LSV and the gang ran with Origin Spellbombs because they needed to dig for their Hero / Tempered Steel to win. With Steel Overseer in Standard, I say Spellbomb is too slow, and if you really want the digging you'll be much happier with Gambit or Preordain.
@5840: Oblivion Ring does seem very nice in the sideboard, but I can't see it going maindeck anytime soon.
Phyrexian Revoker die too easily. Control decks got a lot of creature removals. Aggro decks got dismember or bolt for him. Same reason why Leonin Relic-Warder does not see play.
I expect Hero of Bladehold will see a lot more play when this deck becomes popular and people start sideboarding Creeping Corrosion. A non-artifact bomb is what this deck needed at this situation. That's the reason this little girl is included in PT Nagoya decklists.
Origin Spellbomb - Mediocre. Your best case scenario is to pull them after you already have a Tempered Steel out, so you get a 3/3 and cantrip for 2W. The extra card draw is really nice, but if that's why you're running them you're better off putting that mana into a Tezzeret's Gambit anyways.
Hero of Bladehold - Personally I don't like it. The extra attackers die way too easily, and you'll get at best one attack out of her before your opponent focuses all their removal on her. But a lot of people like it, so who knows.
Phyrexian Revoker - Depends on your meta, but I'd say they're very good, especially for hosing planeswalkers.
Phyrexian Metamorph - I mainboard two and have never been sad to see one. Hmm yes nice 6/6 Titan, I think I'll just drop my own 8/8 titan for half the cost.
What about the new Crumbling Colossus? Too much mana cost? Drawback too big?
Well, add the Sundial and end your turn at the end of combat step, so he never goes away! I mean, really, how much do you do after combat in your turn? Basically, you pass at that point anyway. He's a good blocker and finisher until you get the Sundial in play and the sundial by itself stops them from pulling any nasty tricks on your attack phase. It can save your creatures from bad blocks, combat shenanigans and untimely removal.
In my testing and some feedback in the old thread, I think RDW is a very tough matchup. Always burn off you guys so that you can't achieve metalcraft, and lose a lot of tempo.
However when I visit RDW forum, the players complain that Steel is a tough matchup. Seem strange.
I'm trying 2x Firewalker and 2x Timely Reinforcement to improve this matchup. Against Goblins, Timely Reinforcement seems a lot better. Against big red Firewalker is much better. Not sure about KOTH/shrine midrange RDW.
In my testing and some feedback in the old thread, I think RDW is a very tough matchup. Always burn off you guys so that you can't achieve metalcraft, and lose a lot of tempo.
However when I visit RDW forum, the players complain that Steel is a tough matchup. Seem strange.
I'm trying 2x Firewalker and 2x Timely Reinforcement to improve this matchup. Against Goblins, Timely Reinforcement seems a lot better. Against big red Firewalker is much better. Not sure about KOTH/shrine midrange RDW.
If you get a skite on turn two it nearly shuts down there burn and with additional supplements to add from the sb like Firewalker and others I'd say steel is the favored in the match up.
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Thanks to Hakai Studios for the awesome sig! Currently running in Legacy: BWRUGDredgeGURWB
Yeah, Steel is just as fast if not faster than RDW, and white has so many sideboard options for RDW that Steel should have very little trouble winning.
Could someone go over some sideboard strategy for this deck. I see a lot of the same cards in folks sideboards and I'd be curious to know how folks are using them. For example, Shrine in side comes in again what exactly? Aggro?
Shrine is good against aggro, but it can also be a real power card against UW control, considering it survives Day of Judgment. At this point, you typically wait for it to be hit with spot removal such as Into the Roil or Oblivion Ring and sac it in response. You now have a small army and have effectively 2-for-1ed on a card that's just made to sit there anyway.
Could someone go over some sideboard strategy for this deck. I see a lot of the same cards in folks sideboards and I'd be curious to know how folks are using them. For example, Shrine in side comes in again what exactly? Aggro?
Here's some that I can think of, there's probably a few more though.
Shrine of Loyal Legions - Good for recovering from sweepers and decks that use a lot of removal
Celestial Purge - Mostly for hitting Splinter Twin, also useful against red decks, Vampires, and Grave Titans.
Phyrexian Revoker - Use to shut off planeswalkers or mana dorks in ramp decks. Some people also mainboard this.
Spell Pierce/Mana Leak/Unified Will - used in the W/U versions to stop planeswalkers, sweepers, and other problematic cards from resolving. Pierce is the best option IMO but some pros seem to like Mana Leak better.
Oblivion Ring - Catch-all answer for everything but lands. Also a bit on the expensive side for us though
Dismember - Extra removal if necessary. Cheap to cast, doesn't require metalcraft and deals with almost as many targets as Dispatch. Some lists also run 1 or 2 maindeck.
Hero of Bladehold - Good against control decks, especially if they resolve a board wipe. Some people like to maindeck them as well.
Revoke Existence/Divine Offering - these were better when Caw-Blade was dominating and before Oblivion Ring was brought back to Standard but if Caw rises again they may see play.
Refraction Trap - Absolutely wrecks red decks and protects your guys from their burn.
Kor Firewalker - Some people still sideboard this to beat red decks, but I think it's a poor choice because a) Red decks can kill it with Shrine of Burning Rage or Dismember and b) it doesn't benefit from Tempered Steel or Steel Overseer.
Here's some that I can think of, there's probably a few more though.
Shrine of Loyal Legions - Good for recovering from sweepers and decks that use a lot of removal
Celestial Purge - Mostly for hitting Splinter Twin, also useful against red decks, Vampires, and Grave Titans.
Phyrexian Revoker - Use to shut off planeswalkers or mana dorks in ramp decks. Some people also mainboard this.
Spell Pierce/Mana Leak/Unified Will - used in the W/U versions to stop planeswalkers, sweepers, and other problematic cards from resolving. Pierce is the best option IMO but some pros seem to like Mana Leak better.
Oblivion Ring - Catch-all answer for everything but lands. Also a bit on the expensive side for us though
Dismember - Extra removal if necessary. Cheap to cast, doesn't require metalcraft and deals with almost as many targets as Dispatch. Some lists also run 1 or 2 maindeck.
Hero of Bladehold - Good against control decks, especially if they resolve a board wipe. Some people like to maindeck them as well.
Revoke Existence/Divine Offering - these were better when Caw-Blade was dominating and before Oblivion Ring was brought back to Standard but if Caw rises again they may see play.
Refraction Trap - Absolutely wrecks red decks and protects your guys from their burn.
Kor Firewalker - Some people still sideboard this to beat red decks, but I think it's a poor choice because a) Red decks can kill it with Shrine of Burning Rage or Dismember and b) it doesn't benefit from Tempered Steel or Steel Overseer.
What about Phyrexian Metamorph?
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Phyrexian Metamorph is one of those "maybe good, maybe useless" cards. Since it can be anything, it has a lot of versatility and resilience against most anything. One of the most hilarious wins I've had with it is using it against somebody who sligh'ed in a Emrakul during my turn (Quicksilver Amulet). I was reeling after their attack, but since I got to copy Emrakul (thus meeting the "casting" requirement), I got an extra turn whereas they did not.
Thus, the word on Phyrexian Metamorph? Situationally useful.
Phyrexian Metamorph is one of those "maybe good, maybe useless" cards. Since it can be anything, it has a lot of versatility and resilience against most anything. One of the most hilarious wins I've had with it is using it against somebody who sligh'ed in a Emrakul during my turn (Quicksilver Amulet). I was reeling after their attack, but since I got to copy Emrakul (thus meeting the "casting" requirement), I got an extra turn whereas they did not.
Thus, the word on Phyrexian Metamorph? Situationally useful.
That's why its in my sb, was just pointing out that Dromar forgot a potentially powerful card.
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Well, I did say I was missing some cards but yeah I'll echo what others said about Phyrexian Metamorph, it's awesome for killing off legends you otherwise couldn't touch (Emrakul, Ulamog, Thrun) and also for copying a Titan (and getting an 8/8 Titan if you have Tempered Steel in play)
Metamorph doesn't seem useful. We don't want to copy a Titan, we want to swing past it (removing it if necessary) and win. We don't need to answer Thrun. We don't even really need to answer Emrakul or Ulamog, unless your metagame has an unusual number of Eldrazi Green decks playing Amulet (which is probably easier to attack than Emrakul is).
Well, I did say I was missing some cards but yeah I'll echo what others said about Phyrexian Metamorph, it's awesome for killing off legends you otherwise couldn't touch (Emrakul, Ulamog, Thrun) and also for copying a Titan (and getting an 8/8 Titan if you have Tempered Steel in play)
Yeah sorry about that didn't mean to insinuate anything but that definitely is a good sb list.
Metamorph doesn't seem useful. We don't want to copy a Titan, we want to swing past it (removing it if necessary) and win. We don't need to answer Thrun. We don't even really need to answer Emrakul or Ulamog, unless your metagame has an unusual number of Eldrazi Green decks playing Amulet (which is probably easier to attack than Emrakul is).
I'm more concerned about obliterator and grave titan.
Just tested tonight. Valakut seems a tough matchup. 2 win 3 lost before sideboarding.
*Turn 2 Pyroclasm will kill more than half of your guys - people maindeck it now to prepare for RDW probably. It also make Dispatch useless.
*Turn 4 Urabrask is scary. If you use a removal on it you probably can't deal with Titan; if you don't use a removal on it you will face a Titan the triggered at least once, and Urabrask will still swing for damages.
*Inferno Titan act like Pyroclasm or removal for lords if you don't draw Tempered Steel.
*Some build got Beast Within (maindeck?) to kill Tempered Steel. Definitely Nature's Claim after SB.
Any possible solution?
Suggestion 1: 3x Act of aggression on SB? --> This leads to the idea of playing Teetering Peaks...I put 1 maindeck replacing a Plains. It's not completely useless if not facing Valakut, but occasionally make me color screwed. Thoughts?
Suggestion 2: Boarding in Kor Firewalker to dodge Pyroclasm? But it doesn't have bonus from Overseer and Tempered Steel.
Suggestion 3: Phyrexian Metamorph copying Glint Hawk Idol...need good draw to get this going.
Suggestion 4: Board in dismember to take out Lotus Cobra or Overgrown Battlements to slow them down?
*Kor Firewalker may be valid against sweepers, but a bit slow as it doesn't get the pumps from lords and tempered steel.
*celestial purge only target one thing: Inferno Titan. Maybe Urabrask in some Valakut build. Doesn't destroy Primeval Titan and Valakut which is the first thing Valakut players would like to get and win. Maybe a bit narrow against Valakut.
*Valakut combo off turn 5 and win. At best you only get 2 1/1 dude at turn 4 where opponent will put down a Titan already. Really need to SIDE OUT shrine of loyal legion in this matchup as it's way too slow.
I run a pretty standard UW build and I don't see how Valakut is a strong matchup. Sure we are fast, but Valakut is just way faster. Plus there's no way to protect your creatures against the massive colourless land damage that comes immediately after they get their Titan into play unless you are so lucky to get two Tempered Steel or Steel Overseer out really early.
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Please play Inkmoth Nexus.
LSV and the gang ran with Origin Spellbombs because they needed to dig for their Hero / Tempered Steel to win. With Steel Overseer in Standard, I say Spellbomb is too slow, and if you really want the digging you'll be much happier with Gambit or Preordain.
@5840: Oblivion Ring does seem very nice in the sideboard, but I can't see it going maindeck anytime soon.
I expect Hero of Bladehold will see a lot more play when this deck becomes popular and people start sideboarding Creeping Corrosion. A non-artifact bomb is what this deck needed at this situation. That's the reason this little girl is included in PT Nagoya decklists.
Oh and two things.
One, How many moxes? 2 or 3?
And two...
TEMPERED STEEL WON JAPAN'S NATIONALS
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
And yap, even won off some mulls.
Well, add the Sundial and end your turn at the end of combat step, so he never goes away! I mean, really, how much do you do after combat in your turn? Basically, you pass at that point anyway. He's a good blocker and finisher until you get the Sundial in play and the sundial by itself stops them from pulling any nasty tricks on your attack phase. It can save your creatures from bad blocks, combat shenanigans and untimely removal.
In my testing and some feedback in the old thread, I think RDW is a very tough matchup. Always burn off you guys so that you can't achieve metalcraft, and lose a lot of tempo.
However when I visit RDW forum, the players complain that Steel is a tough matchup. Seem strange.
I'm trying 2x Firewalker and 2x Timely Reinforcement to improve this matchup. Against Goblins, Timely Reinforcement seems a lot better. Against big red Firewalker is much better. Not sure about KOTH/shrine midrange RDW.
If you get a skite on turn two it nearly shuts down there burn and with additional supplements to add from the sb like Firewalker and others I'd say steel is the favored in the match up.
Thanks to Hakai Studios for the awesome sig!
Currently running in Legacy:
BWRUGDredgeGURWB
I've been playing this deck for a long time. This is the version I've been playing online and at FNM.
16 Plains
4 Memnite
4 Signal Pest
4 Steel Overseer
4 Vault Skirge
4 Spellskite
3 Blade Splicer
4 Glint Hawk Idol
4 Dispatch
2 Dismember
3 Mox Opal
3 Act of Aggression
3 Celestial Purge
4 Kor Firewalker
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Shrine of Loyal Legions
I know I know I still need some and also Spellskites.
Here's some that I can think of, there's probably a few more though.
Shrine of Loyal Legions - Good for recovering from sweepers and decks that use a lot of removal
Celestial Purge - Mostly for hitting Splinter Twin, also useful against red decks, Vampires, and Grave Titans.
Phyrexian Revoker - Use to shut off planeswalkers or mana dorks in ramp decks. Some people also mainboard this.
Spell Pierce/Mana Leak/Unified Will - used in the W/U versions to stop planeswalkers, sweepers, and other problematic cards from resolving. Pierce is the best option IMO but some pros seem to like Mana Leak better.
Oblivion Ring - Catch-all answer for everything but lands. Also a bit on the expensive side for us though
Dismember - Extra removal if necessary. Cheap to cast, doesn't require metalcraft and deals with almost as many targets as Dispatch. Some lists also run 1 or 2 maindeck.
Hero of Bladehold - Good against control decks, especially if they resolve a board wipe. Some people like to maindeck them as well.
Revoke Existence/Divine Offering - these were better when Caw-Blade was dominating and before Oblivion Ring was brought back to Standard but if Caw rises again they may see play.
Refraction Trap - Absolutely wrecks red decks and protects your guys from their burn.
Kor Firewalker - Some people still sideboard this to beat red decks, but I think it's a poor choice because a) Red decks can kill it with Shrine of Burning Rage or Dismember and b) it doesn't benefit from Tempered Steel or Steel Overseer.
What about Phyrexian Metamorph?
Thanks to Hakai Studios for the awesome sig!
Currently running in Legacy:
BWRUGDredgeGURWB
Thus, the word on Phyrexian Metamorph? Situationally useful.
That's why its in my sb, was just pointing out that Dromar forgot a potentially powerful card.
Thanks to Hakai Studios for the awesome sig!
Currently running in Legacy:
BWRUGDredgeGURWB
Metamorph copies opposing Titans or legend rule Eldrazis.
:symwr:BorosBGR Living End(Primer) W Soul Sisters Tokens
UGrand Architect+Pili-Pala Infinite combo:symq::chaos:
EDH:
UBGThe MimeoplasmUBG
Yeah sorry about that didn't mean to insinuate anything but that definitely is a good sb list.
I'm more concerned about obliterator and grave titan.
Thanks to Hakai Studios for the awesome sig!
Currently running in Legacy:
BWRUGDredgeGURWB
*Turn 2 Pyroclasm will kill more than half of your guys - people maindeck it now to prepare for RDW probably. It also make Dispatch useless.
*Turn 4 Urabrask is scary. If you use a removal on it you probably can't deal with Titan; if you don't use a removal on it you will face a Titan the triggered at least once, and Urabrask will still swing for damages.
*Inferno Titan act like Pyroclasm or removal for lords if you don't draw Tempered Steel.
*Some build got Beast Within (maindeck?) to kill Tempered Steel. Definitely Nature's Claim after SB.
Any possible solution?
Suggestion 1: 3x Act of aggression on SB? --> This leads to the idea of playing Teetering Peaks...I put 1 maindeck replacing a Plains. It's not completely useless if not facing Valakut, but occasionally make me color screwed. Thoughts?
Suggestion 2: Boarding in Kor Firewalker to dodge Pyroclasm? But it doesn't have bonus from Overseer and Tempered Steel.
Suggestion 3: Phyrexian Metamorph copying Glint Hawk Idol...need good draw to get this going.
Suggestion 4: Board in dismember to take out Lotus Cobra or Overgrown Battlements to slow them down?
Any others?
Thanks man. That cleared up a lot for me.
Phyrexian Revoker does nothing against titans. It only prevents activated abilities. Titan's use triggered abilities.
huh??
*Kor Firewalker may be valid against sweepers, but a bit slow as it doesn't get the pumps from lords and tempered steel.
*celestial purge only target one thing: Inferno Titan. Maybe Urabrask in some Valakut build. Doesn't destroy Primeval Titan and Valakut which is the first thing Valakut players would like to get and win. Maybe a bit narrow against Valakut.
*Valakut combo off turn 5 and win. At best you only get 2 1/1 dude at turn 4 where opponent will put down a Titan already. Really need to SIDE OUT shrine of loyal legion in this matchup as it's way too slow.