Firstly, Welcome to the newcomers, Dur Faroth, Storm Seeker and Mad Mat, Be sure to read the first post for not only useful info, but also for the guidelines in the thread(essentially no splashing, but there are others too).
Anyway, Dur, about your deck your win condition (i'm assuming its Hyppie) is too fragile. Sure you may be able to keep his hand empty, you're still going to find that one or 2 spells of his will slip through to kill it. Also, if you're planning on using consume spirit as a secondary win condition, then you'll have to run storage lands. Perhaps something more solid as a win condition, Stronghold Overseer, Plague Sliver, Sengir Nosferatu are all options. These win cons can all handle Aggro. Another thing your deck lacks, is Persecute, Persecute is to Black, what Wrath of God is to White, A core card. And if you're looking to empty your opponents hand fast, than this is the fastest. You shouldn't MD Sudden Spoiling, just keep it in the sideboard. Other than that your deck seems pretty solid.
Hmmm, Storm, if you're having trouble with aggro, i suggest taking out Muse Vessel and MD your plagued rusalkas. About your Dimir Guildmages, personally i like the card, just that in a competitive environment, where every deck will be chock full of removal it's not going to stick around long enough to be of much use. I suggest nightmare void in place of that, its alot better because it can target and it will inevitably ruin control decks.
Mad Mat, I'm not too sure about gauntlet of power. i don't know, it just doesn't seem to fit. Maybe i'll try building a deck around it. Actually, MBA would be able to beat MBC because MBC does not have Wrath of god.
AoK, nightmare void is good, no questions about that.
Sengir, you're deck is just like my LD deck a few pages back, except you've some really nice extras, nice
About Liege of the pit, i have mixed feelings, i want to make a deck that abuses him. And i think, MBA is a good place to put him.
Umm... Did you take into acount the fact that bob kills you with him?
Yeah, and it seems about as relevant as the fact that his BBBB morph cost makes him really bad in decks that only have a little bit of black in them. Not every black deck has to tiptoe around Bob's finickiness.
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Hi, I'm new here and not really all that good yet :\. However, I keep trying to make some decks here and there to improve my skills. I would really appreciate some critique, it will only make me better.
I realise this deck isn't all that good, as I lose a lot of games on the MWS online :(. But I lose with any deck I make, so yea :/
EDIT: I don't know why some cards don't give a hyperlink :s. Sorry for that
Ok, here are my thoughts:
1. You don't really need four copies of AvyWoe. Cut it down to two.
2. Urborg Syphon-mage is super rad in multiplayer, but in one-on-one games it's not that great. I'd probably take these out as well.
3. Add in some more creatures! Hypnotic Specter is always a good option, and either Plague Sliver or Sengir Nosferatu, depending on whether you want to focus more on slow, controlled games or on just beating face.
4. The madness stuff (Dark Withering, Gorgon) isn't that good if you don't have effects that cause you to discard. If you aren't adding anything like that, I'd probably replace the Gorgons with some other creature, and replace Dark Withering with Dark Banishing or some other kill spell.
5. Premature Burial kind of sucks. I'd say replace it, but you've got enough other creaturekill as it is, so maybe drop it for creatures, or Small Pox.
6. You might want to go up to four Bad Moons. It's the kind of thing that, if you're using it at all, you might as well go whole hog.
edit:
7. There's no real reason to not use three or four Deserts in this deck, instead of swamps.
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Welcome to the fold. One of the key tricks to building a good deck is curve, otherwise known as being able to play cards every turn. If you figure that out, you'll get a lot better a lot faster.
Keep playing. And keep trying to build decks. Theres a lot of good info on this site. Pay attention and you just may learn something.
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But now you mention it: hideous laughter and NOSB leave t2, that's true :/ . We're gonna need a new efficient wrath and I can't think of any right now.
But this is off course without any testing, school swallows all my playtesting time.
If you're using Gauntlet anyway, Plague Wind might be ok.
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Well, all deck seem competitive. The thing is that everybody starts playing Aggro Black or suicidal or similar builds, is that bad moos will start to suck.
Did somebody suggest Liege of the Pit for mono black CONTROL?
Err....exactly what are you going to sac to him so he doesn't kill you? If you run Skeletal Vampire, okay...but do you want to tie that much mana into making creatures instead of killing your opponents'? Most MBC builds run a small number of creatures, instead relying on business spells to kill off people.
In a few words: Stronghold Overseer > Liege of the Pit.
Can anyone tell me if there is ANY mass kill (besides the yucky Plague Wind) available to us?
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
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Well, after a Biology-101 related hiatus, I'm back. And to clarify, Liege of the Pit is indeed terrible. Casual material and nothing more, there are plenty of better finishers out there.
@Loxodon: Your sui deck actually looks a bit like my current build. Glad to hear that the Traitors and Plague Slivers are just as good as I had hoped. I would imagine that Plague Sliver would be troublesome, it's out of Char range.
@AoK: Y-Y-You're a mod now! As far as mono-black mass removal goes, sadly no, not in T2 (at least not that I know of). The closest we have is Sudden Spoiling, and that doesn't actually kill them, just makes them vulnerable. Still worth considering, though, I'm running a playset maindeck but also building my deck to be extra synergistic with it. Still, if it doesn't work I'll have to move it to the SB. Unfortunately R&D didn't see fit to Timeshift Mutilate.
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3rd update on the deck... most notable changes made: the addition of plague sliver in the deck. After Testing soo much I just had to include him, hes just too big to ignore to any deck, if you get him through against a control deck its probably game. Plus aggro also goes into serious race mode with him in play.
Also upped mana up to 21 lands... why? cuz I was getting stuck on 2 mana 65% of the time on all my test runs, making it really unefective in getting down threats like Hippie and stupor quickly or even worse getting stuck on my own smallpox. tried 21 seemed to run perfectly as it stoped mana lack as well as mana flow.
Only 3 bad moons in the deck now, the reason: bad moon is a "win more" card, too many a time I drew bad moon in my tests only to either A. win the game that was already being won or B. Have it do absolutely nothing. So I opted for 1 less bad moon, if test keep going as they are ill possibly even end up *gasp* removing it.
BTW: ive tested a deck featuring Leige of the Pit, and it might be impresive if controled right. Of course this is a more controlish type of deck and features stuff like Magus of the Mirror (not sacrificing and taking 7 only to switch life and attack for 7 is fun), but alas its an unimpressive deck. Good for some fun though.
Hmmm, First off, Welcome to the Thread Reallife, Please read the first post for useful info and guidelines of the thread.
Anyway, Reallife, your deck has alot of synergy, but on MWS, you're going to find that it's too weak. You don't really need so many discard effects, if you're going to play madness, i suggest putting in cards like Nightshade Assassin or Psychotic Episode, remove your assassinate and premature burial and dark withering. Put in Cruel Edict, it's alot better because it can hit creatures that can't be countered. Take out the syphon-mages and maybe if you wanted to use Avatar of Woe, Add Plagued Rusalkas and other stuff that gets creatures into the grave.
Extarbags, thats what i was thinking as well. Plague Wind is...just crazy. and it's so one sided it's brilliant. I just played against this deck with gauntlet of power, he used consume spirits as the kill card. He beat me the first round because my persecute failed (he had 5 swamps in hand...what were the chances of that?!) After that he used diabolic tutor to search for answers to my threats, and finally tutored his Consume Spirit. The second round however, after his diabolic edict i persecuted and hit the jackpot. Although, he still did have 2 gauntlets of power in hand and enough mana to cast them. After he cast the gauntlets, i was able to play Garza's Assassin, Helldozer and Plague Sliver During my next turn. In two turns i killed him (Despite him being at 30+ life(he consumed me for 18).
Congrats on becoming a mod AoK =D, anyway, the way i'd use the Liege of the pit would definitely be aggro, Using cards like Grave pact, Rusalka's and More, If anything, i'm just using the liege of the pit as a 1 of hit, something that will cause an immediate win. I'll be posting a prototype soon.
Sengir, your MBA is pretty good, i know what you mean about Bad Moon, what i hate most is if the opponent is running mono-black, than that's just horrible.
Anyway, here is the deck i've been playing lately. It's Control, but it plays like an Aggro deck.
This deck uses Acceleration in the form of Coldsteel heart, either to get an early persecute down, or a plague sliver. I use Garza's Assassin simply because it's an awesome creature. He can trade against small creatures and blow the big ones out of the water completely and he comes back too! Yes, thats why i use him, thats why i MD 4. Anyway, i've picked helldozer because he's a monster in the current format. Plague Sliver because he's a huge beater with a huge body. Sengir Nosferatu because he is the mono-black bullet dodger. Admittedly my life total tends to go pretty low, but thats just the way i like it. I use Soul Spike to keep myself alive long enough to kill. Diabolic Tutor i use because it's a good way to get what i need secretly(Unlike with transmute). Anyway, this deck has been able to take on decks like dragonstorm, solarflare and a few others. Hope you guys like it.
@Synide: great deck, thanks for rimindimg me of the existanc eof coldsteel heart! had completely forgoten about it and thought I was doomed for accel until I hit the phyrexian totem.
anyways just one recomendation for you: use scrying sheets engine. with soo many snow covered lands and the hearts you basically have 27 snow permanents you can draw with them. (not including more scrying sheets)
Hmm.. I think that garza's assasin is pretty good card. Okay, recover cost is crap, but it shouldn't matter because it is a beater that can kill out opposing creatures. I think it could even have it's place in MBC, especially against aggro where it can 2-for-1 opposing critters pretty easily.
Recover cost is actually payable in some situations, where you need to kill something big that would swing for half of your life anyway, so it isn't useless by any means.
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@Dur Faroth: your deck starts with a nice idea but I just dont know what to make of it. But I really think its defective vs more organized decks.
Pesonally i wouldnt take 11 creature kill spells.... 4 sudden death and 4 cruel edict/Last Gasp should be more than enough. Even more so when you take garza's assasin.
Plague Sliver is a horrible win condition for control! even more so when you run just 2 of them. Theres much better options for creatures in black for a control deck that features few creatures which are:
Helldozzer, Stonghold Overseer, Sengir Nosferatu, Skeletal Vampire.
also every single one of them can take advantage from mana generated by the guantlet basicaly enhancing their mana greedy abilities to the max, save possibly the Nosferatu (who can marginally still take advantage)
Also Loxodon is right , remove the coldsteel heart andadd the Phyrexian totems. They are much better in control as they add another win condition (which your deck is lacking)
unless you really need a combo piece or somethingthe tutors will be underwhelming at best. add Phyrexian Arena which will provide for much better card advantage than the tutors.
@Loxodon: I love the MBC deck you have built, seems really consitent and powerfull. The only thing I have touble with using still is the curse of the cabal... just seems like it wont do anything.
Its a monoblack aggro deck that uses discard for madness and to put big creatures into the deck's graveyard for reanimation.
Nether Traitor is a staple, being used as sacrifice fodder to Liege of the Pit, and sacrifice trigger to Hell's Caretaker as well as obviously bringing back into play another one of its kind when they are sacrificed.
The deck is pretty self explanatory, discard the Liege of the Pits and Stronghold Overseers and reanimate them with Zombify and Hell's Caretaker.
Along with several creatures that make the player discard and Smallpox which does the same. And using the discard for madness as well.
liege of the pit is actually very similar to a morph blistering firecat that has flying if you play in mono black.. and its not in a wimpy 1 toughness but its 7! it can slip away from sudden death or sudden shock since morph doesnt use stack :D..
other than that, nether traitor, bad moon and husk is self explanatory..(husk can save u from liege 7 damage in case u have no creature to sacrifice, or u can just sacrifice the husk itself, or otherwise just take that 7 damage, u noe u still can survive with it!! :D)
confidant to boost up ur card draw and dealing extra damage to your opponent..
cruel edict and smallpox to deal with those untergetable critters and in case u use smallpox, u can always discard your nether traitor (if you have in hand)..
in case u r low in health against some other burn deck, u can use the tendrils to regain quite a lot of life, at least 4 life :D.. and its an instant!!
actually my friend have been telling me to put jump knights but i just do not know which one i should i change..
any suggestion for improvement? (i need suggestion for the sideboard too actually :))
If R&D had timeshifted Mutilate, I'd go kiss every member of the team.
On Garza's Assassin: At FNM, I happened to see a really sick combo involving this guy and another card with recover, Grim Harvest. It doesn't suck so badly when you don't have to pay half your life to get it back.
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
Quote from Yukora »
This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
Quote from RedDwarfian »
Yes mistress...
Quote from About epic-level D&D »
There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
Quote from Concerning breeding habits of humans in fantasy games »
I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
any chance the mods might see fit to split this off into mbA and mbC, since they are obviously two VERY different takes (even archetypes) within mono-black...?
please. it would end some of the confusion and arguing over card choices/decklists.
Next time you post popular opinions, please word them in such a way that they're not infractable. Someone may be widely thought to be the dullest tool in the shed, but you can't publicly call him that, which as a mod I can neither confirm nor deny that I fervently believe he's a tool.
The Thread justs keeps growing, Sin, Iphanx and Themchops, Welcome! Please read the first Post, it contains lots of useful information, and also contains the guidelines we follow to avoid confusion.
Firstly, Themchops, You're definitely not the first one to suggest this thread be split. And this isn't the first time i've had to say this. This thread serves a dual purpose, 1) One-Stop Shop for Discussing mono-black cards, decks(no matter what type) and combos and 2) To help each other perfect our MB decks. We have been able to do this. All with little or no confusion at all. I know the people here, if they were confused they'd speak up, and so far your the 2nd person to complain. About arguing over card choices, go to any thread you'll find arguing about card choices, go to the counterpost thread and you'll they were arguing about chord. Our arguments aren't actual arguments, it's called Discussion. I highly suggest you check out the first post, i think you'll definitely get some answers.
Hey Sin, I like your deck, ever since Reallife posted a madness/reanimator he tried making, i've been trying to make one as well. Mine however is not as good as yours. Undertaker is a card that i forgot about(forgot it was Shifted in), it was one of my favourite spellshapers without a doubt. Hmmm, lets see, if you're playing reanimator, remove call to the netherworld and put the dread return instead. Maybe put lower the number of hell's caretaker by 1 and put in 1 more smallpox. Also, since this deck will be doing quite abit of saccing, i highly suggest MDing Grave pact. Get rid of dark withering. Also try putting in Nightshade Assassin. You definitely need to Main Deck 4 sudden death.
Dur Faroth, for your deck Phyrexian totem is definitely alot better. The reason i ran coldsteel heart in my Aggro-Control is because it helps me accel to third turn plague sliver / Persecute which was very important for my deck. For yours however, Phyrexian totem should work wonders for you. Late game with 6 mana and 2 totems you get a 10 damage swing. Really good.
Iphanx, nice deck, although one thing that worries me(undoubtedly anyone else who read your decklist) Dark Confidant and Liege of the Pit. but thinking about it because you're only running 3 lieges i don't think you'll have to worry too much. Other than that your deck is very solid. Stromgald Crusader is very good. Many would speculate that alot of decks are running Desert, but i havent seen alot of them around, I highly suggest it because it has protection from white. Other than Black and Red, White has the greatest number amount of removal. The beauty of the crusader is that it can't be condemned, Faith's fetters. So put it in, and if you do that, i suggest taking out Smallpox, sometimes you just don't want to sac anything.
AoK, you know if i was on the R&D team it'd bring it back, do i get a kiss too? =P Actually, the one of the beauties of Garza's Assassin is that it is so versatile( yes the combo with Grim Harvest is Immense). Gravepact is an excellent way to boost it's power. Getting a 2 for 1.
Loxodon, you're deck is very consistent. The only thing is, Curse of the Cabal. I'm not sure about you, but i'd remove those for abit more creature removal. Smallpox isn't enough creature removal in my opinion. Because if you have you're win con out, you're going to have to sac it, unless of course you pay 3 to sac your totem. Was about to say you need last gasp, but you got it in SB, nice, About mindstab being in your SB, i think you should put in 2 nightmare void instead, when you're facing a counter heavy deck, it's the only thing that can and will save you. Maybe other cards you could try out, for a utility spell, try Gauntlet of might. For your last SB slot, you absolutely need Graveyard Destruction. Shred Memory is good because opponents can't see it coming. Withered Wretch is good because you can always use it.
One thing, i was watching my brother play his MBC against an Enduring Renewal combo deck and he was getting raped pretty badly. Opponent played a 1000 damage Grapeshot using wild cantor. I realized that this deck might be a big problem for MB. Until i read enduring renewal. The effect is not a replacement effect, rather, it's triggered. So for a short while the creature will be in the grave. You can remove the creature from the picture entirely using graveyard removal, his recurrence will stop. Another way of stopping the combo, kill the creature on your turn, then discard it.
Thats why, i think from now on we need to start keep at least one slot for Recurrable Graveyard Hosing. Personally, i don't think Tormod's crypt is sufficient here, we may neeed withered wretch or Moratorium stone. Shred Memory would also be good.
A thought on MB Sideboards, there are some cards that we absolutely cannot do without. One of them is Nightmare Void. The reason why we need this is simple. With the return of Blue Counter Control, nightmare void is the only way to get through that wall of counters. Also, it helps against decks which are heavy with destruction effects. As i mentioned earlier we absolutely need to devote at least 1 slot in our SB for graveyard destruction, this slot, i'm not totally sure what is the best but I'd go with Withered Wretch. What do you think?
So Far this deck has been running beautifully. 61 Cards in a deck is pretty optimum, though the chances are not maxed out, it still very consistent, 61 cards is the absolute highest deck size i will go to, after that consistence suffers greatly. Try it, you might like it. =D
@Loxodon: [curse of the cabal looks real good on paper but ive actually been playtesting it. But the fact is that its not great AT all.
ON all of the runs one of two things have happened: 1. It helped me win a game I was gona clearly win anyways (so it did nothing except be a really really bad and slow LD spell) or 2. did absolutely nothing since my oponent was able to keep it suspended for ever.
The reason the curse is soo bad is that a single permanent someone sacrifices stalls the curse 2 more turns, someone can easily and i repeat easily take the permanent advantage right there and keep it stalled until it no longer is any threat.
@iphanx: Confidants should go, with so many 3 mana cost cards 50% of the time youll be taking 2-3 damage a turn. Lets not forget also the leige of the pit causing trouble and whaching you for 8 damage in one turn because of a confidant. IN any case take the phyrexian arena not confidants in your deck.
@SyNide: for grave removal the best options are the withered wretch and the tormod's crypt. one is reusable and agressive providing both a great creature, with relevant creatyure types, and a more than relevant ability. The second one a gigantic way to just remove the grave from play inmediately.
In case enduring renewal gets nasty theres also the option of leyline of the void, absolutely ruining their combo. but the wretch and the crypt should be enough for the time being until the graveyards really needs some hate.
how can i forget about the liege and confidant.. i think i'll just put the arena instead of the confidant.. actually i've been tthinking how to deal with alto and small creature token at once, those like sacred mesa or some other token generator.. and also how to deal with lotsa untargetable creature at once (we actually can use the sudden spoilling but is there any better suggestion?)..
@Loxodon
There isn't single mono-black card that says "destroy target creature (fullstop)". Dark Banishing says "destroy target NONBLACK creature" and it isn't good to use. Also becuz this thread is only for mono-black, i don't recommand to use Mortify.
Hey guys, I posted this before, but nobody replied. Anyway, here's my Mono-Black Discard. The focus is disruption of the hand. Thanks to the rack this is possible.
I would remove the Nocturnus and Confidants for Phyrexian Arena. I think your build has too many high casting cards to be running Confidants and the Nocturnus is simply a bad card. The Dimir Guildmages could go as well. Also, I'd get a sacrifice engine in there like Plagued Rusalka or Nantuko Husk to make better use of those Mindslicers.
Hey guys, I posted this before, but nobody replied. Anyway, here's my Mono-Black Discard. The focus is disruption of the hand. Thanks to the rack this is possible.
Anyway, Dur, about your deck your win condition (i'm assuming its Hyppie) is too fragile. Sure you may be able to keep his hand empty, you're still going to find that one or 2 spells of his will slip through to kill it. Also, if you're planning on using consume spirit as a secondary win condition, then you'll have to run storage lands. Perhaps something more solid as a win condition, Stronghold Overseer, Plague Sliver, Sengir Nosferatu are all options. These win cons can all handle Aggro. Another thing your deck lacks, is Persecute, Persecute is to Black, what Wrath of God is to White, A core card. And if you're looking to empty your opponents hand fast, than this is the fastest. You shouldn't MD Sudden Spoiling, just keep it in the sideboard. Other than that your deck seems pretty solid.
Hmmm, Storm, if you're having trouble with aggro, i suggest taking out Muse Vessel and MD your plagued rusalkas. About your Dimir Guildmages, personally i like the card, just that in a competitive environment, where every deck will be chock full of removal it's not going to stick around long enough to be of much use. I suggest nightmare void in place of that, its alot better because it can target and it will inevitably ruin control decks.
Mad Mat, I'm not too sure about gauntlet of power. i don't know, it just doesn't seem to fit. Maybe i'll try building a deck around it. Actually, MBA would be able to beat MBC because MBC does not have Wrath of god.
AoK, nightmare void is good, no questions about that.
Sengir, you're deck is just like my LD deck a few pages back, except you've some really nice extras, nice
About Liege of the pit, i have mixed feelings, i want to make a deck that abuses him. And i think, MBA is a good place to put him.
Yeah, and it seems about as relevant as the fact that his BBBB morph cost makes him really bad in decks that only have a little bit of black in them. Not every black deck has to tiptoe around Bob's finickiness.
Ok, here are my thoughts:
1. You don't really need four copies of AvyWoe. Cut it down to two.
2. Urborg Syphon-mage is super rad in multiplayer, but in one-on-one games it's not that great. I'd probably take these out as well.
3. Add in some more creatures! Hypnotic Specter is always a good option, and either Plague Sliver or Sengir Nosferatu, depending on whether you want to focus more on slow, controlled games or on just beating face.
4. The madness stuff (Dark Withering, Gorgon) isn't that good if you don't have effects that cause you to discard. If you aren't adding anything like that, I'd probably replace the Gorgons with some other creature, and replace Dark Withering with Dark Banishing or some other kill spell.
5. Premature Burial kind of sucks. I'd say replace it, but you've got enough other creaturekill as it is, so maybe drop it for creatures, or Small Pox.
6. You might want to go up to four Bad Moons. It's the kind of thing that, if you're using it at all, you might as well go whole hog.
edit:
7. There's no real reason to not use three or four Deserts in this deck, instead of swamps.
Keep playing. And keep trying to build decks. Theres a lot of good info on this site. Pay attention and you just may learn something.
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"So I drink to health, while you kill yourself..."
If you're using Gauntlet anyway, Plague Wind might be ok.
Err....exactly what are you going to sac to him so he doesn't kill you? If you run Skeletal Vampire, okay...but do you want to tie that much mana into making creatures instead of killing your opponents'? Most MBC builds run a small number of creatures, instead relying on business spells to kill off people.
In a few words: Stronghold Overseer > Liege of the Pit.
Can anyone tell me if there is ANY mass kill (besides the yucky Plague Wind) available to us?
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@Loxodon: Your sui deck actually looks a bit like my current build. Glad to hear that the Traitors and Plague Slivers are just as good as I had hoped. I would imagine that Plague Sliver would be troublesome, it's out of Char range.
@AoK: Y-Y-You're a mod now! As far as mono-black mass removal goes, sadly no, not in T2 (at least not that I know of). The closest we have is Sudden Spoiling, and that doesn't actually kill them, just makes them vulnerable. Still worth considering, though, I'm running a playset maindeck but also building my deck to be extra synergistic with it. Still, if it doesn't work I'll have to move it to the SB. Unfortunately R&D didn't see fit to Timeshift Mutilate.
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No, aggro.
4 Dark Confidant
4 Dauthi Slayer
4 Nether Traitor
3 Hypnotic Specter
3 Withered Wretch
3 Plague Sliver
3 Bad Moon
4 Funeral Charm
4 Small Pox
3 Stupor
4 Sudden Death
Lands
21 Snow-Covered Swamps
3 Sudden Spoiling
3 Last Gasp
3 Persecute
1 Plague sliver
1 Stupor
1 Withered Wretch
2 Mindstab
3rd update on the deck... most notable changes made: the addition of plague sliver in the deck. After Testing soo much I just had to include him, hes just too big to ignore to any deck, if you get him through against a control deck its probably game. Plus aggro also goes into serious race mode with him in play.
Also upped mana up to 21 lands... why? cuz I was getting stuck on 2 mana 65% of the time on all my test runs, making it really unefective in getting down threats like Hippie and stupor quickly or even worse getting stuck on my own smallpox. tried 21 seemed to run perfectly as it stoped mana lack as well as mana flow.
Only 3 bad moons in the deck now, the reason: bad moon is a "win more" card, too many a time I drew bad moon in my tests only to either A. win the game that was already being won or B. Have it do absolutely nothing. So I opted for 1 less bad moon, if test keep going as they are ill possibly even end up *gasp* removing it.
BTW: ive tested a deck featuring Leige of the Pit, and it might be impresive if controled right. Of course this is a more controlish type of deck and features stuff like Magus of the Mirror (not sacrificing and taking 7 only to switch life and attack for 7 is fun), but alas its an unimpressive deck. Good for some fun though.
Anyway, Reallife, your deck has alot of synergy, but on MWS, you're going to find that it's too weak. You don't really need so many discard effects, if you're going to play madness, i suggest putting in cards like Nightshade Assassin or Psychotic Episode, remove your assassinate and premature burial and dark withering. Put in Cruel Edict, it's alot better because it can hit creatures that can't be countered. Take out the syphon-mages and maybe if you wanted to use Avatar of Woe, Add Plagued Rusalkas and other stuff that gets creatures into the grave.
Extarbags, thats what i was thinking as well. Plague Wind is...just crazy. and it's so one sided it's brilliant. I just played against this deck with gauntlet of power, he used consume spirits as the kill card. He beat me the first round because my persecute failed (he had 5 swamps in hand...what were the chances of that?!) After that he used diabolic tutor to search for answers to my threats, and finally tutored his Consume Spirit. The second round however, after his diabolic edict i persecuted and hit the jackpot. Although, he still did have 2 gauntlets of power in hand and enough mana to cast them. After he cast the gauntlets, i was able to play Garza's Assassin, Helldozer and Plague Sliver During my next turn. In two turns i killed him (Despite him being at 30+ life(he consumed me for 18).
Congrats on becoming a mod AoK =D, anyway, the way i'd use the Liege of the pit would definitely be aggro, Using cards like Grave pact, Rusalka's and More, If anything, i'm just using the liege of the pit as a 1 of hit, something that will cause an immediate win. I'll be posting a prototype soon.
Sengir, your MBA is pretty good, i know what you mean about Bad Moon, what i hate most is if the opponent is running mono-black, than that's just horrible.
Anyway, here is the deck i've been playing lately. It's Control, but it plays like an Aggro deck.
4x Garza's Assassin
3x Helldozer
3x Sengir Nosferatu
3x Plague Sliver
Spells
4x Sudden Death
4x Cruel Edict
3x Persecute
3x Phyrexian Arena
3x Soul Spike
2x Diabolic Tutor
4x Coldsteel Heart
Lands
3x Mouth of Ronom
2x Urza's factory
20x Snow-Covered Swamp
3x Nightmare Void
3x Last Gasp
3x Stronghold Overseer
3x Withered Wretch
3x Sudden Spoiling
This deck uses Acceleration in the form of Coldsteel heart, either to get an early persecute down, or a plague sliver. I use Garza's Assassin simply because it's an awesome creature. He can trade against small creatures and blow the big ones out of the water completely and he comes back too! Yes, thats why i use him, thats why i MD 4. Anyway, i've picked helldozer because he's a monster in the current format. Plague Sliver because he's a huge beater with a huge body. Sengir Nosferatu because he is the mono-black bullet dodger. Admittedly my life total tends to go pretty low, but thats just the way i like it. I use Soul Spike to keep myself alive long enough to kill. Diabolic Tutor i use because it's a good way to get what i need secretly(Unlike with transmute). Anyway, this deck has been able to take on decks like dragonstorm, solarflare and a few others. Hope you guys like it.
anyways just one recomendation for you: use scrying sheets engine. with soo many snow covered lands and the hearts you basically have 27 snow permanents you can draw with them. (not including more scrying sheets)
Recover cost is actually payable in some situations, where you need to kill something big that would swing for half of your life anyway, so it isn't useless by any means.
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Pesonally i wouldnt take 11 creature kill spells.... 4 sudden death and 4 cruel edict/Last Gasp should be more than enough. Even more so when you take garza's assasin.
Plague Sliver is a horrible win condition for control! even more so when you run just 2 of them. Theres much better options for creatures in black for a control deck that features few creatures which are:
Helldozzer, Stonghold Overseer, Sengir Nosferatu, Skeletal Vampire.
also every single one of them can take advantage from mana generated by the guantlet basicaly enhancing their mana greedy abilities to the max, save possibly the Nosferatu (who can marginally still take advantage)
Also Loxodon is right , remove the coldsteel heart andadd the Phyrexian totems. They are much better in control as they add another win condition (which your deck is lacking)
unless you really need a combo piece or somethingthe tutors will be underwhelming at best. add Phyrexian Arena which will provide for much better card advantage than the tutors.
@Loxodon: I love the MBC deck you have built, seems really consitent and powerfull. The only thing I have touble with using still is the curse of the cabal... just seems like it wont do anything.
Its a monoblack aggro deck that uses discard for madness and to put big creatures into the deck's graveyard for reanimation.
Nether Traitor is a staple, being used as sacrifice fodder to Liege of the Pit, and sacrifice trigger to Hell's Caretaker as well as obviously bringing back into play another one of its kind when they are sacrificed.
The deck is pretty self explanatory, discard the Liege of the Pits and Stronghold Overseers and reanimate them with Zombify and Hell's Caretaker.
Along with several creatures that make the player discard and Smallpox which does the same. And using the discard for madness as well.
3x Stronghold Overseer
3x Liege of the Pit
4x Nether Traitor
4x Hell's Caretaker
4x Undertaker
2x Urborg Syphon-Mage
4x Zombify
4x Call to the Netherworld
3x Smallpox
3x Dark Withering
Land (22):
22x Swamp
4x Demonic Collusion
3x Sudden Spoiling
4x Psychotic Episode
2x Urborg Syphon-Mage
2x Nightshade Assassin
Sin
:Edit: Updated to have 22x Swamp.
:Edit: Fixed autocards, too used to MTG.com forums.
K, sounds good I'll try changing it when I can, I just had a hard time fitting everything that I wanted into the deck
3 Dark Confidant
4 Dauthi Slayer
4 Nether Traitor
4 Hypnotic Specter
3 Liege of the Pit
3 Nantuko Husk
3 Sudden Spoiling
3 Sudden Death
3 Smallpox
3 Cruel Edict
3 Tendrils of Corruption
4 Bad moon
20 Swamp
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Consume Spirit
3 Darkness
3 Dread Return
other than that, nether traitor, bad moon and husk is self explanatory..(husk can save u from liege 7 damage in case u have no creature to sacrifice, or u can just sacrifice the husk itself, or otherwise just take that 7 damage, u noe u still can survive with it!! :D)
confidant to boost up ur card draw and dealing extra damage to your opponent..
cruel edict and smallpox to deal with those untergetable critters and in case u use smallpox, u can always discard your nether traitor (if you have in hand)..
in case u r low in health against some other burn deck, u can use the tendrils to regain quite a lot of life, at least 4 life :D.. and its an instant!!
actually my friend have been telling me to put jump knights but i just do not know which one i should i change..
any suggestion for improvement? (i need suggestion for the sideboard too actually :))
On Garza's Assassin: At FNM, I happened to see a really sick combo involving this guy and another card with recover, Grim Harvest. It doesn't suck so badly when you don't have to pay half your life to get it back.
"I am in the arcane, and the arcane is in me."
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Deraxas, Dark Maiden of Shimia,, still oddly obsessed with a mindmage.
any chance the mods might see fit to split this off into mbA and mbC, since they are obviously two VERY different takes (even archetypes) within mono-black...?
please. it would end some of the confusion and arguing over card choices/decklists.
again, just a suggestion
decks:
EDH - Riku, Xiahou, Konda, Azusa
modern - Past in Flames, Onmi-show
vintage - Drains, Oath
coup de grace:
The Thread justs keeps growing, Sin, Iphanx and Themchops, Welcome! Please read the first Post, it contains lots of useful information, and also contains the guidelines we follow to avoid confusion.
Firstly, Themchops, You're definitely not the first one to suggest this thread be split. And this isn't the first time i've had to say this. This thread serves a dual purpose, 1) One-Stop Shop for Discussing mono-black cards, decks(no matter what type) and combos and 2) To help each other perfect our MB decks. We have been able to do this. All with little or no confusion at all. I know the people here, if they were confused they'd speak up, and so far your the 2nd person to complain. About arguing over card choices, go to any thread you'll find arguing about card choices, go to the counterpost thread and you'll they were arguing about chord. Our arguments aren't actual arguments, it's called Discussion. I highly suggest you check out the first post, i think you'll definitely get some answers.
Hey Sin, I like your deck, ever since Reallife posted a madness/reanimator he tried making, i've been trying to make one as well. Mine however is not as good as yours. Undertaker is a card that i forgot about(forgot it was Shifted in), it was one of my favourite spellshapers without a doubt. Hmmm, lets see, if you're playing reanimator, remove call to the netherworld and put the dread return instead. Maybe put lower the number of hell's caretaker by 1 and put in 1 more smallpox. Also, since this deck will be doing quite abit of saccing, i highly suggest MDing Grave pact. Get rid of dark withering. Also try putting in Nightshade Assassin. You definitely need to Main Deck 4 sudden death.
Dur Faroth, for your deck Phyrexian totem is definitely alot better. The reason i ran coldsteel heart in my Aggro-Control is because it helps me accel to third turn plague sliver / Persecute which was very important for my deck. For yours however, Phyrexian totem should work wonders for you. Late game with 6 mana and 2 totems you get a 10 damage swing. Really good.
Iphanx, nice deck, although one thing that worries me(undoubtedly anyone else who read your decklist) Dark Confidant and Liege of the Pit. but thinking about it because you're only running 3 lieges i don't think you'll have to worry too much. Other than that your deck is very solid. Stromgald Crusader is very good. Many would speculate that alot of decks are running Desert, but i havent seen alot of them around, I highly suggest it because it has protection from white. Other than Black and Red, White has the greatest number amount of removal. The beauty of the crusader is that it can't be condemned, Faith's fetters. So put it in, and if you do that, i suggest taking out Smallpox, sometimes you just don't want to sac anything.
AoK, you know if i was on the R&D team it'd bring it back, do i get a kiss too? =P Actually, the one of the beauties of Garza's Assassin is that it is so versatile( yes the combo with Grim Harvest is Immense). Gravepact is an excellent way to boost it's power. Getting a 2 for 1.
Loxodon, you're deck is very consistent. The only thing is, Curse of the Cabal. I'm not sure about you, but i'd remove those for abit more creature removal. Smallpox isn't enough creature removal in my opinion. Because if you have you're win con out, you're going to have to sac it, unless of course you pay 3 to sac your totem. Was about to say you need last gasp, but you got it in SB, nice, About mindstab being in your SB, i think you should put in 2 nightmare void instead, when you're facing a counter heavy deck, it's the only thing that can and will save you. Maybe other cards you could try out, for a utility spell, try Gauntlet of might. For your last SB slot, you absolutely need Graveyard Destruction. Shred Memory is good because opponents can't see it coming. Withered Wretch is good because you can always use it.
One thing, i was watching my brother play his MBC against an Enduring Renewal combo deck and he was getting raped pretty badly. Opponent played a 1000 damage Grapeshot using wild cantor. I realized that this deck might be a big problem for MB. Until i read enduring renewal. The effect is not a replacement effect, rather, it's triggered. So for a short while the creature will be in the grave. You can remove the creature from the picture entirely using graveyard removal, his recurrence will stop. Another way of stopping the combo, kill the creature on your turn, then discard it.
Thats why, i think from now on we need to start keep at least one slot for Recurrable Graveyard Hosing. Personally, i don't think Tormod's crypt is sufficient here, we may neeed withered wretch or Moratorium stone. Shred Memory would also be good.
A thought on MB Sideboards, there are some cards that we absolutely cannot do without. One of them is Nightmare Void. The reason why we need this is simple. With the return of Blue Counter Control, nightmare void is the only way to get through that wall of counters. Also, it helps against decks which are heavy with destruction effects. As i mentioned earlier we absolutely need to devote at least 1 slot in our SB for graveyard destruction, this slot, i'm not totally sure what is the best but I'd go with Withered Wretch. What do you think?
Anyway, Here's my Latest MBA
It's been very good to me, hope you guys like it
4x Nether Traitor
4x Garza's Assassin
4x Dauthi Slayer
4x Dark Confidant
4x Hypnotic Specter
4x Sudden Death
4x Funeral Charm
4x Last Gasp
3x Smallpox
3x Gravepact
4x Withered Wretch
4x Deathmark
3x Nightmare Void
3x Sudden Spoiling
So Far this deck has been running beautifully. 61 Cards in a deck is pretty optimum, though the chances are not maxed out, it still very consistent, 61 cards is the absolute highest deck size i will go to, after that consistence suffers greatly. Try it, you might like it. =D
ON all of the runs one of two things have happened: 1. It helped me win a game I was gona clearly win anyways (so it did nothing except be a really really bad and slow LD spell) or 2. did absolutely nothing since my oponent was able to keep it suspended for ever.
The reason the curse is soo bad is that a single permanent someone sacrifices stalls the curse 2 more turns, someone can easily and i repeat easily take the permanent advantage right there and keep it stalled until it no longer is any threat.
@iphanx: Confidants should go, with so many 3 mana cost cards 50% of the time youll be taking 2-3 damage a turn. Lets not forget also the leige of the pit causing trouble and whaching you for 8 damage in one turn because of a confidant. IN any case take the phyrexian arena not confidants in your deck.
@SyNide: for grave removal the best options are the withered wretch and the tormod's crypt. one is reusable and agressive providing both a great creature, with relevant creatyure types, and a more than relevant ability. The second one a gigantic way to just remove the grave from play inmediately.
In case enduring renewal gets nasty theres also the option of leyline of the void, absolutely ruining their combo. but the wretch and the crypt should be enough for the time being until the graveyards really needs some hate.
There isn't single mono-black card that says "destroy target creature (fullstop)". Dark Banishing says "destroy target NONBLACK creature" and it isn't good to use. Also becuz this thread is only for mono-black, i don't recommand to use Mortify.
[deck]
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Hypnotic Specter
3 Mindslicer
1 Abyssal Nocturnus
2 Dimir Guildmage
2 Dark Confidant
2 Muse Vessel
4 The Rack
4 Funeral Charm
4 Stupor
2 Persecute
3 Cry of Contrition
4 Sudden Death
2 Mouth of Ronom
2 Scrying Sheets
18 Snow-Covered Swamp
Sideboard
3 Plagued Rusalka
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Last Gasp
4 Cruel Edict
[\deck]
Let me know what you think. Prett solid against anything that isn't rediculously fast. Sideboard should help against aggro.
Currently playing: BBBDiscardBBB
"So I drink to health, while you kill yourself..."