I've been noticing a trend in the current metagame. Many decks are midrange and control. Aggro decks have slowed down a bit. Threats come in a bit later. Control vs. Control always ends up who can get a revelation first and land a threat.
Enter Grixis. I feel that Grixis, right now, has a favorable matchup against some of the midrange decks and has some incredible options against esper. I'd like to discuss some of the benefits and drawbacks of removing white for red in today's control builds.
They are not, however, without their replacements. Anger of the Gods, and possibly Mizzium Mortars are both outstanding sweepers. Anger comes down a turn earlier and takes care of things like Voice of Resurgence and Chandra's Pheonix for good. Mortars has a double use as a nice spot removal spell for problems like Blood Baron and Stormbreath Dragon, (two of the biggest threats to control are threats because of their protection abilities) and can be a late-game sweeper if threats get out of hand later in the game. Supreme verdict, I will admit, is better in a vacuum, but, because I've often been seeing it played to only eliminate one creature at a time, I think the meta has shifted to make a plethora of spot removal a better option.
Azorius charm is great, don't get me wrong, but Esper players, tell me, how often do you use the bounce method instead of just cantripping? How does this ratio compare to how often you used it before Theros?
Grixis gives us access to Turn // Burn, which in my opinion is a highly underrated card. For five mana it can take care of nearly any creature at instant speed, and for three mana and that Frostburn Weird/Omenspeaker you played last turn it gets the job done well as well.
We also get Dreadbore, if you find yourself needing to kill planeswalkers and creatures way too much.
Grixis also gives us access to one of the best counterspells vs. control (and possibly the biggest reason it is a good idea to move to grixis/america control) : Counterflux. Control vs. Control games can go long enough to leave counter backup for your threats, so they don't get countered. This card is the answer. It helps ensure your threats will get down and stay down while your opponent's won't. You can still run dissolve, but having access to this card is a huge boon. It's one of the best defenses against Aetherling as well.
Lastly, Rakdos's Return is quicker, can take out planeswalkers, and is much more devastating to a control/midrange player than a resolved Revelation. Playing this after they tap out for elspeth, killing elspeth and their hand at the same time is just glorious (provided you can deal with a few 1/1s until the next turn) and as long as they don't topdeck a new Revelation you will have crippled them for the remainder of the game. Add thoughtseize to the mix to remove counters before the Return and you have a very devastating combo.
If you want threats, you still have Aetherling, but you can also grab [Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius[/CARD], who you'll laugh at and say "Dies to doomblade" at first but then realize his power as you've got 8 cards in hand and they have 0. Very good way to start refilling your hand after a big return. You can protect him with Far and Away if you really want to get technical.
Opportunity is an adequate replacement for revelation.
I don't have a Detention Sphere replacement for you at the moment, nor does Grixis have lifegain. I feel though, in this meta, it isn't as necessary.
What do you think? This is meant to be a discussion starter, so please, if you have any thoughts on the matter feel free to say so.
I've been a dedicated Grixis player for the last few months, even during the last Standard season. I like what you've posted... some players seem to think that white is non-negotiable for playing control, but really, it's blue that's the core color. We still get Aetherling and Prognostic Sphinx, plus Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius.
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I think that the greatest reason players choose esper over grixis just comes down to what control is really about on the competitive scene.
Control players want to match answers to the opponent's threats, grind out games through card advantage, and seal games with tons of mana coupled with a finisher (be it slow or fast). Grixis vs Esper is really essentially "Red vs White", and the choices it presents really define the kind of game your deck wants to play. Anger of the Gods and Mizzium Mortars are damage based removal, which is usually quite solid. However, such removal is generally more inconsistent then "destroy all" or "exile all" effects that we have in white (Merciless Eviction, Planar Cleansing, Supreme Verdict).
Detention Sphere is equally tasked with permanent removal of Voice of Resurgence and Chandra's Phoenix. A plethora of spot removal is primarily in the color Black, which both Esper and Grixis are capable of supporting (Doom Blade, Hero's Downfall, Far // Away, Devour Flesh, Ultimate Price) The spot removal issue is not one that is addressed by switching to Grixis, it just means you need more spot removal in your decklist.
One of the reasons Azorius Charm is outstanding lies in it's cantrip mode. It means the card is never a dead card, and can be used to see another card deeper into your deck (whether that means finding another answer to match to a threat, making your next land drop, or picking up a win condition). The card was used as removal in the time of Nephalia Drownyard because there was far more permanence to it's removal side. Now the mill options are far less viable in control (the only semi-playable one I can think of is Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver), and so the mode has slightly less relevance. It does not make the Charm a worse card though.
Turn // Burn is a card that has slightly more relevance to the metagame now that Indestructible is an ability rather than a card characteristic. However, it does not have much more efficiency than a card like Curse of the Swine or Rapid Hybridization. It is more effective at taking care of troublesome abilities (Angel of Serenity, for example), but the amount of times an ability that you need to remove before removing the card itself are few and far between. Turn // Burn is, on it's best day, a conditional 2-for-1. On it's worst, it's 5 mana spot-removal or a 2 mana Shock. I don't think this card is a reason to sacrifice white.
Dreadbore is essentially a slower Hero's Downfall, and it doesn't allow you to stay untapped or react at the end of an opponent's turn.
I absolutely agree that Counterflux is a trump in counterspell wars. I myself have not experienced a counterspell war in quite some time, and I don't know how often the mana cost might pose itself as an issue, but I know for a fact that counterflux was outstanding in Pre-Theros American Midrange/Control. However, it's ability to outclass every other counterspell is a conditionally good thing. As a counterspell, it is strictly worse against any kind of deck that is primarily creature based or does not run counterspells. It is equally bad against Savage Summoning (though Essence Scatter is worse than other counterspells because it cannot counter the Savage Summoning itself), but it costs an additional colored mana. Counterflux is best when you're having a stack war, and a war on the stack usually means 2 decks that make use of a lot of instants. Meaning it needs to both fit your deck, and play well against the opponent's deck. Dissolve is strictly better than Counterflux against every deck besides a control deck.
Rakdos's Return is not a control deck's card, generally. It is not a finisher unless you can cast it for the full 20 (or whatever life total your opponent is at), and as such it has to be coupled with a strong board presence. That is why it's hayday was when Jund was a dominant force in standard. Jund consistently produced threats that required multiple or specific answers and then could just tear the control player's hand to pieces while they were looking for those answers (or once they tapped out to play them). Rakdos's Return is very powerful, but you have to keep in mind that you aren't actually winning the game with that card alone most of the time. Also, it is stone-cold terrible against aggro.
Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius was the finisher of choice in many American Control builds pre-Theros. He is a strong card in general, but as the meta tends towards larger amounts of instant-speed spot-removal, he looks worse than a threat that has natural protection against some form of spot removal (Pro-color, Self-exile/return, Indestructible, non-creature). I agree that he can generate card advantage when you slam him with a bunch of extra UR mana, and he is indeed a finisher, but he is not strictly better than any other option in white.
In the last part of the OP, we come to what is essentially the overarching issue of Esper vs Grixis.
Opportunity is not a suitable replacement for Sphinx's Revelation. There is no lifegain to assist with aggro matchups, and there is nothing as "all-encompassing" as an "exile target nonland permanent and all other permanents with the same name". Grixis cannot continuously generate card advantage at the rate that Esper can, and it's threats are more easily dealt with. More of Grixis Control's spells are sorcery speed. It's one true "trump" card is only strictly better in control matchups, and it is only one card. Grixis's answers to threats are more conditional and specific than Esper's.
TL;DR
If you want to play competitively, Esper has more instant speed answers that respond to a greater amount of threats than Grixis does. Also, Sphinx's Revelation is too good to take out of control, and Rakdos's Return is not a true finisher in a control deck. Grixis is a change, and can be refreshing, but it's conditional answers fall well short of the standard set by Esper. Esper's card-pool will always be better for control than Grixis.
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The problem with Grixis is that theres no card like Cruel Ultimatum around that really brings the deck together. You give up playing Sphinxs Rev, Elspeth, Veridct and Sphere to play burn and more sorcery speed removal basically. The only card worth while in Grixis is Rakdos Return but for a tap out control deck, its not really as effective as if you were playing a more aggressive mid range deck.
Theres not enough pros to give up playing all the best UW cards for burn and removal. It might be different but its miles away from being on the same competitive level. The incentives to play Red with UB instead of White arent there at the moment since theres no real bomb that the deck can play.
I don't think you can play a control deck right now without Supreme Verdict, sure anger of the gods can be a sweeper but it's not on the same level as verdict. The thing about playing U/W/x control is that you can be hugely behind and then go Verdict into revelation or even Jace and just win the game outright vs most of the field. Specifically the issue I found was that there's very few ways for grixis to create any meaningful card advantage, counter spells are better in that deck but it's pretty telling that esper hardly plays any main deck counters as it can reliably just answer things once they resolve anyways (outside of Aetherling).
I forget who said it but I remember a pro talking about the strength of the U/W core being that you can be in a situation where any other deck would 100% lose but if you're playing Sphinx's Revelation and Supreme Verdict you're only really one topdeck away from being a huge underdog to being a huge favorite. Also there's no good instant speed card draw for grixis and elspeth is really insane for a control deck since it basically does everything you'd really want.
Comparing the decks the only thing grixis has really going for it is counterflux IMO, rakdos's return is a cool card but it doesn't necessarily win you the game the same way a revelation will and it's not the same kind of "oh look I win" top deck late game either.
I'm reading all kinds of silly things in this thread. Let me start:
1) Yes, Grixis only has Mortars, Anger of the Gods and I'll even consider Ratchet Bomb as opposed to Verdict, Merciless Eviction and *cough* Planar Cleansing *cough*. But you forget the stupid amount of options of removal available by adding red (dont forget, Grixis can use blue and black spells too!)
you can basically kill anything for cheap. which brings me to my next point -
2. sphinx's revelation is nice but NOT necessary. with the cheap removal and anger of the gods and ratchet bomb, the lifegain is nice but it doesnt matter as much. post-aggro decks are SLOW outside of maybe mono red (which is easy to spot remove all day) or something like GW. If you have something like Jace 4.0 and Opportunity (which is a grrrreat card) it is more than enough steam.
3) for everything else there is duress, thoughtseize and counterspells
sphinx's revelation is nice but NOT necessary. with the cheap removal and anger of the gods and ratchet bomb, the lifegain is nice but it doesnt matter as much. post-aggro decks are SLOW outside of maybe mono red (which is easy to spot remove all day) or something like GW. If you have something like Jace 4.0 and Opportunity (which is a grrrreat card) it is more than enough steam.
I agree with the idea. Sphinx's rev in the control mirror has become much less important, and it's still relevant in the aggro MU but it's just another spell that counters them.
That being said... usually the response to Sphinx's Rev is to either counter it, make them discard it, or go under it (aggro). It can be answered, but it's still a card. And it doesn't change the fact that in most of these situations you resolve it for significant enough cards/life and it's game-winning. If you are replacing it, you need a good spell on the other side to replace it with.
I think the argument regarding Sphinx's Rev is similar to the argument regarding Olivia in Jund last year. A lot of people made the same points that everyone has answers for Olivia and ways to deal with Olivia. But at the end of the day, if you untap with Olivia against any deck but control, you've gained a huge advantage.
Why does sphinx's Revelation win? Well, because it gives you a big card and life advantage. So does Rakdos's Return. Explain how forcing a control player into topdeck mode while you still have 4 or 5 cards in hand isn't game-winning. Only a revelation will bring you back from that, but that's what counterflux is for, isn't it?
Of course return is bad against aggro. I would not play any (maybe one copy depending on the meta) mainboard, but having it as an option against control is huge.
Think back to Jund using Return. A resolved Return was not exactly game over then because they could topdeck a myriad of cards and get back in the game. Here, they have to topdeck Revelation the turn after or they're done. There's also thoughtseize and duress to make sure it doesn't get countered, and since its one mana, it doesn't make the return any worse.
I know in a vacuum Grixis isn't as good as Esper right now. I'm trying to argue that a switch to red can give the tools needed to take down Esper and midrange strategies in this meta.
When I said Opportunity is a suitable replacement I meant that it's decent enough to be the big card drawing spell in the deck. It's nowhere near revelation, but if we can't use revelation its the next best thing.
I think the problem color in grixis is blue. RB already has all the tools it needs to control the board. Right now there's not many counter-or-bust threats, and thoughtseize shores up those kinds of problems anyway. The main reasons to run blue are jace, aetherling, and counters.. and none of that are really worth losing the pressure and free wins you can get from packing 4x mutavault and 2x keyrune.
Why does sphinx's Revelation win? Well, because it gives you a big card and life advantage. So does Rakdos's Return. Explain how forcing a control player into topdeck mode while you still have 4 or 5 cards in hand isn't game-winning. Only a revelation will bring you back from that, but that's what counterflux is for, isn't it?
Of course return is bad against aggro. I would not play any (maybe one copy depending on the meta) mainboard, but having it as an option against control is huge.
Think back to Jund using Return. A resolved Return was not exactly game over then because they could topdeck a myriad of cards and get back in the game. Here, they have to topdeck Revelation the turn after or they're done. There's also thoughtseize and duress to make sure it doesn't get countered, and since its one mana, it doesn't make the return any worse.
I know in a vacuum Grixis isn't as good as Esper right now. I'm trying to argue that a switch to red can give the tools needed to take down Esper and midrange strategies in this meta.
When I said Opportunity is a suitable replacement I meant that it's decent enough to be the big card drawing spell in the deck. It's nowhere near revelation, but if we can't use revelation its the next best thing.
You are stating the problem, with running Grixis over Esper, right in this post. Rakdos's return is not good against aggro, while Sphinx's revelations is good against aggro. Aggro can tack on more damage faster than Grixis can wipe, counter, or kill creatures and without any suitable lifegain style card Grixis just crumbles. As someone else mentioned Grixis needs a Cruel Ultimatum-like card which gains you life.
I think the problem color in grixis is blue. RB already has all the tools it needs to control the board. Right now there's not many counter-or-bust threats, and thoughtseize shores up those kinds of problems anyway. The main reasons to run blue are jace, aetherling, and counters.. and none of that are really worth losing the pressure and free wins you can get from packing 4x mutavault and 2x keyrune.
Dropping blue means you lose out on Turn // Burn, Instant speed draw, Far // Away, and many great wincons. What are the Rakdos wincons? How do you win the game?
EDIT: @broodwarjc I am aware. I'm just saying that in a meta with not very great aggro and lots of control and midrange, Sphinx's Revelation is less appealing and Rakdos's Return is more appealing than in an aggro-heavy meta.
Hero's downfall is just better than turn//burn. Read the bones is fine card draw, the deck is tap-out, not draw-go. Again, there's very few must-counter threats and it's easy enough to just downfall on my turn rather than waste a turn not beating down for about 5. Far//away is fine with just 4 temples of deceit as blue sources, but even then devour flesh is often better. Desecration Demon and Stormbreath Dragon are fine wincons, as well as good ol' mutavault and rakdos keyrune. I've won so many games off of just beating down with mana sources.
Grixis/rakdos isn't esper and shouldn't try to emulate esper's game plan of being a stone wall, because esper just has better tools available for that plan. Rakdos and grixis are far more tempo-oriented and particularly excels in forcing stumbles (with thoughtseize) and then punishing those stumbles. Due to esper's mana base, they basically play the entire game a turn behind. That's okay when you have verdict and sphinx's rev to lean on, but it's fatal to grixis.
Aggro can tack on more damage faster than Grixis can wipe, counter, or kill creatures and without any suitable lifegain style card Grixis just crumbles.
This simply isn't true. Having red gives us options to cheap removal (in addition to the ton we already have). I feel like whenever I am playing against aggro it is almost an auto-win. Just side out discard/expensive counters for more cheap removal. The only tools aggro have are brave the elements, boros charm and a couple of protection from X creatures, which sac spells, split cards (which can be monocolored against pro x creatures), anger of the gods, ratchet bomb, etc get around.
This simply isn't true. Having red gives us options to cheap removal (in addition to the ton we already have). I feel like whenever I am playing against aggro it is almost an auto-win. Just side out discard/expensive counters for more cheap removal. The only tools aggro have are brave the elements, boros charm and a couple of protection from X creatures, which sac spells, split cards (which can be monocolored against pro x creatures), anger of the gods, ratchet bomb, etc get around.
I dont know if you havent noticed, but in this format, except for esper, most 3 color decks arent on top of this format. Grixis only has 1 scry land meaning its mana base isnt very good. The gates are pretty bad to run in an control deck and without any life gain, the shock lands are going to make you take too much damage. Going 1 for 1 cant take you the distance. Anger of the Gods isnt as good as Verdict and Ratchet Bomb is too situational to do what you need it to do always.
I use esper and many times one Verdict or playing a bunch of removal cant always put the game away on its own unless whoever im playing is bad or they get a terrible hand. Its usually stabilizing with Elspeth or late game sphinxs rev gaining too much life and the overwelming card advantage that puts the game away. Theres too much reach in the format to where card advantage isnt enough to stablize. , Not only is their burn, but you got things like Thassa, Gray merchant, mogis marauder and Mistcutter hydra that can easily sneak in wins when you dont have enough life.
I hate to say it but the UWx plan is where control wants to be right now in terms of competitive play if your trying to go that route. Theres no real reason to be using blue with Red and Black since the mana base is better with RB. The thing even with RB that Ive talked to players who have used that deck is that it suffers from the same reasons why Grixis wouldnt be good and its that it cant stabilize too well. Adding in worse mana just to draw cards isnt going to fix any of the decks problems.
1 for 1 with mediocre card draw/filtering is asking to lose to a resolved threat you don't have the answer to. Without lifegain, you're asking to lose to a single response from the aggressive deck (boros charm/rootborne defensives).
Having your sweeper not kill essentially any of the major creatures (although silver bulleting voice) is a real problem. You deal with the ultra aggressive decks, at the cost of having an essentially useless sweeper against any of the mid range decks (no green creature cares, and desecration demon doesn't either), and a sweeper even worse against esper than verdict (at least verdict might hit a blood baron). Essentially, there's a significant list of commonly played creatures that anger fails to deal with. While verdict is not great in all matchups, it's at least a 4 mana remove a creature. Anger can fail to do this.
If sphinx's rev was blue sun's zenith, no one would be playing esper either. Especially with the devotion decks ways to get around counter/spot removal (stabilizing to die to a top deck mogis/gray merchant or gray merchant whip activation is not exactly the best place to be in). Drop whatever you want, none of the devotion decks care if you're at 5 life.
Grixis has the benefit of absolutely crushing esper (slaughter games/counterflux), but it handles big aggro worse than esper, and aggressive aggro slightly better than esper (still terribly).
I've wanted grixis control to work for so long, but without the lifegain you just can't hold out against many of the current decks.
Hero's downfall is just better than turn//burn. Read the bones is fine card draw, the deck is tap-out, not draw-go. Again, there's very few must-counter threats and it's easy enough to just downfall on my turn rather than waste a turn not beating down for about 5. Far//away is fine with just 4 temples of deceit as blue sources, but even then devour flesh is often better. Desecration Demon and Stormbreath Dragon are fine wincons, as well as good ol' mutavault and rakdos keyrune. I've won so many games off of just beating down with mana sources.
Grixis/rakdos isn't esper and shouldn't try to emulate esper's game plan of being a stone wall, because esper just has better tools available for that plan. Rakdos and grixis are far more tempo-oriented and particularly excels in forcing stumbles (with thoughtseize) and then punishing those stumbles. Due to esper's mana base, they basically play the entire game a turn behind. That's okay when you have verdict and sphinx's rev to lean on, but it's fatal to grixis.
I agree with this, but when I tried it, I just felt like I'm playing a worse devotion deck with a more volatile mana base.
We are a spot removal deck... We can kill the things that give devotion as well as a mono black deck can.
Having said that... I get the feeling you are right... My deck is putting up a fight but its not winning as much as I'd like. It was actually way better right at the start of the format. Devotion decks use too many non creature perminates.
Mono black has two things grixis doesn't have... 1. Life gain... Gary... 2. Free wins Turn two pack rat.
Esper has Detention sphere and Sphinx's Rev... everything else can be replaced in grixis.
Grixis has to work for everything.
I am just sitting pretty and waiting for the next set.. I only have enough money to invest in 1 deck. I actually played this deck last season and since most of my win cons were still in standard I just stuck with it and changed the lands and support spells.
I'd really like better card filtering... preferably on a 1 mana blue sorcery... but with all the scry around... I don't know. UR scry land would go a long way to improving the deck.
Finally Ral Zarek and izzet charm are massively underrated. And you should take another look at some izzet cards.
We are a spot removal deck... We can kill the things that give devotion as well as a mono black deck can.
Having said that... I get the feeling you are right... My deck is putting up a fight but its not winning as much as I'd like. It was actually way better right at the start of the format. Devotion decks use too many non creature perminates.
Mono black has two things grixis doesn't have... 1. Life gain... Gary... 2. Free wins Turn two pack rat.
Esper has Detention sphere and Sphinx's Rev... everything else can be replaced in grixis.
Grixis has to work for everything.
I am just sitting pretty and waiting for the next set.. I only have enough money to invest in 1 deck. I actually played this deck last season and since most of my win cons were still in standard I just stuck with it and changed the lands and support spells.
I'd really like better card filtering... preferably on a 1 mana blue sorcery... but with all the scry around... I don't know. UR scry land would go a long way to improving the deck.
Finally Ral Zarek and izzet charm are massively underrated. And you should take another look at some izzet cards.
Ral zerek is great, but I like him better in a non control deck. If you can't effectively use the +1 to play/force threats, it's not worth it. For izzet, unfortunately, Niv-mizzet isn't blood baron/elspeth, and augury isn't fact or fiction.
I think the two biggest issues are this. Anger, in a pinch, cannot necessarily 1for1 a creature you don't want to deal with. And the biggest issue is that you can stabilize, but a lot of times you can't get out of reach range. There have been many games that I didn't have the cards to answer those couple of possible topdecks that wins the opponent the game.
At least with the current season, control decks don't have to deal with undying and hexproof...
Maybe let's ask this question: How essential is Black to the build? I think we can agree that UW needs to be the core of the build, for Sphinx's Revelation, Detention Sphere, and Supreme Verdict, but is there any reason to go with red or green over black? The biggest thing is losing hand disruption (Thoughtseize) and planeswalker removal (Hero's Downfall), Blood Baron of Viskopa is nice but I'm sure other cards could fill his role.
Green probably doesn't offer quite as much, but you do get Bramblecrush which still kills walkers / anything annoying that isn't a creature (including lands). I've also been thinking about trying Plasm Capture, to help propel into huge game ending threats much earlier, like turns 4-5 as opposed to 6-7. You get lots of mana rampy dudes to get to your top end a lot quicker, where you might consider playing something like Sylvan Primordial or Mistcutter Hydra. Plasm Capture into Mistcutter Hydra, by the way, seems really good, especially if you can also keep mana for something like Simic Charm to protect your beaters / walkers.
I'm convinced that Esper is without a doubt a better choice than Grixis. I'm not sure I'm 100% sold that Esper is absolutely better than UWR or Bant though.
There's a lot of people that are brewing with what you just said. I wish hero's downfall wasn't so prevalent because I'd love to go chandra, jace, and elspeth for fun.
In general, going UW/x with detention spheres makes the mono-b splash green match up difficult (golgari charm and abrupt decay can be painful). I've found that you usually have no good answers to DD in general, charm on whip targets is still a loss for you.
For RUW, morters/helix tend to be good removal (morters hits a lot of the relevant targets azorious charm misses), of course, you're looking at some bad options against DD. I definitely like wear/tear hitting whip/connections. That's probably an unrecoverable tempo loss for them.
If you're going bant, it might make sense to go advent of the wurm (it can serve as both removal and a finisher). I like bant for having skylasher's in the side (Mono-U matchup is usually sad). Beats tidebinder mage/master, blocks spectre all day.
What I've found with control in the past block and this block, is it really comes down to do you have the right removal at the right time. Like my previous example, hexproof vs undying. Verdicting 2 strangleroot geists is mindnumblingly terrible, but on the other hand, having pillar/az charm when your opponent drops geist of saint traft is also a terrible feeling.
I feel a similar feeling with the current removal suite helix/morters/downfall/a bunch of other black removal (price, far//away, dreadbore, warped phisique). They have this weird cyclic relationship where some creatures ignore a certain removal spell, and need the other kind, and you're hoping jace/sphinx gets you to both. Downfall vs baron, helix vs stormbreath, any spot removal vs reaper, az charm vs any of the previous 3, red spells vs DD, etc. Not to mention the very few ways to deal with an enabled god. That's why, so far, it seems people just keep shoving different amounts of different types of removal and hoping for the best. All the colors have answers, the question is will you have it at the right time? With the terrible filtering/draw choices, a lot of times that answer seems to be no.
And then, after teching for all this, you get blown out by boros charm against w/r or rootborne defenses against g/w when you get paired against them.
It's difficult to maintain the early game 1 for 1 answer/threat parity without cheap filtering (which I don't even know if we'll ever see again).
I hate to be like this because I love playing control, but it seems like so much of the current format is determined by the right removal draws. It seems better to just play as many threats on the table and ask your opponent, do you have az charm against my blood baron, helix against my polukranos, downfall against my thassa? Yes -> grats on your loss. No -> what if I play another?
Mono U and Mono B, especially, have the threats and reach to make that their plan. They're essentially goldfishing against most decks. I can't even tell if Esper is doing well by statistical chances (sheer number of players) or by actually being a good deck. Without any major shakeups, I don't know how control is ever going to be more consistent than these decks, at the moment.
I am definitely of the same mind as the OP, but before we reinvent the wheel with discussions about grixis' strengths and weaknesses in the current standard, I would urge you to read the very thorough thread on Grixis Control in the Standard Established thread. You will see all the arguments discussed here in detail from those of us who have been playing grixis the entire season, our results from that testing, and all the different deck tech that have been attempted.
Rakdos return is the only great card red offers for control, making it a lousy option compared to white. All the other stuff like izzet charm, turn/burn etc. is stuff you wouldn't be running anyway.
Anger of the gods and mizzium mortars are both ok but anger misses too much now. When a 1/4 is part of aggro you don't want to be running a card like anger..
Even rakdos return is not that awesome for control as it's just inferior to revelation. Some cases in control mirrors rakdos return will do better but revelations is great against aggro too while rakdos is mediocre there.
Azorius charm, verdict, elspeth, detention sphere and revelation VS anger and rakdos return is what you really come down to when testing it. A ton of mediocre options is not as useful as just a few great ones when deciding on colors. Spot removal plenty in black already. I also believe esper has better mana.. Esper vs azorius is a more relevant choice really.
Rakdos return is the only great card red offers for control, making it a lousy option compared to white. All the other stuff like izzet charm, turn/burn etc. is stuff you wouldn't be running anyway.
Anger of the gods and mizzium mortars are both ok but anger misses too much now. When a 1/4 is part of aggro you don't want to be running a card like anger..
Even rakdos return is not that awesome for control as it's just inferior to revelation. Some cases in control mirrors rakdos return will do better but revelations is great against aggro too while rakdos is mediocre there.
Azorius charm, verdict, elspeth, detention sphere and revelation VS anger and rakdos return is what you really come down to when testing it. A ton of mediocre options is not as useful as just a few great ones when deciding on colors. Spot removal plenty in black already. I also believe esper has better mana.. Esper vs azorius is a more relevant choice really.
I think red offers the best tools for beating other control decks: counterflux and slaughter games (and maybe chandra as a 4 mana draw a card every turn?, probably still better than elspeth in a control game (where else are downfalls going to be used)) Your finisher would be the standard aetherling, which is essentially immune to the normal removal tools, and no control deck really has a good answer when it's backed with protection (red gives you answers to pithing needle, and most control decks aren't going to pithing needle aetherling anyway (shuts off their own)).
The problem with trading red for white is against the aggro/midrange decks (which compromise the majority of the field). Basically, if your entire meta is esper, grixis would probably dominate.
I think red offers the best tools for beating other control decks: counterflux and slaughter games (and maybe chandra as a 4 mana draw a card every turn?, probably still better than elspeth in a control game (where else are downfalls going to be used)) Your finisher would be the standard aetherling, which is essentially immune to the normal removal tools, and no control deck really has a good answer when it's backed with protection (red gives you answers to pithing needle, and most control decks aren't going to pithing needle aetherling anyway (shuts off their own)).
The problem with trading red for white is against the aggro/midrange decks (which compromise the majority of the field). Basically, if your entire meta is esper, grixis would probably dominate.
Esper decks don't run as much Aetherling anymore. It's more Elspeth or Blood Baron.
Red unfortunately loses big sweepers (besides Mortars) that Esper has on a permanent and on an uncounterable spell.
Chandra in control is not where you want to be. What happens when you exile your aetherling on turn 5? What happens when you flip counterflux?
True, true. Probably the only control viable walkers in standard right now are jace, vraska, ashiok, and elspeth. BUG actually has potential as a possible color combination, but again, the problem is that it preys on the control decks and isn't very good against aggro.
I've recently tested some Grixis control against some buddies because of the Dutch Nationals which ones of my friends was qualified for and it was a disaster. I could only win from aggro decks consistently
Both WU control and Esper Control are doing well. The reasons are;
* Detention Sphere; Catches all. Good against aggro, midrange and control, almost never dead. There is no other removal spell that comes close for control.
* Divine Verdict; the best swiper. Anger is nice, Mortars is nice, but this just says 'wipe', while the others say 'you may need an extra spell or two to actually clear the board'.
* Sphinx's Revelation; the one that lets control get ahead and win.
There are no suitable replacements for these cards and the other decks are strong enough so that you NEED cards of this quality to beat them. Sure, you can make a Grixis control deck that does just as well as WU or Esper against aggro, but you will lose a lot against midrange and control. Or you can make a Grixis deck that does well against control, but it will die against aggro.
It simply doesn't have all the necessary tools to compete right now. Perhaps next set...
Enter Grixis. I feel that Grixis, right now, has a favorable matchup against some of the midrange decks and has some incredible options against esper. I'd like to discuss some of the benefits and drawbacks of removing white for red in today's control builds.
Removing white gets rid of a lot of nice cards. We'll need to say goodbye to great controlling cards like Sphinx's Revelation, Supreme Verdict, Azorius Charm, Sin Collector, and Detention Sphere. We also need to leave behind threats like Elspeth, Sun's Champion, Obzedat, Ghost Council, Blood Baron of Vizkopa, and Angel of Serenity. Those are some mighty big shoes to fill.
They are not, however, without their replacements. Anger of the Gods, and possibly Mizzium Mortars are both outstanding sweepers. Anger comes down a turn earlier and takes care of things like Voice of Resurgence and Chandra's Pheonix for good. Mortars has a double use as a nice spot removal spell for problems like Blood Baron and Stormbreath Dragon, (two of the biggest threats to control are threats because of their protection abilities) and can be a late-game sweeper if threats get out of hand later in the game. Supreme verdict, I will admit, is better in a vacuum, but, because I've often been seeing it played to only eliminate one creature at a time, I think the meta has shifted to make a plethora of spot removal a better option.
Azorius charm is great, don't get me wrong, but Esper players, tell me, how often do you use the bounce method instead of just cantripping? How does this ratio compare to how often you used it before Theros?
Grixis gives us access to Turn // Burn, which in my opinion is a highly underrated card. For five mana it can take care of nearly any creature at instant speed, and for three mana and that Frostburn Weird/Omenspeaker you played last turn it gets the job done well as well.
We also get Dreadbore, if you find yourself needing to kill planeswalkers and creatures way too much.
Grixis also gives us access to one of the best counterspells vs. control (and possibly the biggest reason it is a good idea to move to grixis/america control) : Counterflux. Control vs. Control games can go long enough to leave counter backup for your threats, so they don't get countered. This card is the answer. It helps ensure your threats will get down and stay down while your opponent's won't. You can still run dissolve, but having access to this card is a huge boon. It's one of the best defenses against Aetherling as well.
Lastly, Rakdos's Return is quicker, can take out planeswalkers, and is much more devastating to a control/midrange player than a resolved Revelation. Playing this after they tap out for elspeth, killing elspeth and their hand at the same time is just glorious (provided you can deal with a few 1/1s until the next turn) and as long as they don't topdeck a new Revelation you will have crippled them for the remainder of the game. Add thoughtseize to the mix to remove counters before the Return and you have a very devastating combo.
If you want threats, you still have Aetherling, but you can also grab [Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius[/CARD], who you'll laugh at and say "Dies to doomblade" at first but then realize his power as you've got 8 cards in hand and they have 0. Very good way to start refilling your hand after a big return. You can protect him with Far and Away if you really want to get technical.
Opportunity is an adequate replacement for revelation.
I don't have a Detention Sphere replacement for you at the moment, nor does Grixis have lifegain. I feel though, in this meta, it isn't as necessary.
What do you think? This is meant to be a discussion starter, so please, if you have any thoughts on the matter feel free to say so.
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Control players want to match answers to the opponent's threats, grind out games through card advantage, and seal games with tons of mana coupled with a finisher (be it slow or fast). Grixis vs Esper is really essentially "Red vs White", and the choices it presents really define the kind of game your deck wants to play. Anger of the Gods and Mizzium Mortars are damage based removal, which is usually quite solid. However, such removal is generally more inconsistent then "destroy all" or "exile all" effects that we have in white (Merciless Eviction, Planar Cleansing, Supreme Verdict).
Detention Sphere is equally tasked with permanent removal of Voice of Resurgence and Chandra's Phoenix. A plethora of spot removal is primarily in the color Black, which both Esper and Grixis are capable of supporting (Doom Blade, Hero's Downfall, Far // Away, Devour Flesh, Ultimate Price) The spot removal issue is not one that is addressed by switching to Grixis, it just means you need more spot removal in your decklist.
One of the reasons Azorius Charm is outstanding lies in it's cantrip mode. It means the card is never a dead card, and can be used to see another card deeper into your deck (whether that means finding another answer to match to a threat, making your next land drop, or picking up a win condition). The card was used as removal in the time of Nephalia Drownyard because there was far more permanence to it's removal side. Now the mill options are far less viable in control (the only semi-playable one I can think of is Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver), and so the mode has slightly less relevance. It does not make the Charm a worse card though.
Turn // Burn is a card that has slightly more relevance to the metagame now that Indestructible is an ability rather than a card characteristic. However, it does not have much more efficiency than a card like Curse of the Swine or Rapid Hybridization. It is more effective at taking care of troublesome abilities (Angel of Serenity, for example), but the amount of times an ability that you need to remove before removing the card itself are few and far between. Turn // Burn is, on it's best day, a conditional 2-for-1. On it's worst, it's 5 mana spot-removal or a 2 mana Shock. I don't think this card is a reason to sacrifice white.
Dreadbore is essentially a slower Hero's Downfall, and it doesn't allow you to stay untapped or react at the end of an opponent's turn.
I absolutely agree that Counterflux is a trump in counterspell wars. I myself have not experienced a counterspell war in quite some time, and I don't know how often the mana cost might pose itself as an issue, but I know for a fact that counterflux was outstanding in Pre-Theros American Midrange/Control. However, it's ability to outclass every other counterspell is a conditionally good thing. As a counterspell, it is strictly worse against any kind of deck that is primarily creature based or does not run counterspells. It is equally bad against Savage Summoning (though Essence Scatter is worse than other counterspells because it cannot counter the Savage Summoning itself), but it costs an additional colored mana. Counterflux is best when you're having a stack war, and a war on the stack usually means 2 decks that make use of a lot of instants. Meaning it needs to both fit your deck, and play well against the opponent's deck. Dissolve is strictly better than Counterflux against every deck besides a control deck.
Rakdos's Return is not a control deck's card, generally. It is not a finisher unless you can cast it for the full 20 (or whatever life total your opponent is at), and as such it has to be coupled with a strong board presence. That is why it's hayday was when Jund was a dominant force in standard. Jund consistently produced threats that required multiple or specific answers and then could just tear the control player's hand to pieces while they were looking for those answers (or once they tapped out to play them). Rakdos's Return is very powerful, but you have to keep in mind that you aren't actually winning the game with that card alone most of the time. Also, it is stone-cold terrible against aggro.
Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius was the finisher of choice in many American Control builds pre-Theros. He is a strong card in general, but as the meta tends towards larger amounts of instant-speed spot-removal, he looks worse than a threat that has natural protection against some form of spot removal (Pro-color, Self-exile/return, Indestructible, non-creature). I agree that he can generate card advantage when you slam him with a bunch of extra UR mana, and he is indeed a finisher, but he is not strictly better than any other option in white.
In the last part of the OP, we come to what is essentially the overarching issue of Esper vs Grixis.
Opportunity is not a suitable replacement for Sphinx's Revelation. There is no lifegain to assist with aggro matchups, and there is nothing as "all-encompassing" as an "exile target nonland permanent and all other permanents with the same name". Grixis cannot continuously generate card advantage at the rate that Esper can, and it's threats are more easily dealt with. More of Grixis Control's spells are sorcery speed. It's one true "trump" card is only strictly better in control matchups, and it is only one card. Grixis's answers to threats are more conditional and specific than Esper's.
TL;DR
If you want to play competitively, Esper has more instant speed answers that respond to a greater amount of threats than Grixis does. Also, Sphinx's Revelation is too good to take out of control, and Rakdos's Return is not a true finisher in a control deck. Grixis is a change, and can be refreshing, but it's conditional answers fall well short of the standard set by Esper. Esper's card-pool will always be better for control than Grixis.
Theres not enough pros to give up playing all the best UW cards for burn and removal. It might be different but its miles away from being on the same competitive level. The incentives to play Red with UB instead of White arent there at the moment since theres no real bomb that the deck can play.
I forget who said it but I remember a pro talking about the strength of the U/W core being that you can be in a situation where any other deck would 100% lose but if you're playing Sphinx's Revelation and Supreme Verdict you're only really one topdeck away from being a huge underdog to being a huge favorite. Also there's no good instant speed card draw for grixis and elspeth is really insane for a control deck since it basically does everything you'd really want.
Comparing the decks the only thing grixis has really going for it is counterflux IMO, rakdos's return is a cool card but it doesn't necessarily win you the game the same way a revelation will and it's not the same kind of "oh look I win" top deck late game either.
1) Yes, Grixis only has Mortars, Anger of the Gods and I'll even consider Ratchet Bomb as opposed to Verdict, Merciless Eviction and *cough* Planar Cleansing *cough*. But you forget the stupid amount of options of removal available by adding red (dont forget, Grixis can use blue and black spells too!)
Far/Away
Devour Flesh
Izzet Charm
Counterspells! (they still exist? essence scatter, negate, counterflux, dissolve, syncopate, psychic strike, dispel, swan's song)
turn/burn
doom blade
ultimate price
dreadbore
hero's downfall
you can basically kill anything for cheap. which brings me to my next point -
2. sphinx's revelation is nice but NOT necessary. with the cheap removal and anger of the gods and ratchet bomb, the lifegain is nice but it doesnt matter as much. post-aggro decks are SLOW outside of maybe mono red (which is easy to spot remove all day) or something like GW. If you have something like Jace 4.0 and Opportunity (which is a grrrreat card) it is more than enough steam.
3) for everything else there is duress, thoughtseize and counterspells
I agree with the idea. Sphinx's rev in the control mirror has become much less important, and it's still relevant in the aggro MU but it's just another spell that counters them.
That being said... usually the response to Sphinx's Rev is to either counter it, make them discard it, or go under it (aggro). It can be answered, but it's still a card. And it doesn't change the fact that in most of these situations you resolve it for significant enough cards/life and it's game-winning. If you are replacing it, you need a good spell on the other side to replace it with.
I think the argument regarding Sphinx's Rev is similar to the argument regarding Olivia in Jund last year. A lot of people made the same points that everyone has answers for Olivia and ways to deal with Olivia. But at the end of the day, if you untap with Olivia against any deck but control, you've gained a huge advantage.
Of course return is bad against aggro. I would not play any (maybe one copy depending on the meta) mainboard, but having it as an option against control is huge.
Think back to Jund using Return. A resolved Return was not exactly game over then because they could topdeck a myriad of cards and get back in the game. Here, they have to topdeck Revelation the turn after or they're done. There's also thoughtseize and duress to make sure it doesn't get countered, and since its one mana, it doesn't make the return any worse.
I know in a vacuum Grixis isn't as good as Esper right now. I'm trying to argue that a switch to red can give the tools needed to take down Esper and midrange strategies in this meta.
When I said Opportunity is a suitable replacement I meant that it's decent enough to be the big card drawing spell in the deck. It's nowhere near revelation, but if we can't use revelation its the next best thing.
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You are stating the problem, with running Grixis over Esper, right in this post. Rakdos's return is not good against aggro, while Sphinx's revelations is good against aggro. Aggro can tack on more damage faster than Grixis can wipe, counter, or kill creatures and without any suitable lifegain style card Grixis just crumbles. As someone else mentioned Grixis needs a Cruel Ultimatum-like card which gains you life.
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Dropping blue means you lose out on Turn // Burn, Instant speed draw, Far // Away, and many great wincons. What are the Rakdos wincons? How do you win the game?
EDIT: @broodwarjc I am aware. I'm just saying that in a meta with not very great aggro and lots of control and midrange, Sphinx's Revelation is less appealing and Rakdos's Return is more appealing than in an aggro-heavy meta.
Grixis/rakdos isn't esper and shouldn't try to emulate esper's game plan of being a stone wall, because esper just has better tools available for that plan. Rakdos and grixis are far more tempo-oriented and particularly excels in forcing stumbles (with thoughtseize) and then punishing those stumbles. Due to esper's mana base, they basically play the entire game a turn behind. That's okay when you have verdict and sphinx's rev to lean on, but it's fatal to grixis.
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This simply isn't true. Having red gives us options to cheap removal (in addition to the ton we already have). I feel like whenever I am playing against aggro it is almost an auto-win. Just side out discard/expensive counters for more cheap removal. The only tools aggro have are brave the elements, boros charm and a couple of protection from X creatures, which sac spells, split cards (which can be monocolored against pro x creatures), anger of the gods, ratchet bomb, etc get around.
I dont know if you havent noticed, but in this format, except for esper, most 3 color decks arent on top of this format. Grixis only has 1 scry land meaning its mana base isnt very good. The gates are pretty bad to run in an control deck and without any life gain, the shock lands are going to make you take too much damage. Going 1 for 1 cant take you the distance. Anger of the Gods isnt as good as Verdict and Ratchet Bomb is too situational to do what you need it to do always.
I use esper and many times one Verdict or playing a bunch of removal cant always put the game away on its own unless whoever im playing is bad or they get a terrible hand. Its usually stabilizing with Elspeth or late game sphinxs rev gaining too much life and the overwelming card advantage that puts the game away. Theres too much reach in the format to where card advantage isnt enough to stablize. , Not only is their burn, but you got things like Thassa, Gray merchant, mogis marauder and Mistcutter hydra that can easily sneak in wins when you dont have enough life.
I hate to say it but the UWx plan is where control wants to be right now in terms of competitive play if your trying to go that route. Theres no real reason to be using blue with Red and Black since the mana base is better with RB. The thing even with RB that Ive talked to players who have used that deck is that it suffers from the same reasons why Grixis wouldnt be good and its that it cant stabilize too well. Adding in worse mana just to draw cards isnt going to fix any of the decks problems.
Having your sweeper not kill essentially any of the major creatures (although silver bulleting voice) is a real problem. You deal with the ultra aggressive decks, at the cost of having an essentially useless sweeper against any of the mid range decks (no green creature cares, and desecration demon doesn't either), and a sweeper even worse against esper than verdict (at least verdict might hit a blood baron). Essentially, there's a significant list of commonly played creatures that anger fails to deal with. While verdict is not great in all matchups, it's at least a 4 mana remove a creature. Anger can fail to do this.
If sphinx's rev was blue sun's zenith, no one would be playing esper either. Especially with the devotion decks ways to get around counter/spot removal (stabilizing to die to a top deck mogis/gray merchant or gray merchant whip activation is not exactly the best place to be in). Drop whatever you want, none of the devotion decks care if you're at 5 life.
Grixis has the benefit of absolutely crushing esper (slaughter games/counterflux), but it handles big aggro worse than esper, and aggressive aggro slightly better than esper (still terribly).
I've wanted grixis control to work for so long, but without the lifegain you just can't hold out against many of the current decks.
I agree with this, but when I tried it, I just felt like I'm playing a worse devotion deck with a more volatile mana base.
Plays a Frostburn weird. Go ahead come at me..
anger of the gods, essence scatter, syncopate, shock, magma jet, turn/burn, Izzet charm, izzet staticaster.... + black removal.
You can tune your deck for aggro.
We are a spot removal deck... We can kill the things that give devotion as well as a mono black deck can.
Having said that... I get the feeling you are right... My deck is putting up a fight but its not winning as much as I'd like. It was actually way better right at the start of the format. Devotion decks use too many non creature perminates.
Mono black has two things grixis doesn't have... 1. Life gain... Gary... 2. Free wins Turn two pack rat.
Esper has Detention sphere and Sphinx's Rev... everything else can be replaced in grixis.
Grixis has to work for everything.
I am just sitting pretty and waiting for the next set.. I only have enough money to invest in 1 deck. I actually played this deck last season and since most of my win cons were still in standard I just stuck with it and changed the lands and support spells.
I'd really like better card filtering... preferably on a 1 mana blue sorcery... but with all the scry around... I don't know. UR scry land would go a long way to improving the deck.
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Ral Zarek and izzet charm are massively underrated. And you should take another look at some izzet cards.
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Ral zerek is great, but I like him better in a non control deck. If you can't effectively use the +1 to play/force threats, it's not worth it. For izzet, unfortunately, Niv-mizzet isn't blood baron/elspeth, and augury isn't fact or fiction.
I think the two biggest issues are this. Anger, in a pinch, cannot necessarily 1for1 a creature you don't want to deal with. And the biggest issue is that you can stabilize, but a lot of times you can't get out of reach range. There have been many games that I didn't have the cards to answer those couple of possible topdecks that wins the opponent the game.
At least with the current season, control decks don't have to deal with undying and hexproof...
There's a lot of people that are brewing with what you just said. I wish hero's downfall wasn't so prevalent because I'd love to go chandra, jace, and elspeth for fun.
In general, going UW/x with detention spheres makes the mono-b splash green match up difficult (golgari charm and abrupt decay can be painful). I've found that you usually have no good answers to DD in general, charm on whip targets is still a loss for you.
For RUW, morters/helix tend to be good removal (morters hits a lot of the relevant targets azorious charm misses), of course, you're looking at some bad options against DD. I definitely like wear/tear hitting whip/connections. That's probably an unrecoverable tempo loss for them.
If you're going bant, it might make sense to go advent of the wurm (it can serve as both removal and a finisher). I like bant for having skylasher's in the side (Mono-U matchup is usually sad). Beats tidebinder mage/master, blocks spectre all day.
What I've found with control in the past block and this block, is it really comes down to do you have the right removal at the right time. Like my previous example, hexproof vs undying. Verdicting 2 strangleroot geists is mindnumblingly terrible, but on the other hand, having pillar/az charm when your opponent drops geist of saint traft is also a terrible feeling.
I feel a similar feeling with the current removal suite helix/morters/downfall/a bunch of other black removal (price, far//away, dreadbore, warped phisique). They have this weird cyclic relationship where some creatures ignore a certain removal spell, and need the other kind, and you're hoping jace/sphinx gets you to both. Downfall vs baron, helix vs stormbreath, any spot removal vs reaper, az charm vs any of the previous 3, red spells vs DD, etc. Not to mention the very few ways to deal with an enabled god. That's why, so far, it seems people just keep shoving different amounts of different types of removal and hoping for the best. All the colors have answers, the question is will you have it at the right time? With the terrible filtering/draw choices, a lot of times that answer seems to be no.
And then, after teching for all this, you get blown out by boros charm against w/r or rootborne defenses against g/w when you get paired against them.
It's difficult to maintain the early game 1 for 1 answer/threat parity without cheap filtering (which I don't even know if we'll ever see again).
I hate to be like this because I love playing control, but it seems like so much of the current format is determined by the right removal draws. It seems better to just play as many threats on the table and ask your opponent, do you have az charm against my blood baron, helix against my polukranos, downfall against my thassa? Yes -> grats on your loss. No -> what if I play another?
Mono U and Mono B, especially, have the threats and reach to make that their plan. They're essentially goldfishing against most decks. I can't even tell if Esper is doing well by statistical chances (sheer number of players) or by actually being a good deck. Without any major shakeups, I don't know how control is ever going to be more consistent than these decks, at the moment.
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Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsAnger of the gods and mizzium mortars are both ok but anger misses too much now. When a 1/4 is part of aggro you don't want to be running a card like anger..
Even rakdos return is not that awesome for control as it's just inferior to revelation. Some cases in control mirrors rakdos return will do better but revelations is great against aggro too while rakdos is mediocre there.
Azorius charm, verdict, elspeth, detention sphere and revelation VS anger and rakdos return is what you really come down to when testing it. A ton of mediocre options is not as useful as just a few great ones when deciding on colors. Spot removal plenty in black already. I also believe esper has better mana.. Esper vs azorius is a more relevant choice really.
I think red offers the best tools for beating other control decks: counterflux and slaughter games (and maybe chandra as a 4 mana draw a card every turn?, probably still better than elspeth in a control game (where else are downfalls going to be used)) Your finisher would be the standard aetherling, which is essentially immune to the normal removal tools, and no
controldeck really has a good answer when it's backed with protection (red gives you answers to pithing needle, and most control decks aren't going to pithing needle aetherling anyway (shuts off their own)).The problem with trading red for white is against the aggro/midrange decks (which compromise the majority of the field). Basically, if your entire meta is esper, grixis would probably dominate.
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Esper decks don't run as much Aetherling anymore. It's more Elspeth or Blood Baron.
Red unfortunately loses big sweepers (besides Mortars) that Esper has on a permanent and on an uncounterable spell.
True, true. Probably the only control viable walkers in standard right now are jace, vraska, ashiok, and elspeth. BUG actually has potential as a possible color combination, but again, the problem is that it preys on the control decks and isn't very good against aggro.
Not to mention the lifegain, which is highly relevant when there's a bunch of grey merchants and/or fanatic of mogis.
Both WU control and Esper Control are doing well. The reasons are;
* Detention Sphere; Catches all. Good against aggro, midrange and control, almost never dead. There is no other removal spell that comes close for control.
* Divine Verdict; the best swiper. Anger is nice, Mortars is nice, but this just says 'wipe', while the others say 'you may need an extra spell or two to actually clear the board'.
* Sphinx's Revelation; the one that lets control get ahead and win.
There are no suitable replacements for these cards and the other decks are strong enough so that you NEED cards of this quality to beat them. Sure, you can make a Grixis control deck that does just as well as WU or Esper against aggro, but you will lose a lot against midrange and control. Or you can make a Grixis deck that does well against control, but it will die against aggro.
It simply doesn't have all the necessary tools to compete right now. Perhaps next set...
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