11/12/13 - Updated lists and tourney reports at end of thread.
INTRODUCTION: This deck is a result of preying on the current MTGO standard meta, and it is very, very well positioned right now. The deck is at its core a tempo based Red devotion deck based around Purphoros However, it also utilizes sweepers, burn-based removal and scrying to smooth draws and help set up its endgame which is the Purphoros/Assemble the Legion combo.
At the moment, after the recent pro tour, Mono blue devotion decks have begun to pop up like crazy alongside already popular red aggro decks to make up a large percentage of the MTGO meta. Both of these decks, along with G/W tempo decks and any weenie strategy, are susceptible to sweepers, cheap removal, and efficient creatures. This deck is EXCELLENT against the aforementioned decks, and also has a favorable matchup against Mono Black devotion, most midrange decks, and is decent vs. control especially after SB. Control is our worst matchup, Mono-U devotion and red aggro are our best. I've been testing this deck over the past few days, and have two 3-1 records to show for it in dailies, one of which should have been a 4-0 (the final match was against Mono-U, but I had to mull heavy in two of the three games).
COMMENTS: I will work on this primer more when I get time next week, but the basic idea of the deck is to stall (frostburn) or remove (magma jet) early threats, set of a x/3 sweeper if needed on turn 3 or 4 (its ok to torch a Reckoner, but watch out for the Phoenix's since they get exiled off of AOTG), and move towards a Purphoros/Legion combo or just a Purporos devotion game state.
Key cards in the deck are pretty much all the creatures to enable Purphoros, Chained to the Rocks to deal with Thassa and Des. Demon, Magma Jet to scry away land and extra Purphoros/remove early threats/dig for land and purphoros.
The SB I'm working with now is largely for control (since they turn Chained to the Rocks, Anger of The Gods, and Mortars largely into blanks), Wear//Tear is for Mono B, Mizz mortars are mainly for Blood Baron and extra 2 drop removal.
Problems: The deck is weak to planeswalkers, we really have no good way to get to them aside from burn, ratchet bomb, and glare (Elspeth). The deck also can malfunction if its hit with early hand disruption (Thoughtseize) since we rely on a good amount of card synergy.
Things to work on: I would like to find a place for a second Ember Swallower; his stats are great, the RR is key, and he deals with Baron. I'm leery about putting another 4 drop in though, the cut would likely be a Phoenix demoted to the SB. Elspeth might have a place here as well, but not sure if she's just a win-more card in every matchup but control, she could replace an Assemble MD though. The SB is a work in progress, another Wear//Tear might need to be added if Mono B keeps becoming popular.
The main reason this deck is well positioned at the moment isn't necessarily Purphoros or ATL, its the 4x Chained to the Rocks and 4x Anger of the Gods in the 75. Chained is amazing vs. almost every deck that isn't control right now, and a turn 3 Anger is usually game right there vs. Mono R and Mono U. The only creatures we run that get torched vs. Anger are Phoenix's, (Reckoners too, but that usually works in our favor).
That being said the deck is soft to control and midrange strategies without purphoros and ATL. That combo (and phoenix's) is kind of the finisher vs. midrange and control. Versus Mono U and R I side out ATL anyway, it is very much a win more card in aggro matchups, and I would rather have more removal or an ember swallower in its place. The more I play with him, I like Purphoros more and more. I don't think he's suited for hard aggro strategies, but in this deck, he's great. He nullifies Jace's +1 pretty damn effectively too.
Mono B matchups have been going really well. Anger takes out Specters and Zombies, and chained (and ATL) deals with DD. Another Wear//Tear might be needed to help clear up Underworld Connections and the Whip, since you want to keep their board as clear as possible to minimize the impact of the Merchant coming down. I thought about Stormbreath Dragons; they help activate Purphoros, and have an immediate impact when they come down, but vs. aggro I would usually rather have an Archangel there. I dunno. I might play around with it, definitely something worth keeping in mind.
I've been off the grid all last week, I'll try and get some more dailies in over the next few days. Looking at mtgo-stats today, I still think the deck is really really well positioned at the moment, and probably will be for some time.
Just to say something about Assemble the Legion. Its defintely not as game winning as you think it is especially against any blue deck that runs Jace who is pretty much a four of in any UW Control list. If they have Jace in play you can have as may token as you want. They will have zero power.
Not to be rude, but I don't think this list deserves its own thread/primer. It's already extremely close to some of the lists being discussed in the Big Red/Red Devotion threads, minus an Archangel of Thune
Just to say something about Assemble the Legion. Its defintely not as game winning as you think it is especially against any blue deck that runs Jace who is pretty much a four of in any UW Control list. If they have Jace in play you can have as may token as you want. They will have zero power.
Agreed, if you don't have Purphoros out. Purphoros nullifies Jace's +1 anyway, and the cumulative ETB damage from the tokens coming in wins games without even needing to attack in a lot of cases. I've played a LOT of games with this deck, against a lot of Jace's. He's a non-issue most times.
Not to be rude, but I don't think this list deserves its own thread/primer. It's already extremely close to some of the lists being discussed in the Big Red/Red Devotion threads, minus an Archangel of Thune
Most of those lists use Chandra in the 4 slot instead of Purphoros, and don't use ATL. Most of those lists also get rolled fairly easily by Mono R and Mono U aggro decks as well, since they can't outrace them and don't use Anger of the gods (and if they do, it usually torches a lot of their own creatures). Hero's downfall in Mono B also makes Chandra useless in many cases.
redthirst is redthirst, fifth Horseman of the Apocalypse. He was the leader of the Fires of Salvation, the only clan I'm aware of to get modded off the forums so hard they made their own forums.
Degenerate? Sure. Loudmouth? You bet. Law abiding? No ****ing way.
Most of those lists use Chandra in the 4 slot instead of Purphoros, and don't use ATL. Most of those lists also get rolled fairly easily by Mono R and Mono U aggro decks as well, since they can't outrace them and don't use Anger of the gods (and if they do, it usually torches a lot of their own creatures). Hero's downfall in Mono B also makes Chandra useless in many cases.
I have this feeling you're playing the Red Devotion deck wrong if you think they lose that easy to MBD and RDW.
First off, I like this deck more than the other "Big Red" builds if you want to call it that. This deck is a lot more adaptable to whatever matchup your in, you're not committed to bashing away automatically, and you can play the beatdown or control as you see fit.
Anyways.... In MTGO dailies, Mono-B devotion is nuts right now. I just went against 4 Black devotion decks in a row in the 7pm daily. This deck has a good matchup against Mono-B, but its not great, probably 60/40 at best depending on the build. Purphoros/Assemble/Espeth is really the key to beating them, since you can sac 1/1s to Des demon all day and they can't interact with ATL or Purph.
However, a lot of Mono B decks are adding G for abrupt decay and Golgari Charm, to help with the mirror and against Esper. Some Mono-B devotion pilots are also just running straight up Junk builds with decay, Sylvan Caryatid, multiple Whips, and Obzedat (ahem, me.) This deck can't beat that. Abrupt decay turns Chained to the Rocks into a combat trick in their favor, and golgari charm nukes ATL and Chained. I'm pretty much putting this build on hold until the MTGO meta changes. The deck still sucks against Esper too.
Anyways, if you play in a meta that is primarily aggro and midrange, give this a shot. Its phenomenal against Mono R, Mono U, G/R nykthos, G/U Nykthos, and Big Red. Its ok vs. Orzhov Mid. If you play in a meta that is Mono-B and Esper, stay away from this.
I've been playing something similar. I've actually gone up to 4 purphoros. Mono B players aren't dumb and illness now resides in the SB. Against control a single jace can blank assemble indefinitely. Without purphoros damage you won't win.
I play 4 mortars and 4 chained as my removal and the rest is basically the same. Warleaders is in the sb since its really situational. You can expect to overload mortars most games and anything smaller is easily blocked by ash/frostburn
Current list. Really needs to lose 1 mortar/1 chained/1 frostburn for 3 stormbreath. Alot of the time it plays out as
2 Drop
Hammer/Reckoner
Purphoros/Mogis
Assemble
Problem is that they end up nuking your reckoner and the combined left over cards don't provide 5. Being able to drop a dragon and swing 10 would be great. Unfortunately I don't have 45 tix sitting around to test this atm. Will do if I win a few more dailies though.
Biggest problem is actually control. 8 Dead removal spells at the start and all they have to do is sphere your ATL/Purphoros. Games 2 is alot better once you add Debtor's/Pithing/assemble/wear//tear and remove all 8 removal.
Things to consider:
Magma Jet - This deck mulls like crap, Mortars is a boss but so is this. Almost thinking 3 mortars in SB instead of warleaders helix and Jet MB.
Madcap Skulls - Cute on purphoros since you know he isn't going to be removed. Only adds 1 devotion though =/
Boros Charm/Rootborn - Both actually seem bad since rarely do you have mana open to use them properly. Boros Charm has more utility, Rootborn is cute with a hammer.
EDIT: Just finished first daily event with this. Ironically ended up getting reimbursed when I dced playing for 3-1. I stomped mono b, g/r aggro and lost to a mono b who turn 2 packrat both games and spammed them. Sadly losing to mana screw when I was unable to T2 a chained to the rocks to remove it.
Game 4 I played someone playing mono r with a splash for chained and using dragons. Felt like the mirror. Sadly lost game 1 to him dropping double dragons and beating me from 20-0 without drawing a mortars to overload. He won with 2 health. Then the client decided to fail and I filed for reimbursement =/
How's Nykthos in this list? I guess I don't see the purpose when we don't have card draw or mana sinks, what do you dump the mana into? If you;re gonna run Nykthos, you could maybe run x spells?
I've been unimpressed with my singleton Stormbreath so far. He's ok, but the games I win with him, I already have locked up in most cases, and in close games where I need an out or some kind of board presence, he eats a removal spell.
One thing you might want to look into is Phoenix's. Recurring, Purphoros damage trigger and adds RR for devotion. They're great in almost every matchup other than straight aggro, and even then its a 2/2 blocker that you can recur. Basically phoenix's are how I beat control a lot of the time, they're only answer is DT spheres, but they usually save them for Assemble and Purphoros, so burn/Phoenix's go a long way.
On a related note, Magama Jet rules. Singlehandedly makes a lot of mull hands keepable. The scry is super important, and you need to do something with your mana on turn 2 in most cases if you don't have a two drop. They get better with Phoenix's, obviously.
I run Keening apparition instead of Wear//Tear. Wear//Tear is better vs. Mono-B maybe, since you can occasionaly nuke a whip and connections at the same time, but the ETB trigger with Purphoros makes it a little better I think.
Not sure why people like Hammer so much. I only want it against control, most other matchups it ends up being a dead card.
Jace doesn't do anything against Purphoros, for 3 mana you can negate his +1 entirely.
My biggest problem with Mono-B isn't illness in the ranks (which is a really narrow card and can be dealt with), it's that a lot of them are running G/B versions now. Sylvan Caryatid blanks Reckoner, Abrupt Decay turns a chained Des. Demon into a combat trick in their favor, and Golgari Charm blows up Assemble the Legion. If more people start running the splash G version of Mono black dev., I would quit running this. There's really no way to win that matchup without just abandoning the whole concept of the deck.
Anyways, if you run this in more dailies, keep posting your results. My last try with this deck I went 2-2 on Tuesday, I played against FOUR mono B decks. The two I lost to splashed green.
I think I'm going to cut the archangels, and add a couple of Ash Zealots in the SB. Aggro matchups, including Mono U are already pretty winnable without the archangel, and I want a faster clock against control and Mono B. The first strike will let me use Helix's/Magma jet in combat against Demons/Specters too, this deck really needs another way to remove DD other than chained.
Match 1 - vs. G/R ramp: 2-0
This matchup is pretty easy, everything has 4 toughness, and phoenixs fly over everything to hit the walkers. Side in swallowers/mortars side out a couple magma jets and the Zealot. Neither game was close.
Match 2 - vs. R/W aggro: 2-0
Similiar deck to mine, but more aggro with more reliance on 1 drops and Boros Charms. Side out Elspeth 1 Purphoros and ATL, side in mortars, 2 anger of the god. This is generally the SB for all aggro matchups too. Favorable matchup.
Match 3 - vs. Junk midrange: 2-0
To be fair any deck running abrupt decays/golgari charms is a pain. Decays make chained worthless, and golgari charm wipes out ATL. Both of those cards are necessary in midrange matchups. Anyway, basically I topdecked Elspeth to wipe the board of 4/xs in G2 for the win, and G1 I got in beats early, and swung through the air to finish after removing threats.
Match 4 - vs. Red devotion: 0-2
I know this deck, I played with this deck, if it draws right, there's almost nothing you can do. He got Nykthos out both games, multiple fanatics, etc. G2, he vomited his whole hand out on turn 4. The straight up red dev. deck is high variance though, so when it works its nuts, when it doesn't, it sucks.
Tourney 2: 11/12/2013
Match 1 - vs. Junk Midrange 2-0
This dude ran Reapers instead of DD (which is way less of a threat) and boarded in Sin Collectors after I burned him out with helixs G1 (which is a mistake, he got nothing both times). Didn't see any golgari charms, luckily for me.
Match 2 - vs. Glolgari Hexproof 2-0
Not sure if this deck is gaining popularity, I've seen it pop up on mtgo-stats.com but have never played it until tonight. G1 I just basically out raced him/burned him out, and G2 I got ATL just in time to stop his 9/9 hexproof lifelinker. With Purphoros out, I eventually won. God I love that combo.
Match 3 - vs. Naya Aggro 1-2
This deck was really good, but I have to believe its high variance with the 3 colro requirement and so many gold cards. Regardless he drew well enough in two games to beat me. G3 was super close, we both ended up in top deck mode and he cast Advent of the wurm for the win, I didnt see it in either G1 or 2.
Match 4 - vs. Esper : 2-1
PHENOMENAL G3. My SB plan vs. Esper is basically to dump your whole board in:
Anyways, this can be a tough matchup, the goal is basically to get ATL/Purphoros to stick or Elspeth/Purph. With an aggressive early game, and the threat of phoenix's/burn they will usually save the DT spheres for Purphoros and the Phoenix's. They'll let ATL resolve because Jace can brick it. At that point if you can resolve an apparition and blow the DT sphere holding Purph before ATL triggers, you can usually get in for lethal, since the counters have been building up all game, and Purph's ability negates Jace's +1. This is EXACTLY how I won this match. It was glorious.
So yeah, if anyone cares, there's my daily reports. If they decide to not screw all of us over and not eliminate dailies on mtgo, I'll keep playing this, its very solid right now. If they don't bring back dailies, you'll never hear from me on this board again. meh.
You run 4 Strombreath Dragon with Nykthos to be able to do things like play the dragon and monstrous it in the same turn. So let's say against Esper they resolved Sphinx's Rev and has a full book in hand. If they tap out to do anything, you get your gob of mana and proceed to do damage to them that is 7 + 7, negating the lifegain of their Rev and beating them in the face for 7.
For variants using Fanatic of Mogis, it allows you to do "stupid pet tricks" with Burning-Tree Emissary: with only 2 lands, you can go BTE, BTE, BTE, play Nykthos, taap Nykthos plus thee two floating for 6 mana, play Fanatic, do 7 damage, use the two floating for Magma Jet for a total of 9, and Scry 2. With only 2 BTE you can still do "The Full Mogis" for 5 damage turn 3 with three creatures now on the field (and chances are, you had a Cackler and a Zealot on the field from turns 1 and 2, so really, the damage is very high.)
Of course, if your opponent can't do anything about your board of Cackler, Zealot, 2 BTE, and a Fanatic, with 2 Mountain and a Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, turn 4 you can produce a minimum of 8 mana, and possibly more, to drop Reckoner and Stormbreath Dragon in the same turn. Unless they have ramped into a turn 4 Mortars or they have Verdict, that board state is GG.
If you don't want to exploit BTE, Fanatic, and Stormbreath, then Nykthos is pointless. With that combo, however, it allows for explosive early games.
You run 4 Strombreath Dragon with Nykthos to be able to do things like play the dragon and monstrous it in the same turn. So let's say against Esper they resolved Sphinx's Rev and has a full book in hand. If they tap out to do anything, you get your gob of mana and proceed to do damage to them that is 7 + 7, negating the lifegain of their Rev and beating them in the face for 7.
For variants using Fanatic of Mogis, it allows you to do "stupid pet tricks" with Burning-Tree Emissary: with only 2 lands, you can go BTE, BTE, BTE, play Nykthos, taap Nykthos plus thee two floating for 6 mana, play Fanatic, do 7 damage, use the two floating for Magma Jet for a total of 9, and Scry 2. With only 2 BTE you can still do "The Full Mogis" for 5 damage turn 3 with three creatures now on the field (and chances are, you had a Cackler and a Zealot on the field from turns 1 and 2, so really, the damage is very high.)
Of course, if your opponent can't do anything about your board of Cackler, Zealot, 2 BTE, and a Fanatic, with 2 Mountain and a Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, turn 4 you can produce a minimum of 8 mana, and possibly more, to drop Reckoner and Stormbreath Dragon in the same turn. Unless they have ramped into a turn 4 Mortars or they have Verdict, that board state is GG.
If you don't want to exploit BTE, Fanatic, and Stormbreath, then Nykthos is pointless. With that combo, however, it allows for explosive early games.
I prefer my build atm, since it has no bad matchups, and is tuneable to whichever matchup you're in, post SB and midgame as well. It sacrifices explosiveness and a bit of aggression for inevitability and consistency.
The Nykthos R deck is straight red dev., which really only has one gameplan, and is very weak to sweepers and instant speed spot removal. It also tends to be high variance, since your only way to go over the top in control and midrange matchups is usually with Nykthos, if you don't draw it, too bad. I've beat this deck a lot, largely due to a turn 3 or 4 Anger of The Gods, with mortars backup for dragons. To be fair, if you stumble against this deck, or don't have enough early removal for their RR dudes and they can get Nykthos going by turn 4, you're screwed. I've been blown out by this deck a lot of games.
You run 4 Strombreath Dragon with Nykthos to be able to do things like play the dragon and monstrous it in the same turn. So let's say against Esper they resolved Sphinx's Rev and has a full book in hand. If they tap out to do anything, you get your gob of mana and proceed to do damage to them that is 7 + 7, negating the lifegain of their Rev and beating them in the face for 7.
This doesn't happen. You don't have gobs of mana available when they tap out for Sphinx's Rev. And, they don't Sphinx for 7 and then tap out for something else, they don't need all their mana for whatever they are doing on the next few turns. And, what they are doing is generally taking care of any remaining threats you have, which brings us back to the part about you not having gobs of mana.
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"Because we cannot prevent draws in paper Magic we allow IDs. If we could prevent draws we would not have IDs in paper Magic. " Scott Larabee.
This doesn't happen. You don't have gobs of mana available when they tap out for Sphinx's Rev. And, they don't Sphinx for 7 and then tap out for something else, they don't need all their mana for whatever they are doing on the next few turns. And, what they are doing is generally taking care of any remaining threats you have, which brings us back to the part about you not having gobs of mana.
Agreed, since this assume you have a board full of R devotion sources against Esper, which almost never happens.
Esper is a bad example, maybe the worst actually. But a bad example does not change the fact that is a possible sequence against a lot of decks and a reason to run Nykthos. It just will likely be for less than a full book worth of damage.
It also does not change the fact that Nykthos is value in this deck if you are built around exploiting it, which was the point of my reply.
@NoHeavenNoHell
Don't get me wrong, your build seems fine. I was just replying to why the Boros Devotion deck in Dallas used Nykthos by design, whereas for your build I agree it is pretty marginal in utility.
I really love Warleader's Helix and Magma Jet right now, btw. Removal/lifegain is great, and the scry 2 is really, really helpful.
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Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
This is what I am working on right now, which is more Big Red/Red Devotion splash white than Purphoros combo. As most people have said, Purphoros combo is too cute and win more for my liking. It looks fun to do to an opponent, but probably not so efficient.
This is a Red Devotion deck, very similar to those being discussed in the Red Devotion thread. I haven't seen any other list with 4 Boros Charm in the main, but other than that, pretty normal Red Devotion stuff. You're only different from Jared LaCombe's 2nd place deck in Dallas last weekend by about 4 cards.
This is what I am working on right now, which is more Big Red/Red Devotion splash white than Purphoros combo. As most people have said, Purphoros combo is too cute and win more for my liking. It looks fun to do to an opponent, but probably not so efficient.
After playing around with some weenie rush builds and more stock versions of Boros devotion decks, I came back to this deck and have been doing consistently well lately. I think the list is just straight up better than Boros devotion. It has inevitability on its side, is highly tunable, and is extremely consistent. Stock Boros lists are just way too high variance.
After playing around with some weenie rush builds and more stock versions of Boros devotion decks, I came back to this deck and have been doing consistently well lately. I think the list is just straight up better than Boros devotion. It has inevitability on its side, is highly tunable, and is extremely consistent. Stock Boros lists are just way too high variance.
I think you are wasting a ton of potential in the hope of looking a bit different than everyone else. What possible reason would you play 4 plains in a deck like this? Elspeth? You are a control deck so at least help the mana by using a couple more guildgates and mountains instead.
You are also wasting the potential of the dragon and Purphoros by not playing Nykthos. Any land that allows excess mana production has the potential to break games wide open. You ignore this in the hopes of a better chance at turn 6 Elspeth? I'd rather run a couple Legion's Initiative to make my creatures a bit stronger and ensure my MBD game was more solid.
Also, Hammer is much worse if you are not going to use devotion. With your very, very low creature count, hammer just isn't very effective.
I think you are wasting a ton of potential in the hope of looking a bit different than everyone else. What possible reason would you play 4 plains in a deck like this? Elspeth? You are a control deck so at least help the mana by using a couple more guildgates and mountains instead.
You are also wasting the potential of the dragon and Purphoros by not playing Nykthos. Any land that allows excess mana production has the potential to break games wide open. You ignore this in the hopes of a better chance at turn 6 Elspeth? I'd rather run a couple Legion's Initiative to make my creatures a bit stronger and ensure my MBD game was more solid.
Also, Hammer is much worse if you are not going to use devotion. With your very, very low creature count, hammer just isn't very effective.
First off, this deck isn't an attempt to look different, its an attempt to be better than existing decks by tweaking for the meta.
Nykthos is too high variance, and after running the stock Boros Devotion 4x Nykthos list for a while, I dislike it. Its super explosive when it works, but too high variance for my tastes, and I think its an inferior deck, overall. I tried running 1x and 2x Nykthos in this deck as well, and for every 1 game that it actually did something, there were 4 that it made my mana clunky and did nothing. I would rather have the singleton Mutavault, it does more work than playing the Nykthos lottery.
The mana base for this deck is ridiculously consistent. I repeat, RIDICULOUSLY CONSISTENT (4 magma jets go a long way towards this, I will admit), which is one reason I favor this deck far more than the other Boros lists. And yes, a turn 6 Elspeth is indeed that important. Elspeth is one of the primary reasons I'm running this deck, instead of other options, she's one of the most powerful cards in standard right now, especially alongside Purphoros and any deck that utilizes Anger of The Gods.
A singleton Hammer is in the SB for control exclusively for the 3/3 ability. Thats it. Not sure why that's even worth commenting on. And as far as Legion's Initiative goes, not sure why you're remotely suggesting that for this list except possibly as a win-more card with Purph. I run a measly 14 creatures (4 of which are recursive and therefore expendable early game). What use is an anthem effect that needs to be sac.ed to save a creature? Elspeth is vastly superior. She's the #2 card I want to see against MBD (chained is #1) as it is, she provides fodder to sac to DD, and straight up blows DDs up if necessary. She also blows up Stormbreath and Blood Baron. Combine that with the ability to blast for 6 to the dome every turn if Purph is out, and its kind of a no-brainer.
INTRODUCTION: This deck is a result of preying on the current MTGO standard meta, and it is very, very well positioned right now. The deck is at its core a tempo based Red devotion deck based around Purphoros However, it also utilizes sweepers, burn-based removal and scrying to smooth draws and help set up its endgame which is the Purphoros/Assemble the Legion combo.
At the moment, after the recent pro tour, Mono blue devotion decks have begun to pop up like crazy alongside already popular red aggro decks to make up a large percentage of the MTGO meta. Both of these decks, along with G/W tempo decks and any weenie strategy, are susceptible to sweepers, cheap removal, and efficient creatures. This deck is EXCELLENT against the aforementioned decks, and also has a favorable matchup against Mono Black devotion, most midrange decks, and is decent vs. control especially after SB. Control is our worst matchup, Mono-U devotion and red aggro are our best. I've been testing this deck over the past few days, and have two 3-1 records to show for it in dailies, one of which should have been a 4-0 (the final match was against Mono-U, but I had to mull heavy in two of the three games).
DECK:
4x Boros Reckoner
4x Chandra's Phoenix
1x Ember Swallower
3x Purphoros, God of the Forge
1x Archangel of Thune
4x Chained to the Rocks
4x Magma Jet
1x Mizzium Mortars
3x Anger of the Gods
3x Warleader Helix
3x Assemble the Legion
4x Sacred Foundry
4x Temple of Triumph
2x Boros Guildgate
1x Mutavault
9x Mountain
6x Plains
1x Assemble the Legion
2x Boros Charm
1x Glare of Heresy
2x Hammer of Purphoros
3x Mizzium Mortars
1x Ratchet Bomb
2x Skullcrack
1x Warleader's Helix
1x Wear//Tear
COMMENTS: I will work on this primer more when I get time next week, but the basic idea of the deck is to stall (frostburn) or remove (magma jet) early threats, set of a x/3 sweeper if needed on turn 3 or 4 (its ok to torch a Reckoner, but watch out for the Phoenix's since they get exiled off of AOTG), and move towards a Purphoros/Legion combo or just a Purporos devotion game state.
Key cards in the deck are pretty much all the creatures to enable Purphoros, Chained to the Rocks to deal with Thassa and Des. Demon, Magma Jet to scry away land and extra Purphoros/remove early threats/dig for land and purphoros.
The SB I'm working with now is largely for control (since they turn Chained to the Rocks, Anger of The Gods, and Mortars largely into blanks), Wear//Tear is for Mono B, Mizz mortars are mainly for Blood Baron and extra 2 drop removal.
Problems: The deck is weak to planeswalkers, we really have no good way to get to them aside from burn, ratchet bomb, and glare (Elspeth). The deck also can malfunction if its hit with early hand disruption (Thoughtseize) since we rely on a good amount of card synergy.
Things to work on: I would like to find a place for a second Ember Swallower; his stats are great, the RR is key, and he deals with Baron. I'm leery about putting another 4 drop in though, the cut would likely be a Phoenix demoted to the SB. Elspeth might have a place here as well, but not sure if she's just a win-more card in every matchup but control, she could replace an Assemble MD though. The SB is a work in progress, another Wear//Tear might need to be added if Mono B keeps becoming popular.
Standard:
RW Boros devotion/Purphoros combo
RGB Jund Midrange
Modern:
WB Martyr.proc
i agree with that. if assemble the legion sticks multiple turns you most likely win anyway.
i mean i like purphoros and i play him by myself, but assemble+purphoros really sounds like winmore for me.
That being said the deck is soft to control and midrange strategies without purphoros and ATL. That combo (and phoenix's) is kind of the finisher vs. midrange and control. Versus Mono U and R I side out ATL anyway, it is very much a win more card in aggro matchups, and I would rather have more removal or an ember swallower in its place. The more I play with him, I like Purphoros more and more. I don't think he's suited for hard aggro strategies, but in this deck, he's great. He nullifies Jace's +1 pretty damn effectively too.
Mono B matchups have been going really well. Anger takes out Specters and Zombies, and chained (and ATL) deals with DD. Another Wear//Tear might be needed to help clear up Underworld Connections and the Whip, since you want to keep their board as clear as possible to minimize the impact of the Merchant coming down. I thought about Stormbreath Dragons; they help activate Purphoros, and have an immediate impact when they come down, but vs. aggro I would usually rather have an Archangel there. I dunno. I might play around with it, definitely something worth keeping in mind.
I've been off the grid all last week, I'll try and get some more dailies in over the next few days. Looking at mtgo-stats today, I still think the deck is really really well positioned at the moment, and probably will be for some time.
Standard:
RW Boros devotion/Purphoros combo
RGB Jund Midrange
Modern:
WB Martyr.proc
Agreed, if you don't have Purphoros out. Purphoros nullifies Jace's +1 anyway, and the cumulative ETB damage from the tokens coming in wins games without even needing to attack in a lot of cases. I've played a LOT of games with this deck, against a lot of Jace's. He's a non-issue most times.
Standard:
RW Boros devotion/Purphoros combo
RGB Jund Midrange
Modern:
WB Martyr.proc
Most of those lists use Chandra in the 4 slot instead of Purphoros, and don't use ATL. Most of those lists also get rolled fairly easily by Mono R and Mono U aggro decks as well, since they can't outrace them and don't use Anger of the gods (and if they do, it usually torches a lot of their own creatures). Hero's downfall in Mono B also makes Chandra useless in many cases.
Standard:
RW Boros devotion/Purphoros combo
RGB Jund Midrange
Modern:
WB Martyr.proc
—Jaya Ballard, task mage
I have this feeling you're playing the Red Devotion deck wrong if you think they lose that easy to MBD and RDW.
Here's the list I've been running up until I bailed on it (explanation to follow), almost identical to the above but with some tweaks:
4x Boros Reckoner
4x Chandra's Phoenix
1x Ember Swallower
3x Purphoros, God of the Forge
1x Archangel of Thune
1x Stormbreath Dragon
1x Elspeth, Suns Champion
4x Chained to the Rocks
4x Magma Jet
1x Mizzium Mortars
2x Anger of the Gods
3x Warleader Helix
2x Assemble the Legion
4x Sacred Foundry
4x Temple of Triumph
1x Boros Guildgate
1x Mutavault
11x Mountain
4x Plains
1x Assemble the Legion
2x Boros Charm
1x Glare of Heresy
2x Hammer of Purphoros
3x Mizzium Mortars
1x Ratchet Bomb
2x Skullcrack
1x Warleader's Helix
1x Wear//Tear
First off, I like this deck more than the other "Big Red" builds if you want to call it that. This deck is a lot more adaptable to whatever matchup your in, you're not committed to bashing away automatically, and you can play the beatdown or control as you see fit.
Anyways.... In MTGO dailies, Mono-B devotion is nuts right now. I just went against 4 Black devotion decks in a row in the 7pm daily. This deck has a good matchup against Mono-B, but its not great, probably 60/40 at best depending on the build. Purphoros/Assemble/Espeth is really the key to beating them, since you can sac 1/1s to Des demon all day and they can't interact with ATL or Purph.
However, a lot of Mono B decks are adding G for abrupt decay and Golgari Charm, to help with the mirror and against Esper. Some Mono-B devotion pilots are also just running straight up Junk builds with decay, Sylvan Caryatid, multiple Whips, and Obzedat (ahem, me.) This deck can't beat that. Abrupt decay turns Chained to the Rocks into a combat trick in their favor, and golgari charm nukes ATL and Chained. I'm pretty much putting this build on hold until the MTGO meta changes. The deck still sucks against Esper too.
Anyways, if you play in a meta that is primarily aggro and midrange, give this a shot. Its phenomenal against Mono R, Mono U, G/R nykthos, G/U Nykthos, and Big Red. Its ok vs. Orzhov Mid. If you play in a meta that is Mono-B and Esper, stay away from this.
Standard:
RW Boros devotion/Purphoros combo
RGB Jund Midrange
Modern:
WB Martyr.proc
I play 4 mortars and 4 chained as my removal and the rest is basically the same. Warleaders is in the sb since its really situational. You can expect to overload mortars most games and anything smaller is easily blocked by ash/frostburn
4 Fanatic of Mogis
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Ash Zealot
3 Purphoros, God of the Forge
3 Hammer of Purphoros
4 Mizzium Mortars
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Frostburn Weird
2 Assemble the Legion
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
2 Debtor's Pulpit
1 Pithing Needle
2 Act of Treason
2 Burning Earth
2 Assemble the Legion
3 Wear/Tear
3 Warleader's Helix
Current list. Really needs to lose 1 mortar/1 chained/1 frostburn for 3 stormbreath. Alot of the time it plays out as
2 Drop
Hammer/Reckoner
Purphoros/Mogis
Assemble
Problem is that they end up nuking your reckoner and the combined left over cards don't provide 5. Being able to drop a dragon and swing 10 would be great. Unfortunately I don't have 45 tix sitting around to test this atm. Will do if I win a few more dailies though.
Biggest problem is actually control. 8 Dead removal spells at the start and all they have to do is sphere your ATL/Purphoros. Games 2 is alot better once you add Debtor's/Pithing/assemble/wear//tear and remove all 8 removal.
Things to consider:
Magma Jet - This deck mulls like crap, Mortars is a boss but so is this. Almost thinking 3 mortars in SB instead of warleaders helix and Jet MB.
Madcap Skulls - Cute on purphoros since you know he isn't going to be removed. Only adds 1 devotion though =/
Boros Charm/Rootborn - Both actually seem bad since rarely do you have mana open to use them properly. Boros Charm has more utility, Rootborn is cute with a hammer.
EDIT: Just finished first daily event with this. Ironically ended up getting reimbursed when I dced playing for 3-1. I stomped mono b, g/r aggro and lost to a mono b who turn 2 packrat both games and spammed them. Sadly losing to mana screw when I was unable to T2 a chained to the rocks to remove it.
Game 4 I played someone playing mono r with a splash for chained and using dragons. Felt like the mirror. Sadly lost game 1 to him dropping double dragons and beating me from 20-0 without drawing a mortars to overload. He won with 2 health. Then the client decided to fail and I filed for reimbursement =/
I think I really need to get some dragons =/
I've been unimpressed with my singleton Stormbreath so far. He's ok, but the games I win with him, I already have locked up in most cases, and in close games where I need an out or some kind of board presence, he eats a removal spell.
One thing you might want to look into is Phoenix's. Recurring, Purphoros damage trigger and adds RR for devotion. They're great in almost every matchup other than straight aggro, and even then its a 2/2 blocker that you can recur. Basically phoenix's are how I beat control a lot of the time, they're only answer is DT spheres, but they usually save them for Assemble and Purphoros, so burn/Phoenix's go a long way.
On a related note, Magama Jet rules. Singlehandedly makes a lot of mull hands keepable. The scry is super important, and you need to do something with your mana on turn 2 in most cases if you don't have a two drop. They get better with Phoenix's, obviously.
I run Keening apparition instead of Wear//Tear. Wear//Tear is better vs. Mono-B maybe, since you can occasionaly nuke a whip and connections at the same time, but the ETB trigger with Purphoros makes it a little better I think.
Not sure why people like Hammer so much. I only want it against control, most other matchups it ends up being a dead card.
Jace doesn't do anything against Purphoros, for 3 mana you can negate his +1 entirely.
My biggest problem with Mono-B isn't illness in the ranks (which is a really narrow card and can be dealt with), it's that a lot of them are running G/B versions now. Sylvan Caryatid blanks Reckoner, Abrupt Decay turns a chained Des. Demon into a combat trick in their favor, and Golgari Charm blows up Assemble the Legion. If more people start running the splash G version of Mono black dev., I would quit running this. There's really no way to win that matchup without just abandoning the whole concept of the deck.
Anyways, if you run this in more dailies, keep posting your results. My last try with this deck I went 2-2 on Tuesday, I played against FOUR mono B decks. The two I lost to splashed green.
I think I'm going to cut the archangels, and add a couple of Ash Zealots in the SB. Aggro matchups, including Mono U are already pretty winnable without the archangel, and I want a faster clock against control and Mono B. The first strike will let me use Helix's/Magma jet in combat against Demons/Specters too, this deck really needs another way to remove DD other than chained.
Standard:
RW Boros devotion/Purphoros combo
RGB Jund Midrange
Modern:
WB Martyr.proc
Mono B is on the decline, aggro is up again, so this is a good choice again atm.
Here's my current list that I ran in both events:
4x Frostburn Weird
4x Boros Reckoner
4x Chandra's Phoenix
1x Ember Swallower
3x Purphoros, God of the Forge
1x Stormbreath Dragon
1x Elspeth, Suns Champion
4x Chained to the Rocks
4x Magma Jet
1x Mizzium Mortars
2x Anger of the Gods
3x Warleader Helix
2x Assemble the Legion
4x Temple of Triumph
1x Boros Guildgate
1x Mutavault
11x Mountain
4x Plains
2x Anger of the Gods
1x Assemble the Legion
1x Glare of Heresy
1x Hammer of Purphoros
3x Mizzium Mortars
2x Skullcrack
3x Keening Apparition
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
Tourney 1: 11/10/13
Match 1 - vs. G/R ramp: 2-0
This matchup is pretty easy, everything has 4 toughness, and phoenixs fly over everything to hit the walkers. Side in swallowers/mortars side out a couple magma jets and the Zealot. Neither game was close.
Match 2 - vs. R/W aggro: 2-0
Similiar deck to mine, but more aggro with more reliance on 1 drops and Boros Charms. Side out Elspeth 1 Purphoros and ATL, side in mortars, 2 anger of the god. This is generally the SB for all aggro matchups too. Favorable matchup.
Match 3 - vs. Junk midrange: 2-0
To be fair any deck running abrupt decays/golgari charms is a pain. Decays make chained worthless, and golgari charm wipes out ATL. Both of those cards are necessary in midrange matchups. Anyway, basically I topdecked Elspeth to wipe the board of 4/xs in G2 for the win, and G1 I got in beats early, and swung through the air to finish after removing threats.
Match 4 - vs. Red devotion: 0-2
I know this deck, I played with this deck, if it draws right, there's almost nothing you can do. He got Nykthos out both games, multiple fanatics, etc. G2, he vomited his whole hand out on turn 4. The straight up red dev. deck is high variance though, so when it works its nuts, when it doesn't, it sucks.
Tourney 2: 11/12/2013
Match 1 - vs. Junk Midrange 2-0
This dude ran Reapers instead of DD (which is way less of a threat) and boarded in Sin Collectors after I burned him out with helixs G1 (which is a mistake, he got nothing both times). Didn't see any golgari charms, luckily for me.
Match 2 - vs. Glolgari Hexproof 2-0
Not sure if this deck is gaining popularity, I've seen it pop up on mtgo-stats.com but have never played it until tonight. G1 I just basically out raced him/burned him out, and G2 I got ATL just in time to stop his 9/9 hexproof lifelinker. With Purphoros out, I eventually won. God I love that combo.
Match 3 - vs. Naya Aggro 1-2
This deck was really good, but I have to believe its high variance with the 3 colro requirement and so many gold cards. Regardless he drew well enough in two games to beat me. G3 was super close, we both ended up in top deck mode and he cast Advent of the wurm for the win, I didnt see it in either G1 or 2.
Match 4 - vs. Esper : 2-1
PHENOMENAL G3. My SB plan vs. Esper is basically to dump your whole board in:
+3 Keening, +1 Glare, +1 Assemble, +1 Zealot, +1 Hammer, + 2 Mortars (if there's barons, which he had), + 1 Chandra, +2 Skullcrack, -4 Reckoner, -4 Chained, -2 Anger, -1 Ember, -1 Magma Jet (only if they're running multiple Barons)
Anyways, this can be a tough matchup, the goal is basically to get ATL/Purphoros to stick or Elspeth/Purph. With an aggressive early game, and the threat of phoenix's/burn they will usually save the DT spheres for Purphoros and the Phoenix's. They'll let ATL resolve because Jace can brick it. At that point if you can resolve an apparition and blow the DT sphere holding Purph before ATL triggers, you can usually get in for lethal, since the counters have been building up all game, and Purph's ability negates Jace's +1. This is EXACTLY how I won this match. It was glorious.
So yeah, if anyone cares, there's my daily reports. If they decide to not screw all of us over and not eliminate dailies on mtgo, I'll keep playing this, its very solid right now. If they don't bring back dailies, you'll never hear from me on this board again. meh.
Standard:
RW Boros devotion/Purphoros combo
RGB Jund Midrange
Modern:
WB Martyr.proc
For variants using Fanatic of Mogis, it allows you to do "stupid pet tricks" with Burning-Tree Emissary: with only 2 lands, you can go BTE, BTE, BTE, play Nykthos, taap Nykthos plus thee two floating for 6 mana, play Fanatic, do 7 damage, use the two floating for Magma Jet for a total of 9, and Scry 2. With only 2 BTE you can still do "The Full Mogis" for 5 damage turn 3 with three creatures now on the field (and chances are, you had a Cackler and a Zealot on the field from turns 1 and 2, so really, the damage is very high.)
Of course, if your opponent can't do anything about your board of Cackler, Zealot, 2 BTE, and a Fanatic, with 2 Mountain and a Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, turn 4 you can produce a minimum of 8 mana, and possibly more, to drop Reckoner and Stormbreath Dragon in the same turn. Unless they have ramped into a turn 4 Mortars or they have Verdict, that board state is GG.
If you don't want to exploit BTE, Fanatic, and Stormbreath, then Nykthos is pointless. With that combo, however, it allows for explosive early games.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I prefer my build atm, since it has no bad matchups, and is tuneable to whichever matchup you're in, post SB and midgame as well. It sacrifices explosiveness and a bit of aggression for inevitability and consistency.
The Nykthos R deck is straight red dev., which really only has one gameplan, and is very weak to sweepers and instant speed spot removal. It also tends to be high variance, since your only way to go over the top in control and midrange matchups is usually with Nykthos, if you don't draw it, too bad. I've beat this deck a lot, largely due to a turn 3 or 4 Anger of The Gods, with mortars backup for dragons. To be fair, if you stumble against this deck, or don't have enough early removal for their RR dudes and they can get Nykthos going by turn 4, you're screwed. I've been blown out by this deck a lot of games.
Standard:
RW Boros devotion/Purphoros combo
RGB Jund Midrange
Modern:
WB Martyr.proc
This doesn't happen. You don't have gobs of mana available when they tap out for Sphinx's Rev. And, they don't Sphinx for 7 and then tap out for something else, they don't need all their mana for whatever they are doing on the next few turns. And, what they are doing is generally taking care of any remaining threats you have, which brings us back to the part about you not having gobs of mana.
Agreed, since this assume you have a board full of R devotion sources against Esper, which almost never happens.
Standard:
RW Boros devotion/Purphoros combo
RGB Jund Midrange
Modern:
WB Martyr.proc
It also does not change the fact that Nykthos is value in this deck if you are built around exploiting it, which was the point of my reply.
@NoHeavenNoHell
Don't get me wrong, your build seems fine. I was just replying to why the Boros Devotion deck in Dallas used Nykthos by design, whereas for your build I agree it is pretty marginal in utility.
I really love Warleader's Helix and Magma Jet right now, btw. Removal/lifegain is great, and the scry 2 is really, really helpful.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I think using cards like Stormbreath Dragon and Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx is a must, specially because I include Aurelia's Fury.
4 Ash Zealot
4 Fanatic of Mogis
4 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Frostburn Weird
4 Boros Reckoner
INSTANTS (5):
4 Boros Charm
1 Aurelia's Fury
1 Chained to the Rocks
2 Hammer of Purphoros
1 Assemble the Legion
LANDS (23):
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
11 Mountain
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Burning Earth
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Mizzium Mortars
3 Chained to the Rocks
2 Warleader's Helix
2 Wear // Tear
2 Assemble the Legion
I 4-0d a DE yesterday with the following:
4x Boros Reckoner
4x Chandra's Phoenix
2x Stormbreath Dragon
3x Purphoros, God of the Forge
4x Magma Jet
2x Mizzium Mortars
2x Warleader's Helix
2x Anger of the Gods
4x Chained to the Rocks
1x Assemble the Legion
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
2x Elspeth, Suns Champion
4x Temple of Triumph
4x Sacred Foundry
1x Boros Guildgate
1x Mutavault
4x Plains
11x Mountain
1x Ash Zealot
2x Assemble the Legion
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
1x Glare of Heresy
1x Hammer of Purphoros
3x Keening Apparition
2x Mizzium Mortars
2x Skullcrack
Standard:
RW Boros devotion/Purphoros combo
RGB Jund Midrange
Modern:
WB Martyr.proc
I think you are wasting a ton of potential in the hope of looking a bit different than everyone else. What possible reason would you play 4 plains in a deck like this? Elspeth? You are a control deck so at least help the mana by using a couple more guildgates and mountains instead.
You are also wasting the potential of the dragon and Purphoros by not playing Nykthos. Any land that allows excess mana production has the potential to break games wide open. You ignore this in the hopes of a better chance at turn 6 Elspeth? I'd rather run a couple Legion's Initiative to make my creatures a bit stronger and ensure my MBD game was more solid.
Also, Hammer is much worse if you are not going to use devotion. With your very, very low creature count, hammer just isn't very effective.
First off, this deck isn't an attempt to look different, its an attempt to be better than existing decks by tweaking for the meta.
Nykthos is too high variance, and after running the stock Boros Devotion 4x Nykthos list for a while, I dislike it. Its super explosive when it works, but too high variance for my tastes, and I think its an inferior deck, overall. I tried running 1x and 2x Nykthos in this deck as well, and for every 1 game that it actually did something, there were 4 that it made my mana clunky and did nothing. I would rather have the singleton Mutavault, it does more work than playing the Nykthos lottery.
The mana base for this deck is ridiculously consistent. I repeat, RIDICULOUSLY CONSISTENT (4 magma jets go a long way towards this, I will admit), which is one reason I favor this deck far more than the other Boros lists. And yes, a turn 6 Elspeth is indeed that important. Elspeth is one of the primary reasons I'm running this deck, instead of other options, she's one of the most powerful cards in standard right now, especially alongside Purphoros and any deck that utilizes Anger of The Gods.
A singleton Hammer is in the SB for control exclusively for the 3/3 ability. Thats it. Not sure why that's even worth commenting on. And as far as Legion's Initiative goes, not sure why you're remotely suggesting that for this list except possibly as a win-more card with Purph. I run a measly 14 creatures (4 of which are recursive and therefore expendable early game). What use is an anthem effect that needs to be sac.ed to save a creature? Elspeth is vastly superior. She's the #2 card I want to see against MBD (chained is #1) as it is, she provides fodder to sac to DD, and straight up blows DDs up if necessary. She also blows up Stormbreath and Blood Baron. Combine that with the ability to blast for 6 to the dome every turn if Purph is out, and its kind of a no-brainer.
Standard:
RW Boros devotion/Purphoros combo
RGB Jund Midrange
Modern:
WB Martyr.proc