With the Ixalan rotation the thread started by Schreckstoff will be the active URx thread and this one will be archived. It makes sense for discussion to occur there, so I am locking this thread. Thanks! - hoser2
This is a deck I've been testing to counter-act all of the Vehicle-Aggro and/or Smuggler's Copters decks at my LGS' FNM.
Through somewhat thorough testing, this deck has exceeded my expectations. Initially, it was made just to hate RW-Vehicles. I found that it performs superbly well against most aggro decks. It also is a great matchup against GB Delirium (I've had good success anyway). I haven't been able to test against the Aetherworks Reservoir decks, but I like my matchups after sideboarding.
Planeswalkers:
The idea is to just scry away, looking for the cards you need. Saheeli is really only needed for her +1 and -2 abilities. Though, if you can -7, there are cards to hit. Chandra is absolutely insane in this deck. Being able to shock or ramp every turn is not to be trifled with. And, for big fatties, you can minus Chandra as well as mix in a burn spell to take them down. If in G1 they don't take either walker seriously, you bet they will game 2.
Creatures:
Thriving Turtle might be the best 1 drop creature in the format - definitely for blue. It mucks up the ground with its 0/3 body, gives you 2 energy that can be used for a +1/+1 counter, scrying or Harnessed Lightning. It slows games down to a crawl (pun somewhat intended). Aether Theorist I like because it has the 1/3 body, 3 energy that works with Harnessed Lightning and most importanly, SCRYING. Being able to smooth out our draws is insanely important. The Gearhulks are pretty self explanatory. The curve on this deck is kinda weird, so I only have 1-of in the MD. Searchable off of Saheeli's ult, and their ETBs can be very powerful. And finally, Goblin Dark-Dwellers. It can hit all of the utility spells in the deck, as well as the burn. Remember that -2 on Saheeli on your Dark-Dwellers causes its ETB to trigger again.
Sorceries:
Draw Cards. Wipe the board. Don't be scared of discarding with Cathartic Reunion. Dark-Dwellers allows most spells to still be cast. And, Perpetual Timepiece is going to allow you to shuffle your yard back into your library. Cathartic Reunion is amazing.
Instants:
Burn baby, burn! Fiery Temper is best when madness'd off of Cathartic Reunion. I've used Cathartic Reunion to put a Galvanic Bombardment in the yard to save for bigger creatures for later. A couple Anticipates allows you to find some cards, too
Artifacts:
The, "get me out of jail free" card of the deck. It allows you to shuffle your graveyard into your deck. Also copyable off of Saheeli, so don't pitch it if you can copy it!
Sideboard:
Basically, this board is made for control style matchups, as well as Aetherworks Reservoir. Its a WIP, and I'm open to any ideas.
I've played this dozens of times, and while I think it's very good, its also very fun!
UR Dynavolt/Spells probably does belong in Established due to placing in top 8 at PT Kaledesh, but the deck in the OP is definitely not something that's been appearing at any competitive level.
This is what I'll be bringing to FNM & Game Day this week. I took a big dose of Pierre's list and added a little more burn instead of card draw. I'm still pretty new to standard, having only played a little bit of Thermo-thing pre-rotation. I'm not 100% sure what to expect in my meta, but I get the feeling I'll be facing a solid amount of various iterations of the PT top 8 at a minimum.
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This weekend is Grand Prix Providence so I'll be going to that. I'm also making the switch to Dynavolt Tower. It's functionally similar to the previous plan of using Thermo-Alchemist, but it's a harder card for the opponent to remove, and it can kill creatures. This weekend there is a good chance a lot of players there will be playing either of the two finalist decks from Pro Tour, and those are both blue-based control decks. I think at Game Day, which is much more casual, there might be more experimenting so it's hard to say what to prepare for.
Here's what I'm looking at testing with the next three days.
Against Control, I basically bring in everything except the 3x Kozilek's Return. It's a bit of a gamble going in so hard against it, but I'm betting on it being a big player after PT. I would definitely take out the 4x Cathartic Reunion against counter magic. I think RW Vehicles will still be a major player, and against that deck I have access to Ceremonious Rejection and Negate. Depending on the other creatures in the deck, Kozilek's Return can make an appearance as well. For Aetherworks Marvel decks (which I don't expect to see a lot of, it didn't do well at PT), basically the same way I would board against control. Keep the artifact from landing on the battlefield and you should be okay. Importantly, Ceremonious Rejection will also take care of Emrakul or Ulamog being cast normally. For RG Pummeler, I'd like to bring in Kozilek's Return and the 4 Negates.
What are everyone's thoughts on Overwhelming Denial? I see this as great for the control mirror, but possibly good against the rest as well. It's great at killing removal after you've already cast something you need to stick around, or you can cast a one or two drop spell before countering something to get more effects for the same amount of mana
I can't be of much help to refining the build, but I wanted to share my experience so far. My friend and I do a gauntlet of the best PT decks all week before each game day, and this is the deck she'll likely be playing due to card availability.
In our testing, Pierre's list is great at not losing, but has a lot of trouble with actually winning. When you draw the right cards (a couple towers, a couple counterspells, plus any removal needed) this deck is very good. If you draw the wrong half of your deck, you spin tires for 10 or 12 turns and lose. When that happens, it feels like a ramp deck that can't stop drawing ramp spells and lands. That's been our testing and we're not sure where to go with it. Seems to have a particularly poor matchup against aetherworks due to basically being counterspell or bust, and not being able to burn them out before they just clobber you. We really like the deck and she'll probably be stuck playing it, at least for this weekend, so if anybody finds any improvements let us know.
Also, I definitely have no problem acknowledging that he didn't go 8-2 at the PT by mistake, and the deck is at least decent. It still feels really lethargic and inconsistent to us though.
I think Pierre's list has too many draw spells. It's why I don't play Anticipate.
The deck is good but it's also very punishing to players that make mistakes. I don't think I have played a game yet with this deck where I haven't missed at least one trigger. For example, it's easy to have a situation where you have Dynavolt Tower or Thing in the Ice on the battlefield, play Glimmer of Genius at the opponent's end of turn, make note of the triggers that go on the stack, have your opponent respond with Negate or whatever, play your own Negate, and then fail to remember the triggers for your Negate. I also had one game where I was so caught up in discarding a pair of Fiery Temper to Cathartic Reunion that I literally forgot to draw the three cards when it was over with.
I'm playing this at GP this weekend. I just need practice. Today and tomorrow nights for that.
Okay... Summary Dismissal is essential somewhere in the 75. Emrakul wrecks this deck, even if you counter it with Ceremonious Rejection. Summary Dismissal both prevents Emrakul from being on the battlefield and prevents the disastrous mindslaver effect. Also a pretty big blowout against Elder Deep-Fiend and other emerge cards that have on-cast effects. As a bonus, it's also pretty great against decks with planeswalkers that may use minus abilities for all their loyalty. Gideon, for example, as well as Jace, Liliana, and Nissa.
Having run it casually all yesterday as well as at FNM I'm actually forced to agree with bbwrenn. The deck is good when it draws what it needs but it can just sit there doing nothing. I'm going to see how it goes, but I think I'll be making the jump to Jeskai, simply for the stronger removal suite. I had too many games where it came down to the tower being removal instead of going face at which point I've basically lost.
FNM results were 0-2-2. People were playing slow so most matches went to time, Match 1 was against 5 colour panharmonicon good stuff which I got game one off the back of two towers, game 2 he just out valued me and game 3 went to turns with him gaining 6 life from every filligree familar but was a draw. Match 2 was Esper Walkers/Control. Game 1, 2 towers, gg. Game 2 I couldn't stick a threat, visions off the board was useful, but never stuck around long enough to do anything. Game 3 I almost had, but we went to turns, Sorin flipped an Emrakul and I ended up being two points of burn short after he ultimated sorin. Game 3 Mardu reanimator, turn 4 geahulk game 1, got rid of it, jam another. GG. Game 2 visions came in and between it, Thing and Niblis I got it, but this game was stupidly slow on his end so we never got a game 3. Match 4 landed a turn 3 tower, felt good, opponent untapped, played a marvel and hit emrakul. Game 2 marvel gets fought over and i cop 2 dispels trying to fight over it. T4 Emmy, Turn 5 Ulamog...yep.
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I think a big problem with trying to play the "best" burn spells in the format is that too many of them can only target creatures. 4x Harnessed Lightning, 4x Galvanic Bombardment, 2x Lightning Axe... that's too many. This was a huge problem for me at GP Providence this weekend. First, I had too many times when I had my opponent down under 10, even had Dynavolt Tower on the battlefield, and I just couldn't cast spells out of my hand because of a lack of viable targets. Second, it also means I can't redirect damage to planeswalkers.
I'm going to try leaving in just the set of Harnessed Lightning. The other six cards are coming out. I'll play a full set of Incendiary Flow (this is also a smart card choice because of the increased presence in Prized Amalgam), instead of just two. Anticipate isn't a burn spell, but it helps me dig to them, so I may try a playset of those for the other four cards.
I want to move Thing in the Ice to the sideboard. It's a great card, but they almost always have removal for it and it's the only creature in the deck aside from the one gearhulk that has other advantages. I'd rather play 0 creatures in game one in order to make their removal package useless, then bring them in game 2 after the removal has been taken out. So I'm looking at replacing them with additional burn. At this point, options are slim. I'm mainly looking at Geistblast and Chandra's Pyrohelix. Also I'm open to playing 1 more Collective Defiance.
With this much cheap card draw, I'm actually going to pull out the Glimmer of Genius. It's an excellent card but I want the card draw spells to be cheap so I can cast what I draw (and rack up faster energy via Dynavolt Tower). I'm moving some of the Negates to the main deck, because Negate is good against virtually every deck in the format right now. Creature-based aggro decks are typically playing Smuggler's Copter, and RG Aggro plays nasty pump spells.
I can't recall the last 4 sideboard cards right now but I don't recall using them in any matchups. I went 2-1, winning against two G/W Humans lists and losing 2-1 against B/W control. When I lost against B/W control, the first time I missed two Thermo-Alchemist triggers either of which would have gotten me the win and the game after that I had to mulligan to 5 and never really recovered. Chandra, Torch of Defiance was a workhorse for me the two times I got to cast her. I mostly used her +1: get RR to cast extra spells which kept the board clear, got me more cards, removed Ice counters from Thing in the Ice and generated energy for Dynavolt Tower.
This version of the deck feels really strong against aggro decks. I'd have to do more testing against midrange and control but those also seem beatable. I'm still on the fence which deck I'll play going forward between this or G/R Energy but with the right adjustments the deck seems like it could work well.
So this deck only placed one entry in the top 64 of GP Providence. With the right meta it could work, but that meta isn't happening. I dunno, I think it's time to move on.
I think a big problem with trying to play the "best" burn spells in the format is that too many of them can only target creatures. 4x Harnessed Lightning, 4x Galvanic Bombardment, 2x Lightning Axe... that's too many. This was a huge problem for me at GP Providence this weekend. First, I had too many times when I had my opponent down under 10, even had Dynavolt Tower on the battlefield, and I just couldn't cast spells out of my hand because of a lack of viable targets. Second, it also means I can't redirect damage to planeswalkers.
I'm going to try leaving in just the set of Harnessed Lightning. The other six cards are coming out. I'll play a full set of Incendiary Flow (this is also a smart card choice because of the increased presence in Prized Amalgam), instead of just two. Anticipate isn't a burn spell, but it helps me dig to them, so I may try a playset of those for the other four cards.
I want to move Thing in the Ice to the sideboard. It's a great card, but they almost always have removal for it and it's the only creature in the deck aside from the one gearhulk that has other advantages. I'd rather play 0 creatures in game one in order to make their removal package useless, then bring them in game 2 after the removal has been taken out. So I'm looking at replacing them with additional burn. At this point, options are slim. I'm mainly looking at Geistblast and Chandra's Pyrohelix. Also I'm open to playing 1 more Collective Defiance.
With this much cheap card draw, I'm actually going to pull out the Glimmer of Genius. It's an excellent card but I want the card draw spells to be cheap so I can cast what I draw (and rack up faster energy via Dynavolt Tower). I'm moving some of the Negates to the main deck, because Negate is good against virtually every deck in the format right now. Creature-based aggro decks are typically playing Smuggler's Copter, and RG Aggro plays nasty pump spells.
I'll be taking almost the same build but will add more direct to player targeting spells. Might try Metallugic Summonings on the side against w/x since mostly side in fragmentize for dynavault
So this deck failed put any results in top 64 of GP Providence, and I believe the same appears to be true for GP Kuala Lumpur. With the right meta it could work, but that meta isn't happening. I dunno, I think it's time to move on.
Still giving this the whole nov. I don't hit slamdunk with it but currently enjoying arsoning their creatures
Has anyone tested Fevered Visions and Dynavolt Tower MD? Do you take one out for the other when you SB? Whats the floor on MD instants/sorceries before you start hamstringing the engine of the deck?
Has anyone tested Fevered Visions and Dynavolt Tower MD? Do you take one out for the other when you SB? Whats the floor on MD instants/sorceries before you start hamstringing the engine of the deck?
In the current meta, I think Fevered Visions is mainly good against control decks, but actively bad against most of the aggro decks that make up a large part of the format. Dynavolt Tower on the other hand does work against all types of decks.
As for the floor on MD instants and sorceries, there's a lot of approaches to that question.
Personally, I think the deck wants around 22 land and I think the maindeck can support about 8 creatures for just 4 Towers, leaving 26 slots for instants and sorceries.
I think you want the maximum amount of burn spells that can go to the face (4x Incendiary flow and 4x Fiery Temper) because if you need to rely on just Dynavolt Tower you're gonna need to cast 18 other spells *after* casting the Tower to deal enough damage to win (20+ damage needed to win, meaning 7 activations for 21 damage, meaning 7 x 5 = 35 energy, meaning 36/2 = 18 spells).
Assuming a hand with 3 lands, Dynavolt Tower, 3 spells and *none of those* spells cast before the Tower, that would mean drawing and casting 15 more spells. Surviving on just removal and counterspells for 15 turns, with no creatures or planeswalkers, seems a bit optimistic to me.
Yeah, I don't think there is any situation where you take Dynavolt Tower out of the deck. This deck used to be named after Fevered Visions, but really this is a Dynavolt Tower deck at this point. Fevered Visions should be 4x in the sideboard and come in against any deck that has difficulty playing more than one spell per turn (Control decks, Emerge, UW Flash). Against Control decks, if you're looking for something to pull out for the Fevered Visions, there's an easy choice. Cathartic Reunion (or Tormenting Voice). These are dangerous cards to play against decks with counter magic.
I got 2nd at game day with UR Dynavolt Control, but I've been making a few changes and tweaks to various lists to try and improve my game against my meta, which is mostly Mardu Smotpers, URx Control (Grixis or Jeskai) and Coco-less Bant (playing 4 Tamiyo, Field Researcher).
I know the preferred beater for this deck has been Thing in the Ice, but Niblis just takes over a game so quickly - if UW flash tries to throw blockers up, I can freeze them. As long as my opponent has anything they want to attack with, they can't as long as I cast 1 spell per turn. It also dodges a good deal of damage-based removal thanks to prowess. Perpetual Timepiece os mostly to combat the control decks by having better reach than they do, and also to recycle countered or framgnetize'd towers.
Thoughts?
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Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
I Have been doing very well with the following build, through FNMs, top 8 in my local gameday, and other various events. After the deck i will go over my card selections.
Ok so in the current meta I believe the full play sets of Galvanic Bombardment and Harnessed Lightning is required do to very low to the ground Aggro Decks. I also prefer in all my controlling Ux decks to run the full 4 anticipate and glimmer to be able to hold up counter magic and have plays End of opponent's turn.
3/3 split thing tower- I was running 4 tower no thing, but many times would get ruined by amalgam based decks since al wipers and removal were bad and at times drawing 3rd+ tower is very bad. So I added thing so that I can trigger last counter on opponents end step and return to their hand all of their creatures they want in their graveyards and swing for quite a bit while they have to replay the hard way slower creatures.
8 Total Counterspells- A lot of control and combo decks in my local meta, and with filter gives me the numbers I need to be able consistently interact favorably with opponent. 3/3 scatter void split due to exile can be very relevant versus many cards in meta, and late game the awaken on scatter is also very relevant. Negate seems to have targets game one of every match due to even aggro decks running vehicles and the like.
Chandra- Went with flamecaller over torch due to the fact it closes out games much quicker and the board wipe is relevant. I like torch in my more tempo builds rather than control.
Deadlock trap- I think this is one of the more under rated cards in the format. With plenty of energy producers we can stall opponents biggest threat or planeswalker (which are heavily used in meta.) Also against pummeler decks if they cast pump gives us a chance to tap down then with defense we can respond with kill spell.
Sphinx in the SB for a trump versus the wide amount of u based control decks, and rest of sideboard is pretty self explanatory...ony other thing I would have liked to include would have been ceremonious rejection but just barely got cut, if meta shift they can easily find a home back in the 75.
@Raihen- I have played a lot of thermo-thing decks that i have full copies of flow, temper and collective defiance. I wanted to have a more control heavy deck, which is when i started going down the rabbit hole you see. I can see how take inventory is a good card but it doesn't fit my play style as much, if it fits yours that's fine, but anticipate allowing me to hold up counters (which i am much heavier on than most builds). Between tower, thing, chandra and fumarole, when i want to start turning the corner I have the option available to me. Deadlock trap is a sort of catch all/emergencey back up that lets me deal with threats opponents may have been able to squeeze out. I am not saying this is the absolute best version for everyone but it suites my play style and has very few weak points below are a few other versions I have tried, if anyone wants more details on a particular build feel free.
Aggro Thermo/stormchaser- used thermo alchemist and storm chaser mage, with conjuction of cheap cantrips like spark of creativity, renegade tactics etc.... to have a storm esque turn and win .
tempo- with thermo, thing and all the usual ( bare bones) 4 tmepers, 4 incendiary, 4 collective def. etc...
energy tower build...pretty self explanatory and helped lead to the above deck.
As for your deck; It looks very solid as well. just moves a a little closer to tempo and away from pure control, which can also be very strong and if meta shifted around here I could see dialing up something similar. although the more i shift towards tempo build the more I prefer to run Chandra, Torch over defiance over flamecaller, both are good in the deck but serve different roles per build. Good luck on the list!
So here is my latest version of ur control; I took out the towers and replaced with Alchemist. I love the tower but three cmc is a big deal since it gets spell quelled on the draw and comes down on turns I want to hold up scatter or shatter. I know alchemist is much easier to remove but it seems to be doing good in cocktrice. Since there is less energy floating around I salt had to remove deadlock trap, I still think it's a great card but without consistent energy is too high variance. I also went down two glimmer for 2 Summary dismissal since it does a lot in current meta. This may not be the build for everyone but it fits my play style the best and seems very competitive.
So here is my latest version of ur control; I took out the towers and replaced with Alchemist. I love the tower but three cmc is a big deal since it gets spell quelled on the draw and comes down on turns I want to hold up scatter or shatter.
As someone who faced a bunch of UW flash and Bant Spirits the past two weeks, I can say with pretty fair conviction that Alchemist is still far too slow to impact that deck, and tower is a card that actually allows you to win the game. Landing it turn 3 is nice but obviously on the draw against spirits you hold up and wait to do it with counter/removal backup. This is a control deck, and in a control mirror it's all about who can make the other blink first. Force them to quell something else, then drop your towers - or bait their queller with a tower and then blow up the queller. There's plenty of ways to make it work - horribly awry is probably the best straight answer.
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Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
I've found that radiant flames for 3 damage is trivial in this deck thanks to aether hub and no one playing non-basic land hate.
I like the idea of tears of valakut in the board, but the deck I'd bring it in against (UWx spirits) has all the outs to it. If it's just to kill smopters I'd rather throw a welding sparks or galvanic bombardment at it.
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Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
I love Incendiary Flow in the maindeck, mostly because it can hit players and gives us that last bit of reach that Galvanic Bombardment or Welding Sparks can't accomplish.
Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
The problem with going heavy on counterspells is UWx flash just goes over the top and also has counter backup - they will win the counter war and now you don't have a way to remove the threat if they tap out.
Also not playing dynavolt tower is insane, if it resolves it can force your opponent to respond and play things at times that are inopportune for them.
Honestly, I love this deck. I think it's great. But as long as UW Flash is in the format, this deck will go nowhere because they do everything we can, except better.
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Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
This is a deck I've been testing to counter-act all of the Vehicle-Aggro and/or Smuggler's Copters decks at my LGS' FNM.
Through somewhat thorough testing, this deck has exceeded my expectations. Initially, it was made just to hate RW-Vehicles. I found that it performs superbly well against most aggro decks. It also is a great matchup against GB Delirium (I've had good success anyway). I haven't been able to test against the Aetherworks Reservoir decks, but I like my matchups after sideboarding.
2 Saheeli Rai
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Creatures
4 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
2 Aether Theorist
4 Thriving Turtle
1 Combustible Gearhulk
1 Torrential Gearhulk
Sorceries
2 Crush of Tentacles
4 Cathartic Reunion
2 Anticipate
4 Galvanic Bombardment
4 Harnessed Lightning
4 Fiery Temper
Artifacts
1 Perpetual Timepiece
Lands
4 Wandering Fumarole
4 Spirebluff Canal
7 Island
8 Mountain
2 Jori En, Ruin Diver
4 Ceremonious Rejection
3 Negate
1 Combustible Gearhulk
1 Torrential Gearhulk
2 Revolutionary Rebuff
2 Elder Deep-Fiend
Planeswalkers:
The idea is to just scry away, looking for the cards you need. Saheeli is really only needed for her +1 and -2 abilities. Though, if you can -7, there are cards to hit. Chandra is absolutely insane in this deck. Being able to shock or ramp every turn is not to be trifled with. And, for big fatties, you can minus Chandra as well as mix in a burn spell to take them down. If in G1 they don't take either walker seriously, you bet they will game 2.
Creatures:
Thriving Turtle might be the best 1 drop creature in the format - definitely for blue. It mucks up the ground with its 0/3 body, gives you 2 energy that can be used for a +1/+1 counter, scrying or Harnessed Lightning. It slows games down to a crawl (pun somewhat intended). Aether Theorist I like because it has the 1/3 body, 3 energy that works with Harnessed Lightning and most importanly, SCRYING. Being able to smooth out our draws is insanely important. The Gearhulks are pretty self explanatory. The curve on this deck is kinda weird, so I only have 1-of in the MD. Searchable off of Saheeli's ult, and their ETBs can be very powerful. And finally, Goblin Dark-Dwellers. It can hit all of the utility spells in the deck, as well as the burn. Remember that -2 on Saheeli on your Dark-Dwellers causes its ETB to trigger again.
Sorceries:
Draw Cards. Wipe the board. Don't be scared of discarding with Cathartic Reunion. Dark-Dwellers allows most spells to still be cast. And, Perpetual Timepiece is going to allow you to shuffle your yard back into your library. Cathartic Reunion is amazing.
Instants:
Burn baby, burn! Fiery Temper is best when madness'd off of Cathartic Reunion. I've used Cathartic Reunion to put a Galvanic Bombardment in the yard to save for bigger creatures for later. A couple Anticipates allows you to find some cards, too
Artifacts:
The, "get me out of jail free" card of the deck. It allows you to shuffle your graveyard into your deck. Also copyable off of Saheeli, so don't pitch it if you can copy it!
Sideboard:
Basically, this board is made for control style matchups, as well as Aetherworks Reservoir. Its a WIP, and I'm open to any ideas.
I've played this dozens of times, and while I think it's very good, its also very fun!
Let's start with the top 8 finisher, by Pierre Dagen:
http://decks.tcgplayer.com/magic/standard/pierre-dagen/u-r-spells/1270884
1 Highland Lake
6 Island
6 Mountain
4 Spirebluff Canal
4 Wandering Fumarole
1 Torrential Gearhulk
4 Anticipate
4 Dynavolt Tower
4 Fiery Temper
3 Galvanic Bombardment
2 Glimmer of Genius
4 Harnessed Lightning
4 Lightning Axe
4 Take Inventory
3 Tormenting Voice
3 Void Shatter
2 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Galvanic Bombardment
1 Glimmer of Genius
2 Negate
4 Niblis of Frost
4 Thing in the Ice
1 Torrential Gearhulk
3 Aether Hub
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
6 Island
5 Mountain
4 Spirebluff Canal
4 Wandering Fumarole
//Instants & Sorceries
3 Anticipate
2 Cathartic Reunion
3 Fiery Temper
3 Galvanic Bombardment
2 Glimmer of Genius
4 Harnessed Lightning
3 Incendiary Flow
2 Lightning Axe
2 Negate
4 Take Inventory
3 Void Shatter
4 Dynavolt Tower
//Creatures
2 Torrential Gearhulk
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Dispel
3 Fevered Visions
2 Niblis of Frost
4 Thing in the Ice
2 Weaver of Lightning[
This is what I'll be bringing to FNM & Game Day this week. I took a big dose of Pierre's list and added a little more burn instead of card draw. I'm still pretty new to standard, having only played a little bit of Thermo-thing pre-rotation. I'm not 100% sure what to expect in my meta, but I get the feeling I'll be facing a solid amount of various iterations of the PT top 8 at a minimum.
UWAzorius ControlUW
GWRBKiki-ChordGWRB
Legacy Decks
WDeath and TaxesW
Pauper Decks
UDelverU
WURBGAffinityWURBG
GBTortexGB
Here's what I'm looking at testing with the next three days.
4x Island
8x Mountain
4x Spirebluff Canal
4x Wandering Fumarole
4x Thing in the Ice
1x Torrential Gearhulk
4x Fiery Temper
4x Galvanic Bombardment
2x Glimmer of Genius
4x Harnessed Lightning
2x Lightning Axe
4x Cathartic Reunion
1x Collective Defiance
2x Incendiary Flow
4x Take Inventory
3x Ceremonious Rejection
4x Fevered Visions
3x Kozilek's Return
4x Negate
1x Perpetual Timepiece
Against Control, I basically bring in everything except the 3x Kozilek's Return. It's a bit of a gamble going in so hard against it, but I'm betting on it being a big player after PT. I would definitely take out the 4x Cathartic Reunion against counter magic. I think RW Vehicles will still be a major player, and against that deck I have access to Ceremonious Rejection and Negate. Depending on the other creatures in the deck, Kozilek's Return can make an appearance as well. For Aetherworks Marvel decks (which I don't expect to see a lot of, it didn't do well at PT), basically the same way I would board against control. Keep the artifact from landing on the battlefield and you should be okay. Importantly, Ceremonious Rejection will also take care of Emrakul or Ulamog being cast normally. For RG Pummeler, I'd like to bring in Kozilek's Return and the 4 Negates.
In our testing, Pierre's list is great at not losing, but has a lot of trouble with actually winning. When you draw the right cards (a couple towers, a couple counterspells, plus any removal needed) this deck is very good. If you draw the wrong half of your deck, you spin tires for 10 or 12 turns and lose. When that happens, it feels like a ramp deck that can't stop drawing ramp spells and lands. That's been our testing and we're not sure where to go with it. Seems to have a particularly poor matchup against aetherworks due to basically being counterspell or bust, and not being able to burn them out before they just clobber you. We really like the deck and she'll probably be stuck playing it, at least for this weekend, so if anybody finds any improvements let us know.
Also, I definitely have no problem acknowledging that he didn't go 8-2 at the PT by mistake, and the deck is at least decent. It still feels really lethargic and inconsistent to us though.
The deck is good but it's also very punishing to players that make mistakes. I don't think I have played a game yet with this deck where I haven't missed at least one trigger. For example, it's easy to have a situation where you have Dynavolt Tower or Thing in the Ice on the battlefield, play Glimmer of Genius at the opponent's end of turn, make note of the triggers that go on the stack, have your opponent respond with Negate or whatever, play your own Negate, and then fail to remember the triggers for your Negate. I also had one game where I was so caught up in discarding a pair of Fiery Temper to Cathartic Reunion that I literally forgot to draw the three cards when it was over with.
I'm playing this at GP this weekend. I just need practice. Today and tomorrow nights for that.
2 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
4 Torrential Gearhulk
4 Glimmer of Genius
4 Void Shatter
2 Kozilek's Return
4 Harnessed Lightning
2 Anticipate
2 Negate
1 Revolutionary Rebuff
4 Galvanic Bombardment
2 Deadlock Trap
1 Aether Meltdown
8 Island
6 Mountain
4 Wandering Fumarole
1 Highland Lake
4 Spirebluff Canal
4 Aether Hub
1 Negate
1 Aether Meltdown
1 Metallurgic Summonings
2 Summary Dismissal
2 Ceremonious Rejection
3 Weaver of Lightning
4 Hanweir Garrison
I seen a few other decks with Hanweir Garrison in the sideboard, any idea what matches you would bring these in? control?
FNM results were 0-2-2. People were playing slow so most matches went to time, Match 1 was against 5 colour panharmonicon good stuff which I got game one off the back of two towers, game 2 he just out valued me and game 3 went to turns with him gaining 6 life from every filligree familar but was a draw. Match 2 was Esper Walkers/Control. Game 1, 2 towers, gg. Game 2 I couldn't stick a threat, visions off the board was useful, but never stuck around long enough to do anything. Game 3 I almost had, but we went to turns, Sorin flipped an Emrakul and I ended up being two points of burn short after he ultimated sorin. Game 3 Mardu reanimator, turn 4 geahulk game 1, got rid of it, jam another. GG. Game 2 visions came in and between it, Thing and Niblis I got it, but this game was stupidly slow on his end so we never got a game 3. Match 4 landed a turn 3 tower, felt good, opponent untapped, played a marvel and hit emrakul. Game 2 marvel gets fought over and i cop 2 dispels trying to fight over it. T4 Emmy, Turn 5 Ulamog...yep.
UWAzorius ControlUW
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Legacy Decks
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UDelverU
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GBTortexGB
I'm going to try leaving in just the set of Harnessed Lightning. The other six cards are coming out. I'll play a full set of Incendiary Flow (this is also a smart card choice because of the increased presence in Prized Amalgam), instead of just two. Anticipate isn't a burn spell, but it helps me dig to them, so I may try a playset of those for the other four cards.
I want to move Thing in the Ice to the sideboard. It's a great card, but they almost always have removal for it and it's the only creature in the deck aside from the one gearhulk that has other advantages. I'd rather play 0 creatures in game one in order to make their removal package useless, then bring them in game 2 after the removal has been taken out. So I'm looking at replacing them with additional burn. At this point, options are slim. I'm mainly looking at Geistblast and Chandra's Pyrohelix. Also I'm open to playing 1 more Collective Defiance.
With this much cheap card draw, I'm actually going to pull out the Glimmer of Genius. It's an excellent card but I want the card draw spells to be cheap so I can cast what I draw (and rack up faster energy via Dynavolt Tower). I'm moving some of the Negates to the main deck, because Negate is good against virtually every deck in the format right now. Creature-based aggro decks are typically playing Smuggler's Copter, and RG Aggro plays nasty pump spells.
I'm gonna try this during the next week:
4x Island
8x Mountain
4x Spirebluff Canal
4x Wandering Fumarole
1x Torrential Gearhulk
4x Dynavolt Tower
4x Anticipate
2x Chandra's Pyrohelix
4x Fiery Temper
1x Geistblast
4x Harnessed Lightning
2x Negate
4x Cathartic Reunion
2x Collective Defiance
4x Incendiary Flow
4x Take Inventory
1x Ceremonious Rejection
4x Fevered Visions
2x Negate
2x Radiant Flames
2x Summary Dismissal
4x Thing in the Ice
4x Thermo-Alchemist
4x Thing in the Ice
Removal/Burn
3x Harnessed Lightning
4x Incendiary Flow
4x Fiery Temper
4x Collective Defiance
2x Lightning Axe
Planeswalkers
1x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Other spells
4x Dynavolt Tower
4x Tormenting Voice
2x Dispel
2x Unsubstantiate
4x Highland Lake
4x Spirebluff Canal
2x Aether Hub
2x Wandering Fumarole
1x Geier Reach Sanitarium
5x Mountain
4x Island
4x Fevered Visions
4x Galvanic Bombardment
2x Bedlam Reveler
1x Torrential Gearhulk
4x ??
I can't recall the last 4 sideboard cards right now but I don't recall using them in any matchups. I went 2-1, winning against two G/W Humans lists and losing 2-1 against B/W control. When I lost against B/W control, the first time I missed two Thermo-Alchemist triggers either of which would have gotten me the win and the game after that I had to mulligan to 5 and never really recovered. Chandra, Torch of Defiance was a workhorse for me the two times I got to cast her. I mostly used her +1: get RR to cast extra spells which kept the board clear, got me more cards, removed Ice counters from Thing in the Ice and generated energy for Dynavolt Tower.
This version of the deck feels really strong against aggro decks. I'd have to do more testing against midrange and control but those also seem beatable. I'm still on the fence which deck I'll play going forward between this or G/R Energy but with the right adjustments the deck seems like it could work well.
I'll be taking almost the same build but will add more direct to player targeting spells. Might try Metallugic Summonings on the side against w/x since mostly side in fragmentize for dynavault
Still giving this the whole nov. I don't hit slamdunk with it but currently enjoying arsoning their creatures
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In the current meta, I think Fevered Visions is mainly good against control decks, but actively bad against most of the aggro decks that make up a large part of the format. Dynavolt Tower on the other hand does work against all types of decks.
As for the floor on MD instants and sorceries, there's a lot of approaches to that question.
Personally, I think the deck wants around 22 land and I think the maindeck can support about 8 creatures for just 4 Towers, leaving 26 slots for instants and sorceries.
I think you want the maximum amount of burn spells that can go to the face (4x Incendiary flow and 4x Fiery Temper) because if you need to rely on just Dynavolt Tower you're gonna need to cast 18 other spells *after* casting the Tower to deal enough damage to win (20+ damage needed to win, meaning 7 activations for 21 damage, meaning 7 x 5 = 35 energy, meaning 36/2 = 18 spells).
Assuming a hand with 3 lands, Dynavolt Tower, 3 spells and *none of those* spells cast before the Tower, that would mean drawing and casting 15 more spells. Surviving on just removal and counterspells for 15 turns, with no creatures or planeswalkers, seems a bit optimistic to me.
4 Aether Hub
3 Spirebluff Canal
4 Wandering Fumarole
1 Highland Lake
2 Geier Reach Sanitarium
5 Island
5 Mountain
Creatures (2)
1 Niblis of Frost
1 Torrential Gearhulk
4 Dynavolt Tower
Instants & Sorceries (29)
4 Take Inventory
3 Incendiary Flow
3 Lightning Axe
4 Anticipate
4 Harnessed Lightning
3 Negate
4 Void Shatter
4 Fiery Temper
1 Chandra, Flamecaller
1 Torrential Gearhulk
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Collective Defiance
2 Glimmer of Genius
2 Perpetual Timepiece
3 Niblis of Frost
3 Radiant Flames
I know the preferred beater for this deck has been Thing in the Ice, but Niblis just takes over a game so quickly - if UW flash tries to throw blockers up, I can freeze them. As long as my opponent has anything they want to attack with, they can't as long as I cast 1 spell per turn. It also dodges a good deal of damage-based removal thanks to prowess. Perpetual Timepiece os mostly to combat the control decks by having better reach than they do, and also to recycle countered or framgnetize'd towers.
Thoughts?
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
3 Thing in the Ice
Instants 24
4 Galvanic Bombardment
4 Harnessed Lightning
4 Anticipate
2 Negate
3 Void Shatter
3 Scatter to the Winds
4 Glimmer of Genius
Planeswalkers 3
2 Chandra, Flamecaller
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
3 Dynavolt Tower
2 Deadlock Trap
Lands 25
4 Spirebluff Canal
4 Wandering Fumarole
4 Aether Hub
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
8 Island
4 Mountain
3 Fevered Visions
3 Radiant Flames
3 Weaver of Lightning
2 Summary Dismissal
2 negate
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1 Sphinx of the Final Word
Ok so in the current meta I believe the full play sets of Galvanic Bombardment and Harnessed Lightning is required do to very low to the ground Aggro Decks. I also prefer in all my controlling Ux decks to run the full 4 anticipate and glimmer to be able to hold up counter magic and have plays End of opponent's turn.
3/3 split thing tower- I was running 4 tower no thing, but many times would get ruined by amalgam based decks since al wipers and removal were bad and at times drawing 3rd+ tower is very bad. So I added thing so that I can trigger last counter on opponents end step and return to their hand all of their creatures they want in their graveyards and swing for quite a bit while they have to replay the hard way slower creatures.
8 Total Counterspells- A lot of control and combo decks in my local meta, and with filter gives me the numbers I need to be able consistently interact favorably with opponent. 3/3 scatter void split due to exile can be very relevant versus many cards in meta, and late game the awaken on scatter is also very relevant. Negate seems to have targets game one of every match due to even aggro decks running vehicles and the like.
Chandra- Went with flamecaller over torch due to the fact it closes out games much quicker and the board wipe is relevant. I like torch in my more tempo builds rather than control.
Deadlock trap- I think this is one of the more under rated cards in the format. With plenty of energy producers we can stall opponents biggest threat or planeswalker (which are heavily used in meta.) Also against pummeler decks if they cast pump gives us a chance to tap down then with defense we can respond with kill spell.
Sphinx in the SB for a trump versus the wide amount of u based control decks, and rest of sideboard is pretty self explanatory...ony other thing I would have liked to include would have been ceremonious rejection but just barely got cut, if meta shift they can easily find a home back in the 75.
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RWGBurnGWR
Aggro Thermo/stormchaser- used thermo alchemist and storm chaser mage, with conjuction of cheap cantrips like spark of creativity, renegade tactics etc.... to have a storm esque turn and win .
tempo- with thermo, thing and all the usual ( bare bones) 4 tmepers, 4 incendiary, 4 collective def. etc...
energy tower build...pretty self explanatory and helped lead to the above deck.
As for your deck; It looks very solid as well. just moves a a little closer to tempo and away from pure control, which can also be very strong and if meta shifted around here I could see dialing up something similar. although the more i shift towards tempo build the more I prefer to run Chandra, Torch over defiance over flamecaller, both are good in the deck but serve different roles per build. Good luck on the list!
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RWGBurnGWR
4 thermo-alchemist
4 thing in the ice
Spells 27
4 galvanic bombardment
4 harnessed lightning
4 anticipate
2 negate
3 scatter to the winds
3 Void Shatter
2 glimmer of genius
2 Summary dismissal
1 jace, Unraveler of Secrets
2 Chandra, Flamecaller
4 aether hub
4 spirebluff canal
4 wandering fumarole
1 geier reach sanitarium
8 Island
4 Mountain
3 weaver of lightning
3 fevered visions
2 negate
2 ceremonious rejection
2 kozilek's return
1 jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1 Dispel
1 Sphinx of the Final Word
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RWGBurnGWR
As someone who faced a bunch of UW flash and Bant Spirits the past two weeks, I can say with pretty fair conviction that Alchemist is still far too slow to impact that deck, and tower is a card that actually allows you to win the game. Landing it turn 3 is nice but obviously on the draw against spirits you hold up and wait to do it with counter/removal backup. This is a control deck, and in a control mirror it's all about who can make the other blink first. Force them to quell something else, then drop your towers - or bait their queller with a tower and then blow up the queller. There's plenty of ways to make it work - horribly awry is probably the best straight answer.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
I like the idea of tears of valakut in the board, but the deck I'd bring it in against (UWx spirits) has all the outs to it. If it's just to kill smopters I'd rather throw a welding sparks or galvanic bombardment at it.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
I've also been thinking about testing a black splash for Transgress the Mind, Unlicensed Disintegration, and potentially Lost Legacy or Painful Truths as SB options.
Any thoughts?
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Also not playing dynavolt tower is insane, if it resolves it can force your opponent to respond and play things at times that are inopportune for them.
Honestly, I love this deck. I think it's great. But as long as UW Flash is in the format, this deck will go nowhere because they do everything we can, except better.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP