Doesn't look unreasonable to me. Although I don't really like the Breaking//Entering. It suffers from the classic mill card problem : doesn't effect the board state. Doesn't do anything at all until it does everything. Would have to add at least 2-3 red sources so maybe I could eventually cast their best creature.
I swear people constantly lie about the prowess of their decks here. You would at least lose to mana trouble a couple times in the course of a month. There's no way this deck could beat a control deck. The vast majority of cards are worthless against it. You don't even have enough mill to deplete a deck here. How does this deck even win? Why aren't you playing Jace, Memory Adept?
In a control matchup I see you falling behind on lands with a handful of cards that have no use in the game, no planeswalker to pressure them, and a fat mind grind easily being countered, I mean it's a sorcery spell, you can't even cast it in response to them tapping out for revelation.
Honestly, I could see this being the best deck at some less-competitive FNM's. I assume the wincon is essentially to just Revelation/Elixir, draw your deck, gain tons of life and wait for your opponent to deck. The small mill actually has some function in this sense, because you'll keep recurring it with Elixir. Bear in mind that most FNM players aren't on control, and the typical Esper list is trying to win with Aetherling, which this deck has plenty of counters for.
I don't think this is an optimal list. It will get its teeth kicked in against hyper-fast aggro. Breaking/Entering isn't a great idea here aside from speeding up the clock in the control mirror. In a PTQ, I don't think this will do well. At FNM? Probably just fine as long as the pilot knows how to play it.
I don't see how this deck crushes FNM. How many matches have you actually played in the past month? Did you lose one match and drop? Can you show us your DCI report? Does your shop post FNM results? How many people at your FNM? I think you're lying about how this deck perfoms.
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Would Dark Confidant still be good if he punched you in the face for 5 damage a turn?
I don't see how this deck crushes FNM. How many matches have you actually played in the past month? Did you lose one match and drop? Can you show us your DCI report? Does your shop post FNM results? How many people at your FNM? I think you're lying about how this deck perfoms.
This deck isn't completely terrible (it's not optimal but has mostly quality cards and a coherent gameplan), and FNM's vary wildly in the quality of player. I've been to FNM's where you have half a dozen players who are capable of winning a PTQ or SCG Open, and I've been to FNM's where you get 8 players and half of them just learned to play. I've played against plenty of people at FNM who are just not capable of beating this type of control deck. Even against good players this deck would have a reasonable chance in the hands of a skilled pilot.
This is not very different from the Esper Control lists that are currently winning GP's and SCG events. Verdict, Revelation, Detention Sphere are all there, and plenty of instants. Really, the Breaking and Mind Grind are the only cards I find especially suspect here. Otherwise, it's not that bad.
I agree. FNM I play at is very diverse. The good players are playing good decks well. But the bottom of the pack are 11 year olds playing 100 card white weenie decks. This would go easily 2-2. But it only has to be a little better than it looks or get a little lucky to go 4-0. I think it's so mid-rangey than it would be pretty vulnerable to other real control decks or really really aggro decks. But against decks that just play one threat per turn, it looks like it has plenty of answers and a pretty simple to execute game plan.
Having said all that, here is what I'd change :
-4 Breaking
-1 Pilfered Plans
+4 Thoughtseize
+1 Any other wincon. (Aetherling, Elspeth, Big Jace, Ashiok .... doesn't really matter than much).
I actually like the one-of Mind Grind. Just cast Thoughtseize first to make sure the coast is clear.
I don't see how this deck crushes FNM. How many matches have you actually played in the past month? Did you lose one match and drop? Can you show us your DCI report? Does your shop post FNM results? How many people at your FNM? I think you're lying about how this deck perfoms.
This deck isn't completely terrible (it's not optimal but has mostly quality cards and a coherent gameplan), and FNM's vary wildly in the quality of player. I've been to FNM's where you have half a dozen players who are capable of winning a PTQ or SCG Open, and I've been to FNM's where you get 8 players and half of them just learned to play. I've played against plenty of people at FNM who are just not capable of beating this type of control deck. Even against good players this deck would have a reasonable chance in the hands of a skilled pilot.
This is not very different from the Esper Control lists that are currently winning GP's and SCG events. Verdict, Revelation, Detention Sphere are all there, and plenty of instants. Really, the Breaking and Mind Grind are the only cards I find especially suspect here. Otherwise, it's not that bad.
This deck has no game against aggro or control. No one is exaggerating here. The deck has no win con to speak of. The esper lists that even FNMs run will at least have card advantage through Jace. Heck he isn't even running Memory Adept which is one of the best cards for this deck. He has the core cards and then his other cards are all terribly weak in comparison.
Untuned esper mill missing a few key pieces and sporting some extra fat that doesn't belong. But let's try to think about what we're saying before making incorrect claims. Having fat and having not enough of this or that would be a correct statement. Having no game against aggro or control is an exaggeration. Subpar, on the other hand, I'd agree with to a fair degree.
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2 Elixir of Immortality
2 Essence Scatter
1 Devour Flesh
2 Bile Blight
1 Crypt Incursion
3 Psychic Strike
3 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Breaking
4 Dissolve
4 Pilfered Plans
4 Detention Sphere
4 Supreme Verdict
2 Temple of Enlightenment
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Watery Grave
4 Island
4 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Essence Scatter
1 Crypt Incursion
1 Debt to the Deathless
2 Dark Betrayal
2 Pithing Needle
2 Elixir of Immortality
2 Doom Blade
2 Negate
2 Sycopate
Sorry don't know how to put the deck in correctly
Thread moved to Standard Deck Creation. New decklists should go here. See Standard Forum Rules and Regulations.
Also, I've added deck tags to your post. Explanation of card/deck tags.
Thanks,
-rujasu
Whats the best matchup?
Wahts the worst?
In a control matchup I see you falling behind on lands with a handful of cards that have no use in the game, no planeswalker to pressure them, and a fat mind grind easily being countered, I mean it's a sorcery spell, you can't even cast it in response to them tapping out for revelation.
I don't think this is an optimal list. It will get its teeth kicked in against hyper-fast aggro. Breaking/Entering isn't a great idea here aside from speeding up the clock in the control mirror. In a PTQ, I don't think this will do well. At FNM? Probably just fine as long as the pilot knows how to play it.
This deck isn't completely terrible (it's not optimal but has mostly quality cards and a coherent gameplan), and FNM's vary wildly in the quality of player. I've been to FNM's where you have half a dozen players who are capable of winning a PTQ or SCG Open, and I've been to FNM's where you get 8 players and half of them just learned to play. I've played against plenty of people at FNM who are just not capable of beating this type of control deck. Even against good players this deck would have a reasonable chance in the hands of a skilled pilot.
This is not very different from the Esper Control lists that are currently winning GP's and SCG events. Verdict, Revelation, Detention Sphere are all there, and plenty of instants. Really, the Breaking and Mind Grind are the only cards I find especially suspect here. Otherwise, it's not that bad.
Having said all that, here is what I'd change :
-4 Breaking
-1 Pilfered Plans
+4 Thoughtseize
+1 Any other wincon. (Aetherling, Elspeth, Big Jace, Ashiok .... doesn't really matter than much).
I actually like the one-of Mind Grind. Just cast Thoughtseize first to make sure the coast is clear.
This deck has no game against aggro or control. No one is exaggerating here. The deck has no win con to speak of. The esper lists that even FNMs run will at least have card advantage through Jace. Heck he isn't even running Memory Adept which is one of the best cards for this deck. He has the core cards and then his other cards are all terribly weak in comparison.
There is card advantage: Sphinx's Revelation and Pilfered Plans.
There is game against aggro: Supreme Verdict, Crypt Incursion, various removal.
There is game against control: Dissolve, Psychic Strike, other counterspells, Elixir.
I already said that it's not a great deck and it's not what I'd play. However, many decks I saw when I played FNM's were worse than this.