Having problems with Boros Burn, it is running rampant on MODO and making my life miserable. Even when I side out connections and bring in Duress, just cannot seem to run them out of burn.
Orzhov players are dropping their white splash?? Them aren't they essentially playing mono black??
As a player of both decks, the W/B control deck is a lot less efficient than the monoB deck. I'm taking a break from baron right now because even though he's arguably at his best despite LBZ (DF being cut, monoB so prevalent), he is just too slow. You finally stick that massive 4/4 turn 6 (a mutavault open) and pass; monoB drops gary and wins the game. I really enjoy playing that deck, but its just so temperamental compared to MBD, which, conversely, is the most robust deck in the format.
Baron is still really good, at his best even. The problem for Orzhov decks is that things like Sin Collector, Obzedat, and Brimaz are legal targets for LBZ, and therefore are worse.
However, LBZ has been sided against the Orzhov deck since it was printed, and it's been a valid target for thoughtseize since the latter was printed.
I don't think LBZ is necessarily the primary factor that's causing Orzhov lists to decline, but then again, the deck I play has a whole lot less white in it than the super midrange-y strategies.
Removal is becoming an issue for me. I don't know what to do about it. With the decline of blood baron, we would need less devour flesh. Is 2 bile blight enough? What about this 4 downfall, 2 bb, 2 devor flesh, 2 ultimate price. Are we all against doom blade main??
I'm running LBZ over NVS. Way too much G/R and it's a stud there. Also actually thinking about reducing my Temple by 2,adding a nykthos and a Swamp to maybe speed up my board a little. I like Temple sometimes, but having access to some Mana every turn may be better? The temple coming in tapped has always felt slow, despite getting to plan next draw. Just wonder if it'd help against some of the faster Decks.
I'm running 2 Bile, 2 devour, 2 UP/DB (not sure which yet). I like having the 2/2/2 split so far, but concerned with choosing my removal based on local decks, since Cincy will be bigger than that. Non-black vs Mono-Colored, tough choice.
I have 3 threats in my meta - gw aggro, bg aggro-midrange (even the author's not sure what this build is, but it's pretty solid) and an esper control, against which i struggle the most.
Currently, im running this stock list, no changes made so far
4 pack rat
4 nvs
4 desdemon
4 grays
4 connections
4 downfall
4 duress (only because i don't have thoughtseizes right now)
4 bile blight
2 devour
26 lands
3 temple ub
1 temple br
22 swamps (mutavaults are the same)
Think im going to swap 2 nvs for lbz, so 2 nvs and 2 lvz int the maindeck - thats first thing to consider
What else i should to prevail this Gw\b decks and still not lose to control match-up in dirst game? (mostly to prevail Gw\b decks)
What about this 4 downfall, 2 bb, 2 devor flesh, 2 ultimate price. Are we all against doom blade main??
Doom Blade leaves you too vulnerable to large amount of very dangerous creatures, like t2 pack rat or nightveil, and thats only two top decks, tier2 decks have 4/5 gorgon, dreg mangler, so i wouldn't recommend playing doom blade game1. Yes, ultimate price does miss ruric thar or fleecemane lion, but it does kill fair amount of creatures in most decks, except for some dega midrange decks maybe. So, the most interesting thing for me is whether ro play 2 drown in sorrow main or not.
I've been testing this list. So far so good. Mind Rot somewhat improves my games against RW burn (this deck is just too good against midrange decks) and control. Never experienced any mana screws so far.
@Hydroool Your red splash seems pretty bad. You're basically splashing purely for removal quality, and sorcery-speed removal is inherently worse in our deck because of Pack Rat, so you're not even getting better removal. I like a splash in Mono-B to give us access to cards we wouldn't otherwise have. For example, you can splash blue for, among other things, Ashiok and Notion Thief, or you can splash white, which we've talked a lot about, or green for Abrupt Decay, Reaper of the Wilds, and sideboard cards, or even two colors (I'm splashing both blue and white in my list, for example). A red splash is even justifiable with Rakdos's Return or some other effect that we don't have without splashing.
The problem with Rakdos's Return is it is too slow for control. I'd rather have Slaughter Games on the side. I've considered green but we don't have a BG scry land yet. Gonna drop the dreadbores and go back to 2 Ultimate Price mainboard but I'm gonna keep the mortars as hits Blood Baron. Dropping 3 mind rots for 3 slaughter games on the side.
What about this 4 downfall, 2 bb, 2 devor flesh, 2 ultimate price. Are we all against doom blade main??
Doom Blade leaves you too vulnerable to large amount of very dangerous creatures, like t2 pack rat or nightveil, and thats only two top decks, tier2 decks have 4/5 gorgon, dreg mangler, so i wouldn't recommend playing doom blade game1. Yes, ultimate price does miss ruric thar or fleecemane lion, but it does kill fair amount of creatures in most decks, except for some dega midrange decks maybe. So, the most interesting thing for me is whether ro play 2 drown in sorrow main or not.
Of all the creatures you listed, Doom Blade kills more of them than Ultimate Price. It also kills Mutavault (ever heard of Sinkhole?) and every creature in G/R Monsters. Most of the black creatures in the format are handled by Bile Blight, either directly or as a combat trick. The larger B threats come out later, and thus are taken care of by Hero's Downfall.
Thanks. The fact that its not only the comparison of db and up, but the whole picture with blights - well, i missed it.
And besides, ultimate price does not kill nvs, my mistake.
Just a little bit of input on my red splash. Spent the entire day and a half testing on MTGO 2 man queues. won 19 matches out of 27 (70% winrate). Here's my partial match up analysis vs competitive decks
UW control (5-1) :
Slaughter Games is amazing against U/W control. I don't know if it's just luck but the 3 on my sideboard always showed up by turn 6 against azorius. Didn't even bother getting rid of their Revelations. Lost 1 match on game 3 because I was unable to remove a Jace onboard. I've always Kept my ultimate price and Lifebanes for Brimaz/Archangel (appeared only on 4 games out of 18)
SB : -4 Pack Rat , -2 Mizzium Mortars , -2 Bile Blight , +3 Duress , +1 Erebos, God of the Dead, +3 Slaughter Games , +1 Doom Blade
Orzhov (4-0) :
Mizzium Mortars is really good against a BBoV (can sometimes 2 for 1). I wish this card was instant.
SB : -2 Gray Merchant of Asphodel , -1 Lifebane Zombie , -1 Underworld Connections , -1 Pack Rat, +1 Erebos, God of the Dead , +2 Mizzium Mortars , +2 Dark Betrayal
I'm going to update my post later for mirror, RDW, RW burn and mono U. Only faced 2 G/R monsters so I can't say much about the match up. Hopefully I get to face more tomorrow as I intent to spend the entire day again on 2 mans. The next day, after some adjustments based on the data I had gathered I'm taking this list on all the scheduled standard dailies.
Ok I took down the FNM yesterday and there was another tournament today that I scrubbed out of. I have beaten mono blue with no problems for the past 2 months. I lost to mono blue in the 2nd and 3rd round today. Granted I made some bad misplays but I never thought I was in control in either match. Am I over analyzing the consistency on mono black or did I just screw it up today. Should I be testing the white splash? Or am I just getting ahead of myself?
Ok I took down the FNM yesterday and there was another tournament today that I scrubbed out of. I have beaten mono blue with no problems for the past 2 months. I lost to mono blue in the 2nd and 3rd round today. Granted I made some bad misplays but I never thought I was in control in either match. Am I over analyzing the consistency on mono black or did I just screw it up today. Should I be testing the white splash? Or am I just getting ahead of myself?
You're getting ahead of yourself. Losing a good matchup twice happens occasionally. Were they the versions splashing for D-Sphere and Ephara or just straight Mono-U?
No they were both mono blue, and I also made a couple critical play errors. The first match I left a bile blight on top of my library. He killed my specter, used his specter, took the bile blight and then cast it on my rats with his nykthos. He crushed my board and then won the game. Should we be playing a nykthos??
This is the deck I have been using the last 3 FNM's. I love the way it plays, but I feel I am playing wrong, meaning that I am putting down wrong cards after T3. Do I play the Demon or the God? What do I need to look for when playing? Is a T3 UC the correct play, or do I use some spot removal? One thing I do know is that is sorely lacking a sweeper. Mutilate would have made this deck insane.
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The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
@ Duxx - your ultimate play is discard to make a rat. Turn 4 is very situational. If it's an aggro deck you want to put the demon down. It's like having another removal spell. If the don't sac a guy, it's usually 6 damage, at its worst the are blocking with a smaller flier and you are getting rid if a guy anyway. In the control match up the Erebos is the choice. Play it more and it will come second nature to you.
@ soviet - the B/W deck seems to be making a surge as of late. It's better against monsters (lifebane main) and it's better against us (mono black) is that the direction we should be going ?
I really like the looks of the white black deck but I don't have the cards yet to test it. Has anyone had experience with it? What mus does it do worse in and what ones does it do better in? How many brimaz should be played or is bb better hands down.
Yes, exactly. They're apparently starting to switch over because of the emergence of Lifebane Zombie, which makes splashing for Blood Baron worse.
That makes the nightveil specter argument closed then. They have to stay in the main.
Thanks to xeno for the sig and avvy!!!
As a player of both decks, the W/B control deck is a lot less efficient than the monoB deck. I'm taking a break from baron right now because even though he's arguably at his best despite LBZ (DF being cut, monoB so prevalent), he is just too slow. You finally stick that massive 4/4 turn 6 (a mutavault open) and pass; monoB drops gary and wins the game. I really enjoy playing that deck, but its just so temperamental compared to MBD, which, conversely, is the most robust deck in the format.
BMono Black DevotionB
BB/w ControlW
Also in the event that I play against a baron deck, I'd rather mill him and drop him myself rather than simply handhate him away
BMono Black DevotionB
BB/w ControlW
I don't think LBZ is necessarily the primary factor that's causing Orzhov lists to decline, but then again, the deck I play has a whole lot less white in it than the super midrange-y strategies.
BMono Black DevotionB
BB/w ControlW
Thanks to xeno for the sig and avvy!!!
I'm running 2 Bile, 2 devour, 2 UP/DB (not sure which yet). I like having the 2/2/2 split so far, but concerned with choosing my removal based on local decks, since Cincy will be bigger than that. Non-black vs Mono-Colored, tough choice.
Currently, im running this stock list, no changes made so far
4 pack rat
4 nvs
4 desdemon
4 grays
4 connections
4 downfall
4 duress (only because i don't have thoughtseizes right now)
4 bile blight
2 devour
26 lands
3 temple ub
1 temple br
22 swamps (mutavaults are the same)
Think im going to swap 2 nvs for lbz, so 2 nvs and 2 lvz int the maindeck - thats first thing to consider
What else i should to prevail this Gw\b decks and still not lose to control match-up in dirst game? (mostly to prevail Gw\b decks)
Doom Blade leaves you too vulnerable to large amount of very dangerous creatures, like t2 pack rat or nightveil, and thats only two top decks, tier2 decks have 4/5 gorgon, dreg mangler, so i wouldn't recommend playing doom blade game1. Yes, ultimate price does miss ruric thar or fleecemane lion, but it does kill fair amount of creatures in most decks, except for some dega midrange decks maybe. So, the most interesting thing for me is whether ro play 2 drown in sorrow main or not.
Thanks to xeno for the sig and avvy!!!
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Bile Blight
2 Dreadbore
4 Hero's Downfall
3 Underworld Connections
4 Pack Rat
4 Lifebane Zombie
4 Desecration Demon
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
4 Blood Crypt
4 Mutavault
14 Swamp
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
2 Doom Blade
4 Duress
3 Mind Rot
2 Dark Betrayal
I wish we had Hymn to Tourach. Imagine T1 Thoughtseize, T2 Hymn and T3 Zombie/another Hymn
RR is arguably the best B/R spell in this block.
BMono Black DevotionB
BB/w ControlW
Of all the creatures you listed, Doom Blade kills more of them than Ultimate Price. It also kills Mutavault (ever heard of Sinkhole?) and every creature in G/R Monsters. Most of the black creatures in the format are handled by Bile Blight, either directly or as a combat trick. The larger B threats come out later, and thus are taken care of by Hero's Downfall.
And besides, ultimate price does not kill nvs, my mistake.
UW control (5-1) :
Slaughter Games is amazing against U/W control. I don't know if it's just luck but the 3 on my sideboard always showed up by turn 6 against azorius. Didn't even bother getting rid of their Revelations. Lost 1 match on game 3 because I was unable to remove a Jace onboard. I've always Kept my ultimate price and Lifebanes for Brimaz/Archangel (appeared only on 4 games out of 18)
SB : -4 Pack Rat , -2 Mizzium Mortars , -2 Bile Blight , +3 Duress , +1 Erebos, God of the Dead, +3 Slaughter Games , +1 Doom Blade
Orzhov (4-0) :
Mizzium Mortars is really good against a BBoV (can sometimes 2 for 1). I wish this card was instant.
SB : -2 Gray Merchant of Asphodel , -1 Lifebane Zombie , -1 Underworld Connections , -1 Pack Rat, +1 Erebos, God of the Dead , +2 Mizzium Mortars , +2 Dark Betrayal
I'm going to update my post later for mirror, RDW, RW burn and mono U. Only faced 2 G/R monsters so I can't say much about the match up. Hopefully I get to face more tomorrow as I intent to spend the entire day again on 2 mans. The next day, after some adjustments based on the data I had gathered I'm taking this list on all the scheduled standard dailies.
4 Lifebane Zombie
4 Desecration Demon
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
4 Thoughtseize
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Bile Blight
2 Ultimate Price
3 Underworld Connections
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Blood Crypt
4 Temple of Malice
14 Swamp
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Doom Blade
2 Devour Flesh
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
2 Dark Betrayal
3 Duress
Thanks to xeno for the sig and avvy!!!
You're getting ahead of yourself. Losing a good matchup twice happens occasionally. Were they the versions splashing for D-Sphere and Ephara or just straight Mono-U?
Thanks to xeno for the sig and avvy!!!
18 Swamp
4 Temple of Deceit
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
4 Desecration Demon
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Nightveil Specter
4 Pack Rat
4 Thoughtseize
4 Underworld Connections
4 Hero's Downfall
2 Doom Blade
2 Pharika's Cure
3 Devour Flesh
2 Doom Blade
3 Dark Betrayal
3 Duress
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Pithing Needle
This is the deck I have been using the last 3 FNM's. I love the way it plays, but I feel I am playing wrong, meaning that I am putting down wrong cards after T3. Do I play the Demon or the God? What do I need to look for when playing? Is a T3 UC the correct play, or do I use some spot removal? One thing I do know is that is sorely lacking a sweeper. Mutilate would have made this deck insane.
The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
@ soviet - the B/W deck seems to be making a surge as of late. It's better against monsters (lifebane main) and it's better against us (mono black) is that the direction we should be going ?
Thanks to xeno for the sig and avvy!!!