What about taking this deck into more of an aggressive direction and including fencing ace? I mean sure he doesnt have hex proof but combined with rancor or spectral flight/ ajani hes practically a glistener elf.
14 hex proof creatures is way too many. Keep in mind I almost never want two on the board at the same time. At all times I want one on board and one hand. My recommendation would be try to pilot the deck differently.
14 hex proof creatures is way too many. Keep in mind I almost never want two on the board at the same time. At all times I want one on board and one hand. My recommendation would be try to pilot the deck differently.
I'm not envisioning my deck idea as single threat style deck. I'm approaching this as a couple creatures that can't be spot removed and abusing that with cheap enchantments to gain the upper hand in combat.
I'm not envisioning my deck idea as single threat style deck. I'm approaching this as a couple creatures that can't be spot removed and abusing that with cheap enchantments to gain the upper hand in combat.
that would be more of an aggro style then Hexblade like said above^ this kinda deck is made to play a single hexproof dude and beat face when they cannot remove it with spot removal the problem with playing multiple hexproof dudes is you are making their field whips that much better.
what do you guys think about this list not really sure if I like it yet but its fun
that would be more of an aggro style then Hexblade like said above^ this kinda deck is made to play a single hexproof dude and beat face when they cannot remove it with spot removal the problem with playing multiple hexproof dudes is you are making their field whips that much better.
what do you guys think about this list not really sure if I like it yet but its fun
What are you talking about? This thread is about Bant Colored Enchantment deck that are geared towards aggro to tempo game style. I proposed the hexproof in order to try and minimize the down side of getting X for 1'ed that can happen with enchantments. Also, you're deck list doesn't fit this idea at all. It's a Bant Midrange/Good **** deck.
I've been spitballing this for a couple of days. Started with bonerfleximus's page 3 deck. Here are some go-fishing notes
Hated Azorius Charm,
Cut a Feeling of Dread,
Loved Elvish Visionary,
Tried Fencing Ace but its only ok
Added some Negate.
I like this deck, and Bant is the bomb, but its not flowing like a winner yet. Looking forward to seeing it progress
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This is something i have been trying to make, havent really tested it out yet. I could use some comments and suggestions to help improve it... not sure about what to put in the sideboard and if the lands are efficient enough.
Here is the list I plan on FNMing with right now. Paladin gives them a target for all their spot removal, but functions a lot like Ajani as a "final lunge" card (plus 2x striking angel tokens). Everyone at my store has 4x Bonfires it seems, so Negates are a must. The charm is just for fun with and will likely get sided in favor of another Negate. I like the idea of Spectral Flight, but I severely doubt I can find a place for it in my 75. What this deck really needs is manlands, so maybe *sigh* keyrunes can find a place?
would probably be what I'd be tempted to roll. Main deal with ajani is he will almost always die immediately since you probably aren't blocking. I think azorius charm is super huge for the tempo aspect... time walk their creature or gain life, whatever is needed most. Worst case you just cycle it at the end of their turn.
What about taking this deck into more of an aggressive direction and including fencing ace? I mean sure he doesnt have hex proof but combined with rancor or spectral flight/ ajani hes practically a glistener elf.
One of the main points of the deck is to not give your opponent any way to profitably interact with your board.
I know Huntbeast is going to be called out but a 3/3 Hexproof at 4CMC isn't bad and it ups the total hexproof creature count to 12. I completely forgot about Ethereal Armor. I was planning on running at the least 4 Rancor and 4 Spectral Flight and Armor just makes them even more lethal. Armor also opens up cards like Abundant Growth which was boarder line playable as mana fixing and cantrip for 1CMC and Pacifism/Bonds of Faith as good early control along with Feeling of Dread.
Very quick draft to get the idea out there. I think Inaction Injunction and Spectral Flight need a place in the 75 but not sure where. This deck could also run a very nice transformational sideboard that moves it to a Bant Control style deck.
I don't like primal hunbtbeast at all, you don't need that many hexproof creatures you just need one at a time and the rest of your spells are to support him / stay alive while he does work. Putting more than one gives a control player the opportunity to 2/3 for one you with a board wipe. One of the main aspects of this deck is to not give your opponent any way to profitably interact with your board.
that would be more of an aggro style then Hexblade like said above^ this kinda deck is made to play a single hexproof dude and beat face when they cannot remove it with spot removal the problem with playing multiple hexproof dudes is you are making their field whips that much better.
what do you guys think about this list not really sure if I like it yet but its fun
You hit the nail on the head with your response, thanks =P
The deck looks solid, very similar to the tusk control lists that were being pre-rotation but heavier on the spells. It's a different deck altogether and I think there might already be a thread for bant tempo, but I'd say it's a solid list.
Just contemplating Angelic benediction in this deck. It would help get GoST in and make it a bigger threat at the same time.
Hah, I totally forgot about that enchantment. I feel like it would be much more playable at 3 mana but it definitely has potential. The problem with tapping a creature on the attack is that you're still vulnerable to crackback, which is why I prefer inaction injunction / feeling of dread to improve our survival options.
I've been spitballing this for a couple of days. Started with bonerfleximus's page 3 deck. Here are some go-fishing notes
Hated Azorius Charm,
Cut a Feeling of Dread,
Loved Elvish Visionary,
Tried Fencing Ace but its only ok
Added some Negate.
I like this deck, and Bant is the bomb, but its not flowing like a winner yet. Looking forward to seeing it progress
Have to say I agree with you, I took the deck to a different shop where everyone plays control decks and it was having some trouble against non-stop sweepers and counterspells. The meta there was literrally 90% control, and a few pro tour players frequent the shop so it was some great testing.
I think some of the suggestions earlier about adding resto angel and thragtusk might be worth looking into. The resto angels are great after a board wipe, drawing additional cards off visionary, or bouncing your geist after blocks are declared and are a solid evasive body.
The thragtusks are also highly resilient against wipes and are amazing stabilizers against agro.
This has actually been nagging at me for a while, but I wanted to stay true to the uniqueness of the deck. I might have to give up some of that uniqueness for the sake of winning.
The deck would play the same, but rather than using tempo cards for defense we would have additional creatures. i.e.Do not cast ethereal armor on your resto angel / thragtusk and make sure to keep card advantage in mind.
This is something i have been trying to make, havent really tested it out yet. I could use some comments and suggestions to help improve it... not sure about what to put in the sideboard and if the lands are efficient enough.
You have enchantments and hexproof creatures, supported by a lot of good cards. That said, I don't really see any synergies / justifications for the cards you're using.
The decklist thus far has been thoroughly tested with a lot of reasoning behind the changes I've made, I suggest you read through the thread or provide more explanations on why you use these cards over the ones I've suggested.
What i did here was to look for solid creatures to drop enchantments on:
nr1 = Geist
nr2 = Precinct (First Strike makes him work with Rancor very well) and because of this he can provide chumpers.
nr 3= Resto Angel (Flash is nice and has great utility
nr 4= Sigarda (duh)
Loxodon Smiter= 3 mana for this guy and he works sublime with all enchantments
Fencing Ace= From this topic. Did anyone try this guy out yet? I dont like him cause he kinda dies to a lot of removal.
What do you guys think?
It's not a bad deck but it deviates away from the core - giving your opponent very few ways to interact with your board profitably.
If you look at the SCG top 32 in cincinati, the top played removal spells were Pillar of Flame and Tragic slip. Fencing ace is not going to survive and you're going to lose an ethereal armor with that ace and possibly a rancor.
Precinct captain I don't see the point, this is not a white weenie deck, and has no anthems, no sublime archangel.
Not directed at you but to posters in general - I like that there's interest in this archetype but I've just read several posts in a row that show the thread hasn't been read in detail and that there's not a strong grasp on competitive magic. Also, please post justifications for the changes you're listing over the base list in page 1 or create your own thread if you just want a deck critique on something you have that happens to be similar.
I'm going to try and summarize the discussion points in an edit on page one later today to help people out.
Here is the list I plan on FNMing with right now. Paladin gives them a target for all their spot removal, but functions a lot like Ajani as a "final lunge" card (plus 2x striking angel tokens). Everyone at my store has 4x Bonfires it seems, so Negates are a must. The charm is just for fun with and will likely get sided in favor of another Negate. I like the idea of Spectral Flight, but I severely doubt I can find a place for it in my 75. What this deck really needs is manlands, so maybe *sigh* keyrunes can find a place?
would probably be what I'd be tempted to roll. Main deal with ajani is he will almost always die immediately since you probably aren't blocking. I think azorius charm is super huge for the tempo aspect... time walk their creature or gain life, whatever is needed most. Worst case you just cycle it at the end of their turn.
Ajani is always used as a finisher. Here's the math behind it - all the damage you have on your board is coming from a single creature. Imagine having a planeswalker that can give your entire board flying/doublestrike as a -3. That's basically what ajani does. You never use his +1 except in extrememy rare circumstances. Voltron up, hit them for 7 once, then finish them next turn.
Spectral flight is just a worse version of ethereal armor in this deck.
Azorius charm is playable depending on your meta, if it's agro heavy and you have a lot of racing then definitely run it.
Oblivion ring is there for my meta which runs a lot of detention spheres.
Bonerfleximus, I love your detailed responses. Keep it up.
Small misunderstanding. For the paladin, I meant one double-striking angel. You play him after Geist UNBONDED. Then when you swing with Geist, you bond with the new angel token. It double strikes and fades away. Now you have a newly unbounded paladin and they have 8 less life
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I think one of my favorite things about his deck is the draw power. Opening 7: 2 Growths, 3 land, visionary, rancor. Slam it, say thank you, and win that game.
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I will post my deck within the next day but let me just say this deck has amazing potential. I have already went 8-0 in tournments with this deck against a very competitive format. The key is we race tempo and aggro with massive sweepers with thragtusk being a hinderance. They key is never to overextend and run 4 nevermores in your sideboard. This enchantment wins games hard and I have won everymatch against control with it. I will post a detailed list , results and sb after my tourney tommorow. Cheers.
Bonerfleximus, I love your detailed responses. Keep it up.
Small misunderstanding. For the paladin, I meant one double-striking angel. You play him after Geist UNBONDED. Then when you swing with Geist, you bond with the new angel token. It double strikes and fades away. Now you have a newly unbounded paladin and they have 8 less life
Ahh, that makes more sense. That's something to keep in mind, I never thought of that interaction before.
I've Look at the thread, and i agree on the fact that your opponent must be kept for interacting with your board. Last night i did some extensive testing with the deck and i found several things. Whereas i like invisible stalker i dont think this guy is the real deal. He gets pumped to about 4 max himself. And with the big creatures swarming the board he aint gonna win the race.
However creatures like Geist of Saint Traft do win u the race. So besides him i tried several creatures. In my personal opinion vs aggro match ups (which there are a lot of) you can get way more use out of Silverblade Paladin then u can get out of other hexproofs like stalker. So i tend to go more for an aggro build then the OP.
Fliers are the real deal, and the vampires flying our way are making it hard to win the race. Thus we need answers for that. I edited my deck to the following state:
Maybe i can replace precinct captain with Quirion Dryad
I agree on the fact that loads of these die to removal. So some options are:
Mizzium Skin for SB, as an easy to counter to save ur creature on the board (Pillar, Tragic Slip, Mortar and even Mortar overloaded).
You cant be saved from most other spells.
Although this direction isn't in line with the OP, i think this (coming from testing) can be a good direction to go in.
Up untill now i went 14-1 with this deck.
I like the idea of dropping 1 rancor and adding a couple spectral flight.
I am pretty sold on invisible stalker honestly, I did however add restoration angel to the mix to put some additional bodies on the board and draw more cards off visionary. I have only played a few games with her so I don't want to say anything definitive yet, but she seems strong.
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I'm not envisioning my deck idea as single threat style deck. I'm approaching this as a couple creatures that can't be spot removed and abusing that with cheap enchantments to gain the upper hand in combat.
Standard
W.I.P.
EDH
WNorn Tokens
that would be more of an aggro style then Hexblade like said above^ this kinda deck is made to play a single hexproof dude and beat face when they cannot remove it with spot removal the problem with playing multiple hexproof dudes is you are making their field whips that much better.
what do you guys think about this list not really sure if I like it yet but its fun
3 Elvish Visionary
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Restoration Angel
2 Thragtusk
other Spells:
4 Rancor
3 Selesyna Charm
3 Azorius Charm
4 Unsummon
2 Syncopate
3 Rootborn Defenses
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Island
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Temple Garden
3 Glacial Fortress
2 Hinterland Harbor
3 Cavern of Souls
1 Moorland Haunt
1 Gavony Township
3rd at Wisconsin States 2012
Standard:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Next Lvl ZombiesB//
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
JUND Whedon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks to DNC @ Heroes of the Plane Studios for the Sig.
What are you talking about? This thread is about Bant Colored Enchantment deck that are geared towards aggro to tempo game style. I proposed the hexproof in order to try and minimize the down side of getting X for 1'ed that can happen with enchantments. Also, you're deck list doesn't fit this idea at all. It's a Bant Midrange/Good **** deck.
Standard
W.I.P.
EDH
WNorn Tokens
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
Hated Azorius Charm,
Cut a Feeling of Dread,
Loved Elvish Visionary,
Tried Fencing Ace but its only ok
Added some Negate.
I like this deck, and Bant is the bomb, but its not flowing like a winner yet. Looking forward to seeing it progress
Creatures (22)
3 Geist of Saint Traft
4 invisible Stalker
2 Loxodon Smiter
3 Quirion Dryad
4 Dryad Militant
2 Thragtusk
1 Armada Wurm
3 Restoration Angel
Spells (3)
3 Think Twice
Enchantment (10)
4 Rancor
4 Spectral Flight
2 Detention Sphere
Planeswalker (2)
1 Jace,Architect of Thought
1 Garruk Relentless
Lands (23)
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Temple Garden
3 Sunpetal Grove
3 Hinterland Harbor
3 Glacial Fortress
4 Forest
3 Plains
This is something i have been trying to make, havent really tested it out yet. I could use some comments and suggestions to help improve it... not sure about what to put in the sideboard and if the lands are efficient enough.
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Invisible Stalker
4 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Silverblade Paladin
2 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
Enchantment 15
4 Rancor
4 Ethereal Armor
3 Detention Sphere
4 Abundant Growth
2 Negate
1 Selesnya Charm
2 Feeling of Dread
2 Inaction Injunction
+ spectral flight
+ azorius charm
+ negate
- ajani
- oblivion ring
would probably be what I'd be tempted to roll. Main deal with ajani is he will almost always die immediately since you probably aren't blocking. I think azorius charm is super huge for the tempo aspect... time walk their creature or gain life, whatever is needed most. Worst case you just cycle it at the end of their turn.
One of the main points of the deck is to not give your opponent any way to profitably interact with your board.
I don't like primal hunbtbeast at all, you don't need that many hexproof creatures you just need one at a time and the rest of your spells are to support him / stay alive while he does work. Putting more than one gives a control player the opportunity to 2/3 for one you with a board wipe. One of the main aspects of this deck is to not give your opponent any way to profitably interact with your board.
You hit the nail on the head with your response, thanks =P
The deck looks solid, very similar to the tusk control lists that were being pre-rotation but heavier on the spells. It's a different deck altogether and I think there might already be a thread for bant tempo, but I'd say it's a solid list.
Hah, I totally forgot about that enchantment. I feel like it would be much more playable at 3 mana but it definitely has potential. The problem with tapping a creature on the attack is that you're still vulnerable to crackback, which is why I prefer inaction injunction / feeling of dread to improve our survival options.
Have to say I agree with you, I took the deck to a different shop where everyone plays control decks and it was having some trouble against non-stop sweepers and counterspells. The meta there was literrally 90% control, and a few pro tour players frequent the shop so it was some great testing.
I think some of the suggestions earlier about adding resto angel and thragtusk might be worth looking into. The resto angels are great after a board wipe, drawing additional cards off visionary, or bouncing your geist after blocks are declared and are a solid evasive body.
The thragtusks are also highly resilient against wipes and are amazing stabilizers against agro.
This has actually been nagging at me for a while, but I wanted to stay true to the uniqueness of the deck. I might have to give up some of that uniqueness for the sake of winning.
The deck would play the same, but rather than using tempo cards for defense we would have additional creatures. i.e.Do not cast ethereal armor on your resto angel / thragtusk and make sure to keep card advantage in mind.
You have enchantments and hexproof creatures, supported by a lot of good cards. That said, I don't really see any synergies / justifications for the cards you're using.
The decklist thus far has been thoroughly tested with a lot of reasoning behind the changes I've made, I suggest you read through the thread or provide more explanations on why you use these cards over the ones I've suggested.
It's not a bad deck but it deviates away from the core - giving your opponent very few ways to interact with your board profitably.
If you look at the SCG top 32 in cincinati, the top played removal spells were Pillar of Flame and Tragic slip. Fencing ace is not going to survive and you're going to lose an ethereal armor with that ace and possibly a rancor.
Precinct captain I don't see the point, this is not a white weenie deck, and has no anthems, no sublime archangel.
Not directed at you but to posters in general - I like that there's interest in this archetype but I've just read several posts in a row that show the thread hasn't been read in detail and that there's not a strong grasp on competitive magic. Also, please post justifications for the changes you're listing over the base list in page 1 or create your own thread if you just want a deck critique on something you have that happens to be similar.
I'm going to try and summarize the discussion points in an edit on page one later today to help people out.
Silverblade doesn't create two angels. The act of declaring attackers is when the angel token comes into play, not when damage is dealt.
Ajani is always used as a finisher. Here's the math behind it - all the damage you have on your board is coming from a single creature. Imagine having a planeswalker that can give your entire board flying/doublestrike as a -3. That's basically what ajani does. You never use his +1 except in extrememy rare circumstances. Voltron up, hit them for 7 once, then finish them next turn.
Spectral flight is just a worse version of ethereal armor in this deck.
Azorius charm is playable depending on your meta, if it's agro heavy and you have a lot of racing then definitely run it.
Oblivion ring is there for my meta which runs a lot of detention spheres.
Small misunderstanding. For the paladin, I meant one double-striking angel. You play him after Geist UNBONDED. Then when you swing with Geist, you bond with the new angel token. It double strikes and fades away. Now you have a newly unbounded paladin and they have 8 less life
I think he meant double striking angels, which if you have an unbound paladin when they're created you can do that.
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
Ahh, that makes more sense. That's something to keep in mind, I never thought of that interaction before.
I like the idea of dropping 1 rancor and adding a couple spectral flight.
I am pretty sold on invisible stalker honestly, I did however add restoration angel to the mix to put some additional bodies on the board and draw more cards off visionary. I have only played a few games with her so I don't want to say anything definitive yet, but she seems strong.