Abrupt Decay is one of the best removal spells in the game right now, and you could always figure out a way to fit in Sorin, Lord if Innistrad, Lingering Souls, Grisly Salvage, Selesnya Charm is just an all around great card..... I done this deck as and only as a rough draft wishing someone could tinker around with it...just so we could see if Junnk Zombies could be viable..
my only problem with junk zombies...is i think it'd make the mana funky for geralf. otherwise it's probably what I'd be running.(i was about one step away from building junk midrange with smiters, obzedats, thragtusks, etc.) similar to the build i think holynorth was using in Mtgo and was talking about in the ghost dad thread a few weeks ago. and I think it'd probably be the better way to go if you ended up in junk.
however, other than the geralfs problem it could still be a fairly strong setup with alot of options to it. and maybe a sideboard plan that could make it resistant to gy hate(ie, something to replace some ofyour zombies so when grafdiggers/RIP get boarded in, it won't mean as much....like smiters in the board to replace some of your geralfs or something, idk)
if my b/w zombies list doesn't hold up that's prolly the direction i'll be heading anyways.
I posted a list similar to this before the changed everything. only difference was I was runnin two resto angels. currently I run two souls three charms and three slips. I don't think the deck needs bloodthrone as it has a strong agro start with the zombies. liliana and sign in blood are more mid rangey cards, and I have not tried the high preist out. my sideboard is a lot different but that's do to my lgs meta.
why one three falkenraths?
I posted a list similar to this before the changed everything. only difference was I was runnin two resto angels. currently I run two souls three charms and three slips. I don't think the deck needs bloodthrone as it has a strong agro start with the zombies. liliana and sign in blood are more mid rangey cards, and I have not tried the high preist out. my sideboard is a lot different but that's do to my lgs meta.
why one three falkenraths?
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Yeah I saw your deck. Im the same guy you were responding to before. I realized just how important Cartel Aristocrat is(although I'd like to try out Bloodthrone instead of her and see what happens).
I want to try Liliana and SiB simply because they ARE midrangey cards..I haven't played with midrange a whole lot and want to see how it plays.
With my testing of High Priest...its pretty nasty. It keeps planeswalkers from ultimating and just sets up extremely unfavorable 2 for 1's(which is further exasperated by a Blood Artist on the field). It depends on preference to be honest. It just complicates things even more for combat.
I use 3-of simply because thats all I have right now. Going to buy another soon. Although one could argue its to allow for earlier game. Aggro decks really put the hurting on and I'd rather have a Diregraf ghoul instead of a 2nd Falkenrath in my opening hand.
I had Blind in the Mainboard...but as you said its a hit and miss and I had a good night without it last FNM. Honestly...I don't really know how much Blind helps us against Aggro..instead of a Thrull Parasite and Instant speed removal. A lot of the BW Zombies decks that place in the top 16 aren't even running Blind Obedience. More stuff to test!
Thrull allows for Geralf shenanigans, extort, and a blocker.
Blind really helps us against Hellriders, Flinthoofs, Falkenrath Aristo's, and Thundermaws.
Im torn DX
I really want to try out Gloom Surgeon, High Priest, and Thrull Parasite.
Im skeptical of Zealous Conscripts. Yes its most likely game ending since we could swing with their dude and then sac it for our own deliciously evil machinations...so they'd be out a dude, hit by their dude, and serve as fodder for CA, BV, or FA. But, we're running 23 lands...24 would be better for ZC and Im not sure I want to dedicate another land...and Im super afraid of other aggro decks, plus we have plenty of reach. ZC feels a winmore card.
Out of the aggro decks I've fought(Naya Blitz and Naya Midrange several times)...If I don't have atleast a Removal, a blocker, and Lingering Souls..I can't hold out. Even then its hard because Geralf's comes in tapped, and if its Bant Enchant I'm dead by turn 5.
Skirstag High Priest, i think it's the way to go once again. The sacrifice route was doing great in the first place. Sac gravecrawler, recast him and and tap him to the priest = DEMONS.
We're gonna need sac outlets, sac targets, creatures to tap and card draw to fuel the plan.
I haven't tested Skirsdag Priest yet, though I don't think it will serve the same purpose as Artist. Artist gives us extra reach in the late game, letting us push through for the win. Priest tokens can be removed/chump blocked and wouldn't be as reliable for that. I see Priest as a pseudo-beater, in that it makes good beaters consistently w/ Aristocrat out.
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I haven't tested Skirsdag Priest yet, though I don't think it will serve the same purpose as Artist. Artist gives us extra reach in the late gamhe, letting us push through for the win. Priest tokens can be removed/chump blocked and wouldn't be as reliable for that. I see Priest as a pseudo-beater, in that it makes good beaters consistently w/ Aristocrat out.
skrisdag priest just isn't that good. outside of magic xmas land this card does not do much of anything without a more reliable way to trigger morbid. the sooner you drop the card the better. and once you do you will wonder why you played it as long as you did.
this card does nothing when it etb is terrible on turn two and needs to different conditions to make something happen late game. it doesn't catch you up if you are behind and can't close out games on its own. play any other card in its spot
Skirstag High Priest, i think it's the way to go once again. The sacrifice route was doing great in the first place. Sac gravecrawler, recast him and and tap him to the priest = DEMONS.
We're gonna need sac outlets, sac targets, creatures to tap and card draw to fuel the plan.
I haven't tested Skirsdag Priest yet, though I don't think it will serve the same purpose as Artist. Artist gives us extra reach in the late game, letting us push through for the win. Priest tokens can be removed/chump blocked and wouldn't be as reliable for that. I see Priest as a pseudo-beater, in that it makes good beaters consistently w/ Aristocrat out.
I don't believe Skirsdag is the way we want to go. It doesn't serve as well as Blood Artist does. Blood Artist gives us that oh so succulent reach. Skirsdag gives us a beater and a fairly easy to remove beater that doesn't contribute anything back. Blood Artist is just too delicious. A better output with less input vs less output and more input. I'll take the Artist.
I think BWr is the way to go. Falkenrath Aristocrat really adds to the Sacrifice synergy and gives us a win condition. I really need some more playtime with the deck.
I'm really skeptical about having a playset of Blind Obedience, even in the SB. It seems to not actually do a whole lot.
I'm going to be testing this BWr list. Changes likely to come: High Priest of Penance over Bloodthrone Vampire.
Skirstag High Priest, i think it's the way to go once again. The sacrifice route was doing great in the first place. Sac gravecrawler, recast him and and tap him to the priest = DEMONS.
We're gonna need sac outlets, sac targets, creatures to tap and card draw to fuel the plan.
I haven't tested Skirsdag Priest yet, though I don't think it will serve the same purpose as Artist. Artist gives us extra reach in the late game, letting us push through for the win. Priest tokens can be removed/chump blocked and wouldn't be as reliable for that. I see Priest as a pseudo-beater, in that it makes good beaters consistently w/ Aristocrat out.
I don't believe Skirsdag is the way we want to go. It doesn't serve as well as Blood Artist does. Blood Artist gives us that oh so succulent reach. Skirsdag gives us a beater and a fairly easy to remove beater that doesn't contribute anything back. Blood Artist is just too delicious. A better output with less input vs less output and more input. I'll take the Artist.
I think BWr is the way to go. Falkenrath Aristocrat really adds to the Sacrifice synergy and gives us a win condition. I really need some more playtime with the deck.
I'm really skeptical about having a playset of Blind Obedience, even in the SB. It seems to not actually do a whole lot.
I'm going to be testing this BWr list. Changes likely to come: High Priest of Penance over Bloodthrone Vampire.
Skirstag High Priest, i think it's the way to go once again. The sacrifice route was doing great in the first place. Sac gravecrawler, recast him and and tap him to the priest = DEMONS.
We're gonna need sac outlets, sac targets, creatures to tap and card draw to fuel the plan.
I haven't tested Skirsdag Priest yet, though I don't think it will serve the same purpose as Artist. Artist gives us extra reach in the late game, letting us push through for the win. Priest tokens can be removed/chump blocked and wouldn't be as reliable for that. I see Priest as a pseudo-beater, in that it makes good beaters consistently w/ Aristocrat out.
I don't believe Skirsdag is the way we want to go. It doesn't serve as well as Blood Artist does. Blood Artist gives us that oh so succulent reach. Skirsdag gives us a beater and a fairly easy to remove beater that doesn't contribute anything back. Blood Artist is just too delicious. A better output with less input vs less output and more input. I'll take the Artist.
I think BWr is the way to go. Falkenrath Aristocrat really adds to the Sacrifice synergy and gives us a win condition. I really need some more playtime with the deck.
I'm really skeptical about having a playset of Blind Obedience, even in the SB. It seems to not actually do a whole lot.
I'm going to be testing this BWr list. Changes likely to come: High Priest of Penance over Bloodthrone Vampire.
I have problems with these decks:
Junk Rites
Bant Enchant
How do I side/play correctly against them?
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I think you should start by cuting bloodthrone vampire. he isn't that great in the early game unless you have gravwcrawler and another zombie. late game he only valuable as a sac outlet. either way the other aristocrats are better. you should have a fourth falkenrath. if you do that you should find lingering souls less valuable so you can cut two of them. this should open up space for two zealous conscripts which will help the rites match up. resto angel has been working nice in my deck as a two of. I often side her out for graveyard hate like cremate or rakdous charm. this deck needs an early agro start with conscripts falkenrath as closers. resto angels and blood artist are for reach.
If one goes junk zombies, 4-8 x Swamp, 4 x Godless Shrine, 4 x Overgrown Tomb, 4 x Isolated Chapel, 4 x Woodland Cemetary allows a manabase that supports one-pip white and green spells at the same time as guaranteeing Messenger being playable- and the idea that Messenger (despite being incredible value and a strong draw to playing Zombies in the first place) is mandatory is probably a little short-sighted.
Having said that, I haven't got any better suggestions/ideas than Brahamcat's list!
Abrupt Decay is one of the best removal spells in the game right now, and you could always figure out a way to fit in Sorin, Lord if Innistrad, Lingering Souls, Grisly Salvage, Selesnya Charm is just an all around great card..... I done this deck as and only as a rough draft wishing someone could tinker around with it...just so we could see if Junnk Zombies could be viable..
The only thing I don't like about this deck is that I feel like I'd be wanting more sac outlets. I think atleast 6 is a good start. Jarad could possibly be an option. BBGG, Sac outlet for direct damage(a 3 mana fling, if you will). It would be hella fast with the zombie nutdraw and a cartel aristocrat in the mix(exiling slitherhead to her would be pretty freakin' awesome). So its all up to whether you want more opportunities to sacrifice creatures(to inadvertently deal damage) or beat face.
I dropped Diregraf because he acts like a 2 drop. I feel that Lotleth troll and Slitherhead would make up for the possible damage/blocks provided by Diregraf. Plus, Slitherhead is asking to be put in the grave...while Diregraf doesn't really care.
I think the deck could match the amount of damage straight BW Zombies could deal but I'm not sure.
Lingering Souls seems like a weaker card in this deck. It still serves as fodder to block and trigger BA or as sacrifices but it just seems like it's been thrown in the deck.
The focus of the deck is honestly Lotleth Troll + Cartel Aristocrat. Getting in that damage by them is the focus. I envision a 3/3 Cartel from Slitherhead swinging in every turn.
Something important to note is that the green creatures HAVE to be played on curve for them to work. THEY MUST be played ON their turn. BW zombies could get away with it a little bit because all the creatures have relevance ALL the time. Lotleth Troll and Dreg Mangler serve their potential the most on T2 and T3. Dreg will get in 3 damage and Troll will have time to grow bigger as the game goes on. If I had a choice between playing Cartel Aristocrat and Lotleth Troll T2...I'd probably play Lotleth if there aren't any creatures that NEED to be answered. I will ALMOST ALWAYS play Dreg Mangler over Geralf's T3. Geralf is burn. Even if it is outclassed by the other person's creatures, it can still shove 4 damage down their throat. Dreg Mangler...not so much. He needs to be on time with Abrupt Decay's to remove the creatures in his way.
Whether this is better than BWr...I don't know. Falkenrath Aristocrat is just the end all be all closer for a deck like this. It sacs, it flies, its indestructable, its hasty.
...what'd really be great...is if we COULD PLAY 4COLOR AGGRO ZOMBIES YEAH. LINGERING, LOTLETH, DREG, GERALF, FALKENRATH FTW.
haha no way. would just be Jund Zombies with splash of white. I don't recall Jund working.
AND btw, I've never played with Restoration Angel..can someone explain to me all her shenanigans? Are creatures in your graveyard under your control so you can target them with Resto? If you declare a creature a blocker and then target them with Resto will damage be blocked and the creature saved? What if you blinked your attacker after blockers have been declared?
If one goes junk zombies, 4-8 x Swamp, 4 x Godless Shrine, 4 x Overgrown Tomb, 4 x Isolated Chapel, 4 x Woodland Cemetary allows a manabase that supports one-pip white and green spells at the same time as guaranteeing Messenger being playable- and the idea that Messenger (despite being incredible value and a strong draw to playing Zombies in the first place) is mandatory is probably a little short-sighted.
Having said that, I haven't got any better suggestions/ideas than Brahamcat's list!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Branhamcat
ok lets imagine a junk zombies..Im doing this only as a rough draft so we may be able to put something together as a group on here...
Abrupt Decay is one of the best removal spells in the game right now, and you could always figure out a way to fit in Sorin, Lord if Innistrad, Lingering Souls, Grisly Salvage, Selesnya Charm is just an all around great card..... I done this deck as and only as a rough draft wishing someone could tinker around with it...just so we could see if Junnk Zombies could be viable..
The only thing I don't like about this deck is that I feel like I'd be wanting more sac outlets. I think atleast 6 is a good start. Jarad could possibly be an option. BBGG, Sac outlet for direct damage(a 3 mana fling, if you will). It would be hella fast with the zombie nutdraw and a cartel aristocrat in the mix(exiling slitherhead to her would be pretty freakin' awesome). So its all up to whether you want more opportunities to sacrifice creatures(to inadvertently deal damage) or beat face.
I dropped Diregraf because he acts like a 2 drop. I feel that Lotleth troll and Slitherhead would make up for the possible damage/blocks provided by Diregraf. Plus, Slitherhead is asking to be put in the grave...while Diregraf doesn't really care.
I think the deck could match the amount of damage straight BW Zombies could deal but I'm not sure.
Lingering Souls seems like a weaker card in this deck. It still serves as fodder to block and trigger BA or as sacrifices but it just seems like it's been thrown in the deck.
The focus of the deck is honestly Lotleth Troll + Cartel Aristocrat. Getting in that damage by them is the focus. I envision a 3/3 Cartel from Slitherhead swinging in every turn.
Something important to note is that the green creatures HAVE to be played on curve for them to work. THEY MUST be played ON their turn. BW zombies could get away with it a little bit because all the creatures have relevance ALL the time. Lotleth Troll and Dreg Mangler serve their potential the most on T2 and T3. Dreg will get in 3 damage and Troll will have time to grow bigger as the game goes on. If I had a choice between playing Cartel Aristocrat and Lotleth Troll T2...I'd probably play Lotleth if there aren't any creatures that NEED to be answered. I will ALMOST ALWAYS play Dreg Mangler over Geralf's T3. Geralf is burn. Even if it is outclassed by the other person's creatures, it can still shove 4 damage down their throat. Dreg Mangler...not so much. He needs to be on time with Abrupt Decay's to remove the creatures in his way.
Whether this is better than BWr...I don't know. Falkenrath Aristocrat is just the end all be all closer for a deck like this. It sacs, it flies, its indestructable, its hasty.
...what'd really be great...is if we COULD PLAY 4COLOR AGGRO ZOMBIES YEAH. LINGERING, LOTLETH, DREG, GERALF, FALKENRATH FTW.
haha no way. would just be Jund Zombies with splash of white. I don't recall Jund working.
AND btw, I've never played with Restoration Angel..can someone explain to me all her shenanigans? Are creatures in your graveyard under your control so you can target them with Resto? If you declare a creature a blocker and then target them with Resto will damage be blocked and the creature saved? What if you blinked your attacker after blockers have been declared?
I honesty don't see junk zombies as playable. slitherhead and troll don't enough even when you play them on turn two. decay is about the best thing this deck has going for it. I agree that your list lacks a closer, which is why red is more desirable than green.
if you are not sure how resto angels works or all of the inter actions of the card then you might want post in another thread. it would take up way too much time to type up how to play restoration angel.
Okie Dokes! So... I played this deck (Bw for the record) at FNM last week (about 15 people) to moderate success. I went 3-1 but my schedule wasn't as aggressive as it could have been. I played against a WUb tokens deck (my loss) a RWb token deck and two others which never really had a chance to get off the ground.
The deck I played was moderately restricted because of the cards I had at the time but was as follows: (I knew nothing about the meta going into the night because it was my first paper FNM)
The sideboard was unimportant for the most part. I brought in vampire nighthawks against the token decks to deal with their barrage of flying spirit tokens.
There are a few things I have noticed about the deck that I would like to address with a new build for next week.
First Cartel Aristocrat is a beast. Y'all already knew that but I think it is worth saying again. I really think Bloodthorn Vampire should only be considered alongside our aristocratic friend not in place of.
Second Blind Obedience helps against more than simply aggro. I plan on playing a 2/2 split (if not 3/1) going forward.
Third Diregraf Ghoul was always underwhelming to me. I felt like I played him only as a way to recur Gravecrawler which is important but can't be a card's only purpose. When I saw the idea above about slitherhead it really clicked for me. I think I am going to try him out instead next week as it could be pretty helpful. It will let me recur gravecrawler AND give souls' tokens, restoration angels and aristocrats further reach.
Finally 24 lands was too much. 23 is where I want to be but I am not 100% sure of the split yet. I think I am going to go down to 1 vault of the archangel to start out.
That all being said I am looking at this for next week:
With a sideboard I am still kind of blank on what the meta is like at my local store but I can only assume I will see Junk Reanimator and quick aggro...
TLDNR - This is a lot to read and might not be that helpful. Key questions I have for the community are:
1 - How do people feel about Slitherhead in Bw in the place of Diregraf Ghoul?
2 - What do you think our best sideboard options are against Junk Reanimator?
3 - Do you think Cavern of Souls is actually helpful in the majority of matchups?
I've seen a few folks mention dropping Lotleth Troll on turn 2, and then following it with another creature. Just to let you know, this can be a very bad play unless you are playing someone with no removal. Troll wants to be a turn 3 drop since you want to leave up regen mana, otherwise you're just asking for him to be pillared, abrupt decayed, murdered, searing speared, or other 1-3 mana removal.
And yes, I understand that you can dump your hand to save the troll, but is it worth dropping 2-3 creatures from your hand to save one creature? Sometimes that might be a yes, but often it is no.
Has anyone found any really good answers to Junk Reanimator in B/W? It gives me so much more trouble than I think it should. It probably comes down to me not being a good player, but I'm open to any advice.
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Has anyone found any really good answers to Junk Reanimator in B/W? It gives me so much more trouble than I think it should. It probably comes down to me not being a good player, but I'm open to any advice.
Has anyone found any really good answers to Junk Reanimator in B/W? It gives me so much more trouble than I think it should. It probably comes down to me not being a good player, but I'm open to any advice.
vampire nighthawk is decent ok n the fact it trades with everything. this friday I waa gona switch up my sb and use more lingering souls and planeswalkers and see how that works. j
Lotleth Troll and Dreg Mangler give you some solid bodies. Although I found that I sided out Dreg Manger a lot against Loxodon Smiters, but the Troll was very good at brickwalling opposing R/xDW or Naya Aggro.
You also get some SB options in the form of Huntmaster of the Fells, Kessig Wolf Runs, etc.
Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
I have been playing B/W since Gatecrash dropped and really like the deck, although Jund Mid-Range seems to punish me more than any other archetype. Way way too many Thragtusk and Huntmaster of the Fells than I can count. I recently dropped Cartel Aristocrac for Bloodthrone Vampire. The Vamp can be extremely bursty early on paired with Lingering Souls tokens and late game can turn the tide. Being able to sac all your blockers or blocked creatures puts your opponent in a precarious position as how to assign blocks or if they want to attack at all. Something else that recently came to my attention that I am going to be play testing shortly is dropping Obzedat, Ghost Council in favor of trying out Faith's Reward. Idea here is to sac all your stuff get the damage from triggers and repeat for 4 mana and hopefully be able to win more consistently turns 4-5.
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Current Decks Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BWGUB Sultai Constrictor BUG Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG Modern : GB Golgari Elves BGGR Atarka Goblins RG Pauper : W Heroic WGB Delve BG
Beat: Naya, Bant Hex Proof, Rg Aggro, Jund Midrange. Drew into top 8 at 3-1-1. Lost to Naya Aggro in Finals (ran 4 thundermaw).
Overall it was very fun and pretty interesting, I feel like I definitely want tragic slips in the MB. Hard to decide what to take out. Might try out KoI as well.
ok..... I started this thread out with an Orzhov Zomie deck..... Now due to the trouble I have against the Junk Rites deck styles.... I believe I will be leaning more towards a Rakdos Zombie build since I think it may provide more answers than I currently have with Orzhov...... So here it goes
~ With this build I think I be more offensive with Falkenrath Aristocrat in place of the Restoration Angel. And I also believe that while keeping on the offensive I will also be able to control both mid-range and aggro decks much easier with cards such as Bonfire of the Damned, acting as both a sweeper and a finisher. Rakdos's Return should provide me an edge against mid-range match up such as Naya, Bant, and Rites. The addition of Dreadbore gives me an answer to both creatures as well as Walkers...... And in the side I gain possibly the best SB card in the game right now in Slaughter Games..... So let me know what you guys think about it as opposed to the Orzhov Build
This came from the latest SCG Columbia, 4th place. Just note the SB can be tuned for any particular meta (such as Appetite for Brains instead of Duress)
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The Soul of the World has returned.
Currently playing (when I can): Legacy/Modern Combo Elves & Burn and Pauper Stompy & Goblins. Level 1 DCI Judge
Economist & College Professor
Will not beat Junk consistently. With Jund decks packing mainboard Ground seal, and everybody packing GY hate, Im not too sure how well positioned it is.
Ground Seal doesn't affect us? We're not targeting anything in the yard, the only interaction in the yard is recasting Gravecrawler/LS. Also, update. Altar's Reap. Play it. It's ridiculous. I'm really loving how much this deck rewards good play. Combat math is important, knowing when to trade/sacrifice in relation to Artistocrats/Blood Artists is important. So many tricks w/ Restoration Angel & Orzhov Charm. Here's my current list for reference;
4x Gravecrawler
4x Lotleth Troll
3x Dregmangler
4x Geralf's Messenger
3x Blood Artist
4x Cartel Aristocrat
4x Restoration Angel
3x Abrupt Decay
4x Isolated Chapel
4x Godless Shrine
4x Overgrown Tomb
4x Woodland Cemetery
3x Cavern of Souls
5x Swamp
Abrupt Decay is one of the best removal spells in the game right now, and you could always figure out a way to fit in Sorin, Lord if Innistrad, Lingering Souls, Grisly Salvage, Selesnya Charm is just an all around great card..... I done this deck as and only as a rough draft wishing someone could tinker around with it...just so we could see if Junnk Zombies could be viable..
however, other than the geralfs problem it could still be a fairly strong setup with alot of options to it. and maybe a sideboard plan that could make it resistant to gy hate(ie, something to replace some ofyour zombies so when grafdiggers/RIP get boarded in, it won't mean as much....like smiters in the board to replace some of your geralfs or something, idk)
if my b/w zombies list doesn't hold up that's prolly the direction i'll be heading anyways.
Yeah I saw your deck. Im the same guy you were responding to before. I realized just how important Cartel Aristocrat is(although I'd like to try out Bloodthrone instead of her and see what happens).
I want to try Liliana and SiB simply because they ARE midrangey cards..I haven't played with midrange a whole lot and want to see how it plays.
With my testing of High Priest...its pretty nasty. It keeps planeswalkers from ultimating and just sets up extremely unfavorable 2 for 1's(which is further exasperated by a Blood Artist on the field). It depends on preference to be honest. It just complicates things even more for combat.
I use 3-of simply because thats all I have right now. Going to buy another soon. Although one could argue its to allow for earlier game. Aggro decks really put the hurting on and I'd rather have a Diregraf ghoul instead of a 2nd Falkenrath in my opening hand.
I had Blind in the Mainboard...but as you said its a hit and miss and I had a good night without it last FNM. Honestly...I don't really know how much Blind helps us against Aggro..instead of a Thrull Parasite and Instant speed removal. A lot of the BW Zombies decks that place in the top 16 aren't even running Blind Obedience. More stuff to test!
Thrull allows for Geralf shenanigans, extort, and a blocker.
Blind really helps us against Hellriders, Flinthoofs, Falkenrath Aristo's, and Thundermaws.
Im torn DX
I really want to try out Gloom Surgeon, High Priest, and Thrull Parasite.
Im skeptical of Zealous Conscripts. Yes its most likely game ending since we could swing with their dude and then sac it for our own deliciously evil machinations...so they'd be out a dude, hit by their dude, and serve as fodder for CA, BV, or FA. But, we're running 23 lands...24 would be better for ZC and Im not sure I want to dedicate another land...and Im super afraid of other aggro decks, plus we have plenty of reach. ZC feels a winmore card.
Out of the aggro decks I've fought(Naya Blitz and Naya Midrange several times)...If I don't have atleast a Removal, a blocker, and Lingering Souls..I can't hold out. Even then its hard because Geralf's comes in tapped, and if its Bant Enchant I'm dead by turn 5.
hhmmm...maybe make BW version?
I'll brew it and test when I get the chance.
I can see Skirsdag replacing BWr versions that splash for Falkenrath.
I'm still split on Bloodthrone versus Cartel Aristocrat. Opinions?
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skrisdag priest just isn't that good. outside of magic xmas land this card does not do much of anything without a more reliable way to trigger morbid. the sooner you drop the card the better. and once you do you will wonder why you played it as long as you did.
this card does nothing when it etb is terrible on turn two and needs to different conditions to make something happen late game. it doesn't catch you up if you are behind and can't close out games on its own. play any other card in its spot
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I don't believe Skirsdag is the way we want to go. It doesn't serve as well as Blood Artist does. Blood Artist gives us that oh so succulent reach. Skirsdag gives us a beater and a fairly easy to remove beater that doesn't contribute anything back. Blood Artist is just too delicious. A better output with less input vs less output and more input. I'll take the Artist.
I think BWr is the way to go. Falkenrath Aristocrat really adds to the Sacrifice synergy and gives us a win condition. I really need some more playtime with the deck.
I'm really skeptical about having a playset of Blind Obedience, even in the SB. It seems to not actually do a whole lot.
I'm going to be testing this BWr list. Changes likely to come: High Priest of Penance over Bloodthrone Vampire.
4 Diregraf Ghoul
4 Gravecrawler
4 Geralf's Messenger
4 Cartel Aristocrat
3 Falkenrath Aristocrat
2 Bloodthrone Vampire
4 Blood Artist
Spells:
4 Lingering Souls
4 Orzhov Charm
3 Tragic Slip
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Blood Crypt
4 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
6 Swamp
1 Vault of the Archangel
3 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Appetite for Brains
3 Mutilate
2 Blind Obedience
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Gloom Surgeon
I have problems with these decks:
Junk Rites
Bant Enchant
How do I side/play correctly against them?
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I think you should start by cuting bloodthrone vampire. he isn't that great in the early game unless you have gravwcrawler and another zombie. late game he only valuable as a sac outlet. either way the other aristocrats are better. you should have a fourth falkenrath. if you do that you should find lingering souls less valuable so you can cut two of them. this should open up space for two zealous conscripts which will help the rites match up. resto angel has been working nice in my deck as a two of. I often side her out for graveyard hate like cremate or rakdous charm. this deck needs an early agro start with conscripts falkenrath as closers. resto angels and blood artist are for reach.
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Junk Zombies is definitely possible.
3 Slitherhead
4 Gravecrawler
4 Blood Artist
4 Cartel Aristocrat
4 Lotleth Troll
3 Dreg Mangler
4 Geralf's Messenger
2 Restoration Angel
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Tragic Slip
3 Lingering Souls
Lands: 23
4 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Woodland Cemetery
7 Swamp
The only thing I don't like about this deck is that I feel like I'd be wanting more sac outlets. I think atleast 6 is a good start. Jarad could possibly be an option. BBGG, Sac outlet for direct damage(a 3 mana fling, if you will). It would be hella fast with the zombie nutdraw and a cartel aristocrat in the mix(exiling slitherhead to her would be pretty freakin' awesome). So its all up to whether you want more opportunities to sacrifice creatures(to inadvertently deal damage) or beat face.
I dropped Diregraf because he acts like a 2 drop. I feel that Lotleth troll and Slitherhead would make up for the possible damage/blocks provided by Diregraf. Plus, Slitherhead is asking to be put in the grave...while Diregraf doesn't really care.
I think the deck could match the amount of damage straight BW Zombies could deal but I'm not sure.
Lingering Souls seems like a weaker card in this deck. It still serves as fodder to block and trigger BA or as sacrifices but it just seems like it's been thrown in the deck.
The focus of the deck is honestly Lotleth Troll + Cartel Aristocrat. Getting in that damage by them is the focus. I envision a 3/3 Cartel from Slitherhead swinging in every turn.
Something important to note is that the green creatures HAVE to be played on curve for them to work. THEY MUST be played ON their turn. BW zombies could get away with it a little bit because all the creatures have relevance ALL the time. Lotleth Troll and Dreg Mangler serve their potential the most on T2 and T3. Dreg will get in 3 damage and Troll will have time to grow bigger as the game goes on. If I had a choice between playing Cartel Aristocrat and Lotleth Troll T2...I'd probably play Lotleth if there aren't any creatures that NEED to be answered. I will ALMOST ALWAYS play Dreg Mangler over Geralf's T3. Geralf is burn. Even if it is outclassed by the other person's creatures, it can still shove 4 damage down their throat. Dreg Mangler...not so much. He needs to be on time with Abrupt Decay's to remove the creatures in his way.
Whether this is better than BWr...I don't know. Falkenrath Aristocrat is just the end all be all closer for a deck like this. It sacs, it flies, its indestructable, its hasty.
...what'd really be great...is if we COULD PLAY 4COLOR AGGRO ZOMBIES YEAH. LINGERING, LOTLETH, DREG, GERALF, FALKENRATH FTW.
haha no way. would just be Jund Zombies with splash of white. I don't recall Jund working.
AND btw, I've never played with Restoration Angel..can someone explain to me all her shenanigans? Are creatures in your graveyard under your control so you can target them with Resto? If you declare a creature a blocker and then target them with Resto will damage be blocked and the creature saved? What if you blinked your attacker after blockers have been declared?
I honesty don't see junk zombies as playable. slitherhead and troll don't enough even when you play them on turn two. decay is about the best thing this deck has going for it. I agree that your list lacks a closer, which is why red is more desirable than green.
if you are not sure how resto angels works or all of the inter actions of the card then you might want post in another thread. it would take up way too much time to type up how to play restoration angel.
stick with b/w/r zombieacrats
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The deck I played was moderately restricted because of the cards I had at the time but was as follows: (I knew nothing about the meta going into the night because it was my first paper FNM)
4x Diregraf Ghoul
4x Gravecrawler
4x Blood Artist
4x Cartel Aristocrat
4x Geralf's Messanger
4x Lingering Souls
3x Restoration Angel
2x Obzedat Ghost Council
2x Blind Obedience
3x Orzhov Charm
2x Vault of the Archangel
4x Isolated Chapel
4x Goddless Shrine
3x Orzhov Guildgate
11x Swamp
The sideboard was unimportant for the most part. I brought in vampire nighthawks against the token decks to deal with their barrage of flying spirit tokens.
There are a few things I have noticed about the deck that I would like to address with a new build for next week.
First Cartel Aristocrat is a beast. Y'all already knew that but I think it is worth saying again. I really think Bloodthorn Vampire should only be considered alongside our aristocratic friend not in place of.
Second Blind Obedience helps against more than simply aggro. I plan on playing a 2/2 split (if not 3/1) going forward.
Third Diregraf Ghoul was always underwhelming to me. I felt like I played him only as a way to recur Gravecrawler which is important but can't be a card's only purpose. When I saw the idea above about slitherhead it really clicked for me. I think I am going to try him out instead next week as it could be pretty helpful. It will let me recur gravecrawler AND give souls' tokens, restoration angels and aristocrats further reach.
Finally 24 lands was too much. 23 is where I want to be but I am not 100% sure of the split yet. I think I am going to go down to 1 vault of the archangel to start out.
That all being said I am looking at this for next week:
4x Gravecrawler
3x Slitherhead
3x Blood Artist
4x Cartel Aristocrat
4x Geralf's Messenger
4x Lingering Souls
3x Restoration Angel
2x Obzedat Ghost Council
2x Blind Obedience
3x Tragic Slip
2x Orzhov Charm
1x Mutilate
4x Godless Shrine
4x Isolated Chapel
3x Orzhov Guildgate
11x Swamp
1x Vault of the Archangel
With a sideboard I am still kind of blank on what the meta is like at my local store but I can only assume I will see Junk Reanimator and quick aggro...
4x Beckon Apparition
2x Blind Obedience
2x Oblivion Ring
2x Sorin Lord of Innistrad
1x Mutilate
TLDNR - This is a lot to read and might not be that helpful. Key questions I have for the community are:
1 - How do people feel about Slitherhead in Bw in the place of Diregraf Ghoul?
2 - What do you think our best sideboard options are against Junk Reanimator?
3 - Do you think Cavern of Souls is actually helpful in the majority of matchups?
And yes, I understand that you can dump your hand to save the troll, but is it worth dropping 2-3 creatures from your hand to save one creature? Sometimes that might be a yes, but often it is no.
Just my .02
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Diregraf Ghoul
4 Dreg Mangler
4 Falkenrath Aristocrat
4 Geralf's Messenger
4 Gravecrawler
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Blood Crypt
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Woodland Cemetery
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Brimstone Volley
2 Dreadbore
1 Gift of Orzhova
3 Cremate
2 Olivia Voldaren
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Dreadbore
3 Pillar of Flame
This list took second at a super iq, similar to one that took 4th at a SCG Classic. Going to give it some playtests tonight.
EDH
WBRKaalia of the VastRBW
BChainer, Dementia MasterB
Legacy
0Manaless Dredge0
RGoblinsR
Standard
RBWThe AristocratsWBR
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vampire nighthawk is decent ok n the fact it trades with everything. this friday I waa gona switch up my sb and use more lingering souls and planeswalkers and see how that works. j
Posted from MTGsalvation.com App for Android
EDH
WBRKaalia of the VastRBW
BChainer, Dementia MasterB
Legacy
0Manaless Dredge0
RGoblinsR
Standard
RBWThe AristocratsWBR
Lotleth Troll and Dreg Mangler give you some solid bodies. Although I found that I sided out Dreg Manger a lot against Loxodon Smiters, but the Troll was very good at brickwalling opposing R/xDW or Naya Aggro.
You also get some SB options in the form of Huntmaster of the Fells, Kessig Wolf Runs, etc.
Modern:
Something new every week
Legacy:
Something new everyweek
Current Decks
Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BW GUB Sultai Constrictor BUG
Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG
Modern : GB Golgari Elves BG GR Atarka Goblins RG
Pauper : W Heroic W GB Delve BG
Ran this list.
Creatures (29)
3 Blood Artist
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Diregraf Ghoul
4 Dreg Mangler
4 Falkenrath Aristocrat
4 Geralf's Messenger
4 Gravecrawler
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Blood Crypt
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Woodland Cemetery
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Brimstone Volley
2 Dreadbore
1 Gift of Orzhova
3 Cremate
2 Olivia Voldaren
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Dreadbore
3 Pillar of Flame
Beat: Naya, Bant Hex Proof, Rg Aggro, Jund Midrange. Drew into top 8 at 3-1-1. Lost to Naya Aggro in Finals (ran 4 thundermaw).
Overall it was very fun and pretty interesting, I feel like I definitely want tragic slips in the MB. Hard to decide what to take out. Might try out KoI as well.
4x Gravecrawler
2x Skirsdag High Priest
3x Blood Artist
4x Bloodthrone Vampire
4x Geralf's Messenger
4x Falkenrath Aristocrat
25x Creatures
Spells~
3x Tragic Slip
3x Dreadbore
2x Bonfire of the Damned
2x Rakdos's Return
2x Pillar of the Flame
12x Spells
4x Blood Crypt
4x Dragonskull Summit
3x Cavern of Souls
2x Rakdos Guildgate
10x Swamp
23x Land
3x Tormod's Crypt
3x Slaughter Games
2x Liliana of the Veil
2x Zealous Conscripts
3x Skullcrack
2x Rolling Temblor
15x Sideboard
~ With this build I think I be more offensive with Falkenrath Aristocrat in place of the Restoration Angel. And I also believe that while keeping on the offensive I will also be able to control both mid-range and aggro decks much easier with cards such as Bonfire of the Damned, acting as both a sweeper and a finisher. Rakdos's Return should provide me an edge against mid-range match up such as Naya, Bant, and Rites. The addition of Dreadbore gives me an answer to both creatures as well as Walkers...... And in the side I gain possibly the best SB card in the game right now in Slaughter Games..... So let me know what you guys think about it as opposed to the Orzhov Build
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Diregraf Ghoul
4 Dreg Mangler
4 Falkenrath Aristocrat
4 Geralf's Messenger
4 Gravecrawler
4 Lotleth Troll
3 Swamp
4 Blood Crypt
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Woodland Cemetery
1 Abrupt Decay
3 Brimstone Volley
3 Tragic Slip
1 Dreadbore
2 Victim of Night
2 Olivia Voldaren
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Dreadbore
2 Duress
2 Slaughter Games
This came from the latest SCG Columbia, 4th place. Just note the SB can be tuned for any particular meta (such as Appetite for Brains instead of Duress)
The Soul of the World has returned.
Currently playing (when I can): Legacy/Modern Combo Elves & Burn and Pauper Stompy & Goblins.
Level 1 DCI Judge
Economist & College Professor
3x Blood Artist
4x Cartel Aristocrat
4x Gravercrawler
4x Diregraf Ghoul
4x Geralf's Messenger
4x Restoration Angel
2x Obzedat, Ghost Council
Instants (6)
3x Orzhov Charm
3x Altar's Reap
2x Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
Sorceries (4)
4x Lingering Souls
Lands (23)
4x Orzhov Guildgate
4x Isolated Chapel
4x Godless Shrine
9x Swamp
2x Vault of the Archangel
4x Vampire Nighthawk
3x Oblivion Ring
2x Nevermore
4x Appetite for Brains
2x Liliana of the Veil
EDH
WBRKaalia of the VastRBW
BChainer, Dementia MasterB
Legacy
0Manaless Dredge0
RGoblinsR
Standard
RBWThe AristocratsWBR