Nether-Go was a control deck from Mercadian Masques - Invasion Standard. It was completely full of spot removal and alot of permission, with 3 copies of a simple recurring 2/2 as a win condition.
I had some ideas come up, and using Blood Ghast, would like to recreate this deck. (We also have the always great Creeping Tar Pit.)
There are tons of options for a deck like this, but I think sticking with the permission-base seems the strongest. The decklist I'll post is pretty awkward and miles from optimal, but I'll bounce some ideas around.
Counterspell choices: Cards like Spell Pierce, Mana Leak, "soft counters" only carry some value here. We're pulling a long-game, here. We want to say "no," not "I'd prefer you didn't." Deprive becomes legitimate as it grants us yet another additional recursion (if necessary.) I like 3-4 Stoic Rebuttal/Cancel, depending on the number of copies of Deprive feels right (I think 1-2 in the 75, even with the synergy.) Spell Pierce is hit or miss, perhaps a 3rd in the board, never 4 for a deck like this, though. Mindbreak Trap is quite useful, as we don't have a sound answer to Thrun. Bloodghast cannot chump-block. I think 1-1 MD/SB of MBTrap seems fair.
Removal: The situation I've been pondering with removal is that we want early game answers, because somewhere around T4, they won't be resolving much more. I was thinking 3 Burst Lightning, 2 Pyroclasm (with 2 SB,) 1-2 Doom Blade / Go For The Throat. R spells defeat Disfigure 9/10 times. Probably a second or third 1B spot shot in the board. Additional sweeper options are plentiful in R & B. Black Sun's Zenith, Slagstorm, Ratchet Bomb, & Consume The Meek are all very nice, and beyond the 4 copies of Pyroclasm, I think we can get away with only 1-2 more sweepers.
Discard: This is something I would really like to incorporate into the deck, but is the one thing I can't seem to make room for (well, 1 of 2 things, more on the other later.) In the list I had toyed with I grinded and grinded until I squeezed 2 Inquisition Of Kozilek in, but then things moved to the SB and I could not fit any more B discard in. We'll see what we can come up with.
Draw power: The pinnacle of a permission deck, the reason we get to say "no" so often. Of course we need Jace. If you want to counter a spell everyturn, or maybe even more than 1, you need 4 copies of this guy. 4 Preordain feels pretty standard for a U/X control deck, and I think 3 copies of Jace's Ingenuity feels really good. I wanted 4, but I don't want multiples in my opener.
Lands: This is something that's gonna take some work. I definately want 4 Creeping Tar Pit. I've considered 1+ Lavaclaw Reaches, but don't know how many ETBT lands I want to pack, yet. 4 Scalding Tarn are also a must, as landfall is relevant to our interests. I'm still teetering back and forth about Tectonic Edge. Unfortunately there is no way we could support a playset, though I've thought of 1 MD, and 0-1 SB. Some combination of Tectonic Edge & Spreading Seas totalling at, probably 3, seems pretty good.
Sideboard: This gets pretty wild. U/B already has pretty nutty SB cards, given they like singletons and 1-2 ofs MD with more in the board, so this is about the same. Definately 2 Pyroclasm, and 2-3 Flashfreeze. 1 Mindbreak Trap (assuming 1 MD.) Something I really want to incorporate is a Trinket Mage package (the second thing I wanted MD but could not fit.) Not a huge broad one, but just a neat little techy one....
Brittle Effigy is really good against Tezzeret.dec, even though permission should roflstomp them every time. It's also good for Valakut, and great against Mono-Green Eldrazi, should that ever show up again.
Elixir Of Immortality is the card I'm the keenest on. We could use the lifegain. It's a sound 1 drop for the "Contested Warzone decks" of today. It can keep the counterspells and removal flowing no matter how long it takes us to finish the job. Just be sure not to shuffle your Bloodghasts.
Darksteel Axe. "lolwut" you might say. This makes Bloodghast a Vengevine. Do want. If you need to quicken the clock, or chop down a wall, this is your tool. 50 minute rounds are pretty tight, y'know.
Nil Spellbomb, rarely relevant, but when it shines, it shines bright. Cantrip can give you a surprise card if your opp hit you with discard and thinks your out of answers.
Everflowing Chalice. Great card, but probably a pass, here.
Flayer Husk (I'm really stretching now) but Trinket Mage turns into a 2/2 + 1/1 for 3U. Decent against Boros etc later on, but probably not worth the effort.
Chimeric Mass could be of assistance, but I think man-lands & 'Ghasts can do the grind since we never want to tap out, this guy wouldn't get too big.
So anyway....here's the basic list (no sideboard as of now.)
Tried it before. Long time ago, before Eldrazi. It was pretty good back then. But now you can't really out-attrition Eldrazi / Valakut. Guess nobody plays Eldrazi anymore but Valakut, yes
I see what you're sayin' but heavy permission is actually pretty good against Valakut (and you're right, nobody plays Eldrazi right now.) I did consider something to the effect of 1 Tec Edge MD, 1 Tec Edge SB, and maybe a singleton Spreading Seas somewhere.
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I think, for the moment, looking at this list Meow-Go seems to just be better. Meow-Go can put a ridiculous 7-10 cat finisher down on the table EoT and then beat face for lethal out of nowhere. Two problems I see with Bloodghast. It can't block, and it doesn't have haste unless the opponent is at 10 or less. White Sun's Zenith allows surprise blockers and have pseudo-haste by being instant cast.
I am just theorizing here, but red doesn't add much that black doesn't already have, and you aren't even using what it does offer, and you shouldn't be. I would cut red. It smooths out the mana base, allowing you to hit BB for bloodghast and UU for counters early. Furthermore, I recommend Marsh Casualties in place of Pyroclasm, and some combination of Duress and Inquisition would be good. However, this is all starting to sound familiar because it is U/B control, that is what Bloodghast control could possibly be, a slightly different take on U/B control similar to Meow-go being a slightly different take on U/W control.
With the presence of Bloodghast I think Sorin Markov could be good. He turns your bloodghasts online immediately, or he does a slow burn on aggro and soaks up some damage for you.
The deck you are modeling this after used Nether Spirit as a win con? The difference between him and Bloodghast is he can block. This gave that deck loads of CA vs aggro, and an unstoppable (without exile) threat for control. Nether Spirit is almost a recurring spot removal. Bloodghast is not, so you'll need to be more aggressive in your playstyle, I think.
Sorin Markov is card advantage here in a large way, and most permission decks now do have a turn or so where they come close or do tap out. Against aggro, if the game goes long enough for you to get him down and plus two on him that is +8 life for you right there (in theory, +2 from killing a creature and he's at 6 loyalty (not even mentioning removal of a threat) ). I would say he doesn't fit in a lot of places, but being as this is a largely unexplored concept, that is untested (granted with explored elements), I think he's at least worth a look. (Even as a quick way to give your opponent -10). Markov immediately brings your wincon online, which to me is a good reason to tap out.
You have to race the established clock set down by other control in the meta.
EDIT: I thought Nether Spirit had haste for some reason, I changed my post a bit.
I see what you're saying. I mean...Shoot em to ten, land drop, swing, pretty good. Will certainly consider. Liliana Vess also crossed my mind, solely because she forces them to run their spell into a counter, or it will be simply discarded anyway.
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I was playing a U/R Pyromancer Ascension deck yesterday for playtesting one of my home brews. It made me realize again how much I hate permission style control. Light permission is good, maybe as low as 6 and as high as 10, but I hated drawing countermagic, answering threats for one for one and struggling with hand fixing (call to mind, preordain, foresee, and see beyond as well as halimar depths) to do it all again.
What I like better, and what I find plays better/does better in type 2, are decks that consistently threaten counter magic mana (having 2 or 3 land always open) and actually do other stuff (Plainswalkers and monolithic threats are good, White Sun's Zenith is good). This is primarily because consistently over the course of magic's history the card sifting has gone down in quality (sometimes there are gems Sensei's Divining Top and I guess Jace, even though I think he is counter intuitive to draw-go permission). This makes refilling ones hand a chore. I like the inevitability of bloodghast in control because you are more likely to hit land drops. But, I do not like the idea of stalling the game til you win with summoning sick 2/1s.
Sorin Markov as a 2-of maybe has him coming in turn 8 or 9? It changes the clock from 10 turns to a much more resilient 5 turns. Nothing short of Condemn is going to remove those bloodghasts.
Tar Pits can get you haste'd Ghasts relatively easily.
The main reason I'm wanting a new Control variant is because, while I completely respect Caw-Blade or what have you, I feel like it will be overcome, and then it simply won't stand a chance. I want a really slowroll resilient control deck.
Draw-go is pretty shameful to play with, but it can do really well in a proper meta. This one is probably a bit too fast.
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Skeleton seems much better for this deck then bloodghast, however, why not run both? Also, equipment seems like a nessacary evil for this deck, so maybe playing trinket mage with darksteel axe and other useful trinkets would be a better call. I envision something like 4 Reassembling Skeleton and 4 Trinket Mage to start, then adding in darksteel axe, elixir of immortality (maybe).
Black has the best answer to thrun in black sun's zenith, plus black has the best removal and it has grim discovery (which seems relevant considering we want to be able to recur threats from the yard, plues tec edge and tar pit), so I am in favor of cutting red.
I like Infiltration Lens Over Like a Darksteel Axe in this deck, I think it has better synergy with the strategy. I do feel like Preordain should go in over Jace's Ingenuity and possibly a counterspell, but there's nothing to lose from testing it.
Sideboards should be made after playtesting so obviously thats not ready yet. I think Im just gonna board into Faeries.
I had some ideas come up, and using Blood Ghast, would like to recreate this deck. (We also have the always great Creeping Tar Pit.)
There are tons of options for a deck like this, but I think sticking with the permission-base seems the strongest. The decklist I'll post is pretty awkward and miles from optimal, but I'll bounce some ideas around.
Counterspell choices: Cards like Spell Pierce, Mana Leak, "soft counters" only carry some value here. We're pulling a long-game, here. We want to say "no," not "I'd prefer you didn't." Deprive becomes legitimate as it grants us yet another additional recursion (if necessary.) I like 3-4 Stoic Rebuttal/Cancel, depending on the number of copies of Deprive feels right (I think 1-2 in the 75, even with the synergy.) Spell Pierce is hit or miss, perhaps a 3rd in the board, never 4 for a deck like this, though. Mindbreak Trap is quite useful, as we don't have a sound answer to Thrun. Bloodghast cannot chump-block. I think 1-1 MD/SB of MBTrap seems fair.
Removal: The situation I've been pondering with removal is that we want early game answers, because somewhere around T4, they won't be resolving much more. I was thinking 3 Burst Lightning, 2 Pyroclasm (with 2 SB,) 1-2 Doom Blade / Go For The Throat. R spells defeat Disfigure 9/10 times. Probably a second or third 1B spot shot in the board. Additional sweeper options are plentiful in R & B. Black Sun's Zenith, Slagstorm, Ratchet Bomb, & Consume The Meek are all very nice, and beyond the 4 copies of Pyroclasm, I think we can get away with only 1-2 more sweepers.
Discard: This is something I would really like to incorporate into the deck, but is the one thing I can't seem to make room for (well, 1 of 2 things, more on the other later.) In the list I had toyed with I grinded and grinded until I squeezed 2 Inquisition Of Kozilek in, but then things moved to the SB and I could not fit any more B discard in. We'll see what we can come up with.
Draw power: The pinnacle of a permission deck, the reason we get to say "no" so often. Of course we need Jace. If you want to counter a spell everyturn, or maybe even more than 1, you need 4 copies of this guy. 4 Preordain feels pretty standard for a U/X control deck, and I think 3 copies of Jace's Ingenuity feels really good. I wanted 4, but I don't want multiples in my opener.
Lands: This is something that's gonna take some work. I definately want 4 Creeping Tar Pit. I've considered 1+ Lavaclaw Reaches, but don't know how many ETBT lands I want to pack, yet. 4 Scalding Tarn are also a must, as landfall is relevant to our interests. I'm still teetering back and forth about Tectonic Edge. Unfortunately there is no way we could support a playset, though I've thought of 1 MD, and 0-1 SB. Some combination of Tectonic Edge & Spreading Seas totalling at, probably 3, seems pretty good.
Sideboard: This gets pretty wild. U/B already has pretty nutty SB cards, given they like singletons and 1-2 ofs MD with more in the board, so this is about the same. Definately 2 Pyroclasm, and 2-3 Flashfreeze. 1 Mindbreak Trap (assuming 1 MD.) Something I really want to incorporate is a Trinket Mage package (the second thing I wanted MD but could not fit.) Not a huge broad one, but just a neat little techy one....
Brittle Effigy is really good against Tezzeret.dec, even though permission should roflstomp them every time. It's also good for Valakut, and great against Mono-Green Eldrazi, should that ever show up again.
Elixir Of Immortality is the card I'm the keenest on. We could use the lifegain. It's a sound 1 drop for the "Contested Warzone decks" of today. It can keep the counterspells and removal flowing no matter how long it takes us to finish the job. Just be sure not to shuffle your Bloodghasts.
Darksteel Axe. "lolwut" you might say. This makes Bloodghast a Vengevine. Do want. If you need to quicken the clock, or chop down a wall, this is your tool. 50 minute rounds are pretty tight, y'know.
Nil Spellbomb, rarely relevant, but when it shines, it shines bright. Cantrip can give you a surprise card if your opp hit you with discard and thinks your out of answers.
Everflowing Chalice. Great card, but probably a pass, here.
Flayer Husk (I'm really stretching now) but Trinket Mage turns into a 2/2 + 1/1 for 3U. Decent against Boros etc later on, but probably not worth the effort.
Chimeric Mass could be of assistance, but I think man-lands & 'Ghasts can do the grind since we never want to tap out, this guy wouldn't get too big.
So anyway....here's the basic list (no sideboard as of now.)
4x Jace, The Mind Sculptor
3x Burst Lightning
2x Deprive
2x Inquisition Of Kozilek
3x Jace's Ingenuity
4x Mana Leak
1x Mindbreak Trap
4x Preordain
2x Pyroclasm
2x Spell Pierce
3x Stoic Rebuttal
4x Creeping Tar Pit
3x Darkslick Shores
3x Drowned Catacomb
1x Evolving Wilds
4x Island
2x Mountain
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Swamp
No sideboard, yet. Thoughts on the general idea, or the list?
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=307188
That's why Burst > Bolt. Also, Doom Blade if necessary (or Go For The Throat.)
I am just theorizing here, but red doesn't add much that black doesn't already have, and you aren't even using what it does offer, and you shouldn't be. I would cut red. It smooths out the mana base, allowing you to hit BB for bloodghast and UU for counters early. Furthermore, I recommend Marsh Casualties in place of Pyroclasm, and some combination of Duress and Inquisition would be good. However, this is all starting to sound familiar because it is U/B control, that is what Bloodghast control could possibly be, a slightly different take on U/B control similar to Meow-go being a slightly different take on U/W control.
With the presence of Bloodghast I think Sorin Markov could be good. He turns your bloodghasts online immediately, or he does a slow burn on aggro and soaks up some damage for you.
I don't like Sorin, though. I don't want to tap 6 mana. Ever. Unless it's for a spell that is uncounterable and reads "Destroy target player."
Sorin Markov is card advantage here in a large way, and most permission decks now do have a turn or so where they come close or do tap out. Against aggro, if the game goes long enough for you to get him down and plus two on him that is +8 life for you right there (in theory, +2 from killing a creature and he's at 6 loyalty (not even mentioning removal of a threat) ). I would say he doesn't fit in a lot of places, but being as this is a largely unexplored concept, that is untested (granted with explored elements), I think he's at least worth a look. (Even as a quick way to give your opponent -10). Markov immediately brings your wincon online, which to me is a good reason to tap out.
You have to race the established clock set down by other control in the meta.
EDIT: I thought Nether Spirit had haste for some reason, I changed my post a bit.
What I like better, and what I find plays better/does better in type 2, are decks that consistently threaten counter magic mana (having 2 or 3 land always open) and actually do other stuff (Plainswalkers and monolithic threats are good, White Sun's Zenith is good). This is primarily because consistently over the course of magic's history the card sifting has gone down in quality (sometimes there are gems Sensei's Divining Top and I guess Jace, even though I think he is counter intuitive to draw-go permission). This makes refilling ones hand a chore. I like the inevitability of bloodghast in control because you are more likely to hit land drops. But, I do not like the idea of stalling the game til you win with summoning sick 2/1s.
Sorin Markov as a 2-of maybe has him coming in turn 8 or 9? It changes the clock from 10 turns to a much more resilient 5 turns. Nothing short of Condemn is going to remove those bloodghasts.
The main reason I'm wanting a new Control variant is because, while I completely respect Caw-Blade or what have you, I feel like it will be overcome, and then it simply won't stand a chance. I want a really slowroll resilient control deck.
Draw-go is pretty shameful to play with, but it can do really well in a proper meta. This one is probably a bit too fast.
RUGCascadeVineRUG
All Formats
WBRBrozhovWBR
RI Bleed FlamesR
EDH
WBROros, The AvengerWBR
URNiv MizzetUR
RNorin, The waryR
Skeleton seems much better for this deck then bloodghast, however, why not run both? Also, equipment seems like a nessacary evil for this deck, so maybe playing trinket mage with darksteel axe and other useful trinkets would be a better call. I envision something like 4 Reassembling Skeleton and 4 Trinket Mage to start, then adding in darksteel axe, elixir of immortality (maybe).
Black has the best answer to thrun in black sun's zenith, plus black has the best removal and it has grim discovery (which seems relevant considering we want to be able to recur threats from the yard, plues tec edge and tar pit), so I am in favor of cutting red.
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Cremate
4 Think Twice
3 Forbbiden Alchemy
3 Syncopate
3 Psychic Strike
2 Negate
3 Dimir Charm
3 Tragic Slip
3 Tribute to Hunger
3 Mutilate
2 Vanishment
3 Evolving Wilds
4 Watery Grave
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Island
8 Swamp
2x Trinket Mage
3x Jace, The Mind Sculptor
Spells:
4x Mana Leak
2x Spell Pierce
3x Stoic Rebuttal
1x Deprive
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Jace's Ingenuity
4x Black Sun's Zenith
2x Doomblade
1x Infiltration Lens
4x Darckslick Shores
4x Creeping Tarpit
4x Drowned Catacomb
3x Scalding Tarn
2x Marsh Flats
4x Island
4x Swamp
I like Infiltration Lens Over Like a Darksteel Axe in this deck, I think it has better synergy with the strategy. I do feel like Preordain should go in over Jace's Ingenuity and possibly a counterspell, but there's nothing to lose from testing it.
Sideboards should be made after playtesting so obviously thats not ready yet. I think Im just gonna board into Faeries.