I think everyone can agree the current Standard meta is broken. The question is how to fix it.
With Wizards no longer printing core sets the Standard card pool is not only more limited but also far too based on the flavor of the current Standard sets. While some staples get reprinted from time to time (e.g. Shock) the format lacks basic staples. By instituting a Standard Masters set (essentially a rebranded core set) Wizards can increase the Standard card pool without having to mess with rotations or new set cycles.
I would propose the printing of a Standard Masters series. This set would be printed on an annual basis such that one Standard Masters would be in the format at any given point with roughly 300 cards pet set. It would be up to Wizards to determine how much each printing would vary year to year. Due to the adoption of a State of Standard thread that includes this subject matter, this thread is locked. -hoser2
I think this would go a long way in ensuring they can have proper answers in constructed without ruining their draft format.
Another alternative would be to just declare by fiat a bunch of card to be standard legal. (And maybe sell a beginner toolkit containing them.) So they would just declare that, say, wrath of god is standard-legal for 2017, or pithing needle. That would avoid the problem of not being able to put enough reprint in normal set ("because we need new cards to sell the set!") and not having a set full of reprint like core set ("few people buy it because it's full of cards they already own!").
They already do print a couple of extra cards in those that are standard legal because they're in the intropacks/planeswalker dual decks but aren't featured in any of the boosters.
They could expand on those to include more non-set cards to get them standard legal if they want.
Five sets a year, with one of them being basically a core set, sounds good to me. Make sure to include all the intro-deck cards in it, so that they get proper printings, and have it be the one set that _isn't_ designed primarily for limited, but primarily for constructed, focusing on making sure to print useful utility cards and sideboard tools that Standard needs but don't fit well in the regular sets. Make sure to include cards with stuff that Standard needs but don't fit flavor or set-mechanics wise in the regular block sets, and stuff that isn't unsafe for Standard but needs printing or reprinting for Modern's sake. Also include some interesting commander stuff that doesn't fit flavor or set-mechanics wise in the current Standard sets. Give it enough good cards to make sure it doesn't have the normal problem we used to wind up with for core sets, where they were less popular than the block sets, and give it interesting new names each year, rather than just something generic like core set year number (include such as a secondary name), so that newer players don't discount it.
Use it to play with more generic mechanics that the sets don't support as well due to making room for their special ones, stuff like scry, menace, chandrawing, red land-tapping without untap next turn thing, prowess, etc. that haven't been used as much yet. Perhaps consider having special lists of names or symbols on each card that show which plane(s) they can be found on of planes we've already visited for flavor reasons.
They already do print a couple of extra cards in those that are standard legal because they're in the intropacks/planeswalker dual decks but aren't featured in any of the boosters.
They could expand on those to include more non-set cards to get them standard legal if they want.
What are some examples of that? I don't recall any cards being in standard in the past few years that didn't come from a booster type set
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Originally Posted by Massive Marc
You know back in the old days, when there wasn't EDH, these "griefer" cards in decks were the norm. If you played a Winter Orb when you're opponents were tapped out, it was a good play. Now, you get people tell you they wanna punch you ? It's really sad how carebare this format is, to the point that some loser has to rip up your cards.
I wouldn't mind if the duel decks they print normally have their cards considered standard legal. That's one way to get in answers or other cards that don't necessarily fit the setting we are playing in, but at the same time it could make the duel decks too valuable and take them out of the hands of people who just want them to play strait up.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Soul of the Harvest (printed in Avacyn Restored) and Disperse (last printed in Magic Origins) being prime examples of cards that are standard legal atm without being in any of the standard sets.
They could do more Origins themed sets annually that dont have to be as flavorful as any block but more flavorful than core sets and can be where they print answers. We have plenty of planeswalkers out there that could have their own flipwalker card
The main reason they got rid of core sets was due to it having an identity crisis as they just didn't know who or what the set was for. So, instead of keeping the set they slowly decommissioned it and replaced it with two different products, neither of which ever hit standard rotation: The Masters series, a premium sealed 24 pack box set meant to somehow honor secondary market prices while also giving reprints to the community that is basically a travesty in terms of value, and the commander series that hits everything else.
Ugh, so going back to Mark Rosewater's original article and looking at how things shaped up over the next couple of years I can now see what they really wanted to say: We don't want to do reprints in standard as we want a completely new magic the gathering experience focused around our Justice League knock offs and are planning to eventually start a new non-rotating format without all the "lessons learned" mechanics of the past. We also want you folks to buy all new cards so nothing you have from modern era is worth a damn in our new format.
How did I come to that conclusion?
1) removal of modern PT
2) lower overall coverage of modern based events.
3) lack of meaningful reprints since the start of BFZ.
4) lack of strong Modern Era level answers in standard for fear of them being too powerful, yet pushing creatures to be just as strong as the answers were.
5) far more character focused MtG cards that are equivalents to prior non-walker focused cards.
6) the intro of Planeswalker decks.
7) Keeping all meaningful reprints for modern and eternal formats to an expensive 24 pack reprint series that has limited quantities printed.
There's a few more reasons, but that is how it at least looks to me from the onset. Again, this is my own opinion and based on at least some speculation from re-reading old articles from wizards.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I agree, wizards also messed up by pandering to much to new players while alienating the older players. New players come and go but your older players are the ones who keep the game alive. I can't tell you how many people I have introduced to the game over the years. Loosing older players like myself hurts the game. I'm at the point were I may never play standard again, a format that I have played in since 1994.
Greed is what broke standard, I'm not sure if that can be fixed.
I think they should rework Intro Decks, and make them more thematic. How about five decks for each set released in Standard, varying in color(s) depending on the set. Each deck uses reprinted cards from older sets featuring new artwork (depending on if they just want to or to make it thematic to the set) that help blend into the strategy of the released set. Make them less tailored to new players by increasing the power level of the cards in the decks, not only to keep old players happy, which is something that I've found Wizards doing less and less over the years, but also add some more cards to the format.
This would allow for more cards to be in standard without needing to build "new" cards, but instead reprint ones that are useful to the Standard metagame and warrant a reprint to get more into rotation. It would almost be like a "Core Set", but less cards, and you know the cards in the decks that you buy.
There are so many old cards that are still probably around Standard's Power Level that they could reintroduce into the format, thus making standard more interesting by reintroducing older cards for newer players to try out (since they haven't been playing until recent) as well as keep old players returning with cool cards they remember playing. In unison, adding more powerful cards to these decks would also be void of tampering with limited and making some strategies too powerful, since the decks wouldn't be available in limited (unless there was some special format where you got an intro deck and some new packs or something).
Using Amonkhet as just an example, lets say they made five "Intro Decks" that contained all reprints. There are some very thematic cards that have an egyptian feel to them from Magic's past. There are also cards that could be reprinted just to help balance out Standard. Here is just a list of some cards that aid some of the new strategies in Amonkhet.
they could just make removal and spells relevant again but what do i know? im sure wizards will just be like "people want spells back, what if we put spells on more creatures that way people will get their spells and newer players get creatures!! Genius" "ya mean like enchantment creatures?" then a dude gets thrown through a window from a high building. if they just made interesting cards people might actually brew again. they should look at standards that people actually liked take note and then go from there.
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Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
Fix standard? stop printing only powerful effects at rare and mythic.
a deck shouldn't be 90% rares from the standard legal cards.
That's what happens when you design sets with limited play as your main goal and not deck construction.
No it isn't a fun limited pool can ALSO have great uncommon/commons infact it LIKES having such cards, I would argue having great removal and creatures in the lower slots and big dumb unplayable rares/mythics would make limited alot more fun and less swingy.
Deckbuilders Toolkits and the Planeswalker decks would the ideal place to jam all the cards they want in standard that they don't want to make work in their limited enviroment because no one buys them as is.
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That was pretty interesting. But dropping a warship on me is cheating. Take it back!
I think the player are right here, Standard suffers at the hand of limited.
I would say this is a cost that should be paid over and over. Possibly even ending standard if it improves the limited game.
And I could make the exact opposite argument. Limited was just fine when powerful removal, effective creatures showed up at common and uncommon. Instead what we have now is BomB limited.
Forget fixing Intro decks. It's an idea that should never have lasted as long as it did. The decks don't work very well for new players and established players don't need to be introduced to the set. The Planeswalker decks are just as aggravating to see those "extra" cards with their stupid slot numbers like 256/255. Both of these concepts need to go away.
Deck builders are interesting but I'm not sure of their costs match their value.
I'm in the core set camp. I joined MtG during Ice Age so I missed out on many of the sets. The core sets allowed me to build reasonably competitive decks for a lower price point (more than 1/2 my cards were white bordered those first six months). Then over the course of two years, I replaced or outright bought the more expensive (rather, more desirable) black border versions. The fact that WotC decided to replace core sets after 10th with Magic *s tells me that they completely overlooked the needs of the market by ignoring new players entirely. So they tried to cater to establizhed players but ended up canceling the "core" sets after Origins. Now they stuck with the needs of two groups of players.
Better yet, just cleave the sets right down the middle... more or less.
They have the right idea with Modern Masters but woefully wrong if they think paying $10 a pack for reprints is actually a good idea. Let Standard have their four set rotation of mediocre cards, release two or more sets a year of non-standard legal cards. A much smaller set of less than 300 cards of reprints to make entry less painful for new players and a larger, "interesting new" cards set. Modern still gets whatever interesting cards get rotated out of Standard (if any ever get printed) but isn't starved for staples that are considered game breaking in Standard. With a new modern-only set, Wizards can play with more dangerous mechanics otherwise deemed broken in Standard.
A bit like an inversed Portal. To prevent new Standard players from buying cards they can't play, just have a giant medallion on each pack screaming "NOT STANDARD LEGAL!!" or some such.
Another alternative would be to just declare by fiat a bunch of card to be standard legal. (And maybe sell a beginner toolkit containing them.) So they would just declare that, say, wrath of god is standard-legal for 2017, or pithing needle. That would avoid the problem of not being able to put enough reprint in normal set ("because we need new cards to sell the set!") and not having a set full of reprint like core set ("few people buy it because it's full of cards they already own!").
Standard by Fiat. Might work.
This its the cheapest and most effective way of doing it. Will take but ONE day each year call it the "Legal list" cards that are legal even if they may or may not be in print. You can even update it encase of an emergency legalizing extra hate instead of banning something to help a format out. This would also help phase basic land out of print (everyone and every store has so much its silly and they can still print them in precons/deck builder tools things for new players) give me an extra common for draft in my booster!!
With Wizards no longer printing core sets the Standard card pool is not only more limited but also far too based on the flavor of the current Standard sets. While some staples get reprinted from time to time (e.g. Shock) the format lacks basic staples. By instituting a Standard Masters set (essentially a rebranded core set) Wizards can increase the Standard card pool without having to mess with rotations or new set cycles.
I would propose the printing of a Standard Masters series. This set would be printed on an annual basis such that one Standard Masters would be in the format at any given point with roughly 300 cards pet set. It would be up to Wizards to determine how much each printing would vary year to year.
Due to the adoption of a State of Standard thread that includes this subject matter, this thread is locked. -hoser2
I think this would go a long way in ensuring they can have proper answers in constructed without ruining their draft format.
Another alternative would be to just declare by fiat a bunch of card to be standard legal. (And maybe sell a beginner toolkit containing them.) So they would just declare that, say, wrath of god is standard-legal for 2017, or pithing needle. That would avoid the problem of not being able to put enough reprint in normal set ("because we need new cards to sell the set!") and not having a set full of reprint like core set ("few people buy it because it's full of cards they already own!").
Standard by Fiat. Might work.
They already do print a couple of extra cards in those that are standard legal because they're in the intropacks/planeswalker dual decks but aren't featured in any of the boosters.
They could expand on those to include more non-set cards to get them standard legal if they want.
Use it to play with more generic mechanics that the sets don't support as well due to making room for their special ones, stuff like scry, menace, chandrawing, red land-tapping without untap next turn thing, prowess, etc. that haven't been used as much yet. Perhaps consider having special lists of names or symbols on each card that show which plane(s) they can be found on of planes we've already visited for flavor reasons.
What are some examples of that? I don't recall any cards being in standard in the past few years that didn't come from a booster type set
You know back in the old days, when there wasn't EDH, these "griefer" cards in decks were the norm. If you played a Winter Orb when you're opponents were tapped out, it was a good play. Now, you get people tell you they wanna punch you ? It's really sad how carebare this format is, to the point that some loser has to rip up your cards.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Soul of the Harvest (printed in Avacyn Restored) and Disperse (last printed in Magic Origins) being prime examples of cards that are standard legal atm without being in any of the standard sets.
Ugh, so going back to Mark Rosewater's original article and looking at how things shaped up over the next couple of years I can now see what they really wanted to say: We don't want to do reprints in standard as we want a completely new magic the gathering experience focused around our Justice League knock offs and are planning to eventually start a new non-rotating format without all the "lessons learned" mechanics of the past. We also want you folks to buy all new cards so nothing you have from modern era is worth a damn in our new format.
How did I come to that conclusion?
1) removal of modern PT
2) lower overall coverage of modern based events.
3) lack of meaningful reprints since the start of BFZ.
4) lack of strong Modern Era level answers in standard for fear of them being too powerful, yet pushing creatures to be just as strong as the answers were.
5) far more character focused MtG cards that are equivalents to prior non-walker focused cards.
6) the intro of Planeswalker decks.
7) Keeping all meaningful reprints for modern and eternal formats to an expensive 24 pack reprint series that has limited quantities printed.
There's a few more reasons, but that is how it at least looks to me from the onset. Again, this is my own opinion and based on at least some speculation from re-reading old articles from wizards.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Greed is what broke standard, I'm not sure if that can be fixed.
I think they should rework Intro Decks, and make them more thematic. How about five decks for each set released in Standard, varying in color(s) depending on the set. Each deck uses reprinted cards from older sets featuring new artwork (depending on if they just want to or to make it thematic to the set) that help blend into the strategy of the released set. Make them less tailored to new players by increasing the power level of the cards in the decks, not only to keep old players happy, which is something that I've found Wizards doing less and less over the years, but also add some more cards to the format.
This would allow for more cards to be in standard without needing to build "new" cards, but instead reprint ones that are useful to the Standard metagame and warrant a reprint to get more into rotation. It would almost be like a "Core Set", but less cards, and you know the cards in the decks that you buy.
There are so many old cards that are still probably around Standard's Power Level that they could reintroduce into the format, thus making standard more interesting by reintroducing older cards for newer players to try out (since they haven't been playing until recent) as well as keep old players returning with cool cards they remember playing. In unison, adding more powerful cards to these decks would also be void of tampering with limited and making some strategies too powerful, since the decks wouldn't be available in limited (unless there was some special format where you got an intro deck and some new packs or something).
Using Amonkhet as just an example, lets say they made five "Intro Decks" that contained all reprints. There are some very thematic cards that have an egyptian feel to them from Magic's past. There are also cards that could be reprinted just to help balance out Standard. Here is just a list of some cards that aid some of the new strategies in Amonkhet.
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
a deck shouldn't be 90% rares from the standard legal cards.
Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
This.
No it isn't a fun limited pool can ALSO have great uncommon/commons infact it LIKES having such cards, I would argue having great removal and creatures in the lower slots and big dumb unplayable rares/mythics would make limited alot more fun and less swingy.
I would say this is a cost that should be paid over and over. Possibly even ending standard if it improves the limited game.
https://archidekt.com/user/71716
And I could make the exact opposite argument. Limited was just fine when powerful removal, effective creatures showed up at common and uncommon. Instead what we have now is BomB limited.
Behind the eyes of truth, is a world of illustions.
Dragon Riderof a Mist Dragonn anyway with the Dragon Riders Clan.
Deck builders are interesting but I'm not sure of their costs match their value.
I'm in the core set camp. I joined MtG during Ice Age so I missed out on many of the sets. The core sets allowed me to build reasonably competitive decks for a lower price point (more than 1/2 my cards were white bordered those first six months). Then over the course of two years, I replaced or outright bought the more expensive (rather, more desirable) black border versions. The fact that WotC decided to replace core sets after 10th with Magic *s tells me that they completely overlooked the needs of the market by ignoring new players entirely. So they tried to cater to establizhed players but ended up canceling the "core" sets after Origins. Now they stuck with the needs of two groups of players.
Better yet, just cleave the sets right down the middle... more or less.
They have the right idea with Modern Masters but woefully wrong if they think paying $10 a pack for reprints is actually a good idea. Let Standard have their four set rotation of mediocre cards, release two or more sets a year of non-standard legal cards. A much smaller set of less than 300 cards of reprints to make entry less painful for new players and a larger, "interesting new" cards set. Modern still gets whatever interesting cards get rotated out of Standard (if any ever get printed) but isn't starved for staples that are considered game breaking in Standard. With a new modern-only set, Wizards can play with more dangerous mechanics otherwise deemed broken in Standard.
A bit like an inversed Portal. To prevent new Standard players from buying cards they can't play, just have a giant medallion on each pack screaming "NOT STANDARD LEGAL!!" or some such.
This its the cheapest and most effective way of doing it. Will take but ONE day each year call it the "Legal list" cards that are legal even if they may or may not be in print. You can even update it encase of an emergency legalizing extra hate instead of banning something to help a format out. This would also help phase basic land out of print (everyone and every store has so much its silly and they can still print them in precons/deck builder tools things for new players) give me an extra common for draft in my booster!!