Zero. If you look at all my posts in the other simic threads you will see that I've been telling you to run gm and strangleroot. They are quite the powerful tag team. Kinda like a smaller resto tusk team. While not format defining they are the simics most powerful synergy. I have not lost to any deck that does not answer them somehow.
A "new" tech I have found is silklash spider. So broken in this deck. Protects against every playable flyer. And it's butt is big enough to survive combat against anything not comboed with paladin or bloodrushed. But it will always evolve everything you have.
I fall in and out with elusive. It's really really good sometimes while just meh a lot of the time.
No matter what the guildmage is always a 4 of. I tried playing less. Just so many games where I go wouldn't an extra couple of draws made me win even better or easier? Or a few more power would have swung that game around. I'm almost to the point of running a few copies of baby garruk to tutor for gm when I don't seem to be able to draw it. Did I mention how good strangleroot is if you can get a gm, itself, and garruk out? Every turn you can tutor for whatever creature you want and draw a card for doing so.
so i tried strangleroot geist in the deck, and really love what you mentioned with zameck guildmage. the isse i see is that undying is dead (lol...) with master biomancer out because there are a ton of counters on him. but i guess a late game 7/6 haste geist isnt horrible... more testing!
so i tried strangleroot geist in the deck, and really love what you mentioned with zameck guildmage. the isse i see is that undying is dead (lol...) with master biomancer out because there are a ton of counters on him. but i guess a late game 7/6 haste geist isnt horrible... more testing!
Yeah, in my testing you really don't care about the counters the Biomancer gives him. At that point he is just a big beater. Of course, you can remove counters for card draw if you want with Zameck Guildmage.
In my testing with Simic yesterday, the Fathom Mage turned out to be quite good. She rarely had a target on her head because she seems so insignificant until you suddenly start drawing cards like mad with a Guildmage out. I only played 2 Fathom Mage MD though.
I also played 2 Rancors MD. They were exceptional and necessary to break through defensive stalls. They can also be case on your Biomancer to make his power greater triggering even more ridiculous things when creatures ETB.
Gyre Sage into Smiter or Geist. Rancor and Wolfir are my only Biomancer pumps, but once either is on I can use Resto Angel to go to town especially with Gyre sage blinking out and back in to get a ton of counters making it easy to gain some serious advantage with Prime Speaker or Sphinx. Clone is one of those nice surprise cards I can do quite a bit with but may have to get cut.
havent had the chance yet, im still putting this together. in testing, im finding a split of zegana and fathom mage to be awesome, mage is crazy card draw, and zegana is a nice fat target- or a 15/15 unblockable if not dealt with (artful dodge)
i like your list! trouble is... it is neither simic nor wild defiance... im sure bant biomancer is a powerful deck, i was just trying to stick to simic...thanks for posting though!
Gyre Sage into Smiter or Geist. Rancor and Wolfir are my only Biomancer pumps, but once either is on I can use Resto Angel to go to town especially with Gyre sage blinking out and back in to get a ton of counters making it easy to gain some serious advantage with Prime Speaker or Sphinx. Clone is one of those nice surprise cards I can do quite a bit with but may have to get cut.
You're playing a very high curve. If you go this route you need some mana dorks. You have no 1cc creatures, and only 4 2cc creatures. 4 Avacyn's Pilgrim are necessary. As it is, you can only trigger the Gyre Sage at turn 3 at the earliest. This is not really competitive. I'd remove them altogether.
Gyre Sage into Smiter or Geist. Rancor and Wolfir are my only Biomancer pumps, but once either is on I can use Resto Angel to go to town especially with Gyre sage blinking out and back in to get a ton of counters making it easy to gain some serious advantage with Prime Speaker or Sphinx. Clone is one of those nice surprise cards I can do quite a bit with but may have to get cut.
I run a similar list, but i use 2 arbor elves and 4 avacyn's pilgrim. They work really well with your GoST and smiter, making it possible to drop them on turn 2. I dont have the extra sphynx's revs to put in my deck (also play esper control) so i use garruk primal hunter to draw cards, and pump out 5/5 tokens if a biomancer is out.
If you do decide to go the mana dork route, i would recommend a gavony township or 2.
how are the wolfir silverheart and the clones working out for you? They're 2 cards i strongly considered using, but didn't make the cut.
well congrats on the bant decks..but back to simic..here is my list....my sideboard is still in the works. I am basing it against aggro. Big unblockable creatures is the only thing ive seen that hurts aggro. I normally side out some of my 4 drops to try to keep up..this deck needs more first turn love..all i can think of is delver
well congrats on the bant decks..but back to simic..here is my list..I may drop a Biomancer for the last stalker..my sideboard is still in the works. I am basing it against aggro. Big unblockable creatures is the only thing ive seen that hurts aggro. I normally side out some of my 4 drops to try to keep up..this deck needs more first turn love..all i can think of is delver
Well, for turn 1, don't discount the Cloudfin Raptor. It can very quickly grow to a nice defender against aggro. Experient One is solid as well. I've been playing 4 and 3 respectively. Elusive Krasis is very solid against aggro, and it also unblockable. I think in an evolve deck you can get more mileage out of it. And 4x Strangleroot Geist seems necessary.
With Rapid Hybridization, on the play you can have incredible board presence by turn 3. T1: Raptor; T2: Raptor-evolve, Experiment One-evolve; T3: Geist-evolve everything, attack for 2, 2, 2, 2. End of opponent's turn, rapid hybridization on Geist, evolve as it comes back into play as a 3/2 and place 3/3 Frog Lizard in play. You now have 3/4 Raptor, 3/4 Raptor, 3/3 Experiment One (regenerateable), 3/2 Geist, and 3/3 Frog Lizard in play. Against control decks this is massive because T4 is often a sweeper turn, and the Rapid Hybridization at the end of their turn surprises them with the sudden board presence. It also happens far more often than you think--don't think of this as "Magic Christmas Land" because you can very easily have a start like this, JU give or take a few counters if you have Experiment Ones instead of Raptors. Just keep your Simic Charms handy, because they are certainly a necessary evil against Azorious Charm, although the charm is fairly weak against Geists and Thragtusks. The Zameck Guildmage can also get draw out of the counters before your creatures go bye-bye.
You also have a ton of mid-game presence with the Master Biomancer and Zameck Guildmage drawing cards. Fathom Mage is also solid as a 2x I think, and Thragtusk and Primordial Hydra can also put serious pressure on decks. I think people are just too scared at the moment to try Simic because it feels janky/fragile, but I think it is more resilient than people are giving it credit for.
I'm not a big fan of Wild Defiance or Artful Dodge. I think I'd rather just play Rancor (which can also boost your Master Biomancer in a pinch mid-game), Rapid Hybridization, and some more creatures MD. Maybe 2-3 Increasing Savagery--I've been playing Deadbridge Goliath to keep the pressure on in its place.
Cyclonic Rift over Aetherize perhaps? At least the Rift gives you a U/G out to Planeswalkers and other problem permanents.
Well, for turn 1, don't discount the Cloudfin Raptor. It can very quickly grow to a nice defender against aggro. Experient One is solid as well. I've been playing 4 and 3 respectively. Elusive Krasis is very solid against aggro, and it also unblockable. I think in an evolve deck you can get more mileage out of it. And 4x Strangleroot Geist seems necessary.
With Rapid Hybridization, on the play you can have incredible board presence by turn 3. T1: Raptor; T2: Raptor-evolve, Experiment One-evolve; T3: Geist-evolve everything, attack for 2, 2, 2, 2. End of opponent's turn, rapid hybridization on Geist, evolve as it comes back into play as a 3/2 and place 3/3 Frog Lizard in play. You now have 3/4 Raptor, 3/4 Raptor, 3/3 Experiment One (regenerateable), 3/2 Geist, and 3/3 Frog Lizard in play. Against Control this is massive because T4 is often a sweeper turn, and the Rapid Hybridization at the end of their turn surprises them with the sudden board presence. It also happens far more often than you think.
You also have a ton of mid-game presence with the Master Biomancer and Zameck Guildmage drawing cards. Fathom Mage is also solid as a 2x I think, and Thragtusk and Primordial Hydra can also put serious pressure on decks. I think people are just too scared at the moment to try Simic because it feels janky/fragile, but I think it is more resilient than people are giving it credit for.
I'm not a big fan of Wild Defiance or Artful Dodge. I think I'd rather just play Rancor (which can also boost your Master Biomancer in a pinch mid-game), Rapid Hybridization, and some more creatures MD. Maybe 2-3 Increasing Savagery--I've been playing Deadbridge Goliath to keep the pressure on in its place.
Cyclonic Rift over Aetherize perhaps? At least the Rift gives you a U/G out to Planeswalkers and other problem permanents.
I would really like to see ur version of the deck. Some of ur ideas sound great..I wouldnt have thought of rapiding my own creature..Not sure on the rift..aetherize can really hurt aggro. And since this deck doesnt really have a sweep without adding white.
here is an updated list with some advice from u..im liking experiment 1..not sue what to take out for it..arbor elf? or maybe the artful..but I dont want this deck to be all creatures..and being unblockable hurts.
I would really like to see ur version of the deck. Some of ur ideas sound great..I wouldnt have thought of rapiding my own creature..Not sure on the rift..aetherize can really hurt aggro. And since this deck doesnt really have a sweep without adding white.
here is an updated list with some advice from u..im liking experiment 1..not sue what to take out for it..arbor elf? or maybe the artful..but I dont want this deck to be all creatures..and being unblockable hurts.
I basically looked at Simic and thought to myself--what are it's strengths? To me, on paper its strengths are that it can be fast aggro while still maintaining an incredible mid-game aggro presence thanks to the Master Biomancer.
Most fast aggro decks run out of steam during mid-game as they are limited to just a few creatures with some pop potential. Simic aggro decks have incredible staying power thanks to the Biomancer--your weenies all come in as fatties mid-game after sweeps/removal and you can draw cards. So, with this in mind, I figured the strength of the deck is to go all-in aggro creatures in the MD, and then adjust out of the SB. Due to Simic's card draw, you can keep drawing solid creatures. I'm still questioning whether splashing white or black could be stronger, but that's really a different deck.
Generally, most decks are forced to block/remove our creatures so we can generally keep up with fast aggro well enough early. And we can very quickly have creatures get out of burn range by the time midrange comes around (don't fall into the trap of attacking or blocking with Master Biomancers unless necessary thanks to Azorious Charm). And, very often I found my creatures were just under Selesnya Charm range too.
However, creatures like Thundermaw Hellkite, Olivia Voldaren and Falkenrath Aristocrat can give us trouble. To those decks I say, have fun with my SB card--Silklash Spider. It's a great evolve creature and it will neuter those creatures fast.
With the curve above, I generally have had pretty good results without much ramp. The Gyre Sages usually don't get targeted with removal, so I often get some ramp out of them to cast things a bit earlier. Also, they provide another evolve creature in the 2CC spot. I tried to make sure the evolve curve was solid in the deck at all times. However, I could see dropping the Gyre Sages for more Elusive Krasis or more Thragtusk MD.
You could also just go with 4 Rapid Hybridization and drop Simic Charms for G1. That often results in the most nut draws, and Rapid Hybridization can deal with Boros Reckoner and other problem creatures when not indestructible.
The SB is very meta dependent. Against Esper Control, Garruk, Predator Ooze, Orb, and Negates are useful, and you can often run over them in G1.
You could play Increasing Savagery over Deadbridge Goliath...but that doesn't help you evolve. Deadbridge is another board clogger and you can scavenge with it effectively. I might consider just playing 2 more Thragtusks instead of Deadbridge though.
I basically looked at Simic and thought to myself--what are it's strengths? To me, on paper its strengths are that it can be fast aggro while still maintaining an incredible mid-game aggro presence thanks to the Master Biomancer.
Most fast aggro decks run out of steam during mid-game as they are limited to just a few creatures with some pop potential. Simic aggro decks have incredible staying power thanks to the Biomancer--your weenies all come in as fatties mid-game after sweeps/removal and you can draw cards. So, with this in mind, I figured the strength of the deck is to go all-in aggro creatures in the MD, and then adjust out of the SB. Due to Simic's card draw, you can keep drawing solid creatures. I'm still questioning whether splashing white or black could be stronger, but that's really a different deck.
Generally, most decks are forced to block/remove our creatures so we can generally keep up with fast aggro well enough early. And we can very quickly have creatures get out of burn range by the time midrange comes around (don't fall into the trap of attacking or blocking with Master Biomancers unless necessary thanks to Azorious Charm). And, very often I found my creatures were just under Selesnya Charm range too.
However, creatures like Thundermaw Hellkite, Olivia Voldaren and Falkenrath Aristocrat can give us trouble. To those decks I say, have fun with my SB card--Silklash Spider. It's a great evolve creature and it will neuter those creatures fast.
With the curve above, I generally have had pretty good results without much ramp. The Gyre Sages usually don't get targeted with removal, so I often get some ramp out of them to cast things a bit earlier. Also, they provide another evolve creature in the 2CC spot. I tried to make sure the evolve curve was solid in the deck at all times. However, I could see dropping the Gyre Sages for more Elusive Krasis or more Thragtusk MD.
You could also just go with 4 Rapid Hybridization and drop Simic Charms for G1. That often results in the most nut draws, and Rapid Hybridization can deal with Boros Reckoner and other problem creatures when not indestructible.
The SB is very meta dependent. Against Esper Control, Garruk, Predator Ooze, Orb, and Negates are useful, and you can often run over them in G1.
You could play Increasing Savagery over Deadbridge Goliath...but that doesn't help you evolve. Deadbridge is another board clogger and you can scavenge with it effectively. I might consider just playing 2 more Thragtusks instead of Deadbridge though.
Thanks for taking the time to post and all the great advice..I think I will try this out for awhile..
Dodge is not important without the enchantment. Which I don't understand since this is the defiance thread. They have a few other simic threads floating on the first 2 pages that are defianceless.
It really sucks that they have not all been combined as I have basically said everything on this page already. Pointed out a set of raptors and exp 1 with 2-3 of the other is best, gave the idea of silklash spider, told you to run a set of guildmages, etc. Not tooting my own horn. Just saying we could be weeks ahead if we had a general simic thread. I am sure this could be the deck at some point but not if rdw (for instance) has 1 thread where everyone is working together and simic has 5 or whatever. I am not saying I am the simic expert or anything, although it is possible, but we really don't need to spend weeks to figure out points I made back then. Others have had helpful comments as well.
My next prediction is biomancer and the guildleader in combination is too slow. When the guildmage does the job almost as good for a lot less. Better in some cases. Lets see how long this one takes.
Dodge is not important without the enchantment. Which I don't understand since this is the defiance thread. They have a few other simic threads floating on the first 2 pages that are defianceless.
It really sucks that they have not all been combined as I have basically said everything on this page already. Pointed out a set of raptors and exp 1 with 2-3 of the other is best, gave the idea of silklash spider, told you to run a set of guildmages, etc. Not tooting my own horn. Just saying we could be weeks ahead if we had a general simic thread. I am sure this could be the deck at some point but not if rdw (for instance) has 1 thread where everyone is working together and simic has 5 or whatever. I am not saying I am the simic expert or anything, although it is possible, but we really don't need to spend weeks to figure out points I made back then. Others have had helpful comments as well.
My next prediction is biomancer and the guildleader in combination is too slow. When the guildmage does the job almost as good for a lot less. Better in some cases. Lets see how long this one takes.
I agree a Simic primer needs made. If it helps I put defiance in the sideboard. Otherwise sorry for posting in the wrong thread. I had to make my list more aggro to keep up with my meta. I disagree with dodge being unimportant. This deck has the potential with evolve and being unblockable to have big creatures quick that they cant block. Aggro decks like boros don't do well when bigger creatures hit the board. As soon as u get out of the burn range its tough. I feel the main list in this thread is good..but clouded up with way too many 4 drops. I play tested it several times and continued to side out my higher cost for lower to keep up.
Dodge is not important without the enchantment. Which I don't understand since this is the defiance thread. They have a few other simic threads floating on the first 2 pages that are defianceless.
It really sucks that they have not all been combined as I have basically said everything on this page already. Pointed out a set of raptors and exp 1 with 2-3 of the other is best, gave the idea of silklash spider, told you to run a set of guildmages, etc. Not tooting my own horn. Just saying we could be weeks ahead if we had a general simic thread. I am sure this could be the deck at some point but not if rdw (for instance) has 1 thread where everyone is working together and simic has 5 or whatever. I am not saying I am the simic expert or anything, although it is possible, but we really don't need to spend weeks to figure out points I made back then. Others have had helpful comments as well.
My next prediction is biomancer and the guildleader in combination is too slow. When the guildmage does the job almost as good for a lot less. Better in some cases. Lets see how long this one takes.
Well, as you've probably noted from my posts in the all of the Simic threads, I agree with you. Zegana is nowhere to be found in any of my pure Simic lists. I think she is best in a Bant version where you are able to blink her. In general, though, I think Garruk, Primal Hunter is just a more useful card in most builds.
To me, trample is better than dodge, and Rancor doubles as an easy way to boost the power of your Master Biomancers in mid-game once you get there. The problem with adding too many creature dependent spells is that you are relying on having a creature on the board that stays on the board through an attack. With 4x Azorious Charm being played by Esper Control and UWR Tempo decks (and Snapcasters for even more uses!), that may make those cards fairly dead in hand. At least Rancor keeps popping back to your hand for further applications--and sometimes better applications.
I think you are actually noting an issue that we've both stated at various times--an issue with Simic is that it can go in so many different directions. The Evolve mechanic can be fast aggro or mid-range, and it can be further splashed in any of the remaining three colors for value.
agreed that a simic primer needs to be made. this deck revolves around wild defiance, but people are posting bant lists and lists without defiance at all... i know most people dont think defiance is viable, but that IS what this thread is about lol...
thanks to everyone who has posted here though, there has been a lot of good thoughts mentioned here. Tog, you working on that primer yet?
I would do the primer but currently unable as I only have a POS cell with no comp access. Also the reason I don't post many deck lists. Fairly sure the community would get behind the deck though. My version smashes aggro and does well against control.
Honestly Zegana makes me nervous in decks that can get huge creatures. You have to worry you might milling yourself to death with it if you're drawing over half your deck in a single drop.
Honestly Zegana makes me nervous in decks that can get huge creatures. You have to worry you might milling yourself to death with it if you're drawing over half your deck in a single drop.
By the time you're even close to that point, you've probably should have won.
You probably should drop her as soon as you can to draw 6-8 cards? Even if you drew 10 on turn 10, you shouldn't even be halfway through your deck unless you're running additional draw or getting milled. (And how many decks mills in standard?)
yeah. honestly, drawing just two with her is fine. idk! thats why i runthree-four in my current list, because at worst she is 2 cards and a body i can return to my hand and recast with simic charm, and at best on t5ish, she is 15 cards drawn, a 15/15, and likely a 15/15 unblockable the next turn if she sticks, via artful dodge. even decent playing one when one is already in play i think, because the legend rule lets it hit play before being sent to the yard (so card draw still happens- like i said, i think...)
so i tried strangleroot geist in the deck, and really love what you mentioned with zameck guildmage. the isse i see is that undying is dead (lol...) with master biomancer out because there are a ton of counters on him. but i guess a late game 7/6 haste geist isnt horrible... more testing!
also thought of some lolz with biomancer and fungal sprouting
Yeah, in my testing you really don't care about the counters the Biomancer gives him. At that point he is just a big beater. Of course, you can remove counters for card draw if you want with Zameck Guildmage.
In my testing with Simic yesterday, the Fathom Mage turned out to be quite good. She rarely had a target on her head because she seems so insignificant until you suddenly start drawing cards like mad with a Guildmage out. I only played 2 Fathom Mage MD though.
I also played 2 Rancors MD. They were exceptional and necessary to break through defensive stalls. They can also be case on your Biomancer to make his power greater triggering even more ridiculous things when creatures ETB.
Standard Decks
WR Boros Heroic
bioshift. Whoa. maybe only as a 2of, but whoa.
4 Gyre Sage
4 Loxodon Smiter
2 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Master Biomancer
4 Restoration Angel
3 Wolfir Silverheart
2 Clone
4 Thragtusk
2 Prime Speaker Zegana
4 Rancor
3 Sphinx's Revelation
Lands:
4 Breeding Pool
4 Hinterland Harbor
3 Sunpetal Grove
4 Temple Garden
3 Glacial Fortress
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Island
2 Forest
Gyre Sage into Smiter or Geist. Rancor and Wolfir are my only Biomancer pumps, but once either is on I can use Resto Angel to go to town especially with Gyre sage blinking out and back in to get a ton of counters making it easy to gain some serious advantage with Prime Speaker or Sphinx. Clone is one of those nice surprise cards I can do quite a bit with but may have to get cut.
havent had the chance yet, im still putting this together. in testing, im finding a split of zegana and fathom mage to be awesome, mage is crazy card draw, and zegana is a nice fat target- or a 15/15 unblockable if not dealt with (artful dodge)
i like your list! trouble is... it is neither simic nor wild defiance... im sure bant biomancer is a powerful deck, i was just trying to stick to simic...thanks for posting though!
You're playing a very high curve. If you go this route you need some mana dorks. You have no 1cc creatures, and only 4 2cc creatures. 4 Avacyn's Pilgrim are necessary. As it is, you can only trigger the Gyre Sage at turn 3 at the earliest. This is not really competitive. I'd remove them altogether.
I run a similar list, but i use 2 arbor elves and 4 avacyn's pilgrim. They work really well with your GoST and smiter, making it possible to drop them on turn 2. I dont have the extra sphynx's revs to put in my deck (also play esper control) so i use garruk primal hunter to draw cards, and pump out 5/5 tokens if a biomancer is out.
If you do decide to go the mana dork route, i would recommend a gavony township or 2.
how are the wolfir silverheart and the clones working out for you? They're 2 cards i strongly considered using, but didn't make the cut.
4 Arbor Elf
2 Strangleroot Geist
2 Gyre Sage
4 Invisible Stalker
3 Zameck Guildmage
2 Fathom Mage
3 Master Biomancer
2 Prime Speaker Zegana
4 Artful Dodge
3 Wild Defiance
4 Increasing Savagery
4 Simic Charm
Lands: 23
4 Breeding Pool
4 Hinterland Harbor
3 Cavern of Souls
6 Forest
6 Island
1 Witchbane Orb
2 AEtherize
2 Negate
2 Rapid Hybridization
3 Pit Fight
3 Elusive Krasis
2 Talrand, Sky Summoner
Standard Decks
WR Boros Heroic
Well, for turn 1, don't discount the Cloudfin Raptor. It can very quickly grow to a nice defender against aggro. Experient One is solid as well. I've been playing 4 and 3 respectively. Elusive Krasis is very solid against aggro, and it also unblockable. I think in an evolve deck you can get more mileage out of it. And 4x Strangleroot Geist seems necessary.
With Rapid Hybridization, on the play you can have incredible board presence by turn 3. T1: Raptor; T2: Raptor-evolve, Experiment One-evolve; T3: Geist-evolve everything, attack for 2, 2, 2, 2. End of opponent's turn, rapid hybridization on Geist, evolve as it comes back into play as a 3/2 and place 3/3 Frog Lizard in play. You now have 3/4 Raptor, 3/4 Raptor, 3/3 Experiment One (regenerateable), 3/2 Geist, and 3/3 Frog Lizard in play. Against control decks this is massive because T4 is often a sweeper turn, and the Rapid Hybridization at the end of their turn surprises them with the sudden board presence. It also happens far more often than you think--don't think of this as "Magic Christmas Land" because you can very easily have a start like this, JU give or take a few counters if you have Experiment Ones instead of Raptors. Just keep your Simic Charms handy, because they are certainly a necessary evil against Azorious Charm, although the charm is fairly weak against Geists and Thragtusks. The Zameck Guildmage can also get draw out of the counters before your creatures go bye-bye.
You also have a ton of mid-game presence with the Master Biomancer and Zameck Guildmage drawing cards. Fathom Mage is also solid as a 2x I think, and Thragtusk and Primordial Hydra can also put serious pressure on decks. I think people are just too scared at the moment to try Simic because it feels janky/fragile, but I think it is more resilient than people are giving it credit for.
I'm not a big fan of Wild Defiance or Artful Dodge. I think I'd rather just play Rancor (which can also boost your Master Biomancer in a pinch mid-game), Rapid Hybridization, and some more creatures MD. Maybe 2-3 Increasing Savagery--I've been playing Deadbridge Goliath to keep the pressure on in its place.
Cyclonic Rift over Aetherize perhaps? At least the Rift gives you a U/G out to Planeswalkers and other problem permanents.
I would really like to see ur version of the deck. Some of ur ideas sound great..I wouldnt have thought of rapiding my own creature..Not sure on the rift..aetherize can really hurt aggro. And since this deck doesnt really have a sweep without adding white.
here is an updated list with some advice from u..im liking experiment 1..not sue what to take out for it..arbor elf? or maybe the artful..but I dont want this deck to be all creatures..and being unblockable hurts.
4 Arbor Elf
3 Strangleroot Geist
3 Cloudfin Raptor
4 Invisible Stalker
3 Zameck Guildmage
2 Fathom Mage
4 Master Biomancer
2 Prime Speaker Zegana
3 Artful Dodge
2 Rapid Hybridization
3 Increasing Savagery
4 Simic Charm
Lands: 23
4 Breeding Pool
4 Hinterland Harbor
2 Rogue’s Passage
7 Forest
6 Island
Standard Decks
WR Boros Heroic
I basically looked at Simic and thought to myself--what are it's strengths? To me, on paper its strengths are that it can be fast aggro while still maintaining an incredible mid-game aggro presence thanks to the Master Biomancer.
Most fast aggro decks run out of steam during mid-game as they are limited to just a few creatures with some pop potential. Simic aggro decks have incredible staying power thanks to the Biomancer--your weenies all come in as fatties mid-game after sweeps/removal and you can draw cards. So, with this in mind, I figured the strength of the deck is to go all-in aggro creatures in the MD, and then adjust out of the SB. Due to Simic's card draw, you can keep drawing solid creatures. I'm still questioning whether splashing white or black could be stronger, but that's really a different deck.
Generally, most decks are forced to block/remove our creatures so we can generally keep up with fast aggro well enough early. And we can very quickly have creatures get out of burn range by the time midrange comes around (don't fall into the trap of attacking or blocking with Master Biomancers unless necessary thanks to Azorious Charm). And, very often I found my creatures were just under Selesnya Charm range too.
However, creatures like Thundermaw Hellkite, Olivia Voldaren and Falkenrath Aristocrat can give us trouble. To those decks I say, have fun with my SB card--Silklash Spider. It's a great evolve creature and it will neuter those creatures fast.
Anyway, off the top of my head, my MD is:
3 Experiment One
2 Gyre Sage
4 Strangleroot Geist
3 Zameck Guildmage
2 Elusive Krasis
4 Master Biomancer
2 Fathom Mage
2 Deadbridge Goliath
2 Primordial Hydra
2 Thragtusk
2 Rancor
2 Rapid Hybridization
2 Simic Charm
4 Hinterland Harbor
9 Forest
7 Island
2 Predator Ooze
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Witchbane Orb
3 Silklash Spider
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Negate
With the curve above, I generally have had pretty good results without much ramp. The Gyre Sages usually don't get targeted with removal, so I often get some ramp out of them to cast things a bit earlier. Also, they provide another evolve creature in the 2CC spot. I tried to make sure the evolve curve was solid in the deck at all times. However, I could see dropping the Gyre Sages for more Elusive Krasis or more Thragtusk MD.
You could also just go with 4 Rapid Hybridization and drop Simic Charms for G1. That often results in the most nut draws, and Rapid Hybridization can deal with Boros Reckoner and other problem creatures when not indestructible.
The SB is very meta dependent. Against Esper Control, Garruk, Predator Ooze, Orb, and Negates are useful, and you can often run over them in G1.
You could play Increasing Savagery over Deadbridge Goliath...but that doesn't help you evolve. Deadbridge is another board clogger and you can scavenge with it effectively. I might consider just playing 2 more Thragtusks instead of Deadbridge though.
Thanks for taking the time to post and all the great advice..I think I will try this out for awhile..
3 Young Wolf
4 Strangleroot Geist
3 Cloudfin Raptor
4 Invisible Stalker
3 Zameck Guildmage
2 Fathom Mage
4 Master Biomancer
2 Prime Speaker Zegana
2 Artful Dodge
3 Rapid Hybridization
3 Increasing Savagery
4 Simic Charm
Lands: 23
4 Breeding Pool
4 Hinterland Harbor
2 Rogue’s Passage
7 Forest
6 Island
Standard Decks
WR Boros Heroic
It really sucks that they have not all been combined as I have basically said everything on this page already. Pointed out a set of raptors and exp 1 with 2-3 of the other is best, gave the idea of silklash spider, told you to run a set of guildmages, etc. Not tooting my own horn. Just saying we could be weeks ahead if we had a general simic thread. I am sure this could be the deck at some point but not if rdw (for instance) has 1 thread where everyone is working together and simic has 5 or whatever. I am not saying I am the simic expert or anything, although it is possible, but we really don't need to spend weeks to figure out points I made back then. Others have had helpful comments as well.
My next prediction is biomancer and the guildleader in combination is too slow. When the guildmage does the job almost as good for a lot less. Better in some cases. Lets see how long this one takes.
I agree a Simic primer needs made. If it helps I put defiance in the sideboard. Otherwise sorry for posting in the wrong thread. I had to make my list more aggro to keep up with my meta. I disagree with dodge being unimportant. This deck has the potential with evolve and being unblockable to have big creatures quick that they cant block. Aggro decks like boros don't do well when bigger creatures hit the board. As soon as u get out of the burn range its tough. I feel the main list in this thread is good..but clouded up with way too many 4 drops. I play tested it several times and continued to side out my higher cost for lower to keep up.
Standard Decks
WR Boros Heroic
[Clan Flamingo]
Well, as you've probably noted from my posts in the all of the Simic threads, I agree with you. Zegana is nowhere to be found in any of my pure Simic lists. I think she is best in a Bant version where you are able to blink her. In general, though, I think Garruk, Primal Hunter is just a more useful card in most builds.
To me, trample is better than dodge, and Rancor doubles as an easy way to boost the power of your Master Biomancers in mid-game once you get there. The problem with adding too many creature dependent spells is that you are relying on having a creature on the board that stays on the board through an attack. With 4x Azorious Charm being played by Esper Control and UWR Tempo decks (and Snapcasters for even more uses!), that may make those cards fairly dead in hand. At least Rancor keeps popping back to your hand for further applications--and sometimes better applications.
I think you are actually noting an issue that we've both stated at various times--an issue with Simic is that it can go in so many different directions. The Evolve mechanic can be fast aggro or mid-range, and it can be further splashed in any of the remaining three colors for value.
thanks to everyone who has posted here though, there has been a lot of good thoughts mentioned here. Tog, you working on that primer yet?
By the time you're even close to that point, you've probably should have won.
You probably should drop her as soon as you can to draw 6-8 cards? Even if you drew 10 on turn 10, you shouldn't even be halfway through your deck unless you're running additional draw or getting milled. (And how many decks mills in standard?)
Prey Upon is huge here.