The point of the post is to point out that the card isn't used for Double strike to deal damage to a player, the card IS good, but the third function is only good as a combat trick, not as an efficient form of damage. The card will mostly only do four damage to a player when cast, one way or the other.
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The red mage lives by the variance and dies by the variance. May the variance be with you, always.
How is selesnya charm better than boros, azorius, or golgari charm?
I'd say it's better than Boros and Golgari. I'm not sure on it being better than Azorius (though "better" is relative since they both do completely different things), but it does have three highly useful modes that are all relevant at some point or another. Exiling a big creature is always good, being able to pump and give trample can force crucial damage through and save a creature you need saved, and if you're desperate for creatures for whatever reason, a 2/2 with vigilance at instant speed isn't a bad deal for two mana.
Ever seen an untapped Loxodon Smiter get giant growth'd followed by a charm double strike after some hotshot threw down 3 burning trees like they were the boss?
Boros charm is explosive with double strike.
You wonder why creatures with double strike rarely have power above 2?
Ever seen an untapped Loxodon Smiter get giant growth'd followed by a charm double strike after some hotshot threw down 3 burning trees like they were the boss?
Boros charm is explosive with double strike.
You wonder why creatures with double strike rarely have power above 2?
I'd just chump block with my BTE and appreciate the 2 for 1 the guy just gave me...
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Would Dark Confidant still be good if he punched you in the face for 5 damage a turn?
How is selesnya charm better than boros, azorius, or golgari charm?
I dunno.. when I've seen the charms played it seems to me that Selesnya Charm gets all 3 of its modes used more than most of the others.
I've rarely seen Azorious Charm's lifelink mode used. Each of the charms seem to be an auto include in most any of the coordinating 2 color decks, if not sideboarded.
yes its true only 2 of the effects of the card are really awesome, but if you think about it, almost all the other charms only have 2 highly used effects. like azorius charm, pbly the most used charm, only two effects are ever used, sending a creature to the top of the library and card draw, the lifelink is hardly ever used. boros charm is still very good. ive literally had control players scoop on their turn 4 when they hit a verdict and i responded with a boros charm. of course thats also back when hell rider was around
I dunno.. when I've seen the charms played it seems to me that Selesnya Charm gets all 3 of its modes used more than most of the others.
I've rarely seen Azorious Charm's lifelink mode used. Each of the charms seem to be an auto include in most any of the coordinating 2 color decks, if not sideboarded.
To each their own...everyone has a favorite.
Well unlike you I actually have a reason for stating Golgari and Boros charm are better than Selesnya Charm.
Boros and Golgari both counter Supreme Verdict. Which is back breaking for a control deck.
Boros Charm is THE most mana efficient burn spell in standard right now. 4 damage reach is wonderful for the white weenie / Burn decks it is in.
Boros Charm double strike mode isn't the best mode on the Charm but that speaks to how strong it is and the decks it is used in. This mode is best used as a pseudo removal.
Golgari Charm. Destroys enchantments which has hilarious implications in the current meta game. D- Sphere? Bye. Whip? Toodles. Boon satyr? Well this is awkward. Underworld Connections? Have fun Gray Merchant.
Golgari Charm -1/-1. This isn't the strongest ability to ever be printed on a card, but in the current meta with so many 1 toughness creatures rolling around i'm looking at you Master of Waves, Lotleth troll, Elvish Mystic, Lifebane Zombie, Dryad Militant, Daring Skyjek, Soldier of the Pantheon it is pretty good.
Selesnya Charm? Well it gives reach to a deck that needs it assuming that your attacking creature doesn't get hit by a removal spell. I mean giving trample to your chump blocked advent of the wurm token is great right? Oh wait nevermind it already has trample.
Exiling a creature with 5 power or greater? Now that is definitely useful against troublesome creatures like Polukranos, Thassa, and Desecration Demon. Is there anything else that pops up a lot in standard that this hits? Reaper. Nope. Stormbreath Dragon? Not unless it goes monstrous. Blood Baron?
A 2/2 with vigilance for 2 mana is kinda mediocre so I mean its good to chump block with... except anything that you need to chump block could just get exiled with it... or maybe you could pump your creature to trade up?
Selesnya Charm is effectively redundant unto itself.
Because a player is actually going to waste an instant speed win con while you have chump blockers? Let's give them a little more credit than that...
If someone has a giant growth and a boros charm in hand with mana to use them and has a creature on the field when I have nothing to block with... I'm pretty sure this game was already beyond winning. No wait oh hey doomblade thanks for the 3 for 1. Back in it!
Boros Charm being used for double strike implies that the deck is either running 5 power creatures, pump spells, or intends to have favorable offensive combat tricks. Certainly, you can use the indestructibility to save a creature in combat, but the first strike effect is lackluster depending on the creature you are trying to save. If you are on the defense, it then depends on the utility of the creature you are trying to save.
That being said, to the above poster, what kind of a creature based deck is going to run boros charm and giant growth? That seems very unlikely in constructed play.
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The red mage lives by the variance and dies by the variance. May the variance be with you, always.
Well unlike you I actually have a reason for stating Golgari and Boros charm are better than Selesnya Charm.
Boros and Golgari both counter Supreme Verdict. Which is back breaking for a control deck.
Boros Charm is THE most mana efficient burn spell in standard right now. 4 damage reach is wonderful for the white weenie / Burn decks it is in.
Boros Charm double strike mode isn't the best mode on the Charm but that speaks to how strong it is and the decks it is used in. This mode is best used as a pseudo removal.
Golgari Charm. Destroys enchantments which has hilarious implications in the current meta game. D- Sphere? Bye. Whip? Toodles. Boon satyr? Well this is awkward. Underworld Connections? Have fun Gray Merchant.
Golgari Charm -1/-1. This isn't the strongest ability to ever be printed on a card, but in the current meta with so many 1 toughness creatures rolling around i'm looking at you Master of Waves, Lotleth troll, Elvish Mystic, Lifebane Zombie, Dryad Militant, Daring Skyjek, Soldier of the Pantheon it is pretty good.
Selesnya Charm? Well it gives reach to a deck that needs it assuming that your attacking creature doesn't get hit by a removal spell. I mean giving trample to your chump blocked advent of the wurm token is great right? Oh wait nevermind it already has trample.
Exiling a creature with 5 power or greater? Now that is definitely useful against troublesome creatures like Polukranos, Thassa, and Desecration Demon. Is there anything else that pops up a lot in standard that this hits? Reaper. Nope. Stormbreath Dragon? Not unless it goes monstrous. Blood Baron?
A 2/2 with vigilance for 2 mana is kinda mediocre so I mean its good to chump block with... except anything that you need to chump block could just get exiled with it... or maybe you could pump your creature to trade up?
Selesnya Charm is effectively redundant unto itself.
Meh.
Selesnya Charm will help trample over so many threats, exile gods, Desecration Demon, Polukranos, and flash in a 2/2 knight. Instant speed creatures are great to have. That's why I'd recognize it as the best charm.
It's an instant speed pumpremovalcreature spell. Pretty sweet.
Golgari Charm is great, but it's more of a sideboard card, than a must have. Black having the ability to hit enchantments is cruicial, but I'd rather have Abrupt Decay for those pesky Dsphere's and UC's.
If someone has a giant growth and a boros charm in hand with mana to use them and has a creature on the field when I have nothing to block with... I'm pretty sure this game was already beyond winning. No wait oh hey doomblade thanks for the 3 for 1. Back in it!
In my experience Izzet charm uses all 3 modes at the same frequency. Loot, counter and shock are 3 pretty killer things to have happen.
But that top of deck trick for azorius charm is just so amazing sometimes.
Izzet charm is really useful as well, but in my experience without flashback cards in play, I don't want to draw two and dump two as much as when Think Twice and Faithless Looting were standard legal.
And i agree about that Azorious Charm. I know every time it happens to me, I get really annoyed. Ha!
Boros Charm being used for double strike implies that the deck is either running 5 power creatures, pump spells, or intends to have favorable offensive combat tricks. Certainly, you can use the indestructibility to save a creature in combat, but the first strike effect is lackluster depending on the creature you are trying to save. If you are on the defense, it then depends on the utility of the creature you are trying to save.
That being said, to the above poster, what kind of a creature based deck is going to run boros charm and giant growth? That seems very unlikely in constructed play.
What he said.
I think it depends on everyone's play style. I like more aggro based decks than control.
I can see Rakdos Charm starting to gain some play for graveyard hate against UW control, and against mono blue and black for it's ability to destroy the whip and bident and also deal damage when someone drops a Master of Waves that brings several elementals into play. Especially now that us Rakdos players will have our scry land.
Ok this is what happened when i was playing my naya deck against monoblack last FNM:
ok, i cast desecration demon and attack with my three pack rats on your tapped loxodon and untapped voice or resurgence, block i take 6 go to 5 life.
My turn, sac token to des, attack with loxodon, pump with ghor clan rampager, used boros charm double strike mode, 16 to the face, i win.
Here is the obvious thing, it does damage.
Here is the non-obvious thing, the double strike doesn't do what timmy's think it will do for them, bring a lot of damage.
It is all likely that in a standard format situation, the doublestrike will at most provide the same amount of damage as the direct damage mode will do.
Therefore, people who think they are going in for a double strike kill are not often going to get much more damage for the card. They require a creature with at least 5 power at the time to be targeted to get a measily 2 more damage out of the double strike effect.
I thought this simple conclusion should be obvious, as it seems most people use it for the direct damage, and as a backup to save creatures. Both are good abilities, but it certainly is not the super damage dealer that timmy players treat it to be. Giant growth provides a lightning bolt amount of damage as well as saves a creature from deadly damage does it not?
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The red mage lives by the variance and dies by the variance. May the variance be with you, always.
Double strike mode might, and I do mean might, have some minor effect in Naya with the new Xenagos in some fantasy scenarios. Having said that, the first two modes are more than enough to warrant strong consideration for most RW decks. I just don't think it is quite enough to maindeck right now and will likely get worse with the new removal tools that black is getting.
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I have to agree with Zem, its good. Its good sideboard tech. But it isn't essential, and it is certainly not the best charm in standard.
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So it's the second best charm?
Selesnya Charm is the only other charm that could be seen as better.
I'd probably rank the Charms... It's pretty hard though.
Selesnya
Boros
Azorious
Simic
Golgari
Izzet
Orzhov
Rakdos
Dimir
Gruul
Doesn't that depend on... YOUR DECK?
I'd say it's better than Boros and Golgari. I'm not sure on it being better than Azorius (though "better" is relative since they both do completely different things), but it does have three highly useful modes that are all relevant at some point or another. Exiling a big creature is always good, being able to pump and give trample can force crucial damage through and save a creature you need saved, and if you're desperate for creatures for whatever reason, a 2/2 with vigilance at instant speed isn't a bad deal for two mana.
Boros charm is explosive with double strike.
You wonder why creatures with double strike rarely have power above 2?
I'd just chump block with my BTE and appreciate the 2 for 1 the guy just gave me...
I dunno.. when I've seen the charms played it seems to me that Selesnya Charm gets all 3 of its modes used more than most of the others.
I've rarely seen Azorious Charm's lifelink mode used. Each of the charms seem to be an auto include in most any of the coordinating 2 color decks, if not sideboarded.
To each their own...everyone has a favorite.
But that top of deck trick for azorius charm is just so amazing sometimes.
Because a player is actually going to waste an instant speed win con while you have chump blockers? Let's give them a little more credit than that...
Well unlike you I actually have a reason for stating Golgari and Boros charm are better than Selesnya Charm.
Boros and Golgari both counter Supreme Verdict. Which is back breaking for a control deck.
Boros Charm is THE most mana efficient burn spell in standard right now. 4 damage reach is wonderful for the white weenie / Burn decks it is in.
Boros Charm double strike mode isn't the best mode on the Charm but that speaks to how strong it is and the decks it is used in. This mode is best used as a pseudo removal.
Golgari Charm. Destroys enchantments which has hilarious implications in the current meta game. D- Sphere? Bye. Whip? Toodles. Boon satyr? Well this is awkward. Underworld Connections? Have fun Gray Merchant.
Golgari Charm -1/-1. This isn't the strongest ability to ever be printed on a card, but in the current meta with so many 1 toughness creatures rolling around i'm looking at you Master of Waves, Lotleth troll, Elvish Mystic, Lifebane Zombie, Dryad Militant, Daring Skyjek, Soldier of the Pantheon it is pretty good.
Selesnya Charm? Well it gives reach to a deck that needs it assuming that your attacking creature doesn't get hit by a removal spell. I mean giving trample to your chump blocked advent of the wurm token is great right? Oh wait nevermind it already has trample.
Exiling a creature with 5 power or greater? Now that is definitely useful against troublesome creatures like Polukranos, Thassa, and Desecration Demon. Is there anything else that pops up a lot in standard that this hits? Reaper. Nope. Stormbreath Dragon? Not unless it goes monstrous. Blood Baron?
A 2/2 with vigilance for 2 mana is kinda mediocre so I mean its good to chump block with... except anything that you need to chump block could just get exiled with it... or maybe you could pump your creature to trade up?
Selesnya Charm is effectively redundant unto itself.
If someone has a giant growth and a boros charm in hand with mana to use them and has a creature on the field when I have nothing to block with... I'm pretty sure this game was already beyond winning. No wait oh hey doomblade thanks for the 3 for 1. Back in it!
That being said, to the above poster, what kind of a creature based deck is going to run boros charm and giant growth? That seems very unlikely in constructed play.
Meh.
Selesnya Charm will help trample over so many threats, exile gods, Desecration Demon, Polukranos, and flash in a 2/2 knight. Instant speed creatures are great to have. That's why I'd recognize it as the best charm.
It's an instant speed pumpremovalcreature spell. Pretty sweet.
Golgari Charm is great, but it's more of a sideboard card, than a must have. Black having the ability to hit enchantments is cruicial, but I'd rather have Abrupt Decay for those pesky Dsphere's and UC's.
Hmm... this must've happened to you I take it.
Izzet charm is really useful as well, but in my experience without flashback cards in play, I don't want to draw two and dump two as much as when Think Twice and Faithless Looting were standard legal.
And i agree about that Azorious Charm. I know every time it happens to me, I get really annoyed. Ha!
What he said.
I think it depends on everyone's play style. I like more aggro based decks than control.
I can see Rakdos Charm starting to gain some play for graveyard hate against UW control, and against mono blue and black for it's ability to destroy the whip and bident and also deal damage when someone drops a Master of Waves that brings several elementals into play. Especially now that us Rakdos players will have our scry land.
ok, i cast desecration demon and attack with my three pack rats on your tapped loxodon and untapped voice or resurgence, block i take 6 go to 5 life.
My turn, sac token to des, attack with loxodon, pump with ghor clan rampager, used boros charm double strike mode, 16 to the face, i win.
Here is the non-obvious thing, the double strike doesn't do what timmy's think it will do for them, bring a lot of damage.
It is all likely that in a standard format situation, the doublestrike will at most provide the same amount of damage as the direct damage mode will do.
Therefore, people who think they are going in for a double strike kill are not often going to get much more damage for the card. They require a creature with at least 5 power at the time to be targeted to get a measily 2 more damage out of the double strike effect.
I thought this simple conclusion should be obvious, as it seems most people use it for the direct damage, and as a backup to save creatures. Both are good abilities, but it certainly is not the super damage dealer that timmy players treat it to be. Giant growth provides a lightning bolt amount of damage as well as saves a creature from deadly damage does it not?
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