Went 4-1 last night for second place. My loss was to
T1 Arbor elf
T2 Flinthoof boar as a 3/3 with haste
T3 Huntmaster of the Fells
T4 Hellrider
T5 Clan Defiance ftw.
Was 1-2 that round to hands like that... Even Boros Reckoner and Rolling Temblor were not going to save me.
Some notes:
Dreadbore was the worst card in the deck. Charm cost life, but the instant speed is far more valuable I noticed. dreadbore being a 2CC sorcery is just terrible. I would have rather had Pillar of Flame.
Games were primarily won off the back of Gideon. Rolling Temblor, Boros Reckoner, Lingering Souls, Liliana are all solid moves into t4 Gideon and he was a complete house in the deck all night. I won a couple games with Obzedat and 2 with my single Auriela and one or two with Thundermaw Hellkite, but Gideon was my strongest and most consistent win condition.
Rakdos Return was used in place of Purge the Profane, and while it scales, there were many times I had it in my hand and the two life and discard would have just **** them out, but alas, Return was still a solid card by the end of the night. Probably coming out of my list which I will post in a bit. Purge the profane is out as well, I feel I want the discard slots but not sure what spell I really want to achieve it.
Boros Reckoner and Rolling Temblor is sickening good against midrange and sometimes even control G1. But sweeping out Thragtusks and other ground pounders that survive a Temblor is handy as can be.
I will post my list in a bit. It took me a while to get it to where I felt I could take it to my local shop because I never know what to expect from everyone there, it can be drastically different from week to week. But I am glad I had a chance to get an FNM in with it to give me a bit more insight with people outside of my play group and their decks.
Saying Jund is running better cards is a misconception. There might be a bit of overlap when it comes to RB cards, but adding white adds a much different dynamic.
After running this deck through a varied event, Gideon just crushes midrange strategies as well as control strategies and is strong as a finisher over TMH.
Saying Jund is running better cards is a misconception. There might be a bit of overlap when it comes to RB cards, but adding white adds a much different dynamic.
After running this deck through a varied event, Gideon just crushes midrange strategies as well as control strategies and is strong as a finisher over TMH.
There are no Liliana's simply because I don't have them. I would like to be playing them but she's a little ridiculous to get ahold of at the moment (~45 tix and rising). The deck functions just fine without her, though.
Matches:
R1: Naya Midrange, 0-2
It may have just been bad draws, but I have a feeling this is a terrible matchup. Everything that they play things I hate playing against. Loxodon Smiter laughs at Reckoner, Thragtusk provides ridiculous advantage, Resto Angel negates your removal. This is not what the deck is designed to play against, and it shows.
R2: WB Aggro/Midrange, 2-0
This is more like it. I have plenty of removal to deal with their early 2 power threats, as well as Gloom Surgeon to keep them off of attacking at all. This deck also folds to Boros Reckoner. Imo a good matchup.
R3: Human Reanimator, 2-1
I lost game 1 to the combo with a hand full of sorcery speed removal. Felt bad, but post board the matchup improves significantly. Between Slaughter Games and Rest in Peace, they'll have a hard time getting much done. Their beatdown plan B is fairly weak and easy to handle.
R4: Golgari Aggro, 2-1
Plenty of removal for early threats. Strangeroot Geist is midly annoying, and Predator Ooze can get out of hand fairly fast, especially with a Rancor on it. (My Game 2 loss) However, they don't have an answer to Obzedat, and Olivia can take out their whole board. Reckoner is a big problem for them, and Gloom Surgeon does a lot of work as well. Overall a good matchup so long as you have a way of getting rid of Predator Ooze. (Oring, Tragic Slip, Liliana)
this is "developing competitive". if you want to make a kitchen table deck, go to a different forum. otherwise, assume that everyone here is a spike.
developing competitive is a place where you can devolop your list / idea to a competitive one.
Nope, not all competitive players are spike. And also, there exist spikes that are brainless, they only netdeck at any deck winning the tournament and copy the playstyle.
However, every competitive deck you netdeck, are once brewed like this, with trial end error.
I believe that humananimator and omnidoor thragfire are more johnny style deck, but they can break into competitive zone. And still, before they become competitive, you are the kind of person that will insult that deck.
I don't say that I'm sure this deck can break competitive zone, I'm also still curious right now.
But at least, an out of the box brew like this, always have potential. Because no one pay attention at this wedge potential.
You played JESUS?!?! I heard none of his guys stay in the graveyard, and once you think you have him beat he ALWAYS comes back to win within three turns. I like...WORSHIP him.
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Nope, not all competitive players are spike. And also, there exist spikes that are brainless, they only netdeck at any deck winning the tournament and copy the playstyle.
You seem to be implying that copying a winning list from a tournament is bad.
Andy, Naya Midrange is not a terrible match. It shouldn't be at least. SB you have tools like Slaughter Games, Appetite for Brains and spare removal. Gideon is a power house against midrange. Smiter doesn't laugh ate Boris Reckoner, it is still a 3 drop trade I don't really mind making if I have no removal for it, and if they resto in then at least they did not do it on a thrag tusk. If you can keep them at bay to let something like Obzedat or Thundermaw resolve you are in good shape, and Auriela is brutal for them once you start jamming up the board to a stand still. Just have to play a slower control game with the right tools.
You played JESUS?!?! I heard none of his guys stay in the graveyard, and once you think you have him beat he ALWAYS comes back to win within three turns. I like...WORSHIP him.
Andy, Naya Midrange is not a terrible match. It shouldn't be at least. SB you have tools like Slaughter Games, Appetite for Brains and spare removal. Gideon is a power house against midrange. Smiter doesn't laugh ate Boris Reckoner, it is still a 3 drop trade I don't really mind making if I have no removal for it, and if they resto in then at least they did not do it on a thrag tusk. If you can keep them at bay to let something like Obzedat or Thundermaw resolve you are in good shape, and Auriela is brutal for them once you start jamming up the board to a stand still. Just have to play a slower control game with the right tools.
I didn't get an opportunity to play against it in the practice rooms so this was my first time playing the matchup. It may just been my draws, then. I didn't write anything down but iirc I mulliganed both games and drew a lot of land.
Anyone thought of Griselbrand?? I use him in my more-so black control deck. He is amazing drawpower and if you even get to connect with him once it changes the game by 14 life. Also, he is a good card to plus one Liliana of the Veil to if you are running Unburial Rites.
Crypt Ghast is ramp. I also wouldn't run it, too vulnerable and doesn't do a lot even if it does stick.
If you're running the Unburial Rites package, a singleton Griselbrand seems fine. However, I think part of the reason the deck with the package (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/5088699) did well was that it didn't rely on it. Aurelia isn't unreasonable to cast on turn 6. Casting Griselbrand on turn 7 is fairly difficult. (Consistently hitting 7 lands is a lot more difficult than 6, which is more difficult than 5, etc.) I would probably run 26 land if I were to include Griselbrand.
imo, however, the Rites package is not necessary for this deck. It makes you unnecessarily vulnerable to GY hate. If you don't rely on it too much, however, you can just side all of the reanimator stuff out if you expect them to bring in any GY hate.
I am not looking to cast Griselbrand turn 7, I usually cast him turn 5 if Ghast sticks on 4. And the deck does not rely on Rites. It is a control Deck, not a creature deck. It relies on Lily and Rakdos's Return to keep their hand empty. Kill spells to keep their field empty, and Griselbrand/ Sign in blood to keep your hand stocked. Then with no one swinging at Lilly, ultimating her is easy and usually eats up half the manabase they accumulated thus far. But of course, they usually concede once they see where the game is going. Game two is even more fun because we have slaughter games to remove the win con or sphinx.
Like I said, I would prefer not to play Crypt Ghast because he's very vulnerable and as a 2/2 for 4 he doesn't even impact the board much when he does stick. I'd much rather have a 4 drop like Olivia or Sorin that immediately needs to be dealt with and can win all on its own. But if it works for you, good on it.
I will be updating the primer this weekend to go over packages and drop slots for various CMC cards. I also wanted to touch on Liliana, because depending on your list, she can be pretty important or completely irrelevant.
Before I post my list, let me express I am in a very heavy aggro meta, at a typical fnm we have 50+ players. Net decks abound as should be expected there is RWU flash, Naya Aggro/Humans, Gruul aggro, RDW, Esper Control, aristocrats, boros aggro. A rat deck (which was surprisingly effective against what it faced)
I went in with the game plan of attrition based strategy (plan is match card for card until I can drop something that changes the game in my favor)
I ran it last week and went 3-2
round 1 loss in 2 to gruul aggro it was a bad start to the night, got stuck on 3 land for 4 turns, but i survived that long on three land so yeah that's a thing
Round 2 loss in 3 to aristocrats (i hadn't read much on the deck and wasn't expecting it, as such I didn't know that it ran lingering souls and to board in my illness in the ranks) game 2 was pretty funny I turn 2 a blind obedience and turn 4 an alms beast and 5 a alms beast, killed his untapped dude hit for 6, turn 6 killed his 2 new untapped dudes sung for 12
Round 3 won against random esper color deck (guy was trying to extort off of cipher spells) in 2
Round 4 Won against Boros aggro in 3 (game 2 he got 4 boros charms and 2 skull cracks)
Round 5 Won against gruul aggro in 2 (I drew really well this game, and people apparently don't remember liliana of the dark realms can kill dudes either)
random points of suck threw-out the night, ran into several situations that I didn't have double black (with 16 black sources) (going to change out 2 of the plains for swamps). Rolling Temblor I almost always wished was a mutilate (because I always had 3 swamps when I saw it). Sorin never felt relevant most of the time another play was more relevant (killing more guys playing a creature) will likely become gift of the orzohova. Victim of night is amazing right now, I never felt bad for seeing it, 2 of the dreadbores will become victim of nights. Alms beast is actually really amazing he puts on enough of a clock that they can't really do anything about it, however do to my build I am considering replacing him and one of ghost dad with wight of precinct six. Olivia has the power with blind obedience to just shut down rdw/gruul aggro they are now running far to few burn as removal and if they don't have it when she drops they loose pretty hard.
with all the aggro, I have been considering getting some ultimate prices into the deck as well (to answer more hellriders as they tend to hurt), I have also been considering more one cost removal (mugging(because it activates tragic slip when pillar of flame does not), deaths approach, and possibly more dead weight (which it is funny to see peoples reaction playing that on a reckoner and making it mostly useless)
Like I said, I would prefer not to play Crypt Ghast because he's very vulnerable and as a 2/2 for 4 he doesn't even impact the board much when he does stick. I'd much rather have a 4 drop like Olivia or Sorin that immediately needs to be dealt with and can win all on its own. But if it works for you, good on it.
well, hes not really supposed to win the game by himself. i guess against control he can add a clock to them, but against aggro he theoretically should shine. if they use removal against him, thats good for you because its either less damage to your face (searing spear), or less removal spells they would otherwise spend on your creatures that ARE trying to win the game, or help you stabilize.
his 2 manacost is also not un-relevant because a lot of the decks in standard have huge stupid fast starts, and putting a roadblock in front of them, especially one that will never die to creature damage should be very good.
i just wish he didnt exile cards, and instead put them in the bin so you could use lingering souls and stuff with him for extra synergy
I still feel like Gideon is a far better 4 drop than Olivia out of my testing today. I needed to find room for her today to test and Gideon was what I dropped for her and man I find her remarkably underwhelming in comparison
I still feel like Gideon is a far better 4 drop than Olivia out of my testing today. I needed to find room for her today to test and Gideon was what I dropped for her and man I find her remarkably underwhelming in comparison
But Olivia actually does something... Gideon is sometimes a big, easily chump blocked attacker.
well, hes not really supposed to win the game by himself. i guess against control he can add a clock to them, but against aggro he theoretically should shine. if they use removal against him, thats good for you because its either less damage to your face (searing spear), or less removal spells they would otherwise spend on your creatures that ARE trying to win the game, or help you stabilize.
his 2 manacost is also not un-relevant because a lot of the decks in standard have huge stupid fast starts, and putting a roadblock in front of them, especially one that will never die to creature damage should be very good.
i just wish he didnt exile cards, and instead put them in the bin so you could use lingering souls and stuff with him for extra synergy
i believe you are confusing creatures i think you are looking for gloom surgeon
Gideon closes roughly 70% of my games... Olivia has just doubled up as removal and waits for a hellkite or Obzedat to close the game.
Then you are not using her right, she grows whenever she pings a creature, so end of your opponents turn you ping a lot of things she typically becomes greater than a 6/6 you then untap and ping some more before you swing if you want to
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T1 Arbor elf
T2 Flinthoof boar as a 3/3 with haste
T3 Huntmaster of the Fells
T4 Hellrider
T5 Clan Defiance ftw.
Was 1-2 that round to hands like that... Even Boros Reckoner and Rolling Temblor were not going to save me.
Some notes:
Dreadbore was the worst card in the deck. Charm cost life, but the instant speed is far more valuable I noticed. dreadbore being a 2CC sorcery is just terrible. I would have rather had Pillar of Flame.
Games were primarily won off the back of Gideon. Rolling Temblor, Boros Reckoner, Lingering Souls, Liliana are all solid moves into t4 Gideon and he was a complete house in the deck all night. I won a couple games with Obzedat and 2 with my single Auriela and one or two with Thundermaw Hellkite, but Gideon was my strongest and most consistent win condition.
Rakdos Return was used in place of Purge the Profane, and while it scales, there were many times I had it in my hand and the two life and discard would have just **** them out, but alas, Return was still a solid card by the end of the night. Probably coming out of my list which I will post in a bit. Purge the profane is out as well, I feel I want the discard slots but not sure what spell I really want to achieve it.
Boros Reckoner and Rolling Temblor is sickening good against midrange and sometimes even control G1. But sweeping out Thragtusks and other ground pounders that survive a Temblor is handy as can be.
I will post my list in a bit. It took me a while to get it to where I felt I could take it to my local shop because I never know what to expect from everyone there, it can be drastically different from week to week. But I am glad I had a chance to get an FNM in with it to give me a bit more insight with people outside of my play group and their decks.
Here's my current iteration:
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Olivia Voldaren
3 Obzedat, Ghost Council
Spells
2 Pillar of Flame
3 Dreadbore
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Searing Spear
4 Lingering Souls
2 Terminus
2 Rakdos's Return
2 Prophetic Prism
1 Blind Obedience
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Oblivion Ring
Land
4 Godless Shrine
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Clifftop Retreat
3 Plains
2 Mountain
After running this deck through a varied event, Gideon just crushes midrange strategies as well as control strategies and is strong as a finisher over TMH.
whats TMH?
Thundermaw Hellkite.
4 Gloom Surgeon
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Olivia Voldaren
3 Obzedat, Ghost Council
Spells - 16
2 Dreadbore
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Orzhov Charm
3 Searing Spear
4 Lingering Souls
2 Rakdos's Return
1 Blasphemous Act
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Oblivion Ring
Land - 26
4 Godless Shrine
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Blood Crypt
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Clifftop Retreat
3 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Duress
3 Slaughter Games
3 Pillar of Flame
2 Rest in Peace
2 Rolling Tremblor
1 Assemble the Legion
4 Gloom Surgeon
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Olivia Voldaren
3 Obzedat, Ghost Council
Spells - 18
2 Tragic Slip
2 Dreadbore
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Orzhov Charm
3 Searing Spear
4 Lingering Souls
2 Rakdos's Return
1 Blasphemous Act
2 Oblivion Ring
Land - 26
4 Godless Shrine
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Blood Crypt
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Clifftop Retreat
3 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Duress
3 Slaughter Games
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Rest in Peace
3 Rolling Tremblor
1 Assemble the Legion
There are no Liliana's simply because I don't have them. I would like to be playing them but she's a little ridiculous to get ahold of at the moment (~45 tix and rising). The deck functions just fine without her, though.
Matches:
R1: Naya Midrange, 0-2
It may have just been bad draws, but I have a feeling this is a terrible matchup. Everything that they play things I hate playing against. Loxodon Smiter laughs at Reckoner, Thragtusk provides ridiculous advantage, Resto Angel negates your removal. This is not what the deck is designed to play against, and it shows.
R2: WB Aggro/Midrange, 2-0
This is more like it. I have plenty of removal to deal with their early 2 power threats, as well as Gloom Surgeon to keep them off of attacking at all. This deck also folds to Boros Reckoner. Imo a good matchup.
R3: Human Reanimator, 2-1
I lost game 1 to the combo with a hand full of sorcery speed removal. Felt bad, but post board the matchup improves significantly. Between Slaughter Games and Rest in Peace, they'll have a hard time getting much done. Their beatdown plan B is fairly weak and easy to handle.
R4: Golgari Aggro, 2-1
Plenty of removal for early threats. Strangeroot Geist is midly annoying, and Predator Ooze can get out of hand fairly fast, especially with a Rancor on it. (My Game 2 loss) However, they don't have an answer to Obzedat, and Olivia can take out their whole board. Reckoner is a big problem for them, and Gloom Surgeon does a lot of work as well. Overall a good matchup so long as you have a way of getting rid of Predator Ooze. (Oring, Tragic Slip, Liliana)
developing competitive is a place where you can devolop your list / idea to a competitive one.
Nope, not all competitive players are spike. And also, there exist spikes that are brainless, they only netdeck at any deck winning the tournament and copy the playstyle.
However, every competitive deck you netdeck, are once brewed like this, with trial end error.
I believe that humananimator and omnidoor thragfire are more johnny style deck, but they can break into competitive zone. And still, before they become competitive, you are the kind of person that will insult that deck.
I don't say that I'm sure this deck can break competitive zone, I'm also still curious right now.
But at least, an out of the box brew like this, always have potential. Because no one pay attention at this wedge potential.
My 180 Modern Bordered Only Cube
You seem to be implying that copying a winning list from a tournament is bad.
I didn't say it's bad. What I said was netdecking does not require any thinking in constructing a deck.
But I do hate exact copying and looking at someone just copying 100% from a winning list.
My 180 Modern Bordered Only Cube
I didn't get an opportunity to play against it in the practice rooms so this was my first time playing the matchup. It may just been my draws, then. I didn't write anything down but iirc I mulliganed both games and drew a lot of land.
IMO, better than Thragtusk.
Also, you don't need ramp to run Rakdos's Return, Crypt Ghast works pretty well for that.
If you're running the Unburial Rites package, a singleton Griselbrand seems fine. However, I think part of the reason the deck with the package (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/5088699) did well was that it didn't rely on it. Aurelia isn't unreasonable to cast on turn 6. Casting Griselbrand on turn 7 is fairly difficult. (Consistently hitting 7 lands is a lot more difficult than 6, which is more difficult than 5, etc.) I would probably run 26 land if I were to include Griselbrand.
imo, however, the Rites package is not necessary for this deck. It makes you unnecessarily vulnerable to GY hate. If you don't rely on it too much, however, you can just side all of the reanimator stuff out if you expect them to bring in any GY hate.
I went in with the game plan of attrition based strategy (plan is match card for card until I can drop something that changes the game in my favor)
I ran it last week and went 3-2
round 1 loss in 2 to gruul aggro it was a bad start to the night, got stuck on 3 land for 4 turns, but i survived that long on three land so yeah that's a thing
Round 2 loss in 3 to aristocrats (i hadn't read much on the deck and wasn't expecting it, as such I didn't know that it ran lingering souls and to board in my illness in the ranks) game 2 was pretty funny I turn 2 a blind obedience and turn 4 an alms beast and 5 a alms beast, killed his untapped dude hit for 6, turn 6 killed his 2 new untapped dudes sung for 12
Round 3 won against random esper color deck (guy was trying to extort off of cipher spells) in 2
Round 4 Won against Boros aggro in 3 (game 2 he got 4 boros charms and 2 skull cracks)
Round 5 Won against gruul aggro in 2 (I drew really well this game, and people apparently don't remember liliana of the dark realms can kill dudes either)
4 tragic slip
2 dead weight
4 Dreadbore
2 Victim of Night
2 Devour Flesh
2 Tribute to Hunger
2 Mizzium Morters
2 Rolling Temblor
The buy an extra turn card
3 Blind obedience
3 Sorin, lord of Innistrad
2 Liliana of the dark realms
card draw
2 Underworld Connections
Creatures:
2 Alms Beast
3 Obzedat, Ghost Council
3 Olivia voldaren
Land:
4 godless shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Blood Crypt
4 Dragonskull summit
3 plains
3 mountain
3 Elixir of immortality
3 Merciless Eviction
3 Illness in the Ranks
1 Gideon, Champion of Justice
2 Rolling Temblor
random points of suck threw-out the night, ran into several situations that I didn't have double black (with 16 black sources) (going to change out 2 of the plains for swamps). Rolling Temblor I almost always wished was a mutilate (because I always had 3 swamps when I saw it). Sorin never felt relevant most of the time another play was more relevant (killing more guys playing a creature) will likely become gift of the orzohova. Victim of night is amazing right now, I never felt bad for seeing it, 2 of the dreadbores will become victim of nights. Alms beast is actually really amazing he puts on enough of a clock that they can't really do anything about it, however do to my build I am considering replacing him and one of ghost dad with wight of precinct six. Olivia has the power with blind obedience to just shut down rdw/gruul aggro they are now running far to few burn as removal and if they don't have it when she drops they loose pretty hard.
with all the aggro, I have been considering getting some ultimate prices into the deck as well (to answer more hellriders as they tend to hurt), I have also been considering more one cost removal (mugging(because it activates tragic slip when pillar of flame does not), deaths approach, and possibly more dead weight (which it is funny to see peoples reaction playing that on a reckoner and making it mostly useless)
well, hes not really supposed to win the game by himself. i guess against control he can add a clock to them, but against aggro he theoretically should shine. if they use removal against him, thats good for you because its either less damage to your face (searing spear), or less removal spells they would otherwise spend on your creatures that ARE trying to win the game, or help you stabilize.
his 2 manacost is also not un-relevant because a lot of the decks in standard have huge stupid fast starts, and putting a roadblock in front of them, especially one that will never die to creature damage should be very good.
i just wish he didnt exile cards, and instead put them in the bin so you could use lingering souls and stuff with him for extra synergy
But Olivia actually does something... Gideon is sometimes a big, easily chump blocked attacker.
i believe you are confusing creatures i think you are looking for gloom surgeon
Gideon closes roughly 70% of my games... Olivia has just doubled up as removal and waits for a hellkite or Obzedat to close the game.
Then you are not using her right, she grows whenever she pings a creature, so end of your opponents turn you ping a lot of things she typically becomes greater than a 6/6 you then untap and ping some more before you swing if you want to