MTG Salvation

This thread is to discuss the Five-Color Control archetype in Standard. Here is a sample list from the Star City 5k:



This deck plays like a traditional control deck that utilizes all five colors to play the format's best spells. Many lists opt to use Cruel Ultimatum as a win condition that can be recurred with Nucklavee.

Keep all posts on-topic. Decks posted in this thread are to be of similar design and all posts herein are to be related to this archetype. Anything else will be marked as spam and infracted.

Quick N'toast was an archetype built to counter faeries, while this one does badly against Faeries.

Is Doran completely out of consideration for the Finks/Thrinax spot? He seems really good in some matchups, specifically Faeries and RDW.

here are two more Top 8 lists from a 32 man tourney from Neutral Ground. There were 12 Quick and Toast Decks at the event. You can find the other decklists here:
http://www.deckcheck.net/event.php?event=Neutral+Ground+1st+Year+Anniversary+%241000+Standard+Event





I like both of these lists. i like the creatures and lands in the first one but like the other spells better in the latter.

My sample build:

Quote from TTA

Whats the difference between this thread and Quick n Toast?

You'll also see each and every Competitive deck in this Forum getting a new thread. This is the long-awaited re-vamping of the Competitive Forum, in case no one noticed yet.

As to this particular deck...If you compared the list above to the original list in the first page of the old thread, I think one would see the obvious differences. This is the most recent competitive update of the deck.

Quote from panos:)

Good deck although it looks like quick n toast to me. I dont get why it doesnt have other finishers like oona, bloodmate etc and is only trying to with cruel ultimatum. How do you think planeswalker would work in there? Like jace to draw cards or liliana to tutor the ultimatum?

Cloudthresher is also a finisher. Not to mention a lot of the time you win with Finks/Drifters going all the way.

I don't like Planeswalkers MD. Jace in the SB for the mirror is the only one I'd consider playing.

What are some good SB options for a meta full of RDW? I'm playing Halo but I can'tr eally think of any good lifegain cards...

arbiter of knollridge was always one of my favorites, but just good spot removal is probs better... condemn and bant charm are really good vs. demigod. terror isn't bad against FoD... there are a lot of options.. resounding silence

Quote from Garzasin

What are some good SB options for a meta full of RDW? I'm playing Halo but I can'tr eally think of any good lifegain cards...

My meta has a decent number of RDW. The match itself really isn't bad first game. You should have MD Condemns and Bant Charms to stop Demigod from coming back. I side in 3 Runed Halos and 2 Primal Commands. The Primal Commands are nice because you'll usually stabilize the board at low life, so gaining 7 life allows you to tap out at the end of their turn without fear of getting Flame Javd for the game.

Quote from Kreator

Primal Command may be useful getting 7 life and additional Finks or a Finisher.

tutors for win cons are not needed.. theirs 2 ways to win with this deck. run over with finks/drifter/thresher or blowout from oona.

Quote from roussos

Why no one is using Broodmate Dragon?

its a good card and one of the lists i posted uses oversoul of dusk instead of it.. but imo those slots are better filled up with nuckles and cruel ulitmatum. but i might try dragon MD again. it adds quick pressure when dropped post wrath.. but for six mana id rather play oona.

Not to be a nay-sayer, but doesn't this deck go by more creative names than "Five Color Control"?

Anyways, I really like Bant charm in this deck. A lot of haterz criticized me for maindecking it when ALA first hit Standard, but IMO it's the best removal in standard.

Lots of people are still main decking Bant charm, I myself use three.

what do you mean are still? its a staple at this point.

So one of my thoughts that I have been tossing around is going down to one Makeshift Mannequin and one Cruel Ultimatium and moving in the 1 Resounding Thunder and 1 Firespout/Jund Charm to the maindeck and moving 2x Memory Plunder into the sideboard.

What do you people think?

imo make the MD spout a resounding thunder. then drop the primal commands and add plunders.

Woltereck's new build seems pretty good, minus the fact it still banks on casting Cruel Ultimatum at any cost. Have people tested the three Remove Souls? I'm not confident on leaning on them as my way of saying no to turn 2 shenanigans.

Quote from neversober13

imo make the MD spout a resounding thunder. then drop the primal commands and add plunders.

is the resounding thunder really that worth it?and is the 25 lands the right number?im still running 26.

I haven't had any issue with 25 Lands at this point. I like the Primals against aggro...especially a conservative RG mana ramp or Kithkin player. Is the Memory Plunder really worth replacing the Primals?

About the Firespout and Resounding Thunder debate, I find myself having serious issues against Aggro if I'm on the draw and the only mass removal I have is Wrath.

Quote from Endermage

I haven't had any issue with 25 Lands at this point. I like the Primals against aggro...especially a conservative RG mana ramp or Kithkin player. Is the Memory Plunder really worth replacing the Primals?

About the Firespout and Resounding Thunder debate, I find myself having serious issues against Aggro if I'm on the draw and the only mass removal I have is Wrath.

I run 3 Bant Charm, 1 Shriekmaw, 3 Wrath, 2 Firespout, with 2 Jund Charm and 4 Condemn in the board. I'm basically taking the 3 MD Condemn slots that most are running and running 1 Shriekmaw, 1 Twincast, and 1 Broodmate Dragon. The added fatty is nice against control decks, and the random Twincast is like a cheaper Memory Plunder most of the time (and no one ever expects it.) It should probably be something else but I like the randomness of it, and hitting someone's Cruel Ultimatum, then countering it with Cryptic is pretty hot.

I haven't loved Resounding Thunder. I'm just running Glen Elendra Archmage and Memory Plunder in the board (I also side in my 3rd Cloudthresher in the mirror and against faeries, the decks that Resounding Thunder is good against.)

Okay. Now, making a non bet FCC deck (we had a local thing to prove GA could work in a staple and thanks to you guys I won :-D )


I know the SB has a lot of board clearing but my local meta has a lot of agro/token decks. What would be better VS a broader meta?

Also, I would like to put a thunder in but feel hard pressed to cut something in the MD, suggestions would be awesome!

I just finished my Monday Night Magic tournament at my local shop.
Here's what I ran:

I had a pretty lousy record, but I was EXTREMELY close with both of the matches that I lost (lost them both in G3).
It came down to better topdecking, which I have never been terribly lucky with.

There are a few things I'd change if I were going to be playing in a real competitive tournament.

-1 Mountain
+1 Shivan Reef

I calculate my mana bases very carefully, and I was really close to having one of each basic land in it, so I just fudged the numbers a little to include the mountain.
I hate having tons of vivids and painlands.
Painlands hurt me way too much in my aggro matchups, and with all the filter lands, it doesnt much matter.
Also, since I want to be able to play Cryptic Command at any time, almost all of my filter lands add blue.

Broken Ambitions.
This was my first week trying it, and at EVERY point, I would have rather had Negate.
Creatures are dealt with easily through Wrath of God, Firespout, Bant Charm, and after sideboarding Condemn.
I had a much harder time getting rid of the planeswalkers and other counterspells in the mirror.
They swapped out for Negate almost every game.

-3 Broken Ambitions
+3 Negate


My sideboard was thrown together at the last minute.
I usually swap my 3/2 Wrath/Firesprout to be 2/3, and the 4th [CARD=Wrath of God]Wrath is never needed.
Also with all the blanket removal and Bant Charm/Condemn, and the fact that it doesnt hit as many targets as I would like, Shriekmaw is out.
Resounding Thunder is only good for the Mirror/Faeries, where I'd rather have a Guttural Response or Memory Plunder anyway.

Memory Plunder.
That card is amazing, especially in the mirror.
End of your turn Cruel Ultimatum? Cryptic Command 5,6,7? Instant speed Wrath of God?
Awesome.
Very synergistic with the discard part of Esper Charm.

Also, definitely need Guttural Response for the mirror.

-3 Negate
-1 Wrath of God
-1 Shriekmaw
-1 Resounding Thunder
+3 Guttural Response
+3 Memory Plunder


Updated Deck, speculative.
The mana may need some very slight tweaking for the updated sideboard, but for now its good enough.

Thoughts? Comments? Concerns?

Also, if you'd like to know my method for finding manabases, let me know in PM.

Quote from EveryoneShouldPlayType4

words on 5CC

If there are problems in top decking, maybe the 4th Esper Charm will be nice addition to your deck. As for your sideboard...Guttural Response may look pretty, but Negates are better here (because your Negates are going main deck, leave the 4th copy in the board?), simply because they stop Ultimatums and other whatnots (Mannequin, Runed Halo and so forth) rather than just breaking the Charms and Cryptic Command (primarily).

Maybe one or two Condemns can come in main deck and do things too. I run only two copies of Broken Ambitions though, they've been pretty nice to me, showing up as "randomly good".

ESPT, you shouldn't use basics. They only give a 20% chance to get the color you need. ATM I myself am trying out different lands to add in instead of my own islands, but I end up needing blue the most.

Also, I would consider Infest over 1 each spout and clasm at least. It helps a lot VS WW with Burrenton Forge-Tender" target="blank">Burrenton Forge-Tender.

I like your idea of the Reef, I was thinking about adding 1 each Shivan Reef and Yavimaya Coast to replace the Islands. Perhaps running a few different ALA tri-lands would help out the mana base. Try out Arcane Sanctum Crumbling Necropolis and Seaside Citadel, they may make things a bit easier for you.

Well, I threw together a 5-color deck a couple weeks ago and after a handful of tournements I have this:

Ximbad's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Lands (25) 4 Reflecting Pool 4 Vivid Grove 4 Vivid Meadow 2 Vivid Marsh 3 Mystic Gate 2 Sunken Ruins 2 Cascade Bluffs 2 Fetid Heath 1 Adarkar Wastes 1 Springjack Pasture (Might be like Dreadship Reef in Mirror, Haven't tested this) Instants (16) 4 Remove soul 2 Bant Charm 4 Esper Charm 2 Makeshift Mannequin 4 Cryptic Command	Sorceries (8) 2 Pyroclasm 4 Wrath of God 2 Cruel Ultimatum Creatures (11) 4 Kitchen Finks 4 Mulldrifter 2 Broodmate Dragon 1 Onna, Queen of the Fae	Sideboard: 4 Memory Plunder 4 Runed Halo 3 Sower of Temptation 2 Pyroclasm 2 Mind Shatter

I'm thinking of changing the Mindshatters to something more responsive, like negate.