Haven't posted a decklist in what seems like forever but here's my go at it with a little counter action. I know that in posting this I will be criticized for 1. blue in general and 2. channelers. IMHO they are both great anti-Valakut tech. But I'd still like any kind of feedback.
I like dropping the fauna shaman and vengevine package since itsnproven weak vs valakut. I also like how you cane make use of mul daya channelers and sylvan ranger. The problem is you are risking slowing down the deck for what is right now only 2 counter spells. I would go up to 6-7 counter spells, max sylvan ranger and remove lead the stampede from the mainboard.
You need a tutor, especially for ezuri, so you can use either green sun's zenith or fauna shaman for that. I think GSZ is faster, cheaper and more efficient overall. Without the need to discard vengevine, it is all around better.
I would be very hesitant to ditch vengevine/fauna shaman... they're not the best ever against valakut, but they're very good against the rest of the meta, and they're really the only "good" card advantage engine we have.
Viridian Corrupter does something useful, but at a crowded casting cost.
Phyrexian Metamorph to duplicate the opponent's stuff and our combo pieces. Not green for GSZ.
I thought you guys were talking about replacing Fauna Shaman and Vengevine to better your Valakut match up. The cards you listed don't help your cause.
My only hesitation with GSZ is that it itself is not a creature and doesn't really do much for speed. Channelers and LtS really benefit from a half-creature deck. For those of you not diggin channelers I'd really suggest at least playtesting them. They aren't random (you get one of two options, alterable with fetches, and both options are good early game and beyond that, it doesn't really matter since the deck loses if things go to a late game anyway) and pack a heck of a punch in both of their career fields--as far as more counterspells... Hm more testing needed
I've tested Channelers many times. Every time they have sucked. They are never what I want when I want them. They weren't good enough in Block and they're certainly not good enough in Standard.
And there are three options: Creature, Land, Other. The more Other you add to the deck, the worse they get. Channelers are the current Talara's Battalion. They look promising and I'm sure someone made them work once, but they are unreliable, constrain the deck unnecessarily and have too high of variance.
I guess my point was that with only a few noncreature spells you don't run that risk too often and with fetches you have the ability to switch the top card, making the third option a pretty small problem. Either way--whether you like Channelers or you run something else instead (VV), do people feel as if elves will be able to take on a Valakut/red-filled meta?
The problem is that you limit your Other options if you do. LtS and GSZ are crazy good cards. Running Channeler instead of them is a mistake.
Elves is still fine. It will require some changes, but that's ok. Baloth and Spell Skite get better. Copperhorn gets worse.
Or splash for other colors. White gives you Leylines and Firewalker. Black gives you Memoricide. Blue gives you counters. There is still Wurmcoil Engine as well.
In accordance with CorpT's much needed advice, I have created an improvisational decklist better suited to what (I think) the new meta will look like.
With the pre-ban meta being so control intensive, Caw's ubiquitous presence necessitated a devoted aggro list dedicated to stomping the poop out of opponents quickly and consistently. But given--at least speculatively--the mass resurgence of Valakut and RDW's popularity, I feel like our build should be more balanced. Diluting our own threats may seem unwise, but it's a necessary evil to effectively handle RDW, Valakut, Vamps, and Big Red G1.
So here's my list. Still playing with some different ideas, but it's been doing very well.
No Tec Edges, because I feel like that's a weak answer to Valakut in Elves, since the land count is already pretty cramped. Acidic Slime seems better since Fauna can fetch it and elves generally aren't mana-sensitive unless you keep a one-land hand or just get screwed.
SB:
x4 Leyline of Vitality
x3 Spellskite
x3 Beast Within
x2 Creeping Corrosion
x2 Naturalize
x1 Obstinate Baloth
In accordance with CorpT's much needed advice, I have created an improvisational decklist better suited to what (I think) the new meta will look like.
With the pre-ban meta being so control intensive, Caw's ubiquitous presence necessitated a devoted aggro list dedicated to stomping the poop out of opponents quickly and consistently. But given--at least speculatively--the mass resurgence of Valakut and RDW's popularity, I feel like our build should be more balanced. Diluting our own threats may seem unwise, but it's a necessary evil to effectively handle RDW, Valakut, Vamps, and Big Red G1.
So here's my list. Still playing with some different ideas, but it's been doing very well.
No Tec Edges, because I feel like that's a weak answer to Valakut in Elves, since the land count is already pretty cramped. Acidic Slime seems better since Fauna can fetch it and elves generally aren't mana-sensitive unless you keep a one-land hand or just get screwed.
SB:
x4 Leyline of Vitality
x3 Spellskite
x3 Beast Within
x2 Creeping Corrosion
x2 Naturalize
x1 Obstinate Baloth
I generally like this build, although I would probably sub in Warcallers for the Superion, as I'm not a fan of them really. I might also play Sylvan Rangers in place of the Treespeakers, and play a few Oran-riefs in place of forests. It's important to have enough land out when playing mass removal decks. I'm still considering Nissa as well in the new meta.
Quick query, but if you attack with two Copperhorn Scouts, do both triggers stack one at a time, allowing you to tap and untap Archdruid/Shaman once for each scout?
yup, so if you have something like:
dork, scout, scout, druid, ezuri, you can triple overrun.
I generally like this build, although I would probably sub in Warcallers for the Superion, as I'm not a fan of them really. I might also play Sylvan Rangers in place of the Treespeakers, and play a few Oran-riefs in place of forests. It's important to have enough land out when playing mass removal decks. I'm still considering Nissa as well in the new meta.
I've also thought about Warcallers and Oran-Rief, just haven't been a fan of them in the past, as Warcaller usually died to spot removal or got Jace-bounced, and Oran-Rief comes into play tapped, which stunts curving.
Nissa seems much better in this format with the life-gain. Worth a try.
Also, what are people's thoughts on Eldrazi Monument? I have personally included a good number of beefy artifact creatures in my build because I can get away with it in the new meta, given artifacts hate's drop in viability.
Here are 2 decklists I'm testing. They don't have Fauna, or Venge, but you can easily fit them in by taking out the zeniths, acidic slimes, or Karns.
This is a basic aggro elves, where I play as many elves asap. Slimes mainboard to slow down valakut. 1 Leatherback to help vs RDW. IMO, sideboard has good coverage.
The this deck can win by getting ezuri out with lots of mana, or getting out a powerful Masticore, or Wurmcoil. Obstinate baloth mainboard to help with survival since using genesis wave take a little longer to activate than simple elves aggro. The OB and AS also make great ETB effects combined with genesis wave.
I've also thought about Warcallers and Oran-Rief, just haven't been a fan of them in the past, as Warcaller usually died to spot removal or got Jace-bounced, and Oran-Rief comes into play tapped, which stunts curving.
Nissa seems much better in this format with the life-gain. Worth a try.
Also, what are people's thoughts on Eldrazi Monument? I have personally included a good number of beefy artifact creatures in my build because I can get away with it in the new meta, given artifacts hate's drop in viability.
Nissa has worked pretty well for me. 2 of her and 4 nissa's chosen takes up a lot of space, so that's something to consider. I also run a khalni hydra and blightsteel colossus in case it gets too late in the game, the fauna shaman can fetch them. The hydra has worked well and can be played early..no experience with the colossus though. I may take it out after some testing. I have the most trouble with aggro RDW.
If you ever get to 12 mana, you're better off casting genesis wave or some other kind of mana dump. Nissa Revane and Chosen should be a 2/2 split. NEVER 4 Chosen. If you're having trouble with RDW, bring in 3-4 Leatherback Baloths and 3 Obstinate Baloths. Back to back baloths on them is gg.
If you ever get to 12 mana, you're better off casting genesis wave or some other kind of mana dump. Nissa Revane and Chosen should be a 2/2 split. NEVER 4 Chosen. If you're having trouble with RDW, bring in 3-4 Leatherback Baloths and 3 Obstinate Baloths. Back to back baloths on them is gg.
Agreed. Honestly, just ONE Baloth creates a huge problem for them. They can't handle a 4/5 or a 4/4 that nets you 4 life.
With the death of cawblade and rise of valakut, would it be better to MD baloths (obstinate/leatherback)? This way you would better your chances against many of the other aggro decks (RDW, vamps), and help vs valakut to net more life, beat down. Or is it still just a local meta choice? My meta right now is mostly valakut, RDW and RUG twin after cawblade dies.
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Take a mechanic from the pre-mirrodin era, and a mechanic after the mirrodin era, and create a card that flavorfully melds both mechanics.
I'm wondering if Leatherback Baloth and Obstinate Baloth could be put into a straight stompy deck with Garruk and his Companion that would be really excellent against all the red in the meta. That would be a different deck though. I'm not sure you'd want to throw too many non-elves into an elfball type deck, although LBB would be the a good choice to pick if you did.
Leatherback Baloth or Obstinate Baloth doesn't do anything against Valakut.
They don't die to Pyroclasm or Slagstorm. The only other after that is Beast Within to stop Titans, but that's far from ideal. You'll only get a few uses out of Dismembering a blocking Titan. It may be back to the plan of sideing in Memoricide to deal with Titans.
Leatherback Baloth or Obstinate Baloth doesn't do anything against Valakut.
Doesn't die to Slagstorm/Clasm, but they weren't boarded with Valakut in mind. Not really meant for Valakut. Wurmcoil Engines and Acidic Slime are great for that.
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Morrissey is god.
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Standard - None | Commander[EDH] - The Mimeoplasm | Legacy - Mono-W 60 Land Basic
This is also my 666 post. funny it had the word fineral in it.
Currently playing in Modern:
BBB8Rack
Currently Playing in Legacy:
Foil BELCHER
"Never interrupt your opponent while he's making a mistake"
13 Forest
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
Spells
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Arbor Elf
1 Joraga Treespeaker
3 Joraga Warcaller
4 Sylvan Ranger
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
4 Leatherback Baloth
1 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Unified Will
4 Lead the Stampede
2 Beast Within
2 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
2 Beast Within
3 Creeping Corrosion
3 Obstinate Baloth
3 Leyline of Vitality
2 Mana Leak
Signature by KrackShott at Kracked Graphics!
Current Deck(s):
GUElvesUG
GWBThe Birthing RockBWG
You need a tutor, especially for ezuri, so you can use either green sun's zenith or fauna shaman for that. I think GSZ is faster, cheaper and more efficient overall. Without the need to discard vengevine, it is all around better.
I thought you guys were talking about replacing Fauna Shaman and Vengevine to better your Valakut match up. The cards you listed don't help your cause.
Signature by KrackShott at Kracked Graphics!
Current Deck(s):
GUElvesUG
GWBThe Birthing RockBWG
And there are three options: Creature, Land, Other. The more Other you add to the deck, the worse they get. Channelers are the current Talara's Battalion. They look promising and I'm sure someone made them work once, but they are unreliable, constrain the deck unnecessarily and have too high of variance.
Signature by KrackShott at Kracked Graphics!
Current Deck(s):
GUElvesUG
GWBThe Birthing RockBWG
Elves is still fine. It will require some changes, but that's ok. Baloth and Spell Skite get better. Copperhorn gets worse.
Or splash for other colors. White gives you Leylines and Firewalker. Black gives you Memoricide. Blue gives you counters. There is still Wurmcoil Engine as well.
Improvise. Adapt. Overcome.
With the pre-ban meta being so control intensive, Caw's ubiquitous presence necessitated a devoted aggro list dedicated to stomping the poop out of opponents quickly and consistently. But given--at least speculatively--the mass resurgence of Valakut and RDW's popularity, I feel like our build should be more balanced. Diluting our own threats may seem unwise, but it's a necessary evil to effectively handle RDW, Valakut, Vamps, and Big Red G1.
So here's my list. Still playing with some different ideas, but it's been doing very well.
x4 Llanowar Elves
x3 Arbor Elf
x3 Joraga Treespeaker
x3 Copperhorn Scout
x4 Fauna Shaman
x2 Myr Superion
x2 Leatherback Baloth
x3 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
x4 Elvish Archdruid
x4 Vengevine
x2 Acidic Slime
x2 Wurmcoil Engine
x1 Steel Hellkite
x4 Lead the Stampede
x19 Forests
No Tec Edges, because I feel like that's a weak answer to Valakut in Elves, since the land count is already pretty cramped. Acidic Slime seems better since Fauna can fetch it and elves generally aren't mana-sensitive unless you keep a one-land hand or just get screwed.
SB:
x4 Leyline of Vitality
x3 Spellskite
x3 Beast Within
x2 Creeping Corrosion
x2 Naturalize
x1 Obstinate Baloth
I generally like this build, although I would probably sub in Warcallers for the Superion, as I'm not a fan of them really. I might also play Sylvan Rangers in place of the Treespeakers, and play a few Oran-riefs in place of forests. It's important to have enough land out when playing mass removal decks. I'm still considering Nissa as well in the new meta.
yup, so if you have something like:
dork, scout, scout, druid, ezuri, you can triple overrun.
I've also thought about Warcallers and Oran-Rief, just haven't been a fan of them in the past, as Warcaller usually died to spot removal or got Jace-bounced, and Oran-Rief comes into play tapped, which stunts curving.
Nissa seems much better in this format with the life-gain. Worth a try.
Also, what are people's thoughts on Eldrazi Monument? I have personally included a good number of beefy artifact creatures in my build because I can get away with it in the new meta, given artifacts hate's drop in viability.
This is a basic aggro elves, where I play as many elves asap. Slimes mainboard to slow down valakut. 1 Leatherback to help vs RDW. IMO, sideboard has good coverage.
4 Elvish Archdruid
3 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
3 Joraga Treespeaker
4 Joraga Warcaller
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Arbor Elf
2 Copperhorn Scout
3 Sylvan Ranger
4 Acidic Slime
1 Leatherback Baloth
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Karn Liberated
3 Lead the Stampede
Lands
2 Mystifying Maze
16 Forest
4 Nature's Claim
3 Leyline of Vitality
3 Obstinate Baloth
3 Beast Within
2 Viridian Corrupter
The this deck can win by getting ezuri out with lots of mana, or getting out a powerful Masticore, or Wurmcoil. Obstinate baloth mainboard to help with survival since using genesis wave take a little longer to activate than simple elves aggro. The OB and AS also make great ETB effects combined with genesis wave.
4 Elvish Archdruid
3 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
3 Joraga Treespeaker
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Arbor Elf
4 Copperhorn Scout
4 Sylvan Ranger
4 Acidic Slime
1 Molten-Tail Masticore
1 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Obstinate Baloth
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Genesis Wave
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Lead the Stampede
Lands
2 Mystifying Maze
16 Forest
2 Viridian Corrupter
4 Nature's Claim
3 Leyline of Vitality
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Karn Liberated
Both of these decks are as much anti-valakut and anti-rdw as I could go with elves in mono-green.
Nissa has worked pretty well for me. 2 of her and 4 nissa's chosen takes up a lot of space, so that's something to consider. I also run a khalni hydra and blightsteel colossus in case it gets too late in the game, the fauna shaman can fetch them. The hydra has worked well and can be played early..no experience with the colossus though. I may take it out after some testing. I have the most trouble with aggro RDW.
Agreed. Honestly, just ONE Baloth creates a huge problem for them. They can't handle a 4/5 or a 4/4 that nets you 4 life.
Take a mechanic from the pre-mirrodin era, and a mechanic after the mirrodin era, and create a card that flavorfully melds both mechanics.
Signature by KrackShott at Kracked Graphics!
Current Deck(s):
GUElvesUG
GWBThe Birthing RockBWG
They don't die to Pyroclasm or Slagstorm. The only other after that is Beast Within to stop Titans, but that's far from ideal. You'll only get a few uses out of Dismembering a blocking Titan. It may be back to the plan of sideing in Memoricide to deal with Titans.
Doesn't die to Slagstorm/Clasm, but they weren't boarded with Valakut in mind. Not really meant for Valakut. Wurmcoil Engines and Acidic Slime are great for that.