The problem is when you don't have that answer to anger of the gods (brave the elements) or supreme verdict (rootborn defenses/boros charm) you have probably lost the game as white wheenie has hard time to climb back and little to no card advantage.
Even worse those decks that run blue/white or blue/red might likely pack dispel or swan song to counter the answer, which would give WW another turn to win but I somehow doubt that the tempo of white wheenie is enough to consistently win games before midrange takes over or a sweeper hits your board.
Sleeve it up and try. Turn 4 kills are possible even without dumping your hand. I actually think a deck has a great shot of doing well if they MUST have their 4of answer in the first few turns of the deck.
Also, see Immortal Servitude casting it for 4 after wrath and getting back 2-3 one drops has proven back breaking in my testing.
Sleeve it up and try. Turn 4 kills are possible even without dumping your hand. I actually think a deck has a great shot of doing well if they MUST have their 4of answer in the first few turns of the deck.
Also, see Immortal Servitude casting it for 4 after wrath and getting back 2-3 one drops has proven back breaking in my testing.
Don't splash red to white for Chained to the Rocks - you'll have maybe 8 Mountains total.
Now a white weenie deck that can reliably splash red for burn could possibly be a thing, but between the current mana situation not lending itself to multicolored Aggro, the glut of good weenie removal, white's lack of weenie creatures that make an impact the turn they ETB, and the new spoiled sweeper I'm just not seeing it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
—Jaya Ballard, task mage
redthirst is redthirst, fifth Horseman of the Apocalypse. He was the leader of the Fires of Salvation, the only clan I'm aware of to get modded off the forums so hard they made their own forums.
Degenerate? Sure. Loudmouth? You bet. Law abiding? No ****ing way.
Some of my opinions/notes:
Any number of Mutavaults seems wrong when you are trying to curve W into WW into WWW.
My version has 11 First Strike creatures
Fiendslayer + Archangel makes for awkward blocks
Brave the Elements or Calvary Pegasus allow for some insane all in attacks.
I'm not 100% sold on the 3 Elspeth, but I wanted something for control matchups.
Martial Glory is one of two cards which triggers Heroic twice
Just want to clarify that, from what I understand, Martial Glory will not trigger Heroic twice on the same creature. Heroic says: "Whenever you cast a spell that targets" not "Whenever you target" so since Martial Glory is still only one spell, it will only trigger one instance of Heroic.
Of course, if you have two different Heroic creatures you can target them both with Martial Glory and still get two Heroic triggers.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
—Jaya Ballard, task mage
redthirst is redthirst, fifth Horseman of the Apocalypse. He was the leader of the Fires of Salvation, the only clan I'm aware of to get modded off the forums so hard they made their own forums.
Degenerate? Sure. Loudmouth? You bet. Law abiding? No ****ing way.
Craig Westcoe really loves both Ajani and Gideon in these lists.
I know the general consensus is that Gideon is awful, but isn't there a strong argument that he is better than Heliod as a 4 slot finisher in this deck? Seems more likely that would be able to attack with a 5 power indestructible creature on turn 5 if you played Gideon over Heliod.
The thing is what did white wheenie get so far other than Soldier of the Pantheon that would make it viable right now when it was not really viable with Champion of the Parish before?
Fabled Hero, a good anthem effect, and scry lands. (aka slow multicolored decks) The rest of the makings were already there. The creature quality is better than reds and with a board wipe at 3 cmc you will need to be able put pressure with only 1-2 creatures against control. Red decks will still be a thing but I suspect it will be a burn deck rather than creature heavy aggro.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Check out my Sales 50% OFF everything for the next 48 hours.
I feel like the red splash is almost necessary. I run brave's in the board but they don't protect from supreme verdict. Being able to not almost auto fold to control is good. Open's up more sideboard options as well. Heliod is actually better then he looks. I can almost always slam him turn 4 and have him active turn 5 with all the double white. I think Heliod can come down to 3 copies though.
The thing is what did white wheenie get so far other than Soldier of the Pantheon that would make it viable right now when it was not really viable with Champion of the Parish before?
It isn't necessarily what ww got as much as how the format changes. The manabases make the opposition's advancement slow down by .5-1 turns leaving the format exposed to aggressive strategies. WW was nearly viable but with 8 duals that come in untapped (12 with cavern ) there was zero reason not to just play b/w humans or go big with g/w aggro, or crazy with naya blitz. Now aggro decks need to decide between speed and resilience they can't have both.
A strong 2 power 1 drop is something to pay attention to.
Glorius Anthem with upside is something I would have begged for in past formats.
Heliod is a beast.
For the record I am against any kind of splash. WW beats slower decks by going under them which you cannot do with tapped lands. I am also against running less than 8 one drops. I already mulligan any hand without a turn 1 play.
White Weenie needs pump to be viable.
Theres Spear of Heliod and Path of Bravery but thats about it.
The strength of White Weenie comes from swarms of small creatures that grow huge with pumping enchantments or creatures.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"If we don't know what we are doing, the enemy certainly can't anticipate our future actions!"
-Anonymous
White Weenie needs pump to be viable.
Theres Spear of Heliod and Path of Bravery but thats about it.
The strength of White Weenie comes from swarms of small creatures that grow huge with pumping enchantments or creatures.
I am going to have to disagree. You swarm, yes, but you don't need the pump. Even if there were three different Glorius Anthem effects you would not waste 12 slots on them. You cannot swarm by going one drop, two drop, anthem, anthem. You swarm by going one drop, two one drops, two drop or the like. You want a critical mass of weenies.
I personally prefer to splash red for Boros Charm. We also get an excellent mana sink in the form of Truefire Paladin. The charm can protect from supreme verdict better than rootborn defenses, and the 4-damage mode has won me several games.
And if you're not feeling the slight Heroic theme here, you can always replace Martial Glory with Brave the Elements and Phalanx Leader with Imposing Sovereign. It would probably look like a more traditional Boros Weenie deck at that point. However, I would like to point out there is a certain benefit to having a source of creature pump that can also attack, and Phalanx Leader can serve that role quite well.
I feel like the red splash is almost necessary. I run brave's in the board but they don't protect from supreme verdict. Being able to not almost auto fold to control is good. Open's up more sideboard options as well. Heliod is actually better then he looks. I can almost always slam him turn 4 and have him active turn 5 with all the double white. I think Heliod can come down to 3 copies though.
Even though it doesn't protect you from Supreme Verdict, Brave The Elements is still the better card 90% of the time. Being able to dodge removal spells, enchantments, and enable alpha strikes, is much better than making your creatures indestructible.
It's better if you can run both, but ATM with the mana bases I don't see a reason, nor a need to splash red, when you have access to cards such as Heliod, God of the Sun and Rootborn Defenses that you can leave in the side vs decks with supreme verdict.
Silliness aside I've been keeping an eye on what everyone is saying and tweaking my list here and there based on results and suggestions.
First off, I was wrong about Brave the Elements. I want to run like 9... but 4 will have to do. I still don't like God's Willing in the main, but I think every self respecting WW list should run Brave in the main.
Secondly, Cavalry Pegasus started out as a 2-of just for a another drop, and is now a 3-of in my list and I wish I could fit another. It's much stronger than I originally gave it credit for.
Thirdly, Mutavault, still awesome, but I don't want more than 2. Mostly because I dropped to 21 lands and may go lower than that soon.
Sideboard:
I really miss O-ring. Wear is not neccesary space but I occasionally see angelic accord/post decks and killing the accord is usually more than enough to get past their life gain. Tear is the only reason I would like to have access to red mana as many U/W lists bring in ratchet bomb, and being able to take out a bomb and a detention sphere would be hot sauce. Not worth twisting the mana base for though.
Fiendslayer is for Grixis or heavy removal packages, as is God willing, and he is very good at what he does.
Immortal Servitude is great against multiple sweeper.dek, moved to the side to make the main more aggressive.
Ajani number 3 comes in against many control decks as a way to help prevent over extending into wrath.
Medic number 4 comes in against green creature lists or revelation lists.
redthirst is redthirst, fifth Horseman of the Apocalypse. He was the leader of the Fires of Salvation, the only clan I'm aware of to get modded off the forums so hard they made their own forums.
Degenerate? Sure. Loudmouth? You bet. Law abiding? No ****ing way.
Sideboard:
I really miss O-ring. Wear is not neccesary space but I occasionally see angelic accord/post decks and killing the accord is usually more than enough to get past their life gain. Tear is the only reason I would like to have access to red mana as many U/W lists bring in ratchet bomb, and being able to take out a bomb and a detention sphere would be hot sauce. Not worth twisting the mana base for though.
Fiendslayer is for Grixis or heavy removal packages, as is God willing, and he is very good at what he does.
Immortal Servitude is great against multiple sweeper.dek, moved to the side to make the main more aggressive.
Ajani number 3 comes in against many control decks as a way to help prevent over extending into wrath.
Medic number 4 comes in against green creature lists or revelation lists.
I really like your list, it's awsome!
Don't you want some number of Banisher Priests in the sideboard though? What do you do against things like smiters, reckoners, or even hundred handed one?
Also on the sibject of reckoner, why not play him? Seems like he's insane against any creature deck.
I think that wear/tear will almost always be a dead card. It just doesn't make sense to me to bring in 4 cards to kill a d-sphere or ratchet bomb (and esspecially angelic accord).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
I really like your list, it's awsome!
Don't you want some number of Banisher Priests in the sideboard though? What do you do against things like smiters, reckoners, or even hundred handed one?
Also on the sibject of reckoner, why not play him? Seems like he's insane against any creature deck.
I think that wear/tear will almost always be a dead card. It just doesn't make sense to me to bring in 4 cards to kill a d-sphere or ratchet bomb (and esspecially angelic accord).
I agree w/ Banisher Priests, but I think maining the reckoner would disrupt the Cavalry Pegasus theme. Also Mutavault and Reckoner don't play too well together. There is no question it's powerful though.
I think maining the reckoner would disrupt the Cavalry Pegasus theme. Also Mutavault and Reckoner don't play too well together. There is no question it's powerful though.
That is true, maybe the pegasus is just better against creature decks anyways, since most playable creatures don't have flying or reach.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
I really like your list, it's awsome!
Don't you want some number of Banisher Priests in the sideboard though? What do you do against things like smiters, reckoners, or even hundred handed one?
Also on the sibject of reckoner, why not play him? Seems like he's insane against any creature deck.
I think that wear/tear will almost always be a dead card. It just doesn't make sense to me to bring in 4 cards to kill a d-sphere or ratchet bomb (and esspecially angelic accord).
> Banisher Preist: This is a meta call. I personally prefer Reckoner in the matchups where I would want BP. My list is winning because I am gong so far under the opposition. by the time I hit 3 mana, just letting reckoner hit their face is usually more valuable than removing a single blocker.
>Reckoner main? I only have 3 slots for a 3 drop in the main, and frontline medic is almost always better considering the swarm strategy I am using.
>Wear // Tear dead! Mostly, I agree. The other cards are used much more often. There just isn't anything I want more. I may very well exchange it for Keening Apparition so I can have an enchantment kill that swings, I really like that idea.
> Banisher Preist: This is a meta call. I personally prefer Reckoner in the matchups where I would want BP. My list is winning because I am gong so far under the opposition. by the time I hit 3 mana, just letting reckoner hit their face is usually more valuable than removing a single blocker.
>Reckoner main? I only have 3 slots for a 3 drop in the main, and frontline medic is almost always better considering the swarm strategy I am using.
>Wear // Tear dead! Mostly, I agree. The other cards are used much more often. There just isn't anything I want more. I may very well exchange it for Keening Apparition so I can have an enchantment kill that swings, I really like that idea.
I think if the Gods become a big thing, banisher priest is one of the few ways WW has the potential to deal with it after it devotion triggers. Something to consider unless white gets some other exile (oblivion ring replacement would be nice) or I'm missing something.
I think if the Gods become a big thing, banisher priest is one of the few ways WW has the potential to deal with it after it devotion triggers. Something to consider unless white gets some other exile (oblivion ring replacement would be nice) or I'm missing something.
This is very possible. One of the reasons I am doing well, though, is people are running 2 and 3 color monstrosities with many tapped lands. For the Gods to become a thing the meta will shift towards mono-colored decks and as such will speed up tremendously. In that meta, I don't think WW would be able to compete without significant alterations.
What about Fabled Hero? I haven't seen him talked about too much in WW discussion. Wouldn't he be an ideal replacement for Silverblade Paladin in WW lists? A 2/2 double-striker who can get bigger; what's not to like? Add Ethereal Armor to the list to activate the heroic ability. All of a sudden he becomes a 4/4 double strike; with all the other enchantments floating around THS, he can get crazy big!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"What doesn't grow, dies. And what dies grows the Tarmogoyf."
Current Decks: Modern: BRG Jund BRG Legacy: UBG BUG UBG
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Sleeve it up and try. Turn 4 kills are possible even without dumping your hand. I actually think a deck has a great shot of doing well if they MUST have their 4of answer in the first few turns of the deck.
Also, see Immortal Servitude casting it for 4 after wrath and getting back 2-3 one drops has proven back breaking in my testing.
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
This. Plus splashing red for Boros Charm and Chained To The Rocks and some Boros stuff is a great option.
Now a white weenie deck that can reliably splash red for burn could possibly be a thing, but between the current mana situation not lending itself to multicolored Aggro, the glut of good weenie removal, white's lack of weenie creatures that make an impact the turn they ETB, and the new spoiled sweeper I'm just not seeing it.
—Jaya Ballard, task mage
-1CC
4 Soldier of Patheon
4 Boros Elite
4 Precinct Captain
3 Calvary Pegasus
3 Banisher Priest
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Fiendslayer Paladin
2 Archangel of Thune
3 Brave the Elements
3 Heliod's Spear
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
23 Plains
1 Brave the Elements
4 Glare of Heresy
2 Elspeth
4 Imposing Sovereign
2 Rootborn Defense
1 Fiendslayer Paladin
1 Banisher Priest
Some of my opinions/notes:
Any number of Mutavaults seems wrong when you are trying to curve W into WW into WWW.
My version has 11 First Strike creatures
Fiendslayer + Archangel makes for awkward blocks
Brave the Elements or Calvary Pegasus allow for some insane all in attacks.
I'm not 100% sold on the 3 Elspeth, but I wanted something for control matchups.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
Just want to clarify that, from what I understand, Martial Glory will not trigger Heroic twice on the same creature. Heroic says: "Whenever you cast a spell that targets" not "Whenever you target" so since Martial Glory is still only one spell, it will only trigger one instance of Heroic.
Of course, if you have two different Heroic creatures you can target them both with Martial Glory and still get two Heroic triggers.
—Jaya Ballard, task mage
I know the general consensus is that Gideon is awful, but isn't there a strong argument that he is better than Heliod as a 4 slot finisher in this deck? Seems more likely that would be able to attack with a 5 power indestructible creature on turn 5 if you played Gideon over Heliod.
Fabled Hero, a good anthem effect, and scry lands. (aka slow multicolored decks) The rest of the makings were already there. The creature quality is better than reds and with a board wipe at 3 cmc you will need to be able put pressure with only 1-2 creatures against control. Red decks will still be a thing but I suspect it will be a burn deck rather than creature heavy aggro.
16 Plains
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
Creatures
4 Imposing Sovereign
4 Banisher Priest
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Precinct Captain
4 Fiendslayer Paladin
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Heliod, God of the Sun
4 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
4 Boros Charm
I feel like the red splash is almost necessary. I run brave's in the board but they don't protect from supreme verdict. Being able to not almost auto fold to control is good. Open's up more sideboard options as well. Heliod is actually better then he looks. I can almost always slam him turn 4 and have him active turn 5 with all the double white. I think Heliod can come down to 3 copies though.
It isn't necessarily what ww got as much as how the format changes. The manabases make the opposition's advancement slow down by .5-1 turns leaving the format exposed to aggressive strategies. WW was nearly viable but with 8 duals that come in untapped (12 with cavern ) there was zero reason not to just play b/w humans or go big with g/w aggro, or crazy with naya blitz. Now aggro decks need to decide between speed and resilience they can't have both.
A strong 2 power 1 drop is something to pay attention to.
Glorius Anthem with upside is something I would have begged for in past formats.
Heliod is a beast.
For the record I am against any kind of splash. WW beats slower decks by going under them which you cannot do with tapped lands. I am also against running less than 8 one drops. I already mulligan any hand without a turn 1 play.
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
Theres Spear of Heliod and Path of Bravery but thats about it.
The strength of White Weenie comes from swarms of small creatures that grow huge with pumping enchantments or creatures.
-Anonymous
I am going to have to disagree. You swarm, yes, but you don't need the pump. Even if there were three different Glorius Anthem effects you would not waste 12 slots on them. You cannot swarm by going one drop, two drop, anthem, anthem. You swarm by going one drop, two one drops, two drop or the like. You want a critical mass of weenies.
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
4 Boros Elite
4 Phalanx Leader
4 Precinct Captain
4 Truefire Paladin
3 Anax and Cymede
3 Boros Reckoner
2 Banisher Priest
3 Spear of Heliod
Instants (11):
4 Boros Charm
4 Gods Willing
3 Martial Glory
Lands (22):
4 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundries
4 Temple of Triumph
10 Plains
3 Fiendslayer Paladin
3 Frontline Medic
2 Brave the Elements
2 Imposing Sovereign
2 Rootborn Defenses
1 Banisher Priest
And if you're not feeling the slight Heroic theme here, you can always replace Martial Glory with Brave the Elements and Phalanx Leader with Imposing Sovereign. It would probably look like a more traditional Boros Weenie deck at that point. However, I would like to point out there is a certain benefit to having a source of creature pump that can also attack, and Phalanx Leader can serve that role quite well.
Even though it doesn't protect you from Supreme Verdict, Brave The Elements is still the better card 90% of the time. Being able to dodge removal spells, enchantments, and enable alpha strikes, is much better than making your creatures indestructible.
It's better if you can run both, but ATM with the mana bases I don't see a reason, nor a need to splash red, when you have access to cards such as Heliod, God of the Sun and Rootborn Defenses that you can leave in the side vs decks with supreme verdict.
Standard
WUW/U HumansUW
Modern
WBW/B TokensBW
Silliness aside I've been keeping an eye on what everyone is saying and tweaking my list here and there based on results and suggestions.
First off, I was wrong about Brave the Elements. I want to run like 9... but 4 will have to do. I still don't like God's Willing in the main, but I think every self respecting WW list should run Brave in the main.
Secondly, Cavalry Pegasus started out as a 2-of just for a another drop, and is now a 3-of in my list and I wish I could fit another. It's much stronger than I originally gave it credit for.
Thirdly, Mutavault, still awesome, but I don't want more than 2. Mostly because I dropped to 21 lands and may go lower than that soon.
Finally, Soldier of the Pantheon is even better than it looks. It just shuts down so many cards, and is the best target for Ajani, Caller of the Pride buffs.
Updated list
4 Soldier of the Panetheon
4 Boros Elite
4 Dryad Militant
4 Azorius Arrester
4 Imposing Soverign
4 Precinct Captain
3 Cavalry Pegasus
3 Frontline Medic
4 Brave the Elements
3 Spear of Heliod
2 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
Lands (21)
2 Mutavault
19 Plains
4 Fiendslayer Paladin
4 Wear // Tear
3 Immortal Servitude
2 Gods Willing
1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
1 Frontline Medic
Sideboard:
I really miss O-ring. Wear is not neccesary space but I occasionally see angelic accord/post decks and killing the accord is usually more than enough to get past their life gain. Tear is the only reason I would like to have access to red mana as many U/W lists bring in ratchet bomb, and being able to take out a bomb and a detention sphere would be hot sauce. Not worth twisting the mana base for though.
Fiendslayer is for Grixis or heavy removal packages, as is God willing, and he is very good at what he does.
Immortal Servitude is great against multiple sweeper.dek, moved to the side to make the main more aggressive.
Ajani number 3 comes in against many control decks as a way to help prevent over extending into wrath.
Medic number 4 comes in against green creature lists or revelation lists.
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
I play a lot of WW
other sideboard options to consider
Keening Apparition
Creature/Enchant destruction Value for WW being a creature
Pithing Needle
Planeswalkers
Sundering Growth
Artifact and Enchant Removal plus possible populate effect
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
You can always play 4 Sacred Foundry MD - the life loss will generally be irrelevant and it makes Wear//Tear a potential 2-for-1.
—Jaya Ballard, task mage
I really like your list, it's awsome!
Don't you want some number of Banisher Priests in the sideboard though? What do you do against things like smiters, reckoners, or even hundred handed one?
Also on the sibject of reckoner, why not play him? Seems like he's insane against any creature deck.
I think that wear/tear will almost always be a dead card. It just doesn't make sense to me to bring in 4 cards to kill a d-sphere or ratchet bomb (and esspecially angelic accord).
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
I agree w/ Banisher Priests, but I think maining the reckoner would disrupt the Cavalry Pegasus theme. Also Mutavault and Reckoner don't play too well together. There is no question it's powerful though.
That is true, maybe the pegasus is just better against creature decks anyways, since most playable creatures don't have flying or reach.
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
> Banisher Preist: This is a meta call. I personally prefer Reckoner in the matchups where I would want BP. My list is winning because I am gong so far under the opposition. by the time I hit 3 mana, just letting reckoner hit their face is usually more valuable than removing a single blocker.
>Reckoner main? I only have 3 slots for a 3 drop in the main, and frontline medic is almost always better considering the swarm strategy I am using.
>Wear // Tear dead! Mostly, I agree. The other cards are used much more often. There just isn't anything I want more. I may very well exchange it for Keening Apparition so I can have an enchantment kill that swings, I really like that idea.
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
I think if the Gods become a big thing, banisher priest is one of the few ways WW has the potential to deal with it after it devotion triggers. Something to consider unless white gets some other exile (oblivion ring replacement would be nice) or I'm missing something.
This is very possible. One of the reasons I am doing well, though, is people are running 2 and 3 color monstrosities with many tapped lands. For the Gods to become a thing the meta will shift towards mono-colored decks and as such will speed up tremendously. In that meta, I don't think WW would be able to compete without significant alterations.
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
Current Decks:
Modern: BRG Jund BRG
Legacy: UBG BUG UBG