But by taking out specter for zombie, we free up valuable SB space. By moving zombies to the main, I get three more side board slots which could be used for whip and dark betrayal.
ATM I'm experimenting with moving the zombies to main in favor of +2 dark betrayal, +1 whip in the side.
My honest thoughts ax are splashing for white. Sometimes I feel great with the deck and it can do no wrong. And other times I feel like I can't win a single match up. With the white splash we all the same the things and are better against the mono black decks. We can face pact rat, gain life with blood baron, have all the same removal and main the lifebane zombie. We can side all the same things and also revoke existence for any enchantment( thassa counts too)
UPDATE: I'm actually having second thoughts about nightveil specter main. Yes Nightveil is awesome and is better VS a large range of matchups in comparison to Zombie. (mainly RW burn, MBD,RDW, Mono-Black Aggro, etc.)
But by taking out specter for zombie, we free up valuable SB space. By moving zombies to the main, I get three more side board slots which could be used for whip and dark betrayal.
ATM I'm experimenting with moving the zombies to main in favor of +2 dark betrayal, +1 whip in the side.
What are your thoughts?
Not worth it. It improves the GR matchup, but worsens Mono-U, Mono-B, Esper, aggro, and arguably RW Burn. In other words, everything except GR.
I wouldn't splash for white and I wouldn't move the Specters out of the 75. If you want to, you can switch Zombie/Specter, but I wouldn't drop one for the other.
As for splashing, if I was to splash it would be for Dissolve, Voyage's End or Essence Scatter. Just my opinion.
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The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
I think splashing two colors is more effective than one. The manabase isn't affected much, and you get access to more cards. I'm currently splashing white and blue, and it's working out really well for me, so much that I'm even planning to run the deck at a GP.
There is no way the matchup is worse against everything except monsters. It's better than mono black because of blood baron. We have all the same kill spells as the mono black deck does with is fine against aggro and rw. Don't see where you are coming from soviet. And if you are splashing 2 colors, then you are losing the consistency from mono black.
Maybe Im wrong...but I feel like Nightveil Specter is inferior to Lifebane Zombie. Every since i cut specter, I feel as though the deck actualy performs better against the field as a whole. Sure Lifebane zombie cant steal a card away from mono blue devotion, but it does give us informtion, provide a 3/1 that cant be blocked...and lets face it, blue devotion is fairly light on removal, so ive had this guy beat face with delver style evasion :). Not that blue devotion is the only thing we see anymore, but its just an example. Ill agree that zombie does nothing against esper, but esper represents just a very small portion of the meta...and thats why we have a sideboard :). Nightveil specter to me always just seems like a bad card that provided 3 devotion, which was fine; but in my humble opinion, the gains from running zombie outweigh the losses from not running specter.
Someone mentioned valuable sideboard space...i agree with you to an extent. I say it that way because I am going to start splashing red for valuable tools against any orzhov deck. Once again, not that this is the only deck, but i do feel as though it does well in the mono black mirrorish matchups. Splashing red for mortars and slaughter games ONLY. We wont be running and MD red cards. Im hoping this can be sopported by running 4x temple of malice and 4x blood crypt. But push comes to shove...may i can add a poop guildgaet :-(. But anyway, i feel like our post board games against esper are pretty darn strong anyway with the addition of cards like duress. The decks that seems to give me the most trouble are the GR Domri shell decks...jund or gr which ever. Any MD advantage against these decks seems ok. Given more spots in the sb allows us to retool our removal packages to adapt to the changing meta.
One final note...at first I kind of felt like people were trying to be too cute by adding spalsh colors just because they could, but lately I can see doing so to narrow your strategies against certain decks. I feel like the core of this deck is so damn good anyway, that I am a little cautious about moving away from the mono black. I think splash options in the sb are fine, but the brutal consistantcy of MBD is why it remains the king of standard; to mess with such things could actually make this deck worse imo.
Pretty stock MBD nothing really new to see here. Just added slaughter games and mortars to the board and slightly changed the mana.
Before you stick your nose up against Pharika's cure, keep in mind that RDW is everywhere too in my game. Pharika's cure can give us a needed tempo boost.
UPDATE: I'm actually having second thoughts about nightveil specter main. Yes Nightveil is awesome and is better VS a large range of matchups in comparison to Zombie. (mainly RW burn, MBD,RDW, Mono-Black Aggro, etc.)
But by taking out specter for zombie, we free up valuable SB space. By moving zombies to the main, I get three more side board slots which could be used for whip and dark betrayal.
ATM I'm experimenting with moving the zombies to main in favor of +2 dark betrayal, +1 whip in the side.
What are your thoughts?
Not worth it. It improves the GR matchup, but worsens Mono-U, Mono-B, Esper, aggro, and arguably RW Burn. In other words, everything except GR.
Owen actually sided in zombies in the Mono-Blue matchup. And the new breed of Mono blue runs white for spheres and ephera.
Maybe Im wrong...but I feel like Nightveil Specter is inferior to Lifebane Zombie. Every since i cut specter, I feel as though the deck actualy performs better against the field as a whole. Sure Lifebane zombie cant steal a card away from mono blue devotion, but it does give us informtion, provide a 3/1 that cant be blocked...and lets face it, blue devotion is fairly light on removal, so ive had this guy beat face with delver style evasion :). Not that blue devotion is the only thing we see anymore, but its just an example. Ill agree that zombie does nothing against esper, but esper represents just a very small portion of the meta...and thats why we have a sideboard :). Nightveil specter to me always just seems like a bad card that provided 3 devotion, which was fine; but in my humble opinion, the gains from running zombie outweigh the losses from not running specter.
Someone mentioned valuable sideboard space...i agree with you to an extent. I say it that way because I am going to start splashing red for valuable tools against any orzhov deck. Once again, not that this is the only deck, but i do feel as though it does well in the mono black mirrorish matchups. Splashing red for mortars and slaughter games ONLY. We wont be running and MD red cards. Im hoping this can be sopported by running 4x temple of malice and 4x blood crypt. But push comes to shove...may i can add a poop guildgaet :-(. But anyway, i feel like our post board games against esper are pretty darn strong anyway with the addition of cards like duress. The decks that seems to give me the most trouble are the GR Domri shell decks...jund or gr which ever. Any MD advantage against these decks seems ok. Given more spots in the sb allows us to retool our removal packages to adapt to the changing meta.
One final note...at first I kind of felt like people were trying to be too cute by adding spalsh colors just because they could, but lately I can see doing so to narrow your strategies against certain decks. I feel like the core of this deck is so damn good anyway, that I am a little cautious about moving away from the mono black. I think splash options in the sb are fine, but the brutal consistantcy of MBD is why it remains the king of standard; to mess with such things could actually make this deck worse imo.
Pretty stock MBD nothing really new to see here. Just added slaughter games and mortars to the board and slightly changed the mana.
Before you stick your nose up against Pharika's cure, keep in mind that RDW is everywhere too in my game. Pharika's cure can give us a needed tempo boost.
One potential problem with cure; however, is Boros Burn does not run alot of creatures. maybe 10-12. Maybe. If they draw no creatures (and only burn spells) its a dead card.
EDIT: If people play RDW its "ok". But if people in your play group transition to creature-light burn decks, it becomes far worse.
Would you mull or keep this hand? Game 1 Match 1 (no idea who my opponent was at the time)
Temple of Deceit
Watery Grave x2
Mutavault
Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver (I value this card as a connections)
Thoughtseize
Gray Merchant
My initial thoughts was a little too high on the land count. But with one scry land and a thoughtseize, I decided it was worth the risk. Your thoughts?
There is no way the matchup is worse against everything except monsters. It's better than mono black because of blood baron. We have all the same kill spells as the mono black deck does with is fine against aggro and rw. Don't see where you are coming from soviet. And if you are splashing 2 colors, then you are losing the consistency from mono black.
I'm a little confused. What does Blood Baron have to do with anything?
As for the splashes, I actually lose very little consistency. I essentially end up trading 2-4 life per game (but usually 2) from shocks and a couple black sources (at any given moment, I could be at either 18 or 19) for more raw power.
My honest thoughts ax are splashing for white. Sometimes I feel great with the deck and it can do no wrong. And other times I feel like I can't win a single match up. With the white splash we all the same the things and are better against the mono black decks. We can face pact rat, gain life with blood baron, have all the same removal and main the lifebane zombie. We can side all the same things and also revoke existence for any enchantment( thassa counts too)
Splashing white is respectable. I myself have thought about that. However... I hesitate. Mostly because the BW version relies (typically) on blood baron instead of merchant for life gain. I don't like baron. It dies vs red... and jund is on the rise. But that is a personal preference. BW is still an amazing deck you can do well with.
There is no way the matchup is worse against everything except monsters. It's better than mono black because of blood baron. We have all the same kill spells as the mono black deck does with is fine against aggro and rw. Don't see where you are coming from soviet. And if you are splashing 2 colors, then you are losing the consistency from mono black.
I'm a little confused. What does Blood Baron have to do with anything?
As for the splashes, I actually lose very little consistency. I essentially end up trading 2-4 life per game (but usually 2) from shocks and a couple black sources (at any given moment, I could be at either 18 or 19) for more raw power.
Statistically running 3 colors is not more consistent than running one color. And if you are running 3 colors it makes your gray merchants worse. I don't know if splashing white is the answer. I also think that Krovax brings up the best point. The mono black deck is so consistent that it's hard to try and add different cards because it just doesn't make sense. It's so tight it's best to leave it alone. I'm still flip-flopping between zombie and specter. I honestly don't know which way to go. I beat a Gw deck tonight and took 6 cards with my nightveil. I could only cast his plains but that was 6 cards he did not have access to. An unanswered specter does a lot of work. Now on the complete opposite side the zombies would have been way better in that matchup. Still torn, still don't know which one I'm main decking.
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Thanks to xeno for the sig and avvy!!!
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VS GRx Monsters
-4 Nightveil Specter
-1 packrat
-1 connection
+3 Lifebane Zombie
+1 Pithing Needle
+2 Doom Blade
VS GRx Colossal Gruel (any monster deck running chandra + garruk)
-4 Nightveil Specter
-1 Packrat
-1 connection
-2 Bile Blight
+2 duress
+3 Zombie
+1 Pithing Needle
+2 doomblade
VS MUD
-3 connections
-1 pack rat
+2 Doom blade
+2 drown in sorrow
VS control
-4 Devour
-2 Bile
-1 other creature
-4 pack rat
+4 duress
+3 Zombie
+1 pithing needle
+2 erebos, god of the dead
+1 connection
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
It also depends if you are on the draw or play. If on the draw, I think cutting 1-2 pack rats is the right call.
EDIT: Against MUD splash for white, I occasionally take out all 4 pack rats.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Here's the most common creatures they run:
Kalonian Tusker
Elvish Mystic
Courser of Kruphix
Burning-Tree Emissary
Deadbridge GoliathSylvan CaryatidPolukranos, World EaterStormbreath DragonGhor-Clan RampagerThe trick is keeping the dorks off the board.
The Zombies and Thoughtseize shine here keeping the BTE off the board. If they land one it's an uphill battle. Forces you to play defensive and reactive.
The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
Love this site to see what decklists look like.
The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
Duress, Thoughtseize and LBZ shine here. MBD should walk all over this deck without issue G2 & 3
The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
LBZ doesn't really shine vs Boros Burn? Duress and thoughtseize though destroys that matchup.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
@axman
I was answering the question about Duress vs Connections, I didn't say anything about Ashiok, which is always cool.
BMono Black DevotionB
BB/w ControlW
Oh my bad xD. I sincerely apologize.
And yea. I agree with you.
EDIT: Typically against the mirror I -2 pack rat, -2 demon, +2 erebos god of the dead, +1 connections, +1 pithing needle
I don't like removing additional creatures/removal for duress. I'd much rather pack my board of threats and be proactive rather than reactive.
Your thoughts?
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
But by taking out specter for zombie, we free up valuable SB space. By moving zombies to the main, I get three more side board slots which could be used for whip and dark betrayal.
ATM I'm experimenting with moving the zombies to main in favor of +2 dark betrayal, +1 whip in the side.
What are your thoughts?
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Thanks to xeno for the sig and avvy!!!
Not worth it. It improves the GR matchup, but worsens Mono-U, Mono-B, Esper, aggro, and arguably RW Burn. In other words, everything except GR.
As for splashing, if I was to splash it would be for Dissolve, Voyage's End or Essence Scatter. Just my opinion.
The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
Thanks to xeno for the sig and avvy!!!
Someone mentioned valuable sideboard space...i agree with you to an extent. I say it that way because I am going to start splashing red for valuable tools against any orzhov deck. Once again, not that this is the only deck, but i do feel as though it does well in the mono black mirrorish matchups. Splashing red for mortars and slaughter games ONLY. We wont be running and MD red cards. Im hoping this can be sopported by running 4x temple of malice and 4x blood crypt. But push comes to shove...may i can add a poop guildgaet :-(. But anyway, i feel like our post board games against esper are pretty darn strong anyway with the addition of cards like duress. The decks that seems to give me the most trouble are the GR Domri shell decks...jund or gr which ever. Any MD advantage against these decks seems ok. Given more spots in the sb allows us to retool our removal packages to adapt to the changing meta.
One final note...at first I kind of felt like people were trying to be too cute by adding spalsh colors just because they could, but lately I can see doing so to narrow your strategies against certain decks. I feel like the core of this deck is so damn good anyway, that I am a little cautious about moving away from the mono black. I think splash options in the sb are fine, but the brutal consistantcy of MBD is why it remains the king of standard; to mess with such things could actually make this deck worse imo.
Thoughts and criticisms welcomed on my test 75.
4x Pack Rat
4x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4x Desecration Demon
4x Lifebane Zombie
Other Spells: 18
4x Underworld Connections
4x Thoughtseize
4x Bile Blight
1x Ultimate Price
4x Hero's Downfall
2x Devour Flesh
4x Blood Crypt
4x Temple of Malice
4x Mutavault
13x Swamp
Sidebord: 15
2x Dark Betrayal
2x Doom blade
1x Drown in Sorrow
3x Slaughter Games
3x Mizzium Mortars
1x Whip of Erebos
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
2x Pharika's Cure
Pretty stock MBD nothing really new to see here. Just added slaughter games and mortars to the board and slightly changed the mana.
Before you stick your nose up against Pharika's cure, keep in mind that RDW is everywhere too in my game. Pharika's cure can give us a needed tempo boost.
BUGShardless SultaiBUG
Modern
URSplinter TwinUR
BWGAbzan MidrangeBWG
Standard
URWJeskai TokensURW
Owen actually sided in zombies in the Mono-Blue matchup. And the new breed of Mono blue runs white for spheres and ephera.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
One potential problem with cure; however, is Boros Burn does not run alot of creatures. maybe 10-12. Maybe. If they draw no creatures (and only burn spells) its a dead card.
EDIT: If people play RDW its "ok". But if people in your play group transition to creature-light burn decks, it becomes far worse.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Temple of Deceit
Watery Grave x2
Mutavault
Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver (I value this card as a connections)
Thoughtseize
Gray Merchant
My initial thoughts was a little too high on the land count. But with one scry land and a thoughtseize, I decided it was worth the risk. Your thoughts?
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
That may be too risky atm with burn around. I was thinking drop the temple then thoughtseize turn 2.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
I'm a little confused. What does Blood Baron have to do with anything?
As for the splashes, I actually lose very little consistency. I essentially end up trading 2-4 life per game (but usually 2) from shocks and a couple black sources (at any given moment, I could be at either 18 or 19) for more raw power.
Splashing white is respectable. I myself have thought about that. However... I hesitate. Mostly because the BW version relies (typically) on blood baron instead of merchant for life gain. I don't like baron. It dies vs red... and jund is on the rise. But that is a personal preference. BW is still an amazing deck you can do well with.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Statistically running 3 colors is not more consistent than running one color. And if you are running 3 colors it makes your gray merchants worse. I don't know if splashing white is the answer. I also think that Krovax brings up the best point. The mono black deck is so consistent that it's hard to try and add different cards because it just doesn't make sense. It's so tight it's best to leave it alone. I'm still flip-flopping between zombie and specter. I honestly don't know which way to go. I beat a Gw deck tonight and took 6 cards with my nightveil. I could only cast his plains but that was 6 cards he did not have access to. An unanswered specter does a lot of work. Now on the complete opposite side the zombies would have been way better in that matchup. Still torn, still don't know which one I'm main decking.
Thanks to xeno for the sig and avvy!!!