I think the mana base needs some work and keep debating if I should MD Feeling of Dread or Blind Obedience and throw the other in the SB. Thoughts?
Since your new I figured I'd fix up your decklist a little for you.. most people lump instants and sorceries together, and a lot of people put N/C (noncreature) permanents together as well. Also if you put the # of each in brackets it makes it much easier for people to quickly figure out your list.. in your case we can see that you have a 61 card list and the first suggestion is to cut a card
As for critiques, I do prefer Blind Obedience in the main but I have seen a lot of people talking about it being strictly a sideboard card. I disagree, I think it will save you a lot of life and makes sweepers that much more effective. I dont like Feeling of dread at all in this list as its not really a tempo list.
On the topic of sweepers, 6 mana is a lot to pay and is one of the only things holding terminus back from being the go to sweeper of the format. Merciless Eviction likely isn't good enough and I would suggest an additional Supreme verdict instead.
One last comment, I really feel Azorious Charm is more of a tempo card than a control card and you seem to be more on the control side, I would recommend an another ORzhov Charm or two and maybe ultimate price? Not too sure on that one.
Thank you for the feedback. Those are all good thoughts. I appreciate it! I would like to point out though there are only 10 creatures. Therefore it is a 60 card deck
Yea, I understand hes a good threat on an empty board, but he doesn't play into that strategy. He is a 4 drop, which means he competes with the sweepers on the curve. If your a control deck you aren't impactine the board much before you sweep.... so if you drop gideon on 4, he probably just gets attacked... and if you drop him on 5 after a sweep, they have either rebuilt their side of the board a bit, or you could have just played a Tamiyo or whatever else first... My point is, everything is a good threat on an empty board.
Yeahp, I agree with you too. I just explained why GCoJ impacts board
Personally for esper, I'll play Sorin and Jace 4.0 on the 4CmC spot.
I have a question for everybody who's planning to make esper control(those who won't build/revive SolarFlare), since we're talking about GTC, and if ever Gruul splashed decks make it to the top, which I'm pretty sure it will, how will control deal with bloodrush and bloodrushed aggro? You just won't have Azorius Charm on your hand every turn right?
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Not sure if this card is gonna get banned sooner or maybe later...
Please don't make crap up. This is such an obvious word vomit it's ridiculous. Something about the internet and people thinking they need to say something to fit in..
The actually theory behind Gideon is the reason I stepped up and said that card was pretty disappointing in his discussion thread.
Through actually testing for viability, lingering souls, jace, augur of bolas feeling of dread and plenty other cards that fall into these colors actually push Gideon to be much stronger than I gave it credit for. My biggest concern was that even if you follow it up with a sweeper he is going to get bombarded with burn or be too small to actually close the game. I was pretty wrong and I will take the time to admit it.
Thank you for the feedback. Those are all good thoughts. I appreciate it! I would like to point out though there are only 10 creatures. Therefore it is a 60 card deck
You know, I counted that like 5 times.. lol. Funny how your subconscious will just let you get there sometimes when you want to make a point :P.
Through actually testing for viability, lingering souls, jace, augur of bolas feeling of dread and plenty other cards that fall into these colors actually push Gideon to be much stronger than I gave it credit for.
This, creatures and others can be tapped down to the point that Gideon gets fairly large. I think he works really well with Blind Obedience.
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Avatar by Disappointing Signet Inc
EDH Decks UWB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic's spring of life RUG Animar, Soul of the Elements and friends... lots of them WBG Karador king of two worlds (value and attrition) WRKalemne's Angels BRUG Yidris's Wild Party UWBR Breya's Terrifying Tinker Toys UBRThe Pretender
Gideon is still awful, if you're playing a walker that doesn't stabilize your board at all, what's the point? As for Geist+Stalker, just play Bant, it does this better than Esper could dream of doing, it's really a waste to try to fit into Esper, much less a control deck.
The Esper decks that are working right now focus heavily on having an uncounterable win con and mastery of the board, adding random Gideons and Geists are awful. I have no idea how that helps you because you become a bad version of every other strategy you could play.
Use the lands and SB Blind Obedience. Aetherize could be good in conjunction with Souls. Please stop adding random creatures that can't help you block or swing life totals and calling it Esper Control. Focus on what these colors offer.
I disagree, with the dimir cipher abilities, stalker can take control of the board for you in conjunction with bounce spells and counters and is quick enough to not have to worry about aggro, while geist can be a threat with enchantments.
I will agree that geist feels a bit clunky, but I might switch him for geralf's messenger as a blocker.
I just think that dimir has hidden possibilities, but require playing it different than what the current meta decks are playing. I may be totally wrong, but this is trying something new.
Why would Messenger be a blocker? It comes into play tapped to start. Why not just play Lingering Souls? You have Obedience in for what reason if Stalker is unblockable anyway. Why gear your deck to Cipher Nightwing and turn Stalker into a baby Frost Titan? The other one costs way too much to use anyway. What happens when you just get the board swept? Or fight against Tusk and Angel? Every other deck is more efficient than you at implementing a game plan.
True, I will probably end up putting lingering souls in there, thanks.
I have obedience in to stop flash and give stalker a chance to 2turn tap creatures coming in and even use the extort off of the cipher ability if need be, but I should side board that, because I can play multiple instances of cipher onto stalker, allowing me the potential to do many things with cipher.
well If fighting a blue white I would have to counter terminus and either orzhov charm or root born stalker, but it is true that board wipes will suck.
If I am fighting tusk/angel I would throw in essence scatter in from side board and just keep thragtusk tapped, or I would just use nightwing/spirit tokens to chump block.
They may be, but since this forum isn't a competition and is suppose to be helpful, trying out different ideas against the meta shouldn't be discouraged or told to stick with the meta.
Thanks for the constructive criticism! If you have more I would appreciate it!
I chose to select Duskmantle Seer over Obzedat, Ghost Concil because it gives us card advantage and with our cards mainly 3 to 0 (Exception of the 3 Verdicts in main and Jace/terminus in the SB)
Rhox Faithmender could be fit in the SB perhaps?
I like keyrune but i can also be a downside. I could put in some Terminus Main board instead of the keyrunes. Keyrunes help pump up the revelations
The land might not be that good though Input is greatly appreciated on how i should procede to the land distribution
Also looking to play this at Grand Prix in February ( or 4c Peddler )
I am going to throw out that I assume Dispel will soon become a mb answer for Boros Charm and Skullcrak as they will get out of hand. Azorius Charm should without question be a 3-4 of as it deals with Aggro easily. I am looking to open a few spots for Blind Obedience as a hasted boros deck will be coming.
I chose to select Duskmantle Seer over Obzedat, Ghost Concil because it gives us card advantage and with our cards mainly 3 to 0 (Exception of the 3 Verdicts in main and Jace/terminus in the SB)
Rhox Faithmender could be fit in the SB perhaps?
I like keyrune but i can also be a downside. I could put in some Terminus Main board instead of the keyrunes. Keyrunes help pump up the revelations
The land might not be that good though Input is greatly appreciated on how i should procede to the land distribution
Also looking to play this at Grand Prix in February ( or 4c Peddler )
you will never want to take 6 and 4 for your verdict and terminus. duskmantle seer is bad in control, unless u have an absurd amount of lifegain.
You played JESUS?!?! I heard none of his guys stay in the graveyard, and once you think you have him beat he ALWAYS comes back to win within three turns. I like...WORSHIP him.
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Since your new I figured I'd fix up your decklist a little for you.. most people lump instants and sorceries together, and a lot of people put N/C (noncreature) permanents together as well. Also if you put the # of each in brackets it makes it much easier for people to quickly figure out your list.. in your case we can see that you have a 61 card list and the first suggestion is to cut a card
As for critiques, I do prefer Blind Obedience in the main but I have seen a lot of people talking about it being strictly a sideboard card. I disagree, I think it will save you a lot of life and makes sweepers that much more effective. I dont like Feeling of dread at all in this list as its not really a tempo list.
On the topic of sweepers, 6 mana is a lot to pay and is one of the only things holding terminus back from being the go to sweeper of the format. Merciless Eviction likely isn't good enough and I would suggest an additional Supreme verdict instead.
One last comment, I really feel Azorious Charm is more of a tempo card than a control card and you seem to be more on the control side, I would recommend an another ORzhov Charm or two and maybe ultimate price? Not too sure on that one.
Yeahp, I agree with you too. I just explained why GCoJ impacts board
Personally for esper, I'll play Sorin and Jace 4.0 on the 4CmC spot.
I have a question for everybody who's planning to make esper control(those who won't build/revive SolarFlare), since we're talking about GTC, and if ever Gruul splashed decks make it to the top, which I'm pretty sure it will, how will control deal with bloodrush and bloodrushed aggro? You just won't have Azorius Charm on your hand every turn right?
Through actually testing for viability, lingering souls, jace, augur of bolas feeling of dread and plenty other cards that fall into these colors actually push Gideon to be much stronger than I gave it credit for. My biggest concern was that even if you follow it up with a sweeper he is going to get bombarded with burn or be too small to actually close the game. I was pretty wrong and I will take the time to admit it.
You know, I counted that like 5 times.. lol. Funny how your subconscious will just let you get there sometimes when you want to make a point :P.
This, creatures and others can be tapped down to the point that Gideon gets fairly large. I think he works really well with Blind Obedience.
EDH Decks
UWB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic's spring of life
RUG Animar, Soul of the Elements and friends... lots of them
WBG Karador king of two worlds (value and attrition)
WRKalemne's Angels
BRUG Yidris's Wild Party
UWBR Breya's Terrifying Tinker Toys
UBR The Pretender
3x Glacial Fortress
3x Godless Shrine
3x Hallowed Fountain
1x Island
3x Isolated Chapel
1x Plains
1x Swamp
3x Watery Grave
4x Invisible Stalker
2x Call of the Nightwing
4x Hands of Binding
3x cyclonic rift
2x Undercity Plague
3x Blind Obedience
3x Detention Sphere
4x Ethereal Armor
3x Spectral Flight
3x Orzhov Charm
3x Unsummon
The Esper decks that are working right now focus heavily on having an uncounterable win con and mastery of the board, adding random Gideons and Geists are awful. I have no idea how that helps you because you become a bad version of every other strategy you could play.
Use the lands and SB Blind Obedience. Aetherize could be good in conjunction with Souls. Please stop adding random creatures that can't help you block or swing life totals and calling it Esper Control. Focus on what these colors offer.
I will agree that geist feels a bit clunky, but I might switch him for geralf's messenger as a blocker.
I just think that dimir has hidden possibilities, but require playing it different than what the current meta decks are playing. I may be totally wrong, but this is trying something new.
I have obedience in to stop flash and give stalker a chance to 2turn tap creatures coming in and even use the extort off of the cipher ability if need be, but I should side board that, because I can play multiple instances of cipher onto stalker, allowing me the potential to do many things with cipher.
well If fighting a blue white I would have to counter terminus and either orzhov charm or root born stalker, but it is true that board wipes will suck.
If I am fighting tusk/angel I would throw in essence scatter in from side board and just keep thragtusk tapped, or I would just use nightwing/spirit tokens to chump block.
They may be, but since this forum isn't a competition and is suppose to be helpful, trying out different ideas against the meta shouldn't be discouraged or told to stick with the meta.
Thanks for the constructive criticism! If you have more I would appreciate it!
- Creatures ( 7 )
4 Duskmantle Seer
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Augur of Bolas
- Sorceries ( 7 )
3 Supreme Verdict
4 Lingering Souls
- Instants ( 19 )
3 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Ultimate Price
2 Azorius Charm
1 Dimir Charm
2 Tribute to Hunger
2 Think Twice
1 Forbidden Alchemy
3 Dissipate
1 Azorius Keyrune
1 Dimir Keyrune
1 Blind Obedience
- Lands ( 25 ) ( 14U, 12W , 13B )
1 Nephalia Drownyard
1 Vault of the Archangel
4 Hallowed Fountain
3 Glacial Fortress
3 Drowned Catacomb
4 Watery Grave
2 Isolated Chapel
2 Godless Shrine
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Swamp
1 Plains
3 Dispel
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Terminus
1 Ultimate Price
3 Rest in Piece
2 Jace, the Memory Adept
1 Detention Sphere
2 Tribute to Hunger
I chose to select Duskmantle Seer over Obzedat, Ghost Concil because it gives us card advantage and with our cards mainly 3 to 0 (Exception of the 3 Verdicts in main and Jace/terminus in the SB)
Rhox Faithmender could be fit in the SB perhaps?
I like keyrune but i can also be a downside. I could put in some Terminus Main board instead of the keyrunes. Keyrunes help pump up the revelations
The land might not be that good though Input is greatly appreciated on how i should procede to the land distribution
Also looking to play this at Grand Prix in February ( or 4c Peddler )
WBRDega MidrangeRBW
2x Snapcaster Mage
1x Obzedat, Ghost Council
Enchantment – 1
1x Detention Sphere
Instant – 20
2x Rabid Hybridization
2x Dispel
4x Azorious Charm
3x Dissipate
4x Sphinx’s Revelation
2x Think Twice
3x Ultimate Price
1x Jace, Architect of Thought
Sorcery – 8
4x Supreme Verdict
3x Terminus
Basic Land – 4
4x Island
Land – 22
2x Watery Grave
2x Godless Shrine
3x Hallowed Fountain
4x Glacial Fortress
4x Drowned Catacomb
4x Isolated Chapel
3x Nephalia Drownyard
2x Negate
2x Feeling of Dread
1x Sundering Growth
2x Rest in Peace
1x Evil Twin
2x Duress
2x Jace, Memory Adept
2x Tragic Slip
1x Pithing Needle
I am going to throw out that I assume Dispel will soon become a mb answer for Boros Charm and Skullcrak as they will get out of hand. Azorius Charm should without question be a 3-4 of as it deals with Aggro easily. I am looking to open a few spots for Blind Obedience as a hasted boros deck will be coming.
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you will never want to take 6 and 4 for your verdict and terminus. duskmantle seer is bad in control, unless u have an absurd amount of lifegain.
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