I want to get behind it but he still dies to Supreme Verdict and sac effects. Otherwise the scary looks relevant. Maybe a 1 for me somewhere. I still like tethering too much.
I want to get behind it but he still dies to Supreme Verdict and sac effects. Otherwise the scary looks relevant. Maybe a 1 for me somewhere. I still like tethering too much.
Agreed. I've been running three with a fairly heavy sorcery count (3 AotG, 3 Dreadbore, 2 RR) and its been an amazing boon to be able to drop those bombs EOT while holding up counter mana. It's also very serviceable as the low end of the draw package.
I think we're getting close to something really, really solid. As you guys mentioned, Steam Augury finally feels reliable and a flip that's dense with answers/threats can cause the scoop right there. As elMocha's been saying for awhile...Izzet Charm compliments SA very nicely and truly turns on the last mode, by dumping excess lands. I've also been trying to hold a land for turning on the Sphinx's hexproof
I'm also thrilled with the Sphinx as a finisher. It's a slower grind, but the stability in grants by way of Scry 3 and hexproof really puts you in the driver's seat. I'm still running 2 Desecration Demon as I feel like our deck can make up for his drawbacks pretty well (mostly though, I'm just attached), and I run a singleton Thassa, but the Sphinx has without a doubt been the all-star.
I'm running a pair of Cyclonic Rifts in the board...it's versatile and also allows you to chase the dragon of Eot Rift into RR
I'm happy about where we are currently...the sorcery-heavy build seems to be very stable and it's fun as hell to play.
The Sphinx has to attack to do anything. It doesn't have Vigilance. This thing is only a blocker that wins more if and when you stabilize. I've been considering it for my sideboard but I just don't think I can do it.
The Sphinx has to attack to do anything. It doesn't have Vigilance. This thing is only a blocker that wins more if and when you stabilize. I've been considering it for my sideboard but I just don't think I can do it.
Aetherling is also a win more with a higher casting cost and reduces your available mana per turn. Sphinx seals the game because you will be drawing live from the very first swing. Cost 0 mana to protect.
I like Sphinx, pretty cool guy, but seriously, get real.
We're comparing Aetherling to Sphinx now? What have you guys been smoking.
I don't think anyone's debating that AEtherling is better once you untap with it.
But Prog sphinx does have some serious merits. It's one mana less and its protection costs no mana, so you can drop it 2 turns earlier: that's important. Also, the scry is nice to search out answers. Aswell, its 3/5 flying body means that it can block Stormbreathe Dragons, another big plus.
I still use AEtherling as a 2of wincon personally, although i'm considering going 1 and 1. But it's a perfectly reasonable discussion to have whether or not Prog Sphinx is worth playing.
However, we are talking about a build utilizing Steam Augury, where you need redundancy. Would you run 3 Aetherling in such a deck?
Yes. That's exactly my point. I think Ætherling is just that much better. We don't get Elspeth like UWx does, which is why I upped my Ætherling count to 2. I would play games against decks and as soon as a Jace died or I couldn't chain for some reason, the fact that only 1 card in my deck could be topdecked to take the game over became too much. I had no inevitability in the late game. Adding a second Ætherling cut the likelihood that my draw chains would "fizzle".
But the Sphinx? Am I better off cutting 1 Ætherling and running 1/1? The only time the Sphinx is ever better is when you don't have 6 mana. and the game is absolutely going to be decided by then. This means your life total is under duress, or the board is filling up on the other side.
If your life total is low, the Sphinx is just a 3/5 wall; the hexproof doesn't even matter because it still gets tapped. You can't attack with it the next turn, either, as they've tied it's ability to creature combat. You need to naturally outdraw your opponent to clear the board before the card can do anything but block. It's still better than Ætherling, I suppose, but that's not saying too much.
If the board is filling up and you're falling behind, the Sphinx can come down earlier, but Ætherling is likely the only card that can outright win the unwinnable game. If you're in a losing game and you draw this thing...how does that make you feel? In 3 turns you finally get Preordain? This thing has like double summoning sickness...
And honestly, the only thing that can kill these creatures is Doom Blade/Hero's Downfall/Detention Sphere. We can ignore Esper, since Ætherling is obviously insane and the Sphinx, cannon fodder, so his hexproof ability is about him letting you discard cards to counter largely dead black removal out of midrange decks. But isn't Ætherling just better against midrange?.
I really think the Sphinx just makes you better against aggro decks. But is this where you want to make concessions? I'll admit, I've considered it in the board against Selesnya and other decks, but then I consider Selesnya charm and Gruul Charm (a.k.a. Ghor-Clan Rampager).
I should probably try the card before dismissing it off-hand, but I jsut wanted to share those thoughts. It's pretty high on my list of things to get subbed in.
I like this list. I'd personally drop an Ashiok for another MB Far/Away, which would free up another spot in the board, but it looks solid.
I know you've done the math before, but can you still not support 3 Dissolve main? My mana is similar and I haven't had issues running 2. It seems to be online turn 3 with a shock most times that I've needed it. Even if not, I'm not sure how overly critical it is to have it turn 3.
@ cipher, I would personally run the sphinx over ashiok if I were to run your list but for the most part your arguments are well thought out. In my own playtesting I like the sphinx moreso against aggro and midrange. There are a few situations where the aetherling is better against midrange, but there are also some where I would highly prefer to have a sphinx, I also don't mind seeing him in multiples or in my opening hand. I like them both for the 2/1 split seeing as they both have their downfalls and merits. I just personally don't like running more than one 7 drop. They are better evaluated according to their surrounding gameplan rather than in a vacuum too
@ rogon I've got tons of questions to ask you about suggestions and changes to my list later on too!
For Gameday tomorrow, I'm thinking that I'm going to cut Ashiok.
Here's my reasoning: Ashiok is bad in our worst matchups, and he's only good sometimes. He's an inconsistency and his strength is in matchups like WG midrange, which we already do well against.
Can anyone think of a reason we desperately need him?
For Gameday tomorrow, I'm thinking that I'm going to cut Ashiok.
Here's my reasoning: Ashiok is bad in our worst matchups, and he's only good sometimes. He's an inconsistency and his strength is in matchups like WG midrange, which we already do well against.
Can anyone think of a reason we desperately need him?
Depends on your gameplan man. If he's only situational for you then I would cut him for sure. Can you post your list?
So I'm seeing lists with and without Rakdos's Return.
Whats the reasoning behind taking it out completely from MB? Right now I'm running 2 and find them useful against control and midrange. I also see lists without Dreadbore. How do you deal with a resolved PW?
As for Ashiok, I run 2 currently. I'm thinking about dropping it down to 1 if I can get my hands on a 3rd Jace, AoT.
My decklist is posted just a few pages back if you would like to look at it.
I also dropped my 1of Aetherling for a second Prognostic Sphinx, I love that guy.
@ cipher, I would personally run the sphinx over ashiok if I were to run your list but for the most part your arguments are well thought out. In my own playtesting I like the sphinx moreso against aggro and midrange. There are a few situations where the aetherling is better against midrange, but there are also some where I would highly prefer to have a sphinx, I also don't mind seeing him in multiples or in my opening hand. I like them both for the 2/1 split seeing as they both have their downfalls and merits. I just personally don't like running more than one 7 drop. They are better evaluated according to their surrounding gameplan rather than in a vacuum too
@ rogon I've got tons of questions to ask you about suggestions and changes to my list later on too!
That was my thought. I just went to 2 Ashiok, and I'm actually siding the card out against Esper, which is the number 1 matchup where Sphinx is terrible. If Ashiok is as weak as I initially imagined, I'll probably try the Sphinx.
Definitely going to be a different deck with a higher curve like that, but it should be stronger against midrange?
Interesting. I haven't decided yet, but I was considering mainboarding the Ratchet bombs. Like, what are they bad against? Against WG its a house, its decent vs RDW, decent versus monoblue, and we board them in for control usually anyways.
My apologies for the double post, I had my list a bit above but I just did some edits and I'd love some advice on whether or not this is how I should go.
I took my above list and removed the Ashioks in the MB, moved the Ratchet bombs from SB to MB, and removed the Chandras in the SB. This made my G1 agro matchup stronger while (I think) not harming any other matchups, and it opened 4 slots SB to shore up my RDW and problems like Blood Baron.
I played your initial deck a few times yesterday on MTGO, as it seemed better than other builds. And it was! I did have a few comments though:
Quicken is the real deal. I'm not sure who is so much against it - but it should be fairly obvious that it is a can-trip that enables your sorcery spells to shine. Quicken + Thoughtseize, or Quicken + Rakdos's Return at your opponent's draw step is super powerful, and it turns Prognostic Sphinx's scry 3 ability into an instant speed Ponder (without the shuffle), or Sensei's Divining Top (without putting it on top of the library). That should convince people about its usefulness.
Also, Steam Augury is working better in this deck than many other deck. Indeed, sometimes my opponent would concede after seeing my selection of cards, especially when drawing 3-4 relevant spells out of the five.
I noticed in the update that you replaced one Prognostic Sphinx with an Aetherling. I'm not sure you really need him, since in most situations I was able to win with 2 or 3 sphinxes.
Now, I do think 27 lands may be a little bit on the high side. Granted, you can replace them to Izzet Charm and Thoughtflare, but with 4 can-trips, lots of scry and draw, you are effectively running 28-29 lands. I think it would be prudent to go to 26 or even 25. If so, I would recommend 2 Rakdos Keyrune as a replacement.
As a last note, I am still terrified of enchantments. I would really like to fit in 2 Cyclonic Rift in the 75.
On quicken: Awesome! It’s cool to know that it’s working out for you and that I’m not just spouting a bunch of baseless nonsense A lot of the criticism of this card stems from the assumption on what my game-plan is. A lot of arguments against quicken come from the context of the particular game-plan that’s being executed by the arguer himself. I think that it’s a vastly underrated card and that it’s a strong contender for a grixis slot.
On steam augury: Again, a lot of the criticism on this card stems from the assumption on the game-plan and how it’s executed in the context of this card’s evaluation. My theory is that this is what pretty much always happens and that some cards are more prone to criticism than others. Instead of having critique of a game-plan, we shoot right for the top in criticism of a card, but this can only be effective when the critique of the game-plan has been set first as a baseline for evaluation of said choices.
This is also why I generally value Cipher's input since he doesn't just single out card choices, he brings in the plan in its entirety into the equation as well
It’s also really cool to know that this has been working out for you too. I would like to hear some more suggestions of card choices as well as their numbers and how they have a better or worse effect on the game-plan in general. So far, I think that we can establish that steam augury needs the following prerequisites to be played effectively (some overlap obviously)
. Card redundancy
. The cards must be good on their own
. A high density/redundancy in threats to disrupt your opponent’s game-plan or threats in themselves
. Izzet charm also fits well with this because of its early game versatility while also complimenting the high land count you’re more than likely to grab. Steam augury is a good enabler of Izzet Charm’s third mode, a lot of players are quick to cut Izzet charm due to not being able to use it profitably.
. No singletons unless they fit a similar role, (2 far // away and one Devour Flesh for example)
A couple questions for you
What card choices do you disagree with? What would you replace them with?
What match-ups did you face against?
Your thoughts on the 27 land count make a lot of sense to me, what would you cut the 27th land for and what would you replace them with? Why would the replacement serve as a better role in the game-plan? I’m going to try to go back down to 26 based on your recommendation.
@ both Rogan and Cipher: I still like aetherling personally because he serves as a fine singleton, just attacking from a different angle helps a lot against the control match-up, to an extent against midrange, and to a much lesser extent against agro. There are some situations where aetherling serves a stronger/more effective role even though I agree that prognostic sphinx is stronger as a whole. These assertions are not based on the evaluation of them in a vacuum, I’m taking everything into consideration from mana cost to board states. For example, just the flying clause on Dumbledore alone is huge since he can block a top-decked stormbreath dragon + he comes down two turns cheaper. It is true that he dies to supreme verdict and sacrifice effects but it’s also important to slam something proactive down a bit earlier so there is a trade-off in that he's soft to control. From the playtesting alone I believe that the sphinx is better against aggro and midrange (in general) while aetherling is better against control (in general) while still being pretty good against midrange but not so much against aggro, this leads me to the 2 dumbledore/1 Ling
I see that against agro you plan to stabilize with cheap removal and by playing cost-effective permanents that seek to provide great defensive capabilities while also being able to swing the tide in your favor. Ashiok is good in this build, especially with jace and frostburn weird to protect him, you can also pull ahead with some beefy card advantage. Against Control, these very same permanents also serve to apply pressure against them which is awesome.
The cards that aren’t optimized/suited to your game-plan in my opinion are
The Fourth Anger of the Gods: Because you already have strong defensive suite (Frostburn, Ashiok, Jace, and Prognostic Sphinx). I think three is the right number here since you can reliably grab on to it but you don’t want to see it in multiples too often in conjunction with said permanents. By lowering this count to three, I’m confident that you can still hold up well against agro while dedicating a slot to midrange/control. I recommend Far // Away over AOTG # 4 since it’s still fine against agro but will improve your midrange match-up significantly. I would put AOTG # four in the sideboard or just disregard it completely in this type of build
Thassa: Even with 4 frostburns and 3 Jaces, You will only see her rarely and you will even be less likely to have the devotion necessary to enable her. She doesn’t contribute to controlling the board state on her own and won’t be swinging games in your favor. I would recommend anything that’s 3cmc or less, probably izzet charm. Scry 1 per upkeep isn’t impactful enough on this own, don’t just take my word for it though, I'm sure that she has been underwhelming for you to. It's nice when she works, but it doesn't seem like she consistently works. I would run Ashiok # 4 before I run this
Thoughtflare: Steam augury is better now that your deck runs in plenty of multiples
Mana Base: I see that you’re afraid of not hitting double blue on t4 for jace by upping your island count to 3, just take the safe route and add in a single Izzet Guildgate. It has been working for me
With these changes in mind, I would run something like this to execute your game-plan a bit more smoothly
For sideboarding, these are just general rule of thumbs I like to go by
Against Mono Blue Devotion: - 3 Izzet charm + 3 Doom Blade
Against RDW: - 3 Psychic Strike – 2-3 Dreadbore. + 3 Doom Blade + 1 Far + 1 Crypt Incursion (maybe) + 1 Master of Waves
Against Midrange: Tricky, you might need AOTG still so I don’t know but I would cut at least 1 in general while adding in some number of dissolve and far // away
Against Control: - 3 Anger, -3 Far (Depends), + 4 Thoughtseize + 2 Dissolve
Otherwise it seems like a legit list man, Hope it works out smoother for you after the changes
My apologies for the double post, I had my list a bit above but I just did some edits and I'd love some advice on whether or not this is how I should go.
I took my above list and removed the Ashioks in the MB, moved the Ratchet bombs from SB to MB, and removed the Chandras in the SB. This made my G1 agro matchup stronger while (I think) not harming any other matchups, and it opened 4 slots SB to shore up my RDW and problems like Blood Baron.
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/121013_milwaukee.html its game 1.
I want to get behind it but he still dies to Supreme Verdict and sac effects. Otherwise the scary looks relevant. Maybe a 1 for me somewhere. I still like tethering too much.
4 Frostburn Weird
3 Prognostic Sphynx
2 Thassa, God of the Sea
Planeswalkers (7)
3 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
Spells (19)
3 Anger the Gods
3 Dreadbore
3 Dissolve
3 Doom Blade
2 Far//Away
3 Izzet Charm
2 Thoughtflare
4 Blood Crypt
3 Island
2 Izzet Guildgate
5 Mountain
4 Steam Vents
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Watery Grave
1 Anger the Gods
2 Counterflux
1 Doom Blade
2 Hammer of Purphoros
1 Hero's Downfall
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Shock
2 Slaughter Games
2 Thoughtseize
1 Turn//Burn
From: http://articles.deckfactory.com/growing-with-theros-standard/#sthash.if7ISTvE.dpuf
Agreed. I've been running three with a fairly heavy sorcery count (3 AotG, 3 Dreadbore, 2 RR) and its been an amazing boon to be able to drop those bombs EOT while holding up counter mana. It's also very serviceable as the low end of the draw package.
I think we're getting close to something really, really solid. As you guys mentioned, Steam Augury finally feels reliable and a flip that's dense with answers/threats can cause the scoop right there. As elMocha's been saying for awhile...Izzet Charm compliments SA very nicely and truly turns on the last mode, by dumping excess lands. I've also been trying to hold a land for turning on the Sphinx's hexproof
I'm also thrilled with the Sphinx as a finisher. It's a slower grind, but the stability in grants by way of Scry 3 and hexproof really puts you in the driver's seat. I'm still running 2 Desecration Demon as I feel like our deck can make up for his drawbacks pretty well (mostly though, I'm just attached), and I run a singleton Thassa, but the Sphinx has without a doubt been the all-star.
I'm running a pair of Cyclonic Rifts in the board...it's versatile and also allows you to chase the dragon of Eot Rift into RR
I'm happy about where we are currently...the sorcery-heavy build seems to be very stable and it's fun as hell to play.
Aetherling is also a win more with a higher casting cost and reduces your available mana per turn. Sphinx seals the game because you will be drawing live from the very first swing. Cost 0 mana to protect.
We're comparing Aetherling to Sphinx now? What have you guys been smoking.
I don't think anyone's debating that AEtherling is better once you untap with it.
But Prog sphinx does have some serious merits. It's one mana less and its protection costs no mana, so you can drop it 2 turns earlier: that's important. Also, the scry is nice to search out answers. Aswell, its 3/5 flying body means that it can block Stormbreathe Dragons, another big plus.
I still use AEtherling as a 2of wincon personally, although i'm considering going 1 and 1. But it's a perfectly reasonable discussion to have whether or not Prog Sphinx is worth playing.
- whhhhhaaat?
Standard Decks:
UBRGrixis ControlRBU
Very insightful and well thought out.
Thanks, we really needed that
This is not about Aetherling versus Prognostic Sphinx. Everyone agrees that in a vacuum, Atherling is a king.
However, we are talking about a build utilizing Steam Augury, where you need redundancy. Would you run 3 Aetherling in such a deck?
4 Thoughtseize
3 Omenspeaker
3 Dreadbore
1 Young Pyromancer
1 Mizzium Mortars
4 Xathrid Necromancer
2 Read the Bones
2 Hero's Downfall
4 Steam Augury
2 Archaeomancer
2 Clone
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Mutavault
5 Mountain
3 Swamp
3 Island
2 Watery Grave
2 Blood Crypt
2 Steam Vents
4 Doom Blade
2 Izzet Staticaster
4 Devour Flesh
1 Mizzium Mortars
1 Hero's Downfall
3 Dark Betrayal
A lot of cool interactions here with Rescue from the Underworld and CIP/Die effects
Yes. That's exactly my point. I think Ætherling is just that much better. We don't get Elspeth like UWx does, which is why I upped my Ætherling count to 2. I would play games against decks and as soon as a Jace died or I couldn't chain for some reason, the fact that only 1 card in my deck could be topdecked to take the game over became too much. I had no inevitability in the late game. Adding a second Ætherling cut the likelihood that my draw chains would "fizzle".
But the Sphinx? Am I better off cutting 1 Ætherling and running 1/1? The only time the Sphinx is ever better is when you don't have 6 mana. and the game is absolutely going to be decided by then. This means your life total is under duress, or the board is filling up on the other side.
And honestly, the only thing that can kill these creatures is Doom Blade/Hero's Downfall/Detention Sphere. We can ignore Esper, since Ætherling is obviously insane and the Sphinx, cannon fodder, so his hexproof ability is about him letting you discard cards to counter largely dead black removal out of midrange decks. But isn't Ætherling just better against midrange?.
I really think the Sphinx just makes you better against aggro decks. But is this where you want to make concessions? I'll admit, I've considered it in the board against Selesnya and other decks, but then I consider Selesnya charm and Gruul Charm (a.k.a. Ghor-Clan Rampager).
I should probably try the card before dismissing it off-hand, but I jsut wanted to share those thoughts. It's pretty high on my list of things to get subbed in.
I like this list. I'd personally drop an Ashiok for another MB Far/Away, which would free up another spot in the board, but it looks solid.
I know you've done the math before, but can you still not support 3 Dissolve main? My mana is similar and I haven't had issues running 2. It seems to be online turn 3 with a shock most times that I've needed it. Even if not, I'm not sure how overly critical it is to have it turn 3.
@ rogon I've got tons of questions to ask you about suggestions and changes to my list later on too!
Here's my reasoning: Ashiok is bad in our worst matchups, and he's only good sometimes. He's an inconsistency and his strength is in matchups like WG midrange, which we already do well against.
Can anyone think of a reason we desperately need him?
- whhhhhaaat?
Standard Decks:
UBRGrixis ControlRBU
Depends on your gameplan man. If he's only situational for you then I would cut him for sure. Can you post your list?
2 AEtherling
3 Frostburn Weird
Instants (17)
3 Dissolve
2 Doom Blade
3 Far // Away
2 Izzet Charm
3 Steam Augury
2 Syncopate
2 Turn // Burn
Sorceries (7)
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Dreadbore
1 Rakdos's Return
1 Ratchet Bomb
Planeswalkers (4)
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
Lands (26)
4 Steam Vents
4 Watery Grave
4 Blood Crypt
4 Temple of Abandon
1 Izzet Guildgate
1 Rakdos Guildgate
5 Island
3 Mountain
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
3 Counterflux
2 Devour Flesh
2 Izzet Charm
1 Jace, Memory Adept
2 Pithing Needle
2 Rakdos's Return
This is my list. I've found WG to be a really really easy matchup in it. Actually everything but RDW feels favourable.
- whhhhhaaat?
Standard Decks:
UBRGrixis ControlRBU
Whats the reasoning behind taking it out completely from MB? Right now I'm running 2 and find them useful against control and midrange. I also see lists without Dreadbore. How do you deal with a resolved PW?
As for Ashiok, I run 2 currently. I'm thinking about dropping it down to 1 if I can get my hands on a 3rd Jace, AoT.
My decklist is posted just a few pages back if you would like to look at it.
I also dropped my 1of Aetherling for a second Prognostic Sphinx, I love that guy.
Looks really tight man:) I would go
- 2 dissolve
+2 Ashiok
Or
- 2 ashiok
+ 1 far
+ 1 Dissolve
That was my thought. I just went to 2 Ashiok, and I'm actually siding the card out against Esper, which is the number 1 matchup where Sphinx is terrible. If Ashiok is as weak as I initially imagined, I'll probably try the Sphinx.
Definitely going to be a different deck with a higher curve like that, but it should be stronger against midrange?
Interesting. I haven't decided yet, but I was considering mainboarding the Ratchet bombs. Like, what are they bad against? Against WG its a house, its decent vs RDW, decent versus monoblue, and we board them in for control usually anyways.
- whhhhhaaat?
Standard Decks:
UBRGrixis ControlRBU
I took my above list and removed the Ashioks in the MB, moved the Ratchet bombs from SB to MB, and removed the Chandras in the SB. This made my G1 agro matchup stronger while (I think) not harming any other matchups, and it opened 4 slots SB to shore up my RDW and problems like Blood Baron.
Here's the final result:
2 AEtherling
4 Frostburn Weird
Instants (15)
3 Dissolve
2 Doom Blade
3 Far // Away
2 Izzet Charm
3 Steam Augury
2 Syncopate
Sorceries (7)
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Dreadbore
1 Rakdos's Return
2 Ratchet Bomb
Planeswalkers (4)
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
Lands (26)
4 Blood Crypt
1 Izzet Guildgate
1 Rakdos Guildgate
4 Steam Vents
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Watery Grave
5 Island
3 Mountain
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Counterflux
2 Devour Flesh
2 Izzet Charm
1 Jace, Memory Adept
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Rakdos's Return
2 Pithing Needle
2 Syncopate
Here's my rough SB plan:
Vs RDW:
+1 Anger of the Gods
+2 Devour Flesh
+2 Izzet Charm
+2 Mizzium Mortars
-3 Far // Away
-3 Steam Augury
-1 Rakdos's Return
Vs WG Agro
+1 Anger of the Gods
+2 Devour Flesh
+1 Izzet Charm
+2 Mizzium Mortar
-2 Frostburn Weird
-1 Rakdos's Return
-1 Steam Augury
-2 Syncopate
Vs UWx Control
+1 Counterflux
+1 Izzet Charm
+2 Pithing Needle
+2 Rakdos's Return
+2 Syncopate
-3 Anger of the Gods
-2 Doom Blade
-3 Far // Away
Vs Blue Devotion
+1 Anger of the Gods
+2 Devour Flesh
+2 Mizzium Mortars
-2 Frostburn Weird
-3 Far // Away
So what do y'all think?
- whhhhhaaat?
Standard Decks:
UBRGrixis ControlRBU
On quicken: Awesome! It’s cool to know that it’s working out for you and that I’m not just spouting a bunch of baseless nonsense
On steam augury: Again, a lot of the criticism on this card stems from the assumption on the game-plan and how it’s executed in the context of this card’s evaluation. My theory is that this is what pretty much always happens and that some cards are more prone to criticism than others. Instead of having critique of a game-plan, we shoot right for the top in criticism of a card, but this can only be effective when the critique of the game-plan has been set first as a baseline for evaluation of said choices.
This is also why I generally value Cipher's input since he doesn't just single out card choices, he brings in the plan in its entirety into the equation as well
It’s also really cool to know that this has been working out for you too. I would like to hear some more suggestions of card choices as well as their numbers and how they have a better or worse effect on the game-plan in general. So far, I think that we can establish that steam augury needs the following prerequisites to be played effectively (some overlap obviously)
. Card redundancy
. The cards must be good on their own
. A high density/redundancy in threats to disrupt your opponent’s game-plan or threats in themselves
. Izzet charm also fits well with this because of its early game versatility while also complimenting the high land count you’re more than likely to grab. Steam augury is a good enabler of Izzet Charm’s third mode, a lot of players are quick to cut Izzet charm due to not being able to use it profitably.
. No singletons unless they fit a similar role, (2 far // away and one Devour Flesh for example)
A couple questions for you
What card choices do you disagree with? What would you replace them with?
What match-ups did you face against?
Your thoughts on the 27 land count make a lot of sense to me, what would you cut the 27th land for and what would you replace them with? Why would the replacement serve as a better role in the game-plan? I’m going to try to go back down to 26 based on your recommendation.
@ both Rogan and Cipher: I still like aetherling personally because he serves as a fine singleton, just attacking from a different angle helps a lot against the control match-up, to an extent against midrange, and to a much lesser extent against agro. There are some situations where aetherling serves a stronger/more effective role even though I agree that prognostic sphinx is stronger as a whole. These assertions are not based on the evaluation of them in a vacuum, I’m taking everything into consideration from mana cost to board states. For example, just the flying clause on Dumbledore alone is huge since he can block a top-decked stormbreath dragon + he comes down two turns cheaper. It is true that he dies to supreme verdict and sacrifice effects but it’s also important to slam something proactive down a bit earlier so there is a trade-off in that he's soft to control. From the playtesting alone I believe that the sphinx is better against aggro and midrange (in general) while aetherling is better against control (in general) while still being pretty good against midrange but not so much against aggro, this leads me to the 2 dumbledore/1 Ling
I see that against agro you plan to stabilize with cheap removal and by playing cost-effective permanents that seek to provide great defensive capabilities while also being able to swing the tide in your favor. Ashiok is good in this build, especially with jace and frostburn weird to protect him, you can also pull ahead with some beefy card advantage. Against Control, these very same permanents also serve to apply pressure against them which is awesome.
The cards that aren’t optimized/suited to your game-plan in my opinion are
The Fourth Anger of the Gods: Because you already have strong defensive suite (Frostburn, Ashiok, Jace, and Prognostic Sphinx). I think three is the right number here since you can reliably grab on to it but you don’t want to see it in multiples too often in conjunction with said permanents. By lowering this count to three, I’m confident that you can still hold up well against agro while dedicating a slot to midrange/control. I recommend Far // Away over AOTG # 4 since it’s still fine against agro but will improve your midrange match-up significantly. I would put AOTG # four in the sideboard or just disregard it completely in this type of build
Thassa: Even with 4 frostburns and 3 Jaces, You will only see her rarely and you will even be less likely to have the devotion necessary to enable her. She doesn’t contribute to controlling the board state on her own and won’t be swinging games in your favor. I would recommend anything that’s 3cmc or less, probably izzet charm. Scry 1 per upkeep isn’t impactful enough on this own, don’t just take my word for it though, I'm sure that she has been underwhelming for you to. It's nice when she works, but it doesn't seem like she consistently works. I would run Ashiok # 4 before I run this
Thoughtflare: Steam augury is better now that your deck runs in plenty of multiples
Mana Base: I see that you’re afraid of not hitting double blue on t4 for jace by upping your island count to 3, just take the safe route and add in a single Izzet Guildgate. It has been working for me
With these changes in mind, I would run something like this to execute your game-plan a bit more smoothly
3 Far / Away
3 Izzet Charm
3 Psychic Strike
2 Quicken
3 Steam Augury
Sorcery (8)
3x Anger of the Gods
3x Dreadbore
2x Rakdos's Return
Planeswalker (6)
3x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
3x Jace, Architect of Thought
4x Frostburn Weird
2x Prognostic Sphinx
Land (26)
4 Blood Crypt
4 Steam Vents
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Watery Grave
1 Izzet Guildgate
2 Island
7 Mountain
1 Pithing Needle
1 Crypt Incursion
2 Dissolve
3 Doom Blade
1 Far / Away
1 Master of Waves
2 Mizzium Mortars
4 Thoughtseize
For sideboarding, these are just general rule of thumbs I like to go by
Against Mono Blue Devotion: - 3 Izzet charm + 3 Doom Blade
Against RDW: - 3 Psychic Strike – 2-3 Dreadbore. + 3 Doom Blade + 1 Far + 1 Crypt Incursion (maybe) + 1 Master of Waves
Against Midrange: Tricky, you might need AOTG still so I don’t know but I would cut at least 1 in general while adding in some number of dissolve and far // away
Against Control: - 3 Anger, -3 Far (Depends), + 4 Thoughtseize + 2 Dissolve
Otherwise it seems like a legit list man, Hope it works out smoother for you after the changes
Holy crap I never even thought about ratchet bomb, I think that it suits your plan very well. Let me know how it goes man
We mill them before they deal lethal