well boys and girls i played my mbc deck friday and went 2-2 i could not find the correct cards at the correct times. what i did see a lot of is rats and ww. now one would think that mbc could get around this but i could not. i lost the first round in less than five minutes to a rat deck. then won against some noob (felt bad i think he was juststarting) then won againt a jank green deck. then i could not belive this, lost to a green red deck that ran threaten!!!!! well when you dont prepare for stuff like that you pay for it. i really think im going to go to the rat version mono black because mbc is just not fast enough. let me know what you guys think.
Can you post up the list you used? Because that would give many more indicators as to what went wrong... since aggro is by far the easiest matchup for me.
i coudnt find the cards when i needed them. i saw the NoSB only once in eight games. should i make smoe adjustments
wow...you lost to rats with this?? how? id have to hear more about what went wrong to help here, this deck should have beaten rats down.the only thing i'd recommend off the top of my head is another arena. if their discard gets going strong i could see it hurting you, but the arena helps nullify that.
So, as the promised land of Ravnica is on display--I've stopped using cards from Mirrodion to prepare myself for the cycle. Here's my current decklist.
I'm currently looking at this as a viable, post-ravnica build. I expect the metagame to include--Black Hand, WW, R-W weenie, B/G Rock, U/B control, and U/W control.
The Hideous Laughters are meant to wreck Black Hand, WW, and R-W weenie. The hand disruption is meant to annoy any blue deck, and also to slow down any agro build.
So far, playtesting post-Rav--using proxies from Rav and all--I have an auto-win over my friend's U/W control. This guy's favorite archetype is U/W, and he's very good at making viable builds of it.
If there are any outstanding cards in Ravnica that deserve a spot--please let me know.
Perhaps the 1B intant target creature gets -3/-3 over the whisper?
???
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Originally Posted by Lucifer (pssst it's frucile, not fucile. can't be an annogram without that r.)
Sure it is -- but you'd be "Ice Flu" then. :slant:
The sideboard is very iffy right now, as I'm unsure about what the popular decks will be... but I figure it's a very solid choice. Naturalize in the board compliments the deck very well, as it can destroy problematic enchantments that may pop up, as well as providing some extra artifact hate. The Pithing Needles accomplish a similar job, but can turn off some random cards or even Transmute if it becomes somewhat big... And that's a nice thing. Again though, it's hard to know without a metagame... But the putrefy's are VERY solid... the shoals have been included since i'm anticipating aggro to be very quick (R/W is looking pretty strong, and W/G has a couple of really quick beaters) so i'd rather be able to get out of that quickly... as well as being able to dodge hokori locks more easily.
Depending on how things go, i may switch the deck to become more controllish against aggro or more against opposing control... so we'll have to see, but that's the build I'm looking at a lot, since the green splash is VERY appealing to me... the painlands AND shocklands are kind of harsh... but i think that the deck would need them in order to be able to reliably power out putrefy and naturalize without any problems... i may have to look into another source for life gain, since this deck only has Kokusho and Miren to gain life, and i may quickly deplete my life with the new duals and the pains...
where are your plage boilers????
u must have these in if u splash green, heck u should have them in if u didnt.
how about the new land searching from rav that will let u get the duals??
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i've tested plague boiler and it isn't that great. granted 1-2 is nice. i've been testing mbc and rock and found that plague boiler is only useful about 15-20% of the time. meaning that you don't need to draw it every game. i only run 2 right now and that seems to work out fine. my suggestion would be add 1 if you aren't worried too much about the intense aggro builds or 2 if you are. like i said, i play 2 and it runs nicely.
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i don't like plague boiler at ALL... and there's no reason to search out the lands, the only reason theyre in there is to facilitate the splash, it isn't top priority (i have 12 green sources, and for 4 cards, thats a lot)
i dont like the boiler since it sucks up a LOT of mana if you need to use it right away, and a lot over time if you don't want to use it right away... oblivion stone is strictly better IMO... and that wasn't run before, so this won't be either.
The sideboard is very iffy right now, as I'm unsure about what the popular decks will be... but I figure it's a very solid choice. Naturalize in the board compliments the deck very well, as it can destroy problematic enchantments that may pop up, as well as providing some extra artifact hate. The Pithing Needles accomplish a similar job, but can turn off some random cards or even Transmute if it becomes somewhat big... And that's a nice thing. Again though, it's hard to know without a metagame... But the putrefy's are VERY solid... the shoals have been included since i'm anticipating aggro to be very quick (R/W is looking pretty strong, and W/G has a couple of really quick beaters) so i'd rather be able to get out of that quickly... as well as being able to dodge hokori locks more easily.
Depending on how things go, i may switch the deck to become more controllish against aggro or more against opposing control... so we'll have to see, but that's the build I'm looking at a lot, since the green splash is VERY appealing to me... the painlands AND shocklands are kind of harsh... but i think that the deck would need them in order to be able to reliably power out putrefy and naturalize without any problems... i may have to look into another source for life gain, since this deck only has Kokusho and Miren to gain life, and i may quickly deplete my life with the new duals and the pains...
you got a WHOLE lot of creature kill going there mike, you think all that is needed? im going to stick with persecute in the md because with all the gold cards you'll usually hit about the same amount of cards as before. im also going to run consume spirit in the md, with all the painlands your running and 4 arenas i think you'll need more life gain than just kokusho. im going to run the signet and waste, i don't think 8 painlands are needed for just putrefy and naturalize out of the board.
Nope, like decimate there MUST be the required targets in play. True, you can blow up a couple of your own creatures if you must, but the deck's not exactly critter-heavy.
I see MbC turing into a U/B control deck with some of the new Dimir Creatures and cards.
i don't see this, the dimir creatures are pretty weak unless you build the deck around them. and most of the u/b cards have to do with milling, and thats not the direction im taking my deck. im sticking with mono black, i've seen very little to make me want to go full on 2 colors. maybe a small splash of green, but thats about it.
i don't see this, the dimir creatures are pretty weak unless you build the deck around them. and most of the u/b cards have to do with milling, and thats not the direction im taking my deck. im sticking with mono black, i've seen very little to make me want to go full on 2 colors. maybe a small splash of green, but thats about it.
Yeah, well we have gifts ungiven, we have these new tutors. Black/Blue all of a sudden becomes this toolbox utility color, capable of running Countermagic, bounce, and removal. Follow that up with finishers, and you've basically got an MbC theme, twisted to fit 2 colors. Here are the cards I think are playable in a U/B deck:
Szadek, Lord of secrets Psychic Drain Perplex Moroii Dimir Doppelganger Clutch of the Undercity Circu, Dimir Lobotomist Sins of the Past Necroplasm Necromantic Thirst Moonlight Bargain Last Gasp Dimir Machinations Telling Time Muddle the Mixture Induce Paranoia Hunted Phantasm Convolute
The only thing I am concerned about is the lack of reliable instant card draw. Have they gotten away from that forever?
@squigles: If it was a /:symb: deck then it wouldn't be MBC. If you were to splash a couple of cards I could see it still being MBC but if your going to add 3 or 4 cards I think you will be posting in another thread.
A few cards from Ravnica that could see play in MBC.
Moonlight Bargain . looking at the top 5 cards at instant speed is strong. If your looking for that 1 card then paying 2 life to get a Kagemaro First to Suffer , or that winning Consume Spirit is well worth it. I was thinking of running 2 in my deck.
Last Gasp . -3/-3 for 2 mana at instant speed.
Helldozer. He is a 6/5 for 6 mana which is strong on its own. Add in the LD aspect and he looks like a pretty good deal for his casting cost. Only downside is LD isn't all that strong when you start blowing up lands on turn 7. By then your opponent should have his land base pretty much established. Blowing up a few might not matter.
Sins of the Past. This card would be killer if their was a Corrupt variant in Ravnica. Now for 5 mana all you can pretty much do is recycle your removal spells and discard for free. Still might get used though. A fourth turn Cranial Extraction followed next turn by Sins would be sort of nasty. All that aside, I don't think that I would run anymore then 2.
Necroplasm. Recuring removal for 3 mana seems strong against WW and other aggro builds. Downside is that it isn't a may, you have to put a counter on it each upkeep. The Dredge ability makes it strong as you can bring it back when you need it.
Gleancrawler . With its guild mana you can play him a MBC deck without any drawbacks, and you could have a 6/6 trampler for 6 mana that could possibly help you recure your Kagemaro, or Kokusho the Evening Star each turn. Don't know if MBC could support both Gleancralwer and Kokusho since they both are 6cc creatures. Running both could slow the deck down to much.
In a post in the old MBC thread I said that I didn't like to splash other colors into the MD of my MBC deck. Well with cards like Putrefy I might have to change my position on that. Putrefy is very strong and helps MBC get rid of artifacts, and at instant speed also.
Not all these cards are worthy of getting played, and probably must won't, but these seem like the best cards that Ravnica offers MBC.
i have learned the hard way that mox is not the way to go. even with the arena losing 4 cards on the first play (swamp, mox, and then your disard, then distress) is too hard to recover from. so im going to the tailsman. i also moved the persecute and the matrix to the board. more times than not matrix was a dead card, and with all these small creature decks running around my opponets hand is almost empty before i can cast the persecute. (ie. rats,ww, and mono green) i also added more removal with cruel edict and added 2 kagemaro to the main instead of the board. all comments welcome, please let me know what you guys think.
This is my new version of MBC. I was playing a version without acceleration, but in our area thier is alot of aggro decks that have been overwhelming slower control decks. So I added in Chrome Mox as accleration and it has helped quite a bit. Pithing Needle has been a nice way to deal with equipment and creatures like Eight and a Half Tails I have some trouble with Black Hand since most creatures toughness 3 so Hideous Laughter and Night of Soul's Betrayal are sort of usless. Quicksand is much better IMO then Stalking Stones . Everytime I got a Quicksand I know it will be able to help me out early or late.
The SB is sort of tailored for the enviroment that I play in. Their is alot of WW with Hand of Honor and such so I am trying out Razormane as support against weenies. The Beacon doesn't get used all that much, but the reasoning for running it was so I could get my creatures. Also I have been able to steal some of my opponents equipment out of the graveyard after they discard it.
I played some games today against R/G Wildfire and I won 5 and lost 1. I tried to get out a Arena as quickly as possible in my games so that if and when he played Wildfire, I would be getting 2 cards per turn and recovering quicker then he. Sickening Shoal was a savior in 3 of the games when he played Wildfire and I didn't have any lands I was still able to kill of his creatures that survived with the Shoal.
My kill in most of the games was Yukora. I would drop him on turn 3 and say " go ahead and Wildfire now". Being able to drop him down so early really screwed my opponents plans.
While the games were going on I was thinking about cards from Ravnica, and trying to think if they would be more helpful then some of the cards that I am playing know. I think that Last Grasp would be a welcome addition to the deck. Quite a few times I was thinking that it would help me in some situations. Having both Cruel Edict and Last Grasp makes the deck a little quicker. I might try them in place of Horobi's Whisper next time I play and see how they do.
Well all comments are welcome. If you see something that could be altered or if you think some other cards from Ravnica would work better by all means speak up.
so what I'm seeing on this thread is a mix of current T2, and theorized post-rotation builds.
Let's focus--let's try to just talk about post-rotation. It's that close, and many other threads all already analzing expected metagames in the new T2 enviroment. If we want MBC to be as powerful as we believe it could be--let's do the same. That said:
ok--this is a rough draft of a post rotation build. YOu'll notice that the deck sports both hand disruption and creature hate. That's because I think that RW weenie, new builds of black hand, and possible GW weenie will be just as prevalent as neo-rock, gifts ungiven, and possibly u/w control.
The initial deck is supposed to be flexible enough to hold it's own against both aggro and control 1st game.
In SB against aggro, I'll drop in hideous laughter, taking out cruel edicts.
Against u/w control, I'll load up on discard w/ waking nightmare, cranial, and pithing needle--removing all my kill spells other than putrefy (opening up 11 spots, as I expect them to only run Melunku, and possibly Yosei).
Against neo-rock, I'll take out last grasp, and drop in cranial extraction (naming cranial extraction with the first one I see). I'll also take out sickening shoal and add either persecute or waking nightmare, depending on their build.
Against gifts, Ill take out last grasp and shoal, and add pithing needle and cranial extraction. I'd also consider taking out my cruel edicts for additional discard.
Finnally, against wildfires I'd have to take out all of my creature hate (save putrefy) and load up on the cranial and discard idea. Them resolving a wildfires against me could often be gg--as their mana base will be much more consistant, and easier for them to fix and gain board control.
PLEASE COMMENT!
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Quote from Bardo »
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucifer (pssst it's frucile, not fucile. can't be an annogram without that r.)
Sure it is -- but you'd be "Ice Flu" then. :slant:
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Thanks to xeno for the sig and avvy!!!
4 distress
3 sickening shoal
4 rend flesh
3 night of souls' betrayal
3 damping matirx
4 hideous laughter
3 persecute
3 yukora
4 kokusho the evening star
3 pyhrexian arena
4 quicksand
1 tomb of urami
1 miren moaning well
1 shizo death's storehouse
4 cranial extraction
4 defense grid
4 barter in blood
2 kagemaro
1 persecute
i coudnt find the cards when i needed them. i saw the NoSB only once in eight games. should i make smoe adjustments
Thanks to xeno for the sig and avvy!!!
wow...you lost to rats with this?? how? id have to hear more about what went wrong to help here, this deck should have beaten rats down.the only thing i'd recommend off the top of my head is another arena. if their discard gets going strong i could see it hurting you, but the arena helps nullify that.
u dont have any life gain so when u play you arena u lose too much life right??
try adding consume spirit, it realy helps
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2x kokusho
3x phyrexian arena
3x sickening shoal
1x Night of Souls Betrayal
1x Goyro's Vengence
3x diabolic tutor
4x hideous laughter
4x blackmail
4x distress
3x consume spirit
3x horobi's whisper
3x cruel edict
3x quicksand
19x swamp
3x Cranial extraction
3x waking nightmare
3x pithing needle
3x dimir colored stop search abilities instant thingy
I'm currently looking at this as a viable, post-ravnica build. I expect the metagame to include--Black Hand, WW, R-W weenie, B/G Rock, U/B control, and U/W control.
The Hideous Laughters are meant to wreck Black Hand, WW, and R-W weenie. The hand disruption is meant to annoy any blue deck, and also to slow down any agro build.
So far, playtesting post-Rav--using proxies from Rav and all--I have an auto-win over my friend's U/W control. This guy's favorite archetype is U/W, and he's very good at making viable builds of it.
If there are any outstanding cards in Ravnica that deserve a spot--please let me know.
Perhaps the 1B intant target creature gets -3/-3 over the whisper?
???
4x Kokusho, the Evening Star
3x Yukora, the Prisoner
2x Kagemaro
Spells:
4x Phyrexian Arena
4x Cruel Edict
4x Putrefy
4x Golgari Signet
4x Distress
2x Night of Souls' Betrayal
3x Hideous Laughter
3x Sickening Shoal
1x Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1x Miren, the Moaning Well
1x Tomb of Urami
4x Quicksand
4x Overgrown Tomb
4x Llanowar Wastes
8x Swamp
4x Cranial Extraction
4x Persecute
4x Naturalize
3x Pithing Needle
The sideboard is very iffy right now, as I'm unsure about what the popular decks will be... but I figure it's a very solid choice. Naturalize in the board compliments the deck very well, as it can destroy problematic enchantments that may pop up, as well as providing some extra artifact hate. The Pithing Needles accomplish a similar job, but can turn off some random cards or even Transmute if it becomes somewhat big... And that's a nice thing. Again though, it's hard to know without a metagame... But the putrefy's are VERY solid... the shoals have been included since i'm anticipating aggro to be very quick (R/W is looking pretty strong, and W/G has a couple of really quick beaters) so i'd rather be able to get out of that quickly... as well as being able to dodge hokori locks more easily.
Depending on how things go, i may switch the deck to become more controllish against aggro or more against opposing control... so we'll have to see, but that's the build I'm looking at a lot, since the green splash is VERY appealing to me... the painlands AND shocklands are kind of harsh... but i think that the deck would need them in order to be able to reliably power out putrefy and naturalize without any problems... i may have to look into another source for life gain, since this deck only has Kokusho and Miren to gain life, and i may quickly deplete my life with the new duals and the pains...
u must have these in if u splash green, heck u should have them in if u didnt.
how about the new land searching from rav that will let u get the duals??
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i dont like the boiler since it sucks up a LOT of mana if you need to use it right away, and a lot over time if you don't want to use it right away... oblivion stone is strictly better IMO... and that wasn't run before, so this won't be either.
you got a WHOLE lot of creature kill going there mike, you think all that is needed? im going to stick with persecute in the md because with all the gold cards you'll usually hit about the same amount of cards as before. im also going to run consume spirit in the md, with all the painlands your running and 4 arenas i think you'll need more life gain than just kokusho. im going to run the signet and waste, i don't think 8 painlands are needed for just putrefy and naturalize out of the board.
Leche de cabra, azucar, glucosa, carbonato.
(no contiene colorantes ni saborizantes artificiales).
:spirit2:
maybe sb against a creatury deck...
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Leche de cabra, azucar, glucosa, carbonato.
(no contiene colorantes ni saborizantes artificiales).
:spirit2:
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i don't see this, the dimir creatures are pretty weak unless you build the deck around them. and most of the u/b cards have to do with milling, and thats not the direction im taking my deck. im sticking with mono black, i've seen very little to make me want to go full on 2 colors. maybe a small splash of green, but thats about it.
Yeah, well we have gifts ungiven, we have these new tutors. Black/Blue all of a sudden becomes this toolbox utility color, capable of running Countermagic, bounce, and removal. Follow that up with finishers, and you've basically got an MbC theme, twisted to fit 2 colors. Here are the cards I think are playable in a U/B deck:
Szadek, Lord of secrets
Psychic Drain
Perplex
Moroii
Dimir Doppelganger
Clutch of the Undercity
Circu, Dimir Lobotomist
Sins of the Past
Necroplasm
Necromantic Thirst
Moonlight Bargain
Last Gasp
Dimir Machinations
Telling Time
Muddle the Mixture
Induce Paranoia
Hunted Phantasm
Convolute
The only thing I am concerned about is the lack of reliable instant card draw. Have they gotten away from that forever?
A few cards from Ravnica that could see play in MBC.
Not all these cards are worthy of getting played, and probably must won't, but these seem like the best cards that Ravnica offers MBC.
4 distress
4 cruel edict
3 sickening shoal
4 rend flesh
3 Phyrexian Arena
4 hideous laughter
3 yukora the prison
2 Kagemaro, First to Suffer
4 kokusho the evening star
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
1 tomb of urami
4 quicksand
4 defense grid
4 peresecute
3 damping matrix
i have learned the hard way that mox is not the way to go. even with the arena losing 4 cards on the first play (swamp, mox, and then your disard, then distress) is too hard to recover from. so im going to the tailsman. i also moved the persecute and the matrix to the board. more times than not matrix was a dead card, and with all these small creature decks running around my opponets hand is almost empty before i can cast the persecute. (ie. rats,ww, and mono green) i also added more removal with cruel edict and added 2 kagemaro to the main instead of the board. all comments welcome, please let me know what you guys think.
Thanks to xeno for the sig and avvy!!!
Leche de cabra, azucar, glucosa, carbonato.
(no contiene colorantes ni saborizantes artificiales).
:spirit2:
Thanks to xeno for the sig and avvy!!!
Pithing Needle has been a nice way to deal with equipment and creatures like Eight and a Half Tails
I have some trouble with Black Hand since most creatures toughness 3 so Hideous Laughter and Night of Soul's Betrayal are sort of usless. Quicksand is much better IMO then Stalking Stones . Everytime I got a Quicksand I know it will be able to help me out early or late.
The SB is sort of tailored for the enviroment that I play in. Their is alot of WW with Hand of Honor and such so I am trying out Razormane as support against weenies. The Beacon doesn't get used all that much, but the reasoning for running it was so I could get my creatures. Also I have been able to steal some of my opponents equipment out of the graveyard after they discard it.
I played some games today against R/G Wildfire and I won 5 and lost 1. I tried to get out a Arena as quickly as possible in my games so that if and when he played Wildfire, I would be getting 2 cards per turn and recovering quicker then he. Sickening Shoal was a savior in 3 of the games when he played Wildfire and I didn't have any lands I was still able to kill of his creatures that survived with the Shoal.
My kill in most of the games was Yukora. I would drop him on turn 3 and say " go ahead and Wildfire now". Being able to drop him down so early really screwed my opponents plans.
While the games were going on I was thinking about cards from Ravnica, and trying to think if they would be more helpful then some of the cards that I am playing know. I think that Last Grasp would be a welcome addition to the deck. Quite a few times I was thinking that it would help me in some situations. Having both Cruel Edict and Last Grasp makes the deck a little quicker. I might try them in place of Horobi's Whisper next time I play and see how they do.
Well all comments are welcome. If you see something that could be altered or if you think some other cards from Ravnica would work better by all means speak up.
Let's focus--let's try to just talk about post-rotation. It's that close, and many other threads all already analzing expected metagames in the new T2 enviroment. If we want MBC to be as powerful as we believe it could be--let's do the same. That said:
4x distress
3x sicking shoal
3x phyrexian arena
4x putrefy
4x last grasp
4x cruel edict
3x moonlight bargain
3x kagemaro
2x kokusho
3x consume spirit
4x llanowar wastes
1x shizo, death's storehouse
15x swamp
3x cranial extraction
3x pithing needle
3x persecute
3x waking nightmare
3x hideous laughter
ok--this is a rough draft of a post rotation build. YOu'll notice that the deck sports both hand disruption and creature hate. That's because I think that RW weenie, new builds of black hand, and possible GW weenie will be just as prevalent as neo-rock, gifts ungiven, and possibly u/w control.
The initial deck is supposed to be flexible enough to hold it's own against both aggro and control 1st game.
In SB against aggro, I'll drop in hideous laughter, taking out cruel edicts.
Against u/w control, I'll load up on discard w/ waking nightmare, cranial, and pithing needle--removing all my kill spells other than putrefy (opening up 11 spots, as I expect them to only run Melunku, and possibly Yosei).
Against neo-rock, I'll take out last grasp, and drop in cranial extraction (naming cranial extraction with the first one I see). I'll also take out sickening shoal and add either persecute or waking nightmare, depending on their build.
Against gifts, Ill take out last grasp and shoal, and add pithing needle and cranial extraction. I'd also consider taking out my cruel edicts for additional discard.
Finnally, against wildfires I'd have to take out all of my creature hate (save putrefy) and load up on the cranial and discard idea. Them resolving a wildfires against me could often be gg--as their mana base will be much more consistant, and easier for them to fix and gain board control.
PLEASE COMMENT!