My version works similar to the MBC Odyssey era: board control, card advantage and big mana. Board Control in the form and removals and sweepers, card advatange with cyclers, mass discard and haunting echoes. Big mana comes from the superstar of the deck.
I tested it against Jund and Vampires and I must say, this deck slaughters them. Except for the occasional Bloodghasts which Sorin Markov can answer, Vampire decks are easy opponents. Siding in Ravenous Trap keeps Bloodghasts checked.
Against Jund, most of the time its a race but to your favor. Once the engine is online, you're unstoppable.
Midrange decks are also auto win since you are the control player here.
Only decks that gives the deck problems are Mill, RDW sligh and Luminous Ascencion- preboarding.
There is nothing you can do about Identity Crisis. There is no point thinking about how to avoid it, because you can't. Some things you just have to say: "Damn. That sucks."
One last thing to note, the BR version pretty much can't win against a well placed Ob Nixilis, the Fallen or Baneslayer Angel. It would either have to waste one of its X burn spells for 9, 6, or 5, depending on which threat, or just die to it very quickly. As a hint to all of you, those 2 are incredibly powerful and are quickly becoming the most common mid-range threat in the environment.
Congrats Mr. Troll. You managed to miss the entire point to be able to post answers for Identity Crisis. The problem was, I already mentioned Duress, Mind Shatter is unreliable for hitting Identity Crisis, and Thought Hemorrhage for it is a waste for a 2-3 sideboard card that might be barely in 50% of the control decks that can even play it in their sideboard.
With your second part, the only BR version that has been posted with Terminate was the one right before you posted. Convenient Mr. Troll? Now, it is good that you posted it anyway, since Terminate is a card that definitely deserves to be in the BR version, either through MD or SB. I was referring to the BR decks that were already on the forum when I made my post, and I should have been more clear on that. Now, with Fleshbag Marauder, it is a way to kill Baneslayer Angel and Ob Nixilis, the Fallen, but once again if you read my post you would see that I said "well placed" which could either mean having another creature out, or have already forced you to use your removal on earlier creatures, making it less likely to be able to use it.
So, next time you make a post, instead of just putting cards with a ? behind them, tell your reasons why behind it. It just shows that you only cared about selfishly proving somebody wrong, instead of caring enough to show why that person may or may not be wrong, which could result in people actually learning and getting some useful insight out of a post. So, please don't do that anymore, Mr. Troll, Aka: ThiS2Vi.
I was curious if most games are won off of hitting hitting 15~ creatures, and tapping non-Crypt of Agadeem lands, or hitting double crypt, or hitting double Banefire?
I actually like Sadistic Sacrament for this just because its ability to wipe out your opponents library with kicker if you cannot find a Consume Spirit yet. Maybe a two-of, MD? If anything else, it can give you a way to pluck out some MD cards that could disrupt your combo.
I actually like Sadistic Sacrament for this just because its ability to wipe out your opponents library with kicker if you cannot find a Consume Spirit yet. Maybe a two-of, MD? If anything else, it can give you a way to pluck out some MD cards that could disrupt your combo.
That would also be a great way to get rid of those pesky Mindbreak Traps.:)
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The problem with soul stair expedition is that it's only useful early game. It's a bomb when it hits early, but late game, i'd much rather be topdecking consume spirit, banefire, or more crypts.
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And you, too, are one of us, and yet you are not. In your words I hear anger, hatred. I see a darkness that is not cold and lifeless, but is alive and moving, like a living entity. I feel caged, trapped, a yearning for escape. --Death Gate Cycle Volume 3: Fire Sea
Does anyone have a detailed report to post, from an FNM or even testing results? Im really interested in what a typical hand looks like, how it plays out, what to keep. It looks funky but the potential seem sweet. Thanks
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Only spiderboy4 at High~Light could do it like this! Thanks spidey!
Congrats Mr. Troll. You managed to miss the entire point to be able to post answers for Identity Crisis. The problem was, I already mentioned Duress, Mind Shatter is unreliable for hitting Identity Crisis, and Thought Hemorrhage for it is a waste for a 2-3 sideboard card that might be barely in 50% of the control decks that can even play it in their sideboard.
With your second part, the only BR version that has been posted with Terminate was the one right before you posted. Convenient Mr. Troll? Now, it is good that you posted it anyway, since Terminate is a card that definitely deserves to be in the BR version, either through MD or SB. I was referring to the BR decks that were already on the forum when I made my post, and I should have been more clear on that. Now, with Fleshbag Marauder, it is a way to kill Baneslayer Angel and Ob Nixilis, the Fallen, but once again if you read my post you would see that I said "well placed" which could either mean having another creature out, or have already forced you to use your removal on earlier creatures, making it less likely to be able to use it.
So, next time you make a post, instead of just putting cards with a ? behind them, tell your reasons why behind it. It just shows that you only cared about selfishly proving somebody wrong, instead of caring enough to show why that person may or may not be wrong, which could result in people actually learning and getting some useful insight out of a post. So, please don't do that anymore, Mr. Troll, Aka: ThiS2Vi.
I don't know if i should be offended, but i am not.
I usually don't "troll" and that was not my intention, i apologize if you took it that way.
I actually like Sadistic Sacrament for this just because its ability to wipe out your opponents library with kicker if you cannot find a Consume Spirit yet. Maybe a two-of, MD? If anything else, it can give you a way to pluck out some MD cards that could disrupt your combo.
That a neat idea but usually you have to play it without the kicker, if you can use the kicker you allready have a lot of mana so it would be better to topdeck a finisher like 80% of the time. That is why i use Thought Hemorrhage over it in the SB.
Does anyone have a detailed report to post, from an FNM or even testing results? Im really interested in what a typical hand looks like, how it plays out, what to keep. It looks funky but the potential seem sweet. Thanks
I tested it a little yesterday and it won quite a bit. Lavaball Trap was very important, in a format without that much tokens and more "real creatures" the 4 dmg becomes very effective, plus, without vivid/pool destroying two lands can often color screw you opponent and put you in great tempo advantage. I usually felt safe keeping hands with only one land but 2 cyclers by 1 mana, almost every hand with two or more cyclers are keepable. In the other hand, keeping hands with 1 or none cyclers is very risky. Jund Sojouners was very important, it is a uncounterable Zap! which may not be broken but works very well here, it can kill little dudes (Bloodghast and Hexmage, for example) and put you 1 point closer which combined with Akoum Refuge may let you kill with a Earthquake.
The deck works pretty good, better than i expected to be honest. I think it have some potential to be Tier 2or even a little more if it doesn't face to much hate.
I don't know if i should be offended, but i am not.
I usually don't "troll" and that was not my intention, i apologize if you took it that way.
I wasn't meaning to offend you, I just hate posts not saying anything.
Also, I think a BU version of the deck might be possible, might even be better then a lot of the other versions. It fits very well into the end of turn style of the deck, as well as it gets Esper Sojourners, which is kind of ridiculous for untapping crypt or tapping one of their creatures to avoid damage while drawing a card. This version is just theory right now, not fine tuned.
Didn't bother with the lands, because its pretty much like the RB lands. It could probably use mass removal, but I wanted to test it with the EoT style, but I'm in a hurry right now.
Honestly, i've been doing some testing, and I think B/R is the way to go. Blue offers nothing in the way of sweepers, and in a technically creatureless deck, this hurts pretty bad. White's sweeper is more expensive, and it offers nothing in the way of to-the-dome damage. With red, you can keep the board under control with sweepers, have direct damage when necessary, and have access to more win conditions in earthquake and Banefire, especially the latter vs control.
If you are hellbent on attempting a B/U version though, mrofni, your list needs fleshbag. Its a 3 mana removal that fills your grave. Something blue lacks.
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And you, too, are one of us, and yet you are not. In your words I hear anger, hatred. I see a darkness that is not cold and lifeless, but is alive and moving, like a living entity. I feel caged, trapped, a yearning for escape. --Death Gate Cycle Volume 3: Fire Sea
Honestly, i've been doing some testing, and I think B/R is the way to go. Blue offers nothing in the way of sweepers, and in a technically creatureless deck, this hurts pretty bad. White's sweeper is more expensive, and it offers nothing in the way of to-the-dome damage. With red, you can keep the board under control with sweepers, have direct damage when necessary, and have access to more win conditions in earthquake and Banefire, especially the latter vs control.
If you are hellbent on attempting a B/U version though, mrofni, your list needs fleshbag. Its a 3 mana removal that fills your grave. Something blue lacks.
I am with you, this deck is born to be BR and this is the colors it will do better IMHO.
Can someone let me know how fast this deck is? I want to know how quickly you can generate lots of mana, and how consistent this kind of mana generation is, and how you win.
Please. Even some goldfishes would be fine. Just show me something.
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"That's the funny thing about free will. You don't feel any different without it."
EDH: RWU Zedruu, the Greathearted BUG Damia, Sage of Stone
I really like this deck, i proxied it up and played it against my warp world build, but it kept coming short on damage before it lost, any ideas on making the win condition more consistent/solid?
And how about Liliana Vess as an alternate wincon? Cycle all your guys, kill all of his, and bring everything back.
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"In that case, I should probably mention I filled our luggage with orphan meat."
"What?"
"Well, I'm building a Meat Dragon and not just any meat will do."
Awesome sig by Kracked Graphics
Currently Playing
T2: G Elves!
Extended: BGW Doran BRG Jund
Legacy: BG Eva Green
not quite a crypt deck, more like MBC with crypt. Interesting though...
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"In that case, I should probably mention I filled our luggage with orphan meat."
"What?"
"Well, I'm building a Meat Dragon and not just any meat will do."
Awesome sig by Kracked Graphics
Currently Playing
T2: G Elves!
Extended: BGW Doran BRG Jund
Legacy: BG Eva Green
ya i tried the more combo versions and i just found relying on 1 or 2 win cons is week. My control version benefits from crypt in 2 ways: it can occasionally combo out and totally surprise control, or the cycling + crypt acts as a good way to excel your mana while thining the deck. also i have found myself able to win the occasional game with sorin, ob nixilis, liliana's ultimate, and even beating them down and doing like 5 with a consume spirit.
Also im not sure how strong this card is for the more comboish decks but grim discovery is a card that has me thinking whether i should squeeze 2 in my deck or not.
Trying to keep mine mono black. Playtested tonight on MWS for like 3 hours and had a BLAST! Even if it never gets super competitive, I'll enjoy doing FNM's with it. I'm running mono black for what will be obvious reasons:
Since this decklist, i've done a fair amount of testing. I've noticed, that to make this really, really work, more than one crypt is key. Expedition map seems jank, but getting yourself that extra crypt is crazy important.
Main deck, i've added another banefire and two terminates, i've noticed that lately, there's always one big creature that survives the sweepers, and I never seem to have enough removal. Because of this, I blow a consume spirit to stay alive, and end up without a win con as well. The extra banefire eased up on that. The terminates are only a 2-of, essentially just to take care of the big stuff, like a stray baneslayer.
I removed a fleshbag, as 3 mana seemed to be quite a bit to fill a grave and not get precision removal, and i've removed a land, because I got flooded far too many times.
For the sideboard, it got major work done. Duress remains as a card vs mindbreak trap. Slave of bolas was put in as per suggestion by another poster in this thread, and it's worked wonders against critters for me. Baneslayer much? Yes. More bnefires for counter-heavy decks. Soul Stair Expedition made it sideboard for me, against decks with heavy discard. It gave me a nice little weapon to make their discard not nearly as effective. Take that, blightning. And the singleton thought hemmhorage is just there in the event of time sieve.
This deck has done wonders for me, and i'm absolutely convinced Black/Red is the proper choice of colour.
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And you, too, are one of us, and yet you are not. In your words I hear anger, hatred. I see a darkness that is not cold and lifeless, but is alive and moving, like a living entity. I feel caged, trapped, a yearning for escape. --Death Gate Cycle Volume 3: Fire Sea
you can use sadistic sacrament and needlebite trap as an alternative wining condition with the addition of consume spirit ofcourse and go the deck in a mono black version..i think 2 sorin markov is another good addition so here is a quick list i made and testing it.
Can I get any thoughts on my decklist from post #77?
I think Gatekeeper of Malakir buys you more than Disfigure does. Remove one, chump block another, put a body in the graveyard. I would also consider more win-cons -- maybe Sadistic Sacrement and/or Haunting Echoes if you're not wanting to splash outside of black.
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MBC 2009
17 Swamp
3 Crypt of Agadeem
2 Mountain
Creatures
4 Ingneous Pouncer
4 Viscera Dragger
4 Monstrous Carabid
3 Fleshbag Marauder
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Tendrils of Corruption
4 Terminate
4 Infest
2 Diabolic Tutor
2 Mind Sludge
2 Consume Spirit
1 Haunting Echoes
1 Liliana Vess
1 Sorin Markov
4 Duress
1 Mind Sludge
1 Consume Spirit
2 Pithing Needle
1 Banefire
1 Earthquake
2 Ravenous Trap
2 Sadistic Sacrament
1 Haunting Echoes
My version works similar to the MBC Odyssey era: board control, card advantage and big mana. Board Control in the form and removals and sweepers, card advatange with cyclers, mass discard and haunting echoes. Big mana comes from the superstar of the deck.
I tested it against Jund and Vampires and I must say, this deck slaughters them. Except for the occasional Bloodghasts which Sorin Markov can answer, Vampire decks are easy opponents. Siding in Ravenous Trap keeps Bloodghasts checked.
Against Jund, most of the time its a race but to your favor. Once the engine is online, you're unstoppable.
Midrange decks are also auto win since you are the control player here.
Only decks that gives the deck problems are Mill, RDW sligh and Luminous Ascencion- preboarding.
Duress, Mind Shatter, Thought Hemorrhage?
Terminate, Fleshbag Marauder?
With your second part, the only BR version that has been posted with Terminate was the one right before you posted. Convenient Mr. Troll? Now, it is good that you posted it anyway, since Terminate is a card that definitely deserves to be in the BR version, either through MD or SB. I was referring to the BR decks that were already on the forum when I made my post, and I should have been more clear on that. Now, with Fleshbag Marauder, it is a way to kill Baneslayer Angel and Ob Nixilis, the Fallen, but once again if you read my post you would see that I said "well placed" which could either mean having another creature out, or have already forced you to use your removal on earlier creatures, making it less likely to be able to use it.
So, next time you make a post, instead of just putting cards with a ? behind them, tell your reasons why behind it. It just shows that you only cared about selfishly proving somebody wrong, instead of caring enough to show why that person may or may not be wrong, which could result in people actually learning and getting some useful insight out of a post. So, please don't do that anymore, Mr. Troll, Aka: ThiS2Vi.
My Trade Thread
That would also be a great way to get rid of those pesky Mindbreak Traps.:)
RPurphoros' AnvilR
UGEdric DredgeGU
XKarn, Silver Golem- Arte FactumX
WUBRGSliver Queen PlaneswalkersGRBUW
WBObzedat the Ghost DadBW
RUGMaelstrom Wanderer Good StuffGUR
--French 1v1 EDH--
WUGeistWU
--Pauper EDH--
WRBlaze CommandoWR
Only spiderboy4 at High~Light could do it like this! Thanks spidey!
I don't know if i should be offended, but i am not.
I usually don't "troll" and that was not my intention, i apologize if you took it that way.
That a neat idea but usually you have to play it without the kicker, if you can use the kicker you allready have a lot of mana so it would be better to topdeck a finisher like 80% of the time. That is why i use Thought Hemorrhage over it in the SB.
I tested it a little yesterday and it won quite a bit. Lavaball Trap was very important, in a format without that much tokens and more "real creatures" the 4 dmg becomes very effective, plus, without vivid/pool destroying two lands can often color screw you opponent and put you in great tempo advantage. I usually felt safe keeping hands with only one land but 2 cyclers by 1 mana, almost every hand with two or more cyclers are keepable. In the other hand, keeping hands with 1 or none cyclers is very risky. Jund Sojouners was very important, it is a uncounterable Zap! which may not be broken but works very well here, it can kill little dudes (Bloodghast and Hexmage, for example) and put you 1 point closer which combined with Akoum Refuge may let you kill with a Earthquake.
The deck works pretty good, better than i expected to be honest. I think it have some potential to be Tier 2or even a little more if it doesn't face to much hate.
I wasn't meaning to offend you, I just hate posts not saying anything.
Also, I think a BU version of the deck might be possible, might even be better then a lot of the other versions. It fits very well into the end of turn style of the deck, as well as it gets Esper Sojourners, which is kind of ridiculous for untapping crypt or tapping one of their creatures to avoid damage while drawing a card. This version is just theory right now, not fine tuned.
4 Monstrous Carabid
4 Viscera Dragger
4 Jhessian Zombies
4 Esper Sojourners
4 Doom Blade
4 Soul Manipulation
4 Consume Spirit
2 Mind Spring
Didn't bother with the lands, because its pretty much like the RB lands. It could probably use mass removal, but I wanted to test it with the EoT style, but I'm in a hurry right now.
If you are hellbent on attempting a B/U version though, mrofni, your list needs fleshbag. Its a 3 mana removal that fills your grave. Something blue lacks.
I am with you, this deck is born to be BR and this is the colors it will do better IMHO.
Please. Even some goldfishes would be fine. Just show me something.
EDH:
RWU Zedruu, the Greathearted
BUG Damia, Sage of Stone
Legacy: Ichorid
And how about Liliana Vess as an alternate wincon? Cycle all your guys, kill all of his, and bring everything back.
"What?"
"Well, I'm building a Meat Dragon and not just any meat will do."
Awesome sig by Kracked Graphics
Currently Playing
T2:
G Elves!
Extended:
BGW Doran
BRG Jund
Legacy:
BG Eva Green
Land 19
2 terramorphic expanse
4 Crypt of agadeem
9 Swamps
4 verdant catacombs
Creatures 20
4 gatekeeper of malakir
4 architects of will
4 monstrous carabid
2 ob nixilis, the fallen
4 viscera dragger
2 fleshbag marauder
Other 21
3 Sorin markov
3 disfigure
4 sign in blood
3 consume spirit
4 tendrils of corruption
2 liliana vess
2 mind shatter
Sideboard 15
3 Doom blade
4 infest
4 duress
3 haunting echoes
1 mind sludge
not quite a crypt deck, more like MBC with crypt. Interesting though...
"What?"
"Well, I'm building a Meat Dragon and not just any meat will do."
Awesome sig by Kracked Graphics
Currently Playing
T2:
G Elves!
Extended:
BGW Doran
BRG Jund
Legacy:
BG Eva Green
Also im not sure how strong this card is for the more comboish decks but grim discovery is a card that has me thinking whether i should squeeze 2 in my deck or not.
4 igneous pouncer
4 architects of will
4 fleshbag marauder
4 monstrous carabid
4 disfigure
3 consume spirit
4 tendrils of corruption
2 sorin markov
16 swamp
2 marsh flats
4 crypt of agadeem
2 verdant catacombs
4 infest
4 duress
3 mind sludge
4 vampire hexmage
I absolutely LOVE this deck! My only scare is Consume, Liliana ultimate and Sorin as the only win cons.
Since this decklist, i've done a fair amount of testing. I've noticed, that to make this really, really work, more than one crypt is key. Expedition map seems jank, but getting yourself that extra crypt is crazy important.
I've since undergone a few small changes.
Here's the new list:
4 Crypt of Agadeem
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Akoum Refuge
5 Swamp
3 Mountain
Cyclers/Grave Fillers - 21
4 Architects of Will
3 Fleshbag Marauder
4 Viscera Dragger
4 Monstrous Carabid
3 Igneous Pouncer
3 Jund Sojourners
3 Expedition Map
Removal - 11
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Pyroclasm
2 Earthquake
2 Terminate
Win Condition - 5
4 Consume Spirit
1 Banefire
4 Duress
3 Slave of Bolas
3 Banefire
4 Soul Stair Expedition
1 Thought Hemorrhage
Main deck, i've added another banefire and two terminates, i've noticed that lately, there's always one big creature that survives the sweepers, and I never seem to have enough removal. Because of this, I blow a consume spirit to stay alive, and end up without a win con as well. The extra banefire eased up on that. The terminates are only a 2-of, essentially just to take care of the big stuff, like a stray baneslayer.
I removed a fleshbag, as 3 mana seemed to be quite a bit to fill a grave and not get precision removal, and i've removed a land, because I got flooded far too many times.
For the sideboard, it got major work done. Duress remains as a card vs mindbreak trap. Slave of bolas was put in as per suggestion by another poster in this thread, and it's worked wonders against critters for me. Baneslayer much? Yes. More bnefires for counter-heavy decks. Soul Stair Expedition made it sideboard for me, against decks with heavy discard. It gave me a nice little weapon to make their discard not nearly as effective. Take that, blightning. And the singleton thought hemmhorage is just there in the event of time sieve.
This deck has done wonders for me, and i'm absolutely convinced Black/Red is the proper choice of colour.
4 monstrous carabid
4 viscera dragger
4 fleshbag marauder
2 grixis sojourners
4 disfigure
4 duress
4 tendrills of corruption
3 needlebite trap
3 consume spirit
20 swamp
now if you want..you can add sorin markov instead of needlebite trap the deck seems promising enough
I think Gatekeeper of Malakir buys you more than Disfigure does. Remove one, chump block another, put a body in the graveyard. I would also consider more win-cons -- maybe Sadistic Sacrement and/or Haunting Echoes if you're not wanting to splash outside of black.