I could understand the call on this if the opponent didn't play a 1st main phase card that directly interacted with the vehicle on the board. But man, it was so blatantly obvious what he was trying to do that it's embarrassing for the game that they didn't allow this non english speaking player to DO what he WANTED to do, rather that what his opponent forced him to do.
IT's worse because that main phase creature even has a 'Beginning of Combat' trigger, and if anyone honestly believes that he didn't know there was a Weldfast trigger, they are delusional.
Iirc He motions to the trigger happening and then tries to crew after asking if they can go to combat. It's clear he was asking to go to the beginning of combat. Putting the trigger on the stack targeting a vehicle you are crewing in response is out of order sequencing for sure, since the vehicle needs to be crewed prior to the trigger being put on the stack. However, judge should have made him choose a legal target for the trigger and then allowed him to crew after.
This whole debate about whether "combat?" in this context means pass to attacks phase is frankly ridiculous given how many things trigger at the beginning of combat, not to mention activations of manlands and vehicles. Maybe 2-3 years ago, asking "Combat?" implied a move to attackers, but the DCI really should get with the times here.
Iirc He motions to the trigger happening and then tries to crew after asking if they can go to combat. It's clear he was asking to go to the beginning of combat. Putting the trigger on the stack targeting a vehicle you are crewing in response is out of order sequencing for sure, since the vehicle needs to be crewed prior to the trigger being put on the stack. However, judge should have made him choose a legal target for the trigger and then allowed him to crew after.
This whole debate about whether "combat?" in this context means pass to attacks phase is frankly ridiculous given how many things trigger at the beginning of combat, not to mention activations of manlands and vehicles. Maybe 2-3 years ago, asking "Combat?" implied a move to attackers, but the DCI really should get with the times here.
the current rules are not perfect, but the alternative of having "combat?" mean going to the beginning of combat is even worse, because it will STILL allow the AP to trick the NAP into making plays in the wrong phase. Maybe these rules are not optimal for standard, but there is still other formats to consider, and the rules have to be the same for each of them.
I have absolutely no desire to keep perfect track of what kind of language my opponent is using. Imagine we changed to the rules and then in a game my opponent first uses the phrase "go to attacks?" and then changes it to "go to combat?" during one turn. it would be so easy to slip up here and cast spells / activate abilities during the AP's mainphase when you meant to do so during the beginning of combat (especially since even in regular rel and casual play this phrase is used almost always as a sign that the AP is ready to move to declare attackers unless NAP does something - it's a strong convention). the current rules perfectly prevent this.
my question is: why don't you crew your vehicles in the mainphase? most of the problems with this shortcut arise when the AP tries to be clever and lure the NAP into doing stuff at an unprofitable time.
as for situations when there are triggers involved - this is easy. just announce your triggers and we have no problem. sure, you have to know how the shortcut works, but once you know it it becomes impossible to abuse the other player with your choice of words.
EDIT: if it wasn't obvious to everyone already, all this applies to comp REL only.
Normally crewing in first main would be preferable, but in this case the beginning of combat trigger from one creature was needed to make another creature big enough to crew the vehicle optimally.
Normally crewing in first main would be preferable, but in this case the beginning of combat trigger from one creature was needed to make another creature big enough to crew the vehicle optimally.
this wasn't the case AFAIK, but even if it was, what I said applies: announce your triggers before you ask your opponent to go to attackers. as long as you specify what you are doing there is no problem.
I so hope that grixis Improvise does well. That's the deck that I've been trying to build this season and have been having some moderate success with the schematics and puzzleknot build. It sounds like the guys running the deck just said "who cares about color, stick it all in!"
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
One big emphasis for this Pro Tour is teams. Teammates playing each other in the early rounds seems counter-intuitive. Does it make sense to integrate teams in the swiss pairings?
I woke up at 7am to check out standard, it was G/B Vs Mardu Vehicles. I went to teach some lessons, and came back to watch the same match? LOL Diversity, this is yet another BS standard. G/B Counters is consistently amazing and Mardu Vehicles is just as good. At least Saheeli combo got pegged down but it's still dismissal for format diversity.
Personally think that G/B is too good, it's only bad match up is U/B control which isn't exactly good atm. Why can't U/B and Grixis get value creatures and loads of mythics to have on curve?
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Standard Arena: Eh? Gruul or Die
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
I woke up at 7am to check out standard, it was G/B Vs Mardu Vehicles. I went to teach some lessons, and came back to watch the same match? LOL Diversity, this is yet another BS standard. G/B Counters is consistently amazing and Mardu Vehicles is just as good. At least Saheeli combo got pegged down but it's still dismissal for format diversity.
Personally think that G/B is too good, it's only bad match up is U/B control which isn't exactly good atm. Why can't U/B and Grixis get value creatures and loads of mythics to have on curve?
wait, a week ago Jeskai was the best deck wasn't it? this statement seems a little hasty to me.
PT is lame, but still new sets are presenting sweet and interesting cards, i mean, when playing at a non highly competitive level expertise cards, planar bridge, panharmonicon, lead characters (baral, sram, etc), exquisite archangel, paradox engine and lots of other cards are sooo much fun. Competitive standard is lame, nothing new, but the design team is slipping some really fun cards.
I think it's safe to say in a return to Kaladesh/vehicles showing up in another set. Any vehicles we see will be completely nerfed. I don't think we'll ever see crew one on anything higher than a two power vehicle
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This whole debate about whether "combat?" in this context means pass to attacks phase is frankly ridiculous given how many things trigger at the beginning of combat, not to mention activations of manlands and vehicles. Maybe 2-3 years ago, asking "Combat?" implied a move to attackers, but the DCI really should get with the times here.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
Theros Myth Origins Part 1 WUBRG Part 2 GRBUW Born of the Gods
Beta Client Tutorial
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the current rules are not perfect, but the alternative of having "combat?" mean going to the beginning of combat is even worse, because it will STILL allow the AP to trick the NAP into making plays in the wrong phase. Maybe these rules are not optimal for standard, but there is still other formats to consider, and the rules have to be the same for each of them.
I have absolutely no desire to keep perfect track of what kind of language my opponent is using. Imagine we changed to the rules and then in a game my opponent first uses the phrase "go to attacks?" and then changes it to "go to combat?" during one turn. it would be so easy to slip up here and cast spells / activate abilities during the AP's mainphase when you meant to do so during the beginning of combat (especially since even in regular rel and casual play this phrase is used almost always as a sign that the AP is ready to move to declare attackers unless NAP does something - it's a strong convention). the current rules perfectly prevent this.
my question is: why don't you crew your vehicles in the mainphase? most of the problems with this shortcut arise when the AP tries to be clever and lure the NAP into doing stuff at an unprofitable time.
as for situations when there are triggers involved - this is easy. just announce your triggers and we have no problem. sure, you have to know how the shortcut works, but once you know it it becomes impossible to abuse the other player with your choice of words.
EDIT: if it wasn't obvious to everyone already, all this applies to comp REL only.
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RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
this wasn't the case AFAIK, but even if it was, what I said applies: announce your triggers before you ask your opponent to go to attackers. as long as you specify what you are doing there is no problem.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
Personally think that G/B is too good, it's only bad match up is U/B control which isn't exactly good atm. Why can't U/B and Grixis get value creatures and loads of mythics to have on curve?
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
wait, a week ago Jeskai was the best deck wasn't it? this statement seems a little hasty to me.
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What other matches did we see? Nothing new, it's sad in a way, I remember other PT being much better. I do think it's a huge problem for standard.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
Woo!
Spirits
Youtube Channel