I think that Vitu Ghazi Guildmage needs to be in the main deck. As for Centuar Healer it's nice but I think there are better methods of lifegain. Like the rest of it though! =) what's in your main deck?
what do you think about the manabase? I didint want to run full 8 shockland because im afraid it would be too suicidal (local metagame would be zombies..).. 4 forest to ensure 1st drop.. I dont know if 3 sorin is too much or just good..
based on testing in mws, Angel of serenity really blew us out, it basically saying 5/6 flying, when come into play, destroying three of our dudes.. that's why I prefer more speed approach with 3 rancors.. but sometimes it's not fast enough..
what do you think about the manabase? I didint want to run full 8 shockland because im afraid it would be too suicidal (local metagame would be zombies..).. 4 forest to ensure 1st drop.. I dont know if 3 sorin is too much or just good..
based on testing in mws, Angel of serenity really blew us out, it basically saying 5/6 flying, when come into play, destroying three of our dudes.. that's why I prefer more speed approach with 3 rancors.. but sometimes it's not fast enough..
how do you guys planning on facing ramp decks?
Angel of Serenity will be a problem. But she'll be a problem against anyone, the raw advantage she brings to the table is insane. However, ramping up to 7 is much different than ramping up to 6. Maybe, I mis-evaluate how good ramp will be in this format, but I don't see Serenity being played like a second coming of Wolf Run X.
what do you think about the manabase? I didint want to run full 8 shockland because im afraid it would be too suicidal (local metagame would be zombies..).. 4 forest to ensure 1st drop.. I dont know if 3 sorin is too much or just good..
based on testing in mws, Angel of serenity really blew us out, it basically saying 5/6 flying, when come into play, destroying three of our dudes.. that's why I prefer more speed approach with 3 rancors.. but sometimes it's not fast enough..
how do you guys planning on facing ramp decks?
I do appeticated and understand your point in 8x shock land being dangerous. Hence why I added Vault of the Archangel over Gavony Township. However I'm very curious as to why Deathbrite is in there. Also may I suggest Garruk, Primal Hunter b/c for just 1 more mana you can produce 3/3s and have draw power. I'd go with the shocks land, or +2 Woodland Cemetery -2 swamp.
I do appeticated and understand your point in 8x shock land being dangerous. Hence why I added Vault of the Archangel over Gavony Township. However I'm very curious as to why Deathbrite is in there. Also may I suggest Garruk, Primal Hunter b/c for just 1 more mana you can produce 3/3s and have draw power. I'd go with the shocks land, or +2 Woodland Cemetery -2 swamp.
I think Deathrite is a very interesting card that may very well be a strong point of our deck. He gives us two relevant abilities - the G:Gain two life is extremely relevant in stopping Undying Triggers, Gravecrawlers, Loleth Troll Discards, Frites deck and for stabilizing against any aggro deck. His B:Shock a player also gives a LOT of reach. We use a lot of spells as such our graveyard is a prime target to exile to do two damage to someone, it also hoses flashback spells (making Think Twice an awful cantrip), Snapcaster Targets (Snap into Supreme Verdict makes me sad), and allows us to do free damage to an opponent for the simple cost of B. He is a fantastic card... That if I drop my Avacyn Priests and thus myCollective Blessings, that will be the card that goes in. He's also not bad in multiples as 4 damage a turn, 4 life, or 2 Life and 2 Damage is not a bad trade.
Edit: I also agree on 3x Sorin. I'm switching that over to my own list. He's that good.
I tried hybridizing the deck with a more planeswalker control/midrange inspired build and got some interesting results. When you play on the stack as much as this version does, you can play around sweepers and other typical foes of token decks far more easily. I originally had more removal but decided to drop a bit of it to play Selesnya Charm as an early game strategy but have recently found myself wishing I had something else in its place (but I'm not sure what). I think this version's biggest strength is the pressure it can put on its opponent with single, strong threats like Thragtusk and the Archangel.
Any thoughts? I've only tested this on Cockatrice so far and it's had a pretty good matchup against Delver and gone roughly 50-50 with Rakdos zombies.
Edit:
some obvious things I'm considering:
Rancor (maybe over Selesnya Charm?)
Gavony Township/Vault of the Archangel, the manabase could probably handle it.
Looks interesting, but I really think this deck as a whole needs more removal in it, I can't help but feel like list all worth mentioning removal spells would help so here they are...
Tragic Slip cmc1 and easily an instant kill after swinging full force at your opponent.
Bone Splinters cmc1 and not the best card but easily satisfied by our sheer number
Abrupt Decay cmc2 and just amazing, I've been considering side-boarding a full set instead of just 3. This effectively ruins anything that would be fast enough to stop us early game.
Soul Tithe cmc2 and worth considering, it can either slow down our opponents and/or eliminate any threat. Not the greatest removal but helps cover all threats that Abrupt Decay can't touch. Sideboard for midrange at best.
Sundering Growth cmc2 very easy to cast but not always useful, I'm running 2 of these in my side-board.
Selesnya Charm cmc2 and a must have 4 of, no exceptions! This card acts as removal to anything worth worrying about. Can offer a 2/2 token, or buff w/ trample during combat. A must have 4 of in main deck.
I think Deathrite is a very interesting card that may very well be a strong point of our deck. He gives us two relevant abilities - the G:Gain two life is extremely relevant in stopping Undying Triggers, Gravecrawlers, Loleth Troll Discards, Frites deck and for stabilizing against any aggro deck. His B:Shock a player also gives a LOT of reach. We use a lot of spells as such our graveyard is a prime target to exile to do two damage to someone, it also hoses flashback spells (making Think Twice an awful cantrip), Snapcaster Targets (Snap into Supreme Verdict makes me sad), and allows us to do free damage to an opponent for the simple cost of B. He is a fantastic card... That if I drop my Avacyn Priests and thus myCollective Blessings, that will be the card that goes in. He's also not bad in multiples as 4 damage a turn, 4 life, or 2 Life and 2 Damage is not a bad trade.
Edit: I also agree on 3x Sorin. I'm switching that over to my own list. He's that good.
i suspect many2 archetype deck in this standard season would be zombies, and snapcaster.. that's going to be tier 1 deck (along with us of course), a card that deal with those both? yes please.. what list are you running now?
Armada wurm is not that good to me, because if you play this style of deck you want to finish the opponent as fast as you can.. collective blessing does that, by the turn it hit the battlefield.. and it turns our flyer to become monsters late game.. I think armada's place is in some kind of ramp deck.. dunno if I'm wrong..
I still think people may be underestimating Trostani, Selesnya's Voice in a token deck and in the current meta. She does effectively dodge Abrupt Decay, which is going to be played frequently in decks. She also synergizes amazingly well with Garruk or Sorin, and the lifegain will likely be important. Her toughness of 5 will likely be relevant as well to provide blocks against rancor equipped zombies, and it will get only greater with Gavony pumps. After blocking, she provides a further benefit in that she can create another token for aggro purposes on your next turn. Her cc is 4, and while not the easiest combination, you should be able to hit it with frequency. My only question is whether she is best reserved for G/W tokens rather than G/W/B.
I would certainly consider subbing her out against straight control, but she's pretty awesome against aggro and some of the tempo decks I foresee cropping up that will be splashing red. Tokens is also more of a mid-game deck anyway at this point. There are faster decks to play if you want to go aggro.
I still think people may be underestimating Trostani, Selesnya's Voice in a token deck and in the current meta. She does effectively dodge Abrupt Decay, which is going to be played frequently in decks. She also synergizes amazingly well with Garruk or Sorin, and the lifegain will likely be important. Her toughness of 5 will likely be relevant as well to provide blocks against rancor equipped zombies, and it will get only greater with Gavony pumps. After blocking, she provides a further benefit in that she can create another token for aggro purposes on your next turn. Her cc is 4, and while not the easiest combination, you should be able to hit it with frequency. My only question is whether she is best reserved for G/W tokens rather than G/W/B.
I would certainly consider subbing her out against straight control, but she's pretty awesome against aggro and some of the tempo decks I foresee cropping up that will be splashing red. Tokens is also more of a mid-game deck anyway at this point. There are faster decks to play if you want to go aggro.
the downside of trostani is her ability is way too slow, and require mana investment (unlike PW's).. if you want gainlife and a body, there's thragtusk.. guaranteed life, guaranteed 2 bodies..
against tempo? they just bounce this after she hit the board, and we waste a turn for nothing.. against GB they just cast rancor, against BR they just dreadbore it.. the only relevant token we're populate-ing in this deck would be call of the conclave.. maybe yes it is better in GW deck with armada wurm token.. this deck needs removal more than trostani I think..
Not bad choices, I myself was debating 2-of Deathrite in the sb, and if you like running 1 more Garruk I can understand why. Your sb choice is a meta call (which sb's always are). I know people who would argue you NEED those rootborn defenses in the sb, but if you feel like they're not helping and charm is a better way to keep our tokens alive, then by all means customize your sb. This is why magic is great, different people using the same strategies yet making it their own.
Not bad choices, I myself was debating 2-of Deathrite in the sb, and if you like running 1 more Garruk I can understand why. Your sb choice is a meta call (which sb's always are). I know people who would argue you NEED those rootborn defenses in the sb, but if you feel like they're not helping and charm is a better way to keep our tokens alive, then by all means customize your sb. This is why magic is great, different people using the same strategies yet making it their own.
Agreed. Most of my current playtesting is on cockatrice, so I am keeping my board more general. I feel that charm is better than rootbound in almost all situations. It provudes defense against sweepers, answers d. Sphere and curse, and it is potent in the mirror. I felt that, while arbir elf increased the speed, the slight boost it gave wasn't worth the draw late game. That said, your deck plays the strongest out of all the ones I have playtested.
Agreed. Most of my current playtesting is on cockatrice, so I am keeping my board more general. I feel that charm is better than rootbound in almost all situations. It provudes defense against sweepers, answers d. Sphere and curse, and it is potent in the mirror. I felt that, while arbir elf increased the speed, the slight boost it gave wasn't worth the draw late game. That said, your deck plays the strongest out of all the ones I have playtested.
Both cards serves similar functions - and thus can easily be interchangeable. I feel that Rootborn serves Call of the Conclave a lot better, whereas Golgari Charm serves the Spirit Route. But, both are pretty similar. I like the edit you've done to Believe's list. When I was playtesting his list I did the same thing adding Deathrite's mainboard. I didn't feel that the Arbor Elves were serving a good enough purpose.
Fiddling with this ideas with this build at the moment and I feel like 4 Avacyn's Pilgrim, 2 Arbor Elf, and 2 Farseek is what is working well for mana acceleration.
I really like Farseek a lot since it nabs either a tomb or a garden depending on what mana you are accelerating toward for turn 3 or 4. I'll post my decklist once I do some more germinating, but I really like this build after playing a lot of G/W during the pre-release.
Fiddling with this ideas with this build at the moment and I feel like 4 Avacyn's Pilgrim, 2 Arbor Elf, and 2 Farseek is what is working well for mana acceleration.
I really like Farseek a lot since it nabs either a tomb or a garden depending on what mana you are accelerating toward for turn 3 or 4. I'll post my decklist once I do some more germinating, but I really like this build after playing a lot of G/W during the pre-release.
I wholeheartedly agree with diversifying our tokens. Both DSphere and Sever the Bloodline will be played as they are good spells and help deal with recurssion. If you take a look at my list, ive made sure that most of my generators produce different named creatures as to not be blown out by one of those spells. This is the reason I am more hesitant to run Believes list. DSphere on our tokens makes it so that we cannot simply just destroy it to get out value back. We have the best enchantment removal in our deck in the form of Sundering Growth, which is why I feel Golgari Charm to be the weaker of the options (even with its modes).
As to the idea of Farseek - while I like the suggestion (as we dot need the ramp on turn 2, but rather turn 4-5, I believe that Selesnya keyrune or Golgari Keyrune are a better option. They can be used as blockers, attackers, protection from walkers, a way to solidify 5 mana an they can be pumped via CB or Gavony. They are also more resilient than dorks. To top it off it may be a better topdeck than a Farseek. I would only probably run 4 Pilgrims and 2-3 Keyrunes at most (probably 2 Selesnya, 1 Golgari).
the downside of trostani is her ability is way too slow, and require mana investment (unlike PW's).. if you want gainlife and a body, there's thragtusk.. guaranteed life, guaranteed 2 bodies..
against tempo? they just bounce this after she hit the board, and we waste a turn for nothing.. against GB they just cast rancor, against BR they just dreadbore it.. the only relevant token we're populate-ing in this deck would be call of the conclave.. maybe yes it is better in GW deck with armada wurm token.. this deck needs removal more than trostani I think..
but, heck, maybe Im wrong too..
I generally agree with the downsides, although I don't think they are as severe as people are making them out to be. Certainly the buffalo is a great card, but at 5cc he is not competing with Trostani. Trostani is competing with Garruk Relentless and Sorin, as others have noted. I see her as a way to diversify your 4 slot a bit. I've been a bit concerned packing 4 of any one planeswalker, and you could effectively play 2 of each Planeswalker and her effectively in our mid-range deck. Populating any token once you have one or more Intangible Virtues on board isn't such a bad thing--Lingering Souls, Selesnya Charm, precinct's soldier, etc. But, as I mentioned, she may be better in a straight G/W Selesnya mid-range deck, where she can occupy the 4-cc slot with Garruk.
I don't see rancor as much of a problem as she can block some pretty big things with her starting toughness of 5 (which will get bigger with counters). Tempo decks have notoriously always struggled against decks packing lots of lifegain and chump flying blockers, because they can't kill you before you stabilize in the mid-game.
In my testing she's proven to be very effective so far, but, of course, it remains to be seen what the pros put together this weekend.
This is the list I've been testing, and I've been liking it a lot so far. I definitely like Collective Blessing over Armada Wurm. Blessing plays a big part in turning everything we can top deck into a lethal threat.
It's important to me while still in the early phases of testing to have as many 4 ofs as possible. You want the deck to be as streamlined as possible while you work out what's good and what's not. The only exceptions in this list are Collective Blessing as any more than two created awkward hands and felt very clunky, and Sorin, ditto. The single garruk is really just a filler in the final slot, but I like him there well enough. Other than that, I like all of the cards on the list as 4 ofs.
I am a former B/W tokens player (first deck that got me to 4-0 my local FNMs consistently and even did crazy good for weeks until silly Bonfire of the Damned came around) and wanted to continue playing tokens competitively after rotation and have enjoyed reading along and playtesting a little bit with a Junk Tokens deck and was wondering what people think of the way I am building the deck. Here is the list:
I had originally tried out running Garruk, Primal Hunter, but I found that some of the time that triple green was causing me issues, despite me really liking him as an overall card, so I am trying out Garruk Relentless now. I had been suggested to run Vraska instead of Sorin, but I think that Sorin having the ability to drop a lifelinker or to create that emblem is a great boost, especially on turn 3 which is when I usually try to cast him. Before anyone says anything about only running 3 of the conclave, I am trying to spread out the token types as much as possible to avoid detention sphere and sever, and because of that, I have seen my opponents use detention sphere on a rancor and leave my tokens alone, since they would have only gotten one or two. So with this build, I have 3/3 Centaurs, 1/1 Spirits, 1/1 Humans, 1/1 Vampires, 2/2 Wolves and 2/2 Knights(if needed for extra oomph). I am not totally sold on the Wayfaring Temple, but I think he might be good, I just haven't tested with him enough to know yet my feelings. I am also considering running Loxodon Smiter instead of the Wayfaring Temple, since smiter just looks so good. I mean, under the best circumstances, he's an uncounterable 4/4 on turn 2 for me, and on turn 3, gets a Rancor and goes nuts.
I have not yet put together a sideboard, but I believe it would include possibly Golgari Charms, another Rootborn Defenses, and I am thinking of using Ranger's Guile. The reasoning is that Ranger's Guile could be good against decks sideboarding or mainboarding Detention Sphere and Sever the Bloodline, as they both require targeting a creature (with the sphere obviously only if they chose a creature) and for 1 mana, it is essentially a counter, making the spell fizzle to a hexproof dude. Also, I am looking at Druid's Deliverance as a sideboard option, because it seems like a solid choice against zombies, where I can let the little guys in, prevent it and populate and then swing back for a bit.
Not sure on my sideboard yet either. I think that the list can handle Zombies and my tokens are spread out enough that Detention Sphere won't wreck my day. Also not sure if I should cut Gavony for 1 more Vault and another colored land.
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Right now I'm Considering this in my maindeck:
4 Sunpetal Grove
4 Temple Garden
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Woodland Cemetery
2 Isolated Chapel
4 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Vault of Archangel
1 Gavony Township
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
3 Deathrite Shaman
Token Generator:
4 Lingering Souls
4 Call of the Conclave
4 Midnight Haunting
4 Selesnya Charm
Support:
3x Rancor
4x Intangible Virtue
1x Collective Blessing
Planeswalker:
2x Garruk Relentless
3x Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
3 Rootborn Defense
2 Vitu Ghazi Guildmage
3 Duress
2 Sundering Growth
3 Centaur Healer
what do you think about the manabase? I didint want to run full 8 shockland because im afraid it would be too suicidal (local metagame would be zombies..).. 4 forest to ensure 1st drop.. I dont know if 3 sorin is too much or just good..
based on testing in mws, Angel of serenity really blew us out, it basically saying 5/6 flying, when come into play, destroying three of our dudes.. that's why I prefer more speed approach with 3 rancors.. but sometimes it's not fast enough..
how do you guys planning on facing ramp decks?
Angel of Serenity will be a problem. But she'll be a problem against anyone, the raw advantage she brings to the table is insane. However, ramping up to 7 is much different than ramping up to 6. Maybe, I mis-evaluate how good ramp will be in this format, but I don't see Serenity being played like a second coming of Wolf Run X.
Modern:
Abzan Company
Abzan Midrange
GB Collected Elves
Legacy:
Junkblade
EDH:
Erebos, God of Black
You won't like Omnath when he's angry...
CEDH:
Meren, Clan of Vzlue
- Competitive Decks -
WU Venser Allies WU
WR Battlecry Metalcraft WR
GWB Junk Tokens GWB
"Let's roll him down the stairs!"
- Jacob
- Competitive Decks -
WU Venser Allies WU
WR Battlecry Metalcraft WR
GWB Junk Tokens GWB
"Let's roll him down the stairs!"
- Jacob
I think Deathrite is a very interesting card that may very well be a strong point of our deck. He gives us two relevant abilities - the G:Gain two life is extremely relevant in stopping Undying Triggers, Gravecrawlers, Loleth Troll Discards, Frites deck and for stabilizing against any aggro deck. His B:Shock a player also gives a LOT of reach. We use a lot of spells as such our graveyard is a prime target to exile to do two damage to someone, it also hoses flashback spells (making Think Twice an awful cantrip), Snapcaster Targets (Snap into Supreme Verdict makes me sad), and allows us to do free damage to an opponent for the simple cost of B. He is a fantastic card... That if I drop my Avacyn Priests and thus myCollective Blessings, that will be the card that goes in. He's also not bad in multiples as 4 damage a turn, 4 life, or 2 Life and 2 Damage is not a bad trade.
Edit: I also agree on 3x Sorin. I'm switching that over to my own list. He's that good.
Modern:
Abzan Company
Abzan Midrange
GB Collected Elves
Legacy:
Junkblade
EDH:
Erebos, God of Black
You won't like Omnath when he's angry...
CEDH:
Meren, Clan of Vzlue
- Competitive Decks -
WU Venser Allies WU
WR Battlecry Metalcraft WR
GWB Junk Tokens GWB
"Let's roll him down the stairs!"
- Jacob
2 Vraska the Unseen
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Oblivion Ring
4 Intangible Virtue
4 Lingering Souls
4 Gather the Townsfolk
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Midnight Haunting
3 Tragic Slip
2 Thragtusk
3 Sublime Archangel
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Temple Garden
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Sunpetal Grove
4 Woodland Cemetery
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Terramorphic Expanse
Any thoughts? I've only tested this on Cockatrice so far and it's had a pretty good matchup against Delver and gone roughly 50-50 with Rakdos zombies.
Edit:
some obvious things I'm considering:
Rancor (maybe over Selesnya Charm?)
Gavony Township/Vault of the Archangel, the manabase could probably handle it.
Tragic Slip cmc1 and easily an instant kill after swinging full force at your opponent.
Bone Splinters cmc1 and not the best card but easily satisfied by our sheer number
Abrupt Decay cmc2 and just amazing, I've been considering side-boarding a full set instead of just 3. This effectively ruins anything that would be fast enough to stop us early game.
Soul Tithe cmc2 and worth considering, it can either slow down our opponents and/or eliminate any threat. Not the greatest removal but helps cover all threats that Abrupt Decay can't touch. Sideboard for midrange at best.
Sundering Growth cmc2 very easy to cast but not always useful, I'm running 2 of these in my side-board.
Selesnya Charm cmc2 and a must have 4 of, no exceptions! This card acts as removal to anything worth worrying about. Can offer a 2/2 token, or buff w/ trample during combat. A must have 4 of in main deck.
- Competitive Decks -
WU Venser Allies WU
WR Battlecry Metalcraft WR
GWB Junk Tokens GWB
"Let's roll him down the stairs!"
- Jacob
- Competitive Decks -
WU Venser Allies WU
WR Battlecry Metalcraft WR
GWB Junk Tokens GWB
"Let's roll him down the stairs!"
- Jacob
i suspect many2 archetype deck in this standard season would be zombies, and snapcaster.. that's going to be tier 1 deck (along with us of course), a card that deal with those both? yes please.. what list are you running now?
I'm currently running 3 MB.. Still Dont know how many is ideal number for this deck.. AFAIK, it really good in stabilize against zombies (BG)..
Armada wurm is not that good to me, because if you play this style of deck you want to finish the opponent as fast as you can.. collective blessing does that, by the turn it hit the battlefield.. and it turns our flyer to become monsters late game.. I think armada's place is in some kind of ramp deck.. dunno if I'm wrong..
I would certainly consider subbing her out against straight control, but she's pretty awesome against aggro and some of the tempo decks I foresee cropping up that will be splashing red. Tokens is also more of a mid-game deck anyway at this point. There are faster decks to play if you want to go aggro.
the downside of trostani is her ability is way too slow, and require mana investment (unlike PW's).. if you want gainlife and a body, there's thragtusk.. guaranteed life, guaranteed 2 bodies..
against tempo? they just bounce this after she hit the board, and we waste a turn for nothing.. against GB they just cast rancor, against BR they just dreadbore it.. the only relevant token we're populate-ing in this deck would be call of the conclave.. maybe yes it is better in GW deck with armada wurm token.. this deck needs removal more than trostani I think..
but, heck, maybe Im wrong too..
- H. L. Mencken
French Duel Commander
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
RUG Maelstrom Wanderer RUG
-3 arbor elf
+2 Deathrite Shaman
+1 Garruk Relentless
Sideboard
-3 Rootborn Defenses
+2 Golgari Charm
+1 Duress
My H/W list
Not bad choices, I myself was debating 2-of Deathrite in the sb, and if you like running 1 more Garruk I can understand why. Your sb choice is a meta call (which sb's always are). I know people who would argue you NEED those rootborn defenses in the sb, but if you feel like they're not helping and charm is a better way to keep our tokens alive, then by all means customize your sb. This is why magic is great, different people using the same strategies yet making it their own.
Standard:
GBWAggressive Junk TokensGBW
"Some convictions are so strong that the world must break to accommodate them."
Agreed. Most of my current playtesting is on cockatrice, so I am keeping my board more general. I feel that charm is better than rootbound in almost all situations. It provudes defense against sweepers, answers d. Sphere and curse, and it is potent in the mirror. I felt that, while arbir elf increased the speed, the slight boost it gave wasn't worth the draw late game. That said, your deck plays the strongest out of all the ones I have playtested.
My H/W list
Both cards serves similar functions - and thus can easily be interchangeable. I feel that Rootborn serves Call of the Conclave a lot better, whereas Golgari Charm serves the Spirit Route. But, both are pretty similar. I like the edit you've done to Believe's list. When I was playtesting his list I did the same thing adding Deathrite's mainboard. I didn't feel that the Arbor Elves were serving a good enough purpose.
Modern:
Abzan Company
Abzan Midrange
GB Collected Elves
Legacy:
Junkblade
EDH:
Erebos, God of Black
You won't like Omnath when he's angry...
CEDH:
Meren, Clan of Vzlue
Worth adding some evolving wilds to help ramp?
Or does the whole etb tapped thing just hurt us too much?
I STRONGLY believe we benefit a lot by hitting 5 or 6 mana semi reliably.
We aren't in a huge rush, so not sure.
Worth testing.
Last Updated 02/07/24
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I really like Farseek a lot since it nabs either a tomb or a garden depending on what mana you are accelerating toward for turn 3 or 4. I'll post my decklist once I do some more germinating, but I really like this build after playing a lot of G/W during the pre-release.
One thing I am trying to do is diversify my tokens so as not to get wiped out by a Detention Sphere or Sever the Bloodline.
I wholeheartedly agree with diversifying our tokens. Both DSphere and Sever the Bloodline will be played as they are good spells and help deal with recurssion. If you take a look at my list, ive made sure that most of my generators produce different named creatures as to not be blown out by one of those spells. This is the reason I am more hesitant to run Believes list. DSphere on our tokens makes it so that we cannot simply just destroy it to get out value back. We have the best enchantment removal in our deck in the form of Sundering Growth, which is why I feel Golgari Charm to be the weaker of the options (even with its modes).
As to the idea of Farseek - while I like the suggestion (as we dot need the ramp on turn 2, but rather turn 4-5, I believe that Selesnya keyrune or Golgari Keyrune are a better option. They can be used as blockers, attackers, protection from walkers, a way to solidify 5 mana an they can be pumped via CB or Gavony. They are also more resilient than dorks. To top it off it may be a better topdeck than a Farseek. I would only probably run 4 Pilgrims and 2-3 Keyrunes at most (probably 2 Selesnya, 1 Golgari).
Modern:
Abzan Company
Abzan Midrange
GB Collected Elves
Legacy:
Junkblade
EDH:
Erebos, God of Black
You won't like Omnath when he's angry...
CEDH:
Meren, Clan of Vzlue
I generally agree with the downsides, although I don't think they are as severe as people are making them out to be. Certainly the buffalo is a great card, but at 5cc he is not competing with Trostani. Trostani is competing with Garruk Relentless and Sorin, as others have noted. I see her as a way to diversify your 4 slot a bit. I've been a bit concerned packing 4 of any one planeswalker, and you could effectively play 2 of each Planeswalker and her effectively in our mid-range deck. Populating any token once you have one or more Intangible Virtues on board isn't such a bad thing--Lingering Souls, Selesnya Charm, precinct's soldier, etc. But, as I mentioned, she may be better in a straight G/W Selesnya mid-range deck, where she can occupy the 4-cc slot with Garruk.
I don't see rancor as much of a problem as she can block some pretty big things with her starting toughness of 5 (which will get bigger with counters). Tempo decks have notoriously always struggled against decks packing lots of lifegain and chump flying blockers, because they can't kill you before you stabilize in the mid-game.
In my testing she's proven to be very effective so far, but, of course, it remains to be seen what the pros put together this weekend.
It's important to me while still in the early phases of testing to have as many 4 ofs as possible. You want the deck to be as streamlined as possible while you work out what's good and what's not. The only exceptions in this list are Collective Blessing as any more than two created awkward hands and felt very clunky, and Sorin, ditto. The single garruk is really just a filler in the final slot, but I like him there well enough. Other than that, I like all of the cards on the list as 4 ofs.
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Arbor Elf
Tokens:
4 Call of the Conclave
4 Selesnya Charm
4 Lingering Souls
4 Midnight Haunting
2 Geist-Honored Monk
4 Intangible Virtue
2 Collective Blessing
Planeswalkers:
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Garruk Relentless
Land:
4 Temple Garden
4 Overgrown Tomb
5 Forest
2 Plains
4 Sunpetal Grove
2 Isolated Chapel
2 Gavony Township
2 Vault of the Archangel
4 Temple Garden
4 Overgrown Tomb
2 Woodland Cemetery
2 Sunpetal Grove
2 Isolated Chapel
3 Forest
3 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Gavony Township
1 Vault of the Archangel
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Wayfaring Temple
Sorceries
3 Call of the Conclave
3 Lingering Souls
3 Gather the Townsfolk
Instant
4 Selesnya Charm
2 Rootborn Defenses
4 Intangible Virtue
2 Collective Blessing
3 Rancor
Planeswalkers
2 Garruk Relentless
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
I had originally tried out running Garruk, Primal Hunter, but I found that some of the time that triple green was causing me issues, despite me really liking him as an overall card, so I am trying out Garruk Relentless now. I had been suggested to run Vraska instead of Sorin, but I think that Sorin having the ability to drop a lifelinker or to create that emblem is a great boost, especially on turn 3 which is when I usually try to cast him. Before anyone says anything about only running 3 of the conclave, I am trying to spread out the token types as much as possible to avoid detention sphere and sever, and because of that, I have seen my opponents use detention sphere on a rancor and leave my tokens alone, since they would have only gotten one or two. So with this build, I have 3/3 Centaurs, 1/1 Spirits, 1/1 Humans, 1/1 Vampires, 2/2 Wolves and 2/2 Knights(if needed for extra oomph). I am not totally sold on the Wayfaring Temple, but I think he might be good, I just haven't tested with him enough to know yet my feelings. I am also considering running Loxodon Smiter instead of the Wayfaring Temple, since smiter just looks so good. I mean, under the best circumstances, he's an uncounterable 4/4 on turn 2 for me, and on turn 3, gets a Rancor and goes nuts.
I have not yet put together a sideboard, but I believe it would include possibly Golgari Charms, another Rootborn Defenses, and I am thinking of using Ranger's Guile. The reasoning is that Ranger's Guile could be good against decks sideboarding or mainboarding Detention Sphere and Sever the Bloodline, as they both require targeting a creature (with the sphere obviously only if they chose a creature) and for 1 mana, it is essentially a counter, making the spell fizzle to a hexproof dude. Also, I am looking at Druid's Deliverance as a sideboard option, because it seems like a solid choice against zombies, where I can let the little guys in, prevent it and populate and then swing back for a bit.
Any input is greatly appreciated!
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
2 Thragtusk
Spells:
4 Selesnya Charm
4 Call of the Conclave
4 Lingering Souls
4 Intangible Virtue
3 Collective Blessing
4 Midnight Haunting
Planeswalkers:
3 Garruk Relentless
2 Vraska the Unseen
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
4 Temple Garden
4 Overgrown Tomb
2 Vault of the Archangel
4 Isolated Chapel
2 Sunpetal Grove
4 Forest
2 Plains
2 Woodland Cemetery
2 Rest in Peace
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Rootborn Defenses
2 Sever the Bloodline
2 Sundering Growth
3x Deathrite Shaman
4x Avacyn's Pilgrim
Instants
4x Selesnya Charm
4x Tragic Slip
3x Abrupt Decay
Sorceries
4x Call of the Conclave
4x Lingering Souls
3x Rancor
4x Intangible Virtue
Planeswalkers
2x Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
3x Garruk Relentless
Lands
4x Overgrown Tomb
4x Temple Garden
2x Gavony Township
2x Vault of the Archangel
2x Woodland Cemetery
2x Isolated Chapel
4x Forest
1x Swamp
1x Plains
Not sure on my sideboard yet either. I think that the list can handle Zombies and my tokens are spread out enough that Detention Sphere won't wreck my day. Also not sure if I should cut Gavony for 1 more Vault and another colored land.