Well the fork ended up being Real Cyan So what improvements do you think we can make, also how did gifts testing go ??
I used to run it but found it to not quite make the cut.
Yeah..that it did. I don't think there's room for it, though, sadly. When I say testing Gifts, what I mean is, I've taken out some random cards and added the 'Infinite Gifts engine'. Basically, like such:
+3 Gifts
+1 Hana Kami
+1 Soulless Revival
+1 Stir the Graves
+1 Cranial Extraction
+1 Ethereal Haze
+1 Bribery
+1 Plains
+1 Swamp
+2 Tendo Ice Bridge
-3 Jushi
-1 Meloku
-1 Plow Under
-2 Echoing Truth
-2 Eternal Witness
-2 Forest
-1 Okina
-1 Minamo
It's actually working really well so far...better than I'd expected. The key lies in knowing when to try to take advantage of the Hana Kami engine..and when to ignore it. VS aggro decks(WW, MGA, etc)..it becomes virtually impossible for them to win once you have the 'lock'. Vs control decks, you just ignore the lock, and the Swamps/Plains(particularly decks like Ponza), and focus on normal mana development for Shackles. Against T&N, your game 1 becomes significantly better. Gifts for Bribery/Extraction/Plow/Witness puts them in an extremely bad spot. Against T&N, you still can lock them, with Hana Kami/Extraction/Soulless Revival instead.
Because I've only been testing this recently, I haven't changed the SB at all.
But, feel free to test his for yourself, and see if you get the same results..I'm definetely pleased, so far. I've only had a chance to play vs. MUC once so far, but, I did win...I just kept continually casting spells until he'd used up alot of counters, then used Revival to get back Hana Kami with like 9 mana open, making Leak/Condescend useless...I used the lock mentioned against T&N to first get rid of Hinder, then Condescend, then Shackles, then Leak..it was pretty easy from there. His build wasn't the best(he ran Echoing Truth, not Boomerang, and he ran a couple Serum Visions in addition to TfK), but, it wasn't different in any way that would have affected the matchup.
Anyway, like I said, I'm pleased with the results so far, feel free to test it for yourself and let everyone know how it goes.
Unless you really need something out on the first turn / 2nd turn that impacts the game profoundly, running moxes should be avoided.
The reason that Ponza / Some builds of MUC run moxes these days is because they want to : turbo out land d. and thieving magpie or possibly turn 2 counter on opponents who go first to do land bird, land ascetic. MBC runs it for tempo advantage in conjunction with draw spells / solemn.
I'm not exactly sure where Isao fits in either. He seems to be strictly inferior to the Ascetic where shackles run rampant. If you want creatures that are uncounterable, aether vials should be considered. So the suggestions I make are :
-2 Moxes
+2 lands (preferrably forests or multi color land such as tendo or city of brass. Even aggro decks should need 22 lands.)
-4 Spiketail Hatchling
+4 Wizard Replica (I honestly dont see hatchling doing much vs the current meta as it consists of control decks which would rather sit back and develop their mana base before committing to action. Also, most of the field is G/X. Meaning 1 colorless mana usually doesn't do much. Replica is a very good addition in this deck, especially with the swords out on the field. It's also a flier for evasion. It also stops the most weenie rush)
-2 Duplicants
-1 Plow Under
+2 Viridian Zealot (this is a metagame call vs. needle, jitte, sword of fire and ice, shackles.)
+1 Echoing truth (This card is GOOOD)
-2 Isao
-2 Hinder
+4 Aether Vial (you don't want to get in counter wars vs other GU / MUC decks) Having hinder seems like a bad idea when you want to aggressively attack while having hints of disruption. Having hordes of 2 / 3 mana costing creatures also help the usage of aether vial.
-2 Hinder
-1 Plow Under
+3 Serum Vision (you don't want bad draws on this deck. This also sets up your first turn play along with aether vial)
-3 Reach
-1 Plow Under
+4 birds (better tempo for aggro deck. Also boosts the usage of your swords should they come out.)
Yeah..that it did. I don't think there's room for it, though, sadly. When I say testing Gifts, what I mean is, I've taken out some random cards and added the 'Infinite Gifts engine'. Basically, like such:
+3 Gifts
+1 Hana Kami
+1 Soulless Revival
+1 Stir the Graves
+1 Cranial Extraction
+1 Ethereal Haze
+1 Bribery
+1 Plains
+1 Swamp
+2 Tendo Ice Bridge
-3 Jushi
-1 Meloku
-1 Plow Under
-2 Echoing Truth
-2 Eternal Witness
-2 Forest
-1 Okina
-1 Minamo
It's actually working really well so far...better than I'd expected. The key lies in knowing when to try to take advantage of the Hana Kami engine..and when to ignore it. VS aggro decks(WW, MGA, etc)..it becomes virtually impossible for them to win once you have the 'lock'. Vs control decks, you just ignore the lock, and the Swamps/Plains(particularly decks like Ponza), and focus on normal mana development for Shackles. Against T&N, your game 1 becomes significantly better. Gifts for Bribery/Extraction/Plow/Witness puts them in an extremely bad spot. Against T&N, you still can lock them, with Hana Kami/Extraction/Soulless Revival instead.
Because I've only been testing this recently, I haven't changed the SB at all.
But, feel free to test his for yourself, and see if you get the same results..I'm definetely pleased, so far. I've only had a chance to play vs. MUC once so far, but, I did win...I just kept continually casting spells until he'd used up alot of counters, then used Revival to get back Hana Kami with like 9 mana open, making Leak/Condescend useless...I used the lock mentioned against T&N to first get rid of Hinder, then Condescend, then Shackles, then Leak..it was pretty easy from there. His build wasn't the best(he ran Echoing Truth, not Boomerang, and he ran a couple Serum Visions in addition to TfK), but, it wasn't different in any way that would have affected the matchup.
Anyway, like I said, I'm pleased with the results so far, feel free to test it for yourself and let everyone know how it goes.
Although the concept seems interesting, I'm sort of against the removal of two eternal witnesses. With the deck revolving around more of a lock style build, I would have expected the # of witnesses to remain the same (or go up to a count of 4 if you play only 3 like myself) instead of decreasing. Any reason you chose to cut the number or were you just hard pressed to find things to cut in general to include the powerful Hana engine?
I was hard pressed, really. There just weren't really any other options. I'd already removed one Meloku, and I felt that it was important to stay with 3 Shackles. Clearly, removing any STE or Reach wasn't an option, especially since I only run 3 Reach as it is. I thought about not running Hana Kami itself, but, the key to the combo is that it dies and you recur it w/ Soulless Revival. It's possible to go the route of Consuming Vortex instead of Soulless, but, that's twice as much mana. I just don't see what to cut..the countermagic base is similarly very important, because of Troll Ascetic in mono-green, Sylvan Scrying in T&N, and MUC.
Correct me if i'm wrong but isn't this the official thread for UG control, not the thread for gifts ungiven 5 colour green. I'm not saying that using the gifts ungiven tech is a bad idea but dispite it having similiarites it plays like a different deck and should be treated as such.
i think that a playset of Witnesses is a must have, so add a 4th, a playset of magpies is also a good idea as is a playset of zealots, birds and kira are also both worth a try. if i was building this it'd be something like:
A)It's not 5 color, it runs all of 4 cards that aren't normally part of UG Control.
B)It doesn't even always play differently, which I explained in my post(that you apparently didn't bother reading, or, you'd know this)
Regardless of those things, if y'all want me to start a new thread for it(or if the Staff deems it necessary), I'll do so.
+3 Gifts
+1 Hana Kami
+1 Soulless Revival
+1 Stir the Graves
+1 Cranial Extraction
+1 Ethereal Haze
+1 Bribery
+1 Plains
+1 Swamp
+2 Tendo Ice Bridge
-3 Jushi
-1 Meloku
-1 Plow Under
-2 Echoing Truth
-2 Eternal Witness
-2 Forest
-1 Okina
-1 Minamo
It's actually working really well so far...better than I'd expected. The key lies in knowing when to try to take advantage of the Hana Kami engine..and when to ignore it. VS aggro decks(WW, MGA, etc)..it becomes virtually impossible for them to win once you have the 'lock'. Vs control decks, you just ignore the lock, and the Swamps/Plains(particularly decks like Ponza), and focus on normal mana development for Shackles. Against T&N, your game 1 becomes significantly better. Gifts for Bribery/Extraction/Plow/Witness puts them in an extremely bad spot. Against T&N, you still can lock them, with Hana Kami/Extraction/Soulless Revival instead.
Because I've only been testing this recently, I haven't changed the SB at all.
But, feel free to test his for yourself, and see if you get the same results..I'm definetely pleased, so far. I've only had a chance to play vs. MUC once so far, but, I did win...I just kept continually casting spells until he'd used up alot of counters, then used Revival to get back Hana Kami with like 9 mana open, making Leak/Condescend useless...I used the lock mentioned against T&N to first get rid of Hinder, then Condescend, then Shackles, then Leak..it was pretty easy from there. His build wasn't the best(he ran Echoing Truth, not Boomerang, and he ran a couple Serum Visions in addition to TfK), but, it wasn't different in any way that would have affected the matchup.
Anyway, like I said, I'm pleased with the results so far, feel free to test it for yourself and let everyone know how it goes.
I like the maindeck Bribery, Gifts, and CE(I'd probably run it if I had the cash), but I'm not sure I really see the point of the Hana Kami engine. I mean, yeah, it's good, but do we really need it?
I may be wrong as I don't have the time to playtest it. (I only get to my local store for FNM and the people at my shool mostly suck)
On a differen't note, what does eveybody think of Jitte for U/G. I'm currently trying to get a hold of one myself after seeing how sick it is, if nothing else it's, 2: kill target Jitte.
Also, what about Iwamori? My friend who is an experienced player suggested it to me and I'm starting to think this might be a good idea. For one thing he's a great beatstick and for another he kills MGA's Iwamori.
Anyway, those are my thoughts for now.
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Quote from Soul_Grind »
I just meant that to assume using an arm lock on someone is an example of a peaceful solution is ludicrous.
Quote from PlatedOrnithopter »
To put it simply, women have to seek empowerment, whereas men have to live up to empowerment.
@ D11: There are a few things I must remark on with your build. I would drop the Condescends for Hinders. I would also drop 1 Gifts, add shackles (lots and lots). I do think the Rewind trick you got there is pretty nifty.
@ D11: There are a few things I must remark on with your build. I would drop the Condescends for Hinders.
This may sound odd... but, I don't like Hinder. I don't know why but I just don't. That said, I probably take out the Condescends for a Hinder and something else.
Quote from Mark Rosewater »
I would also drop 1 Gifts, add shackles (lots and lots).
If I had them I would.
Quote from Mark Rosewater »
I do think the Rewind trick you got there is pretty nifty.
Thanks, I like it. Actually (as I think I stated a few pages back) I think that Rewind is the best hard counter in standard.
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Quote from Soul_Grind »
I just meant that to assume using an arm lock on someone is an example of a peaceful solution is ludicrous.
Quote from PlatedOrnithopter »
To put it simply, women have to seek empowerment, whereas men have to live up to empowerment.
Rewind trick where? I don't see it (Excuse my idiotness, lol)
Assumably it's the "counter, untap, then Gifts Ungiven eot" trick.
Anyways Darksaber, since you are running a mainly Gifts Ungiven toolbox style deck, I'd highly recommend putting in a Revive. It worked well during the time I was testing the toolbox style and I see no reason to not run it now. On a side note, I would also recommend running more mana accel, namely Solemns or Reaches. (Kodama's Reach seems to work better for me at least)
Also, why the Zealots maindeck? I mean if you are having artifact problems in your area, I'd run Shaman over Zealot...(there aren't many playable enchantments in T2 right now, so the ability to hit enchantments with the zealot isn't really needed).
Anyways Darksaber, since you are running a mainly Gifts Ungiven toolbox style deck, I'd highly recommend putting in a Revive. It worked well during the time I was testing the toolbox style and I see no reason to not run it now.
I personally can't see any reason to run it other than to make my toolbox bigger, which is something I'm trying to avoid.
Quote from Wanderer359 »
On a side note, I would also recommend running more mana accel, namely Solemns or Reaches. (Kodama's Reach seems to work better for me at least)
If I had the room I'd probably run Reach.
Quote from Wanderer359 »
Also, why the Zealots maindeck? I mean if you are having artifact problems in your area, I'd run Shaman over Zealot...(there aren't many playable enchantments in T2 right now, so the ability to hit enchantments with the zealot isn't really needed).
I like to be able to hit enchantments. Prison, Glorious Anthem, Choke, ect. There aren't that many good enchantments, but I like to be able to kill them when I see them. Also I hate it when you can't play Shaman without hurting yourself.
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Quote from Soul_Grind »
I just meant that to assume using an arm lock on someone is an example of a peaceful solution is ludicrous.
Quote from PlatedOrnithopter »
To put it simply, women have to seek empowerment, whereas men have to live up to empowerment.
I like to be able to hit enchantments. Prison, Glorious Anthem, Choke, ect. There aren't that many good enchantments, but I like to be able to kill them when I see them. Also I hate it when you can't play Shaman without hurting yourself.
I suppose that's where the metagame issue comes in. I haven't seen Ghostly Prison outside of block/limited play and Anthem isn't that big of a deal usually (I can see how it, along with the rest of WW, can be slightly problematic for you without more shackles. Even then, it's not that big of a deal as you have Explosives, which make for a decent Shackles replacement in this case.) As for choke...yeah, I can see why. However, you'll probably never see Choke first game, which is why I still don't think Zealots are needed MD. If anything, I'd still suggest moving them to the SB or just remove them completely. Still if they're working well for you in your meta, then keep them in.
Anyways, I'd like to point out that one of my metagame components was mentioned in Flores article today: Green Goodstuff, ala 4CG, and is piloted by Sharfman himself. A few of my tournament reports in this thread have already shown this...and I've basically lost every single time. Sharfman's a great player, but the deck itself is extremely problematic for me. Damping Matrix helps, as it shuts down literally half the deck, but it still seems to give me problems. Any suggestions?
I agree w/ what Wanderer said about Zealot..I can't see running Zealot in UG at all, it doesn't mesh with the deck in any way.
I'm not sure what the 4CG deck you're talking about is, unfortunately, so I'm not sure how to advise what to do when you play it. I wouldn't necessarily advise Matrix, though, since you'd be losing your own Shackles and Meloku then.
I agree w/ what Wanderer said about Zealot..I can't see running Zealot in UG at all, it doesn't mesh with the deck in any way.
Yeah, I might take them out. I'm going to try to pay attention to how often I need maindeck artifact/enchantment hate so I can decide what to replace them with. I'm thinking I might end up having one Naturalise or something comparable.
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Quote from Soul_Grind »
I just meant that to assume using an arm lock on someone is an example of a peaceful solution is ludicrous.
Quote from PlatedOrnithopter »
To put it simply, women have to seek empowerment, whereas men have to live up to empowerment.
I'm not sure what the 4CG deck you're talking about is, unfortunately, so I'm not sure how to advise what to do when you play it. I wouldn't necessarily advise Matrix, though, since you'd be losing your own Shackles and Meloku then.
As you can see, it's not something I like seeing. While it doesn't appear to, this deck absolutely steamrolls MUC (other people have tested the deck and proved this) and can be a hard matchup for U/G (thusfar at least). This is one of the few reasons I run Matrix sideboard, as it shuts down a good third of that deck, but I still don't feel it's quite enough, mainly due to the fact that I can never pin the deck down because it's just so random. Any suggestions?
Well, the fact that I have Extraction in the board(don't know if you do or not) helps me alot against all of those random 4/5CG matchups. I virtually always name Etched Oracle w/ the first Extraction...that card is the real backbone of the deck. That's all I can suggest, honestly. If you don't have Extraction..I dunno then. It really seems like Shackles should keep that deck at bay pretty well, though.
Well, the fact that I have Extraction in the board(don't know if you do or not) helps me alot against all of those random 4/5CG matchups. I virtually always name Etched Oracle w/ the first Extraction...that card is the real backbone of the deck. That's all I can suggest, honestly. If you don't have Extraction..I dunno then. It really seems like Shackles should keep that deck at bay pretty well, though.
I'll try and snag a few extractions before FNM tonight (I had some, but they became Force of Wills and other T1 stuff quickly.). I'm beginning to think that I have to chalk it up to bad luck with that matchup, as most of my notes show that I never actually drew any form of gas (excluding a single Meloku that never mattered with a SoFI on the board) during these matchups.
I've been testing a version of this with Phantom Warrior and its actually not that bad. Sword of F&I on it is rediculous, and with a lot of counters on a Jitte, you can swing through their creatures and remove the counters to make the Warrior huge for the kill.
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I like to be able to hit enchantments. Prison, Glorious Anthem, Choke
if your worried about choke might I suggest Spectral Shift.
also I currently not running UG Control but am trying to get a build going.
I have found in most T2 matchups that having to tap 2 forests can be a real pain especialy when I need to kill a enchantment(or artifact) on the spot and then need to tap another forest jsut to do it
I would probaly drop 2 zealots for 2 naturalizes so you would still have 2 zealots left in your deck
Yeah, I definetely prefer Naturalize as well. Vs. other control decks, I do try to get 4 Forests into play at some point(for Witness/Plow in the same turn), but, for the most part, you really just want as many Islands as humanly possible.
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Yeah..that it did. I don't think there's room for it, though, sadly. When I say testing Gifts, what I mean is, I've taken out some random cards and added the 'Infinite Gifts engine'. Basically, like such:
+3 Gifts
+1 Hana Kami
+1 Soulless Revival
+1 Stir the Graves
+1 Cranial Extraction
+1 Ethereal Haze
+1 Bribery
+1 Plains
+1 Swamp
+2 Tendo Ice Bridge
-3 Jushi
-1 Meloku
-1 Plow Under
-2 Echoing Truth
-2 Eternal Witness
-2 Forest
-1 Okina
-1 Minamo
It's actually working really well so far...better than I'd expected. The key lies in knowing when to try to take advantage of the Hana Kami engine..and when to ignore it. VS aggro decks(WW, MGA, etc)..it becomes virtually impossible for them to win once you have the 'lock'. Vs control decks, you just ignore the lock, and the Swamps/Plains(particularly decks like Ponza), and focus on normal mana development for Shackles. Against T&N, your game 1 becomes significantly better. Gifts for Bribery/Extraction/Plow/Witness puts them in an extremely bad spot. Against T&N, you still can lock them, with Hana Kami/Extraction/Soulless Revival instead.
Because I've only been testing this recently, I haven't changed the SB at all.
But, feel free to test his for yourself, and see if you get the same results..I'm definetely pleased, so far. I've only had a chance to play vs. MUC once so far, but, I did win...I just kept continually casting spells until he'd used up alot of counters, then used Revival to get back Hana Kami with like 9 mana open, making Leak/Condescend useless...I used the lock mentioned against T&N to first get rid of Hinder, then Condescend, then Shackles, then Leak..it was pretty easy from there. His build wasn't the best(he ran Echoing Truth, not Boomerang, and he ran a couple Serum Visions in addition to TfK), but, it wasn't different in any way that would have affected the matchup.
Anyway, like I said, I'm pleased with the results so far, feel free to test it for yourself and let everyone know how it goes.
Dare I say that the invitational decks have influenced Cyan somewhat?
The reason that Ponza / Some builds of MUC run moxes these days is because they want to : turbo out land d. and thieving magpie or possibly turn 2 counter on opponents who go first to do land bird, land ascetic. MBC runs it for tempo advantage in conjunction with draw spells / solemn.
I'm not exactly sure where Isao fits in either. He seems to be strictly inferior to the Ascetic where shackles run rampant. If you want creatures that are uncounterable, aether vials should be considered. So the suggestions I make are :
-2 Moxes
+2 lands (preferrably forests or multi color land such as tendo or city of brass. Even aggro decks should need 22 lands.)
-4 Spiketail Hatchling
+4 Wizard Replica (I honestly dont see hatchling doing much vs the current meta as it consists of control decks which would rather sit back and develop their mana base before committing to action. Also, most of the field is G/X. Meaning 1 colorless mana usually doesn't do much. Replica is a very good addition in this deck, especially with the swords out on the field. It's also a flier for evasion. It also stops the most weenie rush)
-2 Duplicants
-1 Plow Under
+2 Viridian Zealot (this is a metagame call vs. needle, jitte, sword of fire and ice, shackles.)
+1 Echoing truth (This card is GOOOD)
-2 Isao
-2 Hinder
+4 Aether Vial (you don't want to get in counter wars vs other GU / MUC decks) Having hinder seems like a bad idea when you want to aggressively attack while having hints of disruption. Having hordes of 2 / 3 mana costing creatures also help the usage of aether vial.
-2 Hinder
-1 Plow Under
+3 Serum Vision (you don't want bad draws on this deck. This also sets up your first turn play along with aether vial)
-3 Reach
-1 Plow Under
+4 birds (better tempo for aggro deck. Also boosts the usage of your swords should they come out.)
Although the concept seems interesting, I'm sort of against the removal of two eternal witnesses. With the deck revolving around more of a lock style build, I would have expected the # of witnesses to remain the same (or go up to a count of 4 if you play only 3 like myself) instead of decreasing. Any reason you chose to cut the number or were you just hard pressed to find things to cut in general to include the powerful Hana engine?
Machius proudly supports R_E's right to Rumour!
4x spiketail hatchling
4x viridian zealot
4x eternal witness
4x troll ascetic
4x thieving magpie
4x mana leak
4x echoing truth
4x hinder
2x sword of fire and ice
2x sword of light and shadow
1x minamo, school at water's edge
9x forest
9x island
3x kira, great glass spinner
4x plow under
4x bribery
4x evacuation
Machius proudly supports R_E's right to Rumour!
B)It doesn't even always play differently, which I explained in my post(that you apparently didn't bother reading, or, you'd know this)
Regardless of those things, if y'all want me to start a new thread for it(or if the Staff deems it necessary), I'll do so.
I like the maindeck Bribery, Gifts, and CE(I'd probably run it if I had the cash), but I'm not sure I really see the point of the Hana Kami engine. I mean, yeah, it's good, but do we really need it?
I may be wrong as I don't have the time to playtest it. (I only get to my local store for FNM and the people at my shool mostly suck)
On a differen't note, what does eveybody think of Jitte for U/G. I'm currently trying to get a hold of one myself after seeing how sick it is, if nothing else it's, 2: kill target Jitte.
Also, what about Iwamori? My friend who is an experienced player suggested it to me and I'm starting to think this might be a good idea. For one thing he's a great beatstick and for another he kills MGA's Iwamori.
Anyway, those are my thoughts for now.
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Huh, was that directed at me?
This is the list I'm currently running
Gifts Eternal
Maindeck (61 cards)
Land (24)
10x Forest
10x Island
1x Swamp
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1x Okina, Temple of Grandfathers
1x Minamo, School at Waters Edge
Creatures (13)
4x [CARD]Eternal Wittnes[/CARD
4x Sakura-Tribe Elder
2x Viridian Zealot
2x Troll Ascetic
1x Meloku the Clouded Mirror
Control (15)
4x Echoing Truth
4x Mana Leak
3x Rewind
2x Condescend
2x Hinder
Toolbox (9)
4x Gifts Ungiven
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Vedalken Shackles
1x Bribery
1x Plow Under
1x Rude Awakening
Sideboard (15)
3x Naturalize
3x Spectral Shift (I still need to get these, no one has them)
2x Hibernation
2x Quash
2x Time Stop
2x Engineered Explosives
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
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This may sound odd... but, I don't like Hinder. I don't know why but I just don't. That said, I probably take out the Condescends for a Hinder and something else.
If I had them I would.
Thanks, I like it. Actually (as I think I stated a few pages back) I think that Rewind is the best hard counter in standard.
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Rewind trick where? I don't see it (Excuse my idiotness, lol)
@D11: I would really drop those Engineered Explosives and add Cranial Extraction instead or add Hinder too, because as you, i really think that Rewind is The best hard counter of Standard but Hinder is the second one and it provides anti-Eternal Witness action.
Assumably it's the "counter, untap, then Gifts Ungiven eot" trick.
Anyways Darksaber, since you are running a mainly Gifts Ungiven toolbox style deck, I'd highly recommend putting in a Revive. It worked well during the time I was testing the toolbox style and I see no reason to not run it now. On a side note, I would also recommend running more mana accel, namely Solemns or Reaches. (Kodama's Reach seems to work better for me at least)
Also, why the Zealots maindeck? I mean if you are having artifact problems in your area, I'd run Shaman over Zealot...(there aren't many playable enchantments in T2 right now, so the ability to hit enchantments with the zealot isn't really needed).
I personally can't see any reason to run it other than to make my toolbox bigger, which is something I'm trying to avoid.
If I had the room I'd probably run Reach.
I like to be able to hit enchantments. Prison, Glorious Anthem, Choke, ect. There aren't that many good enchantments, but I like to be able to kill them when I see them. Also I hate it when you can't play Shaman without hurting yourself.
These boards need Lucida Blackletter as a font option.
I suppose that's where the metagame issue comes in. I haven't seen Ghostly Prison outside of block/limited play and Anthem isn't that big of a deal usually (I can see how it, along with the rest of WW, can be slightly problematic for you without more shackles. Even then, it's not that big of a deal as you have Explosives, which make for a decent Shackles replacement in this case.) As for choke...yeah, I can see why. However, you'll probably never see Choke first game, which is why I still don't think Zealots are needed MD. If anything, I'd still suggest moving them to the SB or just remove them completely. Still if they're working well for you in your meta, then keep them in.
Anyways, I'd like to point out that one of my metagame components was mentioned in Flores article today: Green Goodstuff, ala 4CG, and is piloted by Sharfman himself. A few of my tournament reports in this thread have already shown this...and I've basically lost every single time. Sharfman's a great player, but the deck itself is extremely problematic for me. Damping Matrix helps, as it shuts down literally half the deck, but it still seems to give me problems. Any suggestions?
I'm not sure what the 4CG deck you're talking about is, unfortunately, so I'm not sure how to advise what to do when you play it. I wouldn't necessarily advise Matrix, though, since you'd be losing your own Shackles and Meloku then.
Yeah, I might take them out. I'm going to try to pay attention to how often I need maindeck artifact/enchantment hate so I can decide what to replace them with. I'm thinking I might end up having one Naturalise or something comparable.
These boards need Lucida Blackletter as a font option.
The deck is at the bottom of the page, under the name of David Sharman.
As you can see, it's not something I like seeing. While it doesn't appear to, this deck absolutely steamrolls MUC (other people have tested the deck and proved this) and can be a hard matchup for U/G (thusfar at least). This is one of the few reasons I run Matrix sideboard, as it shuts down a good third of that deck, but I still don't feel it's quite enough, mainly due to the fact that I can never pin the deck down because it's just so random. Any suggestions?
I'll try and snag a few extractions before FNM tonight (I had some, but they became Force of Wills and other T1 stuff quickly.). I'm beginning to think that I have to chalk it up to bad luck with that matchup, as most of my notes show that I never actually drew any form of gas (excluding a single Meloku that never mattered with a SoFI on the board) during these matchups.
if your worried about choke might I suggest Spectral Shift.
also I currently not running UG Control but am trying to get a build going.
I have found in most T2 matchups that having to tap 2 forests can be a real pain especialy when I need to kill a enchantment(or artifact) on the spot and then need to tap another forest jsut to do it
I would probaly drop 2 zealots for 2 naturalizes so you would still have 2 zealots left in your deck
H/W List ABOVE