Ok this deck seems to work ok at my type 2 tourney today it did good but something seemed off about it and i beleive it could be better this is post ninth and if i can get the kinks out im taking it to nationals as ive already qualified. try not to steer to far from the decks idea as i will list it after the deck.
Ok this deck dosnty seem right but it works. I have been constructing this thing for a short time and basicaly it uses cheap red burn and exel to hold ol the early part of the game it drops a couple large creatures eg shard or rathi or even Sandstone to win the slates help me get cards as this deck runs out of hand very quickly and the equipment is mostly just filler to help my creatures now my mana exel dies on a shard pheonix or pyroclasm this i dont like but it seems to work as i dont need the mana excel later in the game anyway's. the deck got me 4rth at the latest tourney we held for post 9th practice there were 20 or so ppl there. here are the matches
2-0 against red aggro easy win he couldnt keep any creatures
0-2 against MGA couldnt target the 3/2 regenerators so they beat me down with blnchwood armour on. Didnt draw shard or pyroclasm soon enough.
0-2 Black deck not sure which one. yukopra the prisoner was to much for me i managed to kill it taking out yukopra and several others but he cast yukora again and sacked his land for a 5/5 flyer with the black land. i lost. Mana problems second match i lost
2-0 T&N plain out just raced it and won fairly simple. this isnt the reg tooth deck it was a weathered tooth deck \very nive took 5th i think.
2-0 WW this was simple as i just got shard out and naile it every turn and used sandstone to take off his life slowly didnt draw well this match mostly land but i got the 2 cards needed to win.
i won in the tie breakers as my opponents point ratings were good i got a higher place i tied with 2 others technicaly.
this deck may lack a little consistancy but im trying to get the 2 of's up to 3 of's and removing not so good cards buit i dont know what exactly to do as the deck does ok but it just seems not to work perfectly maybe i should use mono red and get rid of the mana producers in green and go artifact but thenj there not as good and i lose kird ape. idealy the creatures used for attacking should have minimum 3 def i want to replace sandstone as he is to mana intyensive to do any good damage most times but i dont know what to use. and on a final note no arc sloggers there good but i cant get any around here and i cant buy online due to lack of credit card but good idea neway. i will post more re****s as sdoon as i have them if anyone wants to follow the deck and see how it does. so what do you think does it stand a chance and what constructive crit's do you have about the deck?
Bring Back, Bring Back, Bring Back my Counterspell to me, TO ME!
one man's rant cannot change the way things work but maybe just maybe i can change the minds of just a few ppl who in turn will hopefully change the minds of a few more and they cycle will continue.
as you can see by my canadian flag i am canadian and national here isnt till the 25th of aug and ninth is legal for that i fully understand your confusion though
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Bring Back, Bring Back, Bring Back my Counterspell to me, TO ME!
one man's rant cannot change the way things work but maybe just maybe i can change the minds of just a few ppl who in turn will hopefully change the minds of a few more and they cycle will continue.
im horrified right now... I think if you are going to go r/g you might want to try the wildfire route, to me it looks like you are running a whole horde of sub optimal cards.
sandstone warrior.... i rest my case.
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Quote from Miscalcul8edRisk »
In IBTG we trust
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Hats off to [BB18 & IBTG], you've found something that may be THE deck to beat post rotation.
Wildfire is good, but it's generally slower than is useful against WW. Pyroclasm is as good if not better for cheapness. The land-loss isn't needed.
I've got a nice R/G Aggro list that's only lost once in testing so far, to Rats when an ill-timed Iwamori dropped an Ink-Eyes on the otherside of the table that I couldn't deal with.
I haven't fully designed a SB for it yet, but Pyroclasm, Nautralize and/or Viridian Shaman and/or Manriki-Gusari would be in it. Sowing Salt against Tooth, etc. I don't know what the Canadian metagame is like, so you can tweak it as required. Clasm + Apes is gooooood.
In my list, you can run 2 more Slogger or maybe Jiwari or something over the Rathi Dragons. I like them and they work well for me (except against bounce) but others don't.
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Mr Indigo - Defying my own philosophies since 1998.
you cant compare pyroclasm to wildfire they are 2 totally different effects. A build using wildfire would be completely different than just straight up RG beats.
you only lost once during your testing? then you havent been testing enough.
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Hats off to [BB18 & IBTG], you've found something that may be THE deck to beat post rotation.
whats so hard about this one. Ink-eyes is a 5/4 REGENERATER and Iwamori is a 5/5. swing with ink-eyes, you block with Mori, dmg resolves Ink-eyes regenerates, mori goes to the yard...
I wouldnt run 4x witness, one opening hand with this deck and you should have to mull.
Although I think I would agree with you that Llanowar is the correct first turn play, I wouldnt go as far to say that kird ape is useless. there will be times when you dont get an elf opening hand and if thats the case whats better than a guy whos going to be a 2/3 by the time hes swinging turn 2?
24 land seems like a ton, especially with elves and sakura, I would probably only be running 22, and right there you have room for shaman, which I think def belongs in the deck.
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Hats off to [BB18 & IBTG], you've found something that may be THE deck to beat post rotation.
No, we're not. Can you not see how Wildfire isn't in the maindeck? That's like calling TNN and MGA the same deck because they both run forests.
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Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
Note: This is just my opinion, and I haven't kept up with standard for a bit, so this might not be techy; still, all my changes should probably be just categorically for the better.
- 4 volcanic hammer, + 4 Magma Jets
-4 Kird Ape, +4 Llanowar Elves
-3 Sandstone Warriors, +3 there's so many good cards you could run here - Arc Slogger or Troll Ascetics come to mind.
-2 Loxodon Warhammer, -2 Slate of Ancestry, +4 either Jitte or Sophie.
That would probably help somewhat for the goodness of the deck.
rhinocero's suggestions seem good... except he already has llanowar elfs, and kird apes are very good.
maybe you should try something like form of the dragon
but you should most definetly replace the sandstone worriors
4 splinter sb seams too much... i dunno. its cost is high. i guess you can do 2 splinter, 2 naturalize???
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The Kird Apes are -not good.- It's GR for a Vanilla 2/3. for all intents and purposes.
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Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
why do I get the feeling that Kird ape is going to be as highly discussed as SDT was... there are so many different views on the card.
It's GR for a Vanilla 2/3.
well kind of... turn 2 though you can lay an elf and an ape, the ape still gets the bonus but you only payed 1 red. not to mention after the first kird ape this whole theory gets thrown out the window. then put another spin on it; turn 1 you play your 1/1 kird ape for 1 red mana, turn 2 you play a forest. that forest isnt tapped, you get a 2/3 and still have all the resources you started with at the begining of the turn... seems good to me
But even at a hypothetical casting cost of GR, wouldnt kird ape still be good as a vanilla 2/3. Take a look at any grizzly bear-esque type card. 2 casting cost for a 2 power guy, in this case we get a 2 power guy. The enter the fact that there has never been a bear printed whos toughness has been higher than its power.... right there we are getting more bang for our buck.
3 toughness is also nothing to sneeze at these days. it takes more than 1 swing with a jitte to kill 'em off, he wont die to magma jet, plows over blocking and pumping nexi, and sword of fire and ice will never touch him.
loxodon warhammer is absolute junk, the only equipment that I would consider running in rg beats would sofai or jitte.
slate of ancestry.... lets hear for playing with bad cards.
tom (whats your real name btw??) i agree with you about kird ape!!
i would -2 warhammer
-2 slate sb: -2 jiwari
-3 utopia +2 sword fire/ice
+3jitte
+1 elf
+3 kodama's reach
how about that?
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When's the last you saw that in a green aggro deck again?
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Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
my real name is Brian, IBTG is just a name I use on all the forums I reply to because I did in fact beat on of the only guys nominated for the hall of fame to not even get one lousy vote. Im pretty sure he is even more disliked than mike long, I know the both of 'em and guevin gets under my skin alot more.
I really feel like the list rhino- posted is sub optimal, instead of doing to whole add this card, subtract this card I would probably just start over. I suppose Ill have to throw a list together.
last time I checked though, you couldnt play elvish champion turn 1.... I said that you could hypothetically think of it having that casting cost, in reality it doesnt. never, ever will you have to tap both a green and a red source to play a kird ape.... I dont know about you but I would think a 2/3 for a R would constitute as undercosted...
any creature not sporting trample is easily chumped blocked by sakura, thats what makes him better than rampant growth...
I really dont think you make a relevant point in your entire rant. Im playing other cards than kird ape you know, I just happen to think its a good card especially in this deck. Ive made my points, they are all relevant and thus far you have yet to discredit any of them of any grounds of merit or logic other than you will draw arashi when i draw kird ape... come back when you have something.
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Hats off to [BB18 & IBTG], you've found something that may be THE deck to beat post rotation.
One of the beautiful things about Kird Apes in a deck like this(apart from the fact they can beat for 2 on the 2nd turn) is the fact that it survives pyroclasm or shard pheonix as well. I'm not saying that there aren't a heap of better creatures in RG but most of them are in the 4 or 5cc bracket(iwamori, arc slogger, kumano, arashi, rathi dragon etc.) and despite what some people believe a lower curve is often helpful.
RG Beats shouldn't really need Kird Ape. You should want to just acclerate in to Jitte/Equip or fatties. Use your spot removal sparingly. Shaman could be very very good, but you have to be careful or you may have dead cards on your hand.
One of the beautiful things about Kird Apes in a deck like this(apart from the fact they can beat for 2 on the 2nd turn) is the fact that it survives pyroclasm or shard pheonix as well. I'm not saying that there aren't a heap of better creatures in RG but most of them are in the 4 or 5cc bracket(iwamori, arc slogger, kumano, arashi, rathi dragon etc.) and despite what some people believe a lower curve is often helpful.
Why are you playing Shard Pheonix? It's a mediocre effect for too much mana. For 5 mana, you want creatures with a decnet PT. (No.) and an ability that will be a gamebraker (Debateable, but I'd rather have a slogger over a Pheonix, even with only 2 red mana.)
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Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
Honestly...Looks like a pile. Kird Ape just doesn't do enough in RG beats. He may have the nostalgia factor, but much like Hypnotic Specter he can't measure up.
Ok this deck dosnty seem right but it works. I have been constructing this thing for a short time and basicaly it uses cheap red burn and exel to hold ol the early part of the game it drops a couple large creatures eg shard or rathi or even Sandstone to win the slates help me get cards as this deck runs out of hand very quickly and the equipment is mostly just filler to help my creatures now my mana exel dies on a shard pheonix or pyroclasm this i dont like but it seems to work as i dont need the mana excel later in the game anyway's. the deck got me 4rth at the latest tourney we held for post 9th practice there were 20 or so ppl there. here are the matches
2-0 against red aggro easy win he couldnt keep any creatures
0-2 against MGA couldnt target the 3/2 regenerators so they beat me down with blnchwood armour on. Didnt draw shard or pyroclasm soon enough.
0-2 Black deck not sure which one. yukopra the prisoner was to much for me i managed to kill it taking out yukopra and several others but he cast yukora again and sacked his land for a 5/5 flyer with the black land. i lost. Mana problems second match i lost
2-0 T&N plain out just raced it and won fairly simple. this isnt the reg tooth deck it was a weathered tooth deck \very nive took 5th i think.
2-0 WW this was simple as i just got shard out and naile it every turn and used sandstone to take off his life slowly didnt draw well this match mostly land but i got the 2 cards needed to win.
i won in the tie breakers as my opponents point ratings were good i got a higher place i tied with 2 others technicaly.
this deck may lack a little consistancy but im trying to get the 2 of's up to 3 of's and removing not so good cards buit i dont know what exactly to do as the deck does ok but it just seems not to work perfectly maybe i should use mono red and get rid of the mana producers in green and go artifact but thenj there not as good and i lose kird ape. idealy the creatures used for attacking should have minimum 3 def i want to replace sandstone as he is to mana intyensive to do any good damage most times but i dont know what to use. and on a final note no arc sloggers there good but i cant get any around here and i cant buy online due to lack of credit card but good idea neway. i will post more re****s as sdoon as i have them if anyone wants to follow the deck and see how it does. so what do you think does it stand a chance and what constructive crit's do you have about the deck?
one man's rant cannot change the way things work but maybe just maybe i can change the minds of just a few ppl who in turn will hopefully change the minds of a few more and they cycle will continue.
Visit my website! http://MTGPro.bravehost.com
a realy cool video everyone should watch
one man's rant cannot change the way things work but maybe just maybe i can change the minds of just a few ppl who in turn will hopefully change the minds of a few more and they cycle will continue.
Visit my website! http://MTGPro.bravehost.com
a realy cool video everyone should watch
sandstone warrior.... i rest my case.
Anon - control RGW
Wildfire against WW is basically a wrath of god O.O
I've got a nice R/G Aggro list that's only lost once in testing so far, to Rats when an ill-timed Iwamori dropped an Ink-Eyes on the otherside of the table that I couldn't deal with.
Here is The Liste:
10 Forest
9 Mountain
4 Karplusan Forest
//Creatures - 26
4 Kird Ape
4 Troll Ascetic
4 Llanowar Elves
3 Eternal Witness
2 Arc-Slogger
2 Rathi Dragon
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
3 Iwamori of the Open Fist
4 Shock
4 Magma Jet
3 Umezawas Jitte
I haven't fully designed a SB for it yet, but Pyroclasm, Nautralize and/or Viridian Shaman and/or Manriki-Gusari would be in it. Sowing Salt against Tooth, etc. I don't know what the Canadian metagame is like, so you can tweak it as required. Clasm + Apes is gooooood.
In my list, you can run 2 more Slogger or maybe Jiwari or something over the Rathi Dragons. I like them and they work well for me (except against bounce) but others don't.
you only lost once during your testing? then you havent been testing enough.
Anon - control RGW
Here is the deck that I made. It originally had Viridian Shamans, but Fayul, my loyal playtesting partner, found that Arashi, the Sky Asunder is much better maindeck. Also, Kird Ape is a waste...the ideal turn 1 drop is Llanowar Elves.
4 Karplusan Forest
10 Mountain
10 Forest
Creatures
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Troll Ascetic
2 Arashi, the Sky Asunder
4 Eternal Witness
3 Iwamori of the Open Fist
3 Arc-Slogger
4 Magma Jet
4 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Naturalize
4 Creeping Mold
3 Wildfire
4 Sowing Salt
whats so hard about this one. Ink-eyes is a 5/4 REGENERATER and Iwamori is a 5/5. swing with ink-eyes, you block with Mori, dmg resolves Ink-eyes regenerates, mori goes to the yard...
I wouldnt run 4x witness, one opening hand with this deck and you should have to mull.
Although I think I would agree with you that Llanowar is the correct first turn play, I wouldnt go as far to say that kird ape is useless. there will be times when you dont get an elf opening hand and if thats the case whats better than a guy whos going to be a 2/3 by the time hes swinging turn 2?
24 land seems like a ton, especially with elves and sakura, I would probably only be running 22, and right there you have room for shaman, which I think def belongs in the deck.
Anon - control RGW
- 4 volcanic hammer, + 4 Magma Jets
-4 Kird Ape, +4 Llanowar Elves
-3 Sandstone Warriors, +3 there's so many good cards you could run here - Arc Slogger or Troll Ascetics come to mind.
-2 Loxodon Warhammer, -2 Slate of Ancestry, +4 either Jitte or Sophie.
That would probably help somewhat for the goodness of the deck.
maybe you should try something like form of the dragon
but you should most definetly replace the sandstone worriors
4 splinter sb seams too much... i dunno. its cost is high. i guess you can do 2 splinter, 2 naturalize???
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well kind of... turn 2 though you can lay an elf and an ape, the ape still gets the bonus but you only payed 1 red. not to mention after the first kird ape this whole theory gets thrown out the window. then put another spin on it; turn 1 you play your 1/1 kird ape for 1 red mana, turn 2 you play a forest. that forest isnt tapped, you get a 2/3 and still have all the resources you started with at the begining of the turn... seems good to me
But even at a hypothetical casting cost of GR, wouldnt kird ape still be good as a vanilla 2/3. Take a look at any grizzly bear-esque type card. 2 casting cost for a 2 power guy, in this case we get a 2 power guy. The enter the fact that there has never been a bear printed whos toughness has been higher than its power.... right there we are getting more bang for our buck.
3 toughness is also nothing to sneeze at these days. it takes more than 1 swing with a jitte to kill 'em off, he wont die to magma jet, plows over blocking and pumping nexi, and sword of fire and ice will never touch him.
loxodon warhammer is absolute junk, the only equipment that I would consider running in rg beats would sofai or jitte.
slate of ancestry.... lets hear for playing with bad cards.
Anon - control RGW
i would -2 warhammer
-2 slate sb: -2 jiwari
-3 utopia +2 sword fire/ice
+3jitte
+1 elf
+3 kodama's reach
how about that?
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Elvish Warrior
When's the last you saw that in a green aggro deck again?
Even in an aggro deck, unless you can stupidly outspeed your opponent, utility is required. Vanilla creatures, when they are not ridiculously undercosted, are not playable, not when I can play a regenerator, a trampler, Mr. 4 Shocks in my Pocket, Uktabi Orangutan 2003, Hurricane With a Body, Acceleration Snake, or Acceleration Elf
Careful... That's getting close to the line.
I really feel like the list rhino- posted is sub optimal, instead of doing to whole add this card, subtract this card I would probably just start over. I suppose Ill have to throw a list together.
last time I checked though, you couldnt play elvish champion turn 1.... I said that you could hypothetically think of it having that casting cost, in reality it doesnt. never, ever will you have to tap both a green and a red source to play a kird ape.... I dont know about you but I would think a 2/3 for a R would constitute as undercosted...
Anon - control RGW
ummm... turn 2, 2/3 isnt good early game? I would love to here arguments supporting that.
then you make a case against it citing one matchup, where you hypothesize the card is bad.
any creature not sporting trample is easily chumped blocked by sakura, thats what makes him better than rampant growth...
I really dont think you make a relevant point in your entire rant. Im playing other cards than kird ape you know, I just happen to think its a good card especially in this deck. Ive made my points, they are all relevant and thus far you have yet to discredit any of them of any grounds of merit or logic other than you will draw arashi when i draw kird ape... come back when you have something.
Anon - control RGW
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Why are you playing Shard Pheonix? It's a mediocre effect for too much mana. For 5 mana, you want creatures with a decnet PT. (No.) and an ability that will be a gamebraker (Debateable, but I'd rather have a slogger over a Pheonix, even with only 2 red mana.)
[CARDS] 10 forest
8 mountains
4 karplusan forest
creatures
[CARDS] 4 tribe elders
4 llanowar elves
4 kird ape great early game
3 troll ascetic
3 arc slogger
2 iwamori
2 rathi dragon
[CARDS] 4 kodamas reach
4 magma jet
4 umezawas jitte
2 sword of fire and ice
2 sword of light and shadow
Its proving out to be a good deck just needs work so any comments on it would be useful.
Predigested Prayers Pluck Priests,
Pithing Polytheistict Purification.
Honestly...Looks like a pile. Kird Ape just doesn't do enough in RG beats. He may have the nostalgia factor, but much like Hypnotic Specter he can't measure up.
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