Grixis combines a unique array of colours and lets you go any direction with it. Almost no two Grixis Control decks are completely identical, this is because you can play the cards you want to play and still do well with the deck. The deck can be built to beat almost any metagame.
CARD OPTIONS
Key: [Staple] - Great card for us, you should seriously consider running it. [Recommended] - Good card, but there are better options available to us. [Not Recommended] - Not very good, unless a very different build. [Sideboard] - A sideboard card that you should try to run depending on your meta.
Creatures:
[Staple]Frostburn Weird: Has a big butt, doesn't die to your own Anger of the Gods, can go on the offense. Run 2-4. [Staple]Aetherling: The best finisher in Standard. Great on both offense and defense, almost impossible to kill. Play 1-2. [Recommended]Omenspeaker: A 1/3 Blocker that sets up your next draws. Play 0-3. [Recommended]Prognostic Sphinx: Can and should be used in combination with Aetherling as a back up finisher. It can protect it self and smoothen out your next draws. It can't dodge a Wrath, but not everything can be an Aetherling. Play 0-2. [Recommended]Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius: Can be used in combination with Aetherling as a back up finisher. Provides great card advantage. Play 0-2. [Recommended]Master of Cruelties: Can be used in combination with Aetherling as a back up finisher. Also a great wall. Play 0-2. [Recommended]Desecration Demon: Can be used as an alternative finisher, however it's not a very reliable blocker. Play 0-2. [Not Recommended]Lifebane Zombie: Good in midrange decks, but it doesn't do enough for us. Play 0. [Not Recommended]Spellheart Chimera: Might be okay in a more tempo version of the deck, but not a finisher for Grixis Control. Play 0. [Not Recommended]Duskmantle Seer: Can be played in certain builds, but not recommended for Control. Play 0. [Not Recommended]Stormbreath Dragon: Better in a midrange deck, but meta dependent. Good way to punish Revelation decks. Possibly a Sideboard card. Play 0. [Not Recommended]Sire of Insanity: Although good against Sphinx's Revelation, it also hurts us. Play Notion Thief before considering this. Play 0. [Sideboard]Izzet Staticaster: Great against Token strategies and aggro. Play 2-4. [Sideboard]Clone: Can be good in certain match ups. Play 0-1. [Sideboard]Notion Thief: Good against Sphinx's Revelation, can be a beater. Play 0-2.
Planeswalkers:
[Staple]Jace, Architect of Thought: Slows down Aggro, provides card advantage and gives you access to finishers. Play 4. [Recommended]Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver: Okay against Aggro where you use their creatures to block and eventually beat them with. Exiles Control's win conditions and the ultimate can wreck them. Run 0-4. [Recommended]Ral Zarek: We don't have too much to untap, unless running Rakdos Keyrune. Works with Izzet Staticaster and Ratchet Bomb post-sideboard. Can be used as removal. Ultimate would provide a lot of card advantage, if you get there. Play 0-2. [Not Recommended]Chandra, Pyromaster: Doesn't really do too much for us. The +1 isn't too relevant, the 0 ability contradicts with Counterspells and the Ultimate won't win you the game. Run 0. [Sideboard]Jace, Memory Adept: Great in the Control Mirror. Run 1-2.
Instants & Sorceries:
Card Draw: [Staple]Divination: Efficient in terms of mana cost, but is a sorcery and clashes with other spells. Play 2-4. [Staple]Steam Augury: It's no Fact or Fiction, but it does the job. Play 0-3. [Staple]Inspiration: With not much access to lower CMC draw spells and Steam Augury conflicting with running limited win conditions, this is probably the best spell to use in combination with it. Run 0-3. [Staple]Opportunity: It's the closest thing to Sphinx's Revelation Grixis has. Play 1-3. [Recommended]Quicken: Can be played in a version that needs cantrips or runs a lot of sorceries. Run 0-4. [Recommended]Read the Bones: Might be better than Divination, life loss does not go unnoticed. Play 0-4. [Recommended]Thoughtflare: Cheaper than Opportunity and digs deep, but not as good as Steam Augury. Run 0-2.
Disruption: [Staple]Thoughtseize: One of the best disruption spells every printed. Run 3-4. [Staple]Rakdos’s Return: Terrible against aggro, great vs. midrange and control. Run 1-3. [Recommended]Duress No reason to run this over Thoughtseize, unless you need copies 5-8. Run 0. [Not Recommended]Reap Intellect: Rakdos's Return is generally much better. Run 0. [Sideboard]Slaughter Games: Excellent sideboard card, helps dealing with problem permanents such as Aetherling/Assemble the Legion or helps you resolve your own finishers. Run 1-3.
Removal & Bounce: [Staple]Shock: Now that Pillar of Flame and Tragic Slip have left us, this fills our spot for the 1 drop removal, however, Magma Jet simply outclasses it. Run 0-4. [Staple]Magma Jet: Removal, sets up draws. Run 2-4. [Staple]Lightning Strike: This Standard's Searing Spear. Run 0-3. [Staple]Turn // Burn: Gets rid of almost any creature. Kills gods. Run 2-4. [Staple]Anger of the Gods: Strictly better Slagstorm, one of the reasons to play Grixis Control. Run 2-4. [Staple]Drown in Sorrow : Strictly better Infest, compare to Anger, depends on your decks mana base etc. Run 2-4. [Staple]Doom Blade: One of the best removal spells we have access to. Run 2-4. [Staple]Dreadbore: Costs 1 less than Hero's Downfall, but it's a sorcery. Run 0-2. [Staple]Hero's Downfall: Instant speed Dreadbore. Run 0-2. [Staple]Devour Flesh: Cheap efficient removal. Great against hexproof decks. Run 1-3. [Staple]Far // Away: Bounce your own creature, their creature, great against hexproof, can get rid of two threats. Very good card. Run 3-4. [Staple]Bile Blight : Harder to cast, but worth the effort. Run 0-3. [Recommended]Ultimate Price We simply have access to better removal now. Run 0-2. [Recommended]Mizzium Mortars: Early game removal, mid-late game boardwipe. Now that we have Anger of the Gods, we don't need to rely on this. Run 0-2. [Recommended]Cyclonic Rift: Another boardwipe, that takes longer to set up. Run 0-2. [Recommended]Warped Physique: Not as good in our deck as in Revelation decks. Run 0-3. [Recommended]Aetherize: Good tempo swing. Disrupts Devotion. Run 0-2. [Not Recommended]Skullcrack: We typically don't care about lifegain. Run 0. [Not Recommended]Annihilating Fire: We have access to better burn. Run 0. [Not Recommended]Whelming Wave: If this was an Instant....Run 0-1. [Not Recommended]Disperse: Cyclonic Rift is better. Run 0. [Not Recommended]Voyage's End: Cyclonic Rift is better. Run 0. [Not Recommended]Rapid Hybridization: Although it can kill most creatures, no questions asked, a 3/3 can be a pain from time to time. Run 0. [Not Recommended]Curse of the Swine: Yeah, there's a cute combo with Ratchet Bomb here, but we don't really want to deal with a bunch of 2/2's. Run 0. [Not Recommended]Searing Blood: Probably great in RDW, but not made for Grixis Control. Run 0. [Not Recommended]Gild: Costs too much. Does kill Gods though. Run 0. [Not Recommended]Fated Conflagration : We have access to both Dreadbore and Hero's Downfall, no need for this at all. Run 0. [Sideboard]Dark Betrayal: We need it for the MBD match-up, run 3-4.
Counterspells: [Staple]Syncopate: Good counterspell, exiles, can sometimes be cost for 1U, however, gets worse as the game goes on. Run 0-3. [Staple]Essence Scatter: Now that Cavern of Souls has gone bye-bye, this should definitely be in our 75. Run 3-4. [Staple]Dissolve: Strictly better than Cancel, it replaces Dissipate. Run 2-4. [Staple]Psychic Strike: Easier to cast than Dissolve, some builds may even prefer running this over it, depending on their manabase. Run 0-4. [Not Recommended]Stymied Hopes: Syncopate is going to be better 99% of the time. [Not Recommended]Cancel: Dissolve is strictly better, no reason to run this. Run 0. [Sideboard]Dispel: Great against Revelation decks, not sure if Swan Song is strictly better? Run 0-2. [Sideboard]Swan Song: See Dispel. Run 0-2. [Sideboard]Annul: Compare it to Dispel and Swan Song. Run 0. [Sideboard]Gainsay: Great against control mirror. Great against MUD. Run 2-4. [Sideboard]Negate: Probably not many reasons to run this over Gainsay. Run 0-2. [Sideboard]Counterflux: For the control mirror. Run 0-2.
Multipurpose: [Staple]Izzet Charm: Excellent multipurpose card. Kills dudes, counters non-creature spells, filters. Run 2-4. [Staple]Dimir Charm: Looking at the meta right now, it's our better Last Breath. Run 3-4. [Not Recommended]Toil // Trouble: Card draw, plus punishes Revelation decks, but we have better hate. Run 0. [Not Recommended]Blast of Genius: Too cute. Run 0. [Sideboard]Rakdos Charm: Great multipurpose sideboard card, destroys an artifact, exiles a graveyard and punishes combo. Run 0-2.
Misc: [Not Recommended]Cremate: Run 0. [Not Recommended]Wild Ricochet: As much as I like the card, there aren't too many applications for it right now. Run 0. [Not Recommended]Illness in the Ranks: Unless tokens become a thing, this is not even good enough to sideboard. Run 0. [Sideboard]Crypt Incursion: Graveyard hate, gains you life against aggro decks. Run 0-2. [Sideboard]Psychic Spiral: Anti-mill, okay in control mirror. Run 0-1.
Artifacts & Enchantments:
[Recommended]Rakdos Keyrune: Can be a good card, accelerates you, is a great blocker, and can be used on the offense. However, clashes with other spells you want to cast on turn 3. Works with Ral Zarek too. Not as good now that we don't have to deal with Thragtusk. Run 0-3. [Recommended]Underworld Connections: Almost a Phyrexian Arena. Can be abused with Ral Zarek. We often cannot deal with the life loss however. Play 0-2. [Recommended]Thassa, God of the Sea: Yet to be properly tested, but a free scry every upkeep is nothing to laugh at. Play 0-2. [Recommended]Whip of Erebos: Yet to be properly tested, but it can bring an Aetherling back and keep it for good when you exile it. Helps gain life and reuse Omenspeaker late game. Needs testing. Run 0-1. [Not Recommended]Erebos, God of the Dead: Yet to be tested, but we can't really afford the life loss. Would never be a creature. Play 0. [Not Recommended]Dimir Keyrune: It's no Creeping Tar Pit...Run 0. [Sideboard]Pithing Needle: Can stop anything from a planeswalker to a utility land. Run 1-2. [Sideboard]Glaring Spotlight: If hexproof becomes a huge thing, for now...Run 0. [Sideboard]Elixir of Immortality: Anti-Mill and for long control games. Run 0-1. [Sideboard]Ratchet Bomb: Helps Grixis answer cards it usually can't, such as enchantments. Run 1-3.
Lands:
[Staple]Island, Swamp and Mountain: Due to Sulfur Falls etc leaving and the printing of Burning Earth we need to start running a lot more basics. Run 8-12. [Staple]Blood Crypt: Run 4. [Staple]Steam Vents: Run 4. [Staple]Watery Grave: Run 4. [Staple]Temple of Deceit: Our supporting land cycle for this year. Run 3-4. [Staple]Temple of Malice: Our supporting land cycle for this year. Run 3-4. [Recommended]Mutavault: Certain lists can take advantage of a manland. Run 1-3. [Recommended] [c]Shimmering Grotto
[/c]: Enters untapped, might be smoother on the manabase for some decks. Run 0-4. [Recommended]Unknown Shores: Enters untapped, might be smoother on the manabase for some decks. Run 0-4. [Recommended]Izzet Guildgate: Until we get the Izzet Scry land, can use this.. Run 0-3 [Recommended]Rakdos Guildgate: Until we get the RakdosScry land, can use thi.. Run 0-3 [Not Recommended]Dimir Guildgate: Little reason to run over Scry land cycle. Run 0. [Not Recommended]Encroaching Wastes: With a 3 colour deck harder to maintain, and the rotation of good utility lands such as Kessig Wolf Run and Nephalia Drownyard, we don't really need it. Run 0.
Please share your ideas, your decklists and results. We can discuss cards in depth and collectively try and make Grixis Control a Tier 1 Deck! If you find any mistakes in the Primer, do let me know and I'll fix it. You may want to take a look at my old Primer which had 200+ pages of discussion; it is located here. Thanks for having a look
Thanks for the new primer. One comment is that I am not so sure Psychic Strike should be evaluated so negatively. For sure Dissolve is better, but it is harder on our mana base. If you need to have a hard counter on turn 3 (or even turn 4 if you are forced to play Temple of Deceit tapped), then Psychic Strike is better than Dissolve. I see it as our hard counter 5-8, and as a matter of fact I run 14 counters right now, with 6 more in my side-board:
I used to worry about Psychic Strike's mill property, but I haven't met many decks that try to use the graveyard effectively now.
The mana-base is currently a big issue. In your sample list you run 16 blue sources (4 cipt), 14 black sources (4 cipt) and 12 red sources. To consistently get 1UU on turn 3 for Dissolve you need around 18, and the same goes for 1RR and 1BB.
That sample decklist is kind of a joke. You plan to 1-1 them until you draw into your 1 opportunity or steam augury to get ahead? How do you plan to consistently hit your land drops without think twice or azorius charm? You have waaay too many ways to deal with creatures and not enough ways to hit lands. You really need to be playing 3-4 steam augury and 2 opportunity. Also, why no Jace, architect of thought? He could be in place or addition to steam augury, but you definitely need something so smooth out your draws besides scry 1 and prayers.
Thanks for the new primer. One comment is that I am not so sure Psychic Strike should be evaluated so negatively. For sure Dissolve is better, but it is harder on our mana base. If you need to have a hard counter on turn 3 (or even turn 4 if you are forced to play Temple of Deceit tapped), then Psychic Strike is better than Dissolve. I see it as our hard counter 5-8, and as a matter of fact I run 14 counters right now, with 6 more in my side-board:
I used to worry about Psychic Strike's mill property, but I haven't met many decks that try to use the graveyard effectively now.
The mana-base is currently a big issue. In your sample list you run 16 blue sources (4 cipt), 14 black sources (4 cipt) and 12 red sources. To consistently get 1UU on turn 3 for Dissolve you need around 18, and the same goes for 1RR and 1BB.
You're right, Psychic Strike is better than I gave it credit for. It can be our hard counter 5-8.
I know the mana base can be an issue, but honestly, in reality, even on turn 3 we're going to be casting Essence Scatter, Doom Blade and Magma Jet and not always going to need 1UU 1BB AND 1RR on turn 3, the Hero's Demise is only a 1-off in the main and you don't always want to Anger the Gods on turn 3. The only problem I see is starting with 16 life when you want to shock yourself to Thoughtseize, I want to run more basic Swamps, but that only hurts the mana base more. It is currently a work in progress ofcorse, and only testing can perfect it.
That sample decklist is kind of a joke. You plan to 1-1 them until you draw into your 1 opportunity or steam augury to get ahead? How do you plan to consistently hit your land drops without think twice or azorius charm? You have waaay too many ways to deal with creatures and not enough ways to hit lands. You really need to be playing 3-4 steam augury and 2 opportunity. Also, why no Jace, architect of thought? He could be in place or addition to steam augury, but you definitely need something so smooth out your draws besides scry 1 and prayers.
Um, yes - if you had played Grixis before rotation, you would know that we did 1-1 almost every threat, and this is when we didn't have Anger of the Gods, now we can do more than 1-1 then in some cases.
The sample decklist, the one I am currently testing, runs 15 cards that Scry! That's how I consistently hit my land drops - it really makes a huge difference.
As stated in the Primer, Jace, Architect of Thought is a staple. I am however running the Draw-Go version of the deck as opposed to the Tap-Out one and didn't see the need for him in this build.
Izzet Charm is also a great card to smoothen out draws and filter cards, against aggro you can discard cards like Thoughtseize and against control, Magma Jet.
You're right, Psychic Strike is better than I gave it credit for. It can be our hard counter 5-8.
The easier mana cost makes it better than dissolve imo
I know the mana base can be an issue, but honestly, in reality, even on turn 3 we're going to be casting Essence Scatter, Doom Blade and Magma Jet and not always going to need 1UU 1BB AND 1RR on turn 3, the Hero's Demise is only a 1-off in the main and you don't always want to Anger the Gods on turn 3. The only problem I see is starting with 16 life when you want to shock yourself to Thoughtseize, I want to run more basic Swamps, but that only hurts the mana base more. It is currently a work in progress ofcorse, and only testing can perfect it.
Simple, don't run cashseize in the main. Against control you can simply board them in for less relevant spells such as Magma Jet. Thoughtseize is a fantastic card but I cannot stress this enough, the shock IS relevant and unless you are proactively using it to push through a important spell, all you're doing is trading 1 for 1 while shocking yourself in the proces. A mana efficient trade mind you but still 1 for 1 nonetheless.
Um, yes - if you had played Grixis before rotation, you would know that we did 1-1 almost every threat, and this is when we didn't have Anger of the Gods, now we can do more than 1-1 then in some cases.
This is true, but we also ran more draw as a general rule of thumb. Augury and Opportunity in these low numbers simply aren't going to cut it, srying or not.
As stated in the Primer, Jace, Architect of Thought is a staple. I am however running the Draw-Go version of the deck as opposed to the Tap-Out one and didn't see the need for him in this build.
Jace is a house, but could prove to be very powerful even in draw go versions should the meta require it. The meta or your chosen playstyle may not even matter and he could very well end up being a staple regardless.
Izzet Charm is also a great card to smoothen out draws and filter cards, against aggro you can discard cards like Thoughtseize and against control, Magma Jet.
This I disagree with though. Looting with Izzet Charm to smoothen your draws is not a plus of the card, it is an act of desperation. Izzet Charm should be looked at as a versatile catch all card that has applications in both control and aggro MU's but can generally be sided out for superior spells if needed in game 2/3 situations.
Good job on getting the Primer going though, allot of hard work is instore for us but I believe we can make it work.
Looting is pretty bad with Izzet Charm. The only time I have found myself doing it is when I am either holding more land than I want, or more removal than I need and in both of those situations is does not always fix the issue at hand.
As for Thoughtseize in the MB or not, a big thing to keep in mind is that this color has a strange inability to deal with some permanents if they slip by. Thoughtseize patches that up well...
Building off that, so does Cyclonic Rift.
I find it strange that you are also classifying things as a Staple when we are not even into the new format and this is a deck that requires a fair amount of focus that builds off an existing format, or even discounting certain cards as SB material over MB material.
That being said, I look forward to seeing the deck flesh itself out and the primer pulling itself together a bit more as a result.
Jokes aside Rift is a fantastic value card that has applications all game round. Bouncing permanents to gain tempo or to counter the card in question on the way down simply makes it a very versatile package.
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I probably would be packing 2 somewhere in my 75 for sure, these colors have no way to answer enchantments other than countering them or taking them with Seize. Rift also let's you play around people trying to bait out counter a bit as well.
Two cards that I feel might deserve more of a mention is Pharika's Cure and Returned Phalanx.
Both have obvious applications against aggressive lists, the cure especially could prove an invaluable SB card against aggro as both a answer and a stabilizer. The Phalanx feels less good to me but the ability to switch from defense to offense could be more relevant than I'm giving it credit for.
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Wow, three draw spells? What can I possibly say about that sample decklist without either:
1) Being dishonest
or
2) Getting crap from the mods?
How do you actually produce card advantage? You know, the whole point of trading 1-for-1 in the first place? The engine behind all control decks, blue and otherwise? This is important. When less experienced players look at the thread and see that there are almost no draw spells in the sample decklist, everybody else is going to have to keep telling them that their deck can't draw cards, over and over and over again.
Not going to lie, I've been struggling numbers wise for a while now. Currently I'm on a 4/4 Steam Augury/Inspiration package but have been feeling that I either need to change my numbers a bit or include more draw, be that Thoughtflare or Opportunity.
Thoughts?
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My definite thought is that the starting place for a draw go list is 4x Steam Augury and 4x Inspiration, but I tend to think we want more draw than that, definately completely disagree with the primer's suggestions in this area.
Snapcaster Mage was used in last season's lists as a form of Card Advantage, being able to trade with one dude whilst giving flashback to something else, or sometimes being reused with a far//away, with this we would run 4x think twice and 4x alchemy.
Unfortunately we can't add cheap card draw as there isn't any that makes card advantage (i.e. net + a card), to help us with consistency early turns we have to rely on scrying, so I think we want 4+ Omenspeaker/Magma Jet to help us get through turns 1-4.
For late game Card advantage in addition to running the full 8 4 CMC draw spells we could look at 2-3 more, Thoughtflare and Oppurtunity look like the best two options to me, though the other option is Jace, I don't like tapping for him though.
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I'm a control player, because I like to reserve the right to say no.
Not going to lie, I've been struggling numbers wise for a while now. Currently I'm on a 4/4 Steam Augury/Inspiration package but have been feeling that I either need to change my numbers a bit or include more draw, be that Thoughtflare or Opportunity.
Thoughts?
The selection of instant draw spells is very poor for cmc <= 3, and as many of you have said - we need more than 8 draw spells. I'm currently looking at 10 and I feel that I might need an 11th.
The main problem is that with 10+ draw spells the chance of getting 2+ draw spells in your opening hand is pretty high, which in the end means that you need to mulligan (e.g. 3 draw, 3 land and AEtherling), since all of them are CMC 4 and up. (Another way to put this is that our net average CMC is driven too high.)
So here's my problem
I Love 2 Rakdos's Return, at least 1 Dreadbore and at least 2 Ashiok main.
Also, I really don't think that Steam Augury is an auto 4 of, I mean, I'm running 5 true win conditions mainboard so with my opponent pitching up to 4 from Steam, that leaves me with one win con >_>.
Also, there are 68 cards here, I know.
But I can't bring myself to cut any of them
Can someone give me a quick rundown on Inspiration vs Opportunity as well?
( so many requests from a single post, I'm sorry, I've been out of constructed play since mana leak was in standard.)
Yes, I am asking what to cut
Doesn't Whip also bring back Aetherlings discarded to opposing thoughtseize or steam augury? It's a decent way to insure our main threat.
I actually just realized that Aetherling can be brought back for good with Whip so it might actually be a good addition, it also helps recour Omenspeaker late game as a mana-sink, definitely something we need to test!
Simple, don't run cashseize in the main. Against control you can simply board them in for less relevant spells such as Magma Jet. Thoughtseize is a fantastic card but I cannot stress this enough, the shock IS relevant and unless you are proactively using it to push through a important spell, all you're doing is trading 1 for 1 while shocking yourself in the proces. A mana efficient trade mind you but still 1 for 1 nonetheless.
LAs for Thoughtseize in the MB or not, a big thing to keep in mind is that this color has a strange inability to deal with some permanents if they slip by. Thoughtseize patches that up well...
This is true, I wanted to try and have a better Game 1 MU against both aggro and control, but it might be a better idea to move them to the side. The things we're going to want to deal with are Aetherling and Assemble the Legion etc anyway.
This I disagree with though. Looting with Izzet Charm to smoothen your draws is not a plus of the card, it is an act of desperation. Izzet Charm should be looked at as a versatile catch all card that has applications in both control and aggro MU's but can generally be sided out for superior spells if needed in game 2/3 situations.
Looting is pretty bad with Izzet Charm. The only time I have found myself doing it is when I am either holding more land than I want, or more removal than I need and in both of those situations is does not always fix the issue at hand.
Yeah, it's not the first application of Izzet Charm, however in a build where certain cards are not great in certain match ups, such as removal vs control, you can use it for filtering.
I find it strange that you are also classifying things as a Staple when we are not even into the new format and this is a deck that requires a fair amount of focus that builds off an existing format, or even discounting certain cards as SB material over MB material.
That being said, I look forward to seeing the deck flesh itself out and the primer pulling itself together a bit more as a result.
It's just prelimery classifications, most people can agree that Aetherling is a staple, Cancel is not recommended and that Elixer of Immortality is a sideboard card. Some cards tagged as sideboard may be good in certain metas and terrible in others. It is very much a work in progress and hopefully can be perfected with the help of everyone here ^^
Two cards that I feel might deserve more of a mention is Pharika's Cure and Returned Phalanx.
Both have obvious applications against aggressive lists, the cure especially could prove an invaluable SB card against aggro as both a answer and a stabilizer. The Phalanx feels less good to me but the ability to switch from defense to offense could be more relevant than I'm giving it credit for.
This is true, but we also ran more draw as a general rule of thumb. Augury and Opportunity in these low numbers simply aren't going to cut it, srying or not.
Wow, three draw spells? How do you actually produce card advantage? You know, the whole point of trading 1-for-1 in the first place? The engine behind all control decks, blue and otherwise? This is important. When less experienced players look at the thread and see that there are almost no draw spells in the sample decklist, everybody else is going to have to keep telling them that their deck can't draw cards, over and over and over again.
The Sample Decklist was exactly that, an example, it's not a final list nor is it telling anyone to run that list. If there are other lists people would like to post and be displayed under Sample Decklists, I would more than happily do so.
I'll move the Thoughtseizes to the side and make some room for Inspirations - how does that look?
It's very much a work in progress, we're all working together here to try and perfect this after all
Only play-testing and observing the meta will tell. If the meta is heavily going toward X/1's, then both Omenspeaker and Izzet Staticaster are better. However, with lots of early (non-evasive) X/2's or even X/3's, then Returned Phalanx can be better, especially on the play. Given its fair size it should give aggro decks cause for a pause, and it will prevent opposing decks from siding out too much creature removal. LT;DR: We'll have to test and see!
This is the maindeck sideboard hasn't been built/tested yet.
Would love to hear feedback. Also I really hope INS gives a big post sometime on this deck, because imo your one of the opinions I value highest.
Creatures/walkers: Main goal is to get as much value out of them as possible upon resolve, desecration demon feels playable now but I'm still waiting for a more valuable 4 drop
Omenspeaker: Free scry on a 1/3, just a tad weaker than Augur of Bolas, the power level has dropped significantly since theros which is a good thing now that we don't have to worry about turn 4 kills anymore
Jace: I hold that he's a staple no matter what direction you take grixis
Desecration Demon: Much more viable now that we don't have to deal with etb creatures all day, the format is slow enough for him to shine
Stormbreath Dragon: Over prognostic sphinx since I can get damage in guaranteed unless they're holding on to instant speed removal
Thoughtseize: Awesome all around card, another reason I chose desecration demon so I can protect my efficient threats. I don't think it's maindeck material for a full on control deck though
Izzet Charm: Curve is low enough to use the looting ability effectively mid - late game. Early game it answers 80% of the threats out there, keeps sphinx's revelation in check
Divination: playing over read the bones since I can't afford the life-loss when I'm already running thoughtseize. Also better on curve than steam augury or inspiration (Jace/demon already fill those slots)
Dreadbore: Over hero's downfall for curve reasons and easier to cast
Syncopate: Only running 2, add this in with thoughtseize and izzet charm and I have 10 permission(ish) spells, I'ts more important for me to be able to counter something on the draw than play a hard counter.
Rakdos's Return: The power level of this card shot up significantly with the slowing of the format and the reprinting of thoughtseize, It's easy to interrupt the gameplan long enough to make them discard 2+
The thing about Thoughtseize, is it's cheap ability to hit high impact spells while backing up a counter/remove strategy and it also deals with problematic permanents.
Something to really try and understand about it's mainboard application is that it is almost the equivalent of an Oblivion Ring effect. Decks like esper benefit more by using space Thoughtseize would take up on things like Detention Sphere. Grixis kind of just has this slot wide open for something like Seize to offer more functionality.
As things move towards more of a draw-go strategy, I almost expect AEtherling to be less of a staple in lieu of other ways to win. A good example here would be using the slot for extra counter/removal/draw and letting something like Mutavault do a good portion of the work. It is hard to say though, because AEtherling is probably one of the most powerful blue finishers we have really seen in the history of the game.
So i like the idea of a midrangey or tap out control varient for Grixis control. Spot removal is looking better with so many of the two for one creatures rotating, and sorcery speed could also feel better if the format does slow down. Here is the base list I am starting with, it is more midrange than draw-go. Things I am looking at; Not sure I want to play thoughtflare at 5cmc, but i do like the idea of read the bones at 3cmc. The deck plays 27 lands but i may also want to cut one land for an additional Jace if i cut down on thoughtflare. I have built my permission suite to deal more heavily with on board creatures than countering spells but I may need to change the sideboard into a more transitional one that go's from this tap out build to a more draw-go one against control as alot of my removal is bad agains U/W/x. So far both aggro and midrange playtesting feels very promising, with a struggle especially in game one against control. One of the other concerns with this color combination is Enchantments, but it may mean just being conservative with thoughtseize and aim it at things like assemble, burning earth, ect...
This is where I'm currently at after some more testing. The added draw made a massive difference and I've been pretty happy with the spell setup so far.
Why Play Grixis Control?
CARD OPTIONS
[Staple] - Great card for us, you should seriously consider running it.
[Recommended] - Good card, but there are better options available to us.
[Not Recommended] - Not very good, unless a very different build.
[Sideboard] - A sideboard card that you should try to run depending on your meta.
Creatures:
[Staple] Frostburn Weird: Has a big butt, doesn't die to your own Anger of the Gods, can go on the offense. Run 2-4.
[Staple] Aetherling: The best finisher in Standard. Great on both offense and defense, almost impossible to kill. Play 1-2.
[Recommended] Omenspeaker: A 1/3 Blocker that sets up your next draws. Play 0-3.
[Recommended] Prognostic Sphinx: Can and should be used in combination with Aetherling as a back up finisher. It can protect it self and smoothen out your next draws. It can't dodge a Wrath, but not everything can be an Aetherling. Play 0-2.
[Recommended] Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius: Can be used in combination with Aetherling as a back up finisher. Provides great card advantage. Play 0-2.
[Recommended] Master of Cruelties: Can be used in combination with Aetherling as a back up finisher. Also a great wall. Play 0-2.
[Recommended] Desecration Demon: Can be used as an alternative finisher, however it's not a very reliable blocker. Play 0-2.
[Not Recommended] Lifebane Zombie: Good in midrange decks, but it doesn't do enough for us. Play 0.
[Not Recommended] Spellheart Chimera: Might be okay in a more tempo version of the deck, but not a finisher for Grixis Control. Play 0.
[Not Recommended] Duskmantle Seer: Can be played in certain builds, but not recommended for Control. Play 0.
[Not Recommended] Stormbreath Dragon: Better in a midrange deck, but meta dependent. Good way to punish Revelation decks. Possibly a Sideboard card. Play 0.
[Not Recommended] Sire of Insanity: Although good against Sphinx's Revelation, it also hurts us. Play Notion Thief before considering this. Play 0.
[Sideboard] Izzet Staticaster: Great against Token strategies and aggro. Play 2-4.
[Sideboard] Clone: Can be good in certain match ups. Play 0-1.
[Sideboard] Notion Thief: Good against Sphinx's Revelation, can be a beater. Play 0-2.
Planeswalkers:
[Staple] Jace, Architect of Thought: Slows down Aggro, provides card advantage and gives you access to finishers. Play 4.
[Recommended] Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver: Okay against Aggro where you use their creatures to block and eventually beat them with. Exiles Control's win conditions and the ultimate can wreck them. Run 0-4.
[Recommended] Ral Zarek: We don't have too much to untap, unless running Rakdos Keyrune. Works with Izzet Staticaster and Ratchet Bomb post-sideboard. Can be used as removal. Ultimate would provide a lot of card advantage, if you get there. Play 0-2.
[Not Recommended] Chandra, Pyromaster: Doesn't really do too much for us. The +1 isn't too relevant, the 0 ability contradicts with Counterspells and the Ultimate won't win you the game. Run 0.
[Sideboard] Jace, Memory Adept: Great in the Control Mirror. Run 1-2.
Instants & Sorceries:
Card Draw:
[Staple] Divination: Efficient in terms of mana cost, but is a sorcery and clashes with other spells. Play 2-4.
[Staple] Steam Augury: It's no Fact or Fiction, but it does the job. Play 0-3.
[Staple] Inspiration: With not much access to lower CMC draw spells and Steam Augury conflicting with running limited win conditions, this is probably the best spell to use in combination with it. Run 0-3.
[Staple] Opportunity: It's the closest thing to Sphinx's Revelation Grixis has. Play 1-3.
[Recommended] Quicken: Can be played in a version that needs cantrips or runs a lot of sorceries. Run 0-4.
[Recommended] Read the Bones: Might be better than Divination, life loss does not go unnoticed. Play 0-4.
[Recommended] Thoughtflare: Cheaper than Opportunity and digs deep, but not as good as Steam Augury. Run 0-2.
Disruption:
[Staple] Thoughtseize: One of the best disruption spells every printed. Run 3-4.
[Staple] Rakdos’s Return: Terrible against aggro, great vs. midrange and control. Run 1-3.
[Recommended] Duress No reason to run this over Thoughtseize, unless you need copies 5-8. Run 0.
[Not Recommended] Reap Intellect: Rakdos's Return is generally much better. Run 0.
[Sideboard] Slaughter Games: Excellent sideboard card, helps dealing with problem permanents such as Aetherling/Assemble the Legion or helps you resolve your own finishers. Run 1-3.
Removal & Bounce:
[Staple] Shock: Now that Pillar of Flame and Tragic Slip have left us, this fills our spot for the 1 drop removal, however, Magma Jet simply outclasses it. Run 0-4.
[Staple] Magma Jet: Removal, sets up draws. Run 2-4.
[Staple] Lightning Strike: This Standard's Searing Spear. Run 0-3.
[Staple] Turn // Burn: Gets rid of almost any creature. Kills gods. Run 2-4.
[Staple] Anger of the Gods: Strictly better Slagstorm, one of the reasons to play Grixis Control. Run 2-4.
[Staple] Drown in Sorrow : Strictly better Infest, compare to Anger, depends on your decks mana base etc. Run 2-4.
[Staple] Doom Blade: One of the best removal spells we have access to. Run 2-4.
[Staple] Dreadbore: Costs 1 less than Hero's Downfall, but it's a sorcery. Run 0-2.
[Staple] Hero's Downfall: Instant speed Dreadbore. Run 0-2.
[Staple] Devour Flesh: Cheap efficient removal. Great against hexproof decks. Run 1-3.
[Staple] Far // Away: Bounce your own creature, their creature, great against hexproof, can get rid of two threats. Very good card. Run 3-4.
[Staple] Bile Blight : Harder to cast, but worth the effort. Run 0-3.
[Recommended] Ultimate Price We simply have access to better removal now. Run 0-2.
[Recommended] Mizzium Mortars: Early game removal, mid-late game boardwipe. Now that we have Anger of the Gods, we don't need to rely on this. Run 0-2.
[Recommended] Cyclonic Rift: Another boardwipe, that takes longer to set up. Run 0-2.
[Recommended] Warped Physique: Not as good in our deck as in Revelation decks. Run 0-3.
[Recommended] Aetherize: Good tempo swing. Disrupts Devotion. Run 0-2.
[Not Recommended] Skullcrack: We typically don't care about lifegain. Run 0.
[Not Recommended] Annihilating Fire: We have access to better burn. Run 0.
[Not Recommended] Whelming Wave: If this was an Instant....Run 0-1.
[Not Recommended] Disperse: Cyclonic Rift is better. Run 0.
[Not Recommended] Voyage's End: Cyclonic Rift is better. Run 0.
[Not Recommended] Rapid Hybridization: Although it can kill most creatures, no questions asked, a 3/3 can be a pain from time to time. Run 0.
[Not Recommended] Curse of the Swine: Yeah, there's a cute combo with Ratchet Bomb here, but we don't really want to deal with a bunch of 2/2's. Run 0.
[Not Recommended] Searing Blood: Probably great in RDW, but not made for Grixis Control. Run 0.
[Not Recommended] Gild: Costs too much. Does kill Gods though. Run 0.
[Not Recommended] Fated Conflagration : We have access to both Dreadbore and Hero's Downfall, no need for this at all. Run 0.
[Sideboard] Dark Betrayal: We need it for the MBD match-up, run 3-4.
Counterspells:
[Staple] Syncopate: Good counterspell, exiles, can sometimes be cost for 1U, however, gets worse as the game goes on. Run 0-3.
[Staple] Essence Scatter: Now that Cavern of Souls has gone bye-bye, this should definitely be in our 75. Run 3-4.
[Staple] Dissolve: Strictly better than Cancel, it replaces Dissipate. Run 2-4.
[Staple] Psychic Strike: Easier to cast than Dissolve, some builds may even prefer running this over it, depending on their manabase. Run 0-4.
[Not Recommended] Stymied Hopes: Syncopate is going to be better 99% of the time.
[Not Recommended] Cancel: Dissolve is strictly better, no reason to run this. Run 0.
[Sideboard] Dispel: Great against Revelation decks, not sure if Swan Song is strictly better? Run 0-2.
[Sideboard] Swan Song: See Dispel. Run 0-2.
[Sideboard] Annul: Compare it to Dispel and Swan Song. Run 0.
[Sideboard] Gainsay: Great against control mirror. Great against MUD. Run 2-4.
[Sideboard] Negate: Probably not many reasons to run this over Gainsay. Run 0-2.
[Sideboard] Counterflux: For the control mirror. Run 0-2.
Multipurpose:
[Staple] Izzet Charm: Excellent multipurpose card. Kills dudes, counters non-creature spells, filters. Run 2-4.
[Staple] Dimir Charm: Looking at the meta right now, it's our better Last Breath. Run 3-4.
[Not Recommended] Toil // Trouble: Card draw, plus punishes Revelation decks, but we have better hate. Run 0.
[Not Recommended] Blast of Genius: Too cute. Run 0.
[Sideboard] Rakdos Charm: Great multipurpose sideboard card, destroys an artifact, exiles a graveyard and punishes combo. Run 0-2.
Misc:
[Not Recommended] Cremate: Run 0.
[Not Recommended] Wild Ricochet: As much as I like the card, there aren't too many applications for it right now. Run 0.
[Not Recommended] Illness in the Ranks: Unless tokens become a thing, this is not even good enough to sideboard. Run 0.
[Sideboard] Crypt Incursion: Graveyard hate, gains you life against aggro decks. Run 0-2.
[Sideboard] Psychic Spiral: Anti-mill, okay in control mirror. Run 0-1.
Artifacts & Enchantments:
[Recommended] Rakdos Keyrune: Can be a good card, accelerates you, is a great blocker, and can be used on the offense. However, clashes with other spells you want to cast on turn 3. Works with Ral Zarek too. Not as good now that we don't have to deal with Thragtusk. Run 0-3.
[Recommended] Underworld Connections: Almost a Phyrexian Arena. Can be abused with Ral Zarek. We often cannot deal with the life loss however. Play 0-2.
[Recommended] Thassa, God of the Sea: Yet to be properly tested, but a free scry every upkeep is nothing to laugh at. Play 0-2.
[Recommended] Whip of Erebos: Yet to be properly tested, but it can bring an Aetherling back and keep it for good when you exile it. Helps gain life and reuse Omenspeaker late game. Needs testing. Run 0-1.
[Not Recommended] Erebos, God of the Dead: Yet to be tested, but we can't really afford the life loss. Would never be a creature. Play 0.
[Not Recommended] Dimir Keyrune: It's no Creeping Tar Pit...Run 0.
[Sideboard] Pithing Needle: Can stop anything from a planeswalker to a utility land. Run 1-2.
[Sideboard] Glaring Spotlight: If hexproof becomes a huge thing, for now...Run 0.
[Sideboard] Elixir of Immortality: Anti-Mill and for long control games. Run 0-1.
[Sideboard] Ratchet Bomb: Helps Grixis answer cards it usually can't, such as enchantments. Run 1-3.
Lands:
[Staple] Island, Swamp and Mountain: Due to Sulfur Falls etc leaving and the printing of Burning Earth we need to start running a lot more basics. Run 8-12.
[Staple] Blood Crypt: Run 4.
[Staple] Steam Vents: Run 4.
[Staple] Watery Grave: Run 4.
[Staple] Temple of Deceit: Our supporting land cycle for this year. Run 3-4.
[Staple] Temple of Malice: Our supporting land cycle for this year. Run 3-4.
[Recommended] Mutavault: Certain lists can take advantage of a manland. Run 1-3.
[Recommended] [c]Shimmering Grotto
[/c]: Enters untapped, might be smoother on the manabase for some decks. Run 0-4.
[Recommended] Unknown Shores: Enters untapped, might be smoother on the manabase for some decks. Run 0-4.
[Recommended] Izzet Guildgate: Until we get the Izzet Scry land, can use this.. Run 0-3
[Recommended] Rakdos Guildgate: Until we get the RakdosScry land, can use thi.. Run 0-3
[Not Recommended] Dimir Guildgate: Little reason to run over Scry land cycle. Run 0.
[Not Recommended] Encroaching Wastes: With a 3 colour deck harder to maintain, and the rotation of good utility lands such as Kessig Wolf Run and Nephalia Drownyard, we don't really need it. Run 0.
SAMPLE DECKLISTS
1x Prognostic Sphinx
2x Aetherling
Instants (24)
2x Magma Jet
2x Doom Blade
3x Far // Away
1x Turn // Burn
2x Izzet Charm
3x Essence Scatter
4x Dissolve
4x Inspiration
2x Steam Augury
1x Opportunity
1x Rakdos's Return
2x Dreadbore
4x Anger of the Gods
Lands (26)
4x Steam Vents
4x Blood Crypt
4x Watery Grave
4x Temple of Deceit
1x Izzet Guildgate
1x Unknown Shores
4x Island
4x Mountain
3x Thoughtseize
1x Gainsay
2x Counterflux
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Dreadbore
1x Rakdos's Return
2x Slaughter Games
2x Jace, Memory Adept
4x Frostburn Weird
1x Aetherling
Planeswalkers (8)
4x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
4x Jace, Architect of Thought
Instants (8)
2x Shock
2x Doom Blade
1x Turn // Burn
3x Far // Away
Sorceries (13)
2x Rakdos's Return
3x Divination
3x Dreadbore
1x Mizzium Mortars
4x Anger of the Gods
4x Watery Grave
4x Blood Crypt
4x Steam Vents
4x Temple of Deceit
2x Izzet Guildgate
3x Island
3x Mountain
2x Swamp
3x Thoughtseize
1x Dreadbore
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Crypt Incursion
2x Slaughter Games
2x Master of Waves
2x Jace, Memory Adept
1x Aetherling
2x Aetherling
Planeswalkers (3)
3x Jace, Architect of Thought
Instants (13)
2x Shock
2x Magma Jet
2x Far // Away
1x Syncopate
2x Dissolve
1x Steam Augury
3x Opportunity
Sorceries (14)
2x Divination
1x Rakdos's Return
3x Dreadbore
4x Anger of the Gods
4x Mizzium Mortars
2x Ratchet Bomb
Lands (26)
4x Blood Crypt
4x Steam Vents
4x Watery Grave
4x Temple of Deceit
4x Island
6x Mountain
3x Thoughtseize
2x Shock
1x Dreadbore
3x Izzet Staticaster
1x Counterflux
3x Slaughter Games
1x Stormbreath Dragon
1x Jace, Memory Adept
4x Frostburn Weird
Planeswalkers (11)
4x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1x Ral Zarek
2x Chandra, Pyromaster
4x Jace, Architect of Thought
Artifacts (2)
2x Rakdos Keyrune
Instants (5)
2x Shock
3x Far // Away
Sorceries
4x Dreadbore
3x Anger of the Gods
2x Rakdos's Return
3x Read the Bones
4x Watery Grave
4x Blood Crypt
4x Steam Vents
4x Temple of Deceit
2x Izzet Guildgate
3x Island
3x Mountain
2x Swamp
2x Pithing Needle
3x Thoughtseize
1x Rakdos's Return
3x Ratchet Bomb
3x Izzet Staticaster
3x Stormbreath Dragon
4x Frostburn Weird
1x Prognostic Sphinx
1x Aetherling
Planeswalkers (5)
4x Jace, Architect of Thought
1x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Instants (16)
4x Quicken
1x Izzet Charm
3x Syncopate
3x Far // Away
1x Psychic Strike
3x Inspiration
1x Opportunity
1x Mizzium Mortars
2x Dreadbore
3x Anger of the Gods
1x Rakdos's Return
Lands (26)
4x Blood Crypt
4x Steam Vents
4x Watery Grave
4x Temple of Deceit
8x Mountain
2x Island
2x Shock
2x Thoughtseize
1x Pithing Needle
1x Negate
1x Mizzium Mortars
1x Doom Blade
1x Anger of the Gods
1x Psychic Strike
1x Far // Away
1x Whip of Erebos
1x Notion Thief
1x Slaughter Games
1x Rakdos's Return
MATCHUP ANALYSIS
CONCLUSION
4 Dissolve
4 Psychic Strike
2 Essence Scatter
2 Izzet Charm
2 Counterflux
1 Negate
1 Dispel
2 Essence Scatter
I used to worry about Psychic Strike's mill property, but I haven't met many decks that try to use the graveyard effectively now.
The mana-base is currently a big issue. In your sample list you run 16 blue sources (4 cipt), 14 black sources (4 cipt) and 12 red sources. To consistently get 1UU on turn 3 for Dissolve you need around 18, and the same goes for 1RR and 1BB.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=9733836#post9733836
You're right, Psychic Strike is better than I gave it credit for. It can be our hard counter 5-8.
I know the mana base can be an issue, but honestly, in reality, even on turn 3 we're going to be casting Essence Scatter, Doom Blade and Magma Jet and not always going to need 1UU 1BB AND 1RR on turn 3, the Hero's Demise is only a 1-off in the main and you don't always want to Anger the Gods on turn 3. The only problem I see is starting with 16 life when you want to shock yourself to Thoughtseize, I want to run more basic Swamps, but that only hurts the mana base more. It is currently a work in progress ofcorse, and only testing can perfect it.
Um, yes - if you had played Grixis before rotation, you would know that we did 1-1 almost every threat, and this is when we didn't have Anger of the Gods, now we can do more than 1-1 then in some cases.
The sample decklist, the one I am currently testing, runs 15 cards that Scry! That's how I consistently hit my land drops - it really makes a huge difference.
As stated in the Primer, Jace, Architect of Thought is a staple. I am however running the Draw-Go version of the deck as opposed to the Tap-Out one and didn't see the need for him in this build.
Izzet Charm is also a great card to smoothen out draws and filter cards, against aggro you can discard cards like Thoughtseize and against control, Magma Jet.
The easier mana cost makes it better than dissolve imo
Simple, don't run cashseize in the main. Against control you can simply board them in for less relevant spells such as Magma Jet. Thoughtseize is a fantastic card but I cannot stress this enough, the shock IS relevant and unless you are proactively using it to push through a important spell, all you're doing is trading 1 for 1 while shocking yourself in the proces. A mana efficient trade mind you but still 1 for 1 nonetheless.
This is true, but we also ran more draw as a general rule of thumb. Augury and Opportunity in these low numbers simply aren't going to cut it, srying or not.
Jace is a house, but could prove to be very powerful even in draw go versions should the meta require it. The meta or your chosen playstyle may not even matter and he could very well end up being a staple regardless.
This I disagree with though. Looting with Izzet Charm to smoothen your draws is not a plus of the card, it is an act of desperation. Izzet Charm should be looked at as a versatile catch all card that has applications in both control and aggro MU's but can generally be sided out for superior spells if needed in game 2/3 situations.
Good job on getting the Primer going though, allot of hard work is instore for us but I believe we can make it work.
Love the banner btw
As for Thoughtseize in the MB or not, a big thing to keep in mind is that this color has a strange inability to deal with some permanents if they slip by. Thoughtseize patches that up well...
Building off that, so does Cyclonic Rift.
I find it strange that you are also classifying things as a Staple when we are not even into the new format and this is a deck that requires a fair amount of focus that builds off an existing format, or even discounting certain cards as SB material over MB material.
That being said, I look forward to seeing the deck flesh itself out and the primer pulling itself together a bit more as a result.
EoT Rift into Rakdos's Return?
Living the dream
Jokes aside Rift is a fantastic value card that has applications all game round. Bouncing permanents to gain tempo or to counter the card in question on the way down simply makes it a very versatile package.
Both have obvious applications against aggressive lists, the cure especially could prove an invaluable SB card against aggro as both a answer and a stabilizer. The Phalanx feels less good to me but the ability to switch from defense to offense could be more relevant than I'm giving it credit for.
1) Being dishonest
or
2) Getting crap from the mods?
How do you actually produce card advantage? You know, the whole point of trading 1-for-1 in the first place? The engine behind all control decks, blue and otherwise? This is important. When less experienced players look at the thread and see that there are almost no draw spells in the sample decklist, everybody else is going to have to keep telling them that their deck can't draw cards, over and over and over again.
Thoughts?
Snapcaster Mage was used in last season's lists as a form of Card Advantage, being able to trade with one dude whilst giving flashback to something else, or sometimes being reused with a far//away, with this we would run 4x think twice and 4x alchemy.
Unfortunately we can't add cheap card draw as there isn't any that makes card advantage (i.e. net + a card), to help us with consistency early turns we have to rely on scrying, so I think we want 4+ Omenspeaker/Magma Jet to help us get through turns 1-4.
For late game Card advantage in addition to running the full 8 4 CMC draw spells we could look at 2-3 more, Thoughtflare and Oppurtunity look like the best two options to me, though the other option is Jace, I don't like tapping for him though.
The selection of instant draw spells is very poor for cmc <= 3, and as many of you have said - we need more than 8 draw spells. I'm currently looking at 10 and I feel that I might need an 11th.
The main problem is that with 10+ draw spells the chance of getting 2+ draw spells in your opening hand is pretty high, which in the end means that you need to mulligan (e.g. 3 draw, 3 land and AEtherling), since all of them are CMC 4 and up. (Another way to put this is that our net average CMC is driven too high.)
2 AEtherling
1 Prognostic Sphinx
2 Opportunity
2 Izzet Charm
3 Magma Jet
1 Hero's Downfall
2 Dissolve
2 Psychic Strike
2 Doom Blade
3 Essence Scatter
3 Far // Away
2 Turn // Burn
2 Steam Augury
2 Syncopate
4 Blood Crypt
4 Steam Vents
4 Temple of Deceit
2 Swamp
4 Island
4 Mountain
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Dreadbore
3 Thoughtseize
2 Rakdos's Return
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
So here's my problem
I Love 2 Rakdos's Return, at least 1 Dreadbore and at least 2 Ashiok main.
Also, I really don't think that Steam Augury is an auto 4 of, I mean, I'm running 5 true win conditions mainboard so with my opponent pitching up to 4 from Steam, that leaves me with one win con >_>.
Also, there are 68 cards here, I know.
But I can't bring myself to cut any of them
Can someone give me a quick rundown on Inspiration vs Opportunity as well?
( so many requests from a single post, I'm sorry, I've been out of constructed play since mana leak was in standard.)
Yes, I am asking what to cut
I actually just realized that Aetherling can be brought back for good with Whip so it might actually be a good addition, it also helps recour Omenspeaker late game as a mana-sink, definitely something we need to test!
This is true, I wanted to try and have a better Game 1 MU against both aggro and control, but it might be a better idea to move them to the side. The things we're going to want to deal with are Aetherling and Assemble the Legion etc anyway.
Yeah, it's not the first application of Izzet Charm, however in a build where certain cards are not great in certain match ups, such as removal vs control, you can use it for filtering.
It's just prelimery classifications, most people can agree that Aetherling is a staple, Cancel is not recommended and that Elixer of Immortality is a sideboard card. Some cards tagged as sideboard may be good in certain metas and terrible in others. It is very much a work in progress and hopefully can be perfected with the help of everyone here ^^
Pharika's Cure could actually be useful, then again - the double black might be annoying. I'm not sure about Returned Phalanx though, you wouldn't really want it over Omenspeaker or Izzet Staticaster would you?
The Sample Decklist was exactly that, an example, it's not a final list nor is it telling anyone to run that list. If there are other lists people would like to post and be displayed under Sample Decklists, I would more than happily do so.
I'll move the Thoughtseizes to the side and make some room for Inspirations - how does that look?
It's very much a work in progress, we're all working together here to try and perfect this after all
Thanks lol. I really hope we can - I'm exited to play Grixis this season!
Only play-testing and observing the meta will tell. If the meta is heavily going toward X/1's, then both Omenspeaker and Izzet Staticaster are better. However, with lots of early (non-evasive) X/2's or even X/3's, then Returned Phalanx can be better, especially on the play. Given its fair size it should give aggro decks cause for a pause, and it will prevent opposing decks from siding out too much creature removal. LT;DR: We'll have to test and see!
1 Prognostic Sphinx
1 Cycloinc Rift
2 Devour Flesh
4 Essencse Scatter
3 Far//Away
3 Inspiration
3 Izzet Charm
2 Magma Jet
2 Psychic Strike
4 Steaming Augury
2 Syncopate
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Dreadbore
4 Blood Crypt
4 Watery Grave
4 Steam Vents
4 Temple of Deceit
2 Mutavault
4 Island
5 Mountain
1 Swamp
This is the maindeck sideboard hasn't been built/tested yet.
Would love to hear feedback. Also I really hope INS gives a big post sometime on this deck, because imo your one of the opinions I value highest.
4 Omenspeaker
4 Desecration Demon
2 Stormbreath Dragon
Planeswalkers (4)
4 Jace, Architect of thought
Sorcery (14)
4 Thoughtseize
2 Dreadbore
4 Divination
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Rakdos's Return
4 Izzet Charm
4 Far // Away
Lands (24)
4 Blood Crypt
4 Watery Grave
4 Steam vents
2 Rakdos Guildate
4 Izzet Guildgate
4 Swamp
2 Mountain
4 Shock
4 Duress
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Slaughter Games
2 Rakdos's Return
Creatures/walkers: Main goal is to get as much value out of them as possible upon resolve, desecration demon feels playable now but I'm still waiting for a more valuable 4 drop
Omenspeaker: Free scry on a 1/3, just a tad weaker than Augur of Bolas, the power level has dropped significantly since theros which is a good thing now that we don't have to worry about turn 4 kills anymore
Jace: I hold that he's a staple no matter what direction you take grixis
Desecration Demon: Much more viable now that we don't have to deal with etb creatures all day, the format is slow enough for him to shine
Stormbreath Dragon: Over prognostic sphinx since I can get damage in guaranteed unless they're holding on to instant speed removal
Thoughtseize: Awesome all around card, another reason I chose desecration demon so I can protect my efficient threats. I don't think it's maindeck material for a full on control deck though
Izzet Charm: Curve is low enough to use the looting ability effectively mid - late game. Early game it answers 80% of the threats out there, keeps sphinx's revelation in check
Divination: playing over read the bones since I can't afford the life-loss when I'm already running thoughtseize. Also better on curve than steam augury or inspiration (Jace/demon already fill those slots)
Dreadbore: Over hero's downfall for curve reasons and easier to cast
Syncopate: Only running 2, add this in with thoughtseize and izzet charm and I have 10 permission(ish) spells, I'ts more important for me to be able to counter something on the draw than play a hard counter.
Rakdos's Return: The power level of this card shot up significantly with the slowing of the format and the reprinting of thoughtseize, It's easy to interrupt the gameplan long enough to make them discard 2+
Mana-Curve:
2 x CMC
4 1 CMC
10 2 CMC
10 3 CMC
8 4 CMC
2 5 CMC
Something to really try and understand about it's mainboard application is that it is almost the equivalent of an Oblivion Ring effect. Decks like esper benefit more by using space Thoughtseize would take up on things like Detention Sphere. Grixis kind of just has this slot wide open for something like Seize to offer more functionality.
As things move towards more of a draw-go strategy, I almost expect AEtherling to be less of a staple in lieu of other ways to win. A good example here would be using the slot for extra counter/removal/draw and letting something like Mutavault do a good portion of the work. It is hard to say though, because AEtherling is probably one of the most powerful blue finishers we have really seen in the history of the game.
3x Omenspeaker
3x Desecration Demon
1x AEtherling
Spells
4x Izzet Charm
2x Essence Scatter
1x Dissolve
2x Doom Blade
2x Mizzium Mortars
2x Far // Away
3x Thoughtflare
3x Jace, Arcithec of Thought
2x Ral Zarek
3x ThoughtSeize
2x Rakdos's Return
4x Blood Crypt
4x Steam Vent
4x Watery Grave
4x Temple of Silence
2x Izzet Guildgate
5x Island
3x Swamp
1x Mountain
2x Duress
2x Negate
3x Anger of the Gods
1x Jace, Memory Adept
2x Notion Thief
1x Far // Away
2x Dreadbore
2x Pithing Needle
1x Aetherling
Planeswalkers [3]
3x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Instants [32]
4x Far//Away
3x Devour Flesh
1x Hero's Downfall
1x Cyclonic Rift
3x Syncopate
2x Essence Scatter
2x Dissolve
3x Psychic Strike
4x Steam Augury
4x Inspiration
2x Opportunity
1x Thoughtflare
2x Psychic Spiral
2x Mutavault
4x Blood Crypt
4x Steam Vents
4x Watery Grave
4x Temple of Silence
4x Island
2x Swamp
1x Izzet Guildgate
1x Rakdos Guildgate
3x Izzet Staticaster
2x Pharika's Cure
1x Essence Scatter
1x Doom Blade
1x Ultimate Price
2x Jace, Memory Adept
1x Negate
1x Dispel
1x Counterflux
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Rakdos's Return
This is where I'm currently at after some more testing. The added draw made a massive difference and I've been pretty happy with the spell setup so far.