Thinking of moving up to 4 Rest in Peace in the sideboard to combat Aristocrats and Reanimator...
Or you can fundamentally attack the strategic problem. Going to 4 Rest in Peaces is like trying to answer Thragtusk or JtMS. First of all game 1's? 2nd of all what if you don't draw it?... worse what if you draw multiples? It would be different if the card proactively did something, but you are the aggro deck in the match. I mean unless you can run more Resto/Thrag ETB's then them, and more ramp, and more card selection and better removal. Then maybe Rest in Peace makes sense in that quantity.
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First thing I would suggest is to consolidate your creatures more you have a lot of 2's and a couple one's.
For example Thalia you're going to want early game so only having 1 is going to hinder your efforts to make her effective.
Same goes with Experiment One, you want to put it into play early, so that you can make it grow and become useful.
This is the latest version I've been testing, notables:
-1 Smiter - He's good but I needed a cut
-2 Advent - He's good against wrath but loses to far/away and abrupt decay
-1 Domri - I don't want to get domri flooded, 3 seems enough
+3 Ghor-Clan - This guy pushes threw damage, I don't like hard casting him so I'm trying 3, makes people respect you A LOT more
+2 Bonfire - Hedge against the R/G decks popping up everywhere, plus blows out Junk rites and lots of other decks
The sideboard has turned into a lot of 1-2 ofs; I've noticed you cannot over side with this deck, you only want like 2-3 cards coming in against any deck max really so pick high impact spells and forget trying to control too many decks.
+1 zealous conscripts - why isn't anyone running this card vs midrange/junk rites/thragtusk decks, stealing a thrag then hitting them for 8 for 5 mana plus taking away their blocker is sweet. It also combos with restoration angel.
+2 ray of revelation - don't want to die vs bant hexproof, these plus unflinching courage come in vs this deck to race
+1 Rest in Peace - this card is good vs lots of stuff, never want more than one and vs rites this + purify is the combo I've been leaning on to control the grave.
+1 O-Ring - this is mostly here for boros reckoner
Any opinions? Been testing pretty heavily and chained thragtusks really screw this deck over if you don't have the explosive starts. Hoping zealous conscripts can help, I might even go up to 2 of this card considering how powerful it can be. Even taking their 3/3 or 4/4 blocker is a huge play, I almost always loved seeing this card vs other midrange decks that try to control me.
First thing I would suggest is to consolidate your creatures more you have a lot of 2's and a couple one's.
For example Thalia you're going to want early game so only having 1 is going to hinder your efforts to make her effective.
Same goes with Experiment One, you want to put it into play early, so that you can make it grow and become useful.
This looks like it was Willy Edel's updated list he posted last week on CFB. He had some decent rationale for the 1 and 2 of's. I ran it in a small tourney over the weekend and went undefeated. Not saying much, but it run's pretty smoothly and he gave a fairly strong sideboard plan in the article.
Still you have to admit his numbers are pretty all over the place and he still is hard on the mana with 7 T1 G plays with 10 sources.. I guess it's ok, I just wish he would consolidate. Like random Thalia, Boar etc.. I agree Smiter gets a trim, but pick something and go with it. 2 of Huntmaster etc.. I think the list just sort of gets by like a lot midrange decks. But then again I'm one of those people who would be sitting there telling him to run Sublime. I think even with 4 Hellkites you can run up 7 4 drops versus the 4 he is stating. Mind you not counting Ghor Clan I only run 3 so I guess that's fair. He's right about Rest in Peace etc.. and especially Bonfire, but he is hedging much more on the anti aggro plan main which I think is a good hedge but it already is a decent matchup innately. He said himself he was 1-3 against Junk when he top 8'd. THIS IS THE WORST MATCHUP. I'm interested where Thalia makes a difference and I might try it. I disagree about Unflinching Courage, does the opponent ever play Reckoner.. good luck.
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Still you have to admit his numbers are pretty all over the place and he still is hard on the mana with 7 T1 G plays with 10 sources.. I guess it's ok, I just wish he would consolidate. Like random Thalia, Boar etc.. I agree Smiter gets a trim, but pick something and go with it. 2 of Huntmaster etc.. I think the list just sort of gets by like a lot midrange decks. But then again I'm one of those people who would be sitting there telling him to run Sublime. I think even with 4 Hellkites you can run up 7 4 drops versus the 4 he is stating. Mind you not counting Ghor Clan I only run 3 so I guess that's fair. He's right about Rest in Peace etc.. and especially Bonfire, but he is hedging much more on the anti aggro plan main which I think is a good hedge but it already is a decent matchup innately. He said himself he was 1-3 against Junk when he top 8'd. THIS IS THE WORST MATCHUP. I'm interested where Thalia makes a difference and I might try it. I disagree about Unflinching Courage, does the opponent ever play Reckoner.. good luck.
I'm wanting to include a sublime in my list but I don't know how to really fit her in, maybe it's the fact I have a set of them in my binder but I would like to give her a shot even as a 1-of. My dilemma is how does she work in practice, she wants you to only attack with 1 guy to take advantage of her ability but then you risk getting screwed by instant speed removal. Are you content just alphaing with your whole board and resigning to the fact that she's just a 4/3 flier if they leave mana open? I can see how she's pretty good when she lands as she can basically give a single creature +2/+2 or +3/+3 if you cast her with a pilgrim.
Regarding the list I posted most recently, what cut would you make to fit her in? I feel like experiment one maybe but when I get him he's often pretty good for 1 mana and I've tailored my deck to be able to play a 1 drop so I feel like I should be taking advantage of it.
I'm wanting to include a sublime in my list but I don't know how to really fit her in, maybe it's the fact I have a set of them in my binder but I would like to give her a shot even as a 1-of. My dilemma is how does she work in practice, she wants you to only attack with 1 guy to take advantage of her ability but then you risk getting screwed by instant speed removal. Are you content just alphaing with your whole board and resigning to the fact that she's just a 4/3 flier if they leave mana open? I can see how she's pretty good when she lands as she can basically give a single creature +2/+2 or +3/+3 if you cast her with a pilgrim.
Regarding the list I posted most recently, what cut would you make to fit her in? I feel like experiment one maybe but when I get him he's often pretty good for 1 mana and I've tailored my deck to be able to play a 1 drop so I feel like I should be taking advantage of it.
Well I guess I'm just coming from a deck that plays 4 Falkenrath Aristocrats so having a 4 flier has been more than enough. Voice also makes Sublime very good. Another way to completely neuter Azorius Charm. Unlike Soulbond you get the choice of attacking since they have to kill Sublime if it isn't attacking before attacks, so it isn't like having your Silverblade Paladin killed after attacks throwing your guy into bad blocks. Sublime is a lot like a haste creature against decks that aren't heavy on ground creatures like control. And still decent against those that are. In this format of Boros Reckoners and Thragtusks alpha'ing usually only happens on the turn you go for the kill. Like you Sublime pumping your Reckoner to a 6/6 (pretty much unblockable), next turn drop Thundermaw and attack with all 3.
A lot of decks just try to out removal like UWR and Jund. They deplete a lot of their removal on our early threats that are basically 2 for 1's. Sublime is just a matter of raising that threat density. Sometimes you have more threats than they have answers. In terms of fitting it in. Yeah Experiment seems reasonable (although you will notice a difference going between a 1 and a 4 drop). Generally with more 4's I'd like more ramp. It's more like it's a swap for Restoration Angel and maybe some Smiter and then make the experiments mana creatures.
In other news. Yeah Thalia is very good. Forgot how good the card is. I'm putting her back in my board. Good against Reanimator, Lingering Souls decks, etc.. She's a good switch at 2 when Voice isn't as good or additional mana dorks aren't. I cut one of my Ray of Revelation because she actually slows down Bant Hexproof enough we can often race. I'm playing 1 Rest in Peace for Junk Aristocrats. I had an additional Bonfire/Electrickery but it was pretty much just for that matchup. I never want to see multiples and I don't side it against Junk Rites (where it's basically useless), but it's reasonable to hedge on the reanimator decks.
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This is my current list I'm running against a local meta that is largely Aristocrats (I, II, and Junk), and Aggro (Primarily Naya Aggro, Naya Blitz, and RG Aggro) with a few control lists (typical Esper/Bant/American) decks. I want this deck to be a little more geared towards Aggro/Aristocrats as I think that would help me be more consistent in my match-wins but any advice is recommended!
This is my current list I'm running against a local meta that is largely Aristocrats (I, II, and Junk), and Aggro (Primarily Naya Aggro, Naya Blitz, and RG Aggro) with a few control lists (typical Esper/Bant/American) decks. I want this deck to be a little more geared towards Aggro/Aristocrats as I think that would help me be more consistent in my match-wins but any advice is recommended!
I think the 3 restos could easily be thundermaws. The only actual value play you have with angel is huntmaster. Besides that it just saves a guy, I rather play a 5/5 hasted guy and winning the game instead of saving a guy.
I recently cut my 3 angels for 3 ghor-clans which is also an option. Aso why is witchbane orb in your deck? Seems like mostly an anti drownyard card which we should be able to kill them before they canmill us out.
I think the 3 restos could easily be thundermaws. The only actual value play you have with angel is huntmaster. Besides that it just saves a guy, I rather play a 5/5 hasted guy and winning the game instead of saving a guy.
I recently cut my 3 angels for 3 ghor-clans which is also an option. Aso why is witchbane orb in your deck? Seems like mostly an anti drownyard card which we should be able to kill them before they canmill us out.
Mostly because it's a flyer that can be used against Falkenrath Aristocrat, it blinks Huntmaster of the Fells which absolutely destroys aggro, and blinking a Thundermaw Hellkite is often how I win my matches. People have told me to do -2 Aurelia, the Warleader, +2 Thundermaw Hellkite and either take her out completely or relegate her to side-board against grindy midrange matches where she can be a complete blow-out.
Read what I wrote and you wrote again. You're describing Junk Aristocrats. I think my last sentence threw it off. I basically was saying I wouldn't blame someone for bringing it in as a one of even if I think it's basically useless against Reanimator(Rites).
I'm playing 1 Rest in Peace for Junk Aristocrats. I had an additional Bonfire/Electrickery but it was pretty much just for that matchup. I never want to see multiples and I don't side it against Junk Rites (where it's basically useless), but it's reasonable to hedge on the reanimator decks.
Mostly because it's a flyer that can be used against Falkenrath Aristocrat, it blinks Huntmaster of the Fells which absolutely destroys aggro, and blinking a Thundermaw Hellkite is often how I win my matches. People have told me to do -2 Aurelia, the Warleader, +2 Thundermaw Hellkite and either take her out completely or relegate her to side-board against grindy midrange matches where she can be a complete blow-out.
Yea but having the chump an aristocrat isnt really what you want to be doing in my opinion. I rather just selesnya charm it if/when they sacrifice a human to it.
Also thoughts on my currect list? Im playing ina PTQ tomorrow with it.
This is the list I settled on for today, it ran really well and I only really lost when I played UWR and they drew lots of burn spells and topdecked much better than me with restoration angels + thundermaws while I got flooded. Sublime was pretty great and with smiter it can be very explosive. I found thalia pretty good as well, lots of matches being on the play I brought her in vs decks with lots of non-creature spells and it really made it tough for them to catch back up. I went back to 4 domri because I was finding games where I'd go dork->smiter/reckoner->domri were very difficult for people to deal with. Bonfire was pretty decent all day, most of the time I'd be hard casting it for 1 or 2 to deal with smaller creatures but it was pretty good in that regard. Mizzium mortars was decent, the overload didn't come up but it's still a great option. Boar/experiment one got cut in favour of a more mid-ranged approach, the more explosive start was testing poorly for me so I decided to go back to 4 smiters and added some sublimes. Arbor elf was added to help with that approach, the boar/experiment one was a good line but so many decks are equipped to deal with R/G aggro that I was putting myself into topdeck mode far too quickly with those creatures. They also don't work that well with domri compared to what's possible with smiter/reckoner/sublime.
The side was good as well, I focused on not over-siding and diluting the deck, most games I'd only bring in 2-3 cards max and they seemed to be pretty good most of the day. I cut a copy of blasphemous act because I was finding most of the decks I like to bring that card in vs were already running reckoner and they were probably the more aggressive deck. Nothing worse than having the act but you can't cast it because you'll do 13 damage to yourself via their reckoner and they've already beat you down to that range.
Went 5-0 in an FNM with a maindeck very similar to jb's above but a different sideboard.
Going to post a report, but the highlight of the whole thing was on turn 5 of turns after time was called. I had a Thundermaw and a 1/1 bad wolf, a flipped Garruk Relentless with 3 loyalty and the opponent at 9 life and a set of 4 Lingering Souls.
Thought about it for ages and then it struck me. I Garruk tutored for another Thundermaw, sacking the wolf, killing the spirits and swinging for 10. GG.
Deck felt pretty good overall. I ended up losing to Zealous Conscripts in a Aristocrat/Human brew. Champion, Mayor, Burning Tree.
Overall the deck performed very well. I wasn't able to deal with Zealous Conscripts along with an equal board presence due to Human blitz.
I still felt a little naked vs flying so I'm thinking about changing my Strangleroot Geist's for Deadly Recluse. It's easier mana cost plus it fits a bit better into my more defensive Naya midrange setup. Also the deathtouch fits very well with Domri -2 ability.
In my LGS the meta is mostly aggro and Aristocrats (I, II, and Junk) but I also want a deck that can stop the few odd-control decks that are abundant. I thought about Sublime Archangel, Silverblade Paladin or making room for Arbor Elf but I'm not really sure what I should change though.
This is the list I settled on for today, it ran really well and I only really lost when I played UWR and they drew lots of burn spells and topdecked much better than me with restoration angels + thundermaws while I got flooded. Sublime was pretty great and with smiter it can be very explosive. I found thalia pretty good as well, lots of matches being on the play I brought her in vs decks with lots of non-creature spells and it really made it tough for them to catch back up. I went back to 4 domri because I was finding games where I'd go dork->smiter/reckoner->domri were very difficult for people to deal with. Bonfire was pretty decent all day, most of the time I'd be hard casting it for 1 or 2 to deal with smaller creatures but it was pretty good in that regard. Mizzium mortars was decent, the overload didn't come up but it's still a great option. Boar/experiment one got cut in favour of a more mid-ranged approach, the more explosive start was testing poorly for me so I decided to go back to 4 smiters and added some sublimes. Arbor elf was added to help with that approach, the boar/experiment one was a good line but so many decks are equipped to deal with R/G aggro that I was putting myself into topdeck mode far too quickly with those creatures. They also don't work that well with domri compared to what's possible with smiter/reckoner/sublime.
The side was good as well, I focused on not over-siding and diluting the deck, most games I'd only bring in 2-3 cards max and they seemed to be pretty good most of the day. I cut a copy of blasphemous act because I was finding most of the decks I like to bring that card in vs were already running reckoner and they were probably the more aggressive deck. Nothing worse than having the act but you can't cast it because you'll do 13 damage to yourself via their reckoner and they've already beat you down to that range.
I agree about Blasphemous Act. I also agree about flooding out on cheap creatures. I just still think Boar is better than Smiter, but anyway you choose you can't have too many of those slots. I also like Boar because I run Gyre Sage over Arbor Elf. This gives me a lot more options at 2 when I don't hit a dork.
I've been doing more testing and I like Thalia a lot. With the greedy mana in this format she is much better than she has been in a long time. I realize I haven't posted my list for a few pages(although I actually haven't changed the main deck in over a week). My latest addition was Fiend Hunter. I actually like this card simply for the tempo gain. Reseting counters on Stromkirk Noble etc.. it's also a x/3 which is atleast bigger than the creatures. It also is a creature which makes Domri better and can hit most threats against other low removal decks. Admittedly opposing Domri makes it a lot worse but usually the timing is simply the tempo gain which is important. It also opens up Sublime a bit more.
I actually started keeping my Sublime's in against Aggro. They are better than Thundermaw I think in that matchup. They come down a turn earlier. Yes they die to Spear but because of the timing it puts more of a strain on their resources especially if you are Thalia, Reckoner, Fiend Hunteriing their board. Then when you are on the swing back you can keep up blockers and likely do more damage in the air than a Thundermaw.
Anyway here is my current list. 3 Thalia's might be too much but it isn't bad. Generally they swap in for Gyre Sages where applicable and maybe another card.
On another note Silverblade isn't worth it with all the cheap burn around. We already have better 3's and playing it as a 3 doesn't let us stabilize. Playing it as a 5 is slow and underpowered. Boros Charm is much better generally I think where you want to be doing that. It's awkward to play too many of those effect anyway. Silverblade is a lot better where you aren't playing Reckoner and have all 8 dorks, so it is very 1, 3, 4.. Otherwise it's too slow and disruptable.
EDIT: Yeah the 3rd Thalia is too much I think.. I'm actually gonna try the 3rd Fiend Hunter.
Went 5-0 in an FNM with a maindeck very similar to jb's above but a different sideboard.
Going to post a report, but the highlight of the whole thing was on turn 5 of turns after time was called. I had a Thundermaw and a 1/1 bad wolf, a flipped Garruk Relentless with 3 loyalty and the opponent at 9 life and a set of 4 Lingering Souls.
Thought about it for ages and then it struck me. I Garruk tutored for another Thundermaw, sacking the wolf, killing the spirits and swinging for 10. GG.
Went 2-3 the following day at an SCG IQ with the same deck. I lost a very close game against Jund in the second match (that same player narrowly beat me at a PTQ weeks earlier, so he's my bane for sure) which threw me into the sea of random decks. So of course I lose two more times to Zombies, which I have nothing for in my sideboard. If I run pillars, I win those.
I saw that Naya Midrange took 4th at this past weekend's SCG Open. Very similar maindeck, except he chucked Domri Rade altogether. Don't know if I agree with that, as Domri does serious work, but the results speak for themselves. His sideboard is way different and has some interesting choices that I ought to try for myself, including the aforementioned Pillar. Also, Blasphemous Act as a finisher. (would have won me the match against Jund, but probably not against the Zombie decks' two Blood Artists.)
Went 2-3 the following day at an SCG IQ with the same deck. I lost a very close game against Jund in the second match (that same player narrowly beat me at a PTQ weeks earlier, so he's my bane for sure) which threw me into the sea of random decks. So of course I lose two more times to Zombies, which I have nothing for in my sideboard. If I run pillars, I win those.
I saw that Naya Midrange took 4th at this past weekend's SCG Open. Very similar maindeck, except he chucked Domri Rade altogether. Don't know if I agree with that, as Domri does serious work, but the results speak for themselves. His sideboard is way different and has some interesting choices that I ought to try for myself, including the aforementioned Pillar. Also, Blasphemous Act as a finisher. (would have won me the match against Jund, but probably not against the Zombie decks' two Blood Artists.)
I'd say 2 pillars are about mandatory right now if you've got red in your deck, the card does so much work and in many cases you'll be on the draw in game 2 since this deck is so good vs aggro variants and it really shines there.
I saw the SCG list, seems like the deck would be soft to Jund and other midrange variants. It seems a lot less powerful and more stable vs aggro, this deck is already great vs aggro though so I don't like that line as much. Regarding Advent of the Wurm - abrupt decay is already one of the best cards in the format against our deck so I don't like making it even softer and cards like gaze of granite, unsummon effects, etc make that card even worse. The only upside is that it's instant speed and can play around wrath effects, I found sublime offers some solid power for 4 mana and domri is really really good so I want to keep with that strategy.
Played in a small tournament tonight with the same list except I cut a garruk for another mortars in the side, the new izzet glass cannon deck is actually very powerful so I wanted a bit more game vs that. I didn't lose a single game all night and the deck just continued to be super consistent and do what it does all night. Great value creatures, good pressure, removal for specific creatures and domri to give the deck another dimension. The only change I'll be making is adding in another clifftop retreat and cutting a sunpetal grove to help with RR on T5 and RRR on T6.
I'm actually not a fan of Ghor-Clan. He's awkward to cast and I never feel the need to push damage through that badly. What's a good replacement for a local meta that is all Reanimator (Primarily Junk with a few 4-Color), Aggro (RG, Humans, Blitz) and Aristocrats? (Act I, II, and Junk)
Not sure why people havent liked Advent of the wurm. I find that card is amazing in so many situations and is kinda in our game plan, bigger than our mana cost kinda guys.
Im testing the 4 bonfire/4 domri right now. Before it was 2 bonfire/2 mortars which worked fine.
Any thoughts?
Also I've seen some decks run resto angel and no real value to get off of her, which was what I was running and what lead me to run wurm over resto since its the same cmc and 2 power more since we dont really get value off the blink most of the time.
Or you can fundamentally attack the strategic problem. Going to 4 Rest in Peaces is like trying to answer Thragtusk or JtMS. First of all game 1's? 2nd of all what if you don't draw it?... worse what if you draw multiples? It would be different if the card proactively did something, but you are the aggro deck in the match. I mean unless you can run more Resto/Thrag ETB's then them, and more ramp, and more card selection and better removal. Then maybe Rest in Peace makes sense in that quantity.
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
2 Forest
1 Gavony Township
3 Clifftop Retreat
3 Rootboung Crag
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Stomping Ground
3 Sunpetal Grove
4 Temple Garden
CREATURES (28)
4 Avacyn’s Pilgrim
1 Arbor Elf
2 Experiment One
2 Flinthoof Boar
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Loxodon Smiter
2 Restoration Angel
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Thundermaw Hellkite
4 Domri Rade
SPELLS (4)
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Selesnya Charm
2 Assemble the Legion
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Pillar of Flame
1 Rest in Peace
2 Unflinching Courage
3 Bonfire of the Damned
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Purify the Grave
1 Ray of Revelation
What is your opinion on this list?
Modern
UWGB 4c Snow Control BGWU
First thing I would suggest is to consolidate your creatures more you have a lot of 2's and a couple one's.
For example Thalia you're going to want early game so only having 1 is going to hinder your efforts to make her effective.
Same goes with Experiment One, you want to put it into play early, so that you can make it grow and become useful.
4 Temple Garden
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Stomping Ground
1 Clifftop Retreat
4 Rootbound Crag
2 Forest
3 Sunpetal Grove
3 Restoration Angel
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
3 Loxodon Smiter
4 Thundermaw Hellkite
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Mizzium Mortars
4 Advent of the Wurm
Thinking about switching 2 Mortars for 2 boros charms.
Thoughts on mainboard boros charm?
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
2 Forest
4 Temple Garden
4 Stomping Ground
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Clifftop Retreat
3 Sunpetal Grove
3 Rootbound Crag
1 Mountain
1 Slayer's Stronghold
Creatures(29):
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Voice of Resurgence
3 Flinthoof Boar
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Loxodon Smiter
2 Experiment One
4 Thundermaw Hellkite
2 Restoration Angel
3 Domri Rade
1 Selesnya Charm
1 Mizzium Mortars
2 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Boros Charm
2 Ray of Revelation
2 Skullcrack
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Zealous Conscripts
1 Purify the Grave
1 Rest in peace
2 Blasphemous Act
1 Unflinching Courage
This is the latest version I've been testing, notables:
-1 Smiter - He's good but I needed a cut
-2 Advent - He's good against wrath but loses to far/away and abrupt decay
-1 Domri - I don't want to get domri flooded, 3 seems enough
+3 Ghor-Clan - This guy pushes threw damage, I don't like hard casting him so I'm trying 3, makes people respect you A LOT more
+2 Bonfire - Hedge against the R/G decks popping up everywhere, plus blows out Junk rites and lots of other decks
The sideboard has turned into a lot of 1-2 ofs; I've noticed you cannot over side with this deck, you only want like 2-3 cards coming in against any deck max really so pick high impact spells and forget trying to control too many decks.
+1 zealous conscripts - why isn't anyone running this card vs midrange/junk rites/thragtusk decks, stealing a thrag then hitting them for 8 for 5 mana plus taking away their blocker is sweet. It also combos with restoration angel.
+2 ray of revelation - don't want to die vs bant hexproof, these plus unflinching courage come in vs this deck to race
+1 Rest in Peace - this card is good vs lots of stuff, never want more than one and vs rites this + purify is the combo I've been leaning on to control the grave.
+1 O-Ring - this is mostly here for boros reckoner
Any opinions? Been testing pretty heavily and chained thragtusks really screw this deck over if you don't have the explosive starts. Hoping zealous conscripts can help, I might even go up to 2 of this card considering how powerful it can be. Even taking their 3/3 or 4/4 blocker is a huge play, I almost always loved seeing this card vs other midrange decks that try to control me.
This looks like it was Willy Edel's updated list he posted last week on CFB. He had some decent rationale for the 1 and 2 of's. I ran it in a small tourney over the weekend and went undefeated. Not saying much, but it run's pretty smoothly and he gave a fairly strong sideboard plan in the article.
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
I'm wanting to include a sublime in my list but I don't know how to really fit her in, maybe it's the fact I have a set of them in my binder but I would like to give her a shot even as a 1-of. My dilemma is how does she work in practice, she wants you to only attack with 1 guy to take advantage of her ability but then you risk getting screwed by instant speed removal. Are you content just alphaing with your whole board and resigning to the fact that she's just a 4/3 flier if they leave mana open? I can see how she's pretty good when she lands as she can basically give a single creature +2/+2 or +3/+3 if you cast her with a pilgrim.
Regarding the list I posted most recently, what cut would you make to fit her in? I feel like experiment one maybe but when I get him he's often pretty good for 1 mana and I've tailored my deck to be able to play a 1 drop so I feel like I should be taking advantage of it.
Well I guess I'm just coming from a deck that plays 4 Falkenrath Aristocrats so having a 4 flier has been more than enough. Voice also makes Sublime very good. Another way to completely neuter Azorius Charm. Unlike Soulbond you get the choice of attacking since they have to kill Sublime if it isn't attacking before attacks, so it isn't like having your Silverblade Paladin killed after attacks throwing your guy into bad blocks. Sublime is a lot like a haste creature against decks that aren't heavy on ground creatures like control. And still decent against those that are. In this format of Boros Reckoners and Thragtusks alpha'ing usually only happens on the turn you go for the kill. Like you Sublime pumping your Reckoner to a 6/6 (pretty much unblockable), next turn drop Thundermaw and attack with all 3.
A lot of decks just try to out removal like UWR and Jund. They deplete a lot of their removal on our early threats that are basically 2 for 1's. Sublime is just a matter of raising that threat density. Sometimes you have more threats than they have answers. In terms of fitting it in. Yeah Experiment seems reasonable (although you will notice a difference going between a 1 and a 4 drop). Generally with more 4's I'd like more ramp. It's more like it's a swap for Restoration Angel and maybe some Smiter and then make the experiments mana creatures.
In other news. Yeah Thalia is very good. Forgot how good the card is. I'm putting her back in my board. Good against Reanimator, Lingering Souls decks, etc.. She's a good switch at 2 when Voice isn't as good or additional mana dorks aren't. I cut one of my Ray of Revelation because she actually slows down Bant Hexproof enough we can often race. I'm playing 1 Rest in Peace for Junk Aristocrats. I had an additional Bonfire/Electrickery but it was pretty much just for that matchup. I never want to see multiples and I don't side it against Junk Rites (where it's basically useless), but it's reasonable to hedge on the reanimator decks.
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
2x Aurelia, the Warleader
4x Avacyn's Pilgrim
4x Boros Reckoner
4x Huntmaster of the Fells Flip
4x Loxodon Smiter
3x Restoration Angel
1x Thundermaw Hellkite
4x Voice of Resurgence
3x Bonfire of the Damned
3x Mizzium Mortars
Land (23)
2x Cavern of Souls
2x Clifftop Retreat
2x Kessig Wolf Run
4x Rootbound Crag
3x Sacred Foundry
4x Stomping Ground
2x Sunpetal Grove
4x Temple Garden
2x Advent of the Wurm
Planeswalker (4)
4x Domri Rade
2x Boros Charm
2x Pithing Needle
2x Purify the Grave
2x Ray of Revelation
2x Rolling Temblor
2x Selesnya Charm
2x Unflinching Courage
1x Witchbane Orb
This is my current list I'm running against a local meta that is largely Aristocrats (I, II, and Junk), and Aggro (Primarily Naya Aggro, Naya Blitz, and RG Aggro) with a few control lists (typical Esper/Bant/American) decks. I want this deck to be a little more geared towards Aggro/Aristocrats as I think that would help me be more consistent in my match-wins but any advice is recommended!
I think the 3 restos could easily be thundermaws. The only actual value play you have with angel is huntmaster. Besides that it just saves a guy, I rather play a 5/5 hasted guy and winning the game instead of saving a guy.
I recently cut my 3 angels for 3 ghor-clans which is also an option. Aso why is witchbane orb in your deck? Seems like mostly an anti drownyard card which we should be able to kill them before they canmill us out.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
Mostly because it's a flyer that can be used against Falkenrath Aristocrat, it blinks Huntmaster of the Fells which absolutely destroys aggro, and blinking a Thundermaw Hellkite is often how I win my matches. People have told me to do -2 Aurelia, the Warleader, +2 Thundermaw Hellkite and either take her out completely or relegate her to side-board against grindy midrange matches where she can be a complete blow-out.
The Witchbane Orb is more anti Bonfire of the Damned / anti-Jace, Memory Adept / Nephalia Drownyard tech though it will probably be cut quickly.
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
Yea but having the chump an aristocrat isnt really what you want to be doing in my opinion. I rather just selesnya charm it if/when they sacrifice a human to it.
Also thoughts on my currect list? Im playing ina PTQ tomorrow with it.
4 Temple Garden
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Stomping Ground
1 Clifftop Retreat
4 Rootbound Crag
2 Forest
3 Sunpetal Grove
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
3 Loxodon Smiter
4 Thundermaw Hellkite
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Voice of Resurgence
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Flinthoof Boar
1 Mizzium Mortars
4 Advent of the Wurm
2 Boros Charm
1 Bonfire of the Damned
Im messing with the spells right now. Pretty sure im settled on 3 Domri, just have no clue about the 1 mizzium, 1 bonfire, 2 boros charm.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
2 Forest
4 Temple Garden
4 Stomping Ground
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Clifftop Retreat
4 Sunpetal Grove
4 Rootbound Crag
Creatures(28):
1 Arbor Elf
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Loxodon Smiter
2 Sublime Archangel
4 Thundermaw Hellkite
2 Restoration Angel
4 Domri Rade
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Boros Charm
1 Ray of Revelation
2 Skullcrack
1 Purify the Grave
1 Rest in peace
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Unflinching Courage
2 Thalia
1 Selesnya Charm
1 Garruk Relentless
This is the list I settled on for today, it ran really well and I only really lost when I played UWR and they drew lots of burn spells and topdecked much better than me with restoration angels + thundermaws while I got flooded. Sublime was pretty great and with smiter it can be very explosive. I found thalia pretty good as well, lots of matches being on the play I brought her in vs decks with lots of non-creature spells and it really made it tough for them to catch back up. I went back to 4 domri because I was finding games where I'd go dork->smiter/reckoner->domri were very difficult for people to deal with. Bonfire was pretty decent all day, most of the time I'd be hard casting it for 1 or 2 to deal with smaller creatures but it was pretty good in that regard. Mizzium mortars was decent, the overload didn't come up but it's still a great option. Boar/experiment one got cut in favour of a more mid-ranged approach, the more explosive start was testing poorly for me so I decided to go back to 4 smiters and added some sublimes. Arbor elf was added to help with that approach, the boar/experiment one was a good line but so many decks are equipped to deal with R/G aggro that I was putting myself into topdeck mode far too quickly with those creatures. They also don't work that well with domri compared to what's possible with smiter/reckoner/sublime.
The side was good as well, I focused on not over-siding and diluting the deck, most games I'd only bring in 2-3 cards max and they seemed to be pretty good most of the day. I cut a copy of blasphemous act because I was finding most of the decks I like to bring that card in vs were already running reckoner and they were probably the more aggressive deck. Nothing worse than having the act but you can't cast it because you'll do 13 damage to yourself via their reckoner and they've already beat you down to that range.
Going to post a report, but the highlight of the whole thing was on turn 5 of turns after time was called. I had a Thundermaw and a 1/1 bad wolf, a flipped Garruk Relentless with 3 loyalty and the opponent at 9 life and a set of 4 Lingering Souls.
Thought about it for ages and then it struck me. I Garruk tutored for another Thundermaw, sacking the wolf, killing the spirits and swinging for 10. GG.
1st round 2-0
2nd round 2-0
3rd round 2-0
top 4: 1-2 (only 3 undefeated so only top 4)
3x Avacyn's Pilgrim
2x Arbor Elf
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3x Strangleroot Geist
4x Boros Reckoner
3x Loxodon Smiter
4x Huntmaster of the Fells
3x Ghor-Clan Rampager
3x Thundermaw Hellkite
Spells:
2x Selesnya Charm
3x Bonfire of the Damned
4x Domri Rade
4x Stomping Ground
3x Sacred Foundry
4x Temple Garden
3x Rootbound Crag
2x Clifftop Retreat
3x Sunpetal Grove
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Plains
1x Mountain
3x Pillar of Flame
2x Ray of Revelation
3x Unflinching Courage
2x Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
2x Boros Charm
2x Purify the Grave
2x Blasphemous Act
Deck felt pretty good overall. I ended up losing to Zealous Conscripts in a Aristocrat/Human brew. Champion, Mayor, Burning Tree.
Overall the deck performed very well. I wasn't able to deal with Zealous Conscripts along with an equal board presence due to Human blitz.
I still felt a little naked vs flying so I'm thinking about changing my Strangleroot Geist's for Deadly Recluse. It's easier mana cost plus it fits a bit better into my more defensive Naya midrange setup. Also the deathtouch fits very well with Domri -2 ability.
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Huntmaster of the Fells
3 Restoration Angel
4 Thundermaw Hellkite
4 Voice of Resurgence
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
3 Loxodon Smiter
3 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Mizzium Mortars
Planeswalkers (3)
3 Domri Rade
Lands (23)
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Clifftop Retreat
2 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Rootbound Crag
3 Sacred Foundry
4 Stomping Ground
2 Sunpetal Grove
4 Temple Garden
2 Ray of Revelation
2 Unflinching Courage
2 Selesnya Charm
1 Aurelia, the Warleader
2 Rest in Peace
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Garruk Relentless
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
In my LGS the meta is mostly aggro and Aristocrats (I, II, and Junk) but I also want a deck that can stop the few odd-control decks that are abundant. I thought about Sublime Archangel, Silverblade Paladin or making room for Arbor Elf but I'm not really sure what I should change though.
I agree about Blasphemous Act. I also agree about flooding out on cheap creatures. I just still think Boar is better than Smiter, but anyway you choose you can't have too many of those slots. I also like Boar because I run Gyre Sage over Arbor Elf. This gives me a lot more options at 2 when I don't hit a dork.
I've been doing more testing and I like Thalia a lot. With the greedy mana in this format she is much better than she has been in a long time. I realize I haven't posted my list for a few pages(although I actually haven't changed the main deck in over a week). My latest addition was Fiend Hunter. I actually like this card simply for the tempo gain. Reseting counters on Stromkirk Noble etc.. it's also a x/3 which is atleast bigger than the creatures. It also is a creature which makes Domri better and can hit most threats against other low removal decks. Admittedly opposing Domri makes it a lot worse but usually the timing is simply the tempo gain which is important. It also opens up Sublime a bit more.
I actually started keeping my Sublime's in against Aggro. They are better than Thundermaw I think in that matchup. They come down a turn earlier. Yes they die to Spear but because of the timing it puts more of a strain on their resources especially if you are Thalia, Reckoner, Fiend Hunteriing their board. Then when you are on the swing back you can keep up blockers and likely do more damage in the air than a Thundermaw.
Anyway here is my current list. 3 Thalia's might be too much but it isn't bad. Generally they swap in for Gyre Sages where applicable and maybe another card.
4 Temple Garden
4 Stomping Ground
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Clifftop Retreat
3 Sunpetal Grove
1 Rootbound Crag
2 Forest
2 Mountain
Creatures(31):
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
2 Gyre Sage
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Borderland Ranger
4 Ghor Clan Rampager
3 Sublime Archangel
4 Thundermaw Hellkite
3 Domri Rade
3 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Boros Charm
2 Ray of Revelation
1 Rest in Peace
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Fiend Hunter
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
2 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Blasphemous Act
On another note Silverblade isn't worth it with all the cheap burn around. We already have better 3's and playing it as a 3 doesn't let us stabilize. Playing it as a 5 is slow and underpowered. Boros Charm is much better generally I think where you want to be doing that. It's awkward to play too many of those effect anyway. Silverblade is a lot better where you aren't playing Reckoner and have all 8 dorks, so it is very 1, 3, 4.. Otherwise it's too slow and disruptable.
EDIT: Yeah the 3rd Thalia is too much I think.. I'm actually gonna try the 3rd Fiend Hunter.
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
Went 2-3 the following day at an SCG IQ with the same deck. I lost a very close game against Jund in the second match (that same player narrowly beat me at a PTQ weeks earlier, so he's my bane for sure) which threw me into the sea of random decks. So of course I lose two more times to Zombies, which I have nothing for in my sideboard. If I run pillars, I win those.
I saw that Naya Midrange took 4th at this past weekend's SCG Open. Very similar maindeck, except he chucked Domri Rade altogether. Don't know if I agree with that, as Domri does serious work, but the results speak for themselves. His sideboard is way different and has some interesting choices that I ought to try for myself, including the aforementioned Pillar. Also, Blasphemous Act as a finisher. (would have won me the match against Jund, but probably not against the Zombie decks' two Blood Artists.)
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Loxodon Smiter
3 Restoration Angel
4 Thundermaw Hellkite
4 Voice of Resurgence
Lands (24)
2 Clifftop Retreat
1 Gavony Township
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Stomping Ground
4 Sunpetal Grove
4 Temple Garden
2 Advent of the Wurm
4 Searing Spear
3 Selesnya Charm
1 Blasphemous Act
2 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Pacifism
2 Unflinching Courage
2 Volcanic Strength
2 Boros Charm
2 Ranger's Guile
1 Ray of Revelation
1 Blasphemous Act
2 Bonfire of the Damned
I'd say 2 pillars are about mandatory right now if you've got red in your deck, the card does so much work and in many cases you'll be on the draw in game 2 since this deck is so good vs aggro variants and it really shines there.
I saw the SCG list, seems like the deck would be soft to Jund and other midrange variants. It seems a lot less powerful and more stable vs aggro, this deck is already great vs aggro though so I don't like that line as much. Regarding Advent of the Wurm - abrupt decay is already one of the best cards in the format against our deck so I don't like making it even softer and cards like gaze of granite, unsummon effects, etc make that card even worse. The only upside is that it's instant speed and can play around wrath effects, I found sublime offers some solid power for 4 mana and domri is really really good so I want to keep with that strategy.
Played in a small tournament tonight with the same list except I cut a garruk for another mortars in the side, the new izzet glass cannon deck is actually very powerful so I wanted a bit more game vs that. I didn't lose a single game all night and the deck just continued to be super consistent and do what it does all night. Great value creatures, good pressure, removal for specific creatures and domri to give the deck another dimension. The only change I'll be making is adding in another clifftop retreat and cutting a sunpetal grove to help with RR on T5 and RRR on T6.
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Huntmaster of the Fells
3 Restoration Angel
4 Thundermaw Hellkite
4 Voice of Resurgence
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
3 Loxodon Smiter
2 Bonfire of the Damned
3 Mizzium Mortars
Planeswalkers (3)
3 Domri Rade
Lands (23)
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Clifftop Retreat
2 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Rootbound Crag
3 Sacred Foundry
4 Stomping Ground
2 Sunpetal Grove
4 Temple Garden
2 Ray of Revelation
2 Unflinching Courage
2 Selesnya Charm
1 Aurelia, the Warleader
2 Rest in Peace
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Garruk Relentless
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
I'm actually not a fan of Ghor-Clan. He's awkward to cast and I never feel the need to push damage through that badly. What's a good replacement for a local meta that is all Reanimator (Primarily Junk with a few 4-Color), Aggro (RG, Humans, Blitz) and Aristocrats? (Act I, II, and Junk)
4 Temple Garden
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Stomping Ground
1 Clifftop Retreat
4 Rootbound Crag
2 Forest
3 Sunpetal Grove
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
3 Loxodon Smiter
4 Thundermaw Hellkite
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Arbor Elf
4 Advent of the Wurm
4 Bonfire of the Damned
Not sure why people havent liked Advent of the wurm. I find that card is amazing in so many situations and is kinda in our game plan, bigger than our mana cost kinda guys.
Im testing the 4 bonfire/4 domri right now. Before it was 2 bonfire/2 mortars which worked fine.
Any thoughts?
Also I've seen some decks run resto angel and no real value to get off of her, which was what I was running and what lead me to run wurm over resto since its the same cmc and 2 power more since we dont really get value off the blink most of the time.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW