I really have to say that I'm intrigued by the deck. It seem uber fun and surprising. I've played against the Iona/Emmy/Stormy mass poly and managed to win (hello fliers and tumble magnets).
Has anyone run into anyone questioning the stack of the ETB abilities of both. I know I'm going to have explain this over and over again if I play this I hate having to explain how it works to people, even if it should be rather obvious...
I'm going to sleeve this up and test. It looks so much more fun than the Iona/Em/Storm version:
I really have to say that I'm intrigued by the deck. It seem uber fun and surprising. I've played against the Iona/Emmy/Stormy mass poly and managed to win (hello fliers and tumble magnets).
Has anyone run into anyone questioning the stack of the ETB abilities of both. I know I'm going to have explain this over and over again if I play this I hate having to explain how it works to people, even if it should be rather obvious...
I'm going to sleeve this up and test. It looks so much more fun than the Iona/Em/Storm version:
Heh, ya, explaining it can be a pain, but it's important to state that because you control all of the triggers that occur simultaneously, you control the order they're put on the stack.
But ya, instead of having a 3 step win with the big three, you win in one step. More simply put:
Step 1) Play Mass Polymorph with 4 critters and win.
On another note, I wonder if Autumn's veil should just be played mainboard over spell pierce? DoJ is becoming less and less frequent in U/W main boards, and it gives you an automatic hard counter for G when you're about to go off.
Green doesn't really give us any problems we can't win through, White outside of DoJ has ousts/journeys, but those are horribly wasted if they're used on tokens and ineffective post polymorph, and red has pyroclasm/slagstorm/arc trail, but many of those aren't maindecked either.
I wonder if Veil might just be more effective G1 than Spell pierce?
I use as win-cons a bunch of stuff. Emrakul, Iona, Ulamog, Kozilek, Novablast Wurm, It that Betrays, Psthrazer of Ulamog, etc...but I use it all because of Summoning Trap, and that hates to whiff.
I LOVE GARRUK.
The instant win is cute but unreliable. Getting 5 tokens out at the same time against competent opponents isn't going to happen because you should have enough pressure on you to require blocking or you are dead.
This isn't speaking from baseless speculation. I've been playing the deck and this is a reoccurring issue. I would suggest switching to eldrazi + a couple primeval titans and adding eye of ugin + temples. This gives you more reliable-castable creatures and it gives you inevitability with your awakening zones. Mass poly morphing into eldrazi means you win the turn after.
The instant win is cute but unreliable. Getting 5 tokens out at the same time against competent opponents isn't going to happen because you should have enough pressure on you to require blocking or you are dead.
This isn't speaking from baseless speculation. I've been playing the deck and this is a reoccurring issue. I would suggest switching to eldrazi + a couple primeval titans and adding eye of ugin + temples. This gives you more reliable-castable creatures and it gives you inevitability with your awakening zones. Mass poly morphing into eldrazi means you win the turn after.
Actually, I'm experiencing the exact opposite. It could be that I have a couple of different cards in my build so token production after a board wipe is pretty decent. I can get up to 4 or 5 token in 2 turns.
Again, and I'm gonna keep saying it as many times as I have to, the point of this deck is to win right away, not to win eventually, not to win next turn, not to win three turns from now with a lockdown.
I mean, I really appreciate the comments and the feedback, but seriously, the point of this deck is the Massacre Wurm + Terrastodon combo.
Please stop posting decklists that involve other packages, because those are just polymoprh decks, and not Lolaphant decks.
Now, about Autumn's Veil going into the mainboard...
I agree, but that's really dependant on your meta. I don't even have my manaleaks mainboarded right now because honestly, I don't need them in my meta. The decks I run into either want to win turn 3 or turn 15, and I can race against speed decks and beat the crap out of other decks easy without needing manaleak.
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Former ">IzzetAcolyte of Chronomancy. Proud Creator of MassacreMorph, a.k.a., LOLAPHANT
Again, and I'm gonna keep saying it as many times as I have to, the point of this deck is to win right away, not to win eventually, not to win next turn, not to win three turns from now with a lockdown.
I mean, I really appreciate the comments and the feedback, but seriously, the point of this deck is the Massacre Wurm + Terrastodon combo.
Please stop posting decklists that involve other packages, because those are just polymoprh decks, and not Lolaphant decks.
Now, about Autumn's Veil going into the mainboard...
I agree, but that's really dependant on your meta. I don't even have my manaleaks mainboarded right now because honestly, I don't need them in my meta. The decks I run into either want to win turn 3 or turn 15, and I can race against speed decks and beat the crap out of other decks easy without needing manaleak.
That's fine dude, if you are married to the instant win then run with it. I just assumed the deck was trying to be a real deck instead of just casual.
That's fine dude, if you are married to the instant win then run with it. I just assumed the deck was trying to be a real deck instead of just casual.
Honestly, what is casual about this compared to the other deck? They have different ways of winning. They go about it the same way...mass morph into threats. Whether those threats come down and instantly win or win a turn later, that doesn't make them really any different.
And, this IS a thread based on the Terastodon/Wurm combo, the other Mass Polymorph thread is around here somewhere.
I really don't understand how this is more casual than Iona/Emrakul/Stormtide...when in the end, they achieve the same thing, except the end results are a turn or two quicker with this version.
Man... I really want to make this deck and come back to an FNM and play it! Soo much fun. I already got a playset of the Misty Rainforest, and alot of the other cards I have, and it wouldn't be bad budget wise to get the remaining cards. For the sideboard, would it be better to get the "classical" package of Iona, Leviathan, and Emrakul? or would it be fun to use a playset of Putrefax? I personally wanna try out that sideboard package just to see how many games that could steal.
Yeah I'm already ordering singles now lol
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The original deck has pretty drastic flaws that keep it from being competitive is what I am trying to say. By making active strides to fix these problems by altering cards RE: The main combo, you can have a deck that helps minimize the flaws while continuing to hold its value.
The deck actually has a good engine here but it can be improved. If the deck is to be nothing more than a casual fnm deck then that's fine as it is. On the other hand, if this deck is to become competitive it needs to drop the cute and focus on what it does best. Gotta call a spade a spade.
If you want I can help you pinpoint the glaring weaknesses. I attempted to solve several of them in my version but it isn't elephanty enough for you
The original deck has pretty drastic flaws that keep it from being competitive is what I am trying to say. By making active strides to fix these problems by altering cards RE: The main combo, you can have a deck that helps minimize the flaws while continuing to hold its value.
The deck actually has a good engine here but it can be improved. If the deck is to be nothing more than a casual fnm deck then that's fine as it is. On the other hand, if this deck is to become competitive it needs to drop the cute and focus on what it does best. Gotta call a spade a spade.
If you want I can help you pinpoint the glaring weaknesses. I attempted to solve several of them in my version but it isn't elephanty enough for you
Your deck isn't this deck, though.
And like I said, we don't want to win the turn after. We want to win WHEN we cast Mass Polymorph.
And like I said, we don't want to win the turn after. We want to win WHEN we cast Mass Polymorph.
Your deck is just some polymorph deck.
I completely agree. I was just pointing out that when you cast mass polymorph you need to be in a very specific situation or it doesn't necessarily win you the game. Getting to that situation without being dead on board is another issue.
If you don't draw mass polymorph, you lose.
If you draw 1-multiples of your creatures, you lose.
If your opponent counters mass polymorph, you probably lose unless you can resolve another.
If your opponent kills your tokens, you lose.
If your opponent duresses your mass polymorph, you will probably lose unless you can find AND resolve another.
If you resolve polymorph with 3 or less tokens in play, there is still a good opportunity to lose.
If your opponent casts memorocide, you lose.
If your opponent is aggressive, you will probably lose.
One dimensional decks that don't auto-win relatively easily are just not competitive. Keep rocking the lolaphants though, fnm foils are nice
I completely agree. I was just pointing out that when you cast mass polymorph you need to be in a very specific situation or it doesn't necessarily win you the game. Getting to that situation without being dead on board is another issue.
If you don't draw mass polymorph, you lose.
If you draw 1-multiples of your creatures, you lose.
If your opponent counters mass polymorph, you probably lose unless you can resolve another.
If your opponent kills your tokens, you lose.
If your opponent duresses your mass polymorph, you will probably lose unless you can find AND resolve another.
If you resolve polymorph with 3 or less tokens in play, there is still a good opportunity to lose.
If your opponent casts memorocide, you lose.
If your opponent is aggressive, you will probably lose.
One dimensional decks that don't auto-win relatively easily are just not competitive. Keep rocking the lolaphants though, fnm foils are nice
FNM foils are nice. It's funny that you think that ANY polymorph deck has a chance at something of a grander scale. You pretty much just pointed out all the weaknesses of every Polymorph based deck.
What deck can't use some work? Seriously, it's an ever changing game. Perhaps a sideboard that brings in something to make it a token aggro, like Beastmaster Ascension or something of the like.
But what is the use of coming into a thread just to put it down and continually put it down. If you don't like the deck, fine...that's cool. You don't have to. Read the bottom of my sig...you just proved it's true again.
FNM foils are nice. It's funny that you think that ANY polymorph deck has a chance at something of a grander scale. You pretty much just pointed out all the weaknesses of every Polymorph based deck.
This.
If you don't like the deck idea, that's fine, but this thread is to promote dropping Wurmsaphant bombs on peoples faces.
I don't think any of us expect to get far with this deck, but so far at least three of us have won FNM foils, myself included, so please don't just show up, tell us that we fail without Jace 2, then drop an Eldrazi deck list on us and expect us to convert to your way of thinking.
We're having fun, dude, don't kill our buzz
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Former ">IzzetAcolyte of Chronomancy. Proud Creator of MassacreMorph, a.k.a., LOLAPHANT
I came to this thread just to say that I agree with the general consensus that a casual deck is not bad, its just casual. I also agree that FNM foils are nice, and if some people play magic to have fun and dont want to make a deck worthy of Worlds top8 lists, is not a reason to discourage and/or rant about the flaws of the deck.
I like lolaphants and probably try the deck in about a month or so while I get the cards XD.
Thanks for the one card win, btw. Seems enough to rip some lolz from my opponents =)
would you be opposed to using blightsteel colossus + Master's Call + shape anew alongside Putrefax in the sideboard and keep in Mass Polly? that way you can either win via shape anew / collosi, or massive haste beats / collosi when you mass polly? just to twist the flavor around for those guys playing memerocide and duress?
(yea, i know your sideboard actually does something for meta hate, i just think it'd be fun at the kitchen table :P)
Dude the combo is halarious and I love it. Casual is sick for what it is. I was just trying to take a competitive edge to the deck is all
@darkspell
Polymorph was a huge combo deck last season before the 4cc version rotated. I do think that mass polymorph has potential because I've been taking the deck online and mashing face. Not many decks can answer a 6 mana spell that spews out primeval titans and eldrazi with one feeding the other.
The main point I was getting at was you guys are playing with an engine that could possibly break out if built correctly. Mashing casual face is just fine at a semi-competitive level and it's possible some of the weaknesses could be fixed with tuning. I just don't have a build off the top of my head that can either slow aggression or get 5 tokens out at the same time where instead changing the package helps deal with those issues at least in part. Goodluck insta-comboing people out though.
And yes, Jace2 does help several of your problems so I would seriously consider giving him a shot (even in proxy). He can slow agression, help find polymorphs, hide them from duress, with a fetchland he can shuffle peices in, gives you something to do should polymorph be countered and adds another possible win condition (awakening zone is a good wall). At worst people will go nuts trying to kill him which buys you more turns because it's a pseudo fog. It's not just add jace2 to a deck for the sake of jace2.
EDIT: I also think I'll be running some Inkmoth Nexus (Nexuses? Nexii?) in the maindeck to help the SB plan and maybe to poke against control decks, to commit them into tapping some mana and possibly opening the way into the Polymorph. I'm not sure if this will negatively affect the manabase's colors though.
EDIT: I also think I'll be running some Inkmoth Nexus (Nexuses? Nexii?) in the maindeck to help the SB plan and maybe to poke against control decks, to commit them into tapping some mana and possibly opening the way into the Polymorph. I'm not sure if this will negatively affect the manabase's colors though.
I like the idea of sideboarding in a whole other win condition. It keeps with the theme of 'OHGODWTFJUSTHAPPENEDTOME' that I'm trying to keep around, haha.
Also, the problem I have with Inkmoth is that while he provides a chump blocker and potential morph target, he costs mana. We want to be able to go off ASAP, and Inkmoth-ing makes our winning turn require 7 mana instead of 6.
Then again, if you can't go off immediately, you'll know that you'll have at least one token who probaly won't get taken down from a wipe or board hate.
It's a toss up I'll have to playtest with and without him.
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Ohhhh man... THIS IS FREAKIN SWEET. Love this combo, and I'm gonna order some of the cards. I really like the idea of a tranformative sideboard. Ohhh, and I think Autums Viel would be good to provide protetection from memoricide and counter, to be able to resolve the polymorph. This deck is awesome and I'll definitely post my FNM results. Keep up the awesome work!!!!
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Currently Playing B Death Aggro B UR Phoenix Control UR UGX Precursor Strike UGX
taking the deck in a shape anew transformational will protect against memoricde as people will go for mass poly and get nothing, good plan to try for competitive
After some playtesting, the Shape Anew sideboard is working pretty well. I obviously only do it when I see I need it, but it's been helping against matches that would obviously end poorly. However, I think I'm gonna up the count of Blightsteel's to two.
I had one get exiled by an esper control deck, and I was not pleased.
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Has anyone run into anyone questioning the stack of the ETB abilities of both. I know I'm going to have explain this over and over again if I play this I hate having to explain how it works to people, even if it should be rather obvious...
I'm going to sleeve this up and test. It looks so much more fun than the Iona/Em/Storm version:
2x Massacre Wurm
2x Terastodon
OTHER SPELLS (34)
4x Growth Spasm
4x Preordain
4x Awakening Zone
4x Mass Polymorph
4x See Beyond
4x Flayer Husk
1x Gelatinous Genesis
1x Beastial Menace
2x Chimeric Mass
2x Trigon of Infestation
4x Spell Pierce
4x Khalni Garden
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Halimar Depths
7x Forest
7x Island
4x Autumn's Veil
3x Flashfreeze
4x Fog
4x Naturalize
But this would defeat the single most amazing thing about this deck: the name - lolaphant.
Heh, ya, explaining it can be a pain, but it's important to state that because you control all of the triggers that occur simultaneously, you control the order they're put on the stack.
But ya, instead of having a 3 step win with the big three, you win in one step. More simply put:
Step 1) Play Mass Polymorph with 4 critters and win.
On another note, I wonder if Autumn's veil should just be played mainboard over spell pierce? DoJ is becoming less and less frequent in U/W main boards, and it gives you an automatic hard counter for G when you're about to go off.
Green doesn't really give us any problems we can't win through, White outside of DoJ has ousts/journeys, but those are horribly wasted if they're used on tokens and ineffective post polymorph, and red has pyroclasm/slagstorm/arc trail, but many of those aren't maindecked either.
I wonder if Veil might just be more effective G1 than Spell pierce?
I LOVE GARRUK.
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This isn't speaking from baseless speculation. I've been playing the deck and this is a reoccurring issue. I would suggest switching to eldrazi + a couple primeval titans and adding eye of ugin + temples. This gives you more reliable-castable creatures and it gives you inevitability with your awakening zones. Mass poly morphing into eldrazi means you win the turn after.
I would run something similar to this:
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Khalni Garden
4 Misty Rainforest
5 Island
4 Eldrazi Temple
5 Forest
2 Verdant Catacombs
Creatures
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
3 Primeval Titan
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 See Beyond
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Awakening Zone
4 Explore
4 Preordain
4 Growth Spasm
4 Mass Polymorph
3 Obstinate Baloth
3 Pelakka Wurm
1 Stormtide Leviathan
4 Leyline of Vitality
4 Nature's Claim
The sideboard is up for debate
Thanks spiderboy4 from High~Light Studios
Member of Team Revolution
Actually, I'm experiencing the exact opposite. It could be that I have a couple of different cards in my build so token production after a board wipe is pretty decent. I can get up to 4 or 5 token in 2 turns.
I mean, I really appreciate the comments and the feedback, but seriously, the point of this deck is the Massacre Wurm + Terrastodon combo.
Please stop posting decklists that involve other packages, because those are just polymoprh decks, and not Lolaphant decks.
Now, about Autumn's Veil going into the mainboard...
I agree, but that's really dependant on your meta. I don't even have my manaleaks mainboarded right now because honestly, I don't need them in my meta. The decks I run into either want to win turn 3 or turn 15, and I can race against speed decks and beat the crap out of other decks easy without needing manaleak.
Former ">Izzet Acolyte of Chronomancy.
Proud Creator of MassacreMorph, a.k.a., LOLAPHANT
That's fine dude, if you are married to the instant win then run with it. I just assumed the deck was trying to be a real deck instead of just casual.
Thanks spiderboy4 from High~Light Studios
Member of Team Revolution
Honestly, what is casual about this compared to the other deck? They have different ways of winning. They go about it the same way...mass morph into threats. Whether those threats come down and instantly win or win a turn later, that doesn't make them really any different.
And, this IS a thread based on the Terastodon/Wurm combo, the other Mass Polymorph thread is around here somewhere.
I really don't understand how this is more casual than Iona/Emrakul/Stormtide...when in the end, they achieve the same thing, except the end results are a turn or two quicker with this version.
Yeah I'm already ordering singles now lol
A silver angel falls and a golden seraph rises.
Standard
Esper Solar Flare BUW 8-2-0
Zombies UB - Reconstructing
The deck actually has a good engine here but it can be improved. If the deck is to be nothing more than a casual fnm deck then that's fine as it is. On the other hand, if this deck is to become competitive it needs to drop the cute and focus on what it does best. Gotta call a spade a spade.
If you want I can help you pinpoint the glaring weaknesses. I attempted to solve several of them in my version but it isn't elephanty enough for you
Thanks spiderboy4 from High~Light Studios
Member of Team Revolution
Your deck isn't this deck, though.
And like I said, we don't want to win the turn after. We want to win WHEN we cast Mass Polymorph.
Your deck is just some polymorph deck.
Former ">Izzet Acolyte of Chronomancy.
Proud Creator of MassacreMorph, a.k.a., LOLAPHANT
I completely agree. I was just pointing out that when you cast mass polymorph you need to be in a very specific situation or it doesn't necessarily win you the game. Getting to that situation without being dead on board is another issue.
If you don't draw mass polymorph, you lose.
If you draw 1-multiples of your creatures, you lose.
If your opponent counters mass polymorph, you probably lose unless you can resolve another.
If your opponent kills your tokens, you lose.
If your opponent duresses your mass polymorph, you will probably lose unless you can find AND resolve another.
If you resolve polymorph with 3 or less tokens in play, there is still a good opportunity to lose.
If your opponent casts memorocide, you lose.
If your opponent is aggressive, you will probably lose.
One dimensional decks that don't auto-win relatively easily are just not competitive. Keep rocking the lolaphants though, fnm foils are nice
Thanks spiderboy4 from High~Light Studios
Member of Team Revolution
FNM foils are nice. It's funny that you think that ANY polymorph deck has a chance at something of a grander scale. You pretty much just pointed out all the weaknesses of every Polymorph based deck.
What deck can't use some work? Seriously, it's an ever changing game. Perhaps a sideboard that brings in something to make it a token aggro, like Beastmaster Ascension or something of the like.
But what is the use of coming into a thread just to put it down and continually put it down. If you don't like the deck, fine...that's cool. You don't have to. Read the bottom of my sig...you just proved it's true again.
This.
If you don't like the deck idea, that's fine, but this thread is to promote dropping Wurmsaphant bombs on peoples faces.
I don't think any of us expect to get far with this deck, but so far at least three of us have won FNM foils, myself included, so please don't just show up, tell us that we fail without Jace 2, then drop an Eldrazi deck list on us and expect us to convert to your way of thinking.
We're having fun, dude, don't kill our buzz
Former ">Izzet Acolyte of Chronomancy.
Proud Creator of MassacreMorph, a.k.a., LOLAPHANT
I like lolaphants and probably try the deck in about a month or so while I get the cards XD.
Thanks for the one card win, btw. Seems enough to rip some lolz from my opponents =)
URPyromancer ascension RU
lolaphants - the only one card win .deck left in standard UGB
(yea, i know your sideboard actually does something for meta hate, i just think it'd be fun at the kitchen table :P)
@darkspell
Polymorph was a huge combo deck last season before the 4cc version rotated. I do think that mass polymorph has potential because I've been taking the deck online and mashing face. Not many decks can answer a 6 mana spell that spews out primeval titans and eldrazi with one feeding the other.
The main point I was getting at was you guys are playing with an engine that could possibly break out if built correctly. Mashing casual face is just fine at a semi-competitive level and it's possible some of the weaknesses could be fixed with tuning. I just don't have a build off the top of my head that can either slow aggression or get 5 tokens out at the same time where instead changing the package helps deal with those issues at least in part. Goodluck insta-comboing people out though.
And yes, Jace2 does help several of your problems so I would seriously consider giving him a shot (even in proxy). He can slow agression, help find polymorphs, hide them from duress, with a fetchland he can shuffle peices in, gives you something to do should polymorph be countered and adds another possible win condition (awakening zone is a good wall). At worst people will go nuts trying to kill him which buys you more turns because it's a pseudo fog. It's not just add jace2 to a deck for the sake of jace2.
Thanks spiderboy4 from High~Light Studios
Member of Team Revolution
I'm thinking of running a transformational sideboard for my version, into a Shape Anew -> Colossus thing. Something like this:
4 Shape Anew
4 Trinket Mage
4 Overgrown Battlement
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Darksteel Axe
1 Treasure Mage
EDIT: I also think I'll be running some Inkmoth Nexus (Nexuses? Nexii?) in the maindeck to help the SB plan and maybe to poke against control decks, to commit them into tapping some mana and possibly opening the way into the Polymorph. I'm not sure if this will negatively affect the manabase's colors though.
Yo dawg, I heard you like MTG so we put a game into your game so you can play MTG while you play MTG
I like the idea of sideboarding in a whole other win condition. It keeps with the theme of 'OHGODWTFJUSTHAPPENEDTOME' that I'm trying to keep around, haha.
Also, the problem I have with Inkmoth is that while he provides a chump blocker and potential morph target, he costs mana. We want to be able to go off ASAP, and Inkmoth-ing makes our winning turn require 7 mana instead of 6.
Then again, if you can't go off immediately, you'll know that you'll have at least one token who probaly won't get taken down from a wipe or board hate.
It's a toss up I'll have to playtest with and without him.
Former ">Izzet Acolyte of Chronomancy.
Proud Creator of MassacreMorph, a.k.a., LOLAPHANT
Thanks spiderboy4 from High~Light Studios
Member of Team Revolution
Signature Credits to TapThisToDestroyThat
Currently Playing
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UR Phoenix Control UR
UGX Precursor Strike UGX
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I had one get exiled by an esper control deck, and I was not pleased.
Former ">Izzet Acolyte of Chronomancy.
Proud Creator of MassacreMorph, a.k.a., LOLAPHANT