Alms is good against UR Fevered Visions style decks. Not much to interact with, and the match is about getting them dead before they burn you out. I played that version of the deck a little bit, and Alms is pretty sad when you just want to interact with the board, e.g. Vs other Vehicle decks.
I supposed, but Fleetwheel is basically a better Duststalker. It has trample and doesn't get bounced to your hand half the time. Also, I'd cut Built and play more 1-drop Creatures.
Side topic: Why do I find Pia to be such an underwhelming card? Like I know she's good, her play rate is very simple proof of that, but I just can't figure out what makes her so universally used over other, cheaper creatures.
Side topic: Why do I find Pia to be such an underwhelming card? Like I know she's good, her play rate is very simple proof of that, but I just can't figure out what makes her so universally used over other, cheaper creatures.
I don't like the sideboard much though. At the very least, I think you'll want to make room for 2-4 Transgress the Mind. Also, the sweepers seem more harmful than they are beneficial.
There will clearly be scenarios where a sweeper will do equal harm, but I don't think it will necessarily do more harm to our board than an opponents. Courier and Neonates can be sac'd in response, Scrounger doesn't care, and Rain won't kill Olivia/Priest. Where as the RW decks will crumble with far less card advantage at their disposal. Sabotage is necessary for when Depala is in play.
Be that is it may, I did some due diligence. These are the card counts from 20 varying builds of this deck.
GALVANIC BOMBARDMENT - 60
LIGHTNING AXE - 32
CALL THE BLOODLINE - 12
TRANSGRESS THE MIND - 71
KALITAS - 35
WEAVER OF LIGHTNING - 27
BUSHWHACKER - 18
CHANDRA - 9
FRINGE CARDS
OATH OF LILIANA
HARNESSED LIGHTNING
SKYSOVEREIGN
LATHNU HELLION
KEY
COLLECTIVE BRUTALITY
DARK DWELLERS
TO THE SLAUGHTER
MAGMATIC CHASM
HANWEIR GARRISON
HANWEIR BATTLEMENTS
INVERTER OF TRUTH
Averages
GALVANIC BOMBARDMENT - 3
LIGHTNING AXE - 1.6
CALL THE BLOODLINE - .6
TRANSGRESS THE MIND - 3.55
KALITAS - 1.75
WEAVER OF LIGHTNING - 1.35
BUSHWHACKER - .9
CHANDRA - .45
So perhaps a more appropriate SB would look like this
I question the usefulness of Bombardment and Axe. If someone can put it in perspective for me. Neither hit the face and our removal suite already seems better than these two cards. I would argue running Tormentor here against Control, and more sweepers vs. aggro builds are the better options. Looking somewhat like this.
4 Transgress the Mind
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3 Lost Legacy
2 Biting Rain
2 Incendiary Sabotage
2 Elusive Tormentor
Oversight on my part with Transgress, as it snatches most threats, the biggest of which in my opinion is Aetherworks Marvel.
vs. RW Token & RG NRG, Sultai Midrange
+2 Biting Rain
+2 Kalitas
-4 Courier
Sub Sabotage for Rain vs. Sultai.
vs. Grixis Control, UR Spells, Jeskai Control
+2 Elusive Tormentor
-2 Keys
vs. Aetherworks & Delirium
+3 Lost Legacy
+4 Transgress
-3 Disintegration
-4 ???
vs. RW Vehicle, Mardu Vehicle, UW Flash
+2 Rain
+2 Sabotage
+2 Kalitas
-3 Courier
-1 Each Removal Spell
@JonInWherever: Also, I've updated the main post again with the new list. You might have a look at the Mono Red list I've suggested as an alternate build. I'm not sure if you have gotten the Aether Hubs and the Scroungers, but having black for Scrounger isn't super important early. You could just run Hubs for the recursion and have Defiance and/or Chandra in the place of the Disintegrates.
Thanks for running the numbers, and the list on the OP. It's similar to what I was planning on running (see below), but I wasn't thinking of Chandra main. She's in there now though! Right now, it has a 2/2 Pia/Prodder split, and 3 Defiance, but I'm thinking I want to find a space for the 4th. Maybe 3 Pia, drop the Prodder entirely? I'd honestly not thought about the Aether Hubs, even though I do have 4 Scroungers. I was going to just run them for the 3/2 aggro body, but I think you could be right - with the draws from Chandra, Prodder, Copter and wheel from Defiance if needed, a Hub should be fairly easy to find and recur the Scrounger. I could run some Harnessed Lightning in the board too, which will both be useful removal when needed, but also could stand to refill Hubs as well (as of last night, that spot had Chandra, but given that she's going main, I have two spots!). I also had Bedlam Reveler where you have GDD, and I think that choice could go either way, particularly if I have the need to dig more for Hubs. I also had 2 Ruinous Gremlin in the side, as I know there are a couple of Aetherworks decks at my store. Only other difference is as I mentioned - Goldnight Castigator over the Cruisers, as a) I only have one Cruiser, and b) I like the idea of the surprise flying attack. I know that, technically, Castigator shouldn't count towards the number of creatures for crewing Copter, as why would you crew a 3 power creature with a 4 power one? We'll see how it goes tomorrow...
Also wanted to share a list that took second at the SCG Regionals in Oregon. Interesting to see no Pia, but heavily loading on the one-drops and madness outlets.
To be frank, Pia is more important to the token listings than the vehicle listings, but she does give some utility and can win games by sneaking through the last few points of damage. I'm running an Alms listing as well, though I ended up with Bloodhall Priest instead of Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet thanks to the later being insanely expensive. (Coming from the guy who bought a playset of Chandra and 3 Gideons).
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Good to know. I've mentioned Sin Prodder as an alternative 3-drop a couple of times, but I'm not sure if it's been seen (or if it's just a ridiculous suggestion that doesn't need a response!). Could that be worth trying to push the last points of damage through either by evasion or the card flips? Or are Pia's pump and target creature can't block abilities worth more?
FWIW, I had a clear win if I attacked with my two creatures on g2 of finals but miscounted my opponent's resources and chose not to swing thinking he could crew copter with Hissing Quagmire and block with Gearhulk while he was at 2 life, but he was a land short. I was heavily distracted, in my defense, due to my opponent literally ignoring the game to play with and hold his baby while his wife was standing around... I was pretty tilted that the judge was allowing this to happen while there was absolutely no need since his wife just showed up with the baby. I plan on reporting this occurrence to the DCI and SCG.
It's interesting to see how different your approach to the game is from my own. I would be quite happy if my opponent was distracting himself from the game. If he's taking too long in his turn you can simply ask "can I ask you to make a play?" but mostly I would take the time he's distracted to sharpen my own game plan. Sure, it's rude that he's not focussing on the game, but tilt is the #1 enemy of playing good magic. You want to be calm and collected, considering all your options and identifying the best line of play in every single instance.
Sorry newbie at Standard and this dekc in general. I have been testing this deck a lot and I really like it. I made some changes myself about fleetwheel cruiser that just feels like a burden most of the time, a card that i take too long to deploy. Why do you prefer it over BloodHall Priest?
FWIW, I had a clear win if I attacked with my two creatures on g2 of finals but miscounted my opponent's resources and chose not to swing thinking he could crew copter with Hissing Quagmire and block with Gearhulk while he was at 2 life, but he was a land short. I was heavily distracted, in my defense, due to my opponent literally ignoring the game to play with and hold his baby while his wife was standing around... I was pretty tilted that the judge was allowing this to happen while there was absolutely no need since his wife just showed up with the baby. I plan on reporting this occurrence to the DCI and SCG.
It's interesting to see how different your approach to the game is from my own. I would be quite happy if my opponent was distracting himself from the game. If he's taking too long in his turn you can simply ask "can I ask you to make a play?" but mostly I would take the time he's distracted to sharpen my own game plan. Sure, it's rude that he's not focussing on the game, but tilt is the #1 enemy of playing good magic. You want to be calm and collected, considering all your options and identifying the best line of play in every single instance.
You are absolutely correct in that tilt is bad and being calm is good. I am well aware of how to deal with tilt, and how damaging it is to gameplay; it is not something I really deal with- not even when I play my Modern Merfolk vs Affinity!
When I said "pretty tilted" I meant "slightly puzzled and put-off by blatant favortism", not "I got real mad-bad and flustered" as it typically means in this community. I can see how my description did not convey this, my bad! The judge was friends with this gentleman, so I should have expected some level of favoritism. I guess the expectation of clean oversight of the final round must have been out of line
I'll be cutting Gorger, he was sided too often and never felt too strong. I'll probably try Pia and/or Forerunner in the MB. I can see how the Haste on the Scroungers and Copters would help a lot.
Nevelo, when are you bringing in Chandra?
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What seems to be doing better results wise? The almost Mono-Red version with 4 Key to the City, or the slightly bigger one that maxes out on Pia Nalaar? Caleb Scherer took 2nd with the Gorger list, and I'm wanting to play it tonight and get some results. Anyone cards you'd change about the list?
Why do you prefer [Fleetwheel] over BloodHall Priest?
Fleetwheel is aggressive and proactive. Against most decks you can generally ensure you can get some damage out of it. Priest is a bit harder to setup and might do nothing depending on what your opponent has, but awesome against other small creature decks.
Im new here, took a break from MTG for a couple years. Love the ideas going on here. I am working on a deck focused on madness,discarding and powerful 3 to 4 drops along with lots of removal. Ill post my finalized deck soon!
Not sure if all the results were uploaded, but I've found 7 decks in the Top8s of the SCG Regionals last weekend. The first decklist listed on SCG as having 63 cards, but I believe this to be a typo on the Forerunner quantity.
I'm thinking it could be pretty cool. We have Scrounger, Key to the City, Copter and Fleetwheel to lower the cost in most builds, with scrounger working as recurring fodder to re add the colossus.
I'm thinking it could be pretty cool. We have Scrounger, Key to the City, Copter and Fleetwheel to lower the cost in most builds, with scrounger working as recurring fodder to re add the colossus.
Scrounger is a creature, so doesn't discount the Colossus. Two Keys, two Cruisers, and four Copters alone probably isn't enough to significantly reduce the casting cost to anything that an aggro deck would want to be casting - the most likely scenario is that you have one of each out, so you're only likely going to be reducing the casting cost to 8...
Also, I ran the list I posted on the previous page to our Tuesday night tournament, and it ran amazingly well. Round 1 (Jeskai Control) and 2 (Esper Control) were both 2-1 wins. A little grindy, but both rounds were helped with Goldnight Castigators and reveals from Sin Prodder. Round 3 (UW Flash) was 2-0, including the first game within a matter of minutes. I had T1 Apprentice, T2 Copter (in for 2), T3 Scrounger (in for 5, 7 total), T4 Castigator (in for 10, 17 total, and scoop). Game 2 was a little slower, but bringing in the Bedlam Revelers helped to refill the hand and carry on cycling through with the Sanitarium. Round was was ID against Temur-ge, but we played a friendly match while waiting. He hadn't dropped a game all night, but I took our "match" 2-0. The second game was painful, with all four Deep-Fried making an appearance, but again, Prodder's reveals made him a target of concern, and got cards in hand despite having Copters tapped down. Unfortunately, my deck then decided to implode in the first match of the Top 8 against the Esper Control I faced in R2, giving me a flood in game 2, and then starving me game 3 (admittedly, after a greedy keep).
Take-aways though were that Sin Prodder was actually great in this deck, giving cards when Copter couldn't, and Castigator was also great, certainly in my local store, being able to chip away through Squid and Gearhulks in the air rather than being bogged down on the ground as Cruiser would have. Chandra's reveals were also useful, and often bought me a few turns while the opponents attacked her a couple of times while I was digging for lethal. Last card I was really impressed with was Key to the City. Being able to pitch a card EOT before untapping, paying 2 and drawing was great, especially in the slower games.
In short, my take-homes were that I need to make more sensible mulligan decisions, but I've known that for a while, plus Sin Prodder (at least in my list) is better than Pia. My only change for the next time is increase the number of Prodders, and also to maybe try the Bushwhacker plan (one main, one side seems OK).
FWIW, I had a clear win if I attacked with my two creatures on g2 of finals but miscounted my opponent's resources and chose not to swing thinking he could crew copter with Hissing Quagmire and block with Gearhulk while he was at 2 life, but he was a land short. I was heavily distracted, in my defense, due to my opponent literally ignoring the game to play with and hold his baby while his wife was standing around... I was pretty tilted that the judge was allowing this to happen while there was absolutely no need since his wife just showed up with the baby. I plan on reporting this occurrence to the DCI and SCG.
It's interesting to see how different your approach to the game is from my own. I would be quite happy if my opponent was distracting himself from the game. If he's taking too long in his turn you can simply ask "can I ask you to make a play?" but mostly I would take the time he's distracted to sharpen my own game plan. Sure, it's rude that he's not focussing on the game, but tilt is the #1 enemy of playing good magic. You want to be calm and collected, considering all your options and identifying the best line of play in every single instance.
You are absolutely correct in that tilt is bad and being calm is good. I am well aware of how to deal with tilt, and how damaging it is to gameplay; it is not something I really deal with- not even when I play my Modern Merfolk vs Affinity!
When I said "pretty tilted" I meant "slightly puzzled and put-off by blatant favortism", not "I got real mad-bad and flustered" as it typically means in this community. I can see how my description did not convey this, my bad! The judge was friends with this gentleman, so I should have expected some level of favoritism. I guess the expectation of clean oversight of the final round must have been out of line
I'll be cutting Gorger, he was sided too often and never felt too strong. I'll probably try Pia and/or Forerunner in the MB. I can see how the Haste on the Scroungers and Copters would help a lot.
Nevelo, when are you bringing in Chandra?
I cutted gorgers from my list, and stuck in 2 Pias and 2 Harness Lightning
Gorgers are pretty good when you want your deck to go the aggro way, but I think that in a world where Weaver Lightning is a sideboard staple, gorgers are pretty terrible.
In regards to Forerunner of slaughter, a friend of mine is running Borderland Marauders, to loose the Black mana constraint.
Pia's mostly relevant because she can crew multiple vehicles (say, 2 copters when you are at topdeck), and +1/+0 / creature can block is very versatile.
So far I think the biggest problem for our deck (both Aggro and Madness version) are more aggressive decks, namely R/G pummeler.
I've been suggested to run To the slaughter in the sideboard to deal against pummeler and also agains Marvel, since you get rid of the big dude right away.
I recently picked up the deck and while I hardly consider myself a great MtG player, I figured I'd share my thoughts. I played to a 2-2 finished last night. Current Deck is as follows:
If you are curious of any different choices, it is due to not having the cards for a full on netdeck. Yes I'm unoriginal, but I didn't have cards and wanted to get back into the game. Sue me.
Matchups
2-1 UB Eldrazi
A newer player running a brew. The idea was to use ingest cards to fuel Wasteland Stranglers (and Mirrorpool them) and run 26 lands so he could awaken Ruinous Paths. I only lost the first round because I couldn't find black mana and drew many black cards. A recurring theme I had, I need more swamps.
0-2 GR Energy
Round one I had a solid curve and he didn't really do much until a turn 4 Hydra. He sung on turn 5 and I did no blocking because, while I was aware of pumps, I figured the truly degenerate stuff was only with the pummeler. I was wrong. 20-0. Second game I mulled to 5 and found his pressure with removal spells as best I could but eventually he pulled a second hydra (transgressed the first) and I realized I was going to lose the race even if I didn't need a creature back each turn to block it. This feels like the worst matchup simply because of the hydra and our lack of interaction with it.
1-2 UBR control
First game I drew 14 lands despite using Key to the city and Bomats to draw a lot of cards. I was able to stay relevant with recurring scrapheap scrounger but in the end it was a pretty obvious outcome. Second game I barely managed to get there with a bit of burn at the end and the final game he had more removal than I had creatures. Essence Extraction is a rough card to beat.
2-0 BUG Midrange
He had walkers, Noxious Gearhulks and That 4 mana 2/3 that lets you steal a card from the opponent. He constantly milled his walkers and got more value out of my own stolen cards than he did out of his own deck. Felt like he was fighting his luck more than me.
Overall I felt like the deck was lacking something. A lot of the time I was trying to think of what card I wanted to draw and realizing that I had very few truly impactful cards. I feel like our ability to push damage is slow in exchange for the ability to go grindier with all of the removal, card selection and recursion through scrounger, but then we lack the actual power cards to compensate for the long game. All of our cards are decent, but they only work well if we can get the tempo on our side with a good curve which feels unreliable with 8 1 drops.
Pia felt...like a card that holds together a deck, but in a bad way. I'm pretty sure this one is mostly due to my own poor draws, but Pia herself presents very little threat. She turns on our Artifacts matter effects, gives us multiple bodies (one of which has evasion) and gives us a sink for extra mana...but none of these are hugely impactful effects. Artifact activation can be done in many ways in our deck, so that's not a big factor. The two bodies are nice, but they are small and unimpactful. For comparison, let's look at PKN from the old RB dragons list. PKN was strong there because with Kolaghan, the bodies and synergize and snowball out games. We don't have any effects like that and so the bodies contribute little. Heck, I never got any use out of Pia's body because the enemy would always have either a bigger creature or a sweeper by turn 3. Finally, her abilities are nice to have, but is 2 mana firebreathing really where we want to be? Overall she's helpful, but definitely a card I want to replace...unless we make Bushwhacker a thing, then she's going to be a very strong part of the package.
Key to the City was the real breakout card of the evening. We have madness and some graveyard recursion, so we always have something worth tossing away to get free unblockable effects. When I was out of fuel, Key gave me tons of free draws to get to what I needed to win. It's a card that looks mediocre but gives us the edge we need to turn games that look lost into wins. Basically it's what Pia wants to be.
As for the sideboard, I'm not familiar enough with the standard environment to make too many calls here. I'd consider adding To the Slaughter to deal with Hydras, but that's about it.
For the future, I want to either get more aggressive or get more midranged. The deck feels like it's on the cusp of being really good, but we're missing that last piece. Then again, one FNM with bad draws is hardly empirical evidence, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
Except for Key to the City. That thing could very easily be the best card in the deck. Unless you abandon the madness effects, you want to run the Key.
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Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
4 Smuggler's Copter
4 Forerunner of Slaughter
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
2 Pia Nalaar
2 Drana, Liberator of Malakir
4 Dust Stalker
4 Incendiary Flow
4 Fiery Temper
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
4 Built to Smash
4 Foreboding Ruins
4 Smoldering Marsh
8 Mountain
8 Swamp
C Long Live Eldrazi C
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
C Long Live Eldrazi C
Side topic: Why do I find Pia to be such an underwhelming card? Like I know she's good, her play rate is very simple proof of that, but I just can't figure out what makes her so universally used over other, cheaper creatures.
Am I just using her wrong?
C Long Live Eldrazi C
I don't like her either.
There will clearly be scenarios where a sweeper will do equal harm, but I don't think it will necessarily do more harm to our board than an opponents. Courier and Neonates can be sac'd in response, Scrounger doesn't care, and Rain won't kill Olivia/Priest. Where as the RW decks will crumble with far less card advantage at their disposal. Sabotage is necessary for when Depala is in play.
Be that is it may, I did some due diligence. These are the card counts from 20 varying builds of this deck.
LIGHTNING AXE - 32
CALL THE BLOODLINE - 12
TRANSGRESS THE MIND - 71
KALITAS - 35
WEAVER OF LIGHTNING - 27
BUSHWHACKER - 18
CHANDRA - 9
FRINGE CARDS
OATH OF LILIANA
HARNESSED LIGHTNING
SKYSOVEREIGN
LATHNU HELLION
KEY
COLLECTIVE BRUTALITY
DARK DWELLERS
TO THE SLAUGHTER
MAGMATIC CHASM
HANWEIR GARRISON
HANWEIR BATTLEMENTS
INVERTER OF TRUTH
Averages
GALVANIC BOMBARDMENT - 3
LIGHTNING AXE - 1.6
CALL THE BLOODLINE - .6
TRANSGRESS THE MIND - 3.55
KALITAS - 1.75
WEAVER OF LIGHTNING - 1.35
BUSHWHACKER - .9
CHANDRA - .45
So perhaps a more appropriate SB would look like this
4 Bomat Courier
3 Insolent Neonate
3 Scrapheap Scrounger
4 Heir to Falkenrath
2 Olivia, Mobilized for War
3 Bloodhall Priest
Spells (18)
4 Fiery Temper
4 Incendiary Flow
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
4 Smuggler's Copter
2 Key to the City
4 Foreboding Ruins
10 Mountain
9 Swamp
3 Galvanic Bombardment
3 Transgress the Mind
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3 Lost Legacy
2 Biting Rain
1 Incendiary Sabotage
2 Lightning Axe
I question the usefulness of Bombardment and Axe. If someone can put it in perspective for me. Neither hit the face and our removal suite already seems better than these two cards. I would argue running Tormentor here against Control, and more sweepers vs. aggro builds are the better options. Looking somewhat like this.
4 Transgress the Mind
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3 Lost Legacy
2 Biting Rain
2 Incendiary Sabotage
2 Elusive Tormentor
Oversight on my part with Transgress, as it snatches most threats, the biggest of which in my opinion is Aetherworks Marvel.
vs. RW Token & RG NRG, Sultai Midrange
+2 Biting Rain
+2 Kalitas
-4 Courier
Sub Sabotage for Rain vs. Sultai.
vs. Grixis Control, UR Spells, Jeskai Control
+2 Elusive Tormentor
-2 Keys
vs. Aetherworks & Delirium
+3 Lost Legacy
+4 Transgress
-3 Disintegration
-4 ???
vs. RW Vehicle, Mardu Vehicle, UW Flash
+2 Rain
+2 Sabotage
+2 Kalitas
-3 Courier
-1 Each Removal Spell
How you should approach every game of Magic.
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My Flawless Score MCC Card | My Other One | # Three!
Thanks for running the numbers, and the list on the OP. It's similar to what I was planning on running (see below), but I wasn't thinking of Chandra main. She's in there now though! Right now, it has a 2/2 Pia/Prodder split, and 3 Defiance, but I'm thinking I want to find a space for the 4th. Maybe 3 Pia, drop the Prodder entirely? I'd honestly not thought about the Aether Hubs, even though I do have 4 Scroungers. I was going to just run them for the 3/2 aggro body, but I think you could be right - with the draws from Chandra, Prodder, Copter and wheel from Defiance if needed, a Hub should be fairly easy to find and recur the Scrounger. I could run some Harnessed Lightning in the board too, which will both be useful removal when needed, but also could stand to refill Hubs as well (as of last night, that spot had Chandra, but given that she's going main, I have two spots!). I also had Bedlam Reveler where you have GDD, and I think that choice could go either way, particularly if I have the need to dig more for Hubs. I also had 2 Ruinous Gremlin in the side, as I know there are a couple of Aetherworks decks at my store. Only other difference is as I mentioned - Goldnight Castigator over the Cruisers, as a) I only have one Cruiser, and b) I like the idea of the surprise flying attack. I know that, technically, Castigator shouldn't count towards the number of creatures for crewing Copter, as why would you crew a 3 power creature with a 4 power one? We'll see how it goes tomorrow...
2 Goldnight Castigator
2 Pia Nalaar
2 Sin Prodder
4 Bomat Courier
4 Inventor's Apprentice
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Smuggler's Copter
Other (2)
2 Key to the City
Spells (11)
3 Collective Defiance
4 Fiery Temper
4 Incendiary Flow
Lands (23)
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
4 Aether Hub
18 Mountain
2 Bedlam Reveler
2 Harnessed Lightning
2 Lightning Axe
2 Ruinous Gremlin
3 Weaver of Lightning
4 Galvanic Bombardment
4 Bomat Courier
4 Falkenrath Gorger
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Inventor's Apprentice
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
Spells [20]
4 Alms of the Vein
4 Fiery Temper
4 Key to the City
4 Smuggler's Copter
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
4 Foreboding Ruins
10 Mountain
4 Smoldering Marsh
2 Swamp
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Collective Brutality
3 Incendiary Flow
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Lightning Axe
1 Murderous Compulsion
1 Swamp
3 Transgress the Mind
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
If I wasn't running Pia, I would consider Hanweir Garrison before anything else.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
It's interesting to see how different your approach to the game is from my own. I would be quite happy if my opponent was distracting himself from the game. If he's taking too long in his turn you can simply ask "can I ask you to make a play?" but mostly I would take the time he's distracted to sharpen my own game plan. Sure, it's rude that he's not focussing on the game, but tilt is the #1 enemy of playing good magic. You want to be calm and collected, considering all your options and identifying the best line of play in every single instance.
C Long Live Eldrazi C
4 Bomat Courier
4 Inventor's Apprentice
2 Forerunner of Slaughter
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
3 Pia Nalaar
Spells (20)
2 Key to the City
4 Incendiary Flow
4 Smuggler's Copter
4 Fiery Temper
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
2 Fleetwheel Cruiser
3 Smoldering Marsh
3 Swamp
4 Aether Hub
4 Foreboding Ruins
9 Mountain
2 Lightning Axe
2 Call the Bloodline
2 Collective Brutality
4 Transgress the Mind
2 Bloodhall Priest
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Basically the list I 4-0'd with at FNM last Friday with a couple updates to the side. Cut Weaver for more Transgress and a third Chandra.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
You are absolutely correct in that tilt is bad and being calm is good. I am well aware of how to deal with tilt, and how damaging it is to gameplay; it is not something I really deal with- not even when I play my Modern Merfolk vs Affinity!
When I said "pretty tilted" I meant "slightly puzzled and put-off by blatant favortism", not "I got real mad-bad and flustered" as it typically means in this community. I can see how my description did not convey this, my bad! The judge was friends with this gentleman, so I should have expected some level of favoritism. I guess the expectation of clean oversight of the final round must have been out of line
I'll be cutting Gorger, he was sided too often and never felt too strong. I'll probably try Pia and/or Forerunner in the MB. I can see how the Haste on the Scroungers and Copters would help a lot.
Nevelo, when are you bringing in Chandra?
-Sygg, River Cutthroat
I play all Cavern of Souls decks
Fleetwheel is aggressive and proactive. Against most decks you can generally ensure you can get some damage out of it. Priest is a bit harder to setup and might do nothing depending on what your opponent has, but awesome against other small creature decks.
The aggro matchups. She is essentially fills the role that Outpost Siege once did. Generally she comes in over Fleetwheel.
So far, the RB list similar to the stock list I posted last page is the only one with many results.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
4 Bomat Courier
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
1 Forerunner of Slaughter
4 Inventor's Apprentice
4 Pia Nalaar
Lands (23)
11 Mountain
4 Swamp
4 Aether Hub
4 Foreboding Ruins
2 Fleetwheel Cruiser
2 Key to the City
4 Smuggler's Copter
4 Fiery Temper
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
4 Incendiary Flow
3 Weaver of Lightning
4 Galvanic Bombardment
2 Lightning Axe
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4 Transgress the Mind
4 Bomat Courier
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
4 Falkenrath Gorger
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Inventor's Apprentice
Lands (20)
10 Mountain
2 Swamp
4 Foreboding Ruins
4 Smoldering Marsh
4 Key to the City
4 Smuggler's Copter
4 Fiery Temper
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
4 Alms of the Vein
2 Lightning Axe
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Collective Brutality
3 Incendiary Flow
1 Murderous Compulsion
3 Transgress the Mind
1 Swamp
4 Bomat Courier
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
3 Falkenrath Gorger
3 Insolent Neonate
4 Inventor's Apprentice
Lands (22)
10 Mountain
2 Swamp
2 Aether Hub
4 Foreboding Ruins
4 Smoldering Marsh
4 Key to the City
4 Smuggler's Copter
4 Fiery Temper
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
4 Alms of the Vein
2 Ghirapur Orrery
3 Bloodhall Priest
2 Lightning Axe
3 Collective Brutality
4 Incendiary Flow
1 Swamp
4 Bomat Courier
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
4 Inventor's Apprentice
1 Reckless Bushwhacker
4 Pia Nalaar
Lands (23)
11 Mountain
4 Swamp
4 Aether Hub
4 Foreboding Ruins
2 Fleetwheel Cruiser
2 Key to the City
4 Smuggler's Copter
4 Fiery Temper
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
4 Incendiary Flow
1 Reckless Bushwhacker
2 Call the Bloodline
4 Galvanic Bombardment
2 Lightning Axe
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4 Transgress the Mind
4 Bomat Courier
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
2 Bloodhall Priest
4 Inventor's Apprentice
1 Reckless Bushwhacker
3 Pia Nalaar
Lands (22)
10 Mountain
4 Swamp
4 Aether Hub
4 Foreboding Ruins
2 Fleetwheel Cruiser
2 Key to the City
4 Smuggler's Copter
4 Fiery Temper
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
4 Incendiary Flow
1 Reckless Bushwhacker
2 Call the Bloodline
4 Galvanic Bombardment
2 Lightning Axe
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4 Transgress the Mind
4 Bomat Courier
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
4 Inventor's Apprentice
1 Lathnu Hellion
3 Pia Nalaar
Lands (23)
10 Mountain
5 Swamp
4 Aether Hub
4 Foreboding Ruins
2 Fleetwheel Cruiser
3 Key to the City
4 Smuggler's Copter
4 Fiery Temper
2 Lightning Axe
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
2 Alms of the Vein
1 Distended Mindbender
2 Lathnu Hellion
2 Weaver of Lightning
4 Galvanic Bombardment
1 Lightning Axe
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3 Transgress the Mind
4 Bomat Courier
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
4 Inventor's Apprentice
3 Lathnu Hellion
1 Reckless Bushwhacker
3 Pia Nalaar
Lands (23)
11 Mountain
4 Swamp
4 Aether Hub
4 Foreboding Ruins
2 Fleetwheel Cruiser
4 Smuggler's Copter
4 Fiery Temper
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
4 Incendiary Flow
1 Reckless Bushwhacker
2 Call the Bloodline
4 Galvanic Bombardment
2 Lightning Axe
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4 Transgress the Mind
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
I'm thinking it could be pretty cool. We have Scrounger, Key to the City, Copter and Fleetwheel to lower the cost in most builds, with scrounger working as recurring fodder to re add the colossus.
Scrounger is a creature, so doesn't discount the Colossus. Two Keys, two Cruisers, and four Copters alone probably isn't enough to significantly reduce the casting cost to anything that an aggro deck would want to be casting - the most likely scenario is that you have one of each out, so you're only likely going to be reducing the casting cost to 8...
Also, I ran the list I posted on the previous page to our Tuesday night tournament, and it ran amazingly well. Round 1 (Jeskai Control) and 2 (Esper Control) were both 2-1 wins. A little grindy, but both rounds were helped with Goldnight Castigators and reveals from Sin Prodder. Round 3 (UW Flash) was 2-0, including the first game within a matter of minutes. I had T1 Apprentice, T2 Copter (in for 2), T3 Scrounger (in for 5, 7 total), T4 Castigator (in for 10, 17 total, and scoop). Game 2 was a little slower, but bringing in the Bedlam Revelers helped to refill the hand and carry on cycling through with the Sanitarium. Round was was ID against Temur-ge, but we played a friendly match while waiting. He hadn't dropped a game all night, but I took our "match" 2-0. The second game was painful, with all four Deep-Fried making an appearance, but again, Prodder's reveals made him a target of concern, and got cards in hand despite having Copters tapped down. Unfortunately, my deck then decided to implode in the first match of the Top 8 against the Esper Control I faced in R2, giving me a flood in game 2, and then starving me game 3 (admittedly, after a greedy keep).
Take-aways though were that Sin Prodder was actually great in this deck, giving cards when Copter couldn't, and Castigator was also great, certainly in my local store, being able to chip away through Squid and Gearhulks in the air rather than being bogged down on the ground as Cruiser would have. Chandra's reveals were also useful, and often bought me a few turns while the opponents attacked her a couple of times while I was digging for lethal. Last card I was really impressed with was Key to the City. Being able to pitch a card EOT before untapping, paying 2 and drawing was great, especially in the slower games.
In short, my take-homes were that I need to make more sensible mulligan decisions, but I've known that for a while, plus Sin Prodder (at least in my list) is better than Pia. My only change for the next time is increase the number of Prodders, and also to maybe try the Bushwhacker plan (one main, one side seems OK).
I cutted gorgers from my list, and stuck in 2 Pias and 2 Harness Lightning
Gorgers are pretty good when you want your deck to go the aggro way, but I think that in a world where Weaver Lightning is a sideboard staple, gorgers are pretty terrible.
In regards to Forerunner of slaughter, a friend of mine is running Borderland Marauders, to loose the Black mana constraint.
Pia's mostly relevant because she can crew multiple vehicles (say, 2 copters when you are at topdeck), and +1/+0 / creature can block is very versatile.
So far I think the biggest problem for our deck (both Aggro and Madness version) are more aggressive decks, namely R/G pummeler.
I've been suggested to run To the slaughter in the sideboard to deal against pummeler and also agains Marvel, since you get rid of the big dude right away.
4 Bomat Courier
4 Inventor's Apprentice
3 Scrapheap Scrounger
1 Reckless Bushwhacker
3 Pia Nalaar
1 Dust Stalker
2 Bloodhall Priest
Vehicles
4 Smuggler's Copter
1 Fleetwheel Cruiser
2 Key to the City
Spells
3 Fiery Temper
4 Unlicensed Disintigration
4 Incendiary Flow
Land
10 Mountain
4 Smouldering Marsh
4 Aether Hub
5 Swamp
4 Lighting Weaver
3 Forerunner of Slaughter
2 Transgress the Mind
4 Galvanic Bombardment
2 Lightning Axe
If you are curious of any different choices, it is due to not having the cards for a full on netdeck. Yes I'm unoriginal, but I didn't have cards and wanted to get back into the game. Sue me.
Matchups
2-1 UB Eldrazi
A newer player running a brew. The idea was to use ingest cards to fuel Wasteland Stranglers (and Mirrorpool them) and run 26 lands so he could awaken Ruinous Paths. I only lost the first round because I couldn't find black mana and drew many black cards. A recurring theme I had, I need more swamps.
0-2 GR Energy
Round one I had a solid curve and he didn't really do much until a turn 4 Hydra. He sung on turn 5 and I did no blocking because, while I was aware of pumps, I figured the truly degenerate stuff was only with the pummeler. I was wrong. 20-0. Second game I mulled to 5 and found his pressure with removal spells as best I could but eventually he pulled a second hydra (transgressed the first) and I realized I was going to lose the race even if I didn't need a creature back each turn to block it. This feels like the worst matchup simply because of the hydra and our lack of interaction with it.
1-2 UBR control
First game I drew 14 lands despite using Key to the city and Bomats to draw a lot of cards. I was able to stay relevant with recurring scrapheap scrounger but in the end it was a pretty obvious outcome. Second game I barely managed to get there with a bit of burn at the end and the final game he had more removal than I had creatures. Essence Extraction is a rough card to beat.
2-0 BUG Midrange
He had walkers, Noxious Gearhulks and That 4 mana 2/3 that lets you steal a card from the opponent. He constantly milled his walkers and got more value out of my own stolen cards than he did out of his own deck. Felt like he was fighting his luck more than me.
Overall I felt like the deck was lacking something. A lot of the time I was trying to think of what card I wanted to draw and realizing that I had very few truly impactful cards. I feel like our ability to push damage is slow in exchange for the ability to go grindier with all of the removal, card selection and recursion through scrounger, but then we lack the actual power cards to compensate for the long game. All of our cards are decent, but they only work well if we can get the tempo on our side with a good curve which feels unreliable with 8 1 drops.
Pia felt...like a card that holds together a deck, but in a bad way. I'm pretty sure this one is mostly due to my own poor draws, but Pia herself presents very little threat. She turns on our Artifacts matter effects, gives us multiple bodies (one of which has evasion) and gives us a sink for extra mana...but none of these are hugely impactful effects. Artifact activation can be done in many ways in our deck, so that's not a big factor. The two bodies are nice, but they are small and unimpactful. For comparison, let's look at PKN from the old RB dragons list. PKN was strong there because with Kolaghan, the bodies and synergize and snowball out games. We don't have any effects like that and so the bodies contribute little. Heck, I never got any use out of Pia's body because the enemy would always have either a bigger creature or a sweeper by turn 3. Finally, her abilities are nice to have, but is 2 mana firebreathing really where we want to be? Overall she's helpful, but definitely a card I want to replace...unless we make Bushwhacker a thing, then she's going to be a very strong part of the package.
Key to the City was the real breakout card of the evening. We have madness and some graveyard recursion, so we always have something worth tossing away to get free unblockable effects. When I was out of fuel, Key gave me tons of free draws to get to what I needed to win. It's a card that looks mediocre but gives us the edge we need to turn games that look lost into wins. Basically it's what Pia wants to be.
As for the sideboard, I'm not familiar enough with the standard environment to make too many calls here. I'd consider adding To the Slaughter to deal with Hydras, but that's about it.
For the future, I want to either get more aggressive or get more midranged. The deck feels like it's on the cusp of being really good, but we're missing that last piece. Then again, one FNM with bad draws is hardly empirical evidence, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
Except for Key to the City. That thing could very easily be the best card in the deck. Unless you abandon the madness effects, you want to run the Key.