RDW is tough. Really tough. I've found we just need to SB in a ton of spot removal, trade them as best we can, and try to land a prog/aetherling
I have to respectfully disagree with RDW being tough, it feels like an even to favorable match-up. The only time it can get tricky is distinguishing between RDW and mono-red devotion since they both run some similar cards and you have to play against them differently.
Against RDW, good players will sacrifice some tempo to make you overcommit with a sweeper (as stated by some earlier). In that same vein, I think it's best to just sacrifice card advantage you otherwise would have had to disrupt their tempo, that plan works out for me pretty well. I don't mind committing an entire far // away for a single cackler or just plain killing off their threats in favor of committing resources to card draw. For example, I like to focus on ticking jace up to 8 rather than going for his -2 since that puts them on a short clock while disrupting their tempo at the same
Mill with psychic spiral and steam algur? But if I'm not playing EOTSAYL? I'm running a list pretty much like cipher's list on page 49
I only cut 2 Ætherling and 2 Dissolve for 2 Ratchet Bomb and 2 Nightveil. I had the playset of Weirds in the board, but I never drew them against mono red early and still managed to win. It's possible that my list is weak to mono red specificaly, as I haven't played the deck in a while and I'm siding 12 cards against Control while only bringing in 4 against Mono red. I just didn't want weirds against any other deck and figured the RDW was going out of popularity. It definitely isn't on MODO.
You could definitely start with cutting Gainsay for Weirds. That card was just me looking for percentage points against mono blue. Pretty narrow.
Against RDW, good players will sacrifice some tempo to make you overcommit with a sweeper (as stated by some earlier).
This is also true. Crummy players are attracted to mono red and they play into your sweepers, whereas talented players will game you into resolvinig their Burning Earth and whatnot. Anger is much better against the scrub players whereas bringing in Hero's Downfall is relevant against the players who try to tempo you out with RDW. I would consider boarding out Dissolve based on expectations.
I got my hands on a third Jace, AoT so I'm putting him in. I took out Ashiok because I don't believe he really does anything for me when played. He usually always ends up dying one way or another making it feel like I wasted my turn I played him. I'm probably doing it wrong lol.
I really like the list elMochaLatte put up in the previous page with Quicken, I knew Quicken should be played in Grixis with our powerful sorceries, but the idea was shut down pretty early on in the forum. I will gladly test Quicken.
Updated List:
Deck I played this FNM had 3 Doom Blades main, 2 Ashioks main. 3 Master of Waves SB.
This FNM I had trouble with:
W/B deck and Obzedat, Whip, Soldier of the Pantheon. I wasnt sure how to SB against this deck properly.. he beat me down with soldier for a long time until I drew a Doom Blade, then laid Obzedat afterwards which killed me.
I did great against G/W deck sweeping him. He got off to a fast start curving really well, but my Frostburn Weirds (2) had him blocked then I laid down a Thassa. He tapped out for more dudes to which I played Anger on my turn and swing in. Game 2 I sided in my 3 Master of Waves which I got 6 tokens off of and he then scooped.
So far I'm happy with how it performed and hope that the 2 Quicken help me so I can Quicken into a Dreadbore for Obzedat next time. I'm unsure about the Steam Augury without Psychic Spiral though. I'm probably wrong lol.
Thanks for the great ideas and I'm happy Quicken is being discussed.
I only cut 2 Ætherling and 2 Dissolve for 2 Ratchet Bomb and 2 Nightveil. I had the playset of Weirds in the board, but I never drew them against mono red early and still managed to win. It's possible that my list is weak to mono red specificaly, as I haven't played the deck in a while and I'm siding 12 cards against Control while only bringing in 4 against Mono red. I just didn't want weirds against any other deck and figured the RDW was going out of popularity. It definitely isn't on MODO.
You could definitely start with cutting Gainsay for Weirds. That card was just me looking for percentage points against mono blue. Pretty narrow.
I was doing -2 read the bones for 2 ratchet bombs and an Aetherling for the 4th Dreadbore since I don't have Heroes Downfall. I'm already playing the 2nd Ashiok on the 3rd read the bones spot.
Last night I did 1-1-2 at FNM:
BG agro (valrolz, loleth, dryad, dreg mangle, experiment one) 1-1
on the 3rd game he played 2 pithing needles on the first two turns for jace and ashiok, I sided in the ratchet bombs but they didn't came before timeout.
RDW 1-2 (lost, won, lost)
If I had +1 jace instead of -2 I would get the g3... Chandra's Phoenix is a real nightmare. Maybe the specters will do some work with them...
RDW 1-2 (lost, won, lost... again)
This list was a little bit slower than the first one, he never played a drop 1 on turn 1, but he had reckoner and burning tree different from the first one. On game 2 and 3 I had success countering 2 burning earth and exiling them with ashiok as well. But again, Chandra's Phoenix sealed the game.
URW control (lost, won, won)
Game 1 I had my hand full of spot removals and started discarding cards due to max hand size.
Game 2 and 3 he didn't had a chance, I sided in everything except ratchets and needles. Ashiok won g2 and Specter g3.
I was considering including cryptic incursion on the SB and I miss my second Rakdos' Return (1 MB).
Gameday will start in 5 hours, the 1st prize is a from the vault 20 but I don't know if I can get there...
RDW 1-2 (lost, won, lost)
If I had +1 jace instead of -2 I would get the g3... Chandra's Phoenix is a real nightmare. Maybe the specters will do some work with them...
Case in point, don't get too greedy with your card advantage, sacrifcing even a little goes a long way. This matchup just seems tough because we have a lot of choices to make, but you should be using that to your advantage. Ive won so many gamed against rdw just by + ing jace, even without seeing any sweepers
Aotg, izzet charm, jace, and dumbledore are the mvps in this matchup. Quicken does a lotta work too
Case in point, don't get too greedy with your card advantage, sacrifcing even a little goes a long way. This matchup just seems tough because we have a lot of choices to make, but you should be using that to your advantage. Ive won so many gamed against rdw just by + ing jace, even without seeing any sweepers
Aotg, izzet charm, jace, and dumbledore are the mvps in this matchup. Quicken does a lotta work too
Which card is dumbledore? haha
Also, whats the consensus on Ashiok? I've heard mixed reviews.
Undefeated at Gameday, though I only played 2 actual decks: Esper and Mono Blue.
I never drew the Sphinx out the board, so jury's still out on that one. Ashiok is still failing to disappoint, though. I know the card has all kinds of holes in it, but 3 mana is just so little. I mulled to 5 and beat Esper off Ashiok + Dissolve, which would not have happened if the card had been a 5 mana Jace. That was the card in it's weakest matchup and it was still solid. A Liliana that takes an extra turn to ultimate. I feel like it's a card that let's you play a Tempo game; not having to plan everything around dealing with your opponents entire hand. But, like most tempo cards, it can be outclassed or removed easily.
So, I'm undefeated against mono blue after several matches now; I'm going to call that one a 60/40 matchup, at least. I'm hoping to get some games against mono red in.
@Aziel: You're right about Read the Bones coming out, I was doing the sideboard off the top of my head. I think a good sideboard plan would be:
I faced 2 Mono-Black Devotion decks, one GR Monsters, and a Grixis tapout control list. I also played the other 4-0 for the playmat after we split prize, who was also Mono-Black Devotion, and he beat me I wanted that mat.
So my comments on the Mono-Black Devotion matchup is that it's actually really hard. They have 3 big enchantments (Underworld Connections, Whip of Erebos, Erebos, God of the Dead) that are devastating, and we can't get them off the board. That's what got me in the finals matchup: eventually he landed them, and I had no answers. Other then Pithing Needle, anyone got any ideas on how to remove these or shore up this matchup? In my opinion this is our hardest matchup, unless I'm missing some obvious hate cards.
GR Monsters was really easy to fight. Both games were me stalling until AEtherling landed to wreck face. Ratchet Bomb was a godsend here, as was Anger of the Gods.
The Grixis matchup was interesting. It was very well piloted, and he got me game one because I removal swamped (no, I'm not kidding, I drew 0 counters, 1 Jace, lands, and removal that wasn't dreadbore). However, games 2 and 3 were mine because I had superior counterspell coverage, and boarded in a ton for him. However, it still wasn't the easiest of games.
Anyhow, split the packs between top 2, got 23 packs, opened a Master of Waves, Thassa, Purphoros, Nylea, Xenagos, and a bunch of 5-6 dollar cards, so good day :). Anyone got any suggestions on changes I should make before tomorrow?
Also, for the record, in my style of Grixis cutting Ashiok was definitely the right idea. I didn't miss him in the slightest.
I think I'm getting somewhere with this deck - the consistency of Prophetic Prism has been awesome. It also adds up to 6 cheap can trips, making 24 lands feel like 27.
Also, with up to 7 edict effects plus an assortment of other removal, it hasn't been hard to keep the threats down to a manageable level.
With all the Whips, Arrows, Spears, Bidents and Bows out there, I am thinking of adding one Rakdos Charm or perhaps Vandalblast to my sideboard.
3-1-0 at gameday, got to top 4 and final but I lost to the same BG aggro from last FNM...
later I'll post the matches. I tested one Dumbledore MB in an AEtherling spot but during the g1 at the final match I played the AEtherling with only one land up. My opponent only had 1 black source, but he top decked a swamp and fired two removals at the aetherling... That cost me g1, g2 I got stuck at 5 lands and no hope...
I'd turn the Rakdos Charms into Ratchet Bombs. Not as strong against whip, but better win percentage in general. You could also blank the card in general with Pithing Needle, which also hits Mutavault. They only have 2 or 3 whips, so you want cards which aren't dead when they don't draw the whip.
I need to figure out how to deal with Whip that is the only deck I seem to lose against. At least that is the deck I play a lot....
Change number 1 is take out Psychic Strike for Dissolve cause the extra mill helps whip way too much.
Change 2 was going up to a 3rd rakdos charm in my SB...maybe 1 main?
Any other changes that might help my chance against Whip
Cyclonic Rift?? I love rift, it has decent value considering it has the possibility of hitting everything back to owners hand. Main use would be to bounce the whip in response to the activation when you have a counter in hand to prevent it from coming down again.
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Curse is very expensive for what it does though and requires you have those other cards to not get hit by its drawback. That and it's another dead card in the control mirror to add to the long list of dead cards you're already most likely running to hedge against aggro.
idk
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Curse is very expensive for what it does though and requires you have those other cards to not get hit by its drawback. That and it's another dead card in the control mirror to add to the long list of dead cards you're already most likely running to hedge against aggro.
idk
Requires you to have other cards?
They are other cards we're already running...
Almost all the lists have a few Anger in the Main, all it would be is adding 1 or 2 Ratchet Bombs, another card that works VS a lot of decks and has been talked about being added.
We already run 4 Weirds, some are running a few Prognostic.
Just seems to me that we have a pretty good chance that the draw back will be negated.
I mean you still probably run Far//Aways as well, and in a field running Mono Color'ed Devotion decks, not all those creatures are a problem, you Curse of the Swine a God and a Desecration Demon knowing full well you got the Anger or Ratchet Bomb or one of your Defenders out there to keep them slowed down.
We also run Jace and Ashiok in most of these lists, if I'm taking damage, I'd rather take it from a 2/2 Swine then a 6/6 Flying Demon?
I just don't know, I don't think the drawback in our deck really is a concern.
I know it looks screwy, and seems farfetched, but if you really look at most lists, we already run the stuff that makes Curse's drawback not so bad.
Maybe it's SB tech, but I don't think it's a bad option at all.
When you start basing your removal around this combo, regardless of how powerful it may be, then you're setting yourself up to draw the wrong half of your removal and just be less efficient than you could be being if you had actually good removal.
When your removal revolves around Ratchet Bombs, Rifts and Curse's, you have to ask yourself if the interaction with those cards, however powerful they may be, is worth not running better removal in the first place.
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RDW is tough. Really tough. I've found we just need to SB in a ton of spot removal, trade them as best we can, and try to land a prog/aetherling
- whhhhhaaat?
Standard Decks:
UBRGrixis ControlRBU
I have to respectfully disagree with RDW being tough, it feels like an even to favorable match-up. The only time it can get tricky is distinguishing between RDW and mono-red devotion since they both run some similar cards and you have to play against them differently.
Against RDW, good players will sacrifice some tempo to make you overcommit with a sweeper (as stated by some earlier). In that same vein, I think it's best to just sacrifice card advantage you otherwise would have had to disrupt their tempo, that plan works out for me pretty well. I don't mind committing an entire far // away for a single cackler or just plain killing off their threats in favor of committing resources to card draw. For example, I like to focus on ticking jace up to 8 rather than going for his -2 since that puts them on a short clock while disrupting their tempo at the same
I only cut 2 Ætherling and 2 Dissolve for 2 Ratchet Bomb and 2 Nightveil. I had the playset of Weirds in the board, but I never drew them against mono red early and still managed to win. It's possible that my list is weak to mono red specificaly, as I haven't played the deck in a while and I'm siding 12 cards against Control while only bringing in 4 against Mono red. I just didn't want weirds against any other deck and figured the RDW was going out of popularity. It definitely isn't on MODO.
You could definitely start with cutting Gainsay for Weirds. That card was just me looking for percentage points against mono blue. Pretty narrow.
This is also true. Crummy players are attracted to mono red and they play into your sweepers, whereas talented players will game you into resolvinig their Burning Earth and whatnot. Anger is much better against the scrub players whereas bringing in Hero's Downfall is relevant against the players who try to tempo you out with RDW. I would consider boarding out Dissolve based on expectations.
I really like the list elMochaLatte put up in the previous page with Quicken, I knew Quicken should be played in Grixis with our powerful sorceries, but the idea was shut down pretty early on in the forum. I will gladly test Quicken.
Updated List:
2 Prognostic Sphinx
4 Frostburn Weird
2 Thassa, God of the Sea
Instants
3 Far//Away
2 Steam Augury
3 Dissolve
3 Izzet Charm
2 Quicken
2 Syncopate
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Dreadbore
2 Rakdos's Return
PW
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
Lands
4 Blood Crypt
4 Watery Grave
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Steam Vents
6 Mountain
4 Island
Sideboard:
1 Master of Waves
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Doom Blade
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Negate
2 Thoughtseize
2 Slaughter Games
Deck I played this FNM had 3 Doom Blades main, 2 Ashioks main. 3 Master of Waves SB.
This FNM I had trouble with:
W/B deck and Obzedat, Whip, Soldier of the Pantheon. I wasnt sure how to SB against this deck properly.. he beat me down with soldier for a long time until I drew a Doom Blade, then laid Obzedat afterwards which killed me.
I did great against G/W deck sweeping him. He got off to a fast start curving really well, but my Frostburn Weirds (2) had him blocked then I laid down a Thassa. He tapped out for more dudes to which I played Anger on my turn and swing in. Game 2 I sided in my 3 Master of Waves which I got 6 tokens off of and he then scooped.
So far I'm happy with how it performed and hope that the 2 Quicken help me so I can Quicken into a Dreadbore for Obzedat next time. I'm unsure about the Steam Augury without Psychic Spiral though. I'm probably wrong lol.
Thanks for the great ideas and I'm happy Quicken is being discussed.
What for?
I was doing -2 read the bones for 2 ratchet bombs and an Aetherling for the 4th Dreadbore since I don't have Heroes Downfall. I'm already playing the 2nd Ashiok on the 3rd read the bones spot.
Last night I did 1-1-2 at FNM:
BG agro (valrolz, loleth, dryad, dreg mangle, experiment one) 1-1
on the 3rd game he played 2 pithing needles on the first two turns for jace and ashiok, I sided in the ratchet bombs but they didn't came before timeout.
RDW 1-2 (lost, won, lost)
If I had +1 jace instead of -2 I would get the g3... Chandra's Phoenix is a real nightmare. Maybe the specters will do some work with them...
RDW 1-2 (lost, won, lost... again)
This list was a little bit slower than the first one, he never played a drop 1 on turn 1, but he had reckoner and burning tree different from the first one. On game 2 and 3 I had success countering 2 burning earth and exiling them with ashiok as well. But again, Chandra's Phoenix sealed the game.
URW control (lost, won, won)
Game 1 I had my hand full of spot removals and started discarding cards due to max hand size.
Game 2 and 3 he didn't had a chance, I sided in everything except ratchets and needles. Ashiok won g2 and Specter g3.
I was considering including cryptic incursion on the SB and I miss my second Rakdos' Return (1 MB).
Gameday will start in 5 hours, the 1st prize is a from the vault 20 but I don't know if I can get there...
Case in point, don't get too greedy with your card advantage, sacrifcing even a little goes a long way. This matchup just seems tough because we have a lot of choices to make, but you should be using that to your advantage. Ive won so many gamed against rdw just by + ing jace, even without seeing any sweepers
Aotg, izzet charm, jace, and dumbledore are the mvps in this matchup. Quicken does a lotta work too
Which card is dumbledore? haha
Also, whats the consensus on Ashiok? I've heard mixed reviews.
2 Ætherling
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Spells (26)
2 Quicken
2 Syncopate
4 Dissolve
4 Doom Blade
3 Far // Away
3 Anger of the Gods
4 Dreadbore
2 Read the Bones
2 Thoughtflare
3 Island
5 Mountain
4 Steam Vents
2 Izzet Guildgate
4 Watery Grave
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Blood Crypt
1 Prognostic Sphinx
2 Nightveil Specter
2 Gainsay
2 Counterflux
2 Duress
2 Rakdos's Return
1 Hero's Downfall
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Pithing Needle
Undefeated at Gameday, though I only played 2 actual decks: Esper and Mono Blue.
I never drew the Sphinx out the board, so jury's still out on that one. Ashiok is still failing to disappoint, though. I know the card has all kinds of holes in it, but 3 mana is just so little. I mulled to 5 and beat Esper off Ashiok + Dissolve, which would not have happened if the card had been a 5 mana Jace. That was the card in it's weakest matchup and it was still solid. A Liliana that takes an extra turn to ultimate. I feel like it's a card that let's you play a Tempo game; not having to plan everything around dealing with your opponents entire hand. But, like most tempo cards, it can be outclassed or removed easily.
So, I'm undefeated against mono blue after several matches now; I'm going to call that one a 60/40 matchup, at least. I'm hoping to get some games against mono red in.
@Aziel: You're right about Read the Bones coming out, I was doing the sideboard off the top of my head. I think a good sideboard plan would be:
-2 Ætherling
-2 Read the Bones
-2 Dissolve
+2 Nightveil Specter
+2 Ratchet Bomb
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Hero's Downfall
The Pithing Needle is speculative, but Mutavault and Hammer may be enough targets to justify it.
Firstly, the decklist I used going in:
2 AEtherling
4 Frostburn Weird
Instants (15)
3 Dissolve
2 Doom Blade
3 Far // Away
2 Izzet Charm
3 Steam Augury
2 Syncopate
Sorceries (7)
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Dreadbore
1 Rakdos's Return
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
Lands (26)
4 Steam Vents
4 Watery Grave
4 Blood Crypt
4 Temple of Abandon
1 Izzet Guildgate
1 Rakdos Guildgate
5 Island
3 Mountain
1 Anger of the Gods
3 Counterflux
2 Izzet Charm
1 Jace, Memory Adept
2 Pithing Needle
2 Rakdos's Return
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Syncopate
I faced 2 Mono-Black Devotion decks, one GR Monsters, and a Grixis tapout control list. I also played the other 4-0 for the playmat after we split prize, who was also Mono-Black Devotion, and he beat me I wanted that mat.
So my comments on the Mono-Black Devotion matchup is that it's actually really hard. They have 3 big enchantments (Underworld Connections, Whip of Erebos, Erebos, God of the Dead) that are devastating, and we can't get them off the board. That's what got me in the finals matchup: eventually he landed them, and I had no answers. Other then Pithing Needle, anyone got any ideas on how to remove these or shore up this matchup? In my opinion this is our hardest matchup, unless I'm missing some obvious hate cards.
GR Monsters was really easy to fight. Both games were me stalling until AEtherling landed to wreck face. Ratchet Bomb was a godsend here, as was Anger of the Gods.
The Grixis matchup was interesting. It was very well piloted, and he got me game one because I removal swamped (no, I'm not kidding, I drew 0 counters, 1 Jace, lands, and removal that wasn't dreadbore). However, games 2 and 3 were mine because I had superior counterspell coverage, and boarded in a ton for him. However, it still wasn't the easiest of games.
Anyhow, split the packs between top 2, got 23 packs, opened a Master of Waves, Thassa, Purphoros, Nylea, Xenagos, and a bunch of 5-6 dollar cards, so good day :). Anyone got any suggestions on changes I should make before tomorrow?
Also, for the record, in my style of Grixis cutting Ashiok was definitely the right idea. I didn't miss him in the slightest.
- whhhhhaaat?
Standard Decks:
UBRGrixis ControlRBU
2 Prognostic Sphinx
2 Ætherling
Removal (Instants) [15]
3 Psychic Strike
3 Syncopate
3 Devour Flesh
2 Hero's Downfall
3 Far/Away
1 Rakdos Charm
Draw (Instants) [8]
3 Quicken
3 Steam Augury
2 Thoughtflare
2 Dreadbore
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Thoughtseize
1 Rakdos's Return
Mana Fixing (Artifacts) [3]
3 Prophetic Prism
Land [24]
4 Blood Crypt
4 Steam Vents
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Watery Grave
4 Island
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Pithing Needle
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Crypt Incursion
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Far/Away
1 Counterflux
2 Thoughtseize
1 Rakdos's Return
2 Doom Blade
I think I'm getting somewhere with this deck - the consistency of Prophetic Prism has been awesome. It also adds up to 6 cheap can trips, making 24 lands feel like 27.
Also, with up to 7 edict effects plus an assortment of other removal, it hasn't been hard to keep the threats down to a manageable level.
With all the Whips, Arrows, Spears, Bidents and Bows out there, I am thinking of adding one Rakdos Charm or perhaps Vandalblast to my sideboard.
later I'll post the matches. I tested one Dumbledore MB in an AEtherling spot but during the g1 at the final match I played the AEtherling with only one land up. My opponent only had 1 black source, but he top decked a swamp and fired two removals at the aetherling... That cost me g1, g2 I got stuck at 5 lands and no hope...
bye bye CHAMPION playmat :'(
Yeah, I traded mine for an Elspeth. VALUE!!!!
4 Frostburn Weird
1 Aetherling
1 Prognostic Sphinx
Spells [14]
3 Far // Away
4 Anger of the Gods
1 Hero's Downfall
3 Psychic Strike
2 Syncopate
1 Rakdos's Return
Draw (Instants) [5]
3 Steam Augury
1 Thoughtflare
1 Opportunity
2 Ral Zarek
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Jace, Memory Adept
3 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Land [26]
4 Blood Crypt
4 Steam Vents
3 Temple of Deceit
4 Watery Grave
2 Izzet Guildgate
5 Island
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
1 Jace, Memory Adept
2 Elixir of Immortality
3 Dreadbore
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Lifebane Zombie
3 Thoughtseize
1 Master of Waves
1 Rakdos's Return
I need to figure out how to deal with Whip that is the only deck I seem to lose against. At least that is the deck I play a lot....
Change number 1 is take out Psychic Strike for Dissolve cause the extra mill helps whip way too much.
Change 2 was going up to a 3rd rakdos charm in my SB...maybe 1 main?
Any other changes that might help my chance against Whip
In my list Crypt Incursion helps a lot ^^
or I'll change it for you."
________________________________________
° D E C K °
Format: T1.5
- MONOBLACK CONTROL -
B.o0°*'"H"I"R"'*°0o.B
Format: Standard
- CONTROL -
UBR EOTSAYLUBR
Format: Modern
- CONTROL -
UBR CRUEL CONTROLUBR
Co-Owner / Systems Administrator
Fail Gaming
www.FailGaming.com
Skype: Kibbelznbitz69
Cyclonic Rift?? I love rift, it has decent value considering it has the possibility of hitting everything back to owners hand. Main use would be to bounce the whip in response to the activation when you have a counter in hand to prevent it from coming down again.
Co-Owner / Systems Administrator
Fail Gaming
www.FailGaming.com
Skype: Kibbelznbitz69
I'm seeing some amazing things...
Curse of the Swine + Ratchet Bomb + Anger of the Gods seems pretty strong to me.
Also Cyclonic Rift, bouncing the tokens.
In a meta field with a lot of mono color'ed God Devotion decks, it just seems to me that Curse could be good.
We are already running Anger of the Gods, add 2 Ratchet Bombs, and I feel like Curse could be pretty amazing in dealing with those types of decks.
Also, another note:
Turning your OP's creatures into 2/2 Green Swines when we run great defense in Frostburn Weird 1/4 and some running Prognostic Sphinx at 1/5.
Between those 2 creatures, they do very well in playing defense and going offensive later.
idk
Requires you to have other cards?
They are other cards we're already running...
Almost all the lists have a few Anger in the Main, all it would be is adding 1 or 2 Ratchet Bombs, another card that works VS a lot of decks and has been talked about being added.
We already run 4 Weirds, some are running a few Prognostic.
Just seems to me that we have a pretty good chance that the draw back will be negated.
I mean you still probably run Far//Aways as well, and in a field running Mono Color'ed Devotion decks, not all those creatures are a problem, you Curse of the Swine a God and a Desecration Demon knowing full well you got the Anger or Ratchet Bomb or one of your Defenders out there to keep them slowed down.
We also run Jace and Ashiok in most of these lists, if I'm taking damage, I'd rather take it from a 2/2 Swine then a 6/6 Flying Demon?
I just don't know, I don't think the drawback in our deck really is a concern.
I know it looks screwy, and seems farfetched, but if you really look at most lists, we already run the stuff that makes Curse's drawback not so bad.
Maybe it's SB tech, but I don't think it's a bad option at all.
What would you cut to have Curse in your lists?
Counters?
Cheaper, more efficient removal?
When you start basing your removal around this combo, regardless of how powerful it may be, then you're setting yourself up to draw the wrong half of your removal and just be less efficient than you could be being if you had actually good removal.
When your removal revolves around Ratchet Bombs, Rifts and Curse's, you have to ask yourself if the interaction with those cards, however powerful they may be, is worth not running better removal in the first place.