SuperSeed, why did you drop Bloodrage Brawler? I can see why a full playset would get awkward, but why not a 2 + 2 split with Furyblade Vampire? It seems like a better topdeck and maybe even a better turn 3 play if you have a Fiery Temper in hand? Not saying you're wrong or anything like that, you just haven't mentioned anything about the card and it's one of the most powerful looking red creatures from the new set.
Ok so the problem I have with Bloodrage brawler is that it doesn't play well in the shell as shown by my testing. The reasons are as follows:
- You don't really want to be top decking anything that doesn't have haste, some kind of evasiveness or reach (burn) late game.
- It plays poorly with a low land count due to need 3 cmc to gain value from discarding a vampire (1 drop) or fiery temper.
- It reduces the vampire synergy and I've found that 12 is a sweet spot for a deck this aggressive.
Furyblade Vampire allows:
- Synergy in both Vampires and Discard (basically 2 synergies in 1 card)
- Evasiveness through trample which in turn makes Consuming Fervor exponentially better.
- Opportunistic discard thus allowing for less card disadvantage when played on turn 2.
- Late game land floor allows for discard to trigger both itself and Flameblade Adepts on the field.
Hope this explanation helps.
i always like Outnumber as a card in these decks, to take out big annoying blockers, but so many of Red's creatures are so naturally evasive right now it's probably better in the side with a direct burn spell like Shock in the main
Fiery temper is strictly better than shock in this shell and Magma spray is strictly better out of board due to Scrapheap scrounger and the new 2/1 mummy.
i can see Temper being as good as Shock because it gives the deck reach but I'm not sold on Magma Spray. Mostly Spray's for Scrounger but decks like this should be able to get under Mardu and race them effectively, Scrounger can't even block so it shouldn't be a priority to remove most of the time
i can see Temper being as good as Shock because it gives the deck reach but I'm not sold on Magma Spray. Mostly Spray's for Scrounger but decks like this should be able to get under Mardu and race them effectively, Scrounger can't even block so it shouldn't be a priority to remove most of the time
It's not even for Mardu. I had the same mentality and originally had shocks in the sb. Main deck will beat mardu vehicles a majority of the time as is.
I always go for creatures with haste and then burn spells, even if they are clunky like incendiary flow or weak like shock. Turn 4 we are gonna be outclassed, so we gotta lob burn spells to the dome. Even a fiery temper for 3 mana is better than a Hazoret that gets blocked.
Hello party people, just getting back into standard after playing Thermo-Burn last year then going on a year hiatus/selling out. I started back recently by collecting ALL the R/B madness cards and 4 Hazorets because I wanted to go that route but was honestly having trouble doing better than 3-2 on modo leagues. I bit the bullet and said I was going to just use the 'GOOD' red/black cards and this thread (even though a little of the info is outdated) has helped me shape my deck. Don't let this thread die!
Dread Wanderer is very good versus USA or UR control, or just any deck that durdles a little bit. Given those decks aren't a HUGE part of the metagame (about 11% on modo leagues, though I seem to play 2-3 UR every 5 game league) but I played two 5-game matches against the top stock USA list in paper last night and 4-1'd both times. Between Dread Wanderer and Scrapheap they have no where near enough magma sprays to stop your recursion. In my build I really like the extra one drops and nothing actually feels better than putting a 2/1 into play turn 1. I need to test him more versus stuff like Mardu vehciles but hell that's what modo is for. The game that USA won involved 2 dread wanderers and a scrapheap all getting magma sprayed and him going through 2 sweltering suns to clean up my Pias, Weldfasts and Hanweir Garrison.
Speaking of Garrison, bringing in 2 out of the board against control (in my various iterations of this deck in modo leagues over the past two weeks) has been WONDERFUL. They can't spray it and if they don't counter it you can usually rack up 2 turns of damage output. All your one early drops eat up most of their spot removal so you force a wrath, which is a good thing.
Secondly, I think 2-3 Glorybringers are really a mid-range direction we want to be going. Upping the mana to 24 and having 2 Chandra/3 Glorybringers seems powerful.
Now a major question I want to ask every RB mage in this thread.. we currently have a plethora of discard (harsh scrutiny, transgress so on) and a lot of search-library-get-all cards (lost legacy, disposses etc.) so which do you actually feel NEED to be in our boards?
Now a major question I want to ask every RB mage in this thread.. we currently have a plethora of discard (harsh scrutiny, transgress so on) and a lot of search-library-get-all cards (lost legacy, disposses etc.) so which do you actually feel NEED to be in our boards?
Dispossess is amazing against Marvel, which is otherwise almost unwinnable. It also hits Gearhulks. I think two or three are mandatory in the sideboard.
Lay Bare the Heart is a reliable semi-value discard spell, but can't hit Marvel or Ishkanah. Transgress whiffs more often but hits all the cards that really wreck us. I'd say a 3/1 Transgress/Lay Bare split is about right.
I've never been impressed with Lost Legacy. It's guaranteed card disadvantage and misses a lot of haymakers. It only makes sense to me if some deck gets big that Lost Legacy can wreck.
I always go for creatures with haste and then burn spells, even if they are clunky like incendiary flow or weak like shock. Turn 4 we are gonna be outclassed, so we gotta lob burn spells to the dome. Even a fiery temper for 3 mana is better than a Hazoret that gets blocked.
Well first of all, turn 4 is where they're usually dead. The reality is Reckless Bushwacker is the best card in the deck. Incendiary Flow might be main deck material though, I've been toying with the idea of slotting it in.
I went 3-1 tonight losing to Temur Marvel. Harder matchup than I anticipated due to the lifegain and tons of red removal. Definitely could have won the match though, not unwinnable by any means.
Lost Legacy picks out Ulamog from Marvel decks, most of them can survive with getting thier marvels taken out. Take out the threat, not the potential whiff enabler.
R/B falls flat to Ulamog, and only Ulamog, like most decks. Everything else is not an issue and can blast though it. Can also hit New Perspectives or Approach of the Second Sun. Combo is a tough match up. Transgress the Mind is a more versatile card vs. Marvel imho and a better SB choice.
Hazoret while very powerful can be rather clunky sometimes (and still dies to Grasp), wouldn't a 2/2 split with Bloodhall Priest be better ?
(or even going for the full 4x Priests and moving Hazoret to the SB over Yahenni's Expertise) Bloodhall Priest is weaker but can be "flashed in" at instant speed with Key, isn't legendary so multiple copies can be played and can deal extra damage without paying mana and discarding.
I wonder if a card like Magmatic Chasm (maybe from the SB) can be good in this deck to get through stalled boards
or something like Wrangle/Kari Zev's Expertise to remove a blocker and add an attacker.
Insult // Injury also seems like a good option to double damage and close out games quicker.
Hazoret while very powerful can be rather clunky sometimes (and still dies to Grasp), wouldn't a 2/2 split with Bloodhall Priest be better ?
(or even going for the full 4x Priests and moving Hazoret to the SB over Yahenni's Expertise) Bloodhall Priest is weaker but can be "flashed in" at instant speed with Key, isn't legendary so multiple copies can be played and can deal extra damage without paying mana and discarding.
I wonder if a card like Magmatic Chasm (maybe from the SB) can be good in this deck to get through stalled boards
or something like Wrangle/Kari Zev's Expertise to remove a blocker and add an attacker.
Insult // Injury also seems like a good option to double damage and close out games quicker.
RB Control is opting for Lay Bare over Transgress as well. I havent played with list yet but Im going to assume this one specifically wants to rip blockers and/or removal.
On paper I prefer Hazoret over Priest. In a land of Chandra Flamecaller, the indestructible is nice. Flashing Priest in as a blocker seems the only reason Priests madness ability would be relevant as Hazoret's haste achieves the same goal of being able to attack immediately on your turn. I dont think Hazoret being Legendary hurts so much as it gives you cards to pitch to various spells when you have multiples. He also gives you another outlet to pitch madness cards.
I am mostly a control player(playing ur/grixis/jeskai control lately), but last fnm i have played this br deck and it was pretty good. However i have no experience at sidebording with this types of deck.
If i want to bring in disposses and lay bare the heart(for example against marvel or ur control) what should i side out?
Can someone explain briefly sideboard guide for matchups agains zombie, ur control, mardu vehicles.
I def made the switch to SaffronOlives build and tweaked it just a bit.
-3 Borderland Marauders for 3 Kari Zev. We can go wider and also menace is good.
-1 Incendiary Flow for 1 Invigorated Rampage
Ive seen a lot of debate over Built to Smash vs Consuming Fervor. I personally like the element of surprise with built to smash. We already cant avoid some 2-for-1 situations with the Cartouche. Not sure if the extra long term pump is worth the added risk of that. It already seems pretty easy to get 20 damage in 4 turns without that extra nudge.
Not sure of my sideboard yet but considering adding some Dual Shots for pesky servos & thopter tokens. Kari Zev's expertise cuz why kill their big dude when you take use it yourself. and Release the gremlins. if we gotta remove a troublesome artifact, might as well get a creature and continue to be aggressive.
True, Release is pretty mana intensive. Gonna grab some By Force's
I like the instant speed of Dual Shot the same way I prefer Built to Smash. Dual Shot can be used to clear out dudes in combat especially in response to a Whirler Virtuoso activation or two
The Marvel player will most likely be facing lethal when ulamog hits the board. I imagine they might nuke game ending creatures like ahn-crop crasher over nuking lands. The more I think about it, it seems threaten effects maybe aren't necessary at all. We just want to play fast and get around their creatures. If we can't burn it, just make it not able to block and win. Most of the sideboard options here beside dif situational burn spells like lightning axe, magma spray and dual shot/ Chandra's pyrohelix essentially slow the deck down. I went back and watched the videos and he never boards in more than 1 or 2 of the other cards. We really just want to always be faster than the other decks.
Ok so the problem I have with Bloodrage brawler is that it doesn't play well in the shell as shown by my testing. The reasons are as follows:
- You don't really want to be top decking anything that doesn't have haste, some kind of evasiveness or reach (burn) late game.
- It plays poorly with a low land count due to need 3 cmc to gain value from discarding a vampire (1 drop) or fiery temper.
- It reduces the vampire synergy and I've found that 12 is a sweet spot for a deck this aggressive.
Furyblade Vampire allows:
- Synergy in both Vampires and Discard (basically 2 synergies in 1 card)
- Evasiveness through trample which in turn makes Consuming Fervor exponentially better.
- Opportunistic discard thus allowing for less card disadvantage when played on turn 2.
- Late game land floor allows for discard to trigger both itself and Flameblade Adepts on the field.
Hope this explanation helps.
It's not even for Mardu. I had the same mentality and originally had shocks in the sb. Main deck will beat mardu vehicles a majority of the time as is.
Speaking of Garrison, bringing in 2 out of the board against control (in my various iterations of this deck in modo leagues over the past two weeks) has been WONDERFUL. They can't spray it and if they don't counter it you can usually rack up 2 turns of damage output. All your one early drops eat up most of their spot removal so you force a wrath, which is a good thing.
Secondly, I think 2-3 Glorybringers are really a mid-range direction we want to be going. Upping the mana to 24 and having 2 Chandra/3 Glorybringers seems powerful.
Now a major question I want to ask every RB mage in this thread.. we currently have a plethora of discard (harsh scrutiny, transgress so on) and a lot of search-library-get-all cards (lost legacy, disposses etc.) so which do you actually feel NEED to be in our boards?
Dispossess is amazing against Marvel, which is otherwise almost unwinnable. It also hits Gearhulks. I think two or three are mandatory in the sideboard.
Lay Bare the Heart is a reliable semi-value discard spell, but can't hit Marvel or Ishkanah. Transgress whiffs more often but hits all the cards that really wreck us. I'd say a 3/1 Transgress/Lay Bare split is about right.
I've never been impressed with Lost Legacy. It's guaranteed card disadvantage and misses a lot of haymakers. It only makes sense to me if some deck gets big that Lost Legacy can wreck.
Well first of all, turn 4 is where they're usually dead. The reality is Reckless Bushwacker is the best card in the deck. Incendiary Flow might be main deck material though, I've been toying with the idea of slotting it in.
I went 3-1 tonight losing to Temur Marvel. Harder matchup than I anticipated due to the lifegain and tons of red removal. Definitely could have won the match though, not unwinnable by any means.
R/B falls flat to Ulamog, and only Ulamog, like most decks. Everything else is not an issue and can blast though it. Can also hit New Perspectives or Approach of the Second Sun. Combo is a tough match up.
Transgress the Mind is a more versatile card vs. Marvel imho and a better SB choice.
3x Bomat Courier
3x Flameblade Adept
4x Scrapheap Scrounger
4x Dread Wanderer
4x Bloodrage Brawler
4x Hazoret the Fervent
Instant (8)
4x Fiery Temper
4x Unlicensed Disintegration
4x Key to the City
Sorcery (4)
4x Alms of the Vein
Lands (22)
4x Foreboding Ruins
4x Smoldering Marsh
7x Mountain
7x Swamp
4x Magma Spray
3x Dispossess
3x Lay Bare the Heart
2x Fatal Push
2x By Force
1x Yahenni's Expertise
The list looks pretty good though Lay Bare the Heart should probably be Transgress the Mind.
The 3/3 split between Bomat Courier and Flameblade Adept is interesting, how good is the latter anyway ?
Hazoret while very powerful can be rather clunky sometimes (and still dies to Grasp), wouldn't a 2/2 split with Bloodhall Priest be better ?
(or even going for the full 4x Priests and moving Hazoret to the SB over Yahenni's Expertise)
Bloodhall Priest is weaker but can be "flashed in" at instant speed with Key, isn't legendary so multiple copies can be played and can deal extra damage without paying mana and discarding.
I wonder if a card like Magmatic Chasm (maybe from the SB) can be good in this deck to get through stalled boards
or something like Wrangle/Kari Zev's Expertise to remove a blocker and add an attacker.
Insult // Injury also seems like a good option to double damage and close out games quicker.
On paper I prefer Hazoret over Priest. In a land of Chandra Flamecaller, the indestructible is nice. Flashing Priest in as a blocker seems the only reason Priests madness ability would be relevant as Hazoret's haste achieves the same goal of being able to attack immediately on your turn. I dont think Hazoret being Legendary hurts so much as it gives you cards to pitch to various spells when you have multiples. He also gives you another outlet to pitch madness cards.
This deck seems to be not bad at all and very fast, especially being so cheap.
Personally I've tweaked it a bit:
-3x Borderland Marauder, +2x Scourge Wolf, +1x Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
-4x Built to Smash, +4x Consuming Fervor
And changed the SB to:
4x Wrangle, 3x By Force, 2x Magmatic Chasm, 2x Cut // Ribbons and 4x Magma Spray.
This is my list:
4x Bomat Courier
4x Soul-Scar Mage
4x Falkenrath Gorger
4x Bloodrage Brawler
2x Scourge Wolf
1x Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
4x Ahn-Crop Crasher
2x Reckless Bushwhacker
4x Cartouche of Zeal
4x Consuming Fervor
Instant (4)
4x Shock
Sorcery (4)
4x Incendiary Flow
Land (19)
19 Mountain
4x Magma Spray
2x Cut // Ribbons
4x Wrangle
2x Magmatic Chasm
3x By Force
Hello,
I am mostly a control player(playing ur/grixis/jeskai control lately), but last fnm i have played this br deck and it was pretty good. However i have no experience at sidebording with this types of deck.
If i want to bring in disposses and lay bare the heart(for example against marvel or ur control) what should i side out?
Can someone explain briefly sideboard guide for matchups agains zombie, ur control, mardu vehicles.
Any help is appreciated:)
-3 Borderland Marauders for 3 Kari Zev. We can go wider and also menace is good.
-1 Incendiary Flow for 1 Invigorated Rampage
Ive seen a lot of debate over Built to Smash vs Consuming Fervor. I personally like the element of surprise with built to smash. We already cant avoid some 2-for-1 situations with the Cartouche. Not sure if the extra long term pump is worth the added risk of that. It already seems pretty easy to get 20 damage in 4 turns without that extra nudge.
Not sure of my sideboard yet but considering adding some Dual Shots for pesky servos & thopter tokens. Kari Zev's expertise cuz why kill their big dude when you take use it yourself. and Release the gremlins. if we gotta remove a troublesome artifact, might as well get a creature and continue to be aggressive.
Regarding Dual Shot, isn't Blazing Volley better as it can hit more creatures ?
Or Chandra's Pyrohelix that can burn face as well ?
Kari Zev's Expertise seems good but I prefer Wrangle as it is cheaper (I'd rather avoid 3-mana spells) and can get most creatures
(like Glorybringer or Archangel Avacyn).
With such a low curve and discarding to Bloodrage Brawler the extra spell isn't even guaranteed.
I like the instant speed of Dual Shot the same way I prefer Built to Smash. Dual Shot can be used to clear out dudes in combat especially in response to a Whirler Virtuoso activation or two
Wrangle cant grab an Ulamog or heart of kiran
By Force should take care of Heart of Kiran.
Another option is Lightning Axe but I'm not sure I like it as another card that forces me to discard (like Bloodrage Brawler)
and there is also Tears of Valakut which is a bit narrow.