The deck is primarily a control deck which uses a large amount of removal, combined with token producing planeswalkers as well as few but highly efficient creatures.
Why run it? The main reason to run this deck in my eyes, is the removal suite. The deck runs 4x each of Anger of the Gods, Chained to the Rocks, Selesnya Charm, and Mizzium Mortars. Between the 4 of those spells, it has cheap answers to almost all major threats in the current standard meta.
THE DECK
Click on the above links to see different versions.
I 3-1d a standard DE yesterday, with the above list. I beat Mono B devotion, Esper midrange, R aggro, and my loss was to Boros burn.
The deck is heavily favored vs. the #1 deck in the meta - Mono B. The matchup is incredibly favorable, especially after SB. The deck has solid matchups against most other decks in the meta as well, it does however, struggle vs. creature-light burn decks, which appear to be becoming more prevelant lately.
CARD CHOICES
The core of the deck is based around the following cards.
4x Loxodon Smiter - An uber efficent 3 drop, can't be countered, doesn't die to AOTG, solid stats.
Some mixture of Stormbreath/Polukranos - Both must answer creatures that often act as finishers. One of the above lists used Advent of the Wurm instead of Polukranos.
4x Chained to the Rocks - Only gets sided out vs. control. Answers nearly everything.
4x Mizzium Mortars - Only sided out vs. control again. Answers Blood Barons, Stormbreath, solid all-purpose removal.
4x Selesnya Charm - A great card in the meta, currently. I would consider dropping down to 2-3x MD depending on your meta. The decks it is phenomenal against are Mono B (DD), Monstrous Gruul (Polukranos, Colossus, lots of stuff) Esper midrange (Obzedat). It also exiles gods, and can be used as removal in the early game as a flash blocker for soldier of the pantheon or mutavault in a pinch.
4x Anger of the Gods - Sided out vs. Mono B. Every other matchup wants it. Having 4 in the MD allows you to just steal some G1s outright, especially against Esper mid, Boros, Mono U, and Gruul.
3x Xenagos - A really overlooked card, starting to pick up momentum though. He does exactly what this deck wants. Provides a token generating permanent with an option to ramp, which is used often in this build. The onyl matchup I side copies out is vs. Esper mid due to the fact that Soldier of the Pantheon and Lyev Skynights can take him out almost immediately with little resistance.
2x Elspeth - Solid finisher. Her -3 blows up all your creatures, so you usually don't use it too often in this build unless its desperate. She has solid synergy with Xenagos' +1 as well. I side her out vs, aggro, that's about it.
I like a singleton bounty as primarily a way to gain life mid-late game, its a bit win-more, but you can sometimes ramp into it which can lock up games quick.
Chandra is primarily card draw in grindy games, as that's one thing this deck does not have. She can also do some work with her +1 vs, Esper midrange creatures.
The keyrune is some extra ramp for our 5 and 6 drops, and also can provide a solid blocker for late game mutavaults, etc. The manabase can be admittedly clunky, so it helps. Other lists use 2x.
I've been very happy with Clan Defiance here. We can generate a lot of mana in this deck, and its a great finisher or the occasional 2 for 1 if the opportunity presents itself.
SIDEBOARDING
(these are generalizations, obviously builds vary within an archetype and you should SB accordingly)
Mono B: -4x Anger of the Gods, -2 Polukranos, +2 Assemble the Legion, +2 Destructive Revelry, +2 Last Breath.
Mono U - -2 Elspeth, -1 Chandra, -4 Selesnya Charm, +4 Mistcutter Hydra, +3 Last Breath
UW Control/Esper Control - -4 Mizzium mortars, -4 Chained, -4 Anger of the Gods, +2 Boros Reckoner, +3 Destructive Revelry, +1 Chandra, +2 Assemble the Legion, +4 Mistcutter Hydra. Keep mortars in if Esper uses Blood Barons as finishers.
Going forward I would make room for a couple of Warleader's Helixs in the 75, probably bumping 1x seles charm into the SB. The deck struggles vs. creature-light burn decks, and could use some lifegain badly. Another option is to possibly put Centaur Healers in the SB, instead of Reckoners.
Really like this deck, and am kicking myself I didn't load up on Zenagos, Stormbreath and a few Chandra/Chained or I would probably play this at the PTQ this weekend.
If I was playing Orzhov, I would side in extra removal against this deck. Mainly a rachet bomb, blades, merciless eviction and my own walkers. What are your outs to opposing walkers such as Jace, Elspeth and even Ajani?
Really like this deck, and am kicking myself I didn't load up on Zenagos, Stormbreath and a few Chandra/Chained or I would probably play this at the PTQ this weekend.
If I was playing Orzhov, I would side in extra removal against this deck. Mainly a rachet bomb, blades, merciless eviction and my own walkers. What are your outs to opposing walkers such as Jace, Elspeth and even Ajani?
If there's a weakness to this deck (other than burn) its opposing PWs. To tell you the truth, so far in testing, most of them you really don't even worry about. Jace is a minor annoyance (hydras usually take him out), as is Ajani (stormbreaths usually take him out), but Elspeth in other midrange decks can obviously be a problem if the game gets to that point.
This would be another good reason to have a couple of Helix's available somewhere in the 75 to do some direct damage if needed.
I def like the first list you linked, not so much the list you posted. It is more to the point, with 3 and 4of's as opposed to trying to be cute with things like the keyrune, clan defiance, and primeval bounty. The first list has a goal and jams in the cards it needs to get there, the second list just doesnt feel as tight.
This deck is just a slight tweak to that one Brad Nelson Naya deck that won a GP (maybe it was a SCG Open). It kind of came out of no where, but was effective against the meta. Might be the time is right for that again?
EDIT: Here is the Brad Nelsom list from the end of October
Guess you also have Defiance, and if they really become a problem you can use the new 5 mana walker stopper from BNG.
I guess my other question is if you know, vs most of the aggro metagame is anger really solid? is it working where say, Drown in Sorrow would fail?
I don't know if I would want to run anything with a 3 color requirement in this deck at all, 2 mana is hard enough, and the deck is skewed toward hitting a turn 3 AOTG more consistently.
Anger exiles, which is the biggest thing going for it. Against GW decks running VoR and the Xathrid Esper deck, its absolutely phenomenal. It also hits Sylvan caryatid, Reckoner, Fleecemane, etc. Ever since Anger of the Gods was spoiled, I assumed it would warp standard away from aggro. It hasn't done that at all, because its used mainly as a SB card rather than a MD sweeper. If more decks ran Anger MD, you would see this meta shift in a hurry. R/W devotion, G/R and that Esper deck wouldn't even be viable anymore, and Mono U would be fringe.
Anyway, that being said, I think drown in sorrow is a sweet card, but the place for it is in Jund. Right now, Jund midrange (which is fringe right now, admittedly) uses AOTG, but it has horrible synergy with Oooze, Caryatid, and even Reaper. Drown in Sorrow hits almost everything Jund wants to hit, doesn't kill their ramp sources, and doesn't exile GY food for the ooze.
I def like the first list you linked, not so much the list you posted. It is more to the point, with 3 and 4of's as opposed to trying to be cute with things like the keyrune, clan defiance, and primeval bounty. The first list has a goal and jams in the cards it needs to get there, the second list just doesnt feel as tight.
This deck is just a slight tweak to that one Brad Nelson Naya deck that won a GP (maybe it was a SCG Open). It kind of came out of no where, but was effective against the meta. Might be the time is right for that again?
EDIT: Here is the Brad Nelsom list from the end of October
This would pop up in DEs a while ago, but if I recall it was way more dependent on Assemble the Legion as its win con, and enchantment removal tended to wreck it.
I tested the first two lists, what they both lacked is late game inevitability that dodges removal, some way to gain life in grindy matchups, and something to do with all the mana you tend to build up. Hence the Bounty and the Defiance. I'm happy with both slots at the moment, but willing to tweak it.
Unless you can stick a Legion, black still wrecks this deck. Here is what my graveyard looked like after a game with black and then i'll post his graveyard, i.e. how he dealt with all my stuff.
My Graveyard: Xenogas, Xenogas, Chandra, Stormbreath, Elspeth
His Graveyard: Thoughtseize, Thoughtseize, Heros Downfall, Devour Flesh, Heroes Downfall
thats a total of 23 mana in my graveyard that he dealt with easily with 10 mana. He proceeded to play a couple Underworlds and then the game was over as he drew 3 cards per turn.
Unless you can stick a Legion, black still wrecks this deck. Here is what my graveyard looked like after a game with black and then i'll post his graveyard, i.e. how he dealt with all my stuff.
My Graveyard: Xenogas, Xenogas, Chandra, Stormbreath, Elspeth
His Graveyard: Thoughtseize, Thoughtseize, Heros Downfall, Devour Flesh, Heroes Downfall
thats a total of 23 mana in my graveyard that he dealt with easily with 10 mana. He proceeded to play a couple Underworlds and then the game was over as he drew 3 cards per turn.
Thats some crap luck for you that he has (if its a stock list) 8 total outs to PWs in his deck, 4 of which have to be cast with the PW still in your hand, and he drew half of them to begin the game, then immediately stuck 2 CA engines on top of that. You know the odds of that happening are rough, right? Not unheard of, but not likely.
I'm 5-0 vs. Mono B in DEs with this list so far, and I think its the deck's best matchup and one of the main arguments for running this list. Not sure what the problem is, they're threat density is fairly low and you can answer everything with either mortars/chained/selesnya charm. After G1 I side out Angers for some mix of Last Breath Destructive Revelry and Assemble the Legion. Rarely goes to G3.
There have been three or four Naya Control/Planeswalkers/Superfriends posts in Standard Deck Creation over the last week, so I think this thread could use a bump. Seems like there's interest. Anyway, here's my Game Day report (copy/pasted from one of said threads in SDC). Took 3rd with Naya Control, losing to Jund Walkers in the semis. Here's the list I ran:
Game 1, I started out slow (as is the MO of the deck), but Anger followed by Anger combined with Max mana screwed left me plenty of time to come out on top. Ajani did work, finding Chains to KO a Master of Waves, and then digging out an Elspeth to get the show on the road.
SB-out: Loxodon Smiter x 4; Warleader's Helix x 2; Nissa, Worldwaker x 1
SB-in: Mistcutter Hydra x 4; Banishing Light x 3
Game 2, I mulled to six (five-lander!), but had three scrylands in my opener which found me my removal. Max got Thassa online which met a Selesnya Charm, I fell to 13 before Anger took care of an unfortunate over-extension. I decided to race with double Mistcutters on 5 which took me the rest of the way.
I think the game was decided when I got greedy, playing a Courser on turn 3 hoping for some lifegain/lands instead of Angering away a solo Nightveil Specter. Instead of a land, Courser reveals a Banishing Light. Lovely. I knew whatever was revealed would get gobbled up by the Specter, but I didn't want to 1-for-1 with the Anger. Nightveil connects and takes the Banishing Light, but instead of taking out my Courser (Max had plenty of white mana), he instead played another Neightveil Specter. They were eaten by the Anger, and the Mistcutters followed shortly afterwards.
2-0 games, 1-0 matches.
Round 2 against David playing BG Corpsejack counters.
Game 1, David was largely color screwed, only hitting his forests, and eventually once he hit black mana it was his scrylands. Nissa and 4/4 trample creatures went tape-to-tape, with some removal getting blockers out of the way for full damage.
SB-out: Nissa, Worldwaker x 2; Warleader's Helix x 1; Ajani, Mentor of Heroes x 1 (?: this might have been a Chandra instead)
SB-in: Elspeth, Sun's Champion x 1; Assemble the Legion x 3
Game 2, despite the Corpsejack Menaces and Dreg Manglers, I thought I was going against Bg Devotion. This was a very, very tight game. I fell to 6 before managing to close it out. Timely removal on a seemingly never-ending supply of Dreg Manglers and Corpsejack Menaces allowed Assemble the Legion and Xenagos to do god's work. David never found his Golgari Charms.
BG is not a color combination that this deck matches up well against. Everything Naya Control throws at it go right into it's wheelhouse. While this wasn't the dreaded Bg Devotion deck, these games were still very tight. One well-timed Golgari Charm, or Abrupt Decay on a Chained to the Rocks and things could have ended differently.
4-0 games, 2-0 matches.
Round 3 against Sam playing Rw Burn.
Game 1, total blow out haha. I kept a slow hand and had no answers for Chandra's Phoenixes and tons of burn. Sam hit three lands (one Mutavault) and had a full grip all game. I had no shot. Looking back, he finished game 1 at 9 life, which was due to his Battlefield Forge pinging him over and over!
SB-out: Elspeth, Sun's Champion x 1; Selesnya Charm x 4
SB-in: Banishing Light x 3; Ruric Thar, the Unbowed x 2
Game 2, Sam flooded out, I got a bunch of life off an unmolested Courser, and Ajani found Ruric for the concession.
Game 3, another total blow out. I notice that in my notes, I didn't even keep track of life totals. I went from 20 to 0 in four turns.
Naya Control has an issue with Burn. It is precisely this reason that I need to fit at least one more Warleader's Helix, if not two. I'm unsure of the cuts, however. The original Yanyuk list ran four Centaur Healer in the SB specifically because Burn is such a popular deck. I like the idea, but don't know under what other matches I'd ever run them in, which keeps me from considering them that heavily. Plus, what do I cut from the board?
5-2 games, 2-1 matches.
Round 4 against Steven planing Mono-R Rabblemaster.
Game 1, Steven got me down to 8 before double Coursers pulled me back from the brink. Anger of the Gods cleared the way for what eventually were three 4/4 trample lands courtesy of Nissa.
SB-out: Xenagos, the Reveler x 2; Selesnya Charm x1
SB-in: Banishing Light x 3
Game 2, I admit, I did not take this deck seriously. I misplayed my land drop on turn 2, playing a second Temple of Plenty instead of a Temple of Abandon, and as such I didn't have double red on turn 3 to Anger away a soon to be lethal goblin army. Instead, I played a Courser, which was immediately Mortared, and the ensuing alpha got me low enough where I couldn't recover, despite getting the Anger off on turn 4. Steven's burn finished me off.
Game 3, I ran it back and made no SB changes. Serious-face time, I took Steven's threats much less lightly, using Chains on such powerhouse cards like Goblin Kaboomist and Foundry Street Denizen, haha. The targeted removal was enough to force an over-extension that was met with an Anger. Again, Nissa and 4/4 trample lands went the distance.
I now firmly believe that Rabblemaster Red is going to be a force post-rotation. There is almost no way it can't be. Anger of the Gods is a stone-cold must against really fast aggro decks, and I hope there's some kind of red sweeper that can replace Mizzium Mortars in Khans.
7-3 games, 3-1 matches.
Cut to Top-4 (It was the morning event which is usually smaller. We had 13 people iirc)
Semi-finals against Alan playing Jund Walkers.
Game 1, I mulled to five, but Alan was stuck on only two lands. It was not an engaging match in the least. I think I just ran him over with Loxodon Smiters.
SB-out: Chain to the Rocks x 4; Warleader's Helix x 2
SB-in: Banishing Light x 3; Ruric Thar, the Unbowed x 2; Elspeth, Sun's Champion x 1
Game 2 was the opposite of Game 1. I was stuck on "only" four lands, but it wasn't enough to get multiple threats or any pressure on Alan. I was eventually done in by Garruk, Apex Predator. At last count, before a lethal attack, I was at 3 and Alan was at 30 haha!
SB-out: Selesnya Charm x 4; Chandra, Pyromaster x 2
SB-in: Chained to the Rocks x 4; Warleader's Helix x 2
Game 3, I realized I sided wrong and needed the extra removal. This game was an excruciatingly close, back and forth affair. I believe I punted when Alan had six total mana available (four lands, an Elvish Mystic and a Sylvan Caryatid). I think I should have Chained the mana dork, as if he had a land drop, he would have the mana to cast big Garruk. Instead, I opted to wait until I had six mana for a Ruric Thar, followed by an overloaded Mizzium Mortars. Alan had the land, played the Garruk, blew up my Smiter and passed. I played Ruric and passed, knowing Garruk was only on 2 loyalty, and the Mortars would take out the beast token along with the other creatures (and yes, taking six damage courtesy of my newly-minted Ruric Thar).
Alan managed to topdeck mana dork blockers to keep Ruric at bay, followed by a Vraska to take him out. I had a Banishing Light for the Vraska, but a Rakdos' Return for 5 meant we were both top-decking. It was a little ridiculous haha. He would top-deck a creature or threat, and it would meet my top-deck removal. I got Alan down to 2, with me at 7. He top-decks a Stormbreath Dragon putting me to 3, and I need to answer with either a Warleader's Helix for the win or a Mizzium Mortars to at least prolong the game. I reveal the top of my library, and it's a Stomping Grounds. GG, Alan (no pun intended, Alan was a very sweet guy. Happy to lose to him. He eventually took the Game Day Championship playmat against Sam).
In hindsight, I had no idea why I didn't side in the Pithing Needles against a deck that runs something like eight or 10 planeswalkers! You'd think that would have been a good idea haha! Also in hindsight, finding room for at least one more Warleader's Helix or some kind of legit life gain is important for this deck going forward. I'm also surprised that in all my games, Chandra was a non-factor. She zeroed me some cards in I think the first game against Alan, but he was mana screwed so it was largely symbolic. Even against the aggro decks, I didn't really see many X/1s I wanted to use her +1 on, preferring to get more value via a sweeper.
Post-rotation, I don't think the deck can stay as-is. Losing the shocklands is just too much, as despite having the painlands, they aren't mountains that are necessary for Chained to the Rocks. An option is to lean much more heavily on RW, with a G splash, but said splash would be for double-green Coursers and Nissa? It's a stretch. Maybe RG, splashing W... although really the big prize of going W over B is Elspeth, which is another stretch for a splash color. We have to hope Khans has a decent sweeper in R to replace Mizzium Mortars, and something like Path to Exile to replace the Chains haha.
Since this report, I have gone -1 Selesnya Charm, +1 Warleader's Helix in the main. The SB may need a bit of an overhaul; it's a dog to RW Burn, and WU Control requires a ton of work to get wins. But the SB strats for those match-ups are so different, I don't think it's worth watering down both solutions just to fit within the 15-card limit. It obviously depends on the meta, but I'm leaning towards the hedge against RW Burn. Something like +4 Centaur Healers, +2 Last Breath; -1 Elspeth, -2 Pithing Needles, -1 Mistcutter, -1 Assemble, -1 Banishing Light. Also, Warden of the Beyond could be a replacement for Loxodon Smiters. So much of the removal exiles. Worth testing when Khans rotates in.
I went 4-1 against the different "monoblack" versions (B/W, monoblack devo, B/G, ...), 3-0 against selesnya aggro but sadly went 0-2 against burn (my sideboard card were hiding themselves on the bottom of my deck), I'll play it again in the WMCQ with a little more hate against burn and rabblemaster, going back to 3 warleader's helix maindeck and putting a 4nd Nyx and archangel of thune in my sideboard.
I like this list a lot actually and might throw it together as well, which cards will you be taking out of the sideboard?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks to SGT_Chubbz of Kracked Graphics for the Sig and Avvie.
Currently Playing Standard/Modern: Devoted to Monsters
Almost every aggro matchup instantly folds to Anger of the Gods, mono-U no exception. It's why the original, post-rotation (Innistrad) list ran it as a 4-of. I mean, the Yanyuk list was basically designed to KO mono-U, mono-B, and have some game against UW control. Things have changed a bit since then, but I haven't really seen any dangerous evolution of the mono-U lists. (Mono-B splashing G for Golgari Charm and Abrupt Decay I think is what forced this archetype to the benches.)
But the core of the deck, I believe, is its removal package of Chained to the Rocks, Selesnya Charm, Mizzium Mortars and Anger of the Gods, all usually as 4-ofs. It makes the deck a handful, as it's just loaded with answers and a critical mass of planeswalkers. That's been my experience anyway.
I like the idea of Boros Charm in the SB, as it helps keep the deck's assets safe, and in a pinch can take a bite out of opposing planeswalkers, if not destroy them. Also, added reach if games get close.
No Caryatid/Courser: Besides making for horrible topdecks, honestly you don't need this engine. Half the time you are waiting until turns 3-5 to wrath the board anyways and you want to hit the creatures your opponents play then, not before, with board wipes. Also, not relying on this engine makes us harder to disrupt.
Hornet Nest is the real deal. I can't stress enough how awesome this card is in this shell. Turns one blockers into 2-4, makes combat a nightmare for most opponents, stormbreath and polukranos hate him. Also I have Lightning Strike'd him to block and kill opponent's boards as well as targeted myself with Chandra's +1 (First time for everything) to clog the skies with 1/1 deathtouchers.
I have tested against Jund Walkers, Mardu Tokens, and Rabble Red. the win % I have deduced are 80%, 85%, 60%, respectively, for pre-boarded games.
I need testing against both Temur midrange/monsters and Temur control (as I believe they will be prominent) as well as Bx removal heavy decks. Thoughtsieze/Downfall/Utter End may be enough to stop us and after boards, despise becomes a reality.
Thoughts? I am really looking for feedback here as I can't find a reason NOT to play this deck come rotation.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
This deck has popped up and begun putting up decent results on MTGO lately: http://www.mtgo-stats.com/decks/91045, http://www.mtgo-stats.com/decks/91183.
The deck is primarily a control deck which uses a large amount of removal, combined with token producing planeswalkers as well as few but highly efficient creatures.
Why run it? The main reason to run this deck in my eyes, is the removal suite. The deck runs 4x each of Anger of the Gods, Chained to the Rocks, Selesnya Charm, and Mizzium Mortars. Between the 4 of those spells, it has cheap answers to almost all major threats in the current standard meta.
THE DECK
Click on the above links to see different versions.
The deck I currently run is as follows:
2x Polukranos, World Eater
3x Stormbreath Dragon
4x Anger of the Gods
4x Selesnya Charm
4x Chained to the Rocks
4x Mizzium Mortars
1x Clan Defiance
3x Xenagos, the Reveler
2x Elspeth, Suns Champion
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
1x Selesnya Keyrune
1x Primeval Bounty
4x Stomping Ground
4x Sacred Foundry
4x Temple of Abandon
4x Temple of Triumph
4x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Forest
2x Boros Reckoner
3x Destructive Revelry
3x Last Breath
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
2x Assemble the Legion
I 3-1d a standard DE yesterday, with the above list. I beat Mono B devotion, Esper midrange, R aggro, and my loss was to Boros burn.
The deck is heavily favored vs. the #1 deck in the meta - Mono B. The matchup is incredibly favorable, especially after SB. The deck has solid matchups against most other decks in the meta as well, it does however, struggle vs. creature-light burn decks, which appear to be becoming more prevelant lately.
CARD CHOICES
The core of the deck is based around the following cards.
4x Loxodon Smiter - An uber efficent 3 drop, can't be countered, doesn't die to AOTG, solid stats.
Some mixture of Stormbreath/Polukranos - Both must answer creatures that often act as finishers. One of the above lists used Advent of the Wurm instead of Polukranos.
4x Chained to the Rocks - Only gets sided out vs. control. Answers nearly everything.
4x Mizzium Mortars - Only sided out vs. control again. Answers Blood Barons, Stormbreath, solid all-purpose removal.
4x Selesnya Charm - A great card in the meta, currently. I would consider dropping down to 2-3x MD depending on your meta. The decks it is phenomenal against are Mono B (DD), Monstrous Gruul (Polukranos, Colossus, lots of stuff) Esper midrange (Obzedat). It also exiles gods, and can be used as removal in the early game as a flash blocker for soldier of the pantheon or mutavault in a pinch.
4x Anger of the Gods - Sided out vs. Mono B. Every other matchup wants it. Having 4 in the MD allows you to just steal some G1s outright, especially against Esper mid, Boros, Mono U, and Gruul.
3x Xenagos - A really overlooked card, starting to pick up momentum though. He does exactly what this deck wants. Provides a token generating permanent with an option to ramp, which is used often in this build. The onyl matchup I side copies out is vs. Esper mid due to the fact that Soldier of the Pantheon and Lyev Skynights can take him out almost immediately with little resistance.
2x Elspeth - Solid finisher. Her -3 blows up all your creatures, so you usually don't use it too often in this build unless its desperate. She has solid synergy with Xenagos' +1 as well. I side her out vs, aggro, that's about it.
Swing slots:
Primeval Bounty, Chandra, Pyromaster, Keyrunes, Clan Defiance.
You can tailor the last 4 slots as you see fit.
I like a singleton bounty as primarily a way to gain life mid-late game, its a bit win-more, but you can sometimes ramp into it which can lock up games quick.
Chandra is primarily card draw in grindy games, as that's one thing this deck does not have. She can also do some work with her +1 vs, Esper midrange creatures.
The keyrune is some extra ramp for our 5 and 6 drops, and also can provide a solid blocker for late game mutavaults, etc. The manabase can be admittedly clunky, so it helps. Other lists use 2x.
I've been very happy with Clan Defiance here. We can generate a lot of mana in this deck, and its a great finisher or the occasional 2 for 1 if the opportunity presents itself.
SIDEBOARDING
(these are generalizations, obviously builds vary within an archetype and you should SB accordingly)
Mono B: -4x Anger of the Gods, -2 Polukranos, +2 Assemble the Legion, +2 Destructive Revelry, +2 Last Breath.
Mono U - -2 Elspeth, -1 Chandra, -4 Selesnya Charm, +4 Mistcutter Hydra, +3 Last Breath
RW Devotion - -4 Selesnya Charm, -1 Elspeth, +3 Last Breath, +2 Boros Reckoner
Esper midrange - +3 Destructive Revelry, -2 Xenagos, -1 Mizzium Mortars
UW Control/Esper Control - -4 Mizzium mortars, -4 Chained, -4 Anger of the Gods, +2 Boros Reckoner, +3 Destructive Revelry, +1 Chandra, +2 Assemble the Legion, +4 Mistcutter Hydra. Keep mortars in if Esper uses Blood Barons as finishers.
Going forward I would make room for a couple of Warleader's Helixs in the 75, probably bumping 1x seles charm into the SB. The deck struggles vs. creature-light burn decks, and could use some lifegain badly. Another option is to possibly put Centaur Healers in the SB, instead of Reckoners.
Standard:
RW Boros devotion/Purphoros combo
RGB Jund Midrange
Modern:
WB Martyr.proc
If I was playing Orzhov, I would side in extra removal against this deck. Mainly a rachet bomb, blades, merciless eviction and my own walkers. What are your outs to opposing walkers such as Jace, Elspeth and even Ajani?
If there's a weakness to this deck (other than burn) its opposing PWs. To tell you the truth, so far in testing, most of them you really don't even worry about. Jace is a minor annoyance (hydras usually take him out), as is Ajani (stormbreaths usually take him out), but Elspeth in other midrange decks can obviously be a problem if the game gets to that point.
This would be another good reason to have a couple of Helix's available somewhere in the 75 to do some direct damage if needed.
Standard:
RW Boros devotion/Purphoros combo
RGB Jund Midrange
Modern:
WB Martyr.proc
I guess my other question is if you know, vs most of the aggro metagame is anger really solid? is it working where say, Drown in Sorrow would fail?
This deck is just a slight tweak to that one Brad Nelson Naya deck that won a GP (maybe it was a SCG Open). It kind of came out of no where, but was effective against the meta. Might be the time is right for that again?
EDIT: Here is the Brad Nelsom list from the end of October
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/deck_tech_naya_control_with_br.html
I don't know if I would want to run anything with a 3 color requirement in this deck at all, 2 mana is hard enough, and the deck is skewed toward hitting a turn 3 AOTG more consistently.
Anger exiles, which is the biggest thing going for it. Against GW decks running VoR and the Xathrid Esper deck, its absolutely phenomenal. It also hits Sylvan caryatid, Reckoner, Fleecemane, etc. Ever since Anger of the Gods was spoiled, I assumed it would warp standard away from aggro. It hasn't done that at all, because its used mainly as a SB card rather than a MD sweeper. If more decks ran Anger MD, you would see this meta shift in a hurry. R/W devotion, G/R and that Esper deck wouldn't even be viable anymore, and Mono U would be fringe.
Anyway, that being said, I think drown in sorrow is a sweet card, but the place for it is in Jund. Right now, Jund midrange (which is fringe right now, admittedly) uses AOTG, but it has horrible synergy with Oooze, Caryatid, and even Reaper. Drown in Sorrow hits almost everything Jund wants to hit, doesn't kill their ramp sources, and doesn't exile GY food for the ooze.
Standard:
RW Boros devotion/Purphoros combo
RGB Jund Midrange
Modern:
WB Martyr.proc
Ah, yeah, I do remember this thing.
This would pop up in DEs a while ago, but if I recall it was way more dependent on Assemble the Legion as its win con, and enchantment removal tended to wreck it.
I tested the first two lists, what they both lacked is late game inevitability that dodges removal, some way to gain life in grindy matchups, and something to do with all the mana you tend to build up. Hence the Bounty and the Defiance. I'm happy with both slots at the moment, but willing to tweak it.
Standard:
RW Boros devotion/Purphoros combo
RGB Jund Midrange
Modern:
WB Martyr.proc
My Graveyard: Xenogas, Xenogas, Chandra, Stormbreath, Elspeth
His Graveyard: Thoughtseize, Thoughtseize, Heros Downfall, Devour Flesh, Heroes Downfall
thats a total of 23 mana in my graveyard that he dealt with easily with 10 mana. He proceeded to play a couple Underworlds and then the game was over as he drew 3 cards per turn.
Thats some crap luck for you that he has (if its a stock list) 8 total outs to PWs in his deck, 4 of which have to be cast with the PW still in your hand, and he drew half of them to begin the game, then immediately stuck 2 CA engines on top of that. You know the odds of that happening are rough, right? Not unheard of, but not likely.
I'm 5-0 vs. Mono B in DEs with this list so far, and I think its the deck's best matchup and one of the main arguments for running this list. Not sure what the problem is, they're threat density is fairly low and you can answer everything with either mortars/chained/selesnya charm. After G1 I side out Angers for some mix of Last Breath Destructive Revelry and Assemble the Legion. Rarely goes to G3.
Standard:
RW Boros devotion/Purphoros combo
RGB Jund Midrange
Modern:
WB Martyr.proc
4 Chain to the Rocks
4 Selesnya Charm
4 Anger of the Gods
4 Mizzium Mortars
2 Warleader's Helix
Creatures
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Loxodon Smiter
Planeswalkers
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Xenagos, the Reveler
2 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
2 Nissa, Worldwaker
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple Garden
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Abandon
4 Temple of Plenty
3 Temple of Triumph
2 Mountain
4 Mistcutter Hydra
3 Banishing Light
3 Assemble the Legion
2 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
2 Pithing Needle
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Round 1 against Max playing Uw Devotion.
Game 1, I started out slow (as is the MO of the deck), but Anger followed by Anger combined with Max mana screwed left me plenty of time to come out on top. Ajani did work, finding Chains to KO a Master of Waves, and then digging out an Elspeth to get the show on the road.
SB-out: Loxodon Smiter x 4; Warleader's Helix x 2; Nissa, Worldwaker x 1
SB-in: Mistcutter Hydra x 4; Banishing Light x 3
Game 2, I mulled to six (five-lander!), but had three scrylands in my opener which found me my removal. Max got Thassa online which met a Selesnya Charm, I fell to 13 before Anger took care of an unfortunate over-extension. I decided to race with double Mistcutters on 5 which took me the rest of the way.
I think the game was decided when I got greedy, playing a Courser on turn 3 hoping for some lifegain/lands instead of Angering away a solo Nightveil Specter. Instead of a land, Courser reveals a Banishing Light. Lovely. I knew whatever was revealed would get gobbled up by the Specter, but I didn't want to 1-for-1 with the Anger. Nightveil connects and takes the Banishing Light, but instead of taking out my Courser (Max had plenty of white mana), he instead played another Neightveil Specter. They were eaten by the Anger, and the Mistcutters followed shortly afterwards.
2-0 games, 1-0 matches.
Round 2 against David playing BG Corpsejack counters.
Game 1, David was largely color screwed, only hitting his forests, and eventually once he hit black mana it was his scrylands. Nissa and 4/4 trample creatures went tape-to-tape, with some removal getting blockers out of the way for full damage.
SB-out: Nissa, Worldwaker x 2; Warleader's Helix x 1; Ajani, Mentor of Heroes x 1 (?: this might have been a Chandra instead)
SB-in: Elspeth, Sun's Champion x 1; Assemble the Legion x 3
Game 2, despite the Corpsejack Menaces and Dreg Manglers, I thought I was going against Bg Devotion. This was a very, very tight game. I fell to 6 before managing to close it out. Timely removal on a seemingly never-ending supply of Dreg Manglers and Corpsejack Menaces allowed Assemble the Legion and Xenagos to do god's work. David never found his Golgari Charms.
BG is not a color combination that this deck matches up well against. Everything Naya Control throws at it go right into it's wheelhouse. While this wasn't the dreaded Bg Devotion deck, these games were still very tight. One well-timed Golgari Charm, or Abrupt Decay on a Chained to the Rocks and things could have ended differently.
4-0 games, 2-0 matches.
Round 3 against Sam playing Rw Burn.
Game 1, total blow out haha. I kept a slow hand and had no answers for Chandra's Phoenixes and tons of burn. Sam hit three lands (one Mutavault) and had a full grip all game. I had no shot. Looking back, he finished game 1 at 9 life, which was due to his Battlefield Forge pinging him over and over!
SB-out: Elspeth, Sun's Champion x 1; Selesnya Charm x 4
SB-in: Banishing Light x 3; Ruric Thar, the Unbowed x 2
Game 2, Sam flooded out, I got a bunch of life off an unmolested Courser, and Ajani found Ruric for the concession.
Game 3, another total blow out. I notice that in my notes, I didn't even keep track of life totals. I went from 20 to 0 in four turns.
Naya Control has an issue with Burn. It is precisely this reason that I need to fit at least one more Warleader's Helix, if not two. I'm unsure of the cuts, however. The original Yanyuk list ran four Centaur Healer in the SB specifically because Burn is such a popular deck. I like the idea, but don't know under what other matches I'd ever run them in, which keeps me from considering them that heavily. Plus, what do I cut from the board?
5-2 games, 2-1 matches.
Round 4 against Steven planing Mono-R Rabblemaster.
Game 1, Steven got me down to 8 before double Coursers pulled me back from the brink. Anger of the Gods cleared the way for what eventually were three 4/4 trample lands courtesy of Nissa.
SB-out: Xenagos, the Reveler x 2; Selesnya Charm x1
SB-in: Banishing Light x 3
Game 2, I admit, I did not take this deck seriously. I misplayed my land drop on turn 2, playing a second Temple of Plenty instead of a Temple of Abandon, and as such I didn't have double red on turn 3 to Anger away a soon to be lethal goblin army. Instead, I played a Courser, which was immediately Mortared, and the ensuing alpha got me low enough where I couldn't recover, despite getting the Anger off on turn 4. Steven's burn finished me off.
Game 3, I ran it back and made no SB changes. Serious-face time, I took Steven's threats much less lightly, using Chains on such powerhouse cards like Goblin Kaboomist and Foundry Street Denizen, haha. The targeted removal was enough to force an over-extension that was met with an Anger. Again, Nissa and 4/4 trample lands went the distance.
I now firmly believe that Rabblemaster Red is going to be a force post-rotation. There is almost no way it can't be. Anger of the Gods is a stone-cold must against really fast aggro decks, and I hope there's some kind of red sweeper that can replace Mizzium Mortars in Khans.
7-3 games, 3-1 matches.
Cut to Top-4 (It was the morning event which is usually smaller. We had 13 people iirc)
Semi-finals against Alan playing Jund Walkers.
Game 1, I mulled to five, but Alan was stuck on only two lands. It was not an engaging match in the least. I think I just ran him over with Loxodon Smiters.
SB-out: Chain to the Rocks x 4; Warleader's Helix x 2
SB-in: Banishing Light x 3; Ruric Thar, the Unbowed x 2; Elspeth, Sun's Champion x 1
Game 2 was the opposite of Game 1. I was stuck on "only" four lands, but it wasn't enough to get multiple threats or any pressure on Alan. I was eventually done in by Garruk, Apex Predator. At last count, before a lethal attack, I was at 3 and Alan was at 30 haha!
SB-out: Selesnya Charm x 4; Chandra, Pyromaster x 2
SB-in: Chained to the Rocks x 4; Warleader's Helix x 2
Game 3, I realized I sided wrong and needed the extra removal. This game was an excruciatingly close, back and forth affair. I believe I punted when Alan had six total mana available (four lands, an Elvish Mystic and a Sylvan Caryatid). I think I should have Chained the mana dork, as if he had a land drop, he would have the mana to cast big Garruk. Instead, I opted to wait until I had six mana for a Ruric Thar, followed by an overloaded Mizzium Mortars. Alan had the land, played the Garruk, blew up my Smiter and passed. I played Ruric and passed, knowing Garruk was only on 2 loyalty, and the Mortars would take out the beast token along with the other creatures (and yes, taking six damage courtesy of my newly-minted Ruric Thar).
Alan managed to topdeck mana dork blockers to keep Ruric at bay, followed by a Vraska to take him out. I had a Banishing Light for the Vraska, but a Rakdos' Return for 5 meant we were both top-decking. It was a little ridiculous haha. He would top-deck a creature or threat, and it would meet my top-deck removal. I got Alan down to 2, with me at 7. He top-decks a Stormbreath Dragon putting me to 3, and I need to answer with either a Warleader's Helix for the win or a Mizzium Mortars to at least prolong the game. I reveal the top of my library, and it's a Stomping Grounds. GG, Alan (no pun intended, Alan was a very sweet guy. Happy to lose to him. He eventually took the Game Day Championship playmat against Sam).
In hindsight, I had no idea why I didn't side in the Pithing Needles against a deck that runs something like eight or 10 planeswalkers! You'd think that would have been a good idea haha! Also in hindsight, finding room for at least one more Warleader's Helix or some kind of legit life gain is important for this deck going forward. I'm also surprised that in all my games, Chandra was a non-factor. She zeroed me some cards in I think the first game against Alan, but he was mana screwed so it was largely symbolic. Even against the aggro decks, I didn't really see many X/1s I wanted to use her +1 on, preferring to get more value via a sweeper.
Post-rotation, I don't think the deck can stay as-is. Losing the shocklands is just too much, as despite having the painlands, they aren't mountains that are necessary for Chained to the Rocks. An option is to lean much more heavily on RW, with a G splash, but said splash would be for double-green Coursers and Nissa? It's a stretch. Maybe RG, splashing W... although really the big prize of going W over B is Elspeth, which is another stretch for a splash color. We have to hope Khans has a decent sweeper in R to replace Mizzium Mortars, and something like Path to Exile to replace the Chains haha.
Since this report, I have gone -1 Selesnya Charm, +1 Warleader's Helix in the main. The SB may need a bit of an overhaul; it's a dog to RW Burn, and WU Control requires a ton of work to get wins. But the SB strats for those match-ups are so different, I don't think it's worth watering down both solutions just to fit within the 15-card limit. It obviously depends on the meta, but I'm leaning towards the hedge against RW Burn. Something like +4 Centaur Healers, +2 Last Breath; -1 Elspeth, -2 Pithing Needles, -1 Mistcutter, -1 Assemble, -1 Banishing Light. Also, Warden of the Beyond could be a replacement for Loxodon Smiters. So much of the removal exiles. Worth testing when Khans rotates in.
I like this list a lot actually and might throw it together as well, which cards will you be taking out of the sideboard?
Devoted to Monsters
Mono White Allies
TitanShift
Proudly part of Clan Limited
But the core of the deck, I believe, is its removal package of Chained to the Rocks, Selesnya Charm, Mizzium Mortars and Anger of the Gods, all usually as 4-ofs. It makes the deck a handful, as it's just loaded with answers and a critical mass of planeswalkers. That's been my experience anyway.
I like the idea of Boros Charm in the SB, as it helps keep the deck's assets safe, and in a pinch can take a bite out of opposing planeswalkers, if not destroy them. Also, added reach if games get close.
4 End Hostilities
3 Banishing Light
3 Lightning Strike
4 Hornet Nest
2 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Xenagos, the Reveler
2 Nissa, Worldwaker
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
2 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
1 Ajani Steadfast
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Temple of Plenty
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Forest
4 Mountain
2 Plains
1 Darksteel Citadel
Couple of points before you shun the list:
I have tested against Jund Walkers, Mardu Tokens, and Rabble Red. the win % I have deduced are 80%, 85%, 60%, respectively, for pre-boarded games.
I need testing against both Temur midrange/monsters and Temur control (as I believe they will be prominent) as well as Bx removal heavy decks. Thoughtsieze/Downfall/Utter End may be enough to stop us and after boards, despise becomes a reality.
Thoughts? I am really looking for feedback here as I can't find a reason NOT to play this deck come rotation.