I havnt found Chimeric Mass to be very good...just never seems to work.
The two main issues I still see here are:
no jace at all...at least a few...too damn good to ignore
only go for the throat MD...I still fully believe some sort of split is a lot better.
I know youre just trying out vector asp but I dont see how it works well if youre splitting damage types...If you ran a more complete poison setup I could see it working out but I dont like it much overall.
Maybe we could forgo the creatures entirely and put in a more formidable artifact suite? I'm really considering devising a list that pretty much jumps ship if Tezz isn't on the field. True far more risky but very dangerous if you can defend him. I'm still trying to wrap my head around deck tags and such but this is the list that I'm considering atm. Havent really tweaked the numbers atm and havent playtested either. Just brain storming magic atm.
Instants - 14
3 x Blue Sun's Zenith
4 x Mana Leak
3 x Stoic Rebuttal
2 x Doom Blade
2 x Go For the Throat
Planewalkers - 5
2 x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Artifacts - 18
3 x Brittle Effigy
3 x Tumble Magnet
3 x Sphere of the Suns
2 x Lux Cannon
1 x Spine of Ish Sah
2 x Throne of Geth
3 x Ever-Flowing Chalice
Lands - 23
3 x Inkmoth Nexus
4 x Creeping Tar Pit
4 x Drowning Catacomb
5 x Island
3 x Swamp
3 x Tectonic Edge
Card choices are as follows. The basic idea behind this set up is absolute control utilizing artifacts and a handful of counters. Even without Tezzeret to animate artifacts, you have the 4 tar pits and the 3 inkmoth nexus's. True Infect isn't exactly compatible with simply trying to outright kill your opponent, but it is a viable method of eliminating them if the need arises.
The artifacts chosen are a rough idea based on the Lux Cannon/Proliferate suite. Use the Throne to create impressive CA if your opponent attempts to kill your animated artifacts. Proliferate affects your Lux cannon, chalice, magnet, and Sphere, thus allowing more mana, control, and removal. Also the singleton Spine is VERY receptive to the throne allowing you to eliminate with ease multiple threats. And Brittle Effigy is simply amazing by itself.
However with this suite I realized that quick and efficient removal is needed, thus the 2-2 split with Go for the throat and good ol doom blade. Also Mana leak is key for early game and even mid game with Stoic rebuttal for hard counters and late game. Then the draw suite of the reoccurring BSZ and JTMS should be more then enough.
And yet as much as I would hope that this works out there are many glaring flaws that I would love to work out when I have the chance. The singleton spine is nearly worthless by itself and even once you can start abusing throne it deals with any permanent but only if your opponent cannot deal with it.
Without Tezz the deck has a MUCH harder time dealing with the opponent then it should. A lot of pieces of the deck require each other to be more effective and while that woks wonders on paper, real life application and testing will more then likely dictate a different approach.
Also with Tezz before JTMS you run the risk of shuffling a large number of key cards away. Artifacts can only provide one half of the equation. Removal and possible creatures with a bit of mana fixing. However the deck will require the draw and counters that Tezz will inadvertently shuffle away. It is unfortunate that I cannot begin testing for another couple of weeks until I can obtain all the cards needed. I would LOVE to begin playtesting now. But of course ideas are ideas and that is where everything begins!!!
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Standard U// SoM/Inn Rotation Grixis Control W/L/D 22-7-2 (4-3 in 5k, Dropped 7th round)
Status: Reactivated
U// Inn/RtR Rotation Grixis Control Tournament W/L/D 3-1-0 Testing 1-0-0
Status: Active
Modern
Not getting into it yet. No local modern tourneys
EDH G Azusa W/L/D 8-2-0 Status: Back! but retired for now
Just proxy the cards on top of commons? Its pretty easy to test cards you dont have this way.
Deck tags simply are (take away the space after first bracket and before last bracket)
[ deck ]
then the list
cards like
4x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
then at the end of the list
[ /deck ]
figuring out how to make it fit in the inside of the box it makes is pretty easy also.
As for your card choices...my biggest question would be, if youre trying to go all in on a Tezz plan, why wouldnt you run 4x Tezz? The 2nd question would be why you would run inkmoth nexus...there is no point in mixing up your win conditions...if you really want to go that route then you might as well drop your other stuff and add infect creatures or ways to give them infect, which I think is a bad idea atm. Inkmoth also hoses your mana base, especially with tec edge...and it even only shows you running 3 tech edge which I think is a really bad idea with no spreading seas. Sure you have "mana fixing" from sphere of the suns...but sphere of the suns itself can get destroyed/countered and isnt availible till turn 3 at best, I think its a bad option. Also too few lands overall imo, you cant rely on sphere and chalice to get you where you need to be, I think youre going to find yourself way behind on mana development far too often.
I think that list is too slow to do what you want it to do.\
lich seems like he would fit better in some sort of aggro tezz deck tho...id rather just play Abyssal Persecutor or just wait for Grave Titan...the control deck doesnt really need a 5/5 turn 3 to win. A UB aggro or maybe a fish type ub deck could abuse him pretty good tho id imagine.
I've been extensively testing Tezz in many different archetypes (mostly against Valakut because that seems to be the problem MU) and I've come to a number of conclusions.
Firstly, I don't believe Tezz is an all or nothing card. I think he can be played as a singleton, or a full set. It all depends on what your deck is trying to do.
Secondly, I don't believe an "artifact control" deck has the tools at the moment to pack 20+ artifacts into a deck and expect to maintain significant control of the game. Cards like Tumble Magnet and Lux Cannon seem fine in theory, but in application are either too ineffective or too slow. If you want to run Tezzeret in a UB shell, stick to what works. Keep casting Preordains and Mana Leaks and find some room for Wurmcoils, Chalices, Spheres, and only two or three Tezz. In such a deck, Tezzeret is a passenger, and Jace is still your pilot. Don't get it twisted.
Thirdly, I think a playset of Tezzeret is best run in an artifact aggro deck. I have a pretty decent UWB list that has been performing well that I think utilizes Tezz, as the pilot, in the best manner
I apologize for the lack of deck tags. I'm posting from my Blackberry.
I started with 3 and have been pretty happy with that number..I dont need Tezz to win, but its good enough to want to get at some point in the game...My main use for tezz (outside of being a win condition at some point) is as a Jace enabler in a similar way to Squadron Hawk in the UW caw-go deck...I dont think its something to ignore that Tezz's +1 goes so good together with Jaces +0
So the idea of U/B Machine got me coming up with a decklist. I didn't do anything too original here, just took the old shell of Machine Red and filled it in with U/B
Here's the list so far, sideboard is still under construction
So the idea of U/B Machine got me coming up with a decklist. I didn't do anything too original here, just took the old shell of Machine Red and filled it in with U/B
Here's the list so far, sideboard is still under construction
I was thinking about fitting in a land destruction package of Tec Edge and Spreading Seas between the main and side,
Any thoughts/suggesitons for this list? Seems like it has potential, especially since Aggro will probably get hated out pretty well with MBS
with the proliferation aspect of the deck, i would like to see sphere of the suns added. you could also run inkmoth nexus as a phylactery lich target and as a point to proliferate poison tokens on the opponent. SB you could add phyrexian revoker for the pithing needle effect (naming jace in the mirror). Darksteel Plate or Darksteel Axe would also be good in this deck as both Tezz -1 targets, lich targets, and as thrumming bird buffs.
Here's a list I've had the most success with, by far, against Boros, Knights, and Valakut, and RUG (all with MBS cards added). I feel this is the best way to utilize Tezzeret, at least for now.
Im not sure I see fully how that list beats the mirror consistently.
4 everflowing chalice and 2 sphere of the suns seems excessive, especially the 4 chalice with 0 trinket mages just seems bad.
I also dont like the 3x Wurmcoil as main big guy...is it purely for GftT protection? I feel like only really bad lists are going to run only GftT.
Why only 3 Jace? Why only 2 Tezz? Can you give some reasoning behind your choices? (1 deprive 1 stoic rebuttal seems random, 3 tectonic edge?) Just saying "its really good" doesn't help us much.
You know it's people like lunar that help keep things in perspective. I have to try hard to catch myself trying to utilize bad ideas. I'll playtest tomorrow with a slightly altered build. Only difference is the removal of the clutter. New list looks a wee different. I still think an all or nothing tezz build has the best chance of succeeding.
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Status: Reactivated
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Status: Active
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Im not sure I see fully how that list beats the mirror consistently.
4 everflowing chalice and 2 sphere of the suns seems excessive, especially the 4 chalice with 0 trinket mages just seems bad.
I also dont like the 3x Wurmcoil as main big guy...is it purely for GftT protection? I feel like only really bad lists are going to run only GftT.
Why only 3 Jace? Why only 2 Tezz? Can you give some reasoning behind your choices? (1 deprive 1 stoic rebuttal seems random, 3 tectonic edge?) Just saying "its really good" doesn't help us much.
The artifact ramp package is right on the button, I believe. With six "ramp" spells, I should always draw at least one by turn two. Going from two to four mana is incredibly important, and the key to beating the mirror. Being able to drop Jace or Memoricide a turn before your opponent is key in the mirror. The artifact ramp spells also churn out Wurmcoils a turn (or two) faster, which is the stoneblade against aggro, as well as power out a big Zenith quicker, as well. The artifact ramp spells are probably the most important "change" in the entire deck, and I think six is the right number.
I mixed up the counter spells because I want my opponent to think I have more than I really do. Stoic has metalcraft more often than not. Both Stoic and Deprive are solid late game counters, which you need sometimes.
I don't think any more than three Jace is necessary. I've considered adding Beleren to the board, but I'm not sure I need them with the consistent ability to drop big Jace turn three. I also have plenty of early game draw between Preordain and Sea Gate, so finding a Jace shouldn't be an issue. I don't feel any more than two Tezz is necessary because he's not the focal point of the deck. I can win without him, and I'm just not running enough artifacts to facilitate him well enough. He's there for some late game push, turning Chalices and Vats into 5/5s, or finding a Wurmcoil.
I like Wurmcoil here primarily because of Tezz. I also like the lifegain against RW and Valakut. It may just be a personal preference, but I like Wurmcoil over a Titan in this deck.
Hope that answered some of your questions.
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The artifact ramp package is right on the button, I believe. With six "ramp" spells, I should always draw at least one by turn two. Going from two to four mana is incredibly important, and the key to beating the mirror. Being able to drop Jace or Memoricide a turn before your opponent is key in the mirror. The artifact ramp spells also churn out Wurmcoils a turn (or two) faster, which is the stoneblade against aggro, as well as power out a big Zenith quicker, as well. The artifact ramp spells are probably the most important "change" in the entire deck, and I think six is the right number.
The problem here as I see it, is that 6 also means that some times youre going to see a lot more than 1 by turn 2...I still also really hate that Sphere comes into play tapped...the main strength of Chalice is that on turn 3 you can play it and still have leak mana open, which you cant with sphere. Playing it turn 2 gives you leak mana on turn 3, but prevents stopping say a Lotus Cobra or something that might kill you from aggro. Playing tap out like this is cool but not if your opponent is tapping out and playing much better spells (like lotus cobra vs sphere). When you run say 3 or 4 (easier of course if youre running Trinket Mage, which I think you should if youre trying to run chalice) then you are still pretty likely to see one by turn 4 where playing one still gets you a Wurmcoil a turn earlier. I feel like if you are trying to run this much ramp then you are probably better off running something like RUG/BUG and having a legit ramp plan where you can play turn 3 Jace turn 4 Titan or turn 4 Jace with leak backup which you cant really do with the artifact "ramp."
My build for example uses the Chalice more for mid game ramp than early game ramp...The idea is that it gets me clear of Mana Leak (or gets me mana to play something big with leak backup) sooner than my opponent in control mirrors, and as stated earlier if im playing a chalice on say turn 3/4 (instead of 2) I am leaving myself with Leak or Doom Blade (GftT) mana open more often than not. Ill usually only play Chalice turn 2 if I really have nothing in hand and need to get to big stuff or lose, and it usually doesnt matter if im on the play or draw. Being able to play Jace turn earlier, even on the play, means nothing if they are on 2 mana (cause they didnt tap out to play chalice or sphere) vs our 4, and they have a leak in hand.
I also wouldnt worry too much about playing Memoricide against the mirror...control decks have enough variable ways to win or stop memoricide that its really not worth it.
Being able to pump out a big BSZ earlier doesnt really mean much either since early game their creatures aren't going to be that big anyways...Maybe you're trying to kill a Percy with it?
I understood why Stoic (over say cancel) I just didnt understand why 1 stoic and 1 deprive when stoic is clearly a much better option for a deck running a decent amount of artifacts...what happens after the player plays you at say FNM one week then realizes that you aren't on 12 hard counters? Will you still run 1 of each at that point?
Ill give you this, if you test with it a lot and are happy with it and comfortable with the build then play it...its still the most important thing to play what is comfortable to you. Its the 2nd more important thing tho to listen to constructive advice
@ Knighted
Id like that list a lot more if the Eldrazi things were artifacts that worked with Tezz. Id also like to see at least 2 fetchlands (maybe -1 swamp -1 island +1 misty +1 verdant) go in there if you like Eternity Vessel. Inkmoth Nexus also probably doesnt fit into that list real well. I think youd be happier if you dropped those and added more swamps and islands so you dont find yourself color screwed (8 colorless lands is pretty painful) I really like the idea of ichor wellspring with Tezz, how has it been working out for you?
Newest version. Tried to get a little of everything in there. Use tezz on ornithopter for a beater w/ evasion, jace them, grave titan them or just blow up all their stuff. Thinking I might want to try contagion engine but I'm scared to mess with the curve.
2x Brittle Effigy
1x Chimeric Mass
1x Elixir of Immortality
1x Everflowing Chalice
1x Frost Titan
4x Go for the Throat
1x Grave Titan
4x Mana Leak
2x Mimic Vat
4x Preordain
2x Ratchet Bomb
4x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4x Trinket Mage
2x Vector Asp
4x Darkslick Shores
3x Drowned Catacomb
2x Misty Rainforest
4x Island
4x Swamp
4x Tectonic Edge
2x Doom Blade
2x Duress
2x Into the Roil
2x Memoricide
1x Nihil Spellbomb
3x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Signal Pest
2x Smother
The two main issues I still see here are:
no jace at all...at least a few...too damn good to ignore
only go for the throat MD...I still fully believe some sort of split is a lot better.
I know youre just trying out vector asp but I dont see how it works well if youre splitting damage types...If you ran a more complete poison setup I could see it working out but I dont like it much overall.
1 Drop with evasion and battle cry plus Tezz could later boost him
Instants - 14
3 x Blue Sun's Zenith
4 x Mana Leak
3 x Stoic Rebuttal
2 x Doom Blade
2 x Go For the Throat
Planewalkers - 5
2 x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Artifacts - 18
3 x Brittle Effigy
3 x Tumble Magnet
3 x Sphere of the Suns
2 x Lux Cannon
1 x Spine of Ish Sah
2 x Throne of Geth
3 x Ever-Flowing Chalice
Lands - 23
3 x Inkmoth Nexus
4 x Creeping Tar Pit
4 x Drowning Catacomb
5 x Island
3 x Swamp
3 x Tectonic Edge
Card choices are as follows. The basic idea behind this set up is absolute control utilizing artifacts and a handful of counters. Even without Tezzeret to animate artifacts, you have the 4 tar pits and the 3 inkmoth nexus's. True Infect isn't exactly compatible with simply trying to outright kill your opponent, but it is a viable method of eliminating them if the need arises.
The artifacts chosen are a rough idea based on the Lux Cannon/Proliferate suite. Use the Throne to create impressive CA if your opponent attempts to kill your animated artifacts. Proliferate affects your Lux cannon, chalice, magnet, and Sphere, thus allowing more mana, control, and removal. Also the singleton Spine is VERY receptive to the throne allowing you to eliminate with ease multiple threats. And Brittle Effigy is simply amazing by itself.
However with this suite I realized that quick and efficient removal is needed, thus the 2-2 split with Go for the throat and good ol doom blade. Also Mana leak is key for early game and even mid game with Stoic rebuttal for hard counters and late game. Then the draw suite of the reoccurring BSZ and JTMS should be more then enough.
And yet as much as I would hope that this works out there are many glaring flaws that I would love to work out when I have the chance. The singleton spine is nearly worthless by itself and even once you can start abusing throne it deals with any permanent but only if your opponent cannot deal with it.
Without Tezz the deck has a MUCH harder time dealing with the opponent then it should. A lot of pieces of the deck require each other to be more effective and while that woks wonders on paper, real life application and testing will more then likely dictate a different approach.
Also with Tezz before JTMS you run the risk of shuffling a large number of key cards away. Artifacts can only provide one half of the equation. Removal and possible creatures with a bit of mana fixing. However the deck will require the draw and counters that Tezz will inadvertently shuffle away. It is unfortunate that I cannot begin testing for another couple of weeks until I can obtain all the cards needed. I would LOVE to begin playtesting now. But of course ideas are ideas and that is where everything begins!!!
Standard
U// SoM/Inn Rotation Grixis Control W/L/D 22-7-2 (4-3 in 5k, Dropped 7th round)
Status: Reactivated
U// Inn/RtR Rotation Grixis Control Tournament W/L/D 3-1-0 Testing 1-0-0
Status: Active
Modern
Not getting into it yet. No local modern tourneys
EDH
G Azusa W/L/D 8-2-0 Status: Back! but retired for now
Deck tags simply are (take away the space after first bracket and before last bracket)
[ deck ]
then the list
cards like
4x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
then at the end of the list
[ /deck ]
figuring out how to make it fit in the inside of the box it makes is pretty easy also.
As for your card choices...my biggest question would be, if youre trying to go all in on a Tezz plan, why wouldnt you run 4x Tezz? The 2nd question would be why you would run inkmoth nexus...there is no point in mixing up your win conditions...if you really want to go that route then you might as well drop your other stuff and add infect creatures or ways to give them infect, which I think is a bad idea atm. Inkmoth also hoses your mana base, especially with tec edge...and it even only shows you running 3 tech edge which I think is a really bad idea with no spreading seas. Sure you have "mana fixing" from sphere of the suns...but sphere of the suns itself can get destroyed/countered and isnt availible till turn 3 at best, I think its a bad option. Also too few lands overall imo, you cant rely on sphere and chalice to get you where you need to be, I think youre going to find yourself way behind on mana development far too often.
I think that list is too slow to do what you want it to do.\
Biggie.
Firstly, I don't believe Tezz is an all or nothing card. I think he can be played as a singleton, or a full set. It all depends on what your deck is trying to do.
Secondly, I don't believe an "artifact control" deck has the tools at the moment to pack 20+ artifacts into a deck and expect to maintain significant control of the game. Cards like Tumble Magnet and Lux Cannon seem fine in theory, but in application are either too ineffective or too slow. If you want to run Tezzeret in a UB shell, stick to what works. Keep casting Preordains and Mana Leaks and find some room for Wurmcoils, Chalices, Spheres, and only two or three Tezz. In such a deck, Tezzeret is a passenger, and Jace is still your pilot. Don't get it twisted.
Thirdly, I think a playset of Tezzeret is best run in an artifact aggro deck. I have a pretty decent UWB list that has been performing well that I think utilizes Tezz, as the pilot, in the best manner
I apologize for the lack of deck tags. I'm posting from my Blackberry.
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Steel Overseer
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Stoneforge Mystic
Planeswalkers
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Tempered Steel
3 Mox Opal
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Duress
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Dread Statuary
4 Marsh Flats
2 Swamp
3 Plains
2 Island
Edit: Deck tags added.
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I started with 3 and have been pretty happy with that number..I dont need Tezz to win, but its good enough to want to get at some point in the game...My main use for tezz (outside of being a win condition at some point) is as a Jace enabler in a similar way to Squadron Hawk in the UW caw-go deck...I dont think its something to ignore that Tezz's +1 goes so good together with Jaces +0
Here's the list so far, sideboard is still under construction
4 Thrumming Bird
4 Phylactery Lich
Artifacts - 25
3 Voltaic Key
4 Everflowing Chalice
4 Mox Opal
4 Contagion Clasp
4 Throne of Geth
3 Lux Cannon
3 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Black Sun's Zenith
Planeswalkers - 4
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Manabase - 20
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Drowned Catacomb
8 Swamp
4 Island
3 Memoricide
3 Ratchet Bomb
4 Phyrexian Crusader
5 ?
I was thinking about fitting in a land destruction package of Tec Edge and Spreading Seas between the main and side,
Any thoughts/suggesitons for this list? Seems like it has potential, especially since Aggro will probably get hated out pretty well with MBS
UBRGrixis Control
LegacyUBRDelverRBU
imho
:symr::symw:Boros:symw::symr: 32-6-3 Competitive Play (ret. 4/10)
:symb::symr:B/R Vamps:symr::symb: 22-3 FNM
:symw::symw:WW Quest:symw::symw:
:symr::symr:RDW:symr::symr: 25-4 FNM, 4-2 TCQ (ret. 2/5)
:symr::symw:R/W Boros Landfall:symw::symr: 2-2 (ret. same day)
3 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Sea Gate Oracle
Planeswalkers
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Spells
4 Everflowing Chalice
2 Sphere of the Suns
3 Mimic Vat
4 Mana Leak
1 Stoic Rebuttal
1 Deprive
3 Go for the Throat
2 Black Sun's Zenith
4 Preordain
4 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Tectonic Edge
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Island
3 Swamp
3 Phyrexian Crusader
2 Skinrender
4 Spreading Seas
2 Memoricide
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Duress
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4 everflowing chalice and 2 sphere of the suns seems excessive, especially the 4 chalice with 0 trinket mages just seems bad.
I also dont like the 3x Wurmcoil as main big guy...is it purely for GftT protection? I feel like only really bad lists are going to run only GftT.
Why only 3 Jace? Why only 2 Tezz? Can you give some reasoning behind your choices? (1 deprive 1 stoic rebuttal seems random, 3 tectonic edge?) Just saying "its really good" doesn't help us much.
2 Island
2 Drowned Catacomb
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Swamp
1 Swamp
1 Island
4 Tectonic Edge
Creatures
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Spells
1 Tumble Magnet
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Spine of Ish Sah
3 Sphere of the Suns
2 Contagion Clasp
2 Contagion Engine
3 Throne of Geth
3 Everflowing Chalice
2 Semblance Anvil
3 Preordain
2 Disfigure
3 Stoic Rebuttal
2 All Is Dust
1 Eternity Vessel
3 Ichor Wellspring
2 Tumble Magnet
4 Doom Blade
3 Memoricide
2 Black Sun's Zenith
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
Thoughts?
Standard
U// SoM/Inn Rotation Grixis Control W/L/D 22-7-2 (4-3 in 5k, Dropped 7th round)
Status: Reactivated
U// Inn/RtR Rotation Grixis Control Tournament W/L/D 3-1-0 Testing 1-0-0
Status: Active
Modern
Not getting into it yet. No local modern tourneys
EDH
G Azusa W/L/D 8-2-0 Status: Back! but retired for now
The artifact ramp package is right on the button, I believe. With six "ramp" spells, I should always draw at least one by turn two. Going from two to four mana is incredibly important, and the key to beating the mirror. Being able to drop Jace or Memoricide a turn before your opponent is key in the mirror. The artifact ramp spells also churn out Wurmcoils a turn (or two) faster, which is the stoneblade against aggro, as well as power out a big Zenith quicker, as well. The artifact ramp spells are probably the most important "change" in the entire deck, and I think six is the right number.
I mixed up the counter spells because I want my opponent to think I have more than I really do. Stoic has metalcraft more often than not. Both Stoic and Deprive are solid late game counters, which you need sometimes.
I don't think any more than three Jace is necessary. I've considered adding Beleren to the board, but I'm not sure I need them with the consistent ability to drop big Jace turn three. I also have plenty of early game draw between Preordain and Sea Gate, so finding a Jace shouldn't be an issue. I don't feel any more than two Tezz is necessary because he's not the focal point of the deck. I can win without him, and I'm just not running enough artifacts to facilitate him well enough. He's there for some late game push, turning Chalices and Vats into 5/5s, or finding a Wurmcoil.
I like Wurmcoil here primarily because of Tezz. I also like the lifegain against RW and Valakut. It may just be a personal preference, but I like Wurmcoil over a Titan in this deck.
Hope that answered some of your questions.
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http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=8316611&postcount=1
The problem here as I see it, is that 6 also means that some times youre going to see a lot more than 1 by turn 2...I still also really hate that Sphere comes into play tapped...the main strength of Chalice is that on turn 3 you can play it and still have leak mana open, which you cant with sphere. Playing it turn 2 gives you leak mana on turn 3, but prevents stopping say a Lotus Cobra or something that might kill you from aggro. Playing tap out like this is cool but not if your opponent is tapping out and playing much better spells (like lotus cobra vs sphere). When you run say 3 or 4 (easier of course if youre running Trinket Mage, which I think you should if youre trying to run chalice) then you are still pretty likely to see one by turn 4 where playing one still gets you a Wurmcoil a turn earlier. I feel like if you are trying to run this much ramp then you are probably better off running something like RUG/BUG and having a legit ramp plan where you can play turn 3 Jace turn 4 Titan or turn 4 Jace with leak backup which you cant really do with the artifact "ramp."
My build for example uses the Chalice more for mid game ramp than early game ramp...The idea is that it gets me clear of Mana Leak (or gets me mana to play something big with leak backup) sooner than my opponent in control mirrors, and as stated earlier if im playing a chalice on say turn 3/4 (instead of 2) I am leaving myself with Leak or Doom Blade (GftT) mana open more often than not. Ill usually only play Chalice turn 2 if I really have nothing in hand and need to get to big stuff or lose, and it usually doesnt matter if im on the play or draw. Being able to play Jace turn earlier, even on the play, means nothing if they are on 2 mana (cause they didnt tap out to play chalice or sphere) vs our 4, and they have a leak in hand.
I also wouldnt worry too much about playing Memoricide against the mirror...control decks have enough variable ways to win or stop memoricide that its really not worth it.
Being able to pump out a big BSZ earlier doesnt really mean much either since early game their creatures aren't going to be that big anyways...Maybe you're trying to kill a Percy with it?
I understood why Stoic (over say cancel) I just didnt understand why 1 stoic and 1 deprive when stoic is clearly a much better option for a deck running a decent amount of artifacts...what happens after the player plays you at say FNM one week then realizes that you aren't on 12 hard counters? Will you still run 1 of each at that point?
Ill give you this, if you test with it a lot and are happy with it and comfortable with the build then play it...its still the most important thing to play what is comfortable to you. Its the 2nd more important thing tho to listen to constructive advice
@ Knighted
Id like that list a lot more if the Eldrazi things were artifacts that worked with Tezz. Id also like to see at least 2 fetchlands (maybe -1 swamp -1 island +1 misty +1 verdant) go in there if you like Eternity Vessel. Inkmoth Nexus also probably doesnt fit into that list real well. I think youd be happier if you dropped those and added more swamps and islands so you dont find yourself color screwed (8 colorless lands is pretty painful) I really like the idea of ichor wellspring with Tezz, how has it been working out for you?
4 tezzeret, agent of bolas
2 jace, the mind sculptor
1 jace beleren
4 preordain
3 go for the throat
Creatures (3):
1 grave titan
2 trinket mage
Artifacts (19):
3 throne of geth
2 lux cannon
2 ratchet bomb
3 contagion clasp
2 titan forge
1 elixir of immortality
2 everflowing chalice
1 brittle effigy
2 voltaic key
1 ornithopter
4 creeping tar pit
4 darkslick shores
3 drowned catacomb
4 tectonic edge
2 misty rainforest
4 island
3 swamp
4 phyrexian revoker
1 trinket mage
2 vector asp
2 memoricide
4 stoic rebuttal
2 doom blade
Newest version. Tried to get a little of everything in there. Use tezz on ornithopter for a beater w/ evasion, jace them, grave titan them or just blow up all their stuff. Thinking I might want to try contagion engine but I'm scared to mess with the curve.