I dont actually like Unsummon in the Jund matchup. The only one of their creatures its good against is Olivia. Most have cut Nighthawk, and the rest of their creatures are quite bad. I usually side it out vs. them.
I want to keep the Izzet Charm actually, and I'm considering cutting a searing spear for the other. unsure as of yet, however for now it shall stay the same.
I dont actually like Unsummon in the Jund matchup. The only one of their creatures its good against is Olivia. Most have cut Nighthawk, and the rest of their creatures are quite bad. I usually side it out vs. them.
I want to keep the Izzet Charm actually, and I'm considering cutting a searing spear for the other. unsure as of yet, however for now it shall stay the same.
Looking at your list again. I'd cut an Azorius Charm. Like there can be some blowout moments with this card. However most of the time I use it to cycle and the life link mode has only been used twice since I started playing it. Running 2 seems like the right number.
Here's my version of the pike deck. Thoughts? I haven't tested it but it seems really sick.
Is everyone fairly happy with the way the current mana base is configured? I've had too many games where I needed double blue early for Dissipate or Snap + Flashback and have just Clifftops and a single blue source in play.
I'm trying out the following, but it may just be strictly worse:
You have 1 less W and R source, but have the added flexibility of finding either. The CIPT aspect of Wilds is not very significant since when you didn't have the 8 shocks, the rest of your lands CIPT anyway. This configuration works well for me, but I can't say for sure which config. is better.
So I've been playing Adam Prosak's UW Flash deck for a week now, but now I see the Pike variant of UWR Tempo and am intrigued. So I was gonna try this list out:
I've been playing this deck ever since Todd Anderson revealed it, and while it can be absolutely amazing, I have found the mana to be very inconsistent. Pretty much every game I've lost has been to mana screw in the form of too many M13 duals clogging up my opening hands. I'm thinking I should cut a couple more M13 duals in favor of basic lands. All I know is that when the mana is right I feel unstoppable, but there have been too many situations where I have had to mulligan repeatedly to find a salvageable opening hand... only to not get one. I see a lot of lists doing well that run a complete playset of M13 duals, sometimes with no basics at all, and I can't figure out how they are making the deck play consistently for them.
I played Pike lists for a while, and what I don't like is that you need to devote 6 slots (4 Scour and 2 Pikes) to make it work. With the lists tight as they are right now, those 6 slots could be better used on removal or tempo. Plenty of times I saw a Scour in my hand and I was wishing it was a Pillar or another removal.
Interesting is this singleton Rewind. You can counter their threat amd still have mana open for EOT Angel, but isn't 4 mana too much for a counter?
I've been playing this deck ever since Todd Anderson revealed it, and while it can be absolutely amazing, I have found the mana to be very inconsistent. Pretty much every game I've lost has been to mana screw in the form of too many M13 duals clogging up my opening hands. I'm thinking I should cut a couple more M13 duals in favor of basic lands. All I know is that when the mana is right I feel unstoppable, but there have been too many situations where I have had to mulligan repeatedly to find a salvageable opening hand... only to not get one. I see a lot of lists doing well that run a complete playset of M13 duals, sometimes with no basics at all, and I can't figure out how they are making the deck play consistently for them.
If you are having issues with mana cut one of the colorless lands. Running 2 is really greedy. I ran 2 my last fnm and i was unhappy at times. You can also cut a clifftop retreat (so you would be at 2) for a basic land of your choosing.
I love the pike version. I have that extra reach on my creatures now that i didn't have before. Moorland haunt, thought scour, and pike is a really deadly combination. I get this warm feeling inside whenever i have a x/1 first strike spirit token (where x is greater than or equal to 7) and creatures still in my hand. Such a pain for my opponent to deal with.
I also take back what i said earlier. I feel like 3 azorius charm feel right in the pike version. Its synergy with thought scour is really nice.
I am currently playing Izzet Charm as a 2 of, over Pillars and has done great things for me. It's pretty good against Jund when you counter their turn 2 Farseek. It allows you to drop your GoST and start applying pressure without having to worry about a turn 3 Huntmaster. It's also good if you are playing the counter wars against other blue decks.
But I would never cut Syncopates for Izzet Charm just because it's very flexible and can exile threats.
I personally feel that Cavern shouldn't hurt us that much. The decks that run 4 of them are mostly tribal like UW Humans or Zombies, which is a small part of the metagame. We have access to Pillars and Supreme Verdict post board for them. Tier 1 decks like Bant and Jund might use them, max of 2 copies but they can't make the most of it because they have different types of creatures.
I played Pike lists for a while, and what I don't like is that you need to devote 6 slots (4 Scour and 2 Pikes) to make it work. With the lists tight as they are right now, those 6 slots could be better used on removal or tempo. Plenty of times I saw a Scour in my hand and I was wishing it was a Pillar or another removal.
Interesting is this singleton Rewind. You can counter their threat amd still have mana open for EOT Angel, but isn't 4 mana too much for a counter?
6 slots in a deck that as 6-7 flex slots... just saying...
I ran this deck at SCG Dallas, this weekend. I don't have time to post a list right now, but a couple highlights of my list were x3 Thundermaw, x1 Zealous Conscripts, x2 Slayer's Stronghold, x3 Dispels (Sideboard), x3 Izzet Staticaster (Sideboard).
Zealous Conscripts is almost always incredible, as some of us have come to realize.
vs control, Turn 2 Snapcaster, followed by a Slayer's Stronghold makes for a quick clock.
Dispel turns around the game completely, especially for popping down an early Geist vs Control.
Izzet Staticaster was definitely a sleeper for me, until I added it to my deck. It kills pretty much anything that's being played right now, when combined with Searing Spear or Pillar.
A couple other notes. Zombies, Jund, and Grixxis are very easy match-ups for us. GW aggro can be rough, depending on our opening hand.
In round 3, I played Fang Ho, he piloted the Pike Version of this deck to Top 8. We had incredible Games 1 and 2, but I got mana screwed on Game 3. Some thoughts I ended up having on pike: It's awesome. I don't like that Fang dropped Thundermaw completely for it though. I dropped one Thundermaw and a couple other things for x4 Think Twice and x2 Pike (Also swaped the second Slayer's Stronghold for a Moorland Haunt). These changes definitely made a huge change in the deck, especially against GW aggro.
Sorry about all my scattered thoughts, but I figure I would share all of that. If there's anything that doesn't make sense, please let me know, this was written pretty hastily.
If the pike version starts to increase in popularity, I will turn the primer into 2 sepereate sections: The Midrange Version and the Pike version, as I believe they both deserve their own attention in the future.
I talked with Koopa, and he and I both agreed that it is an "Aggro" deck in that we want to get our opponents down as fast as possible. I am trying to convince him to change it to UW/x Aggro variants but I still think its fine.
IMO its just easier if it stays here.
Hrm, not what I find with this deck at all, I prefer to take the control rather than the beatdown in the early game versus almost any given matchup with the caveat that t3 geist with backup is a free win scenario that happens to be in the deck. We have a super midrange gameplan in the dark, but one of the greatest strengths of this deck is that it can seamlessly transition between roles when the situation demands it.
Anyone try Niv-Mizet in this deck? I've been experimenting with one until I find a 3rd Dragon and so far I've found that if I untap with him in play I just win. This deck already likes to go to the dome, an aspect he reinforces very effectively. The card advantage that goes along with that seems to just be unfair. He does not play well with Bonfire, and he's a little pricey @ 6 mana, but he has a nice fat ass and if your oppo can't remove him or kill you the next turn it's pretty much gg.
I treid Niv in the board for a while for use versus slower decks, and yes, untapping with him when you arent too far behind is a ggs situation most of the time. The problem with that scenario is that it's extremely rare. He's far too expensive to be able to wait until you have counter backup to cast, and tapping out at that stage of the game is often suicidal. The card that I replaced him with in my board was Thoughtflare, and it has been rockin. I don't like Sphinx's Revelation all that much in general even though I run it when I play bant or esper, but esper doesn't mind tapping out as much, and bant can leverage the huge amounts of mana it generates very effectively with the revelation. For us, our mana production is often limited, and not super conducive to playing the revelation for more than 3 which is coincidentally about how many cards you end up with for 1 less mana when you Thoughtflare because of the card selection and snapcaster being in the deck. Digging four deep EoT on turn 5 is awesome, although it's not really a main deck card.
The same goes with Bonfire of the Damned. It's bad against Jund, Bant Control and makes you tap out when you should be keeping your mana up for countermagic.
I don't run bonfire at all myself, but it's actually a very defensible choice to run 2 in the 75. It is pretty bad in general against most jund builds, but vs. the ones with Garruk, Primal Hunter (which going forward should be most of them that guy is just plain nutzoid) having additional ways to fight that guy is nice. Also true for bant lists, especially the ones with centaur healer since he's so god versus our geists. That said, I choose to play my deck at instant speed as much as possible, so I'm running without for the moment, but always keeping it in mind for the sideboard.
is Slayers' Stronghold really that good? I'm using Moorland Haunt and Desolate Lighthouse and I'm impressed with Loothouse. Should the game drag longer than expected, Loothouse really helped me to dig further.
I personally think that running multiple colorless lands in this deck is a touch greedy since the only card draw we run with tends to be Azorious Charm which is often better served by using the put on top mode than the draw mode even when it appears otherwise. That said, Moorland Haunt is best in pike builds because of the insane synergy the two cards have, and I think if you have pike and no haunt, you're doing it wrong, especially witht he low threat density you have otherwise. Haunt is also quite good in the mirror w/o pike as it taxes the opponent's resources to deal with dinky little 1/1 tokens. Desolate Lighthouse is the best when things are going bad in the late game changing almost every land you draw into gas. I have been running with loothouse most of the time, but with the rise of U/W, and the increasing popularity of UWR, I think that it's time to move away from loothouse and into one of the other options. Slayers' Stronghold is the most aggressive option, and it can be a real beating as it lets your angels punch through theirs, it also makes your angels better at dealing with opposing walkers as you can EoT angel, then stronghold your angel to take down a tamiyo, garruk or sorin and still have her on defense and possibly even countermagic up... I am most likely going with stronghold going forward because I like the threat that it represents just by being on the table w/o taking up slots the way pike does. There is however a fourth option that noone seems to be running atm, but that might be worth it if UW and UWR continue increasing in popularity and bant keeps moving more towards countermagic... Cavern of Souls. Uncounterable angels are no joke, and a source of frustration when fighting reanimator/bant/naya/UW/junk, but I think that where it really shines is making uncounterable dragons since it makes double red easier to find, and it makes tapping out ftw much less scary. It's possible that some number of clifftop retreats could become caverns, and I intend to play with the manabase some this week and see if it fits or if it just makes our non creature spells that much harder to cast.
I could be wrong here, but I think the decision point is either hellkite or pike. Running both is just asking for it it seems. Also, I think that the pike version should start with the U/W deck as it's base rather than the U/W/R version. U/W is just an amazing pike deck whereas we are not. Having only 2 spells in the entire deck that are sorcery speed is really nice, especially when they are both good against aggro, and both only cost 2 mana. Finding room in that deck for some searing spears might not be too hard, and in fact, that's more what Fang Ho's deck from Dallas this past weekend (http://tinyurl.com/cw7gkmx) looks like except trading Augur for Geist which might be correct with actual removal plus reach. I feel like his choice of double haunt might be better as haunt plus stronghold, but then again, having scour insurance could be more correct.
Looking at your list again. I'd cut an Azorius Charm. Like there can be some blowout moments with this card. However most of the time I use it to cycle and the life link mode has only been used twice since I started playing it. Running 2 seems like the right number.
Much like searing spear, I'd be hard to convince that anything other than 4 is the correct number. If you're cycling most of the time then either your meta is skewed, or you're misevaluating the card. Yes it's usually bad against Thragtusk but in general setting the opponent back a turn is what you want to be doing. Think of it as the removal analogue of Remand. It's slightly worse in that it doesn't stop ETB effects, but it's also better in that they can't just recast it, and it always sets them back a draw. The incremental advantage gained in this way is usually better than a random card out of your deck unless you're playing against miracles or the esper walkers deck in which case the cycle is almost always the best mode.
I played Pike lists for a while, and what I don't like is that you need to devote 6 slots (4 Scour and 2 Pikes) to make it work. With the lists tight as they are right now, those 6 slots could be better used on removal or tempo.
This is why I think that this isn't the right frame to graft a pike package onto. I'm fairly certain it would be better to graft red onto the pike deck rather than the other way around.
Interesting is this singleton Rewind. You can counter their threat amd still have mana open for EOT Angel, but isn't 4 mana too much for a counter?
Well, 4 open mana is a pretty awesome place to be since you can be representing Dissipate (plus Unsummon), or Restoration Angel, or Snapcaster Mage plus any number of other spells, or Syncopate for 3, Azorius Charm plus Thought Scour, or Rewind plus any other aforementioned choices. Good luck playing around all of that... If anything I'd want a second Rewind available, and the U/W players I talked to all seemed to want the third one.
Hrm, not what I find with this deck at all, I prefer to take the control rather than the beatdown in the early game versus almost any given matchup with the caveat that t3 geist with backup is a free win scenario that happens to be in the deck. We have a super midrange gameplan in the dark, but one of the greatest strengths of this deck is that it can seamlessly transition between roles when the situation demands it.
Fair enough. I still think its just easier to leave it here. Its not like people can't find it
I treid Niv in the board for a while for use versus slower decks, and yes, untapping with him when you arent too far behind is a ggs situation most of the time. The problem with that scenario is that it's extremely rare. He's far too expensive to be able to wait until you have counter backup to cast, and tapping out at that stage of the game is often suicidal. The card that I replaced him with in my board was Thoughtflare, and it has been rockin. I don't like Sphinx's Revelation all that much in general even though I run it when I play bant or esper, but esper doesn't mind tapping out as much, and bant can leverage the huge amounts of mana it generates very effectively with the revelation. For us, our mana production is often limited, and not super conducive to playing the revelation for more than 3 which is coincidentally about how many cards you end up with for 1 less mana when you Thoughtflare because of the card selection and snapcaster being in the deck. Digging four deep EoT on turn 5 is awesome, although it's not really a main deck card.
I'm not a fan of any, but if i were to play one it would be revelation. Gaining life is also important, remember that
I don't run bonfire at all myself, but it's actually a very defensible choice to run 2 in the 75. It is pretty bad in general against most jund builds, but vs. the ones with Garruk, Primal Hunter (which going forward should be most of them that guy is just plain nutzoid) having additional ways to fight that guy is nice. Also true for bant lists, especially the ones with centaur healer since he's so god versus our geists. That said, I choose to play my deck at instant speed as much as possible, so I'm running without for the moment, but always keeping it in mind for the sideboard.
Bonfire is an interesting card, but in my experience its not for this deck for exactly that reason: we dont want to tap out for a sweeper.
I personally think that running multiple colorless lands in this deck is a touch greedy since the only card draw we run with tends to be Azorious Charm which is often better served by using the put on top mode than the draw mode even when it appears otherwise. That said, Moorland Haunt is best in pike builds because of the insane synergy the two cards have, and I think if you have pike and no haunt, you're doing it wrong, especially witht he low threat density you have otherwise. Haunt is also quite good in the mirror w/o pike as it taxes the opponent's resources to deal with dinky little 1/1 tokens. Desolate Lighthouse is the best when things are going bad in the late game changing almost every land you draw into gas. I have been running with loothouse most of the time, but with the rise of U/W, and the increasing popularity of UWR, I think that it's time to move away from loothouse and into one of the other options. Slayers' Stronghold is the most aggressive option, and it can be a real beating as it lets your angels punch through theirs, it also makes your angels better at dealing with opposing walkers as you can EoT angel, then stronghold your angel to take down a tamiyo, garruk or sorin and still have her on defense and possibly even countermagic up... I am most likely going with stronghold going forward because I like the threat that it represents just by being on the table w/o taking up slots the way pike does. There is however a fourth option that noone seems to be running atm, but that might be worth it if UW and UWR continue increasing in popularity and bant keeps moving more towards countermagic... Cavern of Souls. Uncounterable angels are no joke, and a source of frustration when fighting reanimator/bant/naya/UW/junk, but I think that where it really shines is making uncounterable dragons since it makes double red easier to find, and it makes tapping out ftw much less scary. It's possible that some number of clifftop retreats could become caverns, and I intend to play with the manabase some this week and see if it fits or if it just makes our non creature spells that much harder to cast.
Cavern is fine, Moorland in the Pike version is correct, all others its Slayers' Stronghold imo, just for the aggresive portion. The manabase is the hardest to tweak, yet I believe its vital for our success that we do tweak it. At least until we get Sacred Foundry.
I could be wrong here, but I think the decision point is either hellkite or pike. Running both is just asking for it it seems. Also, I think that the pike version should start with the U/W deck as it's base rather than the U/W/R version. U/W is just an amazing pike deck whereas we are not. Having only 2 spells in the entire deck that are sorcery speed is really nice, especially when they are both good against aggro, and both only cost 2 mana. Finding room in that deck for some searing spears might not be too hard, and in fact, that's more what Fang Ho's deck from Dallas this past weekend (http://tinyurl.com/cw7gkmx) looks like except trading Augur for Geist which might be correct with actual removal plus reach. I feel like his choice of double haunt might be better as haunt plus stronghold, but then again, having scour insurance could be more correct.
I don't play the UW Flash version just because of this: their lack of threats is astounding. If they deal with Pike at all, your left with just Resto Angel to do your dirty work, and that cares me. I agree that double Haunt is correct over haunt + stronghold, however I also believe just 1 colorless land should be in this deck, and for me thats Moorland. I dont like Fang's choice of 3 Pike and no Hellkite. I think he should at least play 1, if not 2 Hellkite, just due to its power. Having the power to finish off games is why this deck is so good in my opinion.
Much like searing spear, I'd be hard to convince that anything other than 4 is the correct number. If you're cycling most of the time then either your meta is skewed, or you're misevaluating the card. Yes it's usually bad against Thragtusk but in general setting the opponent back a turn is what you want to be doing. Think of it as the removal analogue of Remand. It's slightly worse in that it doesn't stop ETB effects, but it's also better in that they can't just recast it, and it always sets them back a draw. The incremental advantage gained in this way is usually better than a random card out of your deck unless you're playing against miracles or the esper walkers deck in which case the cycle is almost always the best mode.
I've been happy with 3 of both, and would never consider changing. I dont normally like seeing more than 2 of each of those, and with Snapcaster you see 2 often enough with 3 of each. I would never go down to 2 of either, but I dont think i'm going up to 4 anytime soon.
This is why I think that this isn't the right frame to graft a pike package onto. I'm fairly certain it would be better to graft red onto the pike deck rather than the other way around.
I think this COULD be correct, however we still need to run Thundermaw IMO. At least 1.
Well, 4 open mana is a pretty awesome place to be since you can be representing Dissipate (plus Unsummon), or Restoration Angel, or Snapcaster Mage plus any number of other spells, or Syncopate for 3, Azorius Charm plus Thought Scour, or Rewind plus any other aforementioned choices. Good luck playing around all of that... If anything I'd want a second Rewind available, and the U/W players I talked to all seemed to want the third one.
I think I'm in the school of thought that if you're running the Pike variant, then you need to sacrifice Thundermaw. After playing UW Flash for a bit, I greatly appreciate not playing anything on my turn. I think what Fang ultimately did was use the UW Flash as his base, and just splashed red. Even his sideboard is similar to UW Flash's. So having only GoST and Pike to play on your turn is favorable. Adding Thundermaw adds a five CMC to tap down for on your turn. In my opinion, I think it's worth the sacrifice. It does have its flaws, however.
If they take the pikes out, or if you accidentally mill it with Thought Scour, then you're relying on the Angel. It also lacks Detention Sphere to clear out some of the peskier of creatures or permanents.
I'm personally having a difficult time deciding which deck I want to continue playing in the current Standard format. I like UWR Midrange and had a lot of fun playing UW Flash. The pike variant is a nice blend of the two, so I'm gonna try it out for a bit.
Unfortunately, Fang's version runs two Pillars and a Mortars. If I could, I'd run it without Pillar altogether, but I'm aware of how foolish that would be. I won't be using Mortars, though. The less sorceries the better.
As far as the sideboard, why not Erase instead of Sundering Growth? Does the same thing (minus the populate mechanic) and only costs W.
I think I'm in the school of thought that if you're running the Pike variant, then you need to sacrifice Thundermaw. After playing UW Flash for a bit, I greatly appreciate not playing anything on my turn. I think what Fang ultimately did was use the UW Flash as his base, and just splashed red. Even his sideboard is similar to UW Flash's. So having only GoST and Pike to play on your turn is favorable. Adding Thundermaw adds a five CMC to tap down for on your turn. In my opinion, I think it's worth the sacrifice. It does have its flaws, however.
If they take the pikes out, or if you accidentally mill it with Thought Scour, then you're relying on the Angel. It also lacks Detention Sphere to clear out some of the peskier of creatures or permanents.
I'm personally having a difficult time deciding which deck I want to continue playing in the current Standard format. I like UWR Midrange and had a lot of fun playing UW Flash. The pike variant is a nice blend of the two, so I'm gonna try it out for a bit.
Unfortunately, Fang's version runs two Pillars and a Mortars. If I could, I'd run it without Pillar altogether, but I'm aware of how foolish that would be. I won't be using Mortars, though. The less sorceries the better.
As far as the sideboard, why not Erase instead of Sundering Growth? Does the same thing (minus the populate mechanic) and only costs W.
I have been going over the deck from many angles in preparation for SCG Seattle and after working with UWr and UW Flash, UWr Flash is where I want to be. It has more angles for attack, more threat diversity against things like Slaughter games and it excels against UWr and UW Flash simply because it has Thundermaw and Pike which are phenomenal end games for the deck in both matches and difficult to deal with both if they both come online.
As far as Sundering Growth over Erase, UW Flash runs pike. I would pay the extra W to cover that potentially loose end. Both decks are very real and that is something that needs to be considered.
I'm gonna chip in and say: In testing runechanter's pike have been quite good for me. I also play desperate ravings with the pikes which also have been good.
Really love the direction this deck is headed. Only concern is that Jund/Bant/Junk decks will move to multiple Cavern of Souls? What will happen then?
Then either they will die to their own inconsistencies, or someone will take advantage of the metagame atm and then we will probably die out...
I know what I'm brewing at the moment. Aggressive to beat the control decks, uncounterable to beat these decks, and has to include white for the reanimator decks...
The first fnm had 36 players and I went 6-0 going losing just a single game to the mirror in the finals. The second fnm had 34 players, I went 5-0-1 (ID) with friend in round 5, not losing a single game the whole night bringing my game total 22-1 in games. I was thinking about switching the Dungeon Geists in the board this week for two Supreme Verdicts and trying out a Zealous Conscripts. I was also considering dropping a bonfire for either a Dissipate or Revelation main. Any thoughts on these changes?
I'm gonna chip in and say: In testing runechanter's pike have been quite good for me. I also play desperate ravings with the pikes which also have been good.
Really love the direction this deck is headed. Only concern is that Jund/Bant/Junk decks will move to multiple Cavern of Souls? What will happen then?
The Pike version doesn't really care about uncounterable Thragtusks since the first strike and/or evasion on spirits is huge. Imo to beat this deck, you actually want to play more counters like UW Flash or go faster a la RB Aggro.
I've been playing this deck since rotation with 2 Zealous Conscripts and 1 Thundermaw Hellkite mainboard. I've decided to cut the Thundermaw. Zealous may only be good when there's something good to steal, but most of the time when my opponent doesn't have anything good to steal, I'm gonna win anyways.
As far as Sundering Growth over Erase, UW Flash runs pike. I would pay the extra W to cover that potentially loose end. Both decks are very real and that is something that needs to be considered.
Oops, I completely overlooked the "artifact or enchantment" part of Sundering Growth. I read it only as destroying target enchantment. My mistake.
So after watching Todds Play test video against mono red and doing some testing of my own i think this i our worse matchup and with mono red gaining some speed i think this needs to be addressed at least in the sb. What are your guys thoughts on mono red? I honestly cant think of a matchup i fear more. Only thing i really have now is dispel which is good against control and the only reason i have that.
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I want to keep the Izzet Charm actually, and I'm considering cutting a searing spear for the other. unsure as of yet, however for now it shall stay the same.
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
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xRxAffinityxRx
Looking at your list again. I'd cut an Azorius Charm. Like there can be some blowout moments with this card. However most of the time I use it to cycle and the life link mode has only been used twice since I started playing it. Running 2 seems like the right number.
Here's my version of the pike deck. Thoughts? I haven't tested it but it seems really sick.
4x Geist of Saint Traft
4x Restoration Angel
2x Thundermaw Hellkite
2x Runechanter's Pike
2x Pillar of Flame
2x Searing Spear
2x Detention Sphere
1x Unsommon
2x Azorius Charm
1x Izzet Charm
2x Essence Scatter
2x Dissipate
2x Syncopate
4x Thought Scour
4x Sulfur Falls
4x Hallowed Fountain
4x Glacial Fortress
3x Clifftop Retreat
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Island
1x Moorland Haunt
1x Dispel
2x Negate
1x Dissipate
1x Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
2x Jace, Architect of Thought
2x Dungeon Geists
2x Supreme Verdict
2x Purify the Grave
2x Pillar of Flame
I'm trying out the following, but it may just be strictly worse:
4x Steam Vents
4x Hallowed Fountain
4x Glacial Fortress
3x Sulfur Falls
2x Evolving Wilds
1x Mountain
1x Plains
2x Island
2x Moorland Haunt
You have 1 less W and R source, but have the added flexibility of finding either. The CIPT aspect of Wilds is not very significant since when you didn't have the 8 shocks, the rest of your lands CIPT anyway. This configuration works well for me, but I can't say for sure which config. is better.
4 Restoration Angel
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Azorius Charm
2 Dissipate
2 Essence Scatter
1 Izzet Charm
2 Pillar of Flame
1 Rewind
2 Runechanter's Pike
3 Searing Spear
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Syncopate
4 Thought Scour
2 Unsummon
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
2 Moorland Haunt
1 Plains
4 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
2 Detention Sphere
2 Dispel
1 Erase
1 Faith's Shield
2 Negate
2 Purify the Grave
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
There are some minor differences here and there, but overall it's the shell of Fang Ho's list. Questions? Comments? Concerns?
Here is the deck I ran last FNM:
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Mountain
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Sulfur Falls
3 Clifftop Retreat
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Steam Vents
1 Moorland Haunt
1 Slayers' Stronghold
Creatures: 15
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Restoration Angel
3 Thundermaw Hellkite
2 Pillar of Flame
4 Searing Spear
Counters: 7
3 Syncopate
2 Essence Scatter
2 Dissipate
Other Spells: 8
1 Unsummon
4 Azorius Charm
2 Detention Sphere
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
2 Negate
3 Supreme Verdict
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Purify the Grave
2 Dispel
1 Zealous Conscripts
2 Dissipate
Interesting is this singleton Rewind. You can counter their threat amd still have mana open for EOT Angel, but isn't 4 mana too much for a counter?
My old nickname was lockheart87.
I love the pike version. I have that extra reach on my creatures now that i didn't have before. Moorland haunt, thought scour, and pike is a really deadly combination. I get this warm feeling inside whenever i have a x/1 first strike spirit token (where x is greater than or equal to 7) and creatures still in my hand. Such a pain for my opponent to deal with.
I also take back what i said earlier. I feel like 3 azorius charm feel right in the pike version. Its synergy with thought scour is really nice.
Cavern naming Beast is a rather big set back.
6 slots in a deck that as 6-7 flex slots... just saying...
Zealous Conscripts is almost always incredible, as some of us have come to realize.
vs control, Turn 2 Snapcaster, followed by a Slayer's Stronghold makes for a quick clock.
Dispel turns around the game completely, especially for popping down an early Geist vs Control.
Izzet Staticaster was definitely a sleeper for me, until I added it to my deck. It kills pretty much anything that's being played right now, when combined with Searing Spear or Pillar.
A couple other notes. Zombies, Jund, and Grixxis are very easy match-ups for us. GW aggro can be rough, depending on our opening hand.
In round 3, I played Fang Ho, he piloted the Pike Version of this deck to Top 8. We had incredible Games 1 and 2, but I got mana screwed on Game 3. Some thoughts I ended up having on pike: It's awesome. I don't like that Fang dropped Thundermaw completely for it though. I dropped one Thundermaw and a couple other things for x4 Think Twice and x2 Pike (Also swaped the second Slayer's Stronghold for a Moorland Haunt). These changes definitely made a huge change in the deck, especially against GW aggro.
Sorry about all my scattered thoughts, but I figure I would share all of that. If there's anything that doesn't make sense, please let me know, this was written pretty hastily.
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
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xRxAffinityxRx
Hrm, not what I find with this deck at all, I prefer to take the control rather than the beatdown in the early game versus almost any given matchup with the caveat that t3 geist with backup is a free win scenario that happens to be in the deck. We have a super midrange gameplan in the dark, but one of the greatest strengths of this deck is that it can seamlessly transition between roles when the situation demands it.
I treid Niv in the board for a while for use versus slower decks, and yes, untapping with him when you arent too far behind is a ggs situation most of the time. The problem with that scenario is that it's extremely rare. He's far too expensive to be able to wait until you have counter backup to cast, and tapping out at that stage of the game is often suicidal. The card that I replaced him with in my board was Thoughtflare, and it has been rockin. I don't like Sphinx's Revelation all that much in general even though I run it when I play bant or esper, but esper doesn't mind tapping out as much, and bant can leverage the huge amounts of mana it generates very effectively with the revelation. For us, our mana production is often limited, and not super conducive to playing the revelation for more than 3 which is coincidentally about how many cards you end up with for 1 less mana when you Thoughtflare because of the card selection and snapcaster being in the deck. Digging four deep EoT on turn 5 is awesome, although it's not really a main deck card.
I don't run bonfire at all myself, but it's actually a very defensible choice to run 2 in the 75. It is pretty bad in general against most jund builds, but vs. the ones with Garruk, Primal Hunter (which going forward should be most of them that guy is just plain nutzoid) having additional ways to fight that guy is nice. Also true for bant lists, especially the ones with centaur healer since he's so god versus our geists. That said, I choose to play my deck at instant speed as much as possible, so I'm running without for the moment, but always keeping it in mind for the sideboard.
I personally think that running multiple colorless lands in this deck is a touch greedy since the only card draw we run with tends to be Azorious Charm which is often better served by using the put on top mode than the draw mode even when it appears otherwise. That said, Moorland Haunt is best in pike builds because of the insane synergy the two cards have, and I think if you have pike and no haunt, you're doing it wrong, especially witht he low threat density you have otherwise. Haunt is also quite good in the mirror w/o pike as it taxes the opponent's resources to deal with dinky little 1/1 tokens. Desolate Lighthouse is the best when things are going bad in the late game changing almost every land you draw into gas. I have been running with loothouse most of the time, but with the rise of U/W, and the increasing popularity of UWR, I think that it's time to move away from loothouse and into one of the other options. Slayers' Stronghold is the most aggressive option, and it can be a real beating as it lets your angels punch through theirs, it also makes your angels better at dealing with opposing walkers as you can EoT angel, then stronghold your angel to take down a tamiyo, garruk or sorin and still have her on defense and possibly even countermagic up... I am most likely going with stronghold going forward because I like the threat that it represents just by being on the table w/o taking up slots the way pike does. There is however a fourth option that noone seems to be running atm, but that might be worth it if UW and UWR continue increasing in popularity and bant keeps moving more towards countermagic... Cavern of Souls. Uncounterable angels are no joke, and a source of frustration when fighting reanimator/bant/naya/UW/junk, but I think that where it really shines is making uncounterable dragons since it makes double red easier to find, and it makes tapping out ftw much less scary. It's possible that some number of clifftop retreats could become caverns, and I intend to play with the manabase some this week and see if it fits or if it just makes our non creature spells that much harder to cast.
I could be wrong here, but I think the decision point is either hellkite or pike. Running both is just asking for it it seems. Also, I think that the pike version should start with the U/W deck as it's base rather than the U/W/R version. U/W is just an amazing pike deck whereas we are not. Having only 2 spells in the entire deck that are sorcery speed is really nice, especially when they are both good against aggro, and both only cost 2 mana. Finding room in that deck for some searing spears might not be too hard, and in fact, that's more what Fang Ho's deck from Dallas this past weekend (http://tinyurl.com/cw7gkmx) looks like except trading Augur for Geist which might be correct with actual removal plus reach. I feel like his choice of double haunt might be better as haunt plus stronghold, but then again, having scour insurance could be more correct.
Much like searing spear, I'd be hard to convince that anything other than 4 is the correct number. If you're cycling most of the time then either your meta is skewed, or you're misevaluating the card. Yes it's usually bad against Thragtusk but in general setting the opponent back a turn is what you want to be doing. Think of it as the removal analogue of Remand. It's slightly worse in that it doesn't stop ETB effects, but it's also better in that they can't just recast it, and it always sets them back a draw. The incremental advantage gained in this way is usually better than a random card out of your deck unless you're playing against miracles or the esper walkers deck in which case the cycle is almost always the best mode.
This is why I think that this isn't the right frame to graft a pike package onto. I'm fairly certain it would be better to graft red onto the pike deck rather than the other way around.
Well, 4 open mana is a pretty awesome place to be since you can be representing Dissipate (plus Unsummon), or Restoration Angel, or Snapcaster Mage plus any number of other spells, or Syncopate for 3, Azorius Charm plus Thought Scour, or Rewind plus any other aforementioned choices. Good luck playing around all of that... If anything I'd want a second Rewind available, and the U/W players I talked to all seemed to want the third one.
Replies in bold
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
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xRxAffinityxRx
If they take the pikes out, or if you accidentally mill it with Thought Scour, then you're relying on the Angel. It also lacks Detention Sphere to clear out some of the peskier of creatures or permanents.
I'm personally having a difficult time deciding which deck I want to continue playing in the current Standard format. I like UWR Midrange and had a lot of fun playing UW Flash. The pike variant is a nice blend of the two, so I'm gonna try it out for a bit.
Unfortunately, Fang's version runs two Pillars and a Mortars. If I could, I'd run it without Pillar altogether, but I'm aware of how foolish that would be. I won't be using Mortars, though. The less sorceries the better.
As far as the sideboard, why not Erase instead of Sundering Growth? Does the same thing (minus the populate mechanic) and only costs W.
I have been going over the deck from many angles in preparation for SCG Seattle and after working with UWr and UW Flash, UWr Flash is where I want to be. It has more angles for attack, more threat diversity against things like Slaughter games and it excels against UWr and UW Flash simply because it has Thundermaw and Pike which are phenomenal end games for the deck in both matches and difficult to deal with both if they both come online.
As far as Sundering Growth over Erase, UW Flash runs pike. I would pay the extra W to cover that potentially loose end. Both decks are very real and that is something that needs to be considered.
Really love the direction this deck is headed. Only concern is that Jund/Bant/Junk decks will move to multiple Cavern of Souls? What will happen then?
I know what I'm brewing at the moment. Aggressive to beat the control decks, uncounterable to beat these decks, and has to include white for the reanimator decks...
Also, Yeva. Just saying
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
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xRxAffinityxRx
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Restoration Angel
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
4 Azorius Charm
3 Syncopate
3 Searing Spear
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Essence Scatter
2 Detention Sphere
2 Bonfire of the Damned
1 Unsummon
1 Feeling of Dread
1 Izzet Charm
1 Dissipate
4 Steam Vents
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Sulfur Falls
4 Clifftop Retreat
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Slayer's Stronghold
3 Dungeon Geist
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Purify the Grave
2 Dispel
2 Negate
2 Dissipate
1 Mizzium Mortars
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
The first fnm had 36 players and I went 6-0 going losing just a single game to the mirror in the finals. The second fnm had 34 players, I went 5-0-1 (ID) with friend in round 5, not losing a single game the whole night bringing my game total 22-1 in games. I was thinking about switching the Dungeon Geists in the board this week for two Supreme Verdicts and trying out a Zealous Conscripts. I was also considering dropping a bonfire for either a Dissipate or Revelation main. Any thoughts on these changes?
The Pike version doesn't really care about uncounterable Thragtusks since the first strike and/or evasion on spirits is huge. Imo to beat this deck, you actually want to play more counters like UW Flash or go faster a la RB Aggro.
Desolate Lighthouse has definitely been my favorite of the utility lands.
Searing Spear is sadly absolutely necessary.
Azorius Charm is very good.
Izzet Charm doesn't seem worth it in the current meta.
23 Lands is okay if you run both Though Scour and Azorius Charm.
Essence Scatter needs to be at least in board.
Bonfire of the Damned is fine as a 5 mana Pyroclasm if you're going to see a lot of 2 toughness creatures. Also good for 3 mana against dorks.
Syncopate is good enough against most decks. Bad against control. I support 3-4 Dissipates in the 75.
http://www.twitch.tv/strong_sad/b/337716053
Game 1.
Nvm, this is such a old list.
Oops, I completely overlooked the "artifact or enchantment" part of Sundering Growth. I read it only as destroying target enchantment. My mistake.
4x Geist of Saint Traft
4x Restoration Angel
2x Thundermaw Hellkite
2x Runechanter's Pike
3x Searing Spear
2x Detention Sphere
1x Unsommon
2x Azorius Charm
2x Izzet Charm
2x Essence Scatter
2x Dissipate
3x Syncopate
4x Thought Scour
4x Sulfur Falls
4x Hallowed Fountain
4x Glacial Fortress
2x Clifftop Retreat
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Island
2x Moorland Haunt
2x Negate
1x Dissipate
1x Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
2x Jace, Architect of Thought
2x Dungeon Geists
2x Supreme Verdict
2x Purify the Grave
3x Pillar of Flame