Tone down the spike there champ. I remember people saying some similar things when I started pushing Izzet Staticaster for UWR Midrange.
A) you shouldn't reference things that are VERY off topic.
B) You advocated cutting GoST for static caster which is still considered a horrible idea, you yourself eventually conceded to this.
C) you said that your deck doesn't need lifegain to stabalize (which it does, this is an aggressive Meta in case you didn't get the memo) but then you talk about purge being better than return because it gains you 2 life? #wut
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When does lightning bolt kill Emrakul? When your opponent's at three.
I see that BWR gives a good combination of spot removals and card advantage cards, however during your testings haven't you felt the need for raw CA in the form of card draw? Most notably Sphinx's Revelation, that scales, draws and gains life.
I know that with Revelation the deck would become Esper or Bant control, which are completely different archetypes, but it's hard to imagine a control deck that relies solely on its draw of the turn to find answers.
Planeswalkers are great tools at stalling, providing nice virtual and raw CA. However, specifically in those colors they don't help you dig for an specific answer. If you need a Dreadbore this turn, you can't Jace mini-FOF dig for it.
I could be saying a complete BS here, BWR could do just fine without card draw, it's just that it's a bit awkward to see a control deck without card draw.
A) you shouldn't reference things that are VERY off topic.
B) You advocated cutting GoST for static caster which is still considered a horrible idea, you yourself eventually conceded to this.
C) you said that your deck doesn't need lifegain to stabalize (which it does, this is an aggressive Meta in case you didn't get the memo) but then you talk about purge being better than return because it gains you 2 life? #wut
I began advocating for Izzet Staticaster long before I also advocated cutting GoST for Staticaster in a more UWR Flash Direction. While I stayed with the midrange, I still stand by that adjustment in a UWR Flash deck.
Dega is the WBR shard name from Apocalypse which focused on all the enemy-coloured shards (see: Dega Sanctuary, Degavolver). I think the shard has quite some potential, I tried building something closer to MBC:
SNIP
I loved the Volvers back then I am glad someone else remembers them.
Keyrunes were something I have yet to try, mainly because I have my 3 drops where I feel I want either one effect or another and I clogged them up to help me lead into ideal 4 drop situations. I also have been wanting more Obzedat, he is really good and I want to see him more.
High Priest of Penance is interesting. I was waiting to find 2 more open slots so I could drop Orzhov Charm and fit in 4 Priests to see how they fare, but have not gotten to it just yet. I also like your addition of Bloodhall. Thanks for sharing the list
I see that BWR gives a good combination of spot removals and card advantage cards, however during your testings haven't you felt the need for raw CA in the form of card draw? Most notably Sphinx's Revelation, that scales, draws and gains life.
I know that with Revelation the deck would become Esper or Bant control, which are completely different archetypes, but it's hard to imagine a control deck that relies solely on its draw of the turn to find answers.
Planeswalkers are great tools at stalling, providing nice virtual and raw CA. However, specifically in those colors they don't help you dig for an specific answer. If you need a Dreadbore this turn, you can't Jace mini-FOF dig for it.
I could be saying a complete BS here, BWR could do just fine without card draw, it's just that it's a bit awkward to see a control deck without card draw.
Raw card advantage is really strong right now, and I have honestly just attributed it to the fact that 2 for 1's are few and far between in this meta game, so the fact that you can actually pull out extra cards goes a very long way. Because I do not have blue, I try to mitigate this by trying to utilize what 2 for 1 options are available with this color wedge. Sign in Blood was mentioned as well as considered, but I have not tested with it yet. I wanted to see if the deck could afford the 2 life, and the simple fact that I can use multiple Underworld Connections over and over in some games lets me know that Sign in Blood is most certainly going to be the route for card draw.
It is awkward not seeing card draw in control lists, but not entirely unheard of not is it that insane to not include it. Really if you can incrementally grind your opponent out of resources it is inadvertently the same fundamental concept.
I keep hearing that and I honestly have not tested her. Obzedat and Thundermaw are my primary beaters of choice because they have high damage output for less mana investment. I will be finding some time to tester her out though.
I am also going to be trying to find time to nab testing videos and get them formatted to post in the OP this weekend. Work has been a little crazy the last couple days.
For draw, what about staff of nin or blood gift demon?
I'm a fan of underworld connections, just not all the time if I want to tap out... I can't draw.
i can see how ur deck is control but it also seems midrange...you could sway more mid & add Gisela, Blade of Goldnight slow yes but 1-2 rites & itll work
For draw, what about staff of nin or blood gift demon?
I'm a fan of underworld connections, just not all the time if I want to tap out... I can't draw.
this is the route im going to try.Im a big fan of Staff of Nin, and Bloodgift Demon isn't to bad with ways to recur him.
i don't see any reason not to play some of the power cards in b/w/r like Rakdos's Return, Unburial Rites, and Angel of Serenity. i would love to fit Dreadbore in here somewhere, but don't want to take a huge amount of damage from my lands. Also might get in the way of running mutilate.
Im a little confused as to why you don't just run 2 Rakdos's Return in the MD over purge. For 4 mana you are essentially doing exactly the same thing, return just deals 2 damage instead of gains 2 life, and it has far more versatility...
This is my take on the deck. I went more in on the tokens, but make no mistake, its still very controlling. Game
plan is keep the board clear with early removal, sweepers, and token blockers until you can lock up the game with some combination of Intangible Virtue/Sorin Emblems and Assemble the Legion, or run away with the game with Obzedat. Sometimes you just hit the perfect curve of T2 Virtue, T3 Souls/Haunting, T4 Sorin. Its so hard to lose off of that play. Aurelia's Fury started off as a 3 of, but it has just been so underwhelming. The singleton is really only there for the long game when you need those last few points or need to take out an opponents top decked bomb. I could definitely see running Devil's play over it. This list has been tested, in probably over 50-60ish games on cockatrice and tuned to that meta.
So I recently received a PM from another member here on the forums about the deck and it lead to a bit more explanation on the core of the deck and what we discovered/learned from our testing. I have snipped the users name because it is not really relevant and I want to ensure that their name was not shared unless they were okay with it. but here are some questions and comments this member made and my response to help clear up some card choices for not only him but also those who read this thread, which is why I am posting this.
Feel free to take it with a grain of salt, but it goes over some of the cards and why they are important to giving the deck what it wants and how they do it.
Quote from *Snip* »
Have you tested using a higher number of token generators, in conjunction with altar's reap, sign in blood, cremate, and staff of nin? Also, I'd probably run underworld connections as a 3-of, but then I'm a huge fan of the card.
We had a hayday with aggro on Friday in testing. 5 rounds of Boros Aggro pretty uniform to the SCG list, and a Dega mirror match. ultimately going 4-1 in swiss and losing in the semi finals. We came to a few conclusions...
Setting up turn 4 is vital. You either need a soft sweep or bodies to throw in front of Gideon via Lingering souls. The most powerful thing this deck can do is drop a protected Gideon or sweep an opponent into a Purge the profane. So how much a card cost is very relevant. While more tokens would be ideal, the converted mana cost of that token generator needs to be 3, any less and you are being provoked into playing tokens when you shouldn't and any more you are going to be playing tokens when you could just do something better.
The draw was another factor. We tried cards like Sign in blood and extra Underworld Connections, but the third UC conflicted with what we needed to be doing turn 3 and Sign in blood did not let us filter for cheap and often times the loss of 2 extra life became an issue. Looting would let us dig for 1 and filter excess lands and it also made sure we got to 4 lands without losing too much value since there are often times you can have 3 mana, stuck on 3 and loot your way into the land and a Lingering souls to pitch so you are still making that valuable turn 3 play. Ultimately we kept it with Faithless looting and Underworld Connections and we felt the counts were right on the money. Cards like Altar's Reap require a valuable sacrifice which we don't need to be doing and sometimes cannot even do. Staff of Nin was just too slow. We originally had 2 in when testing and it was great to see, but we always needed to play it earlier than we could, which lead to it being cut.
Also, why no mutilate? I haven't had a chance to build a deck yet, as I'm caught between countries right now, but off the top of my head it would look something like this:
The numbers probably need to be tightened up, but with Orzhov charm and spark trooper you can combo to return it to your hand before you sac it, or, sac it in response with altar's reap to draw cards after gaining life. Maybe Sorin has a spot in here too as an additional token generator/lifegain engine. Destroy their stuff and chump block while you draw as hard as you can, into a lock with amass and descent, then gradually beat them down with amass the legion.
As I said, there are certain lines of play this deck needs to be playing in order to ensure it can take over a game and running out Spark Troopers and spending a charm on them is 6 mana and perhaps a little too cute. If you don't have the charm or you need to play trooper on turn 4, you are not gaining value out of your plays really and you are not setting up your board by doing so. That being said, this deck actually started out as a Descent deck with Legions in it
Mutilate is hard to cast and for 4 mana, Barter in Blood is going to let you remove big beaters in the Midrange match, where having all the swamps you need by turn 4 to kill a smiter and a resto is just not happening. Barter in Blood was much, much more efficient and we went with that. To top it off we have Merciless Eviction, so common and powerfull lines of play are as follows...
T3 Lingering Souls
T4 Gideon, CoJ
T5 FB Lingering Souls with removal backup or more souls
T6 Sweep
Now there are also other ways that can play out. Instead of Lingering Souls, you have Rolling Temblor which leads into a Gideon that becomes insanely hard to deal with if their board is empty because you can just start removing everything that hits there after.
Or Rolling Temblor against aggressive decks to sweep out 2-3 dudes then Purge your way into a cushion of 2 life and nuke 2 additional cards from their hand which puts them into a tight spot. Either they start to overextend into more removal and enter top deck mode, or they fall behind to something like Gideon, another Purge, Obzedat, Thundermaw etc.
There is also the common 3 mana, loot ditching souls casting souls to help ensure you saw draw on turn 3 as well as produced bodies to set up for your turn 4 and turn 5 which are the turns the game should be swung enough to just win through Gideon or Obzedat because once you roll either of them out, the game becomes a lot harder for Aggro players, Control players and Midrange players because Aggro cannot keep pushing sufficient damage through, Control struggles to remove your beaters and Midrange cannot keep threats on the board.
Also, I don't understand why you only have one angel of serenity, and some of your other card choices seem a bit unfocused. If you're notching up good results with the deck though, that's good to hear, and I'll be interested to see how it plays competitively. Feedback appreciated; if you're willing to give the list I posted a run, I'd be interested to hear how it goes.
Yeah she came out for Obzedat # 3 and we are working on fitting 2 Hellkites into the list as well.
Overall, the card choices may seem unfocused but we have been tuning the list and testing the list extensively. It is one of the decks we are looking to take to the Vegas open as well as some other events before Dragon's Maze. We feel the numbers might need some tweaking but the card selection is pretty spot on to combat a number of approaches any given deck might take.
Hope this helps explain some of the choices as well as why some of the cards are incredibly vital.
Some cards you could safely look at cutting are...
Liliana of the Veil. She is good, but not incredible. She shines against midrange really. Blue based control can also sometimes struggle with her out. 2 seems fine but even 1 would not be nuts.
Could cut a dreadbore for another Merciless Eviction
Orzhov Charm could be swapped with another 2 drop, not entirely sure what but that is an option. It is nice to have when you run into a tight spot and there is a critter that is blowing you out, outside of a hexproof dude.
Curse of Death's Hold is silly. Those need to come out. I feel I want 3 Slaughter games in the board. It helps protect you from so many things out there.
A 3rd Duress seems like it might help the control match a bit, which is where we are a little softer. We really just want to spend time tearing their hand apart.
I love the deck. I've been a fan of the SOM/INN Faithless Control list and I Love the colours. I'll put the deck together and play it at my LGS and see how it fairs here. And maybe bring it to a GP before Dragon's maze.
This is my take on the deck. I went more in on the tokens, but make no mistake, its still very controlling. Game
plan is keep the board clear with early removal, sweepers, and token blockers until you can lock up the game with some combination of Intangible Virtue/Sorin Emblems and Assemble the Legion, or run away with the game with Obzedat. Sometimes you just hit the perfect curve of T2 Virtue, T3 Souls/Haunting, T4 Sorin. Its so hard to lose off of that play. Aurelia's Fury started off as a 3 of, but it has just been so underwhelming. The singleton is really only there for the long game when you need those last few points or need to take out an opponents top decked bomb. I could definitely see running Devil's play over it. This list has been tested, in probably over 50-60ish games on cockatrice and tuned to that meta.
This deck got my attention. I think we need Token generators to stop faster aggro decks, and this one is running a good chunk of them. Assemble the Legion seems like a perfect fit for Dega Control.
I would love to get the cards and actually test this out officially.
In my opinion, I think Dega will be around for awhile, and I think this would be the time to invest into it.
I really have not enjoyed Rolling Temblor. Especially not main deck. 3-4 toughness is a real problem. Yes there is searing spear, that is spot removal. You need a legit catch all sweeper. I also made some adjustments to the list above this post.
-4 Rolling Temblor
-1 Assemble the Legion
-1 Increasing Ambition
-1 Intangible Virtue
Mizzium Mortars
Triple red can be tough, but the mana base can be adjusted to have more red mid game.
Blind Obedience
This card is can slows down aggro and comes out early enough fir extort to matter. Its like a pseudo obzedat effect.
Descent into Madness can win games once it starts making counters. This deck can out race your to feeding this card. Only one copy so it didn't cLog up your hands and draws to bad.
Mass Eviction is another main deck utility sweeper. I like this card as just a 1 of too.
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I like current block formats the most.
Its so limited to its power scale against other formats.
Block constructed should be a more competitive format like it was back in Champions or Ravnica.
Here is my 1st take on this deck . . . would love some critique and also help iffn this mana base should work or needs work. Just might try this next Friday. Thx.
I think this deck has a lot of potential if you change it to either a Midrange or (what i like to call a) Creature-Controlling deck, meaning its a control deck, but with more creatures than usual, who all have control-based effects. Red, Black, and White not only other amazing removal spells, but powerful creatures too. You should take advantage of this. For example, Rakdos's Return is an auto-include for a deck running these colors. Vampire Nighthawk stalls, gains you life, and can steal some damage. Perfect for a control deck. High Priest of Penance is not given enough credit, because he is basically a removal spell for 2 (which is already good) but he stalls and deters your opponent from attacking. Blind Obedience in the SB against aggro. Obzedat is another amazing inclusion. Aurelia is a good finisher/bomb. Things like that. Take out the repetitive and over-coasted board-wipe and discard, and try and add some creatures. Lean towards it being a Midrange deck essentially.
Sideboard is under construction, but it will pretty much include O-ring, Blind obedience and the like. Nighthawk is a champ and provides life as well as being an evasive beater and removal on a stick to Sigarda and GoST. I don't like Gideon, as he will ult in like, 1/50 of the games, and otherwise he's just a big dumb beater that dodges sorcery speed removal, and I prefer Obzedat for that. Thundermaw hellkite nails enemy planeswalkers, kills spirits and finishes through the air, and Bloodgift nets you draws while being a big flying beater too. The two Ghost Quarters disrupt Nephalia Drownyards and Moorland Haunts, as well as other utility lands, and Stensia Bloodhall is a good clock to finish off other control decks. Also we might like to test Boros Reckoner, as he dodges most removal, trades off with multiple dudes or a big one, fights Thragtusks, etc.
I have been thinking this deck over in my head for awhile. I don't have a set list in my head or haven't even thought of one. These suggestions maybe way off for the deck, but I thought I would suggest them:
Deathpact Angel: Mana cost may have a factor, but I guess it depends what else you are running in a Dega deck. Let's say you sweep the board with her out, maybe next turn you get her right back. She's a decent beater plus she has flying which is always a plus. Graveyard hate could be a problem.
Rakdos's Return: Honestly, I think it should be included, maybe as a one-of or 2-of??
Entreat the Angels: Once again, maybe a one-of or two-of. Mana may play an issue again if you want to run the two cards that I mentioned above.
Sorry if these seem far fetch suggestions, but I just wanted to know what people think.
I have been thinking this deck over in my head for awhile. I don't have a set list in my head or haven't even thought of one. These suggestions maybe way off for the deck, but I thought I would suggest them:
Deathpact Angel: Mana cost may have a factor, but I guess it depends what else you are running in a Dega deck. Let's say you sweep the board with her out, maybe next turn you get her right back. She's a decent beater plus she has flying which is always a plus. Graveyard hate could be a problem.
Rakdos's Return: Honestly, I think it should be included, maybe as a one-of or 2-of??
Entreat the Angels: Once again, maybe a one-of or two-of. Mana may play an issue again if you want to run the two cards that I mentioned above.
Sorry if these seem far fetch suggestions, but I just wanted to know what people think.
the only problem i see with deathpact angel is that she is clunky, and thats a lot fighting against her. obzedat seems strictly better, IMO, since he has an immediate drain 2 when you play him.
the only problem i see with deathpact angel is that she is clunky, and thats a lot fighting against her. obzedat seems strictly better, IMO, since he has an immediate drain 2 when you play him.
im actually surprised that more list don't have Angel of Serenity. I would play her before i ever thought of playing Deathpact Angel.
It doesn't look terribly competetive I know, but I have played it for the past 3 weeks and players online and in FNM's have had a really hard time trying to stop the early advantage. Other than the fact that it kinda lags a bit around turns 3-4 (thinking of putting keyrune in at 3) it is usually consistant and pressures the opponent enough that we can win with our board position. The Vexing devils and charms allow a player to deal aggresive damage against control and slower midrange decks without needing the 30 creature shell, while adding removal and resilency which is needed in these colors. And the added lifegain plus blockers and removal allows us to stall against aggro until our bigger creatures stabilize and out race them.
I've been wanting to play Trading Post ever since Prophetic Prism was announced. This is just a untested rough draft, so I don't know if this works at all or not
courtisans! compatriots! lend me your ears, we slayed this demagogue, dragged it to its knees. we cut all the sycophants, deafened their call, we gave back the willing to better us all. we will not go quiet, we will not be restrained, we will not be slaves to an impotent regime. mark this in remembrance, the turning of tides. our nascent republic, born of his demise.
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A) you shouldn't reference things that are VERY off topic.
B) You advocated cutting GoST for static caster which is still considered a horrible idea, you yourself eventually conceded to this.
C) you said that your deck doesn't need lifegain to stabalize (which it does, this is an aggressive Meta in case you didn't get the memo) but then you talk about purge being better than return because it gains you 2 life? #wut
I know that with Revelation the deck would become Esper or Bant control, which are completely different archetypes, but it's hard to imagine a control deck that relies solely on its draw of the turn to find answers.
Planeswalkers are great tools at stalling, providing nice virtual and raw CA. However, specifically in those colors they don't help you dig for an specific answer. If you need a Dreadbore this turn, you can't Jace mini-FOF dig for it.
I could be saying a complete BS here, BWR could do just fine without card draw, it's just that it's a bit awkward to see a control deck without card draw.
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I began advocating for Izzet Staticaster long before I also advocated cutting GoST for Staticaster in a more UWR Flash Direction. While I stayed with the midrange, I still stand by that adjustment in a UWR Flash deck.
That is all besides the point.
I loved the Volvers back then I am glad someone else remembers them.
Keyrunes were something I have yet to try, mainly because I have my 3 drops where I feel I want either one effect or another and I clogged them up to help me lead into ideal 4 drop situations. I also have been wanting more Obzedat, he is really good and I want to see him more.
High Priest of Penance is interesting. I was waiting to find 2 more open slots so I could drop Orzhov Charm and fit in 4 Priests to see how they fare, but have not gotten to it just yet. I also like your addition of Bloodhall. Thanks for sharing the list
Raw card advantage is really strong right now, and I have honestly just attributed it to the fact that 2 for 1's are few and far between in this meta game, so the fact that you can actually pull out extra cards goes a very long way. Because I do not have blue, I try to mitigate this by trying to utilize what 2 for 1 options are available with this color wedge. Sign in Blood was mentioned as well as considered, but I have not tested with it yet. I wanted to see if the deck could afford the 2 life, and the simple fact that I can use multiple Underworld Connections over and over in some games lets me know that Sign in Blood is most certainly going to be the route for card draw.
It is awkward not seeing card draw in control lists, but not entirely unheard of not is it that insane to not include it. Really if you can incrementally grind your opponent out of resources it is inadvertently the same fundamental concept.
I keep hearing that and I honestly have not tested her. Obzedat and Thundermaw are my primary beaters of choice because they have high damage output for less mana investment. I will be finding some time to tester her out though.
I am also going to be trying to find time to nab testing videos and get them formatted to post in the OP this weekend. Work has been a little crazy the last couple days.
I'm a fan of underworld connections, just not all the time if I want to tap out... I can't draw.
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this is the route im going to try.Im a big fan of Staff of Nin, and Bloodgift Demon isn't to bad with ways to recur him.
4x Devour Flesh
4x Orzhov Charm
4x Mutilate
2x Rakdos's Return
2x Unburial Rites
2x Staff of Nin
1x Gideon, Champion of Justice
4x Vampire Nighthawk
2x Obzedat, Ghost Council
2x Angel of Serenity
1x Bloodgift Demon
4 Godless Shrine
4 Blood Crypt
4 Isolated Chapel
3 Dragonskull Summit
2 Sacred Foundry
i don't see any reason not to play some of the power cards in b/w/r like Rakdos's Return, Unburial Rites, and Angel of Serenity. i would love to fit Dreadbore in here somewhere, but don't want to take a huge amount of damage from my lands. Also might get in the way of running mutilate.
EDIT: Nvm, someone already beat me to it
plan is keep the board clear with early removal, sweepers, and token blockers until you can lock up the game with some combination of Intangible Virtue/Sorin Emblems and Assemble the Legion, or run away with the game with Obzedat. Sometimes you just hit the perfect curve of T2 Virtue, T3 Souls/Haunting, T4 Sorin. Its so hard to lose off of that play. Aurelia's Fury started off as a 3 of, but it has just been so underwhelming. The singleton is really only there for the long game when you need those last few points or need to take out an opponents top decked bomb. I could definitely see running Devil's play over it. This list has been tested, in probably over 50-60ish games on cockatrice and tuned to that meta.
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
Planeswalkers
3 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
Instants/Sorceries
4 Lingering Souls
4 Midnight Haunting
4 Searing Spear
1 Increasing Devotion
2 Devour Flesh
2 Tragic Slip
4 Rolling Temblor
1 Aurelia's Fury
3 Assemble the Legion
4 Intangible Virtue
Land
2 Vault of the Archangel
4 Blood Crypt
4 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
2 Clifftop Retreat
2 Sundering Growth
2 Rest in Peace
1 Rakdos's Return
3 Slaughter Games
1 Pithing Needle
1 Flames of the Firebrand
2 Pillar of Flame
3 Vampire Nighthawk
Sig banner courtesy of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
Feel free to take it with a grain of salt, but it goes over some of the cards and why they are important to giving the deck what it wants and how they do it.
We had a hayday with aggro on Friday in testing. 5 rounds of Boros Aggro pretty uniform to the SCG list, and a Dega mirror match. ultimately going 4-1 in swiss and losing in the semi finals. We came to a few conclusions...
Setting up turn 4 is vital. You either need a soft sweep or bodies to throw in front of Gideon via Lingering souls. The most powerful thing this deck can do is drop a protected Gideon or sweep an opponent into a Purge the profane. So how much a card cost is very relevant. While more tokens would be ideal, the converted mana cost of that token generator needs to be 3, any less and you are being provoked into playing tokens when you shouldn't and any more you are going to be playing tokens when you could just do something better.
The draw was another factor. We tried cards like Sign in blood and extra Underworld Connections, but the third UC conflicted with what we needed to be doing turn 3 and Sign in blood did not let us filter for cheap and often times the loss of 2 extra life became an issue. Looting would let us dig for 1 and filter excess lands and it also made sure we got to 4 lands without losing too much value since there are often times you can have 3 mana, stuck on 3 and loot your way into the land and a Lingering souls to pitch so you are still making that valuable turn 3 play. Ultimately we kept it with Faithless looting and Underworld Connections and we felt the counts were right on the money. Cards like Altar's Reap require a valuable sacrifice which we don't need to be doing and sometimes cannot even do. Staff of Nin was just too slow. We originally had 2 in when testing and it was great to see, but we always needed to play it earlier than we could, which lead to it being cut.
As I said, there are certain lines of play this deck needs to be playing in order to ensure it can take over a game and running out Spark Troopers and spending a charm on them is 6 mana and perhaps a little too cute. If you don't have the charm or you need to play trooper on turn 4, you are not gaining value out of your plays really and you are not setting up your board by doing so. That being said, this deck actually started out as a Descent deck with Legions in it
Mutilate is hard to cast and for 4 mana, Barter in Blood is going to let you remove big beaters in the Midrange match, where having all the swamps you need by turn 4 to kill a smiter and a resto is just not happening. Barter in Blood was much, much more efficient and we went with that. To top it off we have Merciless Eviction, so common and powerfull lines of play are as follows...
T3 Lingering Souls
T4 Gideon, CoJ
T5 FB Lingering Souls with removal backup or more souls
T6 Sweep
Now there are also other ways that can play out. Instead of Lingering Souls, you have Rolling Temblor which leads into a Gideon that becomes insanely hard to deal with if their board is empty because you can just start removing everything that hits there after.
Or Rolling Temblor against aggressive decks to sweep out 2-3 dudes then Purge your way into a cushion of 2 life and nuke 2 additional cards from their hand which puts them into a tight spot. Either they start to overextend into more removal and enter top deck mode, or they fall behind to something like Gideon, another Purge, Obzedat, Thundermaw etc.
There is also the common 3 mana, loot ditching souls casting souls to help ensure you saw draw on turn 3 as well as produced bodies to set up for your turn 4 and turn 5 which are the turns the game should be swung enough to just win through Gideon or Obzedat because once you roll either of them out, the game becomes a lot harder for Aggro players, Control players and Midrange players because Aggro cannot keep pushing sufficient damage through, Control struggles to remove your beaters and Midrange cannot keep threats on the board.
Yeah she came out for Obzedat # 3 and we are working on fitting 2 Hellkites into the list as well.
Overall, the card choices may seem unfocused but we have been tuning the list and testing the list extensively. It is one of the decks we are looking to take to the Vegas open as well as some other events before Dragon's Maze. We feel the numbers might need some tweaking but the card selection is pretty spot on to combat a number of approaches any given deck might take.
Hope this helps explain some of the choices as well as why some of the cards are incredibly vital.
Some cards you could safely look at cutting are...
Liliana of the Veil. She is good, but not incredible. She shines against midrange really. Blue based control can also sometimes struggle with her out. 2 seems fine but even 1 would not be nuts.
Could cut a dreadbore for another Merciless Eviction
Orzhov Charm could be swapped with another 2 drop, not entirely sure what but that is an option. It is nice to have when you run into a tight spot and there is a critter that is blowing you out, outside of a hexproof dude.
Curse of Death's Hold is silly. Those need to come out. I feel I want 3 Slaughter games in the board. It helps protect you from so many things out there.
A 3rd Duress seems like it might help the control match a bit, which is where we are a little softer. We really just want to spend time tearing their hand apart.
WBRDega MidrangeRBW
This deck got my attention. I think we need Token generators to stop faster aggro decks, and this one is running a good chunk of them. Assemble the Legion seems like a perfect fit for Dega Control.
I would love to get the cards and actually test this out officially.
In my opinion, I think Dega will be around for awhile, and I think this would be the time to invest into it.
-4 Rolling Temblor
-1 Assemble the Legion
-1 Increasing Ambition
-1 Intangible Virtue
Mizzium Mortars
Triple red can be tough, but the mana base can be adjusted to have more red mid game.
Blind Obedience
This card is can slows down aggro and comes out early enough fir extort to matter. Its like a pseudo obzedat effect.
Descent into Madness can win games once it starts making counters. This deck can out race your to feeding this card. Only one copy so it didn't cLog up your hands and draws to bad.
Mass Eviction is another main deck utility sweeper. I like this card as just a 1 of too.
I like current block formats the most.
Its so limited to its power scale against other formats.
Block constructed should be a more competitive format like it was back in Champions or Ravnica.
Sig by DD Awie by CC
2 OBZEDAT, GHOST COUNCIL
ENCHANTMENTS (8)
4 INTANGIBLE VIRTUE
2 BLIND OBEDIENCE
2 ASSEMBLE THE LEGION
PLAINSWALKERS (3)
3 SORIN, LORD OF INNISTRAD
INSTANTS (12)
4 MIDNIGHT HAUNTING
2 ULTIMATE PRICE
2 TRAGIC SLIP
2 BOROS CHARM
2 AURELIA’S FURY
4 LINGERING SOULS
2 SEVER THE BLOODLINE
2 MIZZIUM MORTARS
1 INCREASING DEVOTION
BASIC LANDS (4)
4 PLAINS
LANDS (22)
4 SACRED FOUNDRY
4 GODLESS SHRINE
4 ISOLATED CHAPEL
4 CLIFFTOP RETREAT
4 BLOOD CRYPT
2 VAULT OF THE ARCHANGEL
2 VILE REBIRTH
2 SUNDERING GROWTH
2 SLAUGHTER GAMES
2 SIGN IN BLOOD
2 RAKDOS’S RETURN
2 PILLAR OF FLAME
1 PITHING NEEDLE
1 LILIANA OF THE VEIL
1 DREADBORE
WBRDega MidrangeRBW
With all the graveyard hate and the fact I have like 2 creatures it doesn't sound like it would work very well.
Let me know what you think of the suggestion.
My deviantART; if you're interested in alters, PM me!
It's the encahanted creature's owners graveyard not your own
WBRDega MidrangeRBW
3 Obzedat, Ghost Council
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
2 Bloodgift Demon
3 Vampire Nighthawk
Sorceries (15)
4 Lingering Souls
2 Dreadbore
3 Rolling Temblor
2 Barter in Blood
3 Pillar of Flame
1 Rakdos' Return
2 Underworld Connections
Instant (4)
2 Orzhov Charm
2 Aurelia's Fury
Planeswalker (4)
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
Lands (25)
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Stensia Bloodhall
2 Ghost Quarter
4 Blood Crypt
3 Godless Shrine
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Clifftop Retreat
2 Swamp
Sideboard is under construction, but it will pretty much include O-ring, Blind obedience and the like. Nighthawk is a champ and provides life as well as being an evasive beater and removal on a stick to Sigarda and GoST. I don't like Gideon, as he will ult in like, 1/50 of the games, and otherwise he's just a big dumb beater that dodges sorcery speed removal, and I prefer Obzedat for that. Thundermaw hellkite nails enemy planeswalkers, kills spirits and finishes through the air, and Bloodgift nets you draws while being a big flying beater too. The two Ghost Quarters disrupt Nephalia Drownyards and Moorland Haunts, as well as other utility lands, and Stensia Bloodhall is a good clock to finish off other control decks. Also we might like to test Boros Reckoner, as he dodges most removal, trades off with multiple dudes or a big one, fights Thragtusks, etc.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
here is the list that i've been tweaking:
4 High Priest of Pennance
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Firemane Angel
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
1 Falkenrath Aristocrat
Planeswalkers (4)
2 Gideon, Champion of Justice
2 Liliana of the Veil
Instants (5)
2 Tragic Slip
2 Boros Charm
1 Ultimate Price
Sorceries (9)
4 Lingering Souls
3 Dreadbore
2 Rolling Temblor
2 Underworld Connections
1 Blind Obedience
Lands (25)
2 Vault of the Archangel
4 Plains
1 Orzhov Guildgate
4 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Clifftop Retreat
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Blood Crypt
2 Blind Obedience
3 Duress
2 Rakdos's Return
1 Slaughter Games
2 Skullcrack
2 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Dreadbore
Deathpact Angel: Mana cost may have a factor, but I guess it depends what else you are running in a Dega deck. Let's say you sweep the board with her out, maybe next turn you get her right back. She's a decent beater plus she has flying which is always a plus. Graveyard hate could be a problem.
Rakdos's Return: Honestly, I think it should be included, maybe as a one-of or 2-of??
Entreat the Angels: Once again, maybe a one-of or two-of. Mana may play an issue again if you want to run the two cards that I mentioned above.
Sorry if these seem far fetch suggestions, but I just wanted to know what people think.
the only problem i see with deathpact angel is that she is clunky, and thats a lot fighting against her. obzedat seems strictly better, IMO, since he has an immediate drain 2 when you play him.
im actually surprised that more list don't have Angel of Serenity. I would play her before i ever thought of playing Deathpact Angel.
3 Cathedral Sanctifier
4 Hellrider
2 Restoration Angel
4 Thundermaw Hellkite
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
3 Orzhov Charm
3 Boros Charm
2 Bonfire of the Damned
3 Lingering Souls
3 Pillar of Flame
2 Oblivion Ring
4 Godless Shrine
4 Sacred Foundary
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Clifftop Retreat
1 Slayer's Stronghold
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Blind Obediance
3 Duress
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Slaughter Games
1 Cathedral Sanctifier
2 Rest in Peace
2 Sundering Growth
It doesn't look terribly competetive I know, but I have played it for the past 3 weeks and players online and in FNM's have had a really hard time trying to stop the early advantage. Other than the fact that it kinda lags a bit around turns 3-4 (thinking of putting keyrune in at 3) it is usually consistant and pressures the opponent enough that we can win with our board position. The Vexing devils and charms allow a player to deal aggresive damage against control and slower midrange decks without needing the 30 creature shell, while adding removal and resilency which is needed in these colors. And the added lifegain plus blockers and removal allows us to stall against aggro until our bigger creatures stabilize and out race them.
2 Boros Reckoner
3 High Priest of Penance
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
2 Treasury Thrull
4 Vampire Nighthawk
Artifacts
3 Prophetic Prism
3 Rakdos Keyrune
1 Staff of Nin
2 Trading Post
3 Blasphemous Act
2 Blind Obedience
2 Liliana of the Dark Realms
2 Rakdos's Return
2 Rolling Temblor
2 Boros Charm
2 Ultimate Price
Lands
4 Blood Crypt
4 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Dragonskull Summit
1 Slayers' Stronghold
1 Vault of the Archangel
3 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Mountain
W death + taxes W