That's why I wanna test them. Not sure what else is in the rest of the set or how the meta will pan out. Which is prolly why spoiler talk isn't allowed lol.
Dilleux_Lepaire Told me to post my list up here, So im looking for some constructive crit, and I know alot of the cards are GtC so its kinda speculation
This is my current List for a Standard esper control after gatecrash is released. Sure I know that only half of the cards are spoiled but Oh well I like to create before.
Heres why I made the choices
Land:
Drowned Catacomb: I need good mana fixing, and with running Seer(bob2.0) I don't want to take a lot of damage from shocks.
Ghost Quarter: This is good for hitting those pesky odd lands and can even be used on my own lands (which is horrible) to get a land I need.
Glacial Fortress: See Drowned Catacomb above.
Godless Shrine: The Shocks are really important, they are dual lands that can enter untapped which is a great thing, the only downside is the 2 damage, but oh well.
Hallowed Fountain: Shockland, see Godless shrine
Island: Most overpowered card in the game.
Isolated Chapel: See Drowned Catacombs.
Nephalia Drownyard: This can be a very grind-y wincon, if all else falls through just mill them, or if you have extra mana at the end of the op's turn, why not just mill 3 from them?
Plains: Slightly worse than the Island
Swamp: See plains.
Watery Grave: See shocklands above lolz.
Instants:
AEtherize: A great card against anything that wants to attack you and can send them back a few turns/allow me to sing with the big man obzedat.
Azorius Charm: Versatility, Lifegain is good especially with shocklands, Drawing a card is a 1for1 so that's decent, and the last ability is to ruin those annoying decks that attack. Overall great card.
Dimir Charm: I truly love this card, Like the other charms its filled with versatility, The sorcery countering is eh, the killing is very limited, and honestly its really only going to be used to either dig through my library or screw over my opponents draw. Still really good!
Dissipate: So countering AND exiling is good right?
Orzhov Charm: See other charms about versatile uses. This one is mostly used to replace Ultimate price since its an instant that kills anything. Its other uses are kinda meh in quality.
Sphinx's Revelation: Absolute great card, gains life draws cards and digs deep for more mana. Oh you swing for 5, kk I'll take it and then cast this for 5, break even and draw 5 cards. Amazing. We all know that this card is too good not to play.
Thought Scour: A cheap draw a card card that can mill as well, eat through your cards or screw over an opponents draw?
Supreme Verdict: An un-counterable board wipe for 4 mana, this is why people cant have nice things. Which is exactly why you play it!
PLaneswalkers:
Jace, Architect of Thought: Blunts aggro assaults, draws you free cards, and the ult can be devastating if you have sadistic streak and can get it to happen. Mostly this is to draw cards.
Jace, Memory Adept: Card draw, Milling, and more card draw? Great and very underrated, an interesting wincon (goes with nephalia) and can be used with the new duskmantle guildmage who may be an option for side deck material.
Tamiyo, the Moon Sage: Taps something down, card draw against aggro, and DAT EMBLEM dear lord...Shes an expensive card for a reason guys!
Creatures:
Duskmantle Seer: This is Bob2.0, a 4/4 flyer is no joking matter, and on top of that hes only dealing a usual 3 or less to me while playing against mid-range or even re-animator his dealing 4-7 and also draws kill spells! A great card and most people will see that soon enough.
Obzedat, Ghost Council: The big bad Orzhov leader, a constant life drain effect that blunts the damage from shocks and is immune to sorcery speed kill spells. And he swings for 5 which can make things trouble for a lot of people.
Restoration Angel: Shes a little iffy in this deck, I used to run snaps but I didn't feel I needed them so she is only there to protect seer from removal or keep something permanently with Soul Ransom.
Enchantments:
Detention Sphere: With all the tokens running around this card can be a board wipe against those strategies, it can hit planeswalkers and anything that isn't a land, so its playing o-ring and dear lord it does it well.
Soul Ransom: Dear lord, this card steals a creature and can even draw you cards while making your opponent lose cards, the advantage is ridiculous. Even better, if you want that opposing thragtusk, why not restoration angel it, sure you don't get 2 cards but you do get 5 life and a beast and a permanent thrag on your field for the loss of one card!
Some cards that were cut:
Snapcaster
Duskmantle Guildmage
Blind Obediance (which I really want to run)
Orzhov Keyrune
Dimir Keyrune
Terminus
Consuming Aberation
Mind Grind
Whispering Madness (windfall that keeps happening!)
Thespian's Stage
Let's say I didn't read anything about no spoilers :-p
Duskmantle Seer is not a card for a control deck. Losing three per turn against an aggro deck is asking for an early grave, especially since they're only losing 1-2 per turn. You're playing a deck with big CMC. The last thing you want to do is lose life equal to that. That card is more appropriate in aggro or tempo decks, where it's the top of the curve.
Thought Scour, without any use for self-mill and only one Tamiyo, doesn't pull its weight. Don't consider it as card draw. See it that way : if you put another card in there inlieu of this one, you'd have simply drawn that card.
I don't like Aetherize. In a deck where you have little to no creature to lose to a Supreme Verdict, the latter is almost strictly better. Do you want to deal with their threats or just slow them? It's the same CMC. Also, think about all the ETB effects in the format
I'm not a fan of Orzhov Charm. The removal option shoots in your foot (you don't have much lifegain to balance it), the last doesn't exists in your deck and the first will rarely be useful. You'd be better off with Ultimate Price, Tragic Slip or Victim of Night, depending on your meta.
I'm not a fan of Dimir's either, but I know a lot of people like it. I just don't think it does enough for what we want, but you can read more about its uses in the threads about it. I could be mistaken.
Are you sure about Merciless Eviction? I see it as a Terminus with the useful ability removed for a versatility you won't use very often. It's not a bad choice per se, but the possibility of casting Terminus for W against aggro decks kind of wins it for me.
Soul Ransom is a card I have a lot of difficulty to gauge. On one hand, four-mana control magic is nice against every deck that's not hyper-aggro. On the other hand, It's pretty much dead against a savvy player in the late-game, when he'll have extra lands to pitch to it and it'll become a four-mana Divination. I'm especially wary of the possibility of surpirse-I-take-it-back. Overall, I think it's worth the inclusion, though. Maybe only as SB? I don't know. It sure is a difficult card :-D
Obzedat, for all those who will have the budget, will be a very good thing to have. The lifegain, protection against sorcery-speed and pressure will do a lot for the deck. Unfortunately, I don't have the 70$ to spend on two copies, but he sure as hell can help the deck
Blind Obediance could be in your sideboard. I know it'll be in mine. It's really good against BR aggro and the eventual Boros or BRW aggro that will spawn from GTC. It's notmaindeckable, though, because it does pretty much nothing against a deck with no hastey critters.
Resto seems like it doesn't have a lot of targets. Alone, it's still good, but not amazing. Maybe you could add a couple of utility creatures?
Your decklist seems very good against Control and other slow decks (counters, control magic, mill), but I think it'd fall short to really fast decks. You start to really control the board around turn four, with very few answers or blockers before that. It could prove a problem against the realy fast decks.
Hope that helps! We're all trying to evaluate GTC at the moment, though, with little to no playtesting, so take everything I say about those cards with a grain of salt!
The fact that it costs three makes it hard to like it. With a lot of Hexproof or resilient creatures around, I prefer, at the same CMC, the exile effect of D-Sphere or O-Ring. But then, I'm tapout. For Drawgo build, I don't think it fits either. Three mana? Aggro decks are already overwhelming you, and your spot removal is really good against those decks, because the creatures of control deck (Thraggy, Resto) are resilient to spot removal.
But it could fill a niche in your three-drop slot if you don't run any Keyrunes and very few D-Sphere.
I don't run keyrunes. My first build had them but I did not like them. The build probably did not support them tbh. I know you run them, do you think you will replace your flyer with unblockable? Both have pros and cons, I'd like to know your opinion since you run them.
I like the Keyrunes more for the mana boost than the body, in fact. I wouldn't switch to unblockable for two reasons. First, I rarely want to attack with it on a board that isn't empty, considering I play very defensively, so unblockable wouldn't make that much of a difference. Second, it's one of my few answers to Hellkite. He decimates all my blockers when he enters the battlefield, so I can activate it to block afterwards. Very useful against BR aggro, considering I have no instant-speed removal. Since we're playing reactively, I prefer the possibility of blocking flyers in general to the possibility of going through them, know what I mean?
As for the removal suite, you have to adapt to your local metagame and your problematic opposing creatures. If you're playing a lot of control, you might prefer answers that can deal with noncreature permanents, such as O-Ring and D-Sphere. If you're playing against a lot of aggro, you'll prefer Tragic Slip and UP. If you see a lot of tokens or midrangey decks with resilient creatures, Sever the Bloodline can be quite good. If you see all of them, mix it up.
I don't like Murder. I'd play either UP or Tragic Slip over it. Haven't playtested it, though.
The only change was the sideboarded Negates for Dissipates, to help against the Reanimator matchup.
Okay, this is a bit strange. My store does both Modern and Standard. Last night, there weren't anough people for Standard, so I had to play Modern with my Standard deck. I was a bit uncomfortable at first, having no idea of the Modern metagame, and was ready to get crushed repeatedly. However, four out of ten were running Standard decks, three had only just begun to play, so their decks weren't top decks, and the remaining were playing Soul Sisters, against which I have a good matchup. So I still write a trouney report because it gives a good idea of how to play the deck against different strategies you aren't expecting, and two of my opponent were playing Standard anyway.
So without further delay, here are the games!
Match 1 : Four-colors Reanimator combo (Standard-legal)
The deck : Value creatures with Angel of Glory's Rise and the classic ranimator pieces. For all I know, it looked like it was the winning list (with Chronic Floodings).
Note : When we started the match, my opponent admitted it was a deck he borrowed from his friend and didn't even know what cards he was running. He also didn't have a sideboard.
Game 1 : He... misplayed horribly the whole damn match. He played two Huntmaster of the fells and a couple other creatures. I tried to control as much as I could, Sorin dropping chump-blockers every turn to stop the bleeding a bit. Instead of skipping a turn playing a spell to flip a Huntmaster or two to deal four to Sorin and deal with him, he just kept on attacking me and dropping spell after spell, while I stabilized with a Curse, bringing his creatures to 1/1, and some removal. He also let unfavorable blocks that let me deal with his Geist-Honored Monk. Finally, since he didn't deal any damage to Sorin, I upped him to seven and stole a Huntmaster and an Angel of Glory's Rise (destroying a token as the third target), at which point he scooped.
Sideboard : In Curse, Tragic Slip x1. Out Army x2.
Game 2 : This time I sweeped on turn 4 and followed with Curse, Staff, Staff, Staff, at which point he conceded again. God I love that lockdown
The lesson : Capitalize on your opponent's mistakes. Since I didn't want him to attack Sorin, I never asked him and simply reduced my life total. Realizing he wouldn't, I planned to simply lose the minimum of life to get to Sorin's ultimate, and it worked. Read your opponent and play with that information.
2-0.
Match 2 : Bant Auras (Standard legal)
The deck : it's a netdecked list that won some big tournament lately. Basically, the creatures were Invisible Stalker, Saint Traft, Avacyn's Pilgrim, Silverblade Paladin and Fencing Ace. The auras were Rancor, Spectral Flight, Ethereal Armor and Curiosity. That made pretty much the bulk of the deck.
Note : I wasn't prepared for that deck at all.
Game 1: I kept what seemed like a good hand (I didn't know what I was playing against) with some spot removal, a keyrune and a Terminus. I think there may have been also a Sorin there. Removal, chump blockers and ultimately a sweeper. Should be good, no? Nope. He went Pilgrim, Stalker, Paladin+Rancor, Spectral Flight, Ethereal Armor. On an unblockable Hexproof guy. I could Terminus the very next turn, but never had the chance to do so. Damn.
Sideboard : In Tragic Slip x3, Duress x2. Out Army x2, Lingering x1, Keyrune x1, Traveler x1.
Game 2 : I slipped a Pilgrim, Got a two-damage attack on turn three from Stalker+Paladin, removed the Paladin, saw Rancor and Ethereal Armor with the table, and prayed all I had that he wouldn't draw another Paladin. When I swept the board, though, he played a Geist of Saint Traft, putting me on the ropes again. A timely Dgroskol Reaver saved the day, with his two card and six life every turn. Sorin also helped with his lifelinkers, and I wrapped up the game. That was close.
Game 3 : On my first turn, I Duressed him, revealing he had a risky hand : four lands, Geist, Spectral Flight, Rancor. I took the Rancor off and took the time to be happy that I had a Supreme Verdict in hand. However, much to my dismay, he drew another, and this time I had to get to Terminus to deal with it. After that, however, I dropped a Curse (heh) that made half his deck useless, then followed to warp up the game with a Reaver that brought back my life total to high level.
Lesson : If you have people with Tier decks at your store, keep in touch with the last tournament results
Note : This was his second week playing the game. He was pretty good, for a new player.
Game 1 : I got surprised by the first Darkslick Shore he played; I had forgotten we were playing Modern . He dropped Butcher Ghoul into Cemetary Reaper into Captain into the reanimator zombie into Skinrender, with a nice curve and a lot of potential damage. Unfortunately for him, I had two Lingering Souls with the mana to cast and flashback them, so I had all the time in the world to get to seven mana while staying in the two digits. Still had no sweepers, though. Capitalized on his aggresiveness to kill his lords with my tokens, then dropped multiple removal spell (O-Ring x2, Sever the Bloodline x2 with both flashbacks) that all happenned to exile (hehehe) and finished with Curse+Staff+Staff for the lockdown. He got me down to 3 life (I hoped he wouldn't draw two Messengers for the kill), but I finally finished him with a Army of the Damned back up with Sorin's Emblem. Yes, I pointed out the irony. I also shouted "BRAIIIIIINS" in the middle of the store.
Sideboard : In Curse, Tragic Slip x2. Out Army x2, Keyrune x1.
Game 2 : He looked at his hand and was hesitating on whether or not he should mulligan. Knowing he was a new player, I helped him a bit. He told me he had one land. I told him that he shouldn't keep that hand unless he could do the whole match with two lands. I pointed out that one card in three was a land. He agreed and mulliganned, getting a much better hand. He went Highborn into Captain into Reaper into Ghoulcaller's Chant into Captain into Highborn. Fortunately for me, I had a Curse and multple removal in hand, and he didn't realize that his Reaper was 1/1 because of the Curse, which enabled me to block it with a Vampire token and take out both it and Highborn at the same time. Two Staves completed the lockdown, and I kept a Sever preciously in case of an Obliterator that never came.
The lesson : Decks that relies a lot on the graveyard hate my deck, which exiles a lot of things. In today's Standard, with Thragtusk and Angel and such, there are very few played creatures against which exiling is much better than destroying. Playing against older cards made me remember the days where O-Ring's exiling clause actually mattered. It's strange that it doesn'T these days. Oh well. That was another meta(s).
Game 1: Mulliganned to five. I had Terminus in hand, but he went Soul Warden, Soul attendant, Ajani's Pridemate, S-Hawk x2, Ascendant. On my side, I tried to deal with them as best I could, but he simply overwhelmed me with all his creatures. Couldn't get to six mana and lost.
Sideboard : In 2x Tragic Slip, Curse. Out 2x Army, 1x Keyrune.
Game 2: This time I was waiting for him. Slipped his first-drop, O-Ring the second (Honor of the Pure), Severed the third, Terminused three S-Hawk he searched for again with the fourth copy (crap), then dropped Curse, which stopped him right there (count the number of X/1s in the deck ). From there, got a Staff and beat him up with Sorin+emblems.
Game 3 : My starting hand had two Drownyards and an Island as its only lands. Wary of the difficulty of getting to mana for Supreme Verdict and Curse in time, I mulliganned. Six cards, only one land with wasn't even a dual, and all the cards costed too high. Mulliganned to five, no freaking land. I laughed at my bad luck and went down to four, knowing it would be a very difficult battle. I had one plain, a D-Sphere, Sorin and a Curse. Kept the hand. He started aggressively with an Ascendant. I drew an Island, played the Plains and passed. He dropped another Ascendant, staying at one land. I drew Terminus. I slammed it on the table and miracle'd it, saving my butt full-time. He then played Martyr of Sands, and still got no second land. Think about it. He has seven cards in hand. the following turn, he attacked, then sacced it for 21 friggin' life, going up to 42 (this is the fourth turn). Remember those two Ascendants Terminus dealt with? Yeah. During that time, I drew two more lands, but looked helplessly at my Curse that costed two black mana (I had only one) and his Squadron Hawks that were getting together on his side. Damn Squadron. And then, he did what I really, really needed : he cast Path to Exile on a Keyrune to stop it from blocking his third Serra Ascendant that was aimed at Sorin. I searched for a Swamp, let Sorin die, then happily casted Curse on my turn, removaing everything but the Ascendant. By that time, he was a 55 life. Yes, 55. I wondered if I should quit attacking and go for the Drownyard route when an end of turn Revelation got me two Lingering Souls and a Sorin. I dropped Sorin, got an emblem and made eight tokens. He kept his ascendant on defense. Next turn, I +1'd Sorin and attacked with 8 2/1, but since he blocked one, he only took a net 6 damage. That couldn't do. On the next turn, though, I got another Emblem, which made Sorin die, then dropped another Sorin and got antoher Emblem, getting my seven remaining tokens at 4/1. I attacked and even if he blocked, he took 20 net damage, which was enough to put him under 30 life, and his Ascendant died, letting me attack next turn with 6 4/1 for 24 more damage that killed him.
The lesson : Don't do what I did if your opponent plays sweepers. If he doesn't and you know it, though, eight tokens with Emblems works wonders. Also, the "double emblem trick" has surprise-killed many of my opponent. Don't be afraid to sacrifice a Sorin to drop another. They rarely expect it.
2-1, 2-0, 2-1, 2-0.
And this is how I won the night, even though half the deck were Modern and I mulliganned to four in my last game. I learned a lot from these three matchups I had never played. Sure, if you have limited time for playtesting, you're better off with Standard decks, but if you really are passionnate about Magic and look for ways to better understand the gears of your deck, play against other types of decks in Modern or Legacy. Don't worry if you lose, though; they have an edge. However, if you have the time, it can tell you a lot, even if you get utterly destroyed, about what your deck does and what it doesn't, and that can help you in other matchups. Of course, don't play against manaless Dredge
We can still deal with Ilness with out removal. It it should see play, we'd pack additionnal removal in the side. If your local meta is prompt to run such narrow sideboard cards, or if you're infamous with your deck, add some cheap enchantment removal in the side. It's not perfect, but it'll do the trick.
Now that the full spoiler is out, we can discuss our future strategies! I'll certainly get a playset of Blind Obedience to take the place of my sideboarded Feeling of Dreads. The Orzhov leaders are a nice finisher that can hold their ground against aggro with the drain life and the pressure. I don't like the Charms, though, but Dimir's should be good in a drawgo list like most of yours, guys.
With the Keyrunes, I think Azorius's is still the best in a vacuum, since the flying can block Hellkite or Aristocrat and they're primarily aimed for defense. Orzhov's is too costly for marginal advantage (one lifegain per turn and harder to kill in exchange of the inability to block flyers and to kill X/2s). However, if running four, it could be preferable to get a 3/1 or 2/2 split with Orzhov's for mana fixing, or with Dimir's if you run multiple Cipher cards.
In a deck with a lot of 1/1 flyers, it could be interesting to run Cipher cards, who can often be easy two castings. I don't see a lot of useful Cipher cards, though. They're all so overcosted it hurts. Maybe the one that copies in the sideboard against control, but even then, you might be better off with Memory Adept.
High Priest of Penance could take the place of Doomed Traveler. I could see it being preferable in a lot of cirmcunstances, and it even does the Staff trick against Hellkite, but more broadly.
That's what I've seen right now. ANyone else has cards that caught their eyes?
Devour Flesh into Lilianna seems pretty unbeatable for most aggro decks. I'm not sure Barter in Blood is the right choice over supreme verdict, but in a deck that wants to drop Lilianna on 3 having 1UWW on four doesn't seem easy, even with the shocklands at our disposal.
The end game is basically Drownyard, but Homicidal Seclusion is no slouch either. Good luck racing a 5/3 Unblockable Lifelink Keyrune. Is it better than Jace, Memory Adept for the same mana cost? Well, you don't have to protect it so you can pretty much slam it the firt oppurtunity you have, so its definitely easier to get online. Lingering Souls produces 2 tokens, but I doubt it would be difficult to throw one away, especially in a deck that runs tons of edicts and spot removal. There is no shame in throwing a removal spell at one of your own Spirits if its gonna let you take out a walker or a big creautre because of an active Seclusion. Jace is a very nice win condition at 5 mana, but I don't think it will ever get you out from behind like a seclusion could, testing will tell.
To me the card that stands out the as the weakest link is Snapcaster Mage.
6 Of your 17 targets have flashback, 3 of them are Sphinx Revelation and 2 of them are Terminus. Devour Flesh is your best target, Psychic Strike is okay, and arguably better than Dissipate because UUU for flashback on Snappy might be tough, and Duress is a little narrow. I would likely scale back the snapcasters to 1 or 2-of and replace Psychic Strike with Dissipate and up the number of Augur of Bolas to 4, as you will always be happy to cast an Augur and he is much better if you need to proactively cast a Restoration Angel.
The rest seems pretty solid, though Forbidden Alchemy has always underperformed for me. At any point in the game if I have 2 in my hand I usually feel pretty terrible, I would probably scale that back to a 1-of as well.
To me the card that stands out the as the weakest link is Snapcaster Mage.
6 Of your 17 targets have flashback, 3 of them are Sphinx Revelation and 2 of them are Terminus. Devour Flesh is your best target, Psychic Strike is okay, and arguably better than Dissipate because UUU for flashback on Snappy might be tough, and Duress is a little narrow. I would likely scale back the snapcasters to 1 or 2-of and replace Psychic Strike with Dissipate and up the number of Augur of Bolas to 4, as you will always be happy to cast an Augur and he is much better if you need to proactively cast a Restoration Angel.
The rest seems pretty solid, though Forbidden Alchemy has always underperformed for me. At any point in the game if I have 2 in my hand I usually feel pretty terrible, I would probably scale that back to a 1-of as well.
My reason for playing flashback is that it works well with the alchemy and discarding via Liliana. I also figured Psychic Strike may be easier to cast and helps us mill in the process. Not sure if the mill is better than exiling or not. I just figured it brought better consistency to the deck. Also, appetite for brains may be better MD than Duress, but I figured it is never bad to have hand disruption. Maybe the MD duress/appetite for brains is a weakness and I should just MB sever? Alchemy does greater digging than think twice which I like. I wish we had better card drawing right now.
Psychic Strike has to be replaced with Dissipate. Exile isbetter, and mill two isn't worth it.
Agreed with the above on Snappy.
Devour Flesh seems worse than Ultimate Price, unless your meta is full of Hexproofers.
Glaring Spotlight suffers from card disadvatange. It just doesn't do anything. all it does is let you hit Hexproofers with another card, meaning it's a 2-for-1 already. Anyway, you have only D-Sphere as targeted removal, so it really does nothing interesting. The four to get unblockability will matter much less often than you think.
I'd be wary of not running any Supreme Verdict and only two Terminuses. Not enough sweepers.
Devour Flesh seems worse than Ultimate Price, unless your meta is full of hexproofers.
The meta is rampant with Hexproof dudes right now. Bant Hexproof is in multiples in every recent top 8 and I don't see that changing in the near future.
And even if this wasn't the case, I still think Devour flesh is better than Ultimate Price, keeping the board clear regardless of multicolored threats or hexproof really lets control decks get to the turns when they can sweep the board, or keeping the board clear and thus saving hit points can let control decks play removal spells that would otherwise be too costly (Murder, costly by mana, and Orzhov Charm, costly by life)
Obzedat is really good as a finisher, but a couple of worrying things I've seen with this shell through about 10 matches:
- The mana base vs aggro can be brutal, and it doesn't help when you end up pinging yourself for 2-6 dmg consistently.
- While Obzedat can quickly make up some of that life loss, he has a few things working against him: his mana cost can make it difficult to consistently drop him T5, he can be chumped to infinity, and the fact that he's Legendary will work against you.
- I think we'll need another win-con outside of the drownyard and Obzedat.
- Barter in Blood should be an auto-include.
One other thought - Soul Ransom is the real deal, though not sure it's MB worthy at this point. Not every opponent will have a single creature worth stealing, but the inherent card advantage when stealing, say, a Thragtusk can basically win you the game on the spot.
One other thought - Soul Ransom is the real deal, though not sure it's MB worthy at this point. Not every opponent will have a single creature worth stealing, but the inherent card advantage when stealing, say, a Thragtusk can basically win you the game on the spot.
This is what i've been saying. It's worse matches are Control and Flash. Flash it can still do a little work if they tap out for a thundermaw or main phase angel, but its likely coming out after G1.. and against control, well it depends how dedicated they are to the mill plan. Stealing an Augur of Bolas seems pretty bad, but I guess it's an option if you play rune-chanter's pike, or as ive been suggesting, homicidal seclusion.
I agree on Barter in Blood, personally I think this should be our go to 'sweeper' effect since it will likely be cast following some sort of removal spell. Boros Charm is a real card and the 'destroy' clause on supreme verdict may turn out to be a real drawback, and not to mention WW on verdict is a little restrictive.
I disagree on Obzedat though. I'm just not as high on this card as everyone else. It doesn't play well with sweepers and really isn't a great blocker either. I just don't feel it impacts the board enough to be considered anywhere outside of control mirrors and skewing the mana base for a sideboard card seems bad. If you need a card for control mirrors play Curse of Echoes.
Bant Hexproof is easily dealt with via multiple sweepers we already have, IMO. If it's really a problem, I'd sideboard edict effects, but it depends on your local meta. I would certainly not maindeck it, though, unless you really have a meta choke-full on it.
The problem with Edicts is that they never it that on creature that causes you trouble, expecially against aggro where they always have a couple of creatures on board.
I wouldn't play the whole package of Shocks. We can be pretty good with none of them, so 2-5 should be the right spot, depending of course on the deck.
Obzedat being chump-blockable is no problem. Every time it kills a creature, you've just cast a free removal spell. See it that way. And drained your opponent for two life. The real problem is its mana cost. You need the mana base to support it, and I think I may have underestimated that problem. You're right.
While Barter is great against Boros Charm, Supreme Verdict can hit more creatures and can't be countered (which is relevant in some matchups). Keep in mind that if your opponent has three creatures on the battlefield, he'll keep his best one. I'm not convinced.
Soul Ransom bugs me. Would we play Mind Control? Sure, it costs one less, but it has the possibility of screwing you real fast. Stole that Thundermaw? Let me take it back and kill you before you used those cards. Late in the game and it's stalling? Let me pitch those two lands I don't even need and you've paid four for a Divination. Also keep in mind that you have to steal something that is worth at least four mana without its ETB effects for it to be really worth it. I wouldn't maindeck it, and considering our amount of little evasive critters, I'd side the six-mana cipher copier against control before that one. All in all, I'm not sure, but I don't like it.
Take their guy with Soul Ransom, and when they try and take it back, Devour Flesh yourself xD. I ramble too much lol, but that would be cool if it happened, or even could happen.
Cards I don't think we've talked about yet that I think are at least worth commenting on. Some of the cards I've linked here obviously aren't usuable in this decktype, but I felt that some discussion would still be appropriate.
I think the Primordials are pretty cool, but for that mana cost I need a game winner (like Army of the Damned). Their effects are quite nice though and could warrant testing at least.
I would probably like Feeling of Dread better than Gridlock tbh. Gridlock cost 3 to get the same effects as FoD and doesn't have flashback. However it can stop more than two creatures which stalls for you until you get that board wipe. Don't think this one would deserve any testing but don't take my word for it.
Hands of Binding would be nice if you took the Spirit Token route and synergizes great with Tamiyo. This one could be good on Dimir or Azorius Keyrune as well. Since I run Lingering Souls I'd prolly test this myself.
Biomass Mutation I listed for the spirit token users as well. The mana cost kills it though, but Sorin's Emblem could help reduce it a bit. Kinda gimmicky imo.
Executioner's Swing I don't like too much, but it will definitely kill most common creatures.. The creature just has to deal damage, doesn't have to be combat damage and it doesn't have to be to you. If Thundermaw Hellkite deals any damage before combat (through its ETB effect) you can chop that thing down. Flashing in Snapcaster and blocking will let you flash this back and nab a revenge kill with it. Unfortunately all of these situations are X-for-1's which is not what this deck should be aiming for.
You all can discuss the rest
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2x Drowned Catacomb
2x Ghost Quarter
2x Glacial Fortress
2x Godless Shrine
3x Hallowed Fountain
4x Island
2x Isolated Chapel
3x Nephalia Drownyard
3x Plains
1x Swamp
2x Watery Grave
2x AEtherize
2x Azorius Charm
1x Dimir Charm
2x Dissipate
2x Orzhov Charm
3x Sphinx's Revelation
3x Thought Scour
Sorcery (4)
2x Merciless Eviction
2x Supreme Verdict
2x Jace, Architect of Thought
1x Jace, Memory Adept
1x Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
Creature (7)
3x Duskmantle Seer
2x Obzedat, Ghost Council
2x Restoration Angel
Enchantment (4)
2x Detention Sphere
2x Soul Ransom
This is my current List for a Standard esper control after gatecrash is released. Sure I know that only half of the cards are spoiled but Oh well I like to create before.
Heres why I made the choices
Land:
Ghost Quarter: This is good for hitting those pesky odd lands and can even be used on my own lands (which is horrible) to get a land I need.
Glacial Fortress: See Drowned Catacomb above.
Godless Shrine: The Shocks are really important, they are dual lands that can enter untapped which is a great thing, the only downside is the 2 damage, but oh well.
Hallowed Fountain: Shockland, see Godless shrine
Island: Most overpowered card in the game.
Isolated Chapel: See Drowned Catacombs.
Nephalia Drownyard: This can be a very grind-y wincon, if all else falls through just mill them, or if you have extra mana at the end of the op's turn, why not just mill 3 from them?
Plains: Slightly worse than the Island
Swamp: See plains.
Watery Grave: See shocklands above lolz.
Instants:
Azorius Charm: Versatility, Lifegain is good especially with shocklands, Drawing a card is a 1for1 so that's decent, and the last ability is to ruin those annoying decks that attack. Overall great card.
Dimir Charm: I truly love this card, Like the other charms its filled with versatility, The sorcery countering is eh, the killing is very limited, and honestly its really only going to be used to either dig through my library or screw over my opponents draw. Still really good!
Dissipate: So countering AND exiling is good right?
Orzhov Charm: See other charms about versatile uses. This one is mostly used to replace Ultimate price since its an instant that kills anything. Its other uses are kinda meh in quality.
Sphinx's Revelation: Absolute great card, gains life draws cards and digs deep for more mana. Oh you swing for 5, kk I'll take it and then cast this for 5, break even and draw 5 cards. Amazing. We all know that this card is too good not to play.
Thought Scour: A cheap draw a card card that can mill as well, eat through your cards or screw over an opponents draw?
Sorceries:
Supreme Verdict: An un-counterable board wipe for 4 mana, this is why people cant have nice things. Which is exactly why you play it!
PLaneswalkers:
Jace, Memory Adept: Card draw, Milling, and more card draw? Great and very underrated, an interesting wincon (goes with nephalia) and can be used with the new duskmantle guildmage who may be an option for side deck material.
Tamiyo, the Moon Sage: Taps something down, card draw against aggro, and DAT EMBLEM dear lord...Shes an expensive card for a reason guys!
Creatures:
Obzedat, Ghost Council: The big bad Orzhov leader, a constant life drain effect that blunts the damage from shocks and is immune to sorcery speed kill spells. And he swings for 5 which can make things trouble for a lot of people.
Restoration Angel: Shes a little iffy in this deck, I used to run snaps but I didn't feel I needed them so she is only there to protect seer from removal or keep something permanently with Soul Ransom.
Enchantments:
Soul Ransom: Dear lord, this card steals a creature and can even draw you cards while making your opponent lose cards, the advantage is ridiculous. Even better, if you want that opposing thragtusk, why not restoration angel it, sure you don't get 2 cards but you do get 5 life and a beast and a permanent thrag on your field for the loss of one card!
Some cards that were cut:
Snapcaster
Duskmantle Guildmage
Blind Obediance (which I really want to run)
Orzhov Keyrune
Dimir Keyrune
Terminus
Consuming Aberation
Mind Grind
Whispering Madness (windfall that keeps happening!)
Thespian's Stage
Standard:
WBGJunk MidrangeWBG
Modern
WUBGKiki PodWUBG
EDH:
WUBRGReaper King PodWUBRG
Duskmantle Seer is not a card for a control deck. Losing three per turn against an aggro deck is asking for an early grave, especially since they're only losing 1-2 per turn. You're playing a deck with big CMC. The last thing you want to do is lose life equal to that. That card is more appropriate in aggro or tempo decks, where it's the top of the curve.
Thought Scour, without any use for self-mill and only one Tamiyo, doesn't pull its weight. Don't consider it as card draw. See it that way : if you put another card in there inlieu of this one, you'd have simply drawn that card.
I don't like Aetherize. In a deck where you have little to no creature to lose to a Supreme Verdict, the latter is almost strictly better. Do you want to deal with their threats or just slow them? It's the same CMC. Also, think about all the ETB effects in the format
I'm not a fan of Orzhov Charm. The removal option shoots in your foot (you don't have much lifegain to balance it), the last doesn't exists in your deck and the first will rarely be useful. You'd be better off with Ultimate Price, Tragic Slip or Victim of Night, depending on your meta.
I'm not a fan of Dimir's either, but I know a lot of people like it. I just don't think it does enough for what we want, but you can read more about its uses in the threads about it. I could be mistaken.
Are you sure about Merciless Eviction? I see it as a Terminus with the useful ability removed for a versatility you won't use very often. It's not a bad choice per se, but the possibility of casting Terminus for W against aggro decks kind of wins it for me.
Soul Ransom is a card I have a lot of difficulty to gauge. On one hand, four-mana control magic is nice against every deck that's not hyper-aggro. On the other hand, It's pretty much dead against a savvy player in the late-game, when he'll have extra lands to pitch to it and it'll become a four-mana Divination. I'm especially wary of the possibility of surpirse-I-take-it-back. Overall, I think it's worth the inclusion, though. Maybe only as SB? I don't know. It sure is a difficult card :-D
Obzedat, for all those who will have the budget, will be a very good thing to have. The lifegain, protection against sorcery-speed and pressure will do a lot for the deck. Unfortunately, I don't have the 70$ to spend on two copies, but he sure as hell can help the deck
Blind Obediance could be in your sideboard. I know it'll be in mine. It's really good against BR aggro and the eventual Boros or BRW aggro that will spawn from GTC. It's notmaindeckable, though, because it does pretty much nothing against a deck with no hastey critters.
Resto seems like it doesn't have a lot of targets. Alone, it's still good, but not amazing. Maybe you could add a couple of utility creatures?
Your decklist seems very good against Control and other slow decks (counters, control magic, mill), but I think it'd fall short to really fast decks. You start to really control the board around turn four, with very few answers or blockers before that. It could prove a problem against the realy fast decks.
Hope that helps! We're all trying to evaluate GTC at the moment, though, with little to no playtesting, so take everything I say about those cards with a grain of salt!
But it could fill a niche in your three-drop slot if you don't run any Keyrunes and very few D-Sphere.
My spot removal suite consists of:
As for the removal suite, you have to adapt to your local metagame and your problematic opposing creatures. If you're playing a lot of control, you might prefer answers that can deal with noncreature permanents, such as O-Ring and D-Sphere. If you're playing against a lot of aggro, you'll prefer Tragic Slip and UP. If you see a lot of tokens or midrangey decks with resilient creatures, Sever the Bloodline can be quite good. If you see all of them, mix it up.
I don't like Murder. I'd play either UP or Tragic Slip over it. Haven't playtested it, though.
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Island
4 Plains
3 Swamp
2 Nephalia Drownyard
Creatures
1 Drogskol Reaver
3 Doomed Traveler
Other spells
2 Terminus
3 Supreme Verdict
3 Oblivion Ring
1 Detention Sphere
2 Sever the Bloodline
4 Azorius Keyrune
2 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Army of the Damned
4 Sorin, Lord of Innistad
4 Lingering Souls
2 Curse of Death's Hold
3 Staff of Nin
1 Curse of Death's Hold
3 Witchbane Orb
4 Feeling of Dread
2 Dissipate
2 Duress
3 Tragic Slip
The only change was the sideboarded Negates for Dissipates, to help against the Reanimator matchup.
Okay, this is a bit strange. My store does both Modern and Standard. Last night, there weren't anough people for Standard, so I had to play Modern with my Standard deck. I was a bit uncomfortable at first, having no idea of the Modern metagame, and was ready to get crushed repeatedly. However, four out of ten were running Standard decks, three had only just begun to play, so their decks weren't top decks, and the remaining were playing Soul Sisters, against which I have a good matchup. So I still write a trouney report because it gives a good idea of how to play the deck against different strategies you aren't expecting, and two of my opponent were playing Standard anyway.
So without further delay, here are the games!
Match 1 : Four-colors Reanimator combo (Standard-legal)
The deck : Value creatures with Angel of Glory's Rise and the classic ranimator pieces. For all I know, it looked like it was the winning list (with Chronic Floodings).
Note : When we started the match, my opponent admitted it was a deck he borrowed from his friend and didn't even know what cards he was running. He also didn't have a sideboard.
Game 1 : He... misplayed horribly the whole damn match. He played two Huntmaster of the fells and a couple other creatures. I tried to control as much as I could, Sorin dropping chump-blockers every turn to stop the bleeding a bit. Instead of skipping a turn playing a spell to flip a Huntmaster or two to deal four to Sorin and deal with him, he just kept on attacking me and dropping spell after spell, while I stabilized with a Curse, bringing his creatures to 1/1, and some removal. He also let unfavorable blocks that let me deal with his Geist-Honored Monk. Finally, since he didn't deal any damage to Sorin, I upped him to seven and stole a Huntmaster and an Angel of Glory's Rise (destroying a token as the third target), at which point he scooped.
Sideboard : In Curse, Tragic Slip x1. Out Army x2.
Game 2 : This time I sweeped on turn 4 and followed with Curse, Staff, Staff, Staff, at which point he conceded again. God I love that lockdown
The lesson : Capitalize on your opponent's mistakes. Since I didn't want him to attack Sorin, I never asked him and simply reduced my life total. Realizing he wouldn't, I planned to simply lose the minimum of life to get to Sorin's ultimate, and it worked. Read your opponent and play with that information.
2-0.
Match 2 : Bant Auras (Standard legal)
The deck : it's a netdecked list that won some big tournament lately. Basically, the creatures were Invisible Stalker, Saint Traft, Avacyn's Pilgrim, Silverblade Paladin and Fencing Ace. The auras were Rancor, Spectral Flight, Ethereal Armor and Curiosity. That made pretty much the bulk of the deck.
Note : I wasn't prepared for that deck at all.
Game 1: I kept what seemed like a good hand (I didn't know what I was playing against) with some spot removal, a keyrune and a Terminus. I think there may have been also a Sorin there. Removal, chump blockers and ultimately a sweeper. Should be good, no? Nope. He went Pilgrim, Stalker, Paladin+Rancor, Spectral Flight, Ethereal Armor. On an unblockable Hexproof guy. I could Terminus the very next turn, but never had the chance to do so. Damn.
Sideboard : In Tragic Slip x3, Duress x2. Out Army x2, Lingering x1, Keyrune x1, Traveler x1.
Game 2 : I slipped a Pilgrim, Got a two-damage attack on turn three from Stalker+Paladin, removed the Paladin, saw Rancor and Ethereal Armor with the table, and prayed all I had that he wouldn't draw another Paladin. When I swept the board, though, he played a Geist of Saint Traft, putting me on the ropes again. A timely Dgroskol Reaver saved the day, with his two card and six life every turn. Sorin also helped with his lifelinkers, and I wrapped up the game. That was close.
Game 3 : On my first turn, I Duressed him, revealing he had a risky hand : four lands, Geist, Spectral Flight, Rancor. I took the Rancor off and took the time to be happy that I had a Supreme Verdict in hand. However, much to my dismay, he drew another, and this time I had to get to Terminus to deal with it. After that, however, I dropped a Curse (heh) that made half his deck useless, then followed to warp up the game with a Reaver that brought back my life total to high level.
Lesson : If you have people with Tier decks at your store, keep in touch with the last tournament results
2-1, 2-0.
Match 3 : UB Zombies (Modern legal)
The deck : Diregraf Captain, Cemetary Reaper, Ghoulcaller's Chant, that zombies that brings back another zombie at random, Phyrexian Obliterator, Skinrender, Messenger, Gravecrawler, Highborn Ghoul, Butcher Ghoul and Go for the Throat were the main cards of the deck. He used lords to get his zombies to high numbers and trash the opponent.
Note : This was his second week playing the game. He was pretty good, for a new player.
Game 1 : I got surprised by the first Darkslick Shore he played; I had forgotten we were playing Modern . He dropped Butcher Ghoul into Cemetary Reaper into Captain into the reanimator zombie into Skinrender, with a nice curve and a lot of potential damage. Unfortunately for him, I had two Lingering Souls with the mana to cast and flashback them, so I had all the time in the world to get to seven mana while staying in the two digits. Still had no sweepers, though. Capitalized on his aggresiveness to kill his lords with my tokens, then dropped multiple removal spell (O-Ring x2, Sever the Bloodline x2 with both flashbacks) that all happenned to exile (hehehe) and finished with Curse+Staff+Staff for the lockdown. He got me down to 3 life (I hoped he wouldn't draw two Messengers for the kill), but I finally finished him with a Army of the Damned back up with Sorin's Emblem. Yes, I pointed out the irony. I also shouted "BRAIIIIIINS" in the middle of the store.
Sideboard : In Curse, Tragic Slip x2. Out Army x2, Keyrune x1.
Game 2 : He looked at his hand and was hesitating on whether or not he should mulligan. Knowing he was a new player, I helped him a bit. He told me he had one land. I told him that he shouldn't keep that hand unless he could do the whole match with two lands. I pointed out that one card in three was a land. He agreed and mulliganned, getting a much better hand. He went Highborn into Captain into Reaper into Ghoulcaller's Chant into Captain into Highborn. Fortunately for me, I had a Curse and multple removal in hand, and he didn't realize that his Reaper was 1/1 because of the Curse, which enabled me to block it with a Vampire token and take out both it and Highborn at the same time. Two Staves completed the lockdown, and I kept a Sever preciously in case of an Obliterator that never came.
The lesson : Decks that relies a lot on the graveyard hate my deck, which exiles a lot of things. In today's Standard, with Thragtusk and Angel and such, there are very few played creatures against which exiling is much better than destroying. Playing against older cards made me remember the days where O-Ring's exiling clause actually mattered. It's strange that it doesn'T these days. Oh well. That was another meta(s).
2-0, 2-1, 2-0.
Match 3 : Soul Sisters (Modern legal)
The deck : Gain a ton of life and profit with Serra Ascendant. Against most aggro deck, it completely destroys them. It played Martyr of Sands, Soul Warden, Soul Attendant, Ajani's Pridemate, Path to Exile, the infamous Squadron Hawk, Ranger of Eos, Spectral Possession, Honor of the Pure and Windbrisk Heights.
Game 1: Mulliganned to five. I had Terminus in hand, but he went Soul Warden, Soul attendant, Ajani's Pridemate, S-Hawk x2, Ascendant. On my side, I tried to deal with them as best I could, but he simply overwhelmed me with all his creatures. Couldn't get to six mana and lost.
Sideboard : In 2x Tragic Slip, Curse. Out 2x Army, 1x Keyrune.
Game 2: This time I was waiting for him. Slipped his first-drop, O-Ring the second (Honor of the Pure), Severed the third, Terminused three S-Hawk he searched for again with the fourth copy (crap), then dropped Curse, which stopped him right there (count the number of X/1s in the deck ). From there, got a Staff and beat him up with Sorin+emblems.
Game 3 : My starting hand had two Drownyards and an Island as its only lands. Wary of the difficulty of getting to mana for Supreme Verdict and Curse in time, I mulliganned. Six cards, only one land with wasn't even a dual, and all the cards costed too high. Mulliganned to five, no freaking land. I laughed at my bad luck and went down to four, knowing it would be a very difficult battle. I had one plain, a D-Sphere, Sorin and a Curse. Kept the hand. He started aggressively with an Ascendant. I drew an Island, played the Plains and passed. He dropped another Ascendant, staying at one land. I drew Terminus. I slammed it on the table and miracle'd it, saving my butt full-time. He then played Martyr of Sands, and still got no second land. Think about it. He has seven cards in hand. the following turn, he attacked, then sacced it for 21 friggin' life, going up to 42 (this is the fourth turn). Remember those two Ascendants Terminus dealt with? Yeah. During that time, I drew two more lands, but looked helplessly at my Curse that costed two black mana (I had only one) and his Squadron Hawks that were getting together on his side. Damn Squadron. And then, he did what I really, really needed : he cast Path to Exile on a Keyrune to stop it from blocking his third Serra Ascendant that was aimed at Sorin. I searched for a Swamp, let Sorin die, then happily casted Curse on my turn, removaing everything but the Ascendant. By that time, he was a 55 life. Yes, 55. I wondered if I should quit attacking and go for the Drownyard route when an end of turn Revelation got me two Lingering Souls and a Sorin. I dropped Sorin, got an emblem and made eight tokens. He kept his ascendant on defense. Next turn, I +1'd Sorin and attacked with 8 2/1, but since he blocked one, he only took a net 6 damage. That couldn't do. On the next turn, though, I got another Emblem, which made Sorin die, then dropped another Sorin and got antoher Emblem, getting my seven remaining tokens at 4/1. I attacked and even if he blocked, he took 20 net damage, which was enough to put him under 30 life, and his Ascendant died, letting me attack next turn with 6 4/1 for 24 more damage that killed him.
The lesson : Don't do what I did if your opponent plays sweepers. If he doesn't and you know it, though, eight tokens with Emblems works wonders. Also, the "double emblem trick" has surprise-killed many of my opponent. Don't be afraid to sacrifice a Sorin to drop another. They rarely expect it.
2-1, 2-0, 2-1, 2-0.
And this is how I won the night, even though half the deck were Modern and I mulliganned to four in my last game. I learned a lot from these three matchups I had never played. Sure, if you have limited time for playtesting, you're better off with Standard decks, but if you really are passionnate about Magic and look for ways to better understand the gears of your deck, play against other types of decks in Modern or Legacy. Don't worry if you lose, though; they have an edge. However, if you have the time, it can tell you a lot, even if you get utterly destroyed, about what your deck does and what it doesn't, and that can help you in other matchups. Of course, don't play against manaless Dredge
-----
Hope people still read my reports and enjoy them!
Current score : 13-3.
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Obzedat, Ghost Council
4 Terminus
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Dissipate
3 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Detention Sphere
4 Lingering Souls
3 Azorius Charm
3 Dimir Charm
4 Watery Grave
4 Godless Shrine
4 Hallowed Fountain
3 Isolated Chapel
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Drowned Catacomb
2 Nephalia Drownyard
Edit: Disclaimer. Not legal until Gates are being crashed
Now that the full spoiler is out, we can discuss our future strategies! I'll certainly get a playset of Blind Obedience to take the place of my sideboarded Feeling of Dreads. The Orzhov leaders are a nice finisher that can hold their ground against aggro with the drain life and the pressure. I don't like the Charms, though, but Dimir's should be good in a drawgo list like most of yours, guys.
With the Keyrunes, I think Azorius's is still the best in a vacuum, since the flying can block Hellkite or Aristocrat and they're primarily aimed for defense. Orzhov's is too costly for marginal advantage (one lifegain per turn and harder to kill in exchange of the inability to block flyers and to kill X/2s). However, if running four, it could be preferable to get a 3/1 or 2/2 split with Orzhov's for mana fixing, or with Dimir's if you run multiple Cipher cards.
In a deck with a lot of 1/1 flyers, it could be interesting to run Cipher cards, who can often be easy two castings. I don't see a lot of useful Cipher cards, though. They're all so overcosted it hurts. Maybe the one that copies in the sideboard against control, but even then, you might be better off with Memory Adept.
High Priest of Penance could take the place of Doomed Traveler. I could see it being preferable in a lot of cirmcunstances, and it even does the Staff trick against Hellkite, but more broadly.
That's what I've seen right now. ANyone else has cards that caught their eyes?
D-Sphere and O-ring don't do anything against Hexproof either. The new edict, Devour Flesh, is what you're looking for.
Here is my initial take on Esper Control.
4 Augur of Bolas
Instant/Sorcery (21)
4 Think Twice
3 Lingering Souls
3 Barter In Blood
3 Devour Flesh
3 Orzhov Charm
3 Sphinx Revelation
2 Murder
4 Dimir Keyrune
2 Lilianna of the veil
2 Souls Ransom
1 Homicidal Seclusion
Lands (26)
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Godless Shrine
3 Nephalia Drownyard
2 Watery Grave
2 Glacial Fortress
2 Swamp
1 Island
1 Plains
Devour Flesh into Lilianna seems pretty unbeatable for most aggro decks. I'm not sure Barter in Blood is the right choice over supreme verdict, but in a deck that wants to drop Lilianna on 3 having 1UWW on four doesn't seem easy, even with the shocklands at our disposal.
The end game is basically Drownyard, but Homicidal Seclusion is no slouch either. Good luck racing a 5/3 Unblockable Lifelink Keyrune. Is it better than Jace, Memory Adept for the same mana cost? Well, you don't have to protect it so you can pretty much slam it the firt oppurtunity you have, so its definitely easier to get online. Lingering Souls produces 2 tokens, but I doubt it would be difficult to throw one away, especially in a deck that runs tons of edicts and spot removal. There is no shame in throwing a removal spell at one of your own Spirits if its gonna let you take out a walker or a big creautre because of an active Seclusion. Jace is a very nice win condition at 5 mana, but I don't think it will ever get you out from behind like a seclusion could, testing will tell.
2x Augur of Bolas
4x Snapcaster Mage
3x Restoration Angel
2x Obzedat, Ghost Council
Planeswalkers (4)
2x Jace, Memory Adept
2x Liliana of the Veil
Other (19)
3x Sphinx's Revelation
3x Lingering Souls
2x Terminus
2x Psychic Strike
2x Detention Sphere
2x Duress
2x Devour Flesh
3x Forbidden Alchemy
4x Hallowed Fountain
3x Godless Shrine
3x Watery Grave
4x Isolated Chapel
4x Drowned Catacomb
4x Glacial Fortress
4x Nephalia Drownyard
3x Supreme Verdict
1x Terminus
3x Blind Obedience
2x Appetite for Brains
2x Sever the Bloodline
2x Rest in Peace
2x Glaring Spotlight
Thoughts? Not sure on the mana base yet.
To me the card that stands out the as the weakest link is Snapcaster Mage.
6 Of your 17 targets have flashback, 3 of them are Sphinx Revelation and 2 of them are Terminus. Devour Flesh is your best target, Psychic Strike is okay, and arguably better than Dissipate because UUU for flashback on Snappy might be tough, and Duress is a little narrow. I would likely scale back the snapcasters to 1 or 2-of and replace Psychic Strike with Dissipate and up the number of Augur of Bolas to 4, as you will always be happy to cast an Augur and he is much better if you need to proactively cast a Restoration Angel.
The rest seems pretty solid, though Forbidden Alchemy has always underperformed for me. At any point in the game if I have 2 in my hand I usually feel pretty terrible, I would probably scale that back to a 1-of as well.
My reason for playing flashback is that it works well with the alchemy and discarding via Liliana. I also figured Psychic Strike may be easier to cast and helps us mill in the process. Not sure if the mill is better than exiling or not. I just figured it brought better consistency to the deck. Also, appetite for brains may be better MD than Duress, but I figured it is never bad to have hand disruption. Maybe the MD duress/appetite for brains is a weakness and I should just MB sever? Alchemy does greater digging than think twice which I like. I wish we had better card drawing right now.
Agreed with the above on Snappy.
Devour Flesh seems worse than Ultimate Price, unless your meta is full of Hexproofers.
Glaring Spotlight suffers from card disadvatange. It just doesn't do anything. all it does is let you hit Hexproofers with another card, meaning it's a 2-for-1 already. Anyway, you have only D-Sphere as targeted removal, so it really does nothing interesting. The four to get unblockability will matter much less often than you think.
I'd be wary of not running any Supreme Verdict and only two Terminuses. Not enough sweepers.
The meta is rampant with Hexproof dudes right now. Bant Hexproof is in multiples in every recent top 8 and I don't see that changing in the near future.
And even if this wasn't the case, I still think Devour flesh is better than Ultimate Price, keeping the board clear regardless of multicolored threats or hexproof really lets control decks get to the turns when they can sweep the board, or keeping the board clear and thus saving hit points can let control decks play removal spells that would otherwise be too costly (Murder, costly by mana, and Orzhov Charm, costly by life)
- The mana base vs aggro can be brutal, and it doesn't help when you end up pinging yourself for 2-6 dmg consistently.
- While Obzedat can quickly make up some of that life loss, he has a few things working against him: his mana cost can make it difficult to consistently drop him T5, he can be chumped to infinity, and the fact that he's Legendary will work against you.
- I think we'll need another win-con outside of the drownyard and Obzedat.
- Barter in Blood should be an auto-include.
This is what i've been saying. It's worse matches are Control and Flash. Flash it can still do a little work if they tap out for a thundermaw or main phase angel, but its likely coming out after G1.. and against control, well it depends how dedicated they are to the mill plan. Stealing an Augur of Bolas seems pretty bad, but I guess it's an option if you play rune-chanter's pike, or as ive been suggesting, homicidal seclusion.
I agree on Barter in Blood, personally I think this should be our go to 'sweeper' effect since it will likely be cast following some sort of removal spell. Boros Charm is a real card and the 'destroy' clause on supreme verdict may turn out to be a real drawback, and not to mention WW on verdict is a little restrictive.
I disagree on Obzedat though. I'm just not as high on this card as everyone else. It doesn't play well with sweepers and really isn't a great blocker either. I just don't feel it impacts the board enough to be considered anywhere outside of control mirrors and skewing the mana base for a sideboard card seems bad. If you need a card for control mirrors play Curse of Echoes.
The problem with Edicts is that they never it that on creature that causes you trouble, expecially against aggro where they always have a couple of creatures on board.
I wouldn't play the whole package of Shocks. We can be pretty good with none of them, so 2-5 should be the right spot, depending of course on the deck.
Obzedat being chump-blockable is no problem. Every time it kills a creature, you've just cast a free removal spell. See it that way. And drained your opponent for two life. The real problem is its mana cost. You need the mana base to support it, and I think I may have underestimated that problem. You're right.
While Barter is great against Boros Charm, Supreme Verdict can hit more creatures and can't be countered (which is relevant in some matchups). Keep in mind that if your opponent has three creatures on the battlefield, he'll keep his best one. I'm not convinced.
Soul Ransom bugs me. Would we play Mind Control? Sure, it costs one less, but it has the possibility of screwing you real fast. Stole that Thundermaw? Let me take it back and kill you before you used those cards. Late in the game and it's stalling? Let me pitch those two lands I don't even need and you've paid four for a Divination. Also keep in mind that you have to steal something that is worth at least four mana without its ETB effects for it to be really worth it. I wouldn't maindeck it, and considering our amount of little evasive critters, I'd side the six-mana cipher copier against control before that one. All in all, I'm not sure, but I don't like it.
Sepulchural Primordial
Killing Glare
Wight of Precinct Six
Diluvian Primordial
Gridlock
Hands of Binding
Rapid Hybridization
Stolen Identity
Debtor's Pulpit
New Gideon
Guardian of the Gateless
Luminate Primordial
Beckon Apparition
Nightveil Specter
Biomass Mutation
Executioner's Swing
Cards I don't think we've talked about yet that I think are at least worth commenting on. Some of the cards I've linked here obviously aren't usuable in this decktype, but I felt that some discussion would still be appropriate.
I think the Primordials are pretty cool, but for that mana cost I need a game winner (like Army of the Damned). Their effects are quite nice though and could warrant testing at least.
I would probably like Feeling of Dread better than Gridlock tbh. Gridlock cost 3 to get the same effects as FoD and doesn't have flashback. However it can stop more than two creatures which stalls for you until you get that board wipe. Don't think this one would deserve any testing but don't take my word for it.
Hands of Binding would be nice if you took the Spirit Token route and synergizes great with Tamiyo. This one could be good on Dimir or Azorius Keyrune as well. Since I run Lingering Souls I'd prolly test this myself.
Biomass Mutation I listed for the spirit token users as well. The mana cost kills it though, but Sorin's Emblem could help reduce it a bit. Kinda gimmicky imo.
Executioner's Swing I don't like too much, but it will definitely kill most common creatures.. The creature just has to deal damage, doesn't have to be combat damage and it doesn't have to be to you. If Thundermaw Hellkite deals any damage before combat (through its ETB effect) you can chop that thing down. Flashing in Snapcaster and blocking will let you flash this back and nab a revenge kill with it. Unfortunately all of these situations are X-for-1's which is not what this deck should be aiming for.
You all can discuss the rest