Huh, 24-26 lands. I've been running 22, and I find it hard to tell if it's too little. The variance is too high. I've had too many and too little land, mostly it's been pretty good. Maybe I should increase it in UW, where the 6-drop is hard-cast.
I agree with this. The goal for me is to establish an edge on the board and then protect it. If you're winning the race on the board, keep mana up for your counterspells first and foremost, and make sure the opponent is always trailing a little bit behind.
About Vapor Snag, I haven't used it yet but I think I'll try. What's the opinion on boarding it in vs Birthing Pod?
Oh and on DoJ, I don't like it enough to maindeck it. Not enough creature aggro and midrange around, it's not useful vs valakut, bad vs UB, not that good vs caw, and doesn't inherently help the game plan. I prefer to keep it in the sideboard for the right occasions.
Pod isn't really an aggro deck. They play creatures that gain incremental advantage with their effects, or gather silver bullets against the opposing deck. Without those abilities the deck falls apart, which is why torpor orb is so amazing. Removal isn't so great, because chances are the damage has already been done, and you're just annoying them. Having said that, the card is amazing against aggro decks. It wins on tempo alone. I like the card, but feel that it belongs in fish and similar mana tight, tempo lists, like fish.
Day of judgment owns a resolved grave titan I understand what your saying though. It can often feel like a dead card against control. The thing is it serves an alternate purpose. It "resets" your phantasmal images if your opponent catches on. They really are better in the yard if the game goes too long, and a wise opponent will make sure that doesn't happen by when you want it to. Day of judgment is the "dredge" part of the deck if it comes to that. It may not seem important, but it is often relevent against an opponent who uderstands the finer details of the deck. However, if that is the only purpose it serves I can understand lowering it to two. If you don't expect your opponent to know this stuff, you can cut it completely, but it will hurt if you play against someone who does understand how to play against your deck.
From how you describe playing the deck, 24 lands seems like the right number for your's. Trying to hard cast sun titan off 22 lands is why I upped it to 24, and later 26 out of preference. There is a slight difference between 24 and 26 lands, but it only changes gameplay. Ironically, 26 lands is more inclined to play like a midrange deck, and 24 lands is inclined to play like a control deck. Again, it's a personal preference. I've had no signifigent difference in match ups between the two.
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Pod isn't really an aggro deck. They play creatures that gain incremental advantage with their effects, or gather silver bullets against the opposing deck. Without those abilities the deck falls apart, which is why torpor orb is so amazing. Removal isn't so great, because chances are the damage has already been done, and you're just annoying them. Having said that, the card is amazing against aggro decks. It wins on tempo alone. I like the card, but feel that it belongs in fish and similar mana tight, tempo lists, like fish.
Yes, I understand how Pod decks work - I'm not suggesting to use Vapor Snag as removal, but as an effective counter to Birthing Pod itself. It is an artifact. Their deck is a lot less menacing without it, amounting to a collection of varied EtB that may or may not be pertinent to your game plan. If Vapor Snag is only truly useful against Tempered Steel, I can't justify having it in my 75, but I suspect its use can be wider.
Day of judgment owns a resolved grave titan I understand what your saying though. It can often feel like a dead card against control. The thing is it serves an alternate purpose. It "resets" your phantasmal images if your opponent catches on. They really are better in the yard if the game goes too long, and a wise opponent will make sure that doesn't happen by when you want it to. Day of judgment is the "dredge" part of the deck if it comes to that. It may not seem important, but it is often relevent against an opponent who uderstands the finer details of the deck. However, if that is the only purpose it serves I can understand lowering it to two. If you don't expect your opponent to know this stuff, you can cut it completely, but it will hurt if you play against someone who does understand how to play against your deck.
It has only happened once, I think, that someone has caught on to the phantasmal image shenanigans, so that use is pretty narrow for me, my DoJs are happy in the sideboard
From how you describe playing the deck, 24 lands seems like the right number for your's. Trying to hard cast sun titan off 22 lands is why I upped it to 24, and later 26 out of preference. There is a slight difference between 24 and 26 lands, but it only changes gameplay. Ironically, 26 lands is more inclined to play like a midrange deck, and 24 lands is inclined to play like a control deck. Again, it's a personal preference. I've had no signifigent difference in match ups between the two.
Yeah, I'll try with 24, it'll be torture deciding what to cut but I'll find something. Maybe my two Into the Roils - they haven't seen as much use as the rest.
Yes, I understand how Pod decks work - I'm not suggesting to use Vapor Snag as removal, but as an effective counter to Birthing Pod itself. It is an artifact. Their deck is a lot less menacing without it, amounting to a collection of varied EtB that may or may not be pertinent to your game plan. If Vapor Snag is only truly useful against Tempered Steel, I can't justify having it in my 75, but I suspect its use can be wider.
Do you mean steel sabotage? If so, I agree the card is amazing against a lot of decks.
It has only happened once, I think, that someone has caught on to the phantasmal image shenanigans, so that use is pretty narrow for me, my DoJs are happy in the sideboard
If that's the case then they fit snuggly in the sidebaord. I guess I overestimate how often that happens because when playtesting with friends I explain exactly how it's supposed to work before hand, making day of judgement get a lot better results than it would under normal conditions.
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Oh, embarassing, I meant Steel Sabotage yes. Vapor snag is not my style so much - I'm hesitant to trade card advantage for tempo. Could be useful against aggro, as you tried to explain to me
So, Steel Sabotage vs Birthing Pod, so you think it makes sense? I'm looking at running 2-3 in the sideboard.
Steel sabotage is good no question. Tho if u run white u have an option to outright destroy birthing pod rather then send it back to the hand. I forget the spell but it gains you life as well. A good 1, 2 punch to birthing pod players.
Yes, Revoke Existence is definitely the best direct answer to Birthing Pod in U/W illusions. Steel Sabotage is great if you manage to use it as a counter, but against a resolved pod it only provides a small amount of tempo advantage.
It depends I think. If pod players have ways to recur there pofs then sure. But also other decks run artifacts as well. Aggros burning shrine for example. I think the lifegain of divine offering could be relevant
Other decks run enchantments as well. O-ring for example. Why not take up a sideboard slot and get more than one use out of it? Revoke > Divine against Wurmcoil as well.
Other decks run enchantments as well. O-ring for example. Why not take up a sideboard slot and get more than one use out of it? Revoke > Divine against Wurmcoil as well.
I'm not saying its better thrn revoke. Just that it could have its place. Agreed on the wurmcoil tho. Nothing like taking that out with revoke and looki7ng at the crestfallen expression on your foes!
Sabotage may be cheaper but revoke is the same cost as mana leak and is more permanent then sabotage. Divine is even better vs aggro runnning artifacts but may be unneeeded with things like timely reinforcements and mental misstep already
Revoke existence is probably the better option in nine out of ten cases. The one exception is if you play a lot of permission. Divine offering is pretty bad most times. Exiling the artifact is really relevant. Life gain isn't really that relevant. Countering is only relevant if they're are a fair number of good enter the battlefield effects on artifacts, and there aren't enough.
Revoke wins, followed by steel sabotage in the right meta.
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One good thing I can see is only keeping one up for Steel Sabotage lets players perhaps drop their guard thinking we aren't holding up mana for a mana leak. Can help a bit with the bluffing game against decks that are artifact heavy. Puresteel, Tempered, some ramp decks, Splinter Twin with Everflowing Chalice, Pod etc.
I dunno what the confusion is. We mostly play Tapout control in U/W anyway.
I agree with this completely.
Once I go U/W, I'm switching out Sabotages for Revokes. Exiling is better than just destroying. The lifegain is negligible if they can simply recur and win. (Or if they get two 3/3 wurm tokens)
One good thing I can see is only keeping one up for Steel Sabotage lets players perhaps drop their guard thinking we aren't holding up mana for a mana leak. Can help a bit with the bluffing game against decks that are artifact heavy. Puresteel, Tempered, some ramp decks, Splinter Twin with Everflowing Chalice, Pod etc.
O.o
That is very clever. Very deceptive. I'm so doing that in my fish deck.
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If artifacts are really that crazy in your meta, I see no issue with running both, even in SB. We have a lot of TS decks around here, so I'm not taking chances.
Pod isn't really an aggro deck. They play creatures that gain incremental advantage with their effects, or gather silver bullets against the opposing deck. Without those abilities the deck falls apart, which is why torpor orb is so amazing. Removal isn't so great, because chances are the damage has already been done, and you're just annoying them. Having said that, the card is amazing against aggro decks. It wins on tempo alone. I like the card, but feel that it belongs in fish and similar mana tight, tempo lists, like fish.
Day of judgment owns a resolved grave titan I understand what your saying though. It can often feel like a dead card against control. The thing is it serves an alternate purpose. It "resets" your phantasmal images if your opponent catches on. They really are better in the yard if the game goes too long, and a wise opponent will make sure that doesn't happen by when you want it to. Day of judgment is the "dredge" part of the deck if it comes to that. It may not seem important, but it is often relevent against an opponent who uderstands the finer details of the deck. However, if that is the only purpose it serves I can understand lowering it to two. If you don't expect your opponent to know this stuff, you can cut it completely, but it will hurt if you play against someone who does understand how to play against your deck.
From how you describe playing the deck, 24 lands seems like the right number for your's. Trying to hard cast sun titan off 22 lands is why I upped it to 24, and later 26 out of preference. There is a slight difference between 24 and 26 lands, but it only changes gameplay. Ironically, 26 lands is more inclined to play like a midrange deck, and 24 lands is inclined to play like a control deck. Again, it's a personal preference. I've had no signifigent difference in match ups between the two.
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Yes, I understand how Pod decks work - I'm not suggesting to use Vapor Snag as removal, but as an effective counter to Birthing Pod itself. It is an artifact. Their deck is a lot less menacing without it, amounting to a collection of varied EtB that may or may not be pertinent to your game plan. If Vapor Snag is only truly useful against Tempered Steel, I can't justify having it in my 75, but I suspect its use can be wider.
It has only happened once, I think, that someone has caught on to the phantasmal image shenanigans, so that use is pretty narrow for me, my DoJs are happy in the sideboard
Yeah, I'll try with 24, it'll be torture deciding what to cut but I'll find something. Maybe my two Into the Roils - they haven't seen as much use as the rest.
Do you mean steel sabotage? If so, I agree the card is amazing against a lot of decks.
If that's the case then they fit snuggly in the sidebaord. I guess I overestimate how often that happens because when playtesting with friends I explain exactly how it's supposed to work before hand, making day of judgement get a lot better results than it would under normal conditions.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
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So, Steel Sabotage vs Birthing Pod, so you think it makes sense? I'm looking at running 2-3 in the sideboard.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/2820-tradesies
It depends I think. If pod players have ways to recur there pofs then sure. But also other decks run artifacts as well. Aggros burning shrine for example. I think the lifegain of divine offering could be relevant
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/2820-tradesies
I'm not saying its better thrn revoke. Just that it could have its place. Agreed on the wurmcoil tho. Nothing like taking that out with revoke and looki7ng at the crestfallen expression on your foes!
Sabotage may be cheaper but revoke is the same cost as mana leak and is more permanent then sabotage. Divine is even better vs aggro runnning artifacts but may be unneeeded with things like timely reinforcements and mental misstep already
In Mono-U, you obviously want Steel Sabotage.
I dunno what the confusion is. We mostly play Tapout control in U/W anyway.
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Revoke existence is probably the better option in nine out of ten cases. The one exception is if you play a lot of permission. Divine offering is pretty bad most times. Exiling the artifact is really relevant. Life gain isn't really that relevant. Countering is only relevant if they're are a fair number of good enter the battlefield effects on artifacts, and there aren't enough.
Revoke wins, followed by steel sabotage in the right meta.
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I agree with this completely.
Once I go U/W, I'm switching out Sabotages for Revokes. Exiling is better than just destroying. The lifegain is negligible if they can simply recur and win. (Or if they get two 3/3 wurm tokens)
O.o
That is very clever. Very deceptive. I'm so doing that in my fish deck.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
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4 Phantasmal Bear
4 Lord of the Unreal
4 Phantasmal Image
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Phantasmal Dragon
Spells: 21
4 Ponder
3 Despise
4 Altar's Reap
4 Mana Leak
2 Disperse
4 Dismember
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Drowned Catacomb
14 Island
1 Swamp
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Tribute to Hunger
2 Black Sun's Zenith
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Master Thief
2 Wurmcoil Engine
This is my U/B Illusion Deck. Any insight would be very appreciated.
(the whole set is spoiled so we can talk about rotation from what I understand)