I find BTE more effective over GHCW for all around deck coverage. Dropping a one drop with the red mana isn't always a bad thing especially if its turn three and Im setting up for hellrider. I can also spend 1 red mana on turn 3 and recycle the one red mana from BTE to lay Ash Zealot on Turn 3.
Its nice to have a defender at home for close dicey games as well. I remember one game on turn 5 I dropped BTE and recycled its mana for Thundermaw Hellkite. The home defender saved me the game and allowed me to do the damage I needed to do with TMHK both on Turn 5 and Turn 6.
Glaring Spotlight is good for its sac as well. I'm going to strike Hellion Crucible from the list for the moment but I have it in my deck of cards if needed. I'd rather have the 7 cards and no need to mulligan. it also announces to my enemy I have nothing better I can do and sometimes Id rather them think my land I'm holding is a searing spear.
Whats really interesting is how much Im liking Legion Loyalist and Boros Reckoner. Everyone is liking the Reckoner for obvious reasons but Im seeing more and more people spend removal on Legion Loyalist in fear of what he'll do which allows me to play my bigger cards with much less fear.
I find BTE more effective over GHCW for all around deck coverage. Dropping a one drop with the red mana isn't always a bad thing especially if its turn three and Im setting up for hellrider. I can also spend 1 red mana on turn 3 and recycle the one red mana from BTE to lay Ash Zealot on Turn 3.
Its nice to have a defender at home for close dicey games as well. I remember one game on turn 5 I dropped BTE and recycled its mana for Thundermaw Hellkite. The home defender saved me the game and allowed me to do the damage I needed to do with TMHK both on Turn 5 and Turn 6.
Glaring Spotlight is good for its sac as well. I'm going to strike Hellion Crucible from the list for the moment but I have it in my deck of cards if needed. I'd rather have the 7 cards and no need to mulligan. it also announces to my enemy I have nothing better I can do and sometimes Id rather them think my land I'm holding is a searing spear.
Whats really interesting is how much Im liking Legion Loyalist and Boros Reckoner. Everyone is liking the Reckoner for obvious reasons but Im seeing more and more people spend removal on Legion Loyalist in fear of what he'll do which allows me to play my bigger cards with much less fear.
from your argument on BTE, it seems to me that you just want a 1 drop 2/2. cackler seems to do the same thing in all the situations you mentioned while also being a T1 play.
hellion crucible doesn't signal that you have nothing better to do. For instance if you're in a situation where you're waiting for them to play something so you can spear it and they don't, you're not just passing turn without making use of your mana. You can still bluff spear, but if they call your bluff and play through it then you still have options.
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This is what I played for about 3 hours this evening against my friend. He was testing out a BUG combo, I think, that didn't really work out for him. Then he switched to a Naya Zoo that ended up being way more consistent. I'm happy that I successfully stared down as much aggro as I did. I was afraid I was having a dry spell...
Man, those Aristocrats are hardcore. I know that's not news to anyone else, but I'm still kinda new to Standard competitive play. And Thatcher Revolt is included almost strictly to feed Aristocrat.
I keep going back and forth on Fervent Cathar and Knight of Infamy. Would have been great versus my friend's Naya deck to play the Knight, but I didn't want to get lulled into a false sense of what does and doesn't work because of Knight's Protection. Cathar screws with my curve, but eliminating a blocker was always nice.
Turn 4 Aristocrat, turn 5 Zealous Conscripts, steal the opponent's fatty... that was almost always game right there. Nonetheless, I have this Thundermaw Hellkite I'm probably going to swap the Conscripts out for. Because if I can't swing for game off Conscripts + what she steals she's just a 3/3 body that cost me 5 to cast. Thundermaw at least is a 5/5 flyer all the time.
Cavern of Souls is great, and I'm not knocking it, but I honestly had more trouble with O-Ring than getting an Aristocrat to stick. And tapping for colorless almost never helped. Plus, I'm pretty sure once I dropped a Cavern and declared "vampires", he started sitting on his O-Rings. I'm not convinced I won't keep it around, just probably not as a set of 4.
Boros Reckoner is great. Fishing out 3 red mana sources fast enough to get him in play in time to be a deterrent... not so much. Maybe if I went down to 2x Caverns and 11x Mountains I'd have an easier time of it.
The mana base might need fine tuning. The numbers of mountains and forests need some correction as there are times where I need mountains for boars and forests for geists. The sideboard might also need some work. Naturalize and needle are there for blind obedience and plansewalkers, olivia, and innistrad special lands. Not sure if they are right.
The mana base might need fine tuning. The numbers of mountains and forests need some correction as there are times where I need mountains for boars and forests for geists. The sideboard might also need some work. Naturalize and needle are there for blind obedience and plansewalkers, olivia, and innistrad special lands. Not sure if they are right.
I like it. If you expect a lot of aggro then tree of redemption makes a fine SB card as well.
I love the interaction that increasing savagery has with experiment one, however if you expect to see azorius charm in decent numbers at your lgs, then it's probably not that great of an idea.
I'm pretty sure some number of removal is needed somewhere in here. I get your plans to simply out class your opponents creatures and fight with domri, but personally I think you'll want some number of mizzium mortars/searing spear somewhere in the 75. maybe cut 1-2 increasing savagery for some mizzium mortars.
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I'd cut the Blasphemous Act from the sideboard. It's fun and all but it's a dead card in your hand more often than not in a deck that doesn't want to draw dead cards.
I like it. If you expect a lot of aggro then tree of redemption makes a fine SB card as well.
I love the interaction that increasing savagery has with experiment one, however if you expect to see azorius charm in decent numbers at your lgs, then it's probably not that great of an idea.
I'm pretty sure some number of removal is needed somewhere in here. I get your plans to simply out class your opponents creatures and fight with domri, but personally I think you'll want some number of mizzium mortars/searing spear somewhere in the 75. maybe cut 1-2 increasing savagery for some mizzium mortars.
I like that Idea as well. I was debating whether I should cut 2 savagry and a land for 3 mortars/spears or just 2 and stay at 22 land. I also modified the sideboard.
I'm trying to put together a sideboarding strategy for the various matchups.
Against Esper I think I cut the mizzium mortars and one other card (if there are only 2 mortars) for the skullcracks. Not sure what that other card should be. I also want to bring in naturalize for blind obedience but again I don't know what to cut in games 2 and 3
Against RDW/other red aggro I cut the rancors for volcanic strength
Jund is the matchup I'm most unsure how to sideboard. I think I want to bring in Volcanic Strength, but I also need to deal with olivia, so I was thinking both gruul charm and needle.
Against bant, I think I just bring in skullcracks, but I'm not sure what to cut. Maybe mortars.
Against Aristocrats, I think its just swaping mizziums for gruul charms
The mana base might need fine tuning. The numbers of mountains and forests need some correction as there are times where I need mountains for boars and forests for geists. The sideboard might also need some work. Naturalize and needle are there for blind obedience and plansewalkers, olivia, and innistrad special lands. Not sure if they are right.
I'm looking for ideas to Gruul myself, refining my superfriends deck: have you ever thought of running 3 or 4 Evolving Wilds as a 1rst turn play?
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Bringing Turbo-Hydra back to Standard...
:symg::symr::symb: Domri Jund
This is what I played for about 3 hours this evening against my friend. He was testing out a BUG combo, I think, that didn't really work out for him. Then he switched to a Naya Zoo that ended up being way more consistent.
I'm the guy that Doc was playing against last night, and since he had to go and be all sportsmanlike and comment on how my decks looked from his half of the table (in the Naya Zoo thread), I feel compelled to come in here and do the same for him and all you other Rx aggro players.
The first trip down Pain Lane went like this....
He is correct: I played a Standard-legal BUG Elf deck against him for the first half of the night, and it was a nightmare. The deck couldn't get off of the ground fast enough to compete with the burn and the early threats that he dropped, specifically the Ash Zealots and the Stromkirk Nobles. A 2/2 body with haste and first strike put me into a position where I had to throw my mana dorks under the bus if I wanted to have enough life to live through the burn (Arbor Elf is only 1/1; Elvish Archdruid is 2/2, but has no answer to first strike), and the 1/1 with counter growth of the Noble put me in a position where I had to respond on the first round, or waste control later in the match, like a Rapid Hybridization followed by a Cyclonic Rift, which I much rather would have used on the Falkenrath Aristocrat. Additionally, it was very rare that I had both of those spells in my hand and the mana required to spend two U on them, so I ended up getting hit by a 3/3 token at least once.
Now, granted: a chunk of that was due to the fact that my mana base was all jacked up. I wasn't drawing enough of the right mana, and too much of stuff that I didn't need. In any case, the threats came out of that Rx deck in a quick-damned-hurry, and a major reason why I wasn't getting the mana I needed was because my dorks were getting burned right off the board as fast as I could play them. Even sitting on some of them for a round and eating damage from attacks was a losing proposition because by the time I had something to play, Doc was burning the dorks up (or burning me to death).
The Falkenrath Aristocrat was problematic indeed. The deck I was playing had no answer to flyers, and Abrupt Decay wasn't enough. Rapid Hybridization was good, but again--not enough mana to get the 3/3 token off the board in a timely fashion. The most effective answer I had was Evil Twin, but again, I couldn't get the mana on the board to drop the card and use the special ability in the same turn, and ended up eating four anyway.
Anyway, I guess the point is that the deck works fast. I lost a lot, so I can't really pinpoint where the deck doesn't work regarding it's contest against a BUG deck. I suppose the above is just a catalog of how it does work; all those things I listed above are effective and infuriating.
Now, about that Naya Zoo deck....
This was a much more competitive deck against Rx aggro--the threats came out of the deck faster; the mana dorking happened right away without chance for interruption, mainly because Burning-Tree Emissary drops for, in essence, free. So I could create a competitive board presence as quickly as Doc could, which seemed to be problematic. For instance: Doc drops a Stromkirk Noble and an Ash Zealot. He attacks with the AZ and then passes priority to me, and I've got WRG available to me. That let's me drop a BTE and a Loxodon Smiter in the same turn, which stalls Doc's ground attack right out of the gate and gives me power advantage on the board. Hell, even if I've just got GG or any combination of G and R, I can put down BTE and another BTE, or a Flinthoof Boar, or anything else in the deck that takes one or the other.
The best threat he had was Falkenrath Aristocrat, which got crowned with an Oblivion Ring since I had no real way to deal with aerial threats. Granted, there was plenty of burn in his deck to deal with some of my threats, but if I could eat two spells with one creature, just so he could clear the board to attack, I consider that a win, especially when my deck moves just as quickly.
Another trick was to Prey Upon the Aristocrat, basically (it was actually Domri Rade's -2 ability). It only has one toughness, so any ol' chump could go under the bus, and it was doubly bad if I used a Boros Reckoner because then I would kill the Aristocrat and whatever other creature I needed out of the way. I think the best response to that would have been to take out Domri as quickly as possible. For the most part Doc ignored Domri, and that seemed like a bad idea--I was allowed to maybe draw a card but at the very least plan ahead with my mana since I was looking at my top-deck, or I was allowed to eliminate creatures from the board.
Silverblade Paladin never got to see much action, but I did combo up a BTE and a Nearheath Pilgrim at one point while Doc had an Aristocrat on the board. Every round he'd attack; every round I'd attack. That was a war of attrition I was winning--he loses 4 life a turn, I lose nothing, once net gains are considered. So, that was another situation where the Nearheath Pilgrim should have been a priority. Even without burn, it may have been worth it to consider a block against the Pilgrim when looking at the long-term game effect: without the pilgrim I deal 2 damage a turn, Doc deals no damage. With the pilgrim, I deal 4 a turn and take no damage anyway. So, who knows. I don't know what his hand looked like or what other considerations had to be made.
Lastly, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben was a problem. It was guaranteed to draw fire, and perhaps a round slower than usual. So, it just gummed up the works of the burn factory.
In conclusion....
What were insurmountable threats against the BUG deck were standard fare for the Naya Zoo. I would say the biggest problem I had was making sure to keep pace and to manage my mana correctly. Which is not to say that Doc and the Rx aggro deck he was piloting were not responsible for his wins. If I misplayed, that was a death sentence 95% of the time, usually within the round I made the mistake.
The main weakness I see, however, is that the creatures lack synergy with one another. They function well as individuals, but have no manner of increasing each other's power (and, for it's part, the deck relied heavily on the Aristocrat coming in and finishing out the game, and when that didn't happen, there was trouble). The only exception to that is the Falkenrath Aristocrat and the various sacrifices that could be made to it. On my side of the board, however, is a lot of soulbond and cheap buffs that turned small creatures into ones that the Rx aggro couldn't handle.
For instance: in one scenario I was able to drop two BTEs, a Rancor, and tap Slayers' Stronghold for its buff in one turn. I spent 4 mana to drop a 2/2 body and a 6/2 body with haste and vigilance in one turn. That's nuts. Again I point to the Nearheath combination as well. They were two chumps, but then they became chumps with lifelink. That's a big deal. There was no similar interplay among the creatures the Rx aggro. The Zealot would come out and just be a zealot; the Noble came out and that was all it was. Which, while useful alone, didn't always fare well against the incremental power gains on my half of the table.
I hope that analysis helps. I know it's not all very specific, but it is how one opposing player was thinking during the games, and what his thoughts are afterwards.
I will admit to not using my dudes to attack Domri because I'm a bonehead. Perhaps if I had been paying less attention to your cats and more to the game we were playing...
But we were also not using the stack properly. Domri's -2 can't be interrupted once it begins resolving, but before that starts happening it uses the stack like everything else. So once you put the pit fight ability on the stack I can put Aristocrat's activated ability on the stack on top of it in response.
Well, good to know. Now that you phrase it like that, it makes more sense than what I was saying last night. Although, we only mis-managed it once (twice?). I think the cats had more to do with it.
I actually got the inspiration from KhaosDeckWins. What do you think about the SB? Would cutting thunderbolt and adding geistflame be worth it?
I'd only change the lone Mountain in the board and put Hellion Crucible in its place. My love for that land knows no bounds.
I like the single BlasAct. With Reckoner out, it has potential for maximum awesomeness.
Last I checked, people still played big dudes that could be used against them so I agree with the two Traitorous Bloods and the single Conscripts.
If you think that you may run into various Sphinx's Revelation decks, then I'd pack Skullcrack in the board over the Thunderbolt. However, being able to smash fearlessly into a Resto Angel or being able to kill an Olivia is pretty good so I think Thunderbolt still has some uses.
I'm really not sure about the thunderbolt and conscripts in the SB. Do you think it's ok to use geistflame nowadays as another instant speed removal?
sideboard suggestions are severely meta-dependant. Especially for a local LGS. If you expect a lot of restoration angel then thunderbolt could be a decent idea. if you expect a lot of humans aggro or R/x aggro then geistflame could easily make the 75 as well.
If you want good sideboarding suggestions then it would probably be best to give a general layout of the decks you plan on facing.
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Hey guys and gals long time reader first time poster here. First I just want to thank all of you for all the knowledge I've gained here.
This is the deck I'm planning on using for tomorrow's FNM and probably for game day Saturday depending on how it runs. I've played 4 FNMs with MRDW and always managed to top 8(2)/4(2), so I feel really good about the deck choice. This is the latest incarnation of the deck.
My card choices: Vexing Devil: I feel is slightly better than Stromkirk Noble because he'll either end up as a 4 damage for R or 4/3 for R. While Stromkirk Noble might only end up being 3 damage for R or a 3/3 as is my experience. Mugging: I have this instead of Pillar of Flame mostly due to my local meta that runs almost no zombies and also seeing the look on people's faces when I cast it and go in for red is priceless. Volcanic Strength: This card is main board for two reasons, 1)Loxodon Smiter and 2) My biggest opposition in my meta is Jund Midrange. Zealous Conscripts/Thundermaw Hellkite: My 5 drops is where I'm very uncertain about which to main and which to side. I was hoping that I could get some advice on this issue and some feed back on my card choices. Thanks in advance.
More green? I would really like to include ooze as the majority of players at my lgs play rdw or red/x and ooze is something you really don't want to see. Then again I want to consistently hit 2 red by t4 for the hellguys... Wishful thinking?
Vexing Devil: I feel is slightly better than Stromkirk Noble because he'll either end up as a 4 damage for R or 4/3 for R. While Stromkirk Noble might only end up being 3 damage for R or a 3/3 as is my experience.
Ok...the disease known as VD (cwutidid?) you can assume will typically be a 4 damage burn spell. If it isn't, your opponent will often have answers for it.
However, if you're assuming your Noble is going to grow to be a 3/3, then he'll have done 3 damage, plus, your opponent will either have to expend a card to answer it, or possibly trade...which is typically a 1:1. VD is a 1:0 for you.
There's other people who can explain this better, but I figured I'd take a shot at it. Think of it this way...if you've got a hand full of burn spells, are you chucking them at your opponent as fast as possible, or are you saving them to pick off your opponents creatures, allowing yours through? Vexing Devil is usually going to be a burn spell when you least want it to be, and a creature when you least want it to be.
Hey guys and gals long time reader first time poster here. First I just want to thank all of you for all the knowledge I've gained here.
This is the deck I'm planning on using for tomorrow's FNM and probably for game day Saturday depending on how it runs. I've played 4 FNMs with MRDW and always managed to top 8(2)/4(2), so I feel really good about the deck choice. This is the latest incarnation of the deck.
My card choices: Vexing Devil: I feel is slightly better than Stromkirk Noble because he'll either end up as a 4 damage for R or 4/3 for R. While Stromkirk Noble might only end up being 3 damage for R or a 3/3 as is my experience. Mugging: I have this instead of Pillar of Flame mostly due to my local meta that runs almost no zombies and also seeing the look on people's faces when I cast it and go in for red is priceless. Volcanic Strength: This card is main board for two reasons, 1)Loxodon Smiter and 2) My biggest opposition in my meta is Jund Midrange. Zealous Conscripts/Thundermaw Hellkite: My 5 drops is where I'm very uncertain about which to main and which to side. I was hoping that I could get some advice on this issue and some feed back on my card choices. Thanks in advance.
Welcome!
A couple of suggestions:
--If you are going to run 5-drops you may want to consider bumping to 24 land
--I won't beat a dead horse for long here, but Vexing Devil is unplayable in Standard. You can find volumes of discussion everywhere from the primer to pretty much every variant thread here if you search. Reader's Digest version is that in a lifegain-heavy meta, the 4 damage in the early game is nothing compared to your loss of board presence. If Noble gets in even twice, that's 3 damage and you still have a 3/3 on the board that they have to deal with. Any deck running Centaur Healer and/or Thragtusk is going to take your 4 damage and celebrate over the fact that you just wasted a turn.
--Skullcrack is a trap card for aggro red. It sounds great, but you have to have the card in-hand with mana open when they play lifegain; that's control-style draw-go mentality, not aggro. We can't afford to wait around for something to happen unless we are playing the control deck, and we should never be playing the control deck in MU's that have lifegain (UWx control and Gx(x) midrange).
Just some points to consider...red thrives on efficiency and card value, and these slots can be better utilized to further your game.
Ok...the disease known as VD (cwutidid?) you can assume will typically be a 4 damage burn spell. If it isn't, your opponent will often have answers for it.
However, if you're assuming your Noble is going to grow to be a 3/3, then he'll have done 3 damage, plus, your opponent will either have to expend a card to answer it, or possibly trade...which is typically a 1:1. VD is a 1:0 for you.
There's other people who can explain this better, but I figured I'd take a shot at it. Think of it this way...if you've got a hand full of burn spells, are you chucking them at your opponent as fast as possible, or are you saving them to pick off your opponents creatures, allowing yours through? Vexing Devil is usually going to be a burn spell when you least want it to be, and a creature when you least want it to be.
HA!
iducwutudid
And I see your point about a 1:1 vs 1:0, I think I'll go back to the 4 Stromkirk Noble
Welcome!
A couple of suggestions:
--If you are going to run 5-drops you may want to consider bumping to 24 land
--I won't beat a dead horse for long here, but Vexing Devil is unplayable in Standard. You can find volumes of discussion everywhere from the primer to pretty much every variant thread here if you search. Reader's Digest version is that in a lifegain-heavy meta, the 4 damage in the early game is nothing compared to your loss of board presence. If Noble gets in even twice, that's 3 damage and you still have a 3/3 on the board that they have to deal with. Any deck running Centaur Healer and/or Thragtusk is going to take your 4 damage and celebrate over the fact that you just wasted a turn.
--Skullcrack is a trap card for aggro red. It sounds great, but you have to have the card in-hand with mana open when they play lifegain; that's control-style draw-go mentality, not aggro. We can't afford to wait around for something to happen unless we are playing the control deck, and we should never be playing the control deck in MU's that have lifegain (UWx control and Gx(x) midrange).
Just some points to consider...red thrives on efficiency and card value, and these slots can be better utilized to further your game.
I've seen many list that only run 23 lands when they main just two 5 drops and I've had no problems bringing out my dudes and hitting my land drops. I was hoping someone could advise me on which is better to have in main between Zealous Conscripts and ThunderMaw Hellkite. As for Skullcrack I can see myself having less of them. I was thinking of taking one out for another Volcanic Strength. Though there are two Esper Control decks floating around in my FNM and those Sphinx's Revelation can be brutal.
Mugging: I have this instead of Pillar of Flame mostly due to my local meta that runs almost no zombies and also seeing the look on people's faces when I cast it and go in for red is priceless.
Mugging you say? I'm a fan of that idea. Makes it useful to play on dudes Pillar of Flame would otherwise be wasted on. Good call there. I wish I'd thought of it too.
What creature type do you usually declare when you drop Cavern of Souls? I almost always paste "vampires" to mine, "humans" if I draw the second one, to make sure I can stick Falkenrath Aristocrat. But I'm curious to know how other people run it too.
As far as I've been able to test, I can usually swing for game with a turn 5 Zealous Conscripts + whatever she steals. That said, I'm usually preceeding that with a turn 4 Aristocrat. Turn 4/Turn 5 is a hypothetical best case scenario, obviously. And if I can't win off the Conscripts I basically just have a regular old 3/3 body that I always end up feeling like I overpaid for. Hellkite, at least, is a 5/5 with evasion all the time.
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Its nice to have a defender at home for close dicey games as well. I remember one game on turn 5 I dropped BTE and recycled its mana for Thundermaw Hellkite. The home defender saved me the game and allowed me to do the damage I needed to do with TMHK both on Turn 5 and Turn 6.
Anyway it has sideboard aplications too. Pyreheart Wolf, Glaring Spotlight, etc.
Glaring Spotlight is good for its sac as well. I'm going to strike Hellion Crucible from the list for the moment but I have it in my deck of cards if needed. I'd rather have the 7 cards and no need to mulligan. it also announces to my enemy I have nothing better I can do and sometimes Id rather them think my land I'm holding is a searing spear.
Whats really interesting is how much Im liking Legion Loyalist and Boros Reckoner. Everyone is liking the Reckoner for obvious reasons but Im seeing more and more people spend removal on Legion Loyalist in fear of what he'll do which allows me to play my bigger cards with much less fear.
RGWNaya BurnRGW+++RGWKiki ComboRGW
UGInfectUG+++++++++.++++++++UGMerfolkUG
GGNykthos WaveGG++++++++++GGStompyGG
BRVampiresBR+++++++.+++++++BRGoblinsBR
WGBogglesWG+++++++++++++CRSkred RedCR
UBRGDredgeUBRG++++++++++BB8 RackBB
URWJeskaiURW+++.++UBRGrixis DelverUBR
URStormUR++++++++UWGBant CompanyUWG
WUBRGHumansWUBRG+CCEldrazi TronCC
from your argument on BTE, it seems to me that you just want a 1 drop 2/2. cackler seems to do the same thing in all the situations you mentioned while also being a T1 play.
hellion crucible doesn't signal that you have nothing better to do. For instance if you're in a situation where you're waiting for them to play something so you can spear it and they don't, you're not just passing turn without making use of your mana. You can still bluff spear, but if they call your bluff and play through it then you still have options.
Modern:
Twinning End
Commander:
Mayael the Anema
4x Falkenrath Aristocrat
4x Stromkirk Noble
4x Ash Zealot
4x Rakdos Cackler
4x Fervent Cathar
3x Boros Reckoner
1x Zealous Conscripts
4x Pillar of Flame
4x Searing Spear
3x Brimstone Volley
2x Thatcher Revolt
Lands (23)
4x Dragonskull Summit
4x Blood Crypt
4x Cavern of Souls
2x Swamp
9x Mountain
Man, those Aristocrats are hardcore. I know that's not news to anyone else, but I'm still kinda new to Standard competitive play. And Thatcher Revolt is included almost strictly to feed Aristocrat.
I keep going back and forth on Fervent Cathar and Knight of Infamy. Would have been great versus my friend's Naya deck to play the Knight, but I didn't want to get lulled into a false sense of what does and doesn't work because of Knight's Protection. Cathar screws with my curve, but eliminating a blocker was always nice.
Turn 4 Aristocrat, turn 5 Zealous Conscripts, steal the opponent's fatty... that was almost always game right there. Nonetheless, I have this Thundermaw Hellkite I'm probably going to swap the Conscripts out for. Because if I can't swing for game off Conscripts + what she steals she's just a 3/3 body that cost me 5 to cast. Thundermaw at least is a 5/5 flyer all the time.
Cavern of Souls is great, and I'm not knocking it, but I honestly had more trouble with O-Ring than getting an Aristocrat to stick. And tapping for colorless almost never helped. Plus, I'm pretty sure once I dropped a Cavern and declared "vampires", he started sitting on his O-Rings. I'm not convinced I won't keep it around, just probably not as a set of 4.
Boros Reckoner is great. Fishing out 3 red mana sources fast enough to get him in play in time to be a deterrent... not so much. Maybe if I went down to 2x Caverns and 11x Mountains I'd have an easier time of it.
Here's the list I've been running.
4 Arbor elf
4 Burning-Tree emissary
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Experiment One
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Strangleroot Geist
3 Wolfir Silverheart
4 Rancor
Spells
4 Increasing Savagery
Planeswalkers
3 Domri Rade
Lands
4 Stomping Ground
4 Rootbound Crag
5 Mountain
9 Forest
4 Skullcrack
4 Volcanic Strength
4 Naturalize
3 Pithing Needle
The mana base might need fine tuning. The numbers of mountains and forests need some correction as there are times where I need mountains for boars and forests for geists. The sideboard might also need some work. Naturalize and needle are there for blind obedience and plansewalkers, olivia, and innistrad special lands. Not sure if they are right.
I like it. If you expect a lot of aggro then tree of redemption makes a fine SB card as well.
I love the interaction that increasing savagery has with experiment one, however if you expect to see azorius charm in decent numbers at your lgs, then it's probably not that great of an idea.
I'm pretty sure some number of removal is needed somewhere in here. I get your plans to simply out class your opponents creatures and fight with domri, but personally I think you'll want some number of mizzium mortars/searing spear somewhere in the 75. maybe cut 1-2 increasing savagery for some mizzium mortars.
Modern:
Twinning End
Commander:
Mayael the Anema
4x rakdos cackler
2x stonewright
4x ash zealot
3x Lightning Mauler
3x Gore-House Chainwalker
3x Pyreheart wolf
3x Boros Reckoner
4x Hellrider
4x pillar of flame
4x searing spear
20x mountain
1x blasphemous act
3x flames of the firebrand
2x hound of griselbrand
1x mountain
2x traitorous blood
2x thunderbolt
1x zealous conscript
I'm really not sure about the thunderbolt and conscripts in the SB. Do you think it's ok to use geistflame nowadays as another instant speed removal?
—Jaya Ballard, task mage
I am with the Fires of Salvation
Looks solid. I run the almost the exact same 60.
I actually got the inspiration from KhaosDeckWins. What do you think about the SB? Would cutting thunderbolt and adding geistflame be worth it?
—Jaya Ballard, task mage
I am with the Fires of Salvation
I like that Idea as well. I was debating whether I should cut 2 savagry and a land for 3 mortars/spears or just 2 and stay at 22 land. I also modified the sideboard.
My list wold look like this
4 Arbor elf
4 Burning-Tree emissary
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Experiment One
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Strangleroot Geist
3 Wolfir Silverheart
4 Rancor
Spells
2 Increasing Savagery
3 Mizzium Mortars
Planeswalkers
3 Domri Rade
Lands
4 Stomping Ground
4 Rootbound Crag
5 Mountain
8 Forest
I'm trying to put together a sideboarding strategy for the various matchups.
Against Esper I think I cut the mizzium mortars and one other card (if there are only 2 mortars) for the skullcracks. Not sure what that other card should be. I also want to bring in naturalize for blind obedience but again I don't know what to cut in games 2 and 3
Against RDW/other red aggro I cut the rancors for volcanic strength
Jund is the matchup I'm most unsure how to sideboard. I think I want to bring in Volcanic Strength, but I also need to deal with olivia, so I was thinking both gruul charm and needle.
Against bant, I think I just bring in skullcracks, but I'm not sure what to cut. Maybe mortars.
Against Aristocrats, I think its just swaping mizziums for gruul charms
Any other suggestions?
I'm looking for ideas to Gruul myself, refining my superfriends deck: have you ever thought of running 3 or 4 Evolving Wilds as a 1rst turn play?
:symg::symr::symb: Domri Jund
I'm the guy that Doc was playing against last night, and since he had to go and be all sportsmanlike and comment on how my decks looked from his half of the table (in the Naya Zoo thread), I feel compelled to come in here and do the same for him and all you other Rx aggro players.
The first trip down Pain Lane went like this....
Now, granted: a chunk of that was due to the fact that my mana base was all jacked up. I wasn't drawing enough of the right mana, and too much of stuff that I didn't need. In any case, the threats came out of that Rx deck in a quick-damned-hurry, and a major reason why I wasn't getting the mana I needed was because my dorks were getting burned right off the board as fast as I could play them. Even sitting on some of them for a round and eating damage from attacks was a losing proposition because by the time I had something to play, Doc was burning the dorks up (or burning me to death).
The Falkenrath Aristocrat was problematic indeed. The deck I was playing had no answer to flyers, and Abrupt Decay wasn't enough. Rapid Hybridization was good, but again--not enough mana to get the 3/3 token off the board in a timely fashion. The most effective answer I had was Evil Twin, but again, I couldn't get the mana on the board to drop the card and use the special ability in the same turn, and ended up eating four anyway.
Anyway, I guess the point is that the deck works fast. I lost a lot, so I can't really pinpoint where the deck doesn't work regarding it's contest against a BUG deck. I suppose the above is just a catalog of how it does work; all those things I listed above are effective and infuriating.
Now, about that Naya Zoo deck....
The best threat he had was Falkenrath Aristocrat, which got crowned with an Oblivion Ring since I had no real way to deal with aerial threats. Granted, there was plenty of burn in his deck to deal with some of my threats, but if I could eat two spells with one creature, just so he could clear the board to attack, I consider that a win, especially when my deck moves just as quickly.
Another trick was to Prey Upon the Aristocrat, basically (it was actually Domri Rade's -2 ability). It only has one toughness, so any ol' chump could go under the bus, and it was doubly bad if I used a Boros Reckoner because then I would kill the Aristocrat and whatever other creature I needed out of the way. I think the best response to that would have been to take out Domri as quickly as possible. For the most part Doc ignored Domri, and that seemed like a bad idea--I was allowed to maybe draw a card but at the very least plan ahead with my mana since I was looking at my top-deck, or I was allowed to eliminate creatures from the board.
Silverblade Paladin never got to see much action, but I did combo up a BTE and a Nearheath Pilgrim at one point while Doc had an Aristocrat on the board. Every round he'd attack; every round I'd attack. That was a war of attrition I was winning--he loses 4 life a turn, I lose nothing, once net gains are considered. So, that was another situation where the Nearheath Pilgrim should have been a priority. Even without burn, it may have been worth it to consider a block against the Pilgrim when looking at the long-term game effect: without the pilgrim I deal 2 damage a turn, Doc deals no damage. With the pilgrim, I deal 4 a turn and take no damage anyway. So, who knows. I don't know what his hand looked like or what other considerations had to be made.
Lastly, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben was a problem. It was guaranteed to draw fire, and perhaps a round slower than usual. So, it just gummed up the works of the burn factory.
In conclusion....
The main weakness I see, however, is that the creatures lack synergy with one another. They function well as individuals, but have no manner of increasing each other's power (and, for it's part, the deck relied heavily on the Aristocrat coming in and finishing out the game, and when that didn't happen, there was trouble). The only exception to that is the Falkenrath Aristocrat and the various sacrifices that could be made to it. On my side of the board, however, is a lot of soulbond and cheap buffs that turned small creatures into ones that the Rx aggro couldn't handle.
For instance: in one scenario I was able to drop two BTEs, a Rancor, and tap Slayers' Stronghold for its buff in one turn. I spent 4 mana to drop a 2/2 body and a 6/2 body with haste and vigilance in one turn. That's nuts. Again I point to the Nearheath combination as well. They were two chumps, but then they became chumps with lifelink. That's a big deal. There was no similar interplay among the creatures the Rx aggro. The Zealot would come out and just be a zealot; the Noble came out and that was all it was. Which, while useful alone, didn't always fare well against the incremental power gains on my half of the table.
I hope that analysis helps. I know it's not all very specific, but it is how one opposing player was thinking during the games, and what his thoughts are afterwards.
But we were also not using the stack properly. Domri's -2 can't be interrupted once it begins resolving, but before that starts happening it uses the stack like everything else. So once you put the pit fight ability on the stack I can put Aristocrat's activated ability on the stack on top of it in response.
I'd only change the lone Mountain in the board and put Hellion Crucible in its place. My love for that land knows no bounds.
I like the single BlasAct. With Reckoner out, it has potential for maximum awesomeness.
Last I checked, people still played big dudes that could be used against them so I agree with the two Traitorous Bloods and the single Conscripts.
If you think that you may run into various Sphinx's Revelation decks, then I'd pack Skullcrack in the board over the Thunderbolt. However, being able to smash fearlessly into a Resto Angel or being able to kill an Olivia is pretty good so I think Thunderbolt still has some uses.
sideboard suggestions are severely meta-dependant. Especially for a local LGS. If you expect a lot of restoration angel then thunderbolt could be a decent idea. if you expect a lot of humans aggro or R/x aggro then geistflame could easily make the 75 as well.
If you want good sideboarding suggestions then it would probably be best to give a general layout of the decks you plan on facing.
Modern:
Twinning End
Commander:
Mayael the Anema
8 Forest
6 Mountain
4 Stomping Grounds
4 Rootbound Crag
2 Kessig Wolf Run
28 Creatures
4 Experiment One
4 Dryad Millitant
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Predator Ooze
4 Hellrider
4 Thundermaw Hellkite
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Rancor
4 Searing Spear
15 Sideboard
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Rancor
2 Electrickery
3 Ranger's Guile
2 Volcanic Strength
4 Naturalize
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22 Mountains
1 Cavern of Souls
Creatures 27
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Vexing Devil
2 Stonewright
3 Lightning Mauler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Hellrider
2 Zealous Conscripts
4 Mugging
4 Searing Spear
2 Volcanic Strength
1 Volcanic Strength
4 Skullcrack
4 Mizzium Mortars
2 Traitorous Blood
2 Hound of Griselbrand
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
Hey guys and gals long time reader first time poster here. First I just want to thank all of you for all the knowledge I've gained here.
This is the deck I'm planning on using for tomorrow's FNM and probably for game day Saturday depending on how it runs. I've played 4 FNMs with MRDW and always managed to top 8(2)/4(2), so I feel really good about the deck choice. This is the latest incarnation of the deck.
My card choices:
Vexing Devil: I feel is slightly better than Stromkirk Noble because he'll either end up as a 4 damage for R or 4/3 for R. While Stromkirk Noble might only end up being 3 damage for R or a 3/3 as is my experience.
Mugging: I have this instead of Pillar of Flame mostly due to my local meta that runs almost no zombies and also seeing the look on people's faces when I cast it and go in for red is priceless.
Volcanic Strength: This card is main board for two reasons, 1)Loxodon Smiter and 2) My biggest opposition in my meta is Jund Midrange.
Zealous Conscripts/Thundermaw Hellkite: My 5 drops is where I'm very uncertain about which to main and which to side. I was hoping that I could get some advice on this issue and some feed back on my card choices. Thanks in advance.
More green? I would really like to include ooze as the majority of players at my lgs play rdw or red/x and ooze is something you really don't want to see. Then again I want to consistently hit 2 red by t4 for the hellguys... Wishful thinking?
Ok...the disease known as VD (cwutidid?) you can assume will typically be a 4 damage burn spell. If it isn't, your opponent will often have answers for it.
However, if you're assuming your Noble is going to grow to be a 3/3, then he'll have done 3 damage, plus, your opponent will either have to expend a card to answer it, or possibly trade...which is typically a 1:1. VD is a 1:0 for you.
There's other people who can explain this better, but I figured I'd take a shot at it. Think of it this way...if you've got a hand full of burn spells, are you chucking them at your opponent as fast as possible, or are you saving them to pick off your opponents creatures, allowing yours through? Vexing Devil is usually going to be a burn spell when you least want it to be, and a creature when you least want it to be.
Welcome!
A couple of suggestions:
--If you are going to run 5-drops you may want to consider bumping to 24 land
--I won't beat a dead horse for long here, but Vexing Devil is unplayable in Standard. You can find volumes of discussion everywhere from the primer to pretty much every variant thread here if you search. Reader's Digest version is that in a lifegain-heavy meta, the 4 damage in the early game is nothing compared to your loss of board presence. If Noble gets in even twice, that's 3 damage and you still have a 3/3 on the board that they have to deal with. Any deck running
Centaur Healerand/or Thragtusk is going to take your 4 damage and celebrate over the fact that you just wasted a turn.--Skullcrack is a trap card for aggro red. It sounds great, but you have to have the card in-hand with mana open when they play lifegain; that's control-style draw-go mentality, not aggro. We can't afford to wait around for something to happen unless we are playing the control deck, and we should never be playing the control deck in MU's that have lifegain (UWx control and Gx(x) midrange).
Just some points to consider...red thrives on efficiency and card value, and these slots can be better utilized to further your game.
HA!
iducwutudid
And I see your point about a 1:1 vs 1:0, I think I'll go back to the 4 Stromkirk Noble
Thanks
Vexing Devil = no good. Okay
I've seen many list that only run 23 lands when they main just two 5 drops and I've had no problems bringing out my dudes and hitting my land drops. I was hoping someone could advise me on which is better to have in main between Zealous Conscripts and ThunderMaw Hellkite. As for Skullcrack I can see myself having less of them. I was thinking of taking one out for another Volcanic Strength. Though there are two Esper Control decks floating around in my FNM and those Sphinx's Revelation can be brutal.
Mugging you say? I'm a fan of that idea. Makes it useful to play on dudes Pillar of Flame would otherwise be wasted on. Good call there. I wish I'd thought of it too.
What creature type do you usually declare when you drop Cavern of Souls? I almost always paste "vampires" to mine, "humans" if I draw the second one, to make sure I can stick Falkenrath Aristocrat. But I'm curious to know how other people run it too.
As far as I've been able to test, I can usually swing for game with a turn 5 Zealous Conscripts + whatever she steals. That said, I'm usually preceeding that with a turn 4 Aristocrat. Turn 4/Turn 5 is a hypothetical best case scenario, obviously. And if I can't win off the Conscripts I basically just have a regular old 3/3 body that I always end up feeling like I overpaid for. Hellkite, at least, is a 5/5 with evasion all the time.