I've recently tried this, but the mana base was just far too inconsistent with 3 colors in a aggro build, where you'll be wanting all 3 by turn 3. I ended up just going with Red/Green, and it's been working out pretty well so far. Here's a link to the thread it's in: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=338319&page=2
Edit: Also, do you know actually what Zoo is? Because you left out some key creatures in your list like Lavamancer and Skinshifter, both great for a Zoo-type list. And the inclusion of things like Lotus Cobra is ridiculous(ly bad). And all of the double-mono-mana cards baffle me when you're going for a 3 color deck.
Pretty much quoting Kraum here. In short, the manabase is terribad. 3 color aggro is just too much for our current choice of lands to handle. Here's the list I tried, if you're interested.
clearly you will need fetch lands, duals, lotus cobra, and possibly Bop's to get the mana right... we also have rampant growth back and sylvan ranger for 2 drop color fixers
clearly you will need fetch lands, duals, lotus cobra, and possibly Bop's to get the mana right... we also have rampant growth back and sylvan ranger for 2 drop color fixers
All of this mana ramping and fixing makes the deck no longer Zoo, and just turns it into a bad aggro deck. If you're going to be ramping and fixing, you may as well play creatures that will use up all the mana, and not 1-2 drops, which you'll run out of in 2 turns if you drop them all with the mana you have open.
clearly you will need fetch lands, duals, lotus cobra, and possibly Bop's to get the mana right... we also have rampant growth back and sylvan ranger for 2 drop color fixers
Perhaps with that foundation, we could opt for a Midrange build of sorts? I doubt very seriously we could get the aggro route consistent enough to compete at a semi-competitive level.
i've been playing with alot of 3 color mana bases lately. they actually do work but only for decks with a certain tempo to them. you can't really do it unless you just accept that you've got almost not action during turns 1 and 2. you'll play accelerators/fixers and cantrips during these turns to get your mana straight and ready to cast real spells beginning on turn 3. but it works. its pretty good.
however...its not Zoo. you can't really play a Zoo deck without having awesome 1 drop attackers. thats the whole point of the deck. if you wanted to do this in Standard you'd just end up right back at Boros aggro and realize that green just screwed up your mana base for no appreciable gain in beatdown speed.
Pretty much quoting Kraum here. In short, the manabase is terribad. 3 color aggro is just too much for our current choice of lands to handle. Here's the list I tried, if you're interested.
That's a good list to start but at that point, with only 1 green card and a one that constantly needs green mana being pumped into it, it's better to just go boros and play geopede.
So, I like the creaturebase in the post above, and the spells are close... so let's start from there and remind people how to build a manabase, since it seems like you forgot. Also... Added Geopede since I'm pretty sure that was an oversight...
This deck is really off balance for the mana demands in favor of red... so, you need to make sure you're shifting your manabase so that it's around 2/3 being potentially red... This was talked about elsewhere too... you really only bring in 1 thing from green, so it might as well just go boros? but then you're not bringing much from white either... so why not mono red?
Then you realize that you forgot some critical things to give the deck some amount of reach and a little better win conditions and what you really want is this:
ok... that's 13 green sources, 13 red, and 10 white... That makes sense since I've got more red in my early drops than anything, and need the fast red... but... I'm ging to need to hit that double green for garruk or Vengevine and I have Lead the Stampede in there too... That should give me the versatility that I'm looking for and the speed too.
I realize tri-color decks aren't as popular right now, but they were big for a long time and our options for usable lands has only gotten better. It's just been a little bit. I also bumped to 24 land because although you have a low enough curve for the most part, you really want to make sure you're hitting the landfalls for Geopede and Lynx and Fetching for Lavamancer.
So, I like the creaturebase in the post above, and the spells are close... so let's start from there and remind people how to build a manabase, since it seems like you forgot. Also... Added Geopede since I'm pretty sure that was an oversight...
This deck is really off balance for the mana demands in favor of red... so, you need to make sure you're shifting your manabase so that it's around 2/3 being potentially red... This was talked about elsewhere too... you really only bring in 1 thing from green, so it might as well just go boros? but then you're not bringing much from white either... so why not mono red?
Then you realize that you forgot some critical things to give the deck some amount of reach and a little better win conditions and what you really want is this:
ok... that's 13 green sources, 13 red, and 10 white... That makes sense since I've got more red in my early drops than anything, and need the fast red... but... I'm ging to need to hit that double green for garruk or Vengevine and I have Lead the Stampede in there too... That should give me the versatility that I'm looking for and the speed too.
I realize tri-color decks aren't as popular right now, but they were big for a long time and our options for usable lands has only gotten better. It's just been a little bit. I also bumped to 24 land because although you have a low enough curve for the most part, you really want to make sure you're hitting the landfalls for Geopede and Lynx and Fetching for Lavamancer.
You seem to be missing what we're actually saying. We aren't saying a 3 color deck is undoable in standard. I actually play a couple of 3 color decks that have been quite successful. We're saying that 3 colors is not optimal for an aggro deck. With your deck example, it's ok, since you made mroe of a midrange build than aggro (though still a bit iffy in my opinion because of the many double green costs). Even with the 2 color aggro I'm playing now, getting the right color combination in the early turns can be a pain (and I'm playing allied colors, with dual lands and crap). I tried a Naya aggro for a bit, but after how awful the mana consistency was, I cut it to the two colors that were the best for me, red and green.
Edit: Also, what I'm saying, is that with a midrange list such as what you threw together should no longer be deemed at "Zoo."
Obviously I just threw it together so I didn't really get to test, but the manabase and build should do pretty much what you want it to... really the 4-mana, double-green baddies are curve toppers for closing the deal or adding reach if you happen to get hit with a DoJ. The main thing I saw though was that with the list TheHorseCloth posted, it was immediately obvious why he had problems with his manabase. His color weighting was way off. In other 3 color decks it's not as big a deal because you're running a little more land and don't mind getting ETB tapped or finishing the color base a little later because you're looking to get the game to that point. for this one though it's basically essential that you start with the right color lineup and run fast through the fetch's and land drops while keeping your creatures dropping fast. Give it a try, I'm not going to try and claim that the list is perfect, but it should do what it's supposed to consistantly and run fast enough to close the game while not just folding to Pyroclasm or DoJ.
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so its Boros then, right? the odd man out there is Loam Lion which unfortunately cannot be supported because there's no easy way of getting a forest into play for it. We don't have Stomping Ground or Temple Garden to smooth that out. it basically has to be removed and replaced with some other creature. Maybe a Spikeshot Elder or even Elite Vanguard.
and there's no benefit at all to green. there aren't any green 1 or 2 mana creatures that ought to be run in this kind of deck. the closest thing to it is Skinshifter, but lets be honest, thats not an incredibly impressive card in straight aggro and hardly worth splashing for.
the only conclusion i can draw is that Boros IS Standard Zoo, period. the three color RGW decks are all midrange decks and not any kind of Zoo deck at all.
This deck is really off balance for the mana demands in favor of red... so, you need to make sure you're shifting your manabase so that it's around 2/3 being potentially red... This was talked about elsewhere too... you really only bring in 1 thing from green, so it might as well just go boros? but then you're not bringing much from white either... so why not mono red?.
Because steppe lynx is that good. Your second list is also no longer zoo, what with the vengies and the garruk.
so its Boros then, right? the odd man out there is Loam Lion which unfortunately cannot be supported because there's no easy way of getting a forest into play for it. We don't have Stomping Ground or Temple Garden to smooth that out. it basically has to be removed and replaced with some other creature. Maybe a Spikeshot Elder or even Elite Vanguard.
and there's no benefit at all to green. there aren't any green 1 or 2 mana creatures that ought to be run in this kind of deck. the closest thing to it is Skinshifter, but lets be honest, thats not an incredibly impressive card in straight aggro and hardly worth splashing for.
the only conclusion i can draw is that Boros IS Standard Zoo, period. the three color RGW decks are all midrange decks and not any kind of Zoo deck at all.
There is plenty of value in green skinshifter, scythe tiger believe it or not he is really good at feeding lavamancer and being a turn 1 wild nacatl with shroud (you lose a land but who cares nothing cost over 3 anyway). Outside of creatures there is the new draw of Hunter's something from m12 and if you go creatures there is lead the stampede. You also have access to birds of paradise, this lets you leave mana up t2 for a skinshifter activation on defense, hit a t2 sword and swing with it t3 (that is a turn faster than caw blade). I mean why not run swords? Zoo runs jitte and with bloodstorm berserker, skinshifter, and birds for evasion hell yeah. There are even great answer cards in green right now. Vines of Vastwood to stop twin. Beast Within to turn a mana heavy draw favorable when you run out of gas, respond to removal by making it a 3/3, deal with planeswalkers, or just shrink a titan. Also with the scars duals your manabase doesn't have to take a huge hit. Here is an example of Naya.
Accorder paladin
Ajani's pridemate
Goblin Guide
Nest invader
Beastbreaker of Bala ged
Loam Lion
Bramblesnap
Carapace forger
Elite vanguard
furnace scamp
glint hawk
Kor skyfisher
glinthawk idol
bushwacker
hada freeblade
Kazandu blademaster
signal pest
hex parasite
lotus cobra
phyrexian revoker
this is a small list of 2 cmc or less creatures in standard that could be pretty deadly when swarming someone.
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
Edit: Also, do you know actually what Zoo is? Because you left out some key creatures in your list like Lavamancer and Skinshifter, both great for a Zoo-type list. And the inclusion of things like Lotus Cobra is ridiculous(ly bad). And all of the double-mono-mana cards baffle me when you're going for a 3 color deck.
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Goblin Guide
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Skinshifter
4 Porcelain Legionnaire
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Incinerate
4 Staggershock
4 Dismember
2 Oblivion Ring
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Arid Mesa
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Plains
2 Mountain
2 Forest
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
All of this mana ramping and fixing makes the deck no longer Zoo, and just turns it into a bad aggro deck. If you're going to be ramping and fixing, you may as well play creatures that will use up all the mana, and not 1-2 drops, which you'll run out of in 2 turns if you drop them all with the mana you have open.
Perhaps with that foundation, we could opt for a Midrange build of sorts? I doubt very seriously we could get the aggro route consistent enough to compete at a semi-competitive level.
however...its not Zoo. you can't really play a Zoo deck without having awesome 1 drop attackers. thats the whole point of the deck. if you wanted to do this in Standard you'd just end up right back at Boros aggro and realize that green just screwed up your mana base for no appreciable gain in beatdown speed.
That's a good list to start but at that point, with only 1 green card and a one that constantly needs green mana being pumped into it, it's better to just go boros and play geopede.
My Sales Post!
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Goblin Guide
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Skinshifter
4 Porcelain Legionnaire
4 Plated Geopede
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Incinerate
2 Arc Trail
2 Dismember
3 Oblivion Ring
Lands [24]
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Arid Mesa
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Marsh Flat
3 Plains
5 Mountain
This deck is really off balance for the mana demands in favor of red... so, you need to make sure you're shifting your manabase so that it's around 2/3 being potentially red... This was talked about elsewhere too... you really only bring in 1 thing from green, so it might as well just go boros? but then you're not bringing much from white either... so why not mono red?
Then you realize that you forgot some critical things to give the deck some amount of reach and a little better win conditions and what you really want is this:
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Goblin Guide
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Skinshifter
4 Vengevine
4 Plated Geopede
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
Spells [9]
4 Lead the Stampede
3 Dismember
2 Oblivion Ring
Lands [24]
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Arid Mesa
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Forest
2 Plains
3 Mountain
ok... that's 13 green sources, 13 red, and 10 white... That makes sense since I've got more red in my early drops than anything, and need the fast red... but... I'm ging to need to hit that double green for garruk or Vengevine and I have Lead the Stampede in there too... That should give me the versatility that I'm looking for and the speed too.
I realize tri-color decks aren't as popular right now, but they were big for a long time and our options for usable lands has only gotten better. It's just been a little bit. I also bumped to 24 land because although you have a low enough curve for the most part, you really want to make sure you're hitting the landfalls for Geopede and Lynx and Fetching for Lavamancer.
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
You seem to be missing what we're actually saying. We aren't saying a 3 color deck is undoable in standard. I actually play a couple of 3 color decks that have been quite successful. We're saying that 3 colors is not optimal for an aggro deck. With your deck example, it's ok, since you made mroe of a midrange build than aggro (though still a bit iffy in my opinion because of the many double green costs). Even with the 2 color aggro I'm playing now, getting the right color combination in the early turns can be a pain (and I'm playing allied colors, with dual lands and crap). I tried a Naya aggro for a bit, but after how awful the mana consistency was, I cut it to the two colors that were the best for me, red and green.
Edit: Also, what I'm saying, is that with a midrange list such as what you threw together should no longer be deemed at "Zoo."
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Loam Lion
4 Goblin Guide
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Plated Geopede
so its Boros then, right? the odd man out there is Loam Lion which unfortunately cannot be supported because there's no easy way of getting a forest into play for it. We don't have Stomping Ground or Temple Garden to smooth that out. it basically has to be removed and replaced with some other creature. Maybe a Spikeshot Elder or even Elite Vanguard.
and there's no benefit at all to green. there aren't any green 1 or 2 mana creatures that ought to be run in this kind of deck. the closest thing to it is Skinshifter, but lets be honest, thats not an incredibly impressive card in straight aggro and hardly worth splashing for.
the only conclusion i can draw is that Boros IS Standard Zoo, period. the three color RGW decks are all midrange decks and not any kind of Zoo deck at all.
Because steppe lynx is that good. Your second list is also no longer zoo, what with the vengies and the garruk.
My Sales Post!
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Goblin Guide
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Skinshifter
4 Plated Geopede
Casts:
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Burst Lightning
4 Incinerate
4 Dismember
2 Oblivion Ring
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Arid Mesa
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Terramophic Expanse
1 Forest
2 Plains
3 Mountain
WUBRG Door to NothingnessWUBRG 20-4-1
WRBoros HumansWR 67-15-3
WBWB TokensWB 32-5-3
Current legacy Decks:
RRRed Deck WinsRR 17-4-0
*I missed top 8 of a TCG Player 1k based off of breakers playing Door to Nothingness. I was terribly sad.
3x Grim Lavamancer
3x Goblin Guide
3x Goblin Bushwacker
3x Birds of Paradise
3x Skinshifter
3x Loam Lion
3x Porcelain Legionaire
Non-creature Spells (15)
3x Beastmaster Ascension
3x Fog
3x Tanglesap
3x Lead the Stampede
3x Incinerate
2x teetering Peak
2x Sejiri Steppe
2x Turntimber Grove
2x Plains
3x Mountain
4x Forest
4x Sunpetal Grove
4x Rootbound Crag
3x Squadron Hawk
3x Vault Skirge
3x Journey to Nowhere
3x Raid Bombardment
3x Signal Pest
Standard:
UB Biomancer Beatdown
UG Elven Stompy
RWGu Slivers
Modern:
Naya Sliver Zoo
Jund Kolonian Ooze Control
EDH:
Rith, the Awakener Populate
Slivers (rotating general)
Hana, Ship's Navigator- Pillow Fort
There is plenty of value in green skinshifter, scythe tiger believe it or not he is really good at feeding lavamancer and being a turn 1 wild nacatl with shroud (you lose a land but who cares nothing cost over 3 anyway). Outside of creatures there is the new draw of Hunter's something from m12 and if you go creatures there is lead the stampede. You also have access to birds of paradise, this lets you leave mana up t2 for a skinshifter activation on defense, hit a t2 sword and swing with it t3 (that is a turn faster than caw blade). I mean why not run swords? Zoo runs jitte and with bloodstorm berserker, skinshifter, and birds for evasion hell yeah. There are even great answer cards in green right now. Vines of Vastwood to stop twin. Beast Within to turn a mana heavy draw favorable when you run out of gas, respond to removal by making it a 3/3, deal with planeswalkers, or just shrink a titan. Also with the scars duals your manabase doesn't have to take a huge hit. Here is an example of Naya.
4 steppe lynx
3 bloodstorm berserker
4 skinshifter
4 goblin guide
4 grim lavamancer
4 birds of paradise
2 scythe tiger
2 plated geopede
1 oblivion ring
4 lightning bolt
1 beast within
2 vines of vastwood
4 copperline gorge
4 razorverge thicket
2 plains
1 forest
4 mountain
4 arid mesa
2 teetering peaks
1 verdant catacombs
1 terramorphic expanse
Honestly after just throwing this on here I would cut white to go more burn and maybe hunter's insight.