meh, I doubt you're keeping Truth in VS red decks anyway. I could see Kira being useful, if a disproportionately large portion of your metagame was red, but other than that, black is such an autowin anyway that it hardly matters.
I was told today that this kid on my team called 911 twice this morning and hung up both times. They called back and his dad answered. The reason the kid called 911? He got an erection and didn't know what to do. I wish I was making this up.
Has anyone messed around with a black splash for extraction and/or decay? I am curious to how effective that would be or if it would just water the deck down. I have been thinking about using this deck instead of G/w. Can anyone give specific details about the matchup between this and B/G? I already know this deck has as good a chance as any other vs. Affinitah, it owns TNN most of the time, & always owns G/w.
i don't think RtD will be bad just because it costs 5. it's still good, for the same reasons, just comes out 1 turn later.
I've been looking at the spoiler a bit, and, just throwing out a random suggestion, what about Tendo's Ice Bridge? it can tap for U or G when it comes out, and during early game that can be important. Sure, it changes to colorless, but there are still many uses for colorless mana. I thought this card "meh" at best, but i learned that it is not legendary, and also, you can bounce it with meloku. That means that meloku's "downside" can also be a good thing, because you can play the bridge again with the charge counter.
EDIT: forgot to say, the Ice Bridge can also tap for B or R for extraction or blood moon.
RTD is pretty much unplayable now. Its a 5 mana sorcery that you hope will hose the fastest deck in the format. If it was an instant, then there is an outside chance it could be useful but now you can't even trick them in combat or wait till their end step. You've bounced everything back to their hand, but they simply use the turn you've given them to play everything again.
Even rebuild wasn't a silver bullet - and this is no rebuild.
I like it better than CoBrass, honestly, + Meloku breaks it down. This deck can't scoff @ manafixing!! Take a second look, please. Feel free to Dismiss then. Wait.. Wait... Yeah, HKKID hits it, also read this As far as the Ice Bridge goes, I just find it too much of a gamble. Sometimes, yes, that one mana is all you need, but if you're screwed out of a colour, that one shot will get something on the table, but often enough it'll just be too much of an 'eggs in one basket' type-thing and then you have a land that's all-but useless as far as you're concerned. which spells it out nicely.
Anything else in BoK that opens this deck? Also, is it just me, or does this block encourage the enemy colors heaps? Soulshift in :symb::symg:. Splice in :symu::symr::symw:. :symu::symg: control pwns0rz etc. ?
edit - sorry, were we discussing a cmc:5mana: sorcery in Standard??
Here's an idea- Use Mistblade Shinobi instead of whatever other bounce you're running to take extra advantage of Shamans/Witnesses. Another idea is the Blue/Green Genjus, because if they are playing 'cloud, they are amazing. They also turn your extra land into beaters/chumpers.
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nawh... If I was using one of the Ninjitsu guys, it would be Ninja of the Deep Hours. Recursive card draw is very powerful, and even in the worst case scenario at least he cantrips.
Tendo seems less useful than ordinary lands, since if you draw it early, you can only use it to generate colored mana once, which opens up even more possibilities for color screw. I definately don't plan on giving them a serious look at all.
I was told today that this kid on my team called 911 twice this morning and hung up both times. They called back and his dad answered. The reason the kid called 911? He got an erection and didn't know what to do. I wish I was making this up.
@goblinmedics: Mistblade shinobi, unfortunately, can only target THEIR creatures...
@HKKID: why would you take e-truths out against red? they bounce slogger, kumano, slith etc. so you can untap and counter them...I really think you should keep them in...
I really dont know what to get from BoK...maybe Isao against mirror and monoU? he seems like a beater to me...he cant be countered, regenerates (without the mana issues of troll) and just flat out kills witnesses and shamans.
Also, I really like the tendo ice bridge....probably only 2...I DO have mana issues, at least in the early game, and having extra mana of one colour when I need it seems good.
Well... I umm don't have them maindecked (and never did), so I couldn't be taking them out in that matchup ;-). However, I do tend to replace my Oxidizes with E-Truth in game 2. Game 3 somewhat depends on if I think he's got slith in. Without Slith Firewalker I'm not particularly fond of using Echoing TruthThat said, they do tend to replace oxidizes in game 2.
It also depends a bit on the build. Against an opponent who'se not going for the Chrome Mox-Seething Song plan, Echoing Truth is way less useful, since it's not likely to generate you 2 million points of card advantage by bouncing that turn 2 arc slogger, when you're on the draw.
I was told today that this kid on my team called 911 twice this morning and hung up both times. They called back and his dad answered. The reason the kid called 911? He got an erection and didn't know what to do. I wish I was making this up.
i see NotDH is some decks. it works really well with eternal witness. fast enough and you can really control the matchup. you play witness, next turn counter whatever, swing with witness, bounce, NotDH, draw, play witness, counter back to hand. BAM! ooooh good.
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credit to dementia blader
Currently Playing:
Ponza
:symu::symg: Control
In Contstruction:
:symr::symb: Powerhouse
LOL , yes Jens is still played and ofton works well , but kodama's reach just works better in most people's opinions
Well duh. It goes active with 1 less land (and is thus usually a turn faster), AND it gives you the second card right away (even if it is just another land). Oh, and did I mention it secures your land drop for next turn as well?
Sfyosif: In a shamless act of self promotion, go look here for my decklist.
I was told today that this kid on my team called 911 twice this morning and hung up both times. They called back and his dad answered. The reason the kid called 911? He got an erection and didn't know what to do. I wish I was making this up.
I tested Ninphidian quite a bit yesterday, and I love it... The card is so useful, whether it's turning a late-game STE into card advantage, or doing Witness tricks, the Ninja dominates!
The only thing i don't like about the Ninphidian is that it's bad against affinity. How often are you going to have an unblocked attacker against affinity, and, for that matter, how ofter are you going to be attacking? I suppose with shackles it gets better, but even so, it's something to think about. Then again, i haven't gotten around to testing it at all yet, so i wouldn't know. Just speculation.
@ButteBlues18: Shackles IS good. sure, it may get hit by shaman. But the pros greatly outweight the cons. Think about it. Shackles take disciples, affinity beatsticks like enforcers if they don't have a disciple out, even nexi. Against control, while it might get hit by shaman, it can also take shaman, take witness, take Kokusho, take Keiga, and take Meloku. One of the main reasons i don't have meloku in my build at this point is because of shackles. Which brings me to my next point.
I'm not sure Meloku is really needed in UG at this point. While providing chumpers, and winning slowly, meloku is more of a stalling card to draw rude awakening. So, why not just run more rude awakening instead? Sure, there are times when you'd rather have a meloku than a rude, but there are far more times when you'd rather have a rude then a meloku. IMO, however, 4 rude is too much. i'd suggest 3, and then another slot for some 3-of that you're making a 4-of, or even 2 rude awakening, if you really want to, although i'm not sure that's the best idea. Again, i think the best number is probably three. Unlike the Ninja issue, however, i do have testing to back up my ideas. I'm working on two different builds of UG right now; One more artifact-oriented, with baubles and thirsts, and one less so, with Ninjas and STEs. As i said, i haven't gotten to test the Ninja yet, but the artifact version seems to be working out pretty well, although we'll see what happens on Feb. 20th. I'll post my build(s) at a later date when they are more refined.
Shackles isn't getting hit a "couple of times" in game 1... Every non-affinity deck I play against is killing Shackles before it can be of any use in game 1, and I have to remove them during sideboarding because of it...
Echoing Truth is good against EVERYTHING in the format, and allows for Witness tricks and Ninphidian tricks.
As for Ninphidian, Affinity often doesn't know what to do... On turn 2 or 3, they see an STE attacking... Do they block and let me fetch a land while they lose a critter, or do they let it through and hope I don't have a man with Ninjutsu? It has a lot of power with being able to "play" the other player.
Meloku is a house. I hardly kill with RA lately because I'm kiling people with Meloku by the time I have hit 8 mana... There are next to no flyers in the environment, and Meloku not only provides a decent evasion body himself, but produces HORDES of other creatures with evasion... With Witnesses and everything running amuck, attacking with a bunch of 2/2 lands often results in losing a chunk of those lands and not killing the opponent.
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I've been looking at the spoiler a bit, and, just throwing out a random suggestion, what about Tendo's Ice Bridge? it can tap for U or G when it comes out, and during early game that can be important. Sure, it changes to colorless, but there are still many uses for colorless mana. I thought this card "meh" at best, but i learned that it is not legendary, and also, you can bounce it with meloku. That means that meloku's "downside" can also be a good thing, because you can play the bridge again with the charge counter.
EDIT: forgot to say, the Ice Bridge can also tap for B or R for extraction or blood moon.
Even rebuild wasn't a silver bullet - and this is no rebuild.
Anything else in BoK that opens this deck? Also, is it just me, or does this block encourage the enemy colors heaps? Soulshift in :symb::symg:. Splice in :symu::symr::symw:. :symu::symg: control pwns0rz etc. ?
edit - sorry, were we discussing a cmc:5mana: sorcery in Standard??
Tendo seems less useful than ordinary lands, since if you draw it early, you can only use it to generate colored mana once, which opens up even more possibilities for color screw. I definately don't plan on giving them a serious look at all.
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I'll let you all know if I discover anything.
@HKKID: why would you take e-truths out against red? they bounce slogger, kumano, slith etc. so you can untap and counter them...I really think you should keep them in...
I really dont know what to get from BoK...maybe Isao against mirror and monoU? he seems like a beater to me...he cant be countered, regenerates (without the mana issues of troll) and just flat out kills witnesses and shamans.
Also, I really like the tendo ice bridge....probably only 2...I DO have mana issues, at least in the early game, and having extra mana of one colour when I need it seems good.
-=T2=-
:symu::symg: Control
It also depends a bit on the build. Against an opponent who'se not going for the Chrome Mox-Seething Song plan, Echoing Truth is way less useful, since it's not likely to generate you 2 million points of card advantage by bouncing that turn 2 arc slogger, when you're on the draw.
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How... what... is Solomn still making the rounds? *checks sig* Oh boy.
Well, let us know how it works out, gm, I am still tinkering.
-=T2=-
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credit to dementia blader
Currently Playing:
Ponza
:symu::symg: Control
In Contstruction:
:symr::symb: Powerhouse
Affinity and T&N matchups
Ponza: Aff: W-6 L-5 T&N: W-17 L-21
UG Control: Aff: W-8 L-0(still unbeaten!) T&N: W-5 L-3 T-1
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The Story of Raffinity
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=100284#post100284
Get em ' While they're Hot!!
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Goblin Revenge
Well duh. It goes active with 1 less land (and is thus usually a turn faster), AND it gives you the second card right away (even if it is just another land). Oh, and did I mention it secures your land drop for next turn as well?
Sfyosif: In a shamless act of self promotion, go look here for my decklist.
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My current List
10 Island
1 Mountain
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Kodama's Reach
4 Mana Leak
4 Hinder
3 Serum Visions
3 Ninja of the Deep Hours
4 Eternal Witness
3 Viridian Shaman
3 Echoing Truth
2 Oxidize
2 Meloku, the Clouded Mirror
2 Rude Awakening
3 Blood Moon
4 Relic Barrier
4 Quash
2 Oxidize
2 Engineered Explosives (undecided)
Some notable exclusions included Vedalken Shackles and March of the Machines...
Shackles was too often being hit by Shamans, and I found that Echoing Truth tended to be more useful in general.
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@ButteBlues18: Shackles IS good. sure, it may get hit by shaman. But the pros greatly outweight the cons. Think about it. Shackles take disciples, affinity beatsticks like enforcers if they don't have a disciple out, even nexi. Against control, while it might get hit by shaman, it can also take shaman, take witness, take Kokusho, take Keiga, and take Meloku. One of the main reasons i don't have meloku in my build at this point is because of shackles. Which brings me to my next point.
I'm not sure Meloku is really needed in UG at this point. While providing chumpers, and winning slowly, meloku is more of a stalling card to draw rude awakening. So, why not just run more rude awakening instead? Sure, there are times when you'd rather have a meloku than a rude, but there are far more times when you'd rather have a rude then a meloku. IMO, however, 4 rude is too much. i'd suggest 3, and then another slot for some 3-of that you're making a 4-of, or even 2 rude awakening, if you really want to, although i'm not sure that's the best idea. Again, i think the best number is probably three. Unlike the Ninja issue, however, i do have testing to back up my ideas. I'm working on two different builds of UG right now; One more artifact-oriented, with baubles and thirsts, and one less so, with Ninjas and STEs. As i said, i haven't gotten to test the Ninja yet, but the artifact version seems to be working out pretty well, although we'll see what happens on Feb. 20th. I'll post my build(s) at a later date when they are more refined.
Echoing Truth is good against EVERYTHING in the format, and allows for Witness tricks and Ninphidian tricks.
As for Ninphidian, Affinity often doesn't know what to do... On turn 2 or 3, they see an STE attacking... Do they block and let me fetch a land while they lose a critter, or do they let it through and hope I don't have a man with Ninjutsu? It has a lot of power with being able to "play" the other player.
Meloku is a house. I hardly kill with RA lately because I'm kiling people with Meloku by the time I have hit 8 mana... There are next to no flyers in the environment, and Meloku not only provides a decent evasion body himself, but produces HORDES of other creatures with evasion... With Witnesses and everything running amuck, attacking with a bunch of 2/2 lands often results in losing a chunk of those lands and not killing the opponent.
[KalmWave] [Last.FM]
Ubuntu Linux