Hmm looks interesting. Not really a soldier deck because you have very little soldier synergy in here. I am not really sure on how you plan on winning with this deck. You have 9 pieces of removal, 3 fog effects. You have some of the low cost soldiers but with no way to cheat in captain of the watch I am not sure how veteran armorsmith really helps you. This deck seems to just want to stall until you can get baneslayer angel out which seems like a bad idea because if they just path baneslayer you have no other way to win besides maybe get a captain of the watch out, which without other key soldiers she is easily dealt with.
So I am curious as to how you see certain matchups playing out. Basically if you could explain what the deck trys to do to win that would be great.
Hmm looks interesting. Not really a soldier deck because you have very little soldier synergy in here. I am not really sure on how you plan on winning with this deck. You have 9 pieces of removal, 3 fog effects. You have some of the low cost soldiers but with no way to cheat in captain of the watch I am not sure how veteran armorsmith really helps you. This deck seems to just want to stall until you can get baneslayer angel out which seems like a bad idea because if they just path baneslayer you have no other way to win besides maybe get a captain of the watch out, which without other key soldiers she is easily dealt with.
So I am curious as to how you see certain matchups playing out. Basically if you could explain what the deck trys to do to win that would be great.
Seeing as how I am only running 1 non-soldier creature out of 17 total, I would still consider it soldier tribal. But I can see your point in the sense that this build on paper doesn't seem to race aggressive decks well or deal with removal-heavy opponents. But through testing against a few decks, I've had surprising results; I've gone about 50-50 against kithkin/aggressive WW, with the Veteran Armorsmith stopping Knight of Meadowgrain in his tracks, as well as my removal suite dealing with the smaller creatures, with Oblivion Ring handling Honor of the Pure and Ajani Goldmane. Against control decks, I've managed to race them despite the lack of the Preeminent Captain synergy, having enough toughness pumps to handle sweepers and enough small creatures to push through spot removal and chump blockers.
Truth be told, the Baneslayer Angel was a fourth Captain of the Watch, but I thought it would be a surprising addition / decent filler that would better balance out my curve. She can end games, or draw spot removal away from a next-turn Captain of the Watch. Either way, she's a great card, but in-order to remain soldier-themed, I'm only using her as a one-of.
Prior to Safe Passage, I was actually main-decking 2 Martial Coup and an additional land, but I found that to be too slow and control-ish for this style of deck, so I took them out and compromised for a more mid-range build. I've had this card be more removal than fog against other WW decks by preventing damage done by first-strikers and countering them with my own pumped creatures.
The Armorsmith really shines against red sweepers and burn, especially in conjunction with Honor. Even if he didn't have the toughness buff, I believe that he is solid enough of a creature to warrant playing in a soldier tribal deck because of his impressive power/toughness combination, which is enough to withstand other smaller creature while dealing enough damage himself to remove them.
Win-conditions in the games I've played have been early-game rush with Honor of the Pure and Ajani pushing me through, and late game bombs using Baneslayer, Captain, and Elspeth to get the final points of damage done. I feel that I can drop enough threats, because through all the pumps, every small creature is one that must be removed, or else my opponent is going to take a beating. Basically I'm not going for an instant win within the first 4-5 turns, but just a win overall.
Here's a play I've recently had against aggressive R/G ramp that was dropping turn 3 Siege-Gang Commanders:
T3: Land, Armorsmith, Akrasan Squire, swing for 4, opp. at 13
Opp: Land, Siege-Gang
T4: Land, Armorsmith, swing in with two 3/4s, and a 2/4.
In an ideal situation, that T4 drop would have been an Ajani, but as you can see, by then I have a nice board position with decent to high toughness creature who can withstand burn or sweepers. Against WW, I would be trading removal with them (Harm's Way, Paths) while having blockers who can survive and destroy.
Maybe it's just a combination of good draws for me, and bad draws for my opponents (with them playing mediocre decks), but I've found this to be a balanced build, albeit not the fastest.
I hope this has defended my build a little, but in the end I would have gone with the Preeminent synergy, but there isn't a shop located near where I live and I would like to prepare for the rotation, leaving room for whatever ZEN may bring.
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'The unexamined life is not worth living, man.' Demetri Martin quoting Socrates
I am in a bit of a hassle. I only have money for buying a playset of Knight of the White Orchid (not a Soldier but offers acceleration for CotW) or buying 3 (or 2) Path to Exile(4 would be optimal but my spare money isn't enough). Which should I get?
My deck doesn't run LOR cards (I'm not buying cards that are T2 legal for 2 months), but runs 4 Harm's Way and 4 Oblivion Ring as removal for now.
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Thanks to DarkNightCavalier & Magus of the Sheep from Scuttlemutt Productions for the cool signature and avatar.
I am in a bit of a hassle. I only have money for buying a playset of Knight of the White Orchid (not a Soldier but offers acceleration for CotW) or buying 3 (or 2) Path to Exile(4 would be optimal but my spare money isn't enough). Which should I get?
My deck doesn't run LOR cards (I'm not buying cards that are T2 legal for 2 months), but runs 4 Harm's Way and 4 Oblivion Ring as removal for now.
I'm with you on the LOR rotation.
Anyways, I would go with 3 Paths if possible. Not only is it removal, but it can be mana acceleration into CotW as well, if you respond to your opponents removal by pathing your own creature.
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I just found a shop where they were selling the morningtide soldier deck for 5$. Needless to say I bought 4 (4 Larks/4 preeminent). Should we run Lark in this deck? like 1 or 2?
Honestly, im leaning towards the black or blue splash for soldiers post rotation. Bolt is nice, but that's all it is. Not including zendikar, i don't see any other cards it would be worth splashing for. Black has Zealous Persecution, Duress and deathmark. Blue has sleep, meddling mage if combo gets better, and maybe a good draw spell, i hope.....
I don't know if your talking main or sideboard, but kithkin and combo elves are the only two decks you should be playing defensive against....
Those are the only two decks I play defensively against. I was talking SB and it really didn't work out. Helped the kithkin MU but weakened all other MUs by too much for my taste.
I play reveillark. Just one. Useful post wipe and can bring in more things that Ranger of Eos.
Hey guys, been following this deck for a while now and testing different stuff. Decided to keep it post Lor for now. The one card I can't really agree on is Ranger of Eos, as I find him not as useful for whatever reason in the games I've played. Cards I'm using at the ones I have or else I'd add in two more Planeswalker (probably one of each). SB I'm thinking Martial Coup but not sure what else I'd need.
I think everything is pretty straight forward. Might be too much removal but if I can get my hands on more PW I'll replace them with it. 20 lands seem to work for me even though everyone seems to recommend more.
I just found a shop where they were selling the morningtide soldier deck for 5$. Needless to say I bought 4 (4 Larks/4 preeminent). Should we run Lark in this deck? like 1 or 2?
I ran two sideboard last week at FNM, and didn't side them in once. Probably worth siding in if you are playing against control, that will pulse your stuff, otherwise, probably not needed.
I just found a shop where they were selling the morningtide soldier deck for 5$. Needless to say I bought 4 (4 Larks/4 preeminent). Should we run Lark in this deck? like 1 or 2?
I run 1 MD. You could run 2, I am not sure it would really matter. It can come in handy but you def don't want one every game and def don't want it in your starting hand. It is sort of one of those things that when late in the game and it isn't looking good for you and you top deck Lark you start to smile, because you have so many options then. Now you can play him and either block your opponents attack have lark die and you get 2 guys out, like preeminent captain. Or you get 4 dmg in a turn threw the air. The best part is, is that there is no way to actually deal with revilark. Because it's effect says that when it leaves play once you get it into play you are guaranteed to get its effect if you opponent does anything to it, bar pacifism or crystalization etc, but no one plays those.
I run 1 MD. You could run 2, I am not sure it would really matter. It can come in handy but you def don't want one every game and def don't want it in your starting hand. It is sort of one of those things that when late in the game and it isn't looking good for you and you top deck Lark you start to smile, because you have so many options then. Now you can play him and either block your opponents attack have lark die and you get 2 guys out, like preeminent captain. Or you get 4 dmg in a turn threw the air. The best part is, is that there is no way to actually deal with revilark. Because it's effect says that when it leaves play once you get it into play you are guaranteed to get its effect if you opponent does anything to it, bar pacifism or crystalization etc, but no one plays those.
Slave of Bolas ruins it too, because I believe since they were the last controller, your opponent gets to return creatures.
Slave of Bolas ruins it too, because I believe since they were the last controller, your opponent gets to return creatures.
I could be wrong because I am not a judge. But I believe the effect only is given to the owner of the card. Your opponent only takes control of the creature but ownership is never changed. So I believe you would still be able to get the effect for yourself even though your opponent "controls" Lark because you still "own" it.
I could be wrong because I am not a judge. But I believe the effect only is given to the owner of the card. Your opponent only takes control of the creature but ownership is never changed. So I believe you would still be able to get the effect for yourself even though your opponent "controls" Lark because you still "own" it.
It checks who CONTROLS lark, not who owns it. Since the opponent has control of lark when it is sac'd he controls the trigger, and gets to put creatures back in play.
4/1/2008: If a creature spell played with evoke changes controllers before it comes into play, it will still be sacrificed when it comes into play. Similarly, if a creature played with evoke changes controllers after it comes into play but before its sacrifice ability resolves, it will still be sacrificed. In both cases, the controller of the creature at the time it left play will control its leaves-play ability.
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Here's the deck I've been running, I assume it's very similar to most things posted in this thread, but I haven't looked over anything but the first page.
No sideboard yet, but basically it steamrolls over everything but TurboFog that gets setup. I don't like Militia's Pride but I had a spot open and couldn't think of anything else (besides another path). Thoughts?
Another path or Harm's way would be of more use than a milita's pride IMO. Otherwise I personaly really like goldmane in this deck (and I think that most will agree with me), so adding him would be good.
My brother went to our local shop and traded some stuff to update my deck (including a pair of Preeminent Captains, which I WOULDN'T have bought due to Fall's rotation, but trades are ok). Here is my deck:
So I am curious as to how you see certain matchups playing out. Basically if you could explain what the deck trys to do to win that would be great.
Splash red for Magma Phoenix and fae cries.
GR Shamans
B Vampires
UG Ninjas
GR Shamans
B Vampires
UG Ninjas
Type 2: UBControlBW
Extended: UWBGControlGBWU
Legacy:UWRGContolUWRG
Vintage: UWG Poorman Aggro UWG
Seeing as how I am only running 1 non-soldier creature out of 17 total, I would still consider it soldier tribal. But I can see your point in the sense that this build on paper doesn't seem to race aggressive decks well or deal with removal-heavy opponents. But through testing against a few decks, I've had surprising results; I've gone about 50-50 against kithkin/aggressive WW, with the Veteran Armorsmith stopping Knight of Meadowgrain in his tracks, as well as my removal suite dealing with the smaller creatures, with Oblivion Ring handling Honor of the Pure and Ajani Goldmane. Against control decks, I've managed to race them despite the lack of the Preeminent Captain synergy, having enough toughness pumps to handle sweepers and enough small creatures to push through spot removal and chump blockers.
Truth be told, the Baneslayer Angel was a fourth Captain of the Watch, but I thought it would be a surprising addition / decent filler that would better balance out my curve. She can end games, or draw spot removal away from a next-turn Captain of the Watch. Either way, she's a great card, but in-order to remain soldier-themed, I'm only using her as a one-of.
Prior to Safe Passage, I was actually main-decking 2 Martial Coup and an additional land, but I found that to be too slow and control-ish for this style of deck, so I took them out and compromised for a more mid-range build. I've had this card be more removal than fog against other WW decks by preventing damage done by first-strikers and countering them with my own pumped creatures.
The Armorsmith really shines against red sweepers and burn, especially in conjunction with Honor. Even if he didn't have the toughness buff, I believe that he is solid enough of a creature to warrant playing in a soldier tribal deck because of his impressive power/toughness combination, which is enough to withstand other smaller creature while dealing enough damage himself to remove them.
Win-conditions in the games I've played have been early-game rush with Honor of the Pure and Ajani pushing me through, and late game bombs using Baneslayer, Captain, and Elspeth to get the final points of damage done. I feel that I can drop enough threats, because through all the pumps, every small creature is one that must be removed, or else my opponent is going to take a beating. Basically I'm not going for an instant win within the first 4-5 turns, but just a win overall.
Here's a play I've recently had against aggressive R/G ramp that was dropping turn 3 Siege-Gang Commanders:
T1: Land, Elite Vanguard
Opp: Land, Birds of Paradise
T2: Land, Honor, swing for 3, opp. at 17
Opp: Land, Fertile Ground, Trace of Abundance
T3: Land, Armorsmith, Akrasan Squire, swing for 4, opp. at 13
Opp: Land, Siege-Gang
T4: Land, Armorsmith, swing in with two 3/4s, and a 2/4.
In an ideal situation, that T4 drop would have been an Ajani, but as you can see, by then I have a nice board position with decent to high toughness creature who can withstand burn or sweepers. Against WW, I would be trading removal with them (Harm's Way, Paths) while having blockers who can survive and destroy.
Maybe it's just a combination of good draws for me, and bad draws for my opponents (with them playing mediocre decks), but I've found this to be a balanced build, albeit not the fastest.
I hope this has defended my build a little, but in the end I would have gone with the Preeminent synergy, but there isn't a shop located near where I live and I would like to prepare for the rotation, leaving room for whatever ZEN may bring.
Current Decklists:
WUB Back to the Future WUB
My Trade List:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=168449&highlight=cwithero
My deck doesn't run LOR cards (I'm not buying cards that are T2 legal for 2 months), but runs 4 Harm's Way and 4 Oblivion Ring as removal for now.
Thanks to DarkNightCavalier & Magus of the Sheep from Scuttlemutt Productions for the cool signature and avatar.
-Playing-
I got Soul, but I'm not a Soldier...oh wait [Mono White Soldiers]
I'm with you on the LOR rotation.
Anyways, I would go with 3 Paths if possible. Not only is it removal, but it can be mana acceleration into CotW as well, if you respond to your opponents removal by pathing your own creature.
Current Decklists:
WUB Back to the Future WUB
My Trade List:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=168449&highlight=cwithero
noo!! i don't want to be countered!! or do i?
@WTF_PWN: i suggest buying path to exile, because at least some are necessary, i run 2 MD and they work fine for me.
as for LOR/SHA rotations, i already have my deck with LOR cards, so i'm gonna take advantage of them until they cycle out.
Those are the only two decks I play defensively against. I was talking SB and it really didn't work out. Helped the kithkin MU but weakened all other MUs by too much for my taste.
I play reveillark. Just one. Useful post wipe and can bring in more things that Ranger of Eos.
I'm going to work on the... blue splash.
Modern Naya Zoo
I think everything is pretty straight forward. Might be too much removal but if I can get my hands on more PW I'll replace them with it. 20 lands seem to work for me even though everyone seems to recommend more.
3 Captain of the Watch
4 Elite Vanguard
4 Akrasan Squire
4 Veteran Armorsmith
3 Rhox Pikemaster
4 Honor of the Pure
4 Path to Exile
4 Oblivion Ring
4 Righteousness
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Ajani Goldmane
20x Plains
I ran two sideboard last week at FNM, and didn't side them in once. Probably worth siding in if you are playing against control, that will pulse your stuff, otherwise, probably not needed.
I run 1 MD. You could run 2, I am not sure it would really matter. It can come in handy but you def don't want one every game and def don't want it in your starting hand. It is sort of one of those things that when late in the game and it isn't looking good for you and you top deck Lark you start to smile, because you have so many options then. Now you can play him and either block your opponents attack have lark die and you get 2 guys out, like preeminent captain. Or you get 4 dmg in a turn threw the air. The best part is, is that there is no way to actually deal with revilark. Because it's effect says that when it leaves play once you get it into play you are guaranteed to get its effect if you opponent does anything to it, bar pacifism or crystalization etc, but no one plays those.
Slave of Bolas ruins it too, because I believe since they were the last controller, your opponent gets to return creatures.
2. Who plays slave of bolas?
The top 5cc player at my FNM every week.
I could be wrong because I am not a judge. But I believe the effect only is given to the owner of the card. Your opponent only takes control of the creature but ownership is never changed. So I believe you would still be able to get the effect for yourself even though your opponent "controls" Lark because you still "own" it.
It checks who CONTROLS lark, not who owns it. Since the opponent has control of lark when it is sac'd he controls the trigger, and gets to put creatures back in play.
Thanks to DarkNightCavalier & Magus of the Sheep from Scuttlemutt Productions for the cool signature and avatar.
-Playing-
I got Soul, but I'm not a Soldier...oh wait [Mono White Soldiers]
4 Elite Vanguard
4 Veteran Armorsmith
4 Preeminent Captain
3 Hearthfire Hobgoblin
3 Rhox Pikemaster
4 Captain of the Watch
2 Elspeth, Knight Errant
Spells: 14
3 Harms Way
2 Path to Exile
1 Militia's Pride
4 Honor of the Pure
4 Spectral Procession
16 Plains
2 Mutavault
4 Windbrisk Heights
No sideboard yet, but basically it steamrolls over everything but TurboFog that gets setup. I don't like Militia's Pride but I had a spot open and couldn't think of anything else (besides another path). Thoughts?
I have not had the chance to playtest it yet.
It seems like a solid build to me.
Any comments are welcome!
4x Veteran Armorsmith
4x Preeminent Captain
4x Captain of the Watch
2x Ranger of Eos
1x Burrenton Forge-Tender
4x Spectral Procession
4x Path to Exile
4x Harm's Way
3x Ajani Goldmane
18x Plains
4x Windbrisk Heights
4x Ethersworn Canonist
4x Oblivion Ring
3x Burrenton Forge-Tender
2x Martial Coup
2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Through the darkness of futures past,
The Magician longs to see,
One chants out between two worlds,
Fire walk with me.
22 Plains
Creatures
4 Akrasan Squire
4 Elite Vanguard
4 Veteran Armorsmith
4 Knight of the White Orchid
2 Preeminent Captain
4 Ranger of Eos
3 Captain of the Watch
4 Harm's Way
4 Oblivion Ring
3 Honor of the Pure
2 Martial Coup
4 White Knight
2 Celestial Purge
1 Captain of the Watch
3 Rhox Pikemaster
4 Soul Warden [for mirror/heavy aggro matchup]
1 [Free Slot]
I got a Path to Exile but saving it until I get more.
Knight of the White Orchid has done well, helping accelerate to early hard-casted Captain of the Watchs.
Thanks to DarkNightCavalier & Magus of the Sheep from Scuttlemutt Productions for the cool signature and avatar.
-Playing-
I got Soul, but I'm not a Soldier...oh wait [Mono White Soldiers]