from Magic Daily News, Mitamura Kazuya(2nd PT Yokohama and more) won the Lunatic Moon Convention Soga 203rd (whew!) tournie with this deck which looks interesting to say the least;
It does look very interesting. I must say some of the choices seem... strange. I would probably Play Volcanic Fallout standard over Pyroclasm, and probably 2 of the pyroclasms standard over tidings. (Draw 2 and sweep for 1r seems better than draw 4 for 3UU)
[...] and probably 2 of the pyroclasms standard over tidings. (Draw 2 and sweep for 1r seems better than draw 4 for 3UU)
Because the Pyroclasm's draw ability is dependent on having Swans out, Tidings is probably better. If you've been put in a bad position (someone's PtE'd your Swans, or you just haven't drawn one), you can use Tidings to get that Swan, or to get more counters/burn. I see it as more useful all around.
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""Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est"
(They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier).
very interesting deck to say the least. Seems like a rogue deck that made top 8 (maybe it's just me, but i haven't seen it around before). will be interesting to see if this develops into a new archetype. It's hard for me to imagine how it would play without playtesting it... cool concept though.
thanks for posting!
Because the Pyroclasm's draw ability is dependent on having Swans out, Tidings is probably better. If you've been put in a bad position (someone's PtE'd your Swans, or you just haven't drawn one), you can use Tidings to get that Swan, or to get more counters/burn. I see it as more useful all around.
Right but if you are dead because you didnt have a board sweeper on turn 2 or 3, having that Tidings in hand with its 5CMC isnt very comforting. Tapping out on turn 5 to draw 4 cards and not effect the board at all is usually not a good idea.
Honestly, this deck has been around for a while and is no where near as original as you make it out to be. However, the deck is good, but becomes significantly worse once more people know about it (because apparently you guys don't...). Supposedly most of the Japanese pros are bringing this to Kyoto.
Honestly, this deck has been around for a while and is no where near as original as you make it out to be. However, the deck is good, but becomes significantly worse once more people know about it (because apparently you guys don't...). Supposedly most of the Japanese pros are bringing this to Kyoto.
Yup. Before TS rotated out this deck was actually pretty big. If you do the research you will find that the old Swans decks ran Dakmor Salvage and once they drew their entire deck they just throw all the lands at you. I think it also ran Gaea's Blessing to recycle the deck and do it all over again.
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so if i am that player do i get to sleep with his girlfriend ?
Yup. Before TS rotated out this deck was actually pretty big. If you do the research you will find that the old Swans decks ran Dakmor Salvage and once they drew their entire deck they just throw all the lands at you. I think it also ran Gaea's Blessing to recycle the deck and do it all over again.
ooooh, that was quick edit, I was about to jump all over your ass for the urborg salvage statement.
Anyway, I'm still jumping all over most of your asses because this deck IS NOTHING like seismic swans. I've never actually piloted the deck before and I know this.
This deck is just straight control that uses a difficult to kill creature against aggro, I.E. Swans of Brynn Argoll as a win condition, and a few little manlands to back it up. Everything in the deck other than the swans and the lands is removal, draw, and counterspells. The point is not to burn face or swans unless you're in a super tight position, or have pretty good handle on things and need more fuel to keep it up. Pretty much this is your essential counter/burn only it's not made/piloted by timmies that actually think they can just toss counters out and burn at your face and win.
Also, Tanthalas has obviously never played control or used tidings, because that card SAVES LIVES, especially if you only see it when you need it, I.E. YOU RUN 2.
ooooh, that was quick edit, I was about to jump all over your ass for the urborg salvage statement.
Anyway, I'm still jumping all over most of your asses because this deck IS NOTHING like seismic swans. I've never actually piloted the deck before and I know this.
This deck is just straight control that uses a difficult to kill creature against aggro, I.E. Swans of Brynn Argoll as a win condition, and a few little manlands to back it up. Everything in the deck other than the swans and the lands is removal, draw, and counterspells. The point is not to burn face or swans unless you're in a super tight position, or have pretty good handle on things and need more fuel to keep it up. Pretty much this is your essential counter/burn only it's not made/piloted by timmies that actually think they can just toss counters out and burn at your face and win.
Also, Tanthalas has obviously never played control or used tidings, because that card SAVES LIVES, especially if you only see it when you need it, I.E. YOU RUN 2.
Oh, sorry, I saw the Swans and Seismic assult and made an ASS out of U and ME (Also known as ASSUME, lol). Well, Its still is swan assult, just without the combo peices. It looks awesome though, I absolutly LOVE Swans of Bryon Argoll. Its an amazing, amazing card that deserves more attention then it gets. I might try this out.
P.S.: Not that it matters, but I think you meant "Johnnies". Timmies like big, bad creatures that are generally hard to cast.
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so if i am that player do i get to sleep with his girlfriend ?
Oh, sorry, I saw the Swans and Seismic assult and made an ASS out of U and ME (Also known as ASSUME, lol). Well, Its still is swan assult, just without the combo peices. It looks awesome though, I absolutly LOVE Swans of Bryon Argoll. Its an amazing, amazing card that deserves more attention then it gets. I might try this out.
P.S.: Not that it matters, but I think you meant "Johnnies". Timmies like big, bad creatures that are generally hard to cast.
Not to be a dick, but it's not swan assault at all... still need to pay attention dude. There are only 2 seismic assaults in the deck. You wanna know why?
BECAUSE HE RUNS 27 LANDS.
It's just plain smart, while 6 of those lands can attack, the rest of them still end up being useless in the late game. But being CONTROL and NOT SEISMIC SWANS, he needs to hit his land drop every turn. While yes, Seismic Assault and Swans of Brynn Argoll are VERY synergistic, both are also good on their own in this deck, assault turning lands into weenie killers/life whittlers, and swans beating face or otherwise turning your incinerate into the best draw spell this side of the Mississippi. Together they're definitely a force to be reckoned with though, but rest assured this is not a deck that relies on or even expects this combo to happen every game.
Also, meh. Counterburn decks aren't combo, and they do big dumb stuff, so either of the subtypes could be seen playing them since both stereotypically having fun playing bad decks that do neat stuff.
Also, Tanthalas has obviously never played control or used tidings, because that card SAVES LIVES, especially if you only see it when you need it, I.E. YOU RUN 2.
I had to lol at this. I have played control for years (since.. Hrm.. '97 when I played counterpost) and in some of those control decks I have used tidings. It just doesnt fit here, where you have the ability to make your sweepers also draw, there is no reason to have a 5 cost sorcery for drawing cards. At all. And the last part of your statement betrays a basic lack of understanding of the game. Running 2 of something does NOT mean you will only see it when you need it. It does decrease the odds you will see it early when you DONT want to see it, but doesnt eliminate them. It also decreases the odds you will see it when you DO need it. Being a 5 cost sorcery, it is just too inflexible. Even Mind Spring is better as you can cycle it for 1UU if you have to, and late game you can draw 7 or more if needed.
I had to lol at this. I have played control for years (since.. Hrm.. '97 when I played counterpost) and in some of those control decks I have used tidings. It just doesnt fit here, where you have the ability to make your sweepers also draw, there is no reason to have a 5 cost sorcery for drawing cards. At all. And the last part of your statement betrays a basic lack of understanding of the game. Running 2 of something does NOT mean you will only see it when you need it. It does decrease the odds you will see it early when you DONT want to see it, but doesnt eliminate them. It also decreases the odds you will see it when you DO need it. Being a 5 cost sorcery, it is just too inflexible. Even Mind Spring is better as you can cycle it for 1UU if you have to, and late game you can draw 7 or more if needed.
But as stated before, your sweepers won't always help you draw. In the ideal situation they will, but in most cases Swans of Brynn Argoll is a flagbearer and will be RFG'd or Agony Warped in response. Also, by your logic there should be 4 Chandra Nalaar because they turn into a red tidings that draws you 6 cards instead. Do you get the point? Tidings is reliable and consistent in what it does whereas relying on a swans being out and having a form of damage in hand is not.
Running 2 of them, you obviously won't see it as much, but you'll have more likeliness of seeing it later in the game, when you actually WANT to see it.
Sorry you got all technical and decided to assume that I meant running two of a certain card turns your magic cards into yugi-oh cards and automatically transports you to a magical world where trusting your deck will deliver the cards you need actually works. Because what I really meant was the obvious fact that the less copies you run of a card, the less likely you are to see it, especially in the early game, but that your chances for seeing any card you run increase as your turns progress and you draw cards, and if you're running a deck that uses things like Swans of Brynn Argoll and Jace Belleren, your chances increase even more since you're drawing even more cards, though more than likely you won't see the card until later in the game, especially if you only run two. But really, the core of the matter is that Tidings is not something you generally wanna see in your opening hand, but isn't horrible for it to be there, whereas two in your opening hand can be devastating to your strategy. But what's even WORSE is having a mind spring in your opening hand and using it to cycle into one card.
It's better than mind spring because it's more bang for your buck mid-game when you need some solid draw. While Mind Spring may beat it in that respect late game, you spend more mana to do so, and if I had 7-8 mana I'd still rather have tidings than mind spring so I might be able to actually play what I drew into. Not to mention you'd probably end up having mind spring and using it as a crappy counsel of the soratami or a crappy concentrate. Heck, even when you pay 6 mana it's still a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ tidings, the only time it even gets close to being better is when you pay 7, in which case 5cc just cruel ultimatum'd your ass anyway.
So I honestly cant see a reason to run seismic assault in this deck. The deck can't combo out like seismic swans could, and it costs RRR which might be difficult to cast in a deck running cryptic command. Its a terrible weenie killer, and often times i would not want to toss lands at my swan.
So does this deck just win through seismic beats?
Also, how good is swans really in a format that uses much more RFG than direct damage as removal, and where trample is relevant?
In what universe? If you build a deck like that, and ever draw that hand, I will personally come to wherever you live, perform complicated acts of awestruck *********, then disembowel myself to escape the world that allowed something like to to occur and validate you.
So I honestly cant see a reason to run seismic assault in this deck. The deck can't combo out like seismic swans could, and it costs RRR which might be difficult to cast in a deck running cryptic command. Its a terrible weenie killer, and often times i would not want to toss lands at my swan.
So does this deck just win through seismic beats?
Also, how good is swans really in a format that uses much more RFG than direct damage as removal, and where trample is relevant?
Also...27 lands and not even one MD banefie?
A) Seismic assault tuns all your lands into a free draw 2 cards or deal 2 damage or be a land, it is clearly insane in this deck, and most of the time when you draw 2 you will net at least 1 land, when you run 27.
B) This deck wins through attacking with swans/ burning out with seismic and other burn spells (like chandra)
C)That's why you run the counters, to protect it. It still has a bit to worry about, but it isn't as bad as you make out.
D) You chuck your lands to the assaults, so you will normally end up with less in play than the average deck, unless you want more. So Banefire isn't such an instant inclusion, but neither is it an obvious drop.
I think one copy of Banefire could give this deck just a little extra reach endgame and therefore be useful. I'm not saying it's an autoinclude, but it seems like a sound idea.
Also, not everything needs to have amazing synergy, nor does everything with decent synergy work in a deck like this. For instance, playing Countryside Crusher would be a terrible mistake here.
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""Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est"
(They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier).
-DFW, in Infinite Jest
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2 Seismic Assault
3 Pyroclasm
2 Tidings
4 Cryptic Command
3 Broken Ambitions
3 Remove Soul
2 Negate
4 Incinerate
2 Magma Spray
3 Jace Beleren
1 Chandra Nalaar
2 Mountain
4 Shivan Reef
4 Cascade Bluffs
4 Crumbling Necropolis
4 Reflecting Pool
4 Mutavault
2 Faerie Conclave
4 Volcanic Fallout
2 Negate
2 Swerve
1 Banefire
3 Plumeveil
2 Glen Elandra Archmage
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
On the 202nd LMC another fella made top 8 with a similar deck.
It sure looks interesting, but I must say I have a hard time seeing how it can be consistent. Anyone out there tried this new very Japanese deck ?
massive draw power while permissing nothing to connect lol
Standard:
Retired.
Modern:
Blitzhelix! RW
EDH (1v1): I am a jerk! RG
Tiny Leaders (1v1): BURN! R
Because the Pyroclasm's draw ability is dependent on having Swans out, Tidings is probably better. If you've been put in a bad position (someone's PtE'd your Swans, or you just haven't drawn one), you can use Tidings to get that Swan, or to get more counters/burn. I see it as more useful all around.
(They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier).
thanks for posting!
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Right but if you are dead because you didnt have a board sweeper on turn 2 or 3, having that Tidings in hand with its 5CMC isnt very comforting. Tapping out on turn 5 to draw 4 cards and not effect the board at all is usually not a good idea.
Yup. Before TS rotated out this deck was actually pretty big. If you do the research you will find that the old Swans decks ran Dakmor Salvage and once they drew their entire deck they just throw all the lands at you. I think it also ran Gaea's Blessing to recycle the deck and do it all over again.
About Mindslaver rulings:
ooooh, that was quick edit, I was about to jump all over your ass for the urborg salvage statement.
Anyway, I'm still jumping all over most of your asses because this deck IS NOTHING like seismic swans. I've never actually piloted the deck before and I know this.
This deck is just straight control that uses a difficult to kill creature against aggro, I.E. Swans of Brynn Argoll as a win condition, and a few little manlands to back it up. Everything in the deck other than the swans and the lands is removal, draw, and counterspells. The point is not to burn face or swans unless you're in a super tight position, or have pretty good handle on things and need more fuel to keep it up. Pretty much this is your essential counter/burn only it's not made/piloted by timmies that actually think they can just toss counters out and burn at your face and win.
Also, Tanthalas has obviously never played control or used tidings, because that card SAVES LIVES, especially if you only see it when you need it, I.E. YOU RUN 2.
Oh, sorry, I saw the Swans and Seismic assult and made an ASS out of U and ME (Also known as ASSUME, lol). Well, Its still is swan assult, just without the combo peices. It looks awesome though, I absolutly LOVE Swans of Bryon Argoll. Its an amazing, amazing card that deserves more attention then it gets. I might try this out.
P.S.: Not that it matters, but I think you meant "Johnnies". Timmies like big, bad creatures that are generally hard to cast.
About Mindslaver rulings:
Not to be a dick, but it's not swan assault at all... still need to pay attention dude. There are only 2 seismic assaults in the deck. You wanna know why?
BECAUSE HE RUNS 27 LANDS.
It's just plain smart, while 6 of those lands can attack, the rest of them still end up being useless in the late game. But being CONTROL and NOT SEISMIC SWANS, he needs to hit his land drop every turn. While yes, Seismic Assault and Swans of Brynn Argoll are VERY synergistic, both are also good on their own in this deck, assault turning lands into weenie killers/life whittlers, and swans beating face or otherwise turning your incinerate into the best draw spell this side of the Mississippi. Together they're definitely a force to be reckoned with though, but rest assured this is not a deck that relies on or even expects this combo to happen every game.
Also, meh. Counterburn decks aren't combo, and they do big dumb stuff, so either of the subtypes could be seen playing them since both stereotypically having fun playing bad decks that do neat stuff.
I had to lol at this. I have played control for years (since.. Hrm.. '97 when I played counterpost) and in some of those control decks I have used tidings. It just doesnt fit here, where you have the ability to make your sweepers also draw, there is no reason to have a 5 cost sorcery for drawing cards. At all. And the last part of your statement betrays a basic lack of understanding of the game. Running 2 of something does NOT mean you will only see it when you need it. It does decrease the odds you will see it early when you DONT want to see it, but doesnt eliminate them. It also decreases the odds you will see it when you DO need it. Being a 5 cost sorcery, it is just too inflexible. Even Mind Spring is better as you can cycle it for 1UU if you have to, and late game you can draw 7 or more if needed.
But as stated before, your sweepers won't always help you draw. In the ideal situation they will, but in most cases Swans of Brynn Argoll is a flagbearer and will be RFG'd or Agony Warped in response. Also, by your logic there should be 4 Chandra Nalaar because they turn into a red tidings that draws you 6 cards instead. Do you get the point? Tidings is reliable and consistent in what it does whereas relying on a swans being out and having a form of damage in hand is not.
Running 2 of them, you obviously won't see it as much, but you'll have more likeliness of seeing it later in the game, when you actually WANT to see it.
Sorry you got all technical and decided to assume that I meant running two of a certain card turns your magic cards into yugi-oh cards and automatically transports you to a magical world where trusting your deck will deliver the cards you need actually works. Because what I really meant was the obvious fact that the less copies you run of a card, the less likely you are to see it, especially in the early game, but that your chances for seeing any card you run increase as your turns progress and you draw cards, and if you're running a deck that uses things like Swans of Brynn Argoll and Jace Belleren, your chances increase even more since you're drawing even more cards, though more than likely you won't see the card until later in the game, especially if you only run two. But really, the core of the matter is that Tidings is not something you generally wanna see in your opening hand, but isn't horrible for it to be there, whereas two in your opening hand can be devastating to your strategy. But what's even WORSE is having a mind spring in your opening hand and using it to cycle into one card.
It's better than mind spring because it's more bang for your buck mid-game when you need some solid draw. While Mind Spring may beat it in that respect late game, you spend more mana to do so, and if I had 7-8 mana I'd still rather have tidings than mind spring so I might be able to actually play what I drew into. Not to mention you'd probably end up having mind spring and using it as a crappy counsel of the soratami or a crappy concentrate. Heck, even when you pay 6 mana it's still a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ tidings, the only time it even gets close to being better is when you pay 7, in which case 5cc just cruel ultimatum'd your ass anyway.
So does this deck just win through seismic beats?
Also, how good is swans really in a format that uses much more RFG than direct damage as removal, and where trample is relevant?
Also...27 lands and not even one MD banefie?
A) Seismic assault tuns all your lands into a free draw 2 cards or deal 2 damage or be a land, it is clearly insane in this deck, and most of the time when you draw 2 you will net at least 1 land, when you run 27.
B) This deck wins through attacking with swans/ burning out with seismic and other burn spells (like chandra)
C)That's why you run the counters, to protect it. It still has a bit to worry about, but it isn't as bad as you make out.
D) You chuck your lands to the assaults, so you will normally end up with less in play than the average deck, unless you want more. So Banefire isn't such an instant inclusion, but neither is it an obvious drop.
Draft it on Cubetutor!
Also, not everything needs to have amazing synergy, nor does everything with decent synergy work in a deck like this. For instance, playing Countryside Crusher would be a terrible mistake here.
(They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier).