Well, the thing is, i don't like reading those articles from the various sites. The reporters are way to biased because they are instructed what to write about. It's all a way for them to make money, politics, w/e. Haters Gonna Hate!
Anyways, I just built this deck, and my meta is full of slow control decks. I may see where this deck could have issues against RDW, but with a proper board that issue can be solved. I used Goblins last night to a 4-1 record, splitting top 8. This deck i feel can have even faster starts, maybe less of a long-game than my gobs, but the fliers i pack can outrace the nastiest creatures.
But then again the mono-white version is basically a luck-sack deck anyways so I guess it doesn't matter to gamble a bit more on Glint Hawk.
This. I have only just recently given this deck a second thought, and that's thanks to the U splash. The mono-W is a mindless crap-shoot of a deck, and YES it did win in Japan. At least one idiot wins the lottery each time, but that doesn't mean that I'm gonna start wasting my time on that garbage. I prefer to rely on decks that reward skill, and adding the U splash (as well as running Spellbombs) not only allows you to survive the "later" games, but it allows you to play the deck much differently, and I have yet to lose a round since playing with it. That being said, I plan on giving the W/g list a Beastmaster list a try as I think it could be ridiculous and resilient, AND it appears to laugh in the face of any other version of the mirror.
To those discussing the "issue" of Ratchet Bomb...it isn't one. Period. If they're bringing that in against you, that's fine. You can diversify your threats and watch them as they frantically try to add the counters, but to no avail. And please, PLEASE, don't waste SB slots for it (i.e. Hex Parasite). Parasite may appear (to some of you) to be a good call against Planeswalkers, but I ask you, which is the PW you least want to see? I'll answer that for you; he's actually the only PW that you should care about AT ALL; Gideon. Now, I'll ask you another question, how often do you see yourself removing Gideon with a Parasite? That's a rhetorical question kids. Stick with O-rings, or even Mana Leak if you're in W/u
And I do like Leak other than Unified Will atm, as the new "Caw Blade" runs things that I would like to counter, but may, at times, have more creatures than we do.
For reference, I am currently running Shiels' MD with this SB:
Anyway, I am definitely gonna be testing with TS for a while, and I think that it's gonna continue to be a force to be reckoned with in the new Standard meta (at least for a couple months :-/).
Edit: Preordain >>>>>>> Ponder
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'll go against a tank with a shank for my dreams and that's my f@#$%n' word!" -Dead Prez
How do you side vs. Valakut? I let a friend borrow my W Tempered Steel and after winning game 1, he dropped the next 2 games. The Pyroclasm effects were too much and he had slow hands/draws. I'm guessing Refraction Trap is needed but we didn't put that in because it was last minute.
Also he played vs. me the next round with Elves. How should he side for this matchup? I think that he also should've mulliganed against me but didn't.
Mono white version? Honestly, you just need to play smart and use shrines.G1 you should have destroyed them. You need to drop stuff, swing in and hold some back. Just play enough to get some damage in. Refraction trap is only good in RDW because you're able to kill their creatures. Spellskite survives pyroclasm. Strangely enough you will have to play slower. Also pray that you get alot of idols. unless they have bolts they literally cannot deal with them. Thats about it. I play blue so I side in the leaks against sweepers and titan.
Against elves, its literally a race. Spot remove stuff like ezuri and just pray.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern:
Affinity
EDH:
Rhys (Tokens)
Karrthus (Dragons)
Bruna (Auras OP)
This. I have only just recently given this deck a second thought, and that's thanks to the U splash. The mono-W is a mindless crap-shoot of a deck, and YES it did win in Japan. At least one idiot wins the lottery each time, but that doesn't mean that I'm gonna start wasting my time on that garbage. I prefer to rely on decks that reward skill,
Playing an aggro deck well does require skill. I think it's hilarious that you call the white version a luck sack but think adding blue somehow makes playing it more complicated. Let me clue you in on something-it doesn't. I've played both versions, and both are about the same when it comes to making decisions and so on. I hate how people look down on very aggressive decks, even though I prefer control decks myself.
Dark Tutelage is a bit hard to run in this deck, as there's no B/W Dual Land. Relying on Mox Opal is way too risky. The chance of color screw is bigger than UW or GW builds.
And for GW build, Lead the Stampede may be better than Beastmaster, to give you protection against sweepers.
Well there is Marsh Flats 1 basic swamp if you need it or plains like normal otherwise. When I have run the Tutelage I usually only have 2-3 copies.
Due to how much red is in the meta right now I don't think I would want it main board. But bringing in DT for just about any other match up is a nice option to have. So some marsh flats in the main to enable it along with the opals. I normally only play 2 opals but would consider increasing those to give better odds on hitting black.
Terramorphic expanse could be used too but I wouldn't likely run more than 1 as the tempo loss is too significant here.
I have played it with DT main board about 50 or so games. I think it works out ok. This deck gets bad hands sometimes because of the lower number of total mana sources.
Something I been playing around with is the wellsprings. I have a feeling it will clutter this deck up too much. But it is actually realistic to significantly thin a deck with the combination of fetch lands and wellsprings.
id suggest Hover Myr..not a big fan of the blue..but i guess ponder wouldnt hurt..with no overseers this deck needs the scry..
Not sure why it's more important to build a deck for three months for now than it is to build one for tomorrow. That said, why are you recommending a 1/2 flyer for 2 over a 2/1 flyer for 2?
(In any case, I think Blade Splicer would be better than either. Without Overseer and Ornithopter, I think we'll be looking to increase our curve and play slightly more midrange.)
Not sure why it's more important to build a deck for three months for now than it is to build one for tomorrow. That said, why are you recommending a 1/2 flyer for 2 over a 2/1 flyer for 2?
(In any case, I think Blade Splicer would be better than either. Without Overseer and Ornithopter, I think we'll be looking to increase our curve and play slightly more midrange.)
thats simple..i dont run blue..so ur saying a 2/1 flyer for 2 mana and 2 life is better than a 1/2 flyer with vigilance for 2..its a simple choice..im paying enough life with vault and porcelain..and vigilance is what ends games..
I don't know guys. I don't like the blue splash. From my point of view, this is the ultimate aggro deck in the format. I rather play 4 threats in place of Preordains. I rather play direct answers in my side instead of Mana Leaks.
What's the point behind making this deck slower when its main strenght is speed?
It may seem skeptical but it makes the deck more consistent and resilient to sweeps. Not to mention Spellskite can be used with more efficiency.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks to Hakai Studios for the awesome sig! Currently running in Legacy: BWRUGDredgeGURWB
I don't know guys. I don't like the blue splash. From my point of view, this is the ultimate aggro deck in the format. I rather play 4 threats in place of Preordains. I rather play direct answers in my side instead of Mana Leaks.
What's the point behind making this deck slower when its main strenght is speed?
The blue splash makes the deck better at reacting to the opponents strategy with cards like Preordain you go for something you need or might need if something goes wrong. Also, your sideboard gains access to blue giving you wider options to side from.
Here's my question for the people who've tested the blue splash, why 3 Preordain instead of 4? And why no consideration for any counters mainboard ie Leak or Unified Will.
Honestly, for this type of deck, both of your suggested counters are too much. Spell Pierce has been working WONDERS for me from the side! We don't need to worry much about their creatures since we will swarm them before their's really matter, but we do need to worry about sweepers like DoJ or Black Sun's Zenith. Spell Pierce is perfect for doing that.
As for Preordains, I run 4 and I wouldn't go back to 3...its more consistent digging when I need something specific.
The blue splash makes the deck better at reacting to the opponents strategy with cards like Preordain you go for something you need or might need if something goes wrong. Also, your sideboard gains access to blue giving you wider options to side from.
Here's my question for the people who've tested the blue splash, why 3 Preordain instead of 4? And why no consideration for any counters mainboard ie Leak or Unified Will.
I played the blue splash at the Denver ptq yesterday, but with ponder to dig deeper. They were amazing and made the number of keepable hands I had much higher. Mana leak out of the board won me several games as well. The splash is well worth it.
Honestly, for this type of deck, both of your suggested counters are too much. Spell Pierce has been working WONDERS for me from the side! We don't need to worry much about their creatures since we will swarm them before their's really matter, but we do need to worry about sweepers like DoJ or Black Sun's Zenith. Spell Pierce is perfect for doing that.
As for Preordains, I run 4 and I wouldn't go back to 3...its more consistent digging when I need something specific.
I agree with this. This deck doesn't care about the opponents creatures, that's why it run's 4 dispatch. What it does care about though are sweepers and (possibly even more important) timely reinforcement. If I were to play the UW version which I probably wouldn't as the mono white/ GW versions seem better) I would definitely play Spell pierce SB over unified will or mana leak. I mean honestly, at what point are you going to hold up two mana? Only when you have no cards in hand. If you play almost any threat then you cannot hold up mana leak mana. The one mana difference is huge.
On a side note, what do you guys think of adding quest for the holy relic and 1 argentum armor to the deck as a plan B? Would that be better or worse then running that GW version from the SCG open?
I agree with this. This deck doesn't care about the opponents creatures, that's why it run's 4 dispatch. What it does care about though are sweepers and (possibly even more important) timely reinforcement. If I were to play the UW version which I probably wouldn't as the mono white/ GW versions seem better) I would definitely play Spell pierce SB over unified will or mana leak. I mean honestly, at what point are you going to hold up two mana? Only when you have no cards in hand. If you play almost any threat then you cannot hold up mana leak mana. The one mana difference is huge.
On a side note, what do you guys think of adding quest for the holy relic and 1 argentum armor to the deck as a plan B? Would that be better or worse then running that GW version from the SCG open?
It's awful and I hate it.
But post the list you're thinking of putting it in. It can possibly work but you really need the 2nd armor.
The blue splash makes the deck better at reacting to the opponents strategy with cards like Preordain you go for something you need or might need if something goes wrong. Also, your sideboard gains access to blue giving you wider options to side from.
Here's my question for the people who've tested the blue splash, why 3 Preordain instead of 4? And why no consideration for any counters mainboard ie Leak or Unified Will.
4 is too many. 3 feels right. I have preordained away so many lands away its not funny. draw that clutch dispatch or draw that tempered steel. So good. Plus countering a creeping corrosion post board seems PRETTY good. mono white just rolls over after creeping corrosion. The blue splash is awesome. although im still iffy between mana leak and spell pierce.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern:
Affinity
EDH:
Rhys (Tokens)
Karrthus (Dragons)
Bruna (Auras OP)
What are peoples thoughts on silence against certain matchups?
premtiveley stops any kill, creatures or sweepers.
sure it only buys you a turn but sometimes a turn is all you need
its janky but thoughts?
It always seems better in theory than practice. the only play this card sees in at the start of a turn in legacy so either A) they counter the silence and most likely dont have another counter available or they let it go and they risk letting a combo go off. I wouldnt imagine there would be one turn where you would need them silent so you could win. just have the counter to stop a crucial spell.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern:
Affinity
EDH:
Rhys (Tokens)
Karrthus (Dragons)
Bruna (Auras OP)
It always seems better in theory than practice. the only play this card sees in at the start of a turn in legacy so either A) they counter the silence and most likely dont have another counter available or they let it go and they risk letting a combo go off. I wouldnt imagine there would be one turn where you would need them silent so you could win. just have the counter to stop a crucial spell.
Yea thats fine for UW but what about in mono white builds? playing it as they untap on:
turn 3 stops 0-ring/reinforcements/blade splicer (not as much of a big deal)
turn 4 stops doj
turn 5 gideon
Sure they can counter it but thats fine. the whole idea was to stop them playing their optimal spells.
Unsure about palying it against red sweeper decks. seems refracktion trap may be better.
put piston sledge there to combine with etched champion- turns out piston sledge's ability to attach to a creature when it enters the battlefield really is awesome~
also, added ichor wellspring there to fuel the metalcraft of etched champion and possibly dispense justice-- and a thingy to sac on if piston sledge is around
what do u guys think??
should i add accordier paladin?
or should i splash red for slash panther and some of its removals?
or should i keep this as an all artifact based deck+ elesh norn?
edit: also planning on adding gideon jura here thinking that he may be able to stop the enemies from taking away the contested warzone
Ponder or Preordain? I'm thinking about moving to Ponder, I want to dig deeper for my TS, or Steel Overseer. Additionally, if I need an answer, say to Splinter Twin, then that digs deeper as well. Sometimes I see our deck as a combo deck and Ponder seems better. Opinions?
Next,
Spell Pierce, or Mana Leak. I feel Spell Pierce is better as you really only counter those pesky sorceries with this spell. Mana Leak costs 1 more, which requires having two open. I haven't played with Mana Leak, so what are your thoughts?
BTW love Dismember in this deck. Whoever printed that card was high or something.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I've always been a fan of reality by popular vote" - Stephen Colbert (in response to Don McLeroy)
Yeah, those atrocious facts that misrepresent how awesome this deck is.
Uh...
Anyways, I just built this deck, and my meta is full of slow control decks. I may see where this deck could have issues against RDW, but with a proper board that issue can be solved. I used Goblins last night to a 4-1 record, splitting top 8. This deck i feel can have even faster starts, maybe less of a long-game than my gobs, but the fliers i pack can outrace the nastiest creatures.
Here's is my first list:
4 Memnite
4 Signal Pest
4 Vault Skirge
4 Porcelain Legionnaire
4 Spined Thopter
3 Spellskite
Artifacts
3 Glint Hawk Idol
3 Mox Opal
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Dispatch
Sorcery
4 Ponder
Enchantments
4 Tempered Steel
Land
3 Seachrome Coast
3 Glacial Fortress
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Tectonic Edge
3 Marsh Flats
3 Plains
3 Kor Firewalker
1 sword of war and peace
3 Spell Pierce
2 Dismember
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Etched Champion
Not running steel overseer cause Im looking for post-rotation builds.
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
id suggest Hover Myr..not a big fan of the blue..but i guess ponder wouldnt hurt..with no overseers this deck needs the scry..
Edit* Whats everyones thoughts on going WR after rotation and using Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer in place of Steel Overseer?
This. I have only just recently given this deck a second thought, and that's thanks to the U splash. The mono-W is a mindless crap-shoot of a deck, and YES it did win in Japan. At least one idiot wins the lottery each time, but that doesn't mean that I'm gonna start wasting my time on that garbage. I prefer to rely on decks that reward skill, and adding the U splash (as well as running Spellbombs) not only allows you to survive the "later" games, but it allows you to play the deck much differently, and I have yet to lose a round since playing with it. That being said, I plan on giving the W/g list a Beastmaster list a try as I think it could be ridiculous and resilient, AND it appears to laugh in the face of any other version of the mirror.
To those discussing the "issue" of Ratchet Bomb...it isn't one. Period. If they're bringing that in against you, that's fine. You can diversify your threats and watch them as they frantically try to add the counters, but to no avail. And please, PLEASE, don't waste SB slots for it (i.e. Hex Parasite). Parasite may appear (to some of you) to be a good call against Planeswalkers, but I ask you, which is the PW you least want to see? I'll answer that for you; he's actually the only PW that you should care about AT ALL; Gideon. Now, I'll ask you another question, how often do you see yourself removing Gideon with a Parasite? That's a rhetorical question kids. Stick with O-rings, or even Mana Leak if you're in W/u
And I do like Leak other than Unified Will atm, as the new "Caw Blade" runs things that I would like to counter, but may, at times, have more creatures than we do.
For reference, I am currently running Shiels' MD with this SB:
2x Kor Firewalker (may become Shrines, but I like the mix, atm)
3x Mana Leak
2x Celestial Purge
2x Oblivion ring
2x Timely Reinforcements
2x Contested War Zone
Anyway, I am definitely gonna be testing with TS for a while, and I think that it's gonna continue to be a force to be reckoned with in the new Standard meta (at least for a couple months :-/).
Edit: Preordain >>>>>>> Ponder
"I'll go against a tank with a shank for my dreams and that's my f@#$%n' word!" -Dead Prez
Mono white version? Honestly, you just need to play smart and use shrines.G1 you should have destroyed them. You need to drop stuff, swing in and hold some back. Just play enough to get some damage in. Refraction trap is only good in RDW because you're able to kill their creatures. Spellskite survives pyroclasm. Strangely enough you will have to play slower. Also pray that you get alot of idols. unless they have bolts they literally cannot deal with them. Thats about it. I play blue so I side in the leaks against sweepers and titan.
Against elves, its literally a race. Spot remove stuff like ezuri and just pray.
Modern:
Affinity
EDH:
Rhys (Tokens)
Karrthus (Dragons)
Bruna (Auras OP)
Well there is Marsh Flats 1 basic swamp if you need it or plains like normal otherwise. When I have run the Tutelage I usually only have 2-3 copies.
Due to how much red is in the meta right now I don't think I would want it main board. But bringing in DT for just about any other match up is a nice option to have. So some marsh flats in the main to enable it along with the opals. I normally only play 2 opals but would consider increasing those to give better odds on hitting black.
Terramorphic expanse could be used too but I wouldn't likely run more than 1 as the tempo loss is too significant here.
I have played it with DT main board about 50 or so games. I think it works out ok. This deck gets bad hands sometimes because of the lower number of total mana sources.
Something I been playing around with is the wellsprings. I have a feeling it will clutter this deck up too much. But it is actually realistic to significantly thin a deck with the combination of fetch lands and wellsprings.
Not sure why it's more important to build a deck for three months for now than it is to build one for tomorrow. That said, why are you recommending a 1/2 flyer for 2 over a 2/1 flyer for 2?
(In any case, I think Blade Splicer would be better than either. Without Overseer and Ornithopter, I think we'll be looking to increase our curve and play slightly more midrange.)
thats simple..i dont run blue..so ur saying a 2/1 flyer for 2 mana and 2 life is better than a 1/2 flyer with vigilance for 2..its a simple choice..im paying enough life with vault and porcelain..and vigilance is what ends games..
Thanks to Hakai Studios for the awesome sig!
Currently running in Legacy:
BWRUGDredgeGURWB
It may seem skeptical but it makes the deck more consistent and resilient to sweeps. Not to mention Spellskite can be used with more efficiency.
Thanks to Hakai Studios for the awesome sig!
Currently running in Legacy:
BWRUGDredgeGURWB
The blue splash makes the deck better at reacting to the opponents strategy with cards like Preordain you go for something you need or might need if something goes wrong. Also, your sideboard gains access to blue giving you wider options to side from.
Here's my question for the people who've tested the blue splash, why 3 Preordain instead of 4? And why no consideration for any counters mainboard ie Leak or Unified Will.
As for Preordains, I run 4 and I wouldn't go back to 3...its more consistent digging when I need something specific.
GWG/W HumansWG
RRChandra's Noble BerserkerRR
WWTempered SteelWW
UBGWGrand Architect PodWGBU
EDH
GUBThe MimeoplasmBUG
Trade Thread: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6968464#post6968464
I agree with this. This deck doesn't care about the opponents creatures, that's why it run's 4 dispatch. What it does care about though are sweepers and (possibly even more important) timely reinforcement. If I were to play the UW version which I probably wouldn't as the mono white/ GW versions seem better) I would definitely play Spell pierce SB over unified will or mana leak. I mean honestly, at what point are you going to hold up two mana? Only when you have no cards in hand. If you play almost any threat then you cannot hold up mana leak mana. The one mana difference is huge.
On a side note, what do you guys think of adding quest for the holy relic and 1 argentum armor to the deck as a plan B? Would that be better or worse then running that GW version from the SCG open?
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=9733836#post9733836
It's awful and I hate it.
But post the list you're thinking of putting it in. It can possibly work but you really need the 2nd armor.
4 is too many. 3 feels right. I have preordained away so many lands away its not funny. draw that clutch dispatch or draw that tempered steel. So good. Plus countering a creeping corrosion post board seems PRETTY good. mono white just rolls over after creeping corrosion. The blue splash is awesome. although im still iffy between mana leak and spell pierce.
Modern:
Affinity
EDH:
Rhys (Tokens)
Karrthus (Dragons)
Bruna (Auras OP)
We were talking about post rotation..
That doesn't change anything because there are better options in the newer set.
Thanks to Hakai Studios for the awesome sig!
Currently running in Legacy:
BWRUGDredgeGURWB
premtiveley stops any kill, creatures or sweepers.
sure it only buys you a turn but sometimes a turn is all you need
its janky but thoughts?
It always seems better in theory than practice. the only play this card sees in at the start of a turn in legacy so either A) they counter the silence and most likely dont have another counter available or they let it go and they risk letting a combo go off. I wouldnt imagine there would be one turn where you would need them silent so you could win. just have the counter to stop a crucial spell.
Modern:
Affinity
EDH:
Rhys (Tokens)
Karrthus (Dragons)
Bruna (Auras OP)
Yea thats fine for UW but what about in mono white builds? playing it as they untap on:
turn 3 stops 0-ring/reinforcements/blade splicer (not as much of a big deal)
turn 4 stops doj
turn 5 gideon
Sure they can counter it but thats fine. the whole idea was to stop them playing their optimal spells.
Unsure about palying it against red sweeper decks. seems refracktion trap may be better.
anyways
prolly a set of dispense justice as one of the sideboard cards...
put piston sledge there to combine with etched champion- turns out piston sledge's ability to attach to a creature when it enters the battlefield really is awesome~
also, added ichor wellspring there to fuel the metalcraft of etched champion and possibly dispense justice-- and a thingy to sac on if piston sledge is around
what do u guys think??
should i add accordier paladin?
or should i splash red for slash panther and some of its removals?
or should i keep this as an all artifact based deck+ elesh norn?
edit: also planning on adding gideon jura here thinking that he may be able to stop the enemies from taking away the contested warzone
Ponder or Preordain? I'm thinking about moving to Ponder, I want to dig deeper for my TS, or Steel Overseer. Additionally, if I need an answer, say to Splinter Twin, then that digs deeper as well. Sometimes I see our deck as a combo deck and Ponder seems better. Opinions?
Next,
Spell Pierce, or Mana Leak. I feel Spell Pierce is better as you really only counter those pesky sorceries with this spell. Mana Leak costs 1 more, which requires having two open. I haven't played with Mana Leak, so what are your thoughts?
BTW love Dismember in this deck. Whoever printed that card was high or something.
"I've always been a fan of reality by popular vote" - Stephen Colbert (in response to Don McLeroy)
GPolukranos, Kill ALL the Things!G