It seems like there are many out there that simply can't accept what is happening.
"Oh wait for M15, they'll be something"
"Surely it will be in Karns, it's always there"
It seems to me like there are some that just aren't going to admit what is happening until it actually happens.
There will be no 4 mana board wipe. Lets just accept that as a fact as a thought experiment here.
So what happens?
Does it advantage aggro? Does it advantage midrange?
Aggro decks can go full steam but what if they run into walls and life gain such as Nyx-Fleece Ram and Wall of Essence?
Will the midrange decks that can stabilize after the early assault be good? Will it mean that more bigger bomb spells will become viable? Things like the soul/avatar cycle for instance. Will it mean that control decks will need to try to stall with Drown in Sorrow before hitting something like Perilous Vault or Fated Retribution?
Notoriously underplayed whelming wave says whats up. Also, Ætherspouts is an insane boardwipe. I'll take instant speed for 1 more mana any day. Control got new toys, it just shifted a bit.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Didn't people say this right before they printed Supreme Verdict 2 years ago? Fall sets always provide goodies to replace rotating things, they just don't want both of them in standard together.
Notoriously underplayed whelming wave says whats up. Also, Ætherspouts is an insane boardwipe. I'll take instant speed for 1 more mana any day. Control got new toys, it just shifted a bit.
Thanks for your response.
I believe that Aetherspouts might just become like Azorius Charm with people just looking to attack with one battleship like card such a monstrous Polukranos, World Eater.
Whelming Wave is interesting but the opponent still gets the cards back just at a big tempo loss. Still that tempo loss can allow Fated Retribution or even Extinguish All Hope to be cast.
In Garruk's Wake is probably is little outside what is possible in constructed.
Yeah, I remember a post where someone pointed out there has only been one period in recent standard history, where a 4cmc wrath was not available.
This is probably for the purposes of balancing standard, as letting control decks have access to another cheap wrath often overpowing control.
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Disclaimer: As per the norm, I am aware some people will disagree with my opinion and I acknowledge there is a possibility that my opinion is wrong. The above post is simply my musings on what I view to be the most likely scenario given the information that is available and I am aware of at the time of typing! Peace.
I believe that Aetherspouts might just become like Azorius Charm with people just looking to attack with one battleship like card such a monstrous Polukranos, World Eater.
This holds up until you realize that that kind of strategy of playing around it, makes the control player's spot removal hold SO much more value. Creature decks beat control decks by turning dudes sideways and control decks beat creature decks not turning dudes sideways, by making 1 for 1 value trades.
AEtherspouts rarely becomes an Azorious Charm for 3UU and if it is, the player had already lost the match or is getting max value out of the 3UU spent. The issue with the former is that spot removal generally prevents them from having to use AEthersputs anyways... which continues to let them threaten you with AEtherspouts
aetherspouts seems fine to me in the unlikely event that khans doesn't bring a new wrath. sure it's not as good as a 4 mana wrath, but it's not that much worse either. it also helps the tempo player that it is one sided.
People are underestimating AEtherspouts. Something akin to Plow Under and Stunted Growth being able to hit creatures is an incredibly sweeper ability. It won't make up for the need of an early sweep, but it's ability to not only remove aggressive creatures and completely mess with draws is underestimated. The card can also dictate the flow of combat far better than Supreme Verdict can.
I dislike a lot that the current sweeper requires blue to play it, but that said, I'm going to miss the uncounterability clause even more. Forcing blue devotion to give up permission entirely is sweet and now that it is very likely that we get a counterable sweeper, matches will be decided by whether they have the negate or not. I hope Khans doesn't give blue replacements for Frostburn Weird and Nightveil Specter because otherwise it could become another season of a Delver / Faeries deck terrorizing the format.
Having boardwipe be more expensive/conditional would be fine with me. The possibility of a more interesting board state and strategy for aggro than "hurl all your cheapest goblins at opponent, concede if turn 4 wrath" or for midrange than "pack deck with $200+ worth of planeswalkers" would be welcome. Would also force control players to work a little harder at deck construction and game play than they've had to with Verdict/Rev to lean on. The control players who have had smooth sailing with playsets of those 2 cards might not enjoy the change, but you can read near universal hate for Verdict/Rev elsewhere. Seeing boardwipe weakened some would definitely open up the metagame to more creative possibilities. Cheap boardwipe is a massive constraint that keeps a bunch of otherwise decent and fun cards/strategies from every seeing play.
This is great news. As a huge fan of Anger of the Gods and Bile Blight and other such super conditional spells with upsides, I'm really excited to see how things pan out in Khans. He even shouts out the degenerative effects of thoughtcheese, which is fantastic and shows that they're going in a much less hurr-durr direction in the future. It's a strange world we live in where the most brainless decks in standard are the control decks, but here we are...
Can't wait to see that trend end.
"One of the problems with a card like Thoughtseize is that, while it can keep the biggest shenanigans from making things go awry, it also punishes decks that just want to play fair—and decks that rely on synergy even harder."
I don't get why everyone complains about supreme verdict. It doesn't see a whole lot of play in Modern so maybe Wizards should look at those reasons and maybe instead of weakening standard, just print more powerful cards. Weakening standard does nothing for constructed play except make the format slower. *****ty cards with awful power are only good in limited and I personally dislike how Wizards has been moving towards printing cards that are good in limited environments only.
I am playing UWR control currently and have few fears about rotation. Anger of the Gods plus Aetherspouts plus Fated Retribution will do more than enough for me. That being said, I think Sultai is posed to the control deck post rotation. We don't /really/ need a Wrath right now, but I am excited to see some counter spells.
I like what they did with the removal and counterspells to make them conditional.. but what happens was that control just lent heavier on the wrath and universal answers in supreme verdict and detention sphere.
I am worried that it will make creatures the only way to play though.
I think that´s great news! i fully agree with the writer about the impact of four mana swipers. There has to be another way. Hopefully wizards will nail it.
He said in the future it's possible, there's nothing definitive in that article. I have to wonder if U/W control would have even been viable if it had to rely on something like planar cleansing instead of supreme verdict. I mean that tiny period where there was no 4 mana sweeper there was a single color, 5 mana ultra sweeper. If they print a 4 mana sweeper people will complain, if they print a 5 mana sweeper that gets around indestructible/regeneration/reanimation people will complain.
He said in the future it's possible, there's nothing definitive in that article. I have to wonder if U/W control would have even been viable if it had to rely on something like planar cleansing instead of supreme verdict. I mean that tiny period where there was no 4 mana sweeper there was a single color, 5 mana ultra sweeper. If they print a 4 mana sweeper people will complain, if they print a 5 mana sweeper that gets around indestructible/regeneration/reanimation people will complain.
He said in the future it's possible, there's nothing definitive in that article. I have to wonder if U/W control would have even been viable if it had to rely on something like planar cleansing instead of supreme verdict. I mean that tiny period where there was no 4 mana sweeper there was a single color, 5 mana ultra sweeper. If they print a 4 mana sweeper people will complain, if they print a 5 mana sweeper that gets around indestructible/regeneration/reanimation people will complain.
It probably wouldn't have been viable. The weaker the removal gets the more you need a board sweeper if playing a deck that doesn't simply make creature trades (trading creatures and trading a removal spell being virtually the same thing). This season the sweeper was absolutely required. Last year though the popular opinion among the pros was that UWR didn't need the sweeper, they would typically play two with players like Gerry Thompson advocating 0. Last season had very strong removal however, this season it's weaker and going by the article next season will be even weaker still.
Putting the best possible spin on this, it sounds to me that what they're wanting to do is make Standard more like Limited where removal still plays an important role but it's more about playing creatures of your own and killing one specific threat rather than making removal on it's own a strategy.
The problem with having to play more creatures is they are not equal. A two mana white creature is usually a 2/2, in green it's common to drop a 3/3 for the same cost. Removal is a must in keeping things balanced. I think one problem is what colors get mass removal to me it doesn't make sense for white to have mass removal when it's the color of small dudes, seems to me that white should have more spot removal or prison type cards and things like Story Circle.
The problem with having to play more creatures is they are not equal. A two mana white creature is usually a 2/2, in green it's common to drop a 3/3 for the same cost. Removal is a must in keeping things balanced. I think one problem is what colors get mass removal to me it doesn't make sense for white to have mass removal when it's the color of small dudes, seems to me that white should have more spot removal or prison type cards and things like Story Circle.
"Oh wait for M15, they'll be something"
"Surely it will be in Karns, it's always there"
It seems to me like there are some that just aren't going to admit what is happening until it actually happens.
There will be no 4 mana board wipe. Lets just accept that as a fact as a thought experiment here.
So what happens?
Does it advantage aggro? Does it advantage midrange?
Aggro decks can go full steam but what if they run into walls and life gain such as Nyx-Fleece Ram and Wall of Essence?
Will the midrange decks that can stabilize after the early assault be good? Will it mean that more bigger bomb spells will become viable? Things like the soul/avatar cycle for instance. Will it mean that control decks will need to try to stall with Drown in Sorrow before hitting something like Perilous Vault or Fated Retribution?
What are your thoughts standard players of MTGS?
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Thanks for your response.
I believe that Aetherspouts might just become like Azorius Charm with people just looking to attack with one battleship like card such a monstrous Polukranos, World Eater.
Whelming Wave is interesting but the opponent still gets the cards back just at a big tempo loss. Still that tempo loss can allow Fated Retribution or even Extinguish All Hope to be cast.
In Garruk's Wake is probably is little outside what is possible in constructed.
There is so much ridiculous unneeded speculation about the next standard format when we don't even know what ~200 of the cards in it are.
CMy Peasant CubeC
On Cubetutor
This is probably for the purposes of balancing standard, as letting control decks have access to another cheap wrath often overpowing control.
This. The last time I can remember having to actually play without a 4CC sweeper, it was between Wrath of God and Day of Judgement.
This holds up until you realize that that kind of strategy of playing around it, makes the control player's spot removal hold SO much more value. Creature decks beat control decks by turning dudes sideways and control decks beat creature decks not turning dudes sideways, by making 1 for 1 value trades.
AEtherspouts rarely becomes an Azorious Charm for 3UU and if it is, the player had already lost the match or is getting max value out of the 3UU spent. The issue with the former is that spot removal generally prevents them from having to use AEthersputs anyways... which continues to let them threaten you with AEtherspouts
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/ld/developing-annihilation-2014-08-15
This is great news. As a huge fan of Anger of the Gods and Bile Blight and other such super conditional spells with upsides, I'm really excited to see how things pan out in Khans. He even shouts out the degenerative effects of thoughtcheese, which is fantastic and shows that they're going in a much less hurr-durr direction in the future. It's a strange world we live in where the most brainless decks in standard are the control decks, but here we are...
Can't wait to see that trend end.
I am worried that it will make creatures the only way to play though.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
I think that´s great news! i fully agree with the writer about the impact of four mana swipers. There has to be another way. Hopefully wizards will nail it.
It probably wouldn't have been viable. The weaker the removal gets the more you need a board sweeper if playing a deck that doesn't simply make creature trades (trading creatures and trading a removal spell being virtually the same thing). This season the sweeper was absolutely required. Last year though the popular opinion among the pros was that UWR didn't need the sweeper, they would typically play two with players like Gerry Thompson advocating 0. Last season had very strong removal however, this season it's weaker and going by the article next season will be even weaker still.
Putting the best possible spin on this, it sounds to me that what they're wanting to do is make Standard more like Limited where removal still plays an important role but it's more about playing creatures of your own and killing one specific threat rather than making removal on it's own a strategy.
White has now a lot of spot removal;Devouring Light,Pillar of Light,Divine Verdict,and the list goes on...