Maybe I needed a better choice of words. Let me eelaborate:
The deck (Faeries of the Blue and black variety) was not capable of winning any competitive magic: the gathering tournaments before morningtide was released. In fact, it wasn't capable of winning ANY tournaments. As Darksteel Puppy pointed out the U/G version of the deck outclassed it due to it's ability to disrupt tempo while playing little 1/1 and 2/2 faeries and snakes. Once morningtide was released, hoewever, this all changed. There was this card named bitterblossom. The new breed of faeries which is more of a control deck relies on getting an early blossom or ancestral visions, and if it does not, it struggles greatly.
If anyone disagrees, go watch a mirror match sometime or something.
UG Faeries was a horrible deck. Zvi's UB Faerie deck was actually awesome. It trashed basically the entire format except for Mana Ramp. Like, it obviously isn't nearly as powerful as the ridiculous bitterblossom build but that deck was perfectly capable of winning a tournament.
Faeries can win without AV or BB. Your statement about how you mulligan if you dont either means you have little experience with the deck or you play it poorly (and this is coming from a poor faeries player). I'd say you prob keep over half the hands that dont have AV or BB. You just seem some early action like a rune snag or a terror and then you can start taking over with cryptic command.
UG Faeries was a horrible deck. Zvi's UB Faerie deck was actually awesome. It trashed basically the entire format except for Mana Ramp. Like, it obviously isn't nearly as powerful as the ridiculous bitterblossom build but that deck was perfectly capable of winning a tournament.
That deck also struggled with (good) elves. The reason faeries did even relatively good at states was because the elf lists were not even close to being optimal. Some ran up to 4 Pack Masters. Also, elvish harbinger is a terrible card. The original faeries lists were decent but they lacked focus. With bitterblossom the deck was able to turn into a control deck, and it made it a powerful deck overall (though it's still not capable of winning a GP or a PT :/)
Faeries can win without AV or BB. Your statement about how you mulligan if you dont either means you have little experience with the deck or you play it poorly (and this is coming from a poor faeries player). I'd say you prob keep over half the hands that dont have AV or BB. You just seem some early action like a rune snag or a terror and then you can start taking over with cryptic command.
I was obviously exaggerating slightly, but the deck struggles greatly when the said cards are not in your opener. It makes it more difficult to win.
I was obviously exaggerating slightly, but the deck struggles greatly when the said cards are not in your opener. It makes it more difficult to win.
I believe it makes it more difficult to win, yeah. But that's cause it's ridiculously easy to win if you get both and relatively easy if you get T1 Visions by itself.
but people kept on going back and fourth between burn versions and creature versions that soon they became 1 and then separated.. and well... you get the point
im actually not that surprised the deck won looking at what the format has become and the way the deck is built
it has good burn spells, incinerate, flame javelin, a good finisher in the hands of demigod, the anti christ in the form of magus of the moon, which most decks just fold too.... and then there is manabarbs out of the board which will piss anybody off who it sticks too, and if you notice, red.... does have some good sideboard options these days, not very good, but decent
if your not that good of a player, than yes... i guess this deck would not win, but tyler is good, which is why it won, IMO
also, people say he got lucky with pairings, but really... its like darksteel puppy said, a good player will only have trouble with lark, and even that is winnable after board with mana barbs and smart playing
but if i might say so... with regard to lucky pairings, isn't luck part of the game? i think thats the argument here, a deck that takes less skill then most won, when this deck actually takes skill to win now days
I played RDW before Shadowmoor came out so maybe my say doesn't really count too much anymore, but RDW folds to Primal Command, Loxodon Warhammer, and the newer killer, Kitchen Finks. I played BG decks with my RDW and the it was a horrible matchup, especially when they have Wall of Roots and Primal Commands.
Also about Faeries, I am sorta siding with Jujuhawk in that without Ancestral Vision and Bitterblossom turns 1 and 2, they come very close to scooping against another tier 1 deck.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Also about Faeries, I am sorta siding with Jujuhawk in that without Ancestral Vision and Bitterblossom turns 1 and 2, they come very close to scooping against another tier 1 deck.
It doesn't need the nut draw, but it needs 1 or the other or a prayer.
Then again, I play fish so I could care less. My opponent got the god draw and I still won. =]
Ive played Faeries since Morningtide and I must say that Faeries in no way, shape or form scoops when you dont have a Visions or Bitterblossom.
It is indeed incredibly helpful when you have one or the other and daresay both. But the deck is very capable of winning any given match, that isnt RDW, regardless of drawing a Visions or Bitterblossom.
Ive played Faeries since Morningtide and I must say that Faeries in no way, shape or form scoops when you dont have a Visions or Bitterblossom.
It is indeed incredibly helpful when you have one or the other and daresay both. But the deck is very capable of winning any given match, that isnt RDW or merfolk or any other aggro deck, regardless of drawing a Visions or Bitterblossom.
It means you posted something while I was typing my response.
We are both saying the same thing, btw... I'm not disagreeing with you.
UG Faeries was a horrible deck. Zvi's UB Faerie deck was actually awesome. It trashed basically the entire format except for Mana Ramp. Like, it obviously isn't nearly as powerful as the ridiculous bitterblossom build but that deck was perfectly capable of winning a tournament.
Faeries can win without AV or BB. Your statement about how you mulligan if you dont either means you have little experience with the deck or you play it poorly (and this is coming from a poor faeries player). I'd say you prob keep over half the hands that dont have AV or BB. You just seem some early action like a rune snag or a terror and then you can start taking over with cryptic command.
That deck also struggled with (good) elves. The reason faeries did even relatively good at states was because the elf lists were not even close to being optimal. Some ran up to 4 Pack Masters. Also, elvish harbinger is a terrible card. The original faeries lists were decent but they lacked focus. With bitterblossom the deck was able to turn into a control deck, and it made it a powerful deck overall (though it's still not capable of winning a GP or a PT :/)
I was obviously exaggerating slightly, but the deck struggles greatly when the said cards are not in your opener. It makes it more difficult to win.
I believe it makes it more difficult to win, yeah. But that's cause it's ridiculously easy to win if you get both and relatively easy if you get T1 Visions by itself.
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It's funny RDW won though, my friend and I were thinking about playing it. We decided to go with r/g ramp and Fae instead.
Thanks to Spiderboy at Highlight for the awesome sigs!
which one did you play?
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I played RDW before Shadowmoor came out so maybe my say doesn't really count too much anymore, but RDW folds to Primal Command, Loxodon Warhammer, and the newer killer, Kitchen Finks. I played BG decks with my RDW and the it was a horrible matchup, especially when they have Wall of Roots and Primal Commands.
Also about Faeries, I am sorta siding with Jujuhawk in that without Ancestral Vision and Bitterblossom turns 1 and 2, they come very close to scooping against another tier 1 deck.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)It doesn't need the nut draw, but it needs 1 or the other or a prayer.
Then again, I play fish so I could care less. My opponent got the god draw and I still won. =]
It is indeed incredibly helpful when you have one or the other and daresay both. But the deck is very capable of winning any given match, that isnt RDW, regardless of drawing a Visions or Bitterblossom.
fixed.
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