What exactly do the Lingering Souls do in this deck? I'm thinking of picking it up and don't quite see their purpose.
Stabilization, pressure, card advantage, and bodies for aristocrats/high priest. The card basically does everything. Oh, and it's great with sorin emblems out of the board.
LP, I'm checking your article out as well. Behind all of your swag is the brain of one of the most intelligent Magic players I've ever known. I guess that's one more thing for you to add to the wall of ego that is your Sally sig.
I can go with that. LK, you are the Mace Windu of red mages...cool, tempered logic in deliberation, but capable of just flat kicking tail when the situation warrants it.
I totally agree, though I think I will not remove the reckoners as in the lists we are seeing lately. It is quite fundamental in the naya blitz matchup and vs other aggro, which are the deck worst matchups. The minotaur is not so bad vs junk or other tragtusk decks also.
The problem with reckoners is that it is bad against the best deck in the format. Currently, aggro (naya blitz, jund aggro, naya humans) only account for less than 15% of the metagame, while junkrites alone accounts for over 20%. You'd expect Aggro to take over again, but until then, I don't think it's correct to MD Reckoners.
I have been wondering that a bit myself. I understand flashback but I was thinking that gather the townsfolk would add to the FA counters. Is plus two counters worse than two extra sacrifice tokens?
Between main and side, I've been liking 3/4 threaten effects in the form of Conscripts and Mark of Mutiny.
Does anyone think they don't need GY hate in the board. I go back and forth with 1 purify the grave vs. 1 zealous conscripts in the board.
@ Johnny: Skirsdag mini-primer.
If High priest is in my hand by turn 2, it's usually my second play unless I have a hand that has another two drop and silverblade paladin. The priest is one of the top 3 cards in your deck as far as potential to win the game(the other two being conscripts and FA).
Against naya blitz, priest is fine, but more of a lategame play since the very first thing you need to do is stabilize and often, you find yourself making multiple blocks the first three turns. Once you stabilize though, it wins the game better then since the demon represents damage and board state.
Against the red decks, a lot of it's value is actually eating searing spear. Seriously, that's decent value since otherwise the priest is probably not doing anything in this matchup.
Against Jund, it's probably your best card after lingering souls. Typical jund games involve trading lots of cards, us having about an 8 point life lead, and then the board being like 2 guys on our side, a tusk on there side, and a couple cards in hand. Lots of wins come from having an active priest on board, sac outlets minimalizing the effects of bonfire, and your opponent having no profitable attacks without kessig in play.
Priest is bad game 1 vs. humanimator, and mediocre, but fine vs. junk reanimator. Against these type of decks, you're generally trying to race angel of serenity and priest and demon tokens are embarrassing vs. AoS. In boarded games are different because they're slower and both decks generally minimalize there reanimation effects. Priest is great vs. midrange decks and junk postboard is a bad midrange deck.
Vs. Control. Who cares because our deck laughs at control. Just resolve FA in a match and see how many azorius charms the other guy can play before he's dead.
Thanks LK. Will keep trying it and try to stay open minded.
I have been wondering that a bit myself. I understand flashback but I was thinking that gather the townsfolk would add to the FA counters. Is plus two counters worse than two extra sacrifice tokens?
Lingering Souls is a lot better than Gather the Townsfolk. Lingering Souls is one of the strongest cards in modern. You need to play it. It does so many things like LK said. It's good in nearly every matchup.
Taking reckoner out of your deck actually makes your deck faster as it smooths your mana(less awkard cavern/reckoner draws) and you end up replacing it with usually a silverblade paladin, knight of infamy, lingering souls, and removal spell each lowing the overall curve of your deck and increasing the power of your champion draws. What reckoners good for is fighting midrange and agro decks, particularly in Naya colors and adding blasphemous act to your sideboard which is a drastic power increase since you gain the "13 you" option.
LP, I'm checking your article out as well. Behind all of your swag is the brain of one of the most intelligent Magic players I've ever known. I guess that's one more thing for you to add to the wall of ego that is your Sally sig.
I can go with that. LK, you are the Mace Windu of red mages...cool, tempered logic in deliberation, but capable of just flat kicking tail when the situation warrants it.
I'd keep the Reckoners in theres still a lotta Jund and Naya out there
Reckoner is actually not that important against jund, though better against naya. Against jund, your plan is generally get some damage in, kill them with fliers before they can get proactive vs. reactive. In sideboard games, you slow down, but you're generally trying to kill them with infinite lingering souls tokens buffed by sorin emblems.
Naya is probably the one matchup where you do really miss reckoner, but it's still even.
LP, I'm checking your article out as well. Behind all of your swag is the brain of one of the most intelligent Magic players I've ever known. I guess that's one more thing for you to add to the wall of ego that is your Sally sig.
I can go with that. LK, you are the Mace Windu of red mages...cool, tempered logic in deliberation, but capable of just flat kicking tail when the situation warrants it.
Reckoner is actually not that important against jund, though better against naya. Against jund, your plan is generally get some damage in, kill them with fliers before they can get proactive vs. reactive. In sideboard games, you slow down, but you're generally trying to kill them with infinite lingering souls tokens buffed by sorin emblems.
Naya is probably the one matchup where you do really miss reckoner, but it's still even.
what does proactive vs reactive mean? and it feels good to just sit there chilling behind your wall of reckoners while going over the top with your spirits/falkenrath.
I've been having mixed results. Mostly I have a really hard time dealing with aggro. Here's my list, some results I got with it, and my question to the community.
In the 1cmc slot, Doomed Traveler has been an all-star. I have been less than thrilled with the Champion of the Parish, even when running more humans. I'm trying to find a replacement. Generally, even when I get him to 3/3 by turn 2 or 3, he's still just trading with a Flinthoof Boar or anything with a Rancor on it. I haven't tested it yet, but am considering Vexing Devil, both as a means of putting the opponent closer to the 13-16 range I need to make a Blasphemous Act go off, and as a much more attractive target for the Orzhov Charm.
I do not like Orzhov Charm. My original list ran 3, and I've cut them entirely. Perhaps I'm playing the card wrong, but I've almost never used the removal or the bounce option. The few times I've used it to remove something, the life loss put me low enough that trample and burn spells were always sufficient to finish me off. And I've had it blow up in my face *twice* with an opponent using a Ghor-Clan Rampager to force an additional 4 life loss. It's essentially only bringing back Doomed Traveler. Against anything aggro, my life total is usually hurting, and the Charm threatens to bring me down to burn range.
I love Blood Artist. He works well with the deck's resiliency theme, makes sweepers hurt the opponent, and can occasionally make the Reckoner + Blasphemous Act combo a one-shot kill.
In the 3cmc slot, I've been running Silverblade Paladin. While I absolutely love him, I'm now going to try the Frontline Medic. An attack with the Medic followed by a Blasphemous Act could be pretty solid. I've tried the list without Boros Reckoner when I was running a more human-centric approach. As everyone has noted, this does help the mana base out considerably. However, I like the interaction with Blasphemous Act too much to go without him.
I prefer Obzedat, Ghost Council in the 5cmc slot over Zealous Conscripts. I think in the last... 11 tournaments I've gone to, I've played against 1 midrange deck. Everything else is aggro or control, and doesn't have a lot of good targets for the Conscripts except for a Hellrideror something, and their value goes down a bit if not running the second sac-outlet in Cartel Aristocrat.
Generally, when I have won against aggro, it's been with the Boros Reckoner, Blasphemous Act combo when there's about 4-6 creatures on the board. With Blood Artist triggers, this almost always puts the opponent low enough that a burn spell or a flyer finishes the job.
My list went 3-1 last FNM, 1-3 for MNM, and 2-2 for WNM. The night I went 3-1 I played three control decks and BW Zombies, with the only loss to a full-foil Dark Bant Control list running Merciless Eviction which really put a hurt on my Blood Artist, which had been making his Supreme Verdict less than ideal. He landed a few Blind Obedience, Rhox Faithmender and Thragtusk and it was game over.
The other two nights where I was 1-3 and 2-2 respectively I played almost entirely Gruul, Jund, and Naya aggro lists, and these are all difficult match ups for me. I can't really keep up with anything running 4 Burning-Tree Emissary, Rancor and Ghor-Clan Rampager make my souls pretty useless.
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My Questions:
1) How is everyone dealing with aggro? Jund aggro is a nightmare for me, especially if they board in Golgari Charm to stop any sweepers I try to play.
I've been having mixed results. Mostly I have a really hard time dealing with aggro. Here's my list, some results I got with it, and my question to the community.
In the 1cmc slot, Doomed Traveler has been an all-star. I have been less than thrilled with the Champion of the Parish, even when running more humans. I'm trying to find a replacement. Generally, even when I get him to 3/3 by turn 2 or 3, he's still just trading with a Flinthoof Boar or anything with a Rancor on it. I haven't tested it yet, but am considering Vexing Devil, both as a means of putting the opponent closer to the 13-16 range I need to make a Blasphemous Act go off, and as a much more attractive target for the Orzhov Charm.
I do not like Orzhov Charm. My original list ran 3, and I've cut them entirely. Perhaps I'm playing the card wrong, but I've almost never used the removal or the bounce option. The few times I've used it to remove something, the life loss put me low enough that trample and burn spells were always sufficient to finish me off. And I've had it blow up in my face *twice* with an opponent using a Ghor-Clan Rampager to force an additional 4 life loss. It's essentially only bringing back Doomed Traveler. Against anything aggro, my life total is usually hurting, and the Charm threatens to bring me down to burn range.
I love Blood Artist. He works well with the deck's resiliency theme, makes sweepers hurt the opponent, and can occasionally make the Reckoner + Blasphemous Act combo a one-shot kill.
In the 3cmc slot, I've been running Silverblade Paladin. While I absolutely love him, I'm now going to try the Frontline Medic. An attack with the Medic followed by a Blasphemous Act could be pretty solid. I've tried the list without Boros Reckoner when I was running a more human-centric approach. As everyone has noted, this does help the mana base out considerably. However, I like the interaction with Blasphemous Act too much to go without him.
I prefer Obzedat, Ghost Council in the 5cmc slot over Zealous Conscripts. I think in the last... 11 tournaments I've gone to, I've played against 1 midrange deck. Everything else is aggro or control, and doesn't have a lot of good targets for the Conscripts except for a Hellrideror something, and their value goes down a bit if not running the second sac-outlet in Cartel Aristocrat.
Generally, when I have won against aggro, it's been with the Boros Reckoner, Blasphemous Act combo when there's about 4-6 creatures on the board. With Blood Artist triggers, this almost always puts the opponent low enough that a burn spell or a flyer finishes the job.
My list went 3-1 last FNM, 1-3 for MNM, and 2-2 for WNM. The night I went 3-1 I played three control decks and BW Zombies, with the only loss to a full-foil Dark Bant Control list running Merciless Eviction which really put a hurt on my Blood Artist, which had been making his Supreme Verdict less than ideal. He landed a few Blind Obedience, Rhox Faithmender and Thragtusk and it was game over.
The other two nights where I was 1-3 and 2-2 respectively I played almost entirely Gruul, Jund, and Naya aggro lists, and these are all difficult match ups for me. I can't really keep up with anything running 4 Burning-Tree Emissary, Rancor and Ghor-Clan Rampager make my souls pretty useless.
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My Questions:
1) How is everyone dealing with aggro? Jund aggro is a nightmare for me, especially if they board in Golgari Charm to stop any sweepers I try to play.
VS aggro you only attack when profitable. You generally want to stall / trade until you can get your Aristocrats / Skisdag High Priest online. I find Cartel Aristocrat to be key here.
Liliana is terrible vs us, and smart players side it out.
what does proactive vs reactive mean? and it feels good to just sit there chilling behind your wall of reckoners while going over the top with your spirits/falkenrath.
Proactive: Actively doing something to your opponent. Example: Duress.
Reactive: Waiting for your opponent to do something, and then reacting. Example: counterspell.
Hey guys, I've been having some success with this deck at the LGS and am wanting to bring it to the TCG 5K Diamond event here in Chicago tomorrow. I've tried the reckoner version but I prefer the reckoner-less version as it seems to run a little smoother. I have some questions about sideboarding choices and sideboarding for matchups as I am wondering if my choices are optimal. My deck for reference:
I've found that tragic slip (for aggro), Obzedat (mid-range/control) Sorin (mid-range/control) and mark of mutiny (mid-range/reanimator) have been cards I want to have for sure in the respective matchups.
I was wondering of the viability of certain other cards: Purify the Grave is for reanimator but occasionally gets blanked when they change to a mid-range list post board. It also gets drawn too late sometimes but that could be a problem with any gy hate. I've been thinking of running Rakdos Charm in it's place as it hits the entire gy and might be able to deal some amount of damage to potentially finish an opponent off.
Nearheath Pilgrim is sometimes great against aggro but also sometimes gets removed before it can do anything. I see lists run Cathedral Sanctifier and/or Rhox Faithmender but the Sanctifier seems just ok and the faithmender seems too slow against some aggro decks. Has anyone found one of these lifegain packages to be better than the other. Is it even a must to include lifegain or is it better to just run more stall/removal cards?
Curse of Death's Hold I bring in against the mirror or other grindy mid-range decks. It is great in the mirror and against other decks running Aristocrat/Lingering souls. It also makes Jund's threats easier to deal with, but I could see dropping it for another sideboard card, possibly another Skirsdag High Priest.
Slaughter Games is a card I'm torn on. I find it is really good against control, these matchups are much easier when I manage to cast a 4th turn games naming Sphinx's Revelation and remove their lifegain/draw engine. It's also been decent for me against reanimator, either naming unburial rites or angel/thragtusk. Sometimes it's not so great there though as it whiffs when they board out some or all of thier rites or is less effective if I don't hit whatever I name in their hand. I don't see it in many other aristocrat lists which leads me to believe that they either don't feel it necessary in those matchups or that it's not effective enough to warrant including over other sideboard options. I could use the sideboard space here to fit in War Priest of Thune or another card to use against fast aggro.
If anyone has any other thoughts on what I can do to improve my sideboard I'd be glad to hear it! Thanks for your time!
So Skirsdag has been working out for you then? Perhaps I'm just playing him wrong / haven't played the deck enough to get value out of him. I'll try it again this week, and if it doesn't work, he gets the axe.
He works. You need to have Linger Souls Tokens, or Doomed Travler + an Aristocrat out. It's not a card that you just play and get a demon -if- you meet the requirements you need to actually set the board up for him to work.
I too am now trying an approach without Boros Reckoner. Went 3-1-1 last night, placing 6th of approximately 24, with my only loss to Jund Midrange (who took first place) and my draw to 4c Reanimator.
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Explanations and Card Choices:
Again, I'm strongly advocating Blood Artist in this list. He won me two rounds of the three I did win. He's fantastic for pushing through the last bit of damage you need, even if it requires sacrificing your entire board to Cartel Aristocrat for the win. I also really enjoy High Priest of Penance. He's my go to High Priest of choice over Skirsdag, though I'm thinking about giving the latter another shot. Both draw removal like crazy, which is nice, because neither is as threatening as our other threats.
Zealous Conscripts continues to disappoint me, even in all the mid-range matches where he should be most useful. I never seem to draw him at the right time, and have never been able to play him when I've had a sac-outlet on the board to prevent returning the creature to my opponent. I do love the card though, so I'm going to keep it in here.
Obzedat, Ghost Council by contrast, is an absolute all-star. I'm not sure why more people aren't running him in the main. He's extremely difficult to deal with and puts the opponent on a clock, providing valuable life-gain.
My sideboard is sketchy, and loaded with burn spells. I like having the Pillar of Flame for aggro matches. Hits Strangleroot Geist and zombies. It has also worked well nuking my own High Priest of Penance to get rid of a planeswalker, or something that has more than 2 toughness.
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Round 1 - vs. Prime-Speaker Bant 2-1
This was a pretty fun match. I lost game 1 to Thragtusk and a hoard of beast tokens. Game 2 I had a much better opening hand, finally getting some Falkenrath Aristocrat, which did not show up during game 1. I won this one with my fliers. Game 3 was the most exciting. I won through sacrificing a ton of spirit tokens to get the Cartel Aristocrat through for damage each turn. By the time I landed a second Blood Artist it was a lock. Opponent tapped out and passed turn at 14 life. I sacrificed my entire board except for the Cartel Aristocrat, dealing 12 damage with Blood Artist and attacking unblocked for the last 2.
Round 2 - vs. Jund Midrange 1-2
As I said, Jund Aggro/Midrange just gives me a huge problem. Lost game 1 after getting hit with three Bonfire of the Damned and two Rakdos's Return. Game 2 I had two Falkenrath Aristocrat in my opening hand. He scooped when I landed the second. Game 3 I got him down to 7, then landed Obzedat, Ghost Council. Lost the game because I forgot to exile him at the end of my turn carelessly. He proceeded to land two Huntmaster of the Fells and finished me off.
Round 3 - vs. Four-color Reanimator 1-1-1
These matches took forever. I lost game 1, but won a quick game 2 with an early Champion of the Parish bonded to a Silverblade Paladin. With less than 10 minutes to go, my opponent argued that it would be better for one of us to concede to give the other a chance at some prizes. We were both 1-1, and I didn't really agree with him, as a 1-1-1 record seemed much better to me than the 1-2 I would have had by forfeiting. I politely declined to forfeit hoping I could win another quick round as I did in game 2. I didn't, and we drew. If I had conceded, I would have finished 3-2, receiving no prizes, and he would have finished 2-1-2... also receiving no prizes. Glad I didn't.
Round 4 - vs. Dega Midrange 2-1
I thought this was the mirror match. I'm not even sure it was entirely midrange. I never saw any creatures except Vampire Nighthawk and Thundermaw Hellkite, both of which gave my souls trouble in game 1. I managed to steal the Hellkite with a Zealous Conscripts getting him to 2 and following with a Falkenrath Aristocrat. A well timed Magmaquake took out my Conscripts before the Aristocrat resolved, and I was forced to chump block the Hellkite. Finished me off next turn. Game 2 and 3 I landed 4th and 5th turn Falkenrath Aristocrat both times. That's almost a guaranteed win.
Round 5 - vs. Junk Reanimator - 2-1
Game 1 I lost to three Thragtusk I couldn't keep up with. Game 2 and 3 went much better for me. Unlike the previous reanimator match, this time I drew my Slaughter Games early enough to make use of them, hitting all four Unburial Rites game 1, and all four Thragtusk in game 3.
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Overall, I'm pleased. However, I didn't go up against a single aggro deck. Gruul and Jund aggro are extremely difficult matchups for me. Once again, if anyone has some input for how to win these matches, I'm all ears. As I understand it, our best option is fliers and Sorin, Lord of Innistrad. While I don't have the latter in my build, I'm not sure how either would be very much help against the sort of deck I lost to, running a slew of Dreadbore to deal with Sorin, a ton of Bonfire of the Damned, Olivia Voldaren and Golgari Charm to deal with souls tokens, and enough Rakdos's Return to make sure I can't keep my hand. On top of that, Thragtusk and Huntmaster of the Fells keeping the life total through the roof.
How are you guys beating Jund? Both aggro and midrange give me trouble.
@Humanrek izzet staticaster could be a huge problem along with some planeswalker Pithing Needle its a great solution for that
i preffer a sorin instead of restoration angel
the card that i really wanna test is assemble the legion against control
I see this comment a lot, that Assemble the Legion is effective against control. As a control player, I'm not sure why. With access to counterspells, Detention Sphere, Cyclonic Rift and probably other stuff I'm forgetting, it doesn't seem particularly threatening. Am I missing something? I've tried it against control, and my opponent never had a hard time dealing with it.
I see this comment a lot, that Assemble the Legion is effective against control. As a control player, I'm not sure why. With access to counterspells, Detention Sphere, Cyclonic Rift and probably other stuff I'm forgetting, it doesn't seem particularly threatening. Am I missing something? I've tried it against control, and my opponent never had a hard time dealing with it.
cuz if u dont get rid of right away gonna give u troubles and yeah u could detention sphere that usually gets the falkenrath and if u combine it with aristocrat / sorin emblem / mentor of the meek(maybe) u get alot of value
btw control players just side out lots of counterspells when they see u playing with caverns and being a deck with 26+ creatures
and cards like supreme verdict / terminus doesnt affect it
planar cleansing / jace architect are good ways to deal with
i could be wrong thats why i wanna test it and see whats going on with this card
As far as Skirsdag Highpriest goes, he is at his best against the aggro decks actually. Against aggro you should usually be looking to gum up the board and then use the priest as a trump. Turning on morbid should not be much of a problem because of the namesake Aristocrats.
I am also a big fan of Blood Artist. It gives the deck incredible reach, and resiliency against control. If you have two out the card just becomes that much more insane.
Anyone thinking about Gift of orzhova as a sideboard card against monored-gruul decks? Crypt is very good, but activation on turn five seems like too little, too late.
Anyone thinking about Gift of orzhova as a sideboard card against monored-gruul decks? Crypt is very good, but activation on turn five seems like too little, too late.
I'm not sure what you're referring to with "Crypt." Did you mean Vault of the Archangel?
Sublime was a real underpreformer and I cut it. Restoration Angel is decent and having one in your deck give you an extra angle (heh) of play. Resto's stats are so good that you don't need to get value out of the ETB-trigger, just flickering in combat or to dodge removal is good enough.
The reason for the Nighthawks in the SB is because I saw it in someones decklist at a SCGO, I think his reasoning was that Nighthawk is easier to cast (his deck had 1 Swamp among other changes). When I made the switch from Slayer's Stronghold to Vault of the Archangel in the maindeck I changed the SB-slots to 3 Boros Reckonner.
Someone said Sorin should be good vs aggro, I disagree. I first played 10 post SB games versus Naya Blitz and went 7-3. Then I cheated and planted Sorin in my starting hand for three games and lost them all. Not a lot of data but even in the first games I felt he wouldn't be good. 1/1's on turn 4 do not trade with anything so Sorin is only good when you have stabilized (and from there you should almost always win anyway).
To be honest I have some problems with how I should sideboard vs Naya Aggro, here is my current list:
Naya Blitz can have Gruul Charm and Lingering Souls is too slow many times, therefore I cut one or two. Orzhov Charm cost life, but I keep one because Blitz have a few creatures you must kill (Frontline Medic, sometimes Mayor). Cartel Aristocrat is not very good in this match up and I cut some cards it likes (Souls, Conscrips) so I shave a copy. Does this seem correct to you guys?
About Silverblade Paladin: I feel this guy is GREAT! Removal is hardly a part of the format so he easily dominates boards. With a 2/2 partner he represents 6 damage a turn and he have semi-haste.
About 3/4 Cavern of Souls: Now that I have 3 Reckonners in my sideboard it is possible I should go down to 3 Caverns and add a Plains (?).
I think if you're going for Boros Reckoner then you may as well run Blasphemous Act over Bonfire. I'm always iffy on leaning on red spells in this deck since you can't use Cavern and the deck is light on actual red producing lands. Not a good combo when bonfire is only of interest if miracle (and we have no real interest in a red source until later)
I personally sideboard against Blitz by cutting Conscripts, Souls and my utility land (I run Stronghold...find it more useful than Vault at hasting a late 1 drop, turning Cartel Aristocrat into 4 power when pushing through last bit with protection or boosting Silverblade) for more spot removal and Nearheath Pilgrim. My usual game plan is to push enough damage that I can finish it before they get rolling...a big champion or a KoI plays defense well and Pilgrim lets us grind a race.
I think cutting Orzhov Charm is wrong since you will happily pay the life early on to save damage recurring, break up battalion etc. Late on it can recur a Doomed Traveller for chumps, Champion buff, Aristocrat food or even reset a Silverblade pairing for something like Falkenrath to come down and crash.
I also find Cartel Aristocrat very good...if you're going to lean on slip you want ways to turn on morbid before damage and save yourself some life points. Plus she's good for getting in the last few points.
Stabilization, pressure, card advantage, and bodies for aristocrats/high priest. The card basically does everything. Oh, and it's great with sorin emblems out of the board.
The problem with reckoners is that it is bad against the best deck in the format. Currently, aggro (naya blitz, jund aggro, naya humans) only account for less than 15% of the metagame, while junkrites alone accounts for over 20%. You'd expect Aggro to take over again, but until then, I don't think it's correct to MD Reckoners.
Thanks LK. Will keep trying it and try to stay open minded.
Lingering Souls is a lot better than Gather the Townsfolk. Lingering Souls is one of the strongest cards in modern. You need to play it. It does so many things like LK said. It's good in nearly every matchup.
Fires Rf Salvation
"We win because, much like fire-starting, we find a way to make it happen."
-Khaospawn
Mono-Red
RRR
Reckoner is actually not that important against jund, though better against naya. Against jund, your plan is generally get some damage in, kill them with fliers before they can get proactive vs. reactive. In sideboard games, you slow down, but you're generally trying to kill them with infinite lingering souls tokens buffed by sorin emblems.
Naya is probably the one matchup where you do really miss reckoner, but it's still even.
what does proactive vs reactive mean? and it feels good to just sit there chilling behind your wall of reckoners while going over the top with your spirits/falkenrath.
Fires Rf Salvation
"We win because, much like fire-starting, we find a way to make it happen."
-Khaospawn
Mono-Red
RRR
========================================================
My List:
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Doomed Traveler
4 High Priest of Penance
3 Blood Artist
3 Silverblade Paladin
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Falkenrath Aristocrat
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
4 Lingering Souls
2 Blasphemous Act
Planeswalkers: 2
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
Lands: 24
4 Godless Shrine
3 Isolated Chapel
4 Blood Crypt
3 Dragonskull Summit
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Clifftop Retreat
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Vault of the Archangel
My sideboard is under construction.
Explanations and Card Choices --
In the 1cmc slot, Doomed Traveler has been an all-star. I have been less than thrilled with the Champion of the Parish, even when running more humans. I'm trying to find a replacement. Generally, even when I get him to 3/3 by turn 2 or 3, he's still just trading with a Flinthoof Boar or anything with a Rancor on it. I haven't tested it yet, but am considering Vexing Devil, both as a means of putting the opponent closer to the 13-16 range I need to make a Blasphemous Act go off, and as a much more attractive target for the Orzhov Charm.
In the 2cmc slot, I keep waffling between Cartel Aristocrat and High Priest of Penance. I generally prefer the latter. Alone, or in conjunction with Boros Reckoner it makes the opponent hesitant to attack.
I do not like Orzhov Charm. My original list ran 3, and I've cut them entirely. Perhaps I'm playing the card wrong, but I've almost never used the removal or the bounce option. The few times I've used it to remove something, the life loss put me low enough that trample and burn spells were always sufficient to finish me off. And I've had it blow up in my face *twice* with an opponent using a Ghor-Clan Rampager to force an additional 4 life loss. It's essentially only bringing back Doomed Traveler. Against anything aggro, my life total is usually hurting, and the Charm threatens to bring me down to burn range.
I love Blood Artist. He works well with the deck's resiliency theme, makes sweepers hurt the opponent, and can occasionally make the Reckoner + Blasphemous Act combo a one-shot kill.
In the 3cmc slot, I've been running Silverblade Paladin. While I absolutely love him, I'm now going to try the Frontline Medic. An attack with the Medic followed by a Blasphemous Act could be pretty solid. I've tried the list without Boros Reckoner when I was running a more human-centric approach. As everyone has noted, this does help the mana base out considerably. However, I like the interaction with Blasphemous Act too much to go without him.
I prefer Obzedat, Ghost Council in the 5cmc slot over Zealous Conscripts. I think in the last... 11 tournaments I've gone to, I've played against 1 midrange deck. Everything else is aggro or control, and doesn't have a lot of good targets for the Conscripts except for a Hellrideror something, and their value goes down a bit if not running the second sac-outlet in Cartel Aristocrat.
Generally, when I have won against aggro, it's been with the Boros Reckoner, Blasphemous Act combo when there's about 4-6 creatures on the board. With Blood Artist triggers, this almost always puts the opponent low enough that a burn spell or a flyer finishes the job.
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Results:
My list went 3-1 last FNM, 1-3 for MNM, and 2-2 for WNM. The night I went 3-1 I played three control decks and BW Zombies, with the only loss to a full-foil Dark Bant Control list running Merciless Eviction which really put a hurt on my Blood Artist, which had been making his Supreme Verdict less than ideal. He landed a few Blind Obedience, Rhox Faithmender and Thragtusk and it was game over.
The other two nights where I was 1-3 and 2-2 respectively I played almost entirely Gruul, Jund, and Naya aggro lists, and these are all difficult match ups for me. I can't really keep up with anything running 4 Burning-Tree Emissary, Rancor and Ghor-Clan Rampager make my souls pretty useless.
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My Questions:
1) How is everyone dealing with aggro? Jund aggro is a nightmare for me, especially if they board in Golgari Charm to stop any sweepers I try to play.
2) What does everyone think about Liliana of the Veil in here?
Your deck has some... interesting choices...
To answer your questions:
VS aggro you only attack when profitable. You generally want to stall / trade until you can get your Aristocrats / Skisdag High Priest online. I find Cartel Aristocrat to be key here.
Liliana is terrible vs us, and smart players side it out.
Proactive: Actively doing something to your opponent. Example: Duress.
Reactive: Waiting for your opponent to do something, and then reacting. Example: counterspell.
4 Blood Crypt
3 Cavern of Souls
1 Clifftop Retreat
4 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
2 Plains
4 Sacred Foundry
1 Swamp
1 Vault of the Archangel
Creatures (28)
4 Cartel Aristocrat
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Doomed Traveler
4 Falkenrath Aristocrat
4 Knight of Infamy
1 Restoration Angel
3 Silverblade Paladin
2 Skirsdag High Priest
2 Zealous Conscripts
3 Lingering Souls
3 Orzhov Charm
2 Tragic Slip
1 Curse of Death's Hold
2 Mark of Mutiny
2 Nearheath Pilgrim
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
2 Purify The Grave
2 Slaughter Games
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
2 Tragic Slip
I've found that tragic slip (for aggro), Obzedat (mid-range/control) Sorin (mid-range/control) and mark of mutiny (mid-range/reanimator) have been cards I want to have for sure in the respective matchups.
I was wondering of the viability of certain other cards:
Purify the Grave is for reanimator but occasionally gets blanked when they change to a mid-range list post board. It also gets drawn too late sometimes but that could be a problem with any gy hate. I've been thinking of running Rakdos Charm in it's place as it hits the entire gy and might be able to deal some amount of damage to potentially finish an opponent off.
Nearheath Pilgrim is sometimes great against aggro but also sometimes gets removed before it can do anything. I see lists run Cathedral Sanctifier and/or Rhox Faithmender but the Sanctifier seems just ok and the faithmender seems too slow against some aggro decks. Has anyone found one of these lifegain packages to be better than the other. Is it even a must to include lifegain or is it better to just run more stall/removal cards?
Curse of Death's Hold I bring in against the mirror or other grindy mid-range decks. It is great in the mirror and against other decks running Aristocrat/Lingering souls. It also makes Jund's threats easier to deal with, but I could see dropping it for another sideboard card, possibly another Skirsdag High Priest.
Slaughter Games is a card I'm torn on. I find it is really good against control, these matchups are much easier when I manage to cast a 4th turn games naming Sphinx's Revelation and remove their lifegain/draw engine. It's also been decent for me against reanimator, either naming unburial rites or angel/thragtusk. Sometimes it's not so great there though as it whiffs when they board out some or all of thier rites or is less effective if I don't hit whatever I name in their hand. I don't see it in many other aristocrat lists which leads me to believe that they either don't feel it necessary in those matchups or that it's not effective enough to warrant including over other sideboard options. I could use the sideboard space here to fit in War Priest of Thune or another card to use against fast aggro.
If anyone has any other thoughts on what I can do to improve my sideboard I'd be glad to hear it! Thanks for your time!
i preffer a sorin instead of restoration angel
the card that i really wanna test is assemble the legion against control
He works. You need to have Linger Souls Tokens, or Doomed Travler + an Aristocrat out. It's not a card that you just play and get a demon -if- you meet the requirements you need to actually set the board up for him to work.
Revised List:
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Doomed Traveler
3 Cartel Aristocrat
3 High Priest of Penance
3 Blood Artist
4 Silverblade Paladin
4 Falkenrath Aristocrat
2 Zealous Conscripts
1 Obzedat, Ghost Council
4 Lingering Souls
4 Tragic Slip
Lands: 24
3 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
3 Blood Crypt
3 Dragonskull Summit
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Clifftop Retreat
2 Plains
1 Vault of the Archangel
4 Pillar of Flame
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Knight of Infamy
2 Slaughter Games
1 Rakdos's Return
1 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Boros Charm
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Explanations and Card Choices:
Again, I'm strongly advocating Blood Artist in this list. He won me two rounds of the three I did win. He's fantastic for pushing through the last bit of damage you need, even if it requires sacrificing your entire board to Cartel Aristocrat for the win. I also really enjoy High Priest of Penance. He's my go to High Priest of choice over Skirsdag, though I'm thinking about giving the latter another shot. Both draw removal like crazy, which is nice, because neither is as threatening as our other threats.
Zealous Conscripts continues to disappoint me, even in all the mid-range matches where he should be most useful. I never seem to draw him at the right time, and have never been able to play him when I've had a sac-outlet on the board to prevent returning the creature to my opponent. I do love the card though, so I'm going to keep it in here.
Obzedat, Ghost Council by contrast, is an absolute all-star. I'm not sure why more people aren't running him in the main. He's extremely difficult to deal with and puts the opponent on a clock, providing valuable life-gain.
My sideboard is sketchy, and loaded with burn spells. I like having the Pillar of Flame for aggro matches. Hits Strangleroot Geist and zombies. It has also worked well nuking my own High Priest of Penance to get rid of a planeswalker, or something that has more than 2 toughness.
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Round 1 - vs. Prime-Speaker Bant 2-1
This was a pretty fun match. I lost game 1 to Thragtusk and a hoard of beast tokens. Game 2 I had a much better opening hand, finally getting some Falkenrath Aristocrat, which did not show up during game 1. I won this one with my fliers. Game 3 was the most exciting. I won through sacrificing a ton of spirit tokens to get the Cartel Aristocrat through for damage each turn. By the time I landed a second Blood Artist it was a lock. Opponent tapped out and passed turn at 14 life. I sacrificed my entire board except for the Cartel Aristocrat, dealing 12 damage with Blood Artist and attacking unblocked for the last 2.
Round 2 - vs. Jund Midrange 1-2
As I said, Jund Aggro/Midrange just gives me a huge problem. Lost game 1 after getting hit with three Bonfire of the Damned and two Rakdos's Return. Game 2 I had two Falkenrath Aristocrat in my opening hand. He scooped when I landed the second. Game 3 I got him down to 7, then landed Obzedat, Ghost Council. Lost the game because I forgot to exile him at the end of my turn carelessly. He proceeded to land two Huntmaster of the Fells and finished me off.
Round 3 - vs. Four-color Reanimator 1-1-1
These matches took forever. I lost game 1, but won a quick game 2 with an early Champion of the Parish bonded to a Silverblade Paladin. With less than 10 minutes to go, my opponent argued that it would be better for one of us to concede to give the other a chance at some prizes. We were both 1-1, and I didn't really agree with him, as a 1-1-1 record seemed much better to me than the 1-2 I would have had by forfeiting. I politely declined to forfeit hoping I could win another quick round as I did in game 2. I didn't, and we drew. If I had conceded, I would have finished 3-2, receiving no prizes, and he would have finished 2-1-2... also receiving no prizes. Glad I didn't.
Round 4 - vs. Dega Midrange 2-1
I thought this was the mirror match. I'm not even sure it was entirely midrange. I never saw any creatures except Vampire Nighthawk and Thundermaw Hellkite, both of which gave my souls trouble in game 1. I managed to steal the Hellkite with a Zealous Conscripts getting him to 2 and following with a Falkenrath Aristocrat. A well timed Magmaquake took out my Conscripts before the Aristocrat resolved, and I was forced to chump block the Hellkite. Finished me off next turn. Game 2 and 3 I landed 4th and 5th turn Falkenrath Aristocrat both times. That's almost a guaranteed win.
Round 5 - vs. Junk Reanimator - 2-1
Game 1 I lost to three Thragtusk I couldn't keep up with. Game 2 and 3 went much better for me. Unlike the previous reanimator match, this time I drew my Slaughter Games early enough to make use of them, hitting all four Unburial Rites game 1, and all four Thragtusk in game 3.
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Overall, I'm pleased. However, I didn't go up against a single aggro deck. Gruul and Jund aggro are extremely difficult matchups for me. Once again, if anyone has some input for how to win these matches, I'm all ears. As I understand it, our best option is fliers and Sorin, Lord of Innistrad. While I don't have the latter in my build, I'm not sure how either would be very much help against the sort of deck I lost to, running a slew of Dreadbore to deal with Sorin, a ton of Bonfire of the Damned, Olivia Voldaren and Golgari Charm to deal with souls tokens, and enough Rakdos's Return to make sure I can't keep my hand. On top of that, Thragtusk and Huntmaster of the Fells keeping the life total through the roof.
How are you guys beating Jund? Both aggro and midrange give me trouble.
And how are we beating Gruul aggro? T1 Stromkirk Noble into T2 Ash Zealot into T3 Rancor + Ghor-Clan Rampager, plus the Burning-Tree Emissary are really, really difficult for me to keep up with. This deck is just too explosive.
I see this comment a lot, that Assemble the Legion is effective against control. As a control player, I'm not sure why. With access to counterspells, Detention Sphere, Cyclonic Rift and probably other stuff I'm forgetting, it doesn't seem particularly threatening. Am I missing something? I've tried it against control, and my opponent never had a hard time dealing with it.
cuz if u dont get rid of right away gonna give u troubles and yeah u could detention sphere that usually gets the falkenrath and if u combine it with aristocrat / sorin emblem / mentor of the meek(maybe) u get alot of value
btw control players just side out lots of counterspells when they see u playing with caverns and being a deck with 26+ creatures
and cards like supreme verdict / terminus doesnt affect it
planar cleansing / jace architect are good ways to deal with
i could be wrong thats why i wanna test it and see whats going on with this card
Control usually doesn't give me too many problems. Blood Artist makes them pretty hesitant with board wipes.
I am also a big fan of Blood Artist. It gives the deck incredible reach, and resiliency against control. If you have two out the card just becomes that much more insane.
I'm not sure what you're referring to with "Crypt." Did you mean Vault of the Archangel?
Gift of Orzhova just seems terrible. If you want more lifegain, there are cheaper and better options. I like Nearheath Pilgrim and Blood Artist.
I think if you're going for Boros Reckoner then you may as well run Blasphemous Act over Bonfire. I'm always iffy on leaning on red spells in this deck since you can't use Cavern and the deck is light on actual red producing lands. Not a good combo when bonfire is only of interest if miracle (and we have no real interest in a red source until later)
I personally sideboard against Blitz by cutting Conscripts, Souls and my utility land (I run Stronghold...find it more useful than Vault at hasting a late 1 drop, turning Cartel Aristocrat into 4 power when pushing through last bit with protection or boosting Silverblade) for more spot removal and Nearheath Pilgrim. My usual game plan is to push enough damage that I can finish it before they get rolling...a big champion or a KoI plays defense well and Pilgrim lets us grind a race.
I think cutting Orzhov Charm is wrong since you will happily pay the life early on to save damage recurring, break up battalion etc. Late on it can recur a Doomed Traveller for chumps, Champion buff, Aristocrat food or even reset a Silverblade pairing for something like Falkenrath to come down and crash.
I also find Cartel Aristocrat very good...if you're going to lean on slip you want ways to turn on morbid before damage and save yourself some life points. Plus she's good for getting in the last few points.
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