Like ButtesBlue said how can we change a deck when we dont even know how affinity is going to be effected by the bans? Obv diff strategies are involved when dealing with disciple of the vault or dealing with plating (just an example).
I also had an epiphany regarding Blood Moon. There isn't a matchup that U/G cant win without cranial extraction. Blood Moon is just better against Tooth because it slows down there acceleration and it nukes boseiju. I am def going to playing this sb option from now, especially after march 1.
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Quote from Miscalcul8edRisk »
In IBTG we trust
Quote from Veserius »
Hats off to [BB18 & IBTG], you've found something that may be THE deck to beat post rotation.
Ok ok....here is my deck list, it's kind of my own hybrid of UG control.
U/G Conrtol Pre BoK
// Creatures
3 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
4 Eternal Witness
2 Keiga, the Tidal Star
3 Karstoderm
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
// Spells
2 Rude Awakening
4 Serum Visions
3 Hinder
3 Kodama's Reach
3 Condescend
4 Mana Leak
// Land
11 Island
1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
11 Forest
SB: 3 Oxidize
SB: 3 March of the Machines
SB: 2 Echoing Truth
SB: 1 Karstoderm
SB: 1 Molder Slug
SB: 3 Viridian Shaman
SB: 2 Bribery
I would probably take out the solemns for Vedalkin shackles, or add 2 truths and possibly another condescend main.
(Btw i know the difference between a soft counter and a hard counter, but I still think condescend is a better counterspell)
The deck really works well against ravager after side boarding, as you practically bring in the whole board against it (10 artifact hate cards).
Rats is this decks worst matchup by far, but adding shackles would help in that matchup.
Once ravager gets wrecked by the ban list in march, all the artifact hate comes out to add more regular blue control.
What do you guys think?
Jens is yuck, as is Keiga.
How you claim to beat Ravager is simply unexcusable... You have no MD hate, and post-SBing, even though I hate MORE hate than you do total, nothing works "well" against Ravager as the deck is... insane.
Why is Rats something you test against? (Hint- it's terrible)
But I started noticing that having to have an artifact out for V-Shammy to work was too much of a pain for 3 mana, plus they could regenerate it. I took out the 3 V-Shamans and put in 2 Oxidizes and 1 Serum Visions. It may just be me but I think it is working a tad better. 1 less affinity-hater but I'll be able to put them out earlier plus draw/scry.
Ok... Shaman isn't something you "hold back" unless you actually expect them to play a devastating artifact. Even at a 2/2 for 3, it's decent. Not to mention, you replaced a card that is never totally dead with Oxidize, which according to your reasons for removing the Shaman in the first place, is strictly inferior.
I dont know how many times it needs to be said but the goal of the deck is to smash with rude. Given that objective Kodama's Reach is the most optimal choice. Reach gives you the same two cards, solemn will eventually get, I would almost prefer knowing it is a land.
Again I am going to have to agree with Buttes, shaman is a good beater at his price, 3 for a 2/2 is like the opitimy of solid in magic. Only when you know something is going to becoming down, like a v-shackles or cranial plating do you really want to hold this guy in your hand.
Droping the shaman and adding oxidize would be a serious mistake. Oxidize is arguably the best hate spell in the environment. However, there are matchups where it wont have targets and becomes a dead draw. With Shaman he is always at least a grey ogre. Oxidize was also more played before becuase welding jar was more common in affinity but has since fallen off the list. Right now I think the correct numbers are 3 shaman and 2 oxidize.
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Quote from Miscalcul8edRisk »
In IBTG we trust
Quote from Veserius »
Hats off to [BB18 & IBTG], you've found something that may be THE deck to beat post rotation.
The 3-2 shaman-oxi ratio sounds alright although I have always used 4 oxi main. I like to see it as much as possible in the event that I am up against Affinitah. I know this is totally dead against almost everything else, but I would rather have dead cards in the 1st game against everything else than have a tougher 1st game against affinitah.
I almost always use 4 Shaman, as they are less-dead than Oxidize is if you run into a non-affinity matchup. Although it isn't AS powerful against affinity, it still can be useful at times. I often use x4 Shaman and x3 Oxidize though, as Affinity is a bad-boy around here.
And I know what you mean about wanting a better match in game 1 against affinity... when 60% of the field is playing affinity, it's a small price to pay.
Well, at my local place where I play, rats has won FNM the past couple of weeks. As for my matchup against affinity post sideboard, I tend to win at least 80% of my matchups, but since Ravager is going to get hosed all around after march 1st my sideboard is going to change.
Quote from IbeatTomGuevin »
Again I am going to have to agree with Buttes, shaman is a good beater at his price, 3 for a 2/2 is like the opitimy of solid in magic. Only when you know something is going to becoming down, like a v-shackles or cranial plating do you really want to hold this guy in your hand.
What's the point of a control deck? To control or to beat? Last time I checked, the deck was call UG control not UG Beats. Shaman is not in the deck to beat, it's in there to control affinity and to chump block huge ravagers or atogs. The point of UG Control, IMHO, is to control the game until you get you win conditions on board, in Meloku, Rude, Keiga, or what have you.
Yes, however if you are in the position to start beating up the opponent, what's to stop you? If you have them already in a lock, that 2/2 beating them every turn can make your life a LOT easier in the long run, especially if you need to get them into Rude Awakening range.
ah rude awakening is such a pwerful little bugger, I agree the only reason why shaman is in my MD is because ravager is a big threat down here and even not going against ravager it has proved to be a little beater in itself
yeah i think that is true, once ravager gets the kick or something artifacty in it i will prolly think about revising my MD to better fit my meta down here
Frankly, it is useless and boring to sift through posts about speculated ideas.
We don't know the extent of the bannings, nor which cards are being banned, so posting numerous threads about "post-banning" and "post-Ravager" formats are irrelevant.
I know everyone is excited, but honestly, for all any of us knows, they could only ban DotV, which would still keep Affinity in the Top 4 decks.
All I'm asking is that we all calm down and not try and jump to conclusions on what the DCI will do.
So, I propose 0 speculation on the format until we've seen the announcement.
On another note, I am trying a version with black incorporated on the MD as I am starting to dislike Meloku and I think there are some available options in black we haven't explored.
Yay for Kokusho as a kill condition... lol. Are you delving into black only as a small splash (like one swamp), because that doesn't offer a lot in the way of win conditions, although it does allow for Cranial Extraction which isn't bad.
The mirror is usually long and boring and hinges on who can resolve Meloku or Rude 1st. These matches often result in draws as time will expire if you are in the 3rd game.
I have noticed a lot of you guys run Ninja of deep hours. In my opinion he isnt really that good, most of the time hes only getting through once after bouncing a Meloku token and will normally get blocked if you attack the next time around... Just how it works with my playtesting, Sometimes returning Witness's back to hand are fun though.
I also have been playing shackles main in mine. Were i play shackles is a house, it improves almost all my matchups by 5-10% on its own :D. This is just my meta my thoughts and feeling on the things.
Well I try to use ninja to bounce witness most of the time and is anyone going to the JSS tourney on saturday in Massachusetts and have 3 or more xtra Shackles PM for what ur looking for.
I have noticed a lot of you guys run Ninja of deep hours. In my opinion he isnt really that good, most of the time hes only getting through once after bouncing a Meloku token and will normally get blocked if you attack the next time around... Just how it works with my playtesting, Sometimes returning Witness's back to hand are fun though.
I also have been playing shackles main in mine. Were i play shackles is a house, it improves almost all my matchups by 5-10% on its own :D. This is just my meta my thoughts and feeling on the things.
Maybe once is enough. For 2 mana, you get to deal 2 damage and draw one. And hopefully you can bounce something with a good purpose back to your hand (ie witness). And if it dies the next time around, hopefully it traded a creature with your opp.
It just dosen't seem that great, your opponent most of the time will be trading creatures with you espically when UG dosent have many creatures, and the odds of getting both deep hours and Meloku consitantly isnt very likely. if i would run them i would sonner run Insperation or Tirst for knowledge. MY build also has no Viridian shamans so the odds of me returning creatures is very unlikely, the thing i can see usefull is shakling the opponents creature and ninjitsu it to their hand....
I'm no u/g expert, but if you run shackles or echoing truth, you can probably keep control over your opponent's creatures, and as a result, you'd be able to swing in more. if ravager gets the boot, we can possibly run more counters to keep the field controlled better.
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I also had an epiphany regarding Blood Moon. There isn't a matchup that U/G cant win without cranial extraction. Blood Moon is just better against Tooth because it slows down there acceleration and it nukes boseiju. I am def going to playing this sb option from now, especially after march 1.
Anon - control RGW
Again, my current list.
Tom - I'm glad you've seen the light.
Jens is yuck, as is Keiga.
How you claim to beat Ravager is simply unexcusable... You have no MD hate, and post-SBing, even though I hate MORE hate than you do total, nothing works "well" against Ravager as the deck is... insane.
Why is Rats something you test against? (Hint- it's terrible)
Ok... Shaman isn't something you "hold back" unless you actually expect them to play a devastating artifact. Even at a 2/2 for 3, it's decent. Not to mention, you replaced a card that is never totally dead with Oxidize, which according to your reasons for removing the Shaman in the first place, is strictly inferior.
[KalmWave] [Last.FM]
Ubuntu Linux
Again I am going to have to agree with Buttes, shaman is a good beater at his price, 3 for a 2/2 is like the opitimy of solid in magic. Only when you know something is going to becoming down, like a v-shackles or cranial plating do you really want to hold this guy in your hand.
Droping the shaman and adding oxidize would be a serious mistake. Oxidize is arguably the best hate spell in the environment. However, there are matchups where it wont have targets and becomes a dead draw. With Shaman he is always at least a grey ogre. Oxidize was also more played before becuase welding jar was more common in affinity but has since fallen off the list. Right now I think the correct numbers are 3 shaman and 2 oxidize.
Anon - control RGW
And I know what you mean about wanting a better match in game 1 against affinity... when 60% of the field is playing affinity, it's a small price to pay.
What's the point of a control deck? To control or to beat? Last time I checked, the deck was call UG control not UG Beats. Shaman is not in the deck to beat, it's in there to control affinity and to chump block huge ravagers or atogs. The point of UG Control, IMHO, is to control the game until you get you win conditions on board, in Meloku, Rude, Keiga, or what have you.
Please don't double post.
Tyraziel
Format:
Type 2 Constructed
Current Decks:
:symu::symg: Control
Rats
Ravager Affinity
010100000110111101110100011011110111101001101110011010010110000101101011
Thanks to KrackkShott at Kracked Graphics for my special banner!
Come Join the War!!!
The exception to all this of course is Tooth and Nail.
Shamans are good... but they're going to go if ravager hits the dust, there are better creatures, lol.
Thanks to KrackkShott at Kracked Graphics for my special banner!
Come Join the War!!!
To quote myself:
So, I propose 0 speculation on the format until we've seen the announcement.
On another note, I am trying a version with black incorporated on the MD as I am starting to dislike Meloku and I think there are some available options in black we haven't explored.
[KalmWave] [Last.FM]
Ubuntu Linux
1. I Find a sutable replacement for Shackles.
2. I get some shackles.
3. I just use Visions.
Thirsty for Chicken?
:vader: Yankees Rock:vader:
:trooper: :trooper: :trooper: :trooper: :trooper: :trooper:
The Story of Raffinity
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=100284#post100284
Get em ' While they're Hot!!
T2:
G/W Control
1.X:
Goblin Revenge
Thirsty for Chicken?
:vader: Yankees Rock:vader:
:trooper: :trooper: :trooper: :trooper: :trooper: :trooper:
The Story of Raffinity
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=100284#post100284
Get em ' While they're Hot!!
T2:
G/W Control
1.X:
Goblin Revenge
:symw::symu: Merfolk
Definitely not an aggro player.
He's just good in general...
[KalmWave] [Last.FM]
Ubuntu Linux
-=T2=-
:symu::symg: Control
I also have been playing shackles main in mine. Were i play shackles is a house, it improves almost all my matchups by 5-10% on its own :D. This is just my meta my thoughts and feeling on the things.
Thirsty for Chicken?
:vader: Yankees Rock:vader:
:trooper: :trooper: :trooper: :trooper: :trooper: :trooper:
The Story of Raffinity
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=100284#post100284
Get em ' While they're Hot!!
T2:
G/W Control
1.X:
Goblin Revenge
Maybe once is enough. For 2 mana, you get to deal 2 damage and draw one. And hopefully you can bounce something with a good purpose back to your hand (ie witness). And if it dies the next time around, hopefully it traded a creature with your opp.