This is just entirely strange. It's the twilight zone of magic.
New decks just keep popping up all the time.
Jeskai wins, Abzan midrange/aggro, Temur monsters/aggro, Mardu, Mono red/Boss sligh, Ascendency Combo, UB control, Esper control, Sidisi Whip, GR monsters, RW tokens and now a UW control deck has made top 8 at SCG Minneapolis.
Can you just play anything and do well?
It's such a change from last season where only 3 decks were really viable with a couple of decks sometimes doing well depending on the metagame.
Has wizards finally fixed standard?
I think they knew how badly they botched it by trying to patch a broken format and just ruining the next one.
Well, we went from Theros, a block where mono-color devotion matters, to Khans, a block where tri-color chaos matters. And in so doing, we lost Ravnica, a famously over-powered block, and got left with the relatively weak Theros to go with the slightly-less over-powered Khans. Of course everything's going to be shaken up. I haven't seen such an upheaval in a long time.
Yes, I think it's wide open in some ways, but not as open as it could be. Control and aggro are still struggling to keep up, while midrange is just trampling everybody. We don't have the tools to make anything like re-animator, burn, or discard. We lack a good board wipe or a good control finisher creature. Good removal at 2 CMC is just about absent.
On the other hand, if you look at the stats, Standard isn't wide open at all. Right now it's Siege Rhino + the same cards that were good in last year's midrange deck (Courser + Caryatid) without a lot of answers to them. Between Abzan midrange and Jeskai combo / tempo, that's 60% of the meta! If this keeps up, this won't be a healthy Standard at all.
One place I look forward to is UW, and even mono-white. White has all the good removal and all the good answers, and nobody's looking there. The problem is aside from Wingmate Roc, it doesn't have a thuddy finisher, and Roc demands support from other creatures to do its thing. As for blue, it has Singing Bell Strike. Between Strike and white's Suspension Field, UW has 8 2-drop removals plus Banishing Light and a Nyx-Fleece Ram to hold everything off.
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Looks to me like PenguinPete is more right than Shodai, although not completely right.
There are clearly more going on than just Rhino decks, but midrange _is_ dominating waaay too much, with aggro barely holding on, and control is almost completely missing, based on Shodai's chart. Tempo is making a showing with 'Jeskai Wins' from the looks of it, which is good, as Tempo has had a tough time in Standard for a long time. The fact we have top 8 viable combo lists is nice, what with Sidisi-Whip, and I suspect in that 'other' category we have the standard version of Jeskai Ascendancy combo (likely along with what is left of control and a bunch of other decks).
A bunch of different midrange decks fighting for supremacy is not 'diverse', it means control is crippled. On the other hand, the mere existence of viable combo and tempo in Standard almost makes up for it, because they haven't been much of a thing for so long.
Mono red aggro storms into the top 8 of a 1500+ player GP in LA and aggro is no good.
That's wrong. Do you know how many wins you need in a GP that large? That's not luck getting you there.
Control always takes time. The right answers and the right colors need to be found. Abzan midrange and Jeskai wins can play like control decks boarding into counterspells or board wipes such as End Hostilities and Duneblast.
Most of the decks are actually geared towards speed. There's so many good 3-4 drop threats in the format that many different color combinations are viable.
Seems to me we have sour control players commenting in this thread because End Hostilities is too slow and they don't know how to play the game using 1 for 1 removal.
Right now what is good is the in archetype variety that was completely missing from last standard. So even with limited archetypes we have wild variations in the cards being played in those colour combo's and strategies.
Jeskai... is not 1 deck its 5 different decks... Abzan is 3 then there is the aggro version as well which is its own archetypes... there are 4 UB control decks (Sphinx, Vault, Ashiok, Esper).
In theory control decks crush midrange so to have a mid range format and control not working says something... atm I think it is mostly the versatility of jeskai that is getting to control (although abzan aggro is a pain also).
maybe it will just take a bit more time... maybe it wont be until another set is released.
BTW, everybody, I'm quoting my stats from MTGTop8 set to 'Standard' and 'last 2 weeks.' Currently it shows Abzan Midrange at 37% and rising, Jeskai Tempo at 21% and steady, and everything else in single digits. So about 60% between those 2 decks. Seems close enough for a ballpark. Metamox also reports Abzan and Jeskai in the top 2, with a different breakdown for the rest.
Standard's a moving target now anyway.
Where does everybody else get their stats?
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I think midrange will completely take over in the next couple weeks right now people are still brewing. Eventually the midrange decks will balance there SB's out and when they do aggro won't have a chance.
It is. At my FNM, I've never seen such a diverse metagame. Sure, Abzan Midrange is the largest share, but I think that's just because its power is obvious and it was big at the Pro Tour. I think the format is very much in flux, as evidenced by new decks still popping up and winning tournaments.
I love it. I've played Standard FNM for two weeks running, after a hiatus of over a year.
It doesn't matter what decks are being played. It matters which decks are rising to the top and then winning elimination rounds.
Abzan has won the pro tour and nothing else. Jeskai has been tweaked for more creatures to overload removal packages and better control spells in the sideboard.
Abzan midrange is just a good stuff deck with a big removal package. I think it has been found out in it's current form and will probably morph into more of a control style deck trying to get value from board wipes.
That card isn't EVEN limited fodder. I mean of course you wanna play it because of the nickname Durdle Turtle, but let's get real here guys. That card is stanky jank.
End Hostilities doesn't have the Can't be regenerated wording can this be exploded for Abzan .
There just isn't that much regeneration in Standard at the moment. You could run something like the Rakshasa two-drop, but if you're paying 2 mana to regenerate it and 5 for End Hostilities, why not just cast Duneblast instead?
That card isn't EVEN limited fodder. I mean of course you wanna play it because of the nickname Durdle Turtle, but let's get real here guys. That card is stanky jank.
I agree. I never meant to imply the card is anywhere near good, I just wish the card costed less. I can't fathom why it isn't 2GG or better costed. Seems a no-brainer to me. On the topic, Boon of Erebos needed to not have the 2 life penalty either.
Actually screw it, Meandering Towershell should have been;
UBG
Shroud
Whenever Meandering Towershell attacks, exile it. Return it to the battlefield under your control tapped and attacking at the beginning of the declare attackers step on your next turn.
4/7
3-mana shroud 4/7? what have you guys been smoking? this card would be insurmountable for any aggressive deck
Yeah yeah I immediately regretted typing that as soon as I hit post reply. I just like the turtle ok? I swear if I'm ever offered to do design or development I'll turn down WOTC, you guys don't have to worry.
3-mana shroud 4/7? what have you guys been smoking? this card would be insurmountable for any aggressive deck
Yeah yeah I immediately regretted typing that as soon as I hit post reply. I just like the turtle ok? I swear if I'm ever offered to do design or development I'll turn down WOTC, you guys don't have to worry.
I think the turtle is a great design. I imagine it wasn't designed for constructed to begin with, though. In limited he's superb and that's cool
Looking at today's top 16, and last week's as well, it appears to be about as wide open as it ever could be. Five different decks in the top 8, ten different decks in the top 16, a new combo deck popped up and swept (Based on a previous concept, but the deck itself is almost unrecognizably different), and good results from multiple takes on multiple archetypes. It's a very good change of pace, really. This is in no small part to there being no utterly cards that win the game on their own in the format, as Patrick Sullivan pointed out (Pack Rat, Sphinx's Rev, and Thassa were his main offenders). Plenty of great cards to be certain, but there isn't anything that just runs away on its own. The format really demands tight play and good decisions through-out the game, as you can't just rely on your deck's best card to carry you.
And frankly, I don't think we've even begun to really crack the format. There are quite a few very good cards out there that just need to be figured out. Early on was a midrange fest, but that's started to give way heavily as people figure out what they can do. It was just easy early on to build good-stuff decks. I'm looking forward to the format as it matures.
Perhaps some people like having the overpowered synergies but I think not having those sets of cards that work so well together means that many different weaker synergies become viable rather than just the few that are really powerful to the point where they will always beat everything else.
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New decks just keep popping up all the time.
Jeskai wins, Abzan midrange/aggro, Temur monsters/aggro, Mardu, Mono red/Boss sligh, Ascendency Combo, UB control, Esper control, Sidisi Whip, GR monsters, RW tokens and now a UW control deck has made top 8 at SCG Minneapolis.
Can you just play anything and do well?
It's such a change from last season where only 3 decks were really viable with a couple of decks sometimes doing well depending on the metagame.
Has wizards finally fixed standard?
I think they knew how badly they botched it by trying to patch a broken format and just ruining the next one.
https://twitter.com/mtgaaron/status/520726041011044352
Yes, I think it's wide open in some ways, but not as open as it could be. Control and aggro are still struggling to keep up, while midrange is just trampling everybody. We don't have the tools to make anything like re-animator, burn, or discard. We lack a good board wipe or a good control finisher creature. Good removal at 2 CMC is just about absent.
On the other hand, if you look at the stats, Standard isn't wide open at all. Right now it's Siege Rhino + the same cards that were good in last year's midrange deck (Courser + Caryatid) without a lot of answers to them. Between Abzan midrange and Jeskai combo / tempo, that's 60% of the meta! If this keeps up, this won't be a healthy Standard at all.
One place I look forward to is UW, and even mono-white. White has all the good removal and all the good answers, and nobody's looking there. The problem is aside from Wingmate Roc, it doesn't have a thuddy finisher, and Roc demands support from other creatures to do its thing. As for blue, it has Singing Bell Strike. Between Strike and white's Suspension Field, UW has 8 2-drop removals plus Banishing Light and a Nyx-Fleece Ram to hold everything off.
There are clearly more going on than just Rhino decks, but midrange _is_ dominating waaay too much, with aggro barely holding on, and control is almost completely missing, based on Shodai's chart. Tempo is making a showing with 'Jeskai Wins' from the looks of it, which is good, as Tempo has had a tough time in Standard for a long time. The fact we have top 8 viable combo lists is nice, what with Sidisi-Whip, and I suspect in that 'other' category we have the standard version of Jeskai Ascendancy combo (likely along with what is left of control and a bunch of other decks).
A bunch of different midrange decks fighting for supremacy is not 'diverse', it means control is crippled. On the other hand, the mere existence of viable combo and tempo in Standard almost makes up for it, because they haven't been much of a thing for so long.
That's wrong. Do you know how many wins you need in a GP that large? That's not luck getting you there.
Control always takes time. The right answers and the right colors need to be found. Abzan midrange and Jeskai wins can play like control decks boarding into counterspells or board wipes such as End Hostilities and Duneblast.
Most of the decks are actually geared towards speed. There's so many good 3-4 drop threats in the format that many different color combinations are viable.
Seems to me we have sour control players commenting in this thread because End Hostilities is too slow and they don't know how to play the game using 1 for 1 removal.
Jeskai... is not 1 deck its 5 different decks... Abzan is 3 then there is the aggro version as well which is its own archetypes... there are 4 UB control decks (Sphinx, Vault, Ashiok, Esper).
In theory control decks crush midrange so to have a mid range format and control not working says something... atm I think it is mostly the versatility of jeskai that is getting to control (although abzan aggro is a pain also).
maybe it will just take a bit more time... maybe it wont be until another set is released.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
BTW, everybody, I'm quoting my stats from MTGTop8 set to 'Standard' and 'last 2 weeks.' Currently it shows Abzan Midrange at 37% and rising, Jeskai Tempo at 21% and steady, and everything else in single digits. So about 60% between those 2 decks. Seems close enough for a ballpark. Metamox also reports Abzan and Jeskai in the top 2, with a different breakdown for the rest.
Standard's a moving target now anyway.
Where does everybody else get their stats?
I love it. I've played Standard FNM for two weeks running, after a hiatus of over a year.
Modern: GW Hatebears/midrange, WGU Knightfall/evolution midrange stuff
Standard: nope
Legacy: W Death & Taxes
EDH (not Commander!): W Avacyn, Angel of Hope, GR Ruric Thar, the Unbowed, WGB Anafenza, the Foremost, WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator
It doesn't matter what decks are being played. It matters which decks are rising to the top and then winning elimination rounds.
Abzan has won the pro tour and nothing else. Jeskai has been tweaked for more creatures to overload removal packages and better control spells in the sideboard.
Watch the Zatlkaj vs Rodrigues match where Jeskai overloads the removal with Goblin Rabblemaster on top of Brimaz, King of Oreskos and is able to remove blockers with a Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker tick down and Suspension Field. He watered down his burn plan to play more creature threats and it was exactly what the doctor ordered, winning through Thoughtseize, Abzan Charm and Hero's Downfall on the play in game 1.
Abzan midrange is just a good stuff deck with a big removal package. I think it has been found out in it's current form and will probably morph into more of a control style deck trying to get value from board wipes.
How many green decks don't play their five drop on turn 4? I pretty much assume that any green card with 4+CMC is coming out a turn early.
meandering towershell? MEANDERING TOWERSHELL?!?!?!
Have you guys LOST your MINDS?
That card isn't EVEN limited fodder. I mean of course you wanna play it because of the nickname Durdle Turtle, but let's get real here guys. That card is stanky jank.
yes you can play many different decks
There just isn't that much regeneration in Standard at the moment. You could run something like the Rakshasa two-drop, but if you're paying 2 mana to regenerate it and 5 for End Hostilities, why not just cast Duneblast instead?
I agree. I never meant to imply the card is anywhere near good, I just wish the card costed less. I can't fathom why it isn't 2GG or better costed. Seems a no-brainer to me. On the topic, Boon of Erebos needed to not have the 2 life penalty either.
Actually screw it, Meandering Towershell should have been;
UBG
Shroud
Whenever Meandering Towershell attacks, exile it. Return it to the battlefield under your control tapped and attacking at the beginning of the declare attackers step on your next turn.
4/7
Youtube Channel
Yeah yeah I immediately regretted typing that as soon as I hit post reply. I just like the turtle ok? I swear if I'm ever offered to do design or development I'll turn down WOTC, you guys don't have to worry.
I think the turtle is a great design. I imagine it wasn't designed for constructed to begin with, though. In limited he's superb and that's cool
Youtube Channel
And frankly, I don't think we've even begun to really crack the format. There are quite a few very good cards out there that just need to be figured out. Early on was a midrange fest, but that's started to give way heavily as people figure out what they can do. It was just easy early on to build good-stuff decks. I'm looking forward to the format as it matures.
Compare it to now and what have you got?
Perhaps some people like having the overpowered synergies but I think not having those sets of cards that work so well together means that many different weaker synergies become viable rather than just the few that are really powerful to the point where they will always beat everything else.