So obviously everybody is probably trying to figure out how to break the new tezz in T2 (and extended and maybe even legacy?) It seems to me that there might be enough tools to make it work as a pretty potent control deck similar to Nick Spagnolo's UB list from states but with a use for those bad artifacts outside of their semi meh effects. Jace and Tezz also seem pretty amazing together for insane card advantage...draw draw draw put back a card you dont want and an artifact....look at top 5...get that artifact back...get rid of card you didnt want...next turn get a fresh 3 with jace. Seems like a much better caw-go to me.
Some of the cards im starting with are obviously just to try out new set stuff and also just as filler till I get a better feel for the deck.
Treasure Mage can nab us a great creature vs aggro and a great utility removal card for the mid/late game.
Massacre Wurm and Consecrated Sphinx are pretty sweet imo, but could just as easily be grave/frost titans..both of these options seem more than good enough to test out though.
What are your versions of this deck? I know you guys are thinking of things...lets make this real.
axe is cool and all, and I appreciate that it makes indestructable dudes...but it seems awfully narrow for a control deck....not trying to make a full on tezz deck, just trying to see how well he interacts in a UB control type shell. I do think that we might see some kinda cool UB tempo based aggro based off tezz though for what its worth...could be better, who knows...but I wanna see if we can keep it close to the UB that I love.
axe is cool and all, and I appreciate that it makes indestructable dudes...but it seems awfully narrow for a control deck....not trying to make a full on tezz deck, just trying to see how well he interacts in a UB control type shell. I do think that we might see some kinda cool UB tempo based aggro based off tezz though for what its worth...could be better, who knows...but I wanna see if we can keep it close to the UB that I love.
the problem is, is that you're trying to fit him in a current archetype. A different deck will be created for him and a 5/5 animated axe will be amazing.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern:
Affinity
EDH:
Rhys (Tokens)
Karrthus (Dragons)
Bruna (Auras OP)
its a 5/5 axe that comes down on turn 5? (maybe 3 or 4 or something if youre ramping into tezz with opal and chalice and are lucky?) which is great how in a world filled with 6/6s? Beyond that in such a deck id still probably rather have artifacts that do something becoming my 5/5s so they can be useful outside of tezz on board...yay...+2/0 on my bad artifact/weenie creatures...amazing.
I am trying to fit him into an existing deck type because I believe he can work very very well in that deck type.
I like myr battlesphere, and with Treasure mage availible it seems solid, and certainly works great with Tezz's ultimate..maybe going 1 wurmcoil 1 battlesphere would be a good idea...I still like Wurmcoil and maybe Frost Titan though for times wen Tezz isnt on board. Double good if everybody just blindly switches to Go for the Throat.
Been sneaking on these forums for a while now, looking for a deck to sink my teeth in on my return to magic. Aside from enjoying the possibilities of U/B Control. I honestly believe that Tezzeret can enable a completely different style of control that can be viciously powerful. Studying up on the current meta and card choices to determine what build I would run.
Personally I can't imagine what is wrong with a PW that turns your used up artifacts into 5/5 beatsticks. Esp if the deck is using artifacts that deal directly with your opponents creatures or capability to fight back. Tezzeret enables quite a bit in a way similar to JTMS if not just simply far more narrower. It'll be interesting to get the cards and eventually playtest.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Playing
Standard U// SoM/Inn Rotation Grixis Control W/L/D 22-7-2 (4-3 in 5k, Dropped 7th round)
Status: Reactivated
U// Inn/RtR Rotation Grixis Control Tournament W/L/D 3-1-0 Testing 1-0-0
Status: Active
Modern
Not getting into it yet. No local modern tourneys
EDH G Azusa W/L/D 8-2-0 Status: Back! but retired for now
Been sneaking on these forums for a while now, looking for a deck to sink my teeth in on my return to magic. Aside from enjoying the possibilities of U/B Control. I honestly believe that Tezzeret can enable a completely different style of control that can be viciously powerful. Studying up on the current meta and card choices to determine what build I would run.
Personally I can't imagine what is wrong with a PW that turns your used up artifacts into 5/5 beatsticks. Esp if the deck is using artifacts that deal directly with your opponents creatures or capability to fight back. Tezzeret enables quite a bit in a way similar to JTMS if not just simply far more narrower. It'll be interesting to get the cards and eventually playtest.
This is a good post, and I certainly agree that people are highly underestimating new Tezzeret right now.
He does have many similarities to Jace, and in some ways, much better than Jace. Jace's abilities are much more universal. Nearly every blue deck in the history of Magic has a need for brainstorming, bouncing creatures, and locking their opponents out of top decks. I believe that, in a vacuum, Jace is obviously the more powerful walker, simply because brainstorming is a bit more useful than a fixed Diabolic Vision. However, unlike Jace, Tezzeret's power increases exponentially the more you commit in his direction, like Koth. Unlike Koth, however, Tezzeret doesn't lock you into a single color to get the most out of him.
The single biggest deck building issue with Tezzeret is putting together a list with enough artifacts to NOT whiff on his +1. As people have pointed out, though, there are a decent number of artifacts that can have some value in a control-esque UB. You simply have to play to Tezz's strengths, without cramming in subpar artifacts, and maintaining a relatively solid UB shell.
For instance, here is a very rough, early UB list I've been testing with Tezzeret:
You have eight creatures that either are artifacts themselves, or produce artifacts. Even though Tezz can't draw a Mage himself, running into one is never a bad thing with Tezz out, considering Trinket will always produce an artifact. I originally ran Treasure, too, but figured what the hell, I may as well just run a set of Engines and go for raw power.
Anyway, Axes can always be slapped onto Wurmcoils and Wurmcoil tokens, and they even turn Trinket Mages into semi-formidible threats. They can also be hooked onto a Tar Pit before it crashes into an opposing Jace that just fatesealed. They're universally solid, and only become backbreaking when turned into 5/5 indestructible beasts.
This is a very early, rough list, but you get the point. I've tested completely different builds, including a solar flare Lux Cannon deck that used Voltaic Key, Proliferate, and was slower than all hell.
You can even throw Tezz into an infect deck that uses primarily the artifact creature infectors. Tezz essentially turns your creatures into 10/10s in such a deck.
There are a lot of different routes you can go with this guy and none of them should be ignored.
Edit: I've also splashed white just for Venser in an attempt to abuse Spine of Ish Sah and Ichor Wellspring, as well as resetting the counters on Magnet and Sphere. Venser is also useful at clearing the way for your 5/5 beatsticks, which are usually on the ground and lack evasion.
This is a good post, and I certainly agree that people are highly underestimating new Tezzeret right now.
He does have many similarities to Jace, and in some ways, much better than Jace. Jace's abilities are much more universal. Nearly every blue deck in the history of Magic has a need for brainstorming, bouncing creatures, and locking their opponents out of top decks. I believe that, in a vacuum, Jace is obviously the more powerful walker, simply because brainstorming is a bit more useful than a fixed Diabolic Vision. However, unlike Jace, Tezzeret's power increases exponentially the more you commit in his direction, like Koth. Unlike Koth, however, Tezzeret doesn't lock you into a single color to get the most out of him.
The single biggest deck building issue with Tezzeret is putting together a list with enough artifacts to NOT whiff on his +1. As people have pointed out, though, there are a decent number of artifacts that can have some value in a control-esque UB. You simply have to play to Tezz's strengths, without cramming in subpar artifacts, and maintaining a relatively solid UB shell.
For instance, here is a very rough, early UB list I've been testing with Tezzeret:
You have eight creatures that either are artifacts themselves, or produce artifacts. Even though Tezz can't draw a Mage himself, running into one is never a bad thing with Tezz out, considering Trinket will always produce an artifact. I originally ran Treasure, too, but figured what the hell, I may as well just run a set of Engines and go for raw power.
Anyway, Axes can always be slapped onto Wurmcoils and Wurmcoil tokens, and they even turn Trinket Mages into semi-formidible threats. They can also be hooked onto a Tar Pit before it crashes into an opposing Jace that just fatesealed. They're universally solid, and only become backbreaking when turned into 5/5 indestructible beasts.
This is a very early, rough list, but you get the point. I've tested completely different builds, including a solar flare Lux Cannon deck that used Voltaic Key, Proliferate, and was slower than all hell.
You can even throw Tezz into an infect deck that uses primarily the artifact creature infectors. Tezz essentially turns your creatures into 10/10s in such a deck.
There are a lot of different routes you can go with this guy and none of them should be ignored.
I'm happy you put Tumble Magnet in this list. I've used it outside of artifact builds. A wonderful card that by the time it runs out of steam, you have a shell ready to become a 5/5 beater.
Brittle Effigy is another card that deserves a spot. I cut an Axe or 2 for it. Remember, you can always fetch that one Axe.
The weakest matchup seems to be Valakut due to the lack of Spreading Seas. On the other hand, once Tezz and Jace are on the field, what the Valakut player is doing seems to matter a lot less unless they're on the verge of going off.
I played a lot today with the deck (my build with some small changes along the way)
I hate hate hate Treasure Mage...maybe things just arent going right yet to make it work in games or maybe my build is off, but it just really dissapointed me every time I saw it and I wished it was a trinket mage or just one of the 6cc+ artifacts I wanted to get instead....9 mana for a wurmcoil and 10 for ish sah/battlesphere just is not that amazing.
What is amazing? Mimic Vat was really scary good for me all day long, never ever a bad thing to see at any point in my games and did me a lot of good (lols trinket mage on vat + elixer of immortality is pretty silly) I dunno..with the amount of removal you can run plus it being an artifact for tezz just really seems way way too good not to run.
Brittle effigy is really good...all I can think up, makes too much sense with tezz/trinket mage.
I somehow even with all I did today only ended up playing Spine of Ish Sah like 2 or 3 times...its cool, but seems slow although I was able to recur it once to take out a few things....still though...I think im pretty ready to drop the whole idea of Treasure Mage at this point and just stick to easier to play items that do as much.
Phyrexian Revoker is probably fine in the SB, but he was occasionally pretty good...probably too narrow though for the MB..but still performed great overall...I like him for sure.
I tried out Chimeric Mass too as an obvious Trinket Mage/Tezz target and I was kinda underwhelmed by him..I obviously never really played him for bigger than what tezz would make him anyways, and just as often he might as well have been another brittle effigy or even chalice.
12 artifacts seems like a good number for Tezz...it still misses every once in a while, but its pretty rare, especially with Jace...other decks might need more, but 11-13 seems like the right number for a control type setup.
if you wanted to stick Tez into the current U/B, the best use of him would be to use him like an Elspeth for Inkmoth Nexus. that gives you a two-turn clock if you're able to animate the Nexus and crank the turn you play Tez (around T6 or so if T4 was Jace and T5 was left for tar pits or permission).
aside from that, you can run Treasure Mage and Wurmcoil and use Tez to pump the eventual tokens, or you can use Trinket Mage and Everflowing Chalice to get 5/5 mana dorks.
Take your monoblack deck, then set aside 14 swamps. Add 4 Creeping Tar Pits, 4 Darkslick Shores, 4 Drowned Catacombs, and 2 Jwar isle Refuge and add 4 Jace, the Mindsculptors. Your monoblack deck is instantly better. Better yet, drop those refuges, throw in some islands and some mana leaks, and lo and behold, you're now playing a real deck. Congratulations. Welcome to the world of competitive M:TG.
The Singleton BSZ has been good once or twice, and I dont think its ever been terrible...I dont like to commit too much space MD to board sweepers as ive already got a TON of spot removal MD
I havnt settled on an extra 15 as of yet...its been more of an extra 30 while testing to see what actually works which is why I didnt put a SB in the list in the first post...besides, what I would need to run for my meta might be a lot different than what you need in your meta.
Something along the lines of probably
2-3x Phyrexian Revoker (maybe cutting them from MD, although they have been amazing at times)
1x Brittle Effigy cause its good and exile is better than destroy a lot of times.
1-2x CtM/BSZ bringing my total up to 3 depending on MD useage..I think ill end u going 2 BSZ and 1 CtM most likely, at least for now as both cards seem better in certain situations.
2ishx Doom Blade/GftT to either bring my numbers up overall or to fix the type depending on matchup
3x Spell Pierce cause its just really good
2x Memoricide for valakut
3x Spreading Seas for valakut/vamps
1x Nihil Spellbomb as a maybe good mage/tezz target for some matchups, certainly not one to ignore
But thats pretty rough and obviously it doesnt take any new deck types into consideration which will probably show up by the dozen...so take it with a grain of salt obviously.
Ive also at the moment got Myr Battlesphere in over Wurmcoil Engine...but im still not sold on him, that 1 mana actually made a lot of difference a few times, and while battlesphere is obviously amazing with tezz out any time without Tezz and I wished it was Wurmcoil...so im not sure yet on that slot.
I used to agree with your idea of "no chalice/mass rather play good spells" and id include elixer into that as well...I didnt really like Nick Spagnolo's UB control list even though it won states (and did very well for a while after) because those things were terrible outside of your opening hand and seemed like super weak Trinket Mage targets (although elixer with jace was great and against aggro helped a bit)
The difference now is that those "useless" artifacts are now potentially game breaking with Tezz around. Chalice lets us "ramp" for a turn earlier planeswalker or other larger spell which helps us keep up with RUG and Ramp decks, and lets us cast CtM and BSZ earlier against aggro. It also now can both be a 5/5 creature and deal more damage with tezz abilities and gives us another card that tezz can "draw" us into which is double good with Jace's brainstorm ability....we get to take a shell that was decent before and give it purpose for the mid to late game that was never ever before possible.
Id like Tezz+Inkmoth more if Tezz could find Inkmoth with his +1 ability. I think there is potential for a poison based deck tho which might feature that...maybe...still dont like poison too much tho ;p
What about Tezz plus signal pest, I've been also looking into Kuldotha Forgemaster and droping lots of artifact tokens to fuel it.
In my opinon, inkmoth is not the best way to use Tezz 2.0, You'll get your one shot with it but next turn you would have to use Tezz -1 again if you want to make inkmoth fly again.
So only got in a few matches today, 1 vs Eldrazi Green and 1 vs Valakut..not super fair cause they werent running any besieged cards, but still not a bad place to start.
Pretty nervous about this match game 1, although depending on how you want to SB 2 and 3 should be pretty good overall for you..In fact I did lose both game 1s against those decks although both had what you could consider a very good hand against hands I kept that were kinda sketchy...for example I kept a hand against valakut game 1 (knowing he was on valakut) with 2x Tech edge and a swamp as my lands thinking id have plenty of time to hit land drops and be in it...but that never happened and it was a catch-up game the whole time which didnt work out too well for me, even though he missed on a summoning trap which was cool.
I won the other games (so 2-1 both matches) but 3 of those 4 were tight games where I had to play extreemely tight to not lose. The games are pretty similar to any other UB control match vs ramp, but I did find a few instances where I had some interesting lines of play to win out games...Elixer of Immortality was pretty key vs Valakut to be sure and Mimic Vat was the champ for the Eldrazi matchup. Treasure Mage actually worked good game 3 vs Valakut, although at that point I was winning anyways and it likely wouldnt have mattered...I was just glad that for once I drew him and wasnt bummed about it, lol. I could see Treaure Mage in a UG ramp sorta thing I guess...but even then you should probably have green suns zenith which would be better...maybe as creature tutor 5-8? lol. Myr Battlesphere was cool too today I suppose...Consecrated Sphinx wins games very quickly if not immediately dealt with, those saying hes no good I currently dont get...I hear "well you cant draw 6 against jace cause they will just bounce it.." Sure but then they go -1 on jace and dont get to brainstorm either....I really like him...even against decks with no extra draw, getting 2 extra cards on their turn is pretty amazing.
I can go into more detail if anybody wants via PM or whatever, but I wont bore you with a full match report on just two matches, lol...
The real thing ive come up with is that I feel 100% confidant that this deck works and is live so should be a good option come MB...of course we have to see what else shows up, but I would feel very comfy running something like this right off the bat. Ramp was my main concern and the deck handled things just as well as other UB types ive tried.
This is what im testing atm...ratchet bomb always has felt good to me, but ive got a lot of low cc stuff that it would kill too...I dunno, just trying it out...the great thing is that even if it isnt good at the very least it can be a 5/5 at some point ;p
I think the best bet for a Tezzeret control deck would be with infect. Have vector asp (tutorable with trinket mage) and mimic vat, so even if he gets killed you can imprint him. Then make it a 5/5 artifact beast and go to town. Shell the rest of the deck out from there (=
I think we need more utility artifacts for this deck to really work.
did you actually look at the artifacts I was suggesting? You also suggest that we dont have enough to keep metalcraft up cause effigy gets exiled??? which really makes me think you werent paying attention as we dont have anything in the deck that even uses metalcraft.
Ill go over them just in case you missed it.
Everflowing Chalice: Probably the least utility option, however it can be used early to "ramp" us into better options earlier and can always be used as a 5/5 at some point if tezz hits the board. Fetchable with trinket mage as well for double bonus.
Mimic Vat: We have so much removal that this is almost always a major beating for the opponent, it also makes our early trinket mage and revokers much better chump blockers and can enable really really stupid tricks with trinket mage and elixer of immortality.
Brittle Effigy: Fetchable Removal, yes it gets removed so you cant shuffle it back with elixer, and yes it means you cant put that creature on mimic vat, but its way too good not to run with trinket mage in the deck. bonus for being turn 1 removal so control cant really stop you from playing it early.
Elixer of Immortality: Tutorable...great against aggro and valakut...shuffle effect for Jace and food for tezz...with mimic vat around the stupid trinket mage thing is suprisingly amazing, lol.
Ratchet Bomb: how can this not be amazing utility...do I need to even explain this?
Phyrexian Revoker: early chump blocker with the ability to shut off any non land activated abilities? pretty amazing if you ask me...at the very very least he belongs in any tezz decks SB, but I even like him MD as many current decks are obvious what they are right off the first few plays.
Myr Battlesphere: As a win condition this could easily be a Wurmcoil Engine I guess...but; Battlesphere + Mimic Vat is just as obnoxious as wurmcoil and Battlesphere + Tezz is a major beating. No evasion you say? Well his ability lets him deal direct damage and it makes him very very big or lets you attack with 5 guys to get around a single blocker..id call that a form of evasion (the direct damage bit and tokens) the fact that he is a 4/7 also allows him to block a considerable portion of creatures in the format (not to mention his 4 buddies that come along with him as more blockers)without dying.
Seems like decent utility to me, all of these cards help allow this deck to attack from a number of different angles.
Flores looks at it like 60/5=12 which should average you out to 1 artifact every 5 which is perfect for tezz
Another guy pointed out that you shouldnt start the math till 4 mana and tezz are out of the deck so it would be 55/5=11
The math is there to back up the number of artifacts being run here in a UB control shell. The numbers improove with Jace fixing Tezz +1s also.
Im not saying this is the best version of UB Tezz control...but it is a good working starting point to give you guys a solid jumping off point to tune this deck to make it work for your meta. Id take this to a tournament no problem.
liquimetal is cool yah, but does nothing outside of having tezz on board...maybe could "counter" a Go for the Throat? lol. Maybe in some sort of more combo based tezz deck.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
4x Jace, The Mind Sculptor
4x Mana Leak
1x Consecrated Sphinx
1x Frost Titan
2x Trinket Mage
1x Treasure Mage
Black 6:
3x Go For the Throat
2x Doom Blade
1x Black Sun's Zenith
3x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Artifact 10:
2x Mimic Vat
3x Everflowing Chalice
1x Brittle Effigy
1x Elixer of Immortality
2x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Spine of Ish Sah
2x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Creeping Tar Pit
4x Drowned Catacombs
2x Darkslick Shores
4x Techtonic Edge
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Misty Rainforest
4x Swamp
6x Island
Some of the cards im starting with are obviously just to try out new set stuff and also just as filler till I get a better feel for the deck.
Treasure Mage can nab us a great creature vs aggro and a great utility removal card for the mid/late game.
Massacre Wurm and Consecrated Sphinx are pretty sweet imo, but could just as easily be grave/frost titans..both of these options seem more than good enough to test out though.
What are your versions of this deck? I know you guys are thinking of things...lets make this real.
also; Jace + Tezz = ridic.
___________________
Standard
UWR Midrange RWU
EDH
WUB[Riddle of the Etherium Gods - Sharuum the Hegemon]BUW
the problem is, is that you're trying to fit him in a current archetype. A different deck will be created for him and a 5/5 animated axe will be amazing.
Modern:
Affinity
EDH:
Rhys (Tokens)
Karrthus (Dragons)
Bruna (Auras OP)
I am trying to fit him into an existing deck type because I believe he can work very very well in that deck type.
Personally I can't imagine what is wrong with a PW that turns your used up artifacts into 5/5 beatsticks. Esp if the deck is using artifacts that deal directly with your opponents creatures or capability to fight back. Tezzeret enables quite a bit in a way similar to JTMS if not just simply far more narrower. It'll be interesting to get the cards and eventually playtest.
Standard
U// SoM/Inn Rotation Grixis Control W/L/D 22-7-2 (4-3 in 5k, Dropped 7th round)
Status: Reactivated
U// Inn/RtR Rotation Grixis Control Tournament W/L/D 3-1-0 Testing 1-0-0
Status: Active
Modern
Not getting into it yet. No local modern tourneys
EDH
G Azusa W/L/D 8-2-0 Status: Back! but retired for now
This is a good post, and I certainly agree that people are highly underestimating new Tezzeret right now.
He does have many similarities to Jace, and in some ways, much better than Jace. Jace's abilities are much more universal. Nearly every blue deck in the history of Magic has a need for brainstorming, bouncing creatures, and locking their opponents out of top decks. I believe that, in a vacuum, Jace is obviously the more powerful walker, simply because brainstorming is a bit more useful than a fixed Diabolic Vision. However, unlike Jace, Tezzeret's power increases exponentially the more you commit in his direction, like Koth. Unlike Koth, however, Tezzeret doesn't lock you into a single color to get the most out of him.
The single biggest deck building issue with Tezzeret is putting together a list with enough artifacts to NOT whiff on his +1. As people have pointed out, though, there are a decent number of artifacts that can have some value in a control-esque UB. You simply have to play to Tezz's strengths, without cramming in subpar artifacts, and maintaining a relatively solid UB shell.
For instance, here is a very rough, early UB list I've been testing with Tezzeret:
4 Trinket Mage
4 Wurmcoil Engine
Planeswalkers
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Artifacts
4 Tumble Magnet
4 Everflowing Chalice
2 Sphere of the Suns
3 Darksteel Axe
4 Mana Leak
3 Go for the Throat
Land
4 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Darkslick Shores
3 Tectonic Edge
3 Drowned Catacombs
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Marsh Flats
5 Island
2 Swamp
You have eight creatures that either are artifacts themselves, or produce artifacts. Even though Tezz can't draw a Mage himself, running into one is never a bad thing with Tezz out, considering Trinket will always produce an artifact. I originally ran Treasure, too, but figured what the hell, I may as well just run a set of Engines and go for raw power.
Anyway, Axes can always be slapped onto Wurmcoils and Wurmcoil tokens, and they even turn Trinket Mages into semi-formidible threats. They can also be hooked onto a Tar Pit before it crashes into an opposing Jace that just fatesealed. They're universally solid, and only become backbreaking when turned into 5/5 indestructible beasts.
This is a very early, rough list, but you get the point. I've tested completely different builds, including a solar flare Lux Cannon deck that used Voltaic Key, Proliferate, and was slower than all hell.
You can even throw Tezz into an infect deck that uses primarily the artifact creature infectors. Tezz essentially turns your creatures into 10/10s in such a deck.
There are a lot of different routes you can go with this guy and none of them should be ignored.
Edit: I've also splashed white just for Venser in an attempt to abuse Spine of Ish Sah and Ichor Wellspring, as well as resetting the counters on Magnet and Sphere. Venser is also useful at clearing the way for your 5/5 beatsticks, which are usually on the ground and lack evasion.
3 Trinket Mage
3 Treasure Mage
3 Wurmcoil Engine
Planeswalkers
3 Venser, the Sojourner
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Artifacts
3 Tumble Magnet
3 Everflowing Chalice
3 Sphere of the Suns
2 Darksteel Axe
1 Spine of Ish Sah
2 Ichor Wellspring
2 Go for the Throat
Land
3 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Celestial Colonnade
2 Darkslick Shores
2 Seachrome Coast
2 Glacial Fortress
1 Drowned Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Tectonic Edge
3 Island
2 Swamp
1 Plains
Banner courtesy of Skizzik_NZ and Maelstrom Graphics
Currently Playing:
Anything U in Theogony IX's Cube: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=5794231&postcount=1
Check out our EDH Cube! Constructive discussion welcomed. Hell, just a response would be nice.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=8316611&postcount=1
Why not 2 Treasure Mage 2 Wurmcoil?
I'm happy you put Tumble Magnet in this list. I've used it outside of artifact builds. A wonderful card that by the time it runs out of steam, you have a shell ready to become a 5/5 beater.
Brittle Effigy is another card that deserves a spot. I cut an Axe or 2 for it. Remember, you can always fetch that one Axe.
PucaTrade Invite. Sign up and enjoy the first 500 points ($5) free!
3x Wurmcoil Engine
2x Treasure Mage
Planeswalkers - 7
4x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Artifacts - 11
3x Brittle Effigy
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Everflowing Chalice
2x Tumble Magnet
2x Contagion Clasp
3x Spell Pierce
2x Mana Leak
2x Stoic Rebuttal
4x Preordain
Lands - 26
4x Creeping Tar Pit
4x Darkslick Shores
4x Drowned Catacomb
4x Tectonic Edge
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Verdant Catacombs
5x Island
3x Swamp
The weakest matchup seems to be Valakut due to the lack of Spreading Seas. On the other hand, once Tezz and Jace are on the field, what the Valakut player is doing seems to matter a lot less unless they're on the verge of going off.
I hate hate hate Treasure Mage...maybe things just arent going right yet to make it work in games or maybe my build is off, but it just really dissapointed me every time I saw it and I wished it was a trinket mage or just one of the 6cc+ artifacts I wanted to get instead....9 mana for a wurmcoil and 10 for ish sah/battlesphere just is not that amazing.
What is amazing? Mimic Vat was really scary good for me all day long, never ever a bad thing to see at any point in my games and did me a lot of good (lols trinket mage on vat + elixer of immortality is pretty silly) I dunno..with the amount of removal you can run plus it being an artifact for tezz just really seems way way too good not to run.
Brittle effigy is really good...all I can think up, makes too much sense with tezz/trinket mage.
I somehow even with all I did today only ended up playing Spine of Ish Sah like 2 or 3 times...its cool, but seems slow although I was able to recur it once to take out a few things....still though...I think im pretty ready to drop the whole idea of Treasure Mage at this point and just stick to easier to play items that do as much.
Phyrexian Revoker is probably fine in the SB, but he was occasionally pretty good...probably too narrow though for the MB..but still performed great overall...I like him for sure.
I tried out Chimeric Mass too as an obvious Trinket Mage/Tezz target and I was kinda underwhelmed by him..I obviously never really played him for bigger than what tezz would make him anyways, and just as often he might as well have been another brittle effigy or even chalice.
12 artifacts seems like a good number for Tezz...it still misses every once in a while, but its pretty rare, especially with Jace...other decks might need more, but 11-13 seems like the right number for a control type setup.
aside from that, you can run Treasure Mage and Wurmcoil and use Tez to pump the eventual tokens, or you can use Trinket Mage and Everflowing Chalice to get 5/5 mana dorks.
I havnt settled on an extra 15 as of yet...its been more of an extra 30 while testing to see what actually works which is why I didnt put a SB in the list in the first post...besides, what I would need to run for my meta might be a lot different than what you need in your meta.
Something along the lines of probably
2-3x Phyrexian Revoker (maybe cutting them from MD, although they have been amazing at times)
1x Brittle Effigy cause its good and exile is better than destroy a lot of times.
1-2x CtM/BSZ bringing my total up to 3 depending on MD useage..I think ill end u going 2 BSZ and 1 CtM most likely, at least for now as both cards seem better in certain situations.
2ishx Doom Blade/GftT to either bring my numbers up overall or to fix the type depending on matchup
3x Spell Pierce cause its just really good
2x Memoricide for valakut
3x Spreading Seas for valakut/vamps
1x Nihil Spellbomb as a maybe good mage/tezz target for some matchups, certainly not one to ignore
But thats pretty rough and obviously it doesnt take any new deck types into consideration which will probably show up by the dozen...so take it with a grain of salt obviously.
Ive also at the moment got Myr Battlesphere in over Wurmcoil Engine...but im still not sold on him, that 1 mana actually made a lot of difference a few times, and while battlesphere is obviously amazing with tezz out any time without Tezz and I wished it was Wurmcoil...so im not sure yet on that slot.
I used to agree with your idea of "no chalice/mass rather play good spells" and id include elixer into that as well...I didnt really like Nick Spagnolo's UB control list even though it won states (and did very well for a while after) because those things were terrible outside of your opening hand and seemed like super weak Trinket Mage targets (although elixer with jace was great and against aggro helped a bit)
The difference now is that those "useless" artifacts are now potentially game breaking with Tezz around. Chalice lets us "ramp" for a turn earlier planeswalker or other larger spell which helps us keep up with RUG and Ramp decks, and lets us cast CtM and BSZ earlier against aggro. It also now can both be a 5/5 creature and deal more damage with tezz abilities and gives us another card that tezz can "draw" us into which is double good with Jace's brainstorm ability....we get to take a shell that was decent before and give it purpose for the mid to late game that was never ever before possible.
Id like Tezz+Inkmoth more if Tezz could find Inkmoth with his +1 ability. I think there is potential for a poison based deck tho which might feature that...maybe...still dont like poison too much tho ;p
EDIT: Meant Trinket Mage.
LegacyUBRDelverRBU
In my opinon, inkmoth is not the best way to use Tezz 2.0, You'll get your one shot with it but next turn you would have to use Tezz -1 again if you want to make inkmoth fly again.
Meant Trinket Mage, my fault.
LegacyUBRDelverRBU
Pretty nervous about this match game 1, although depending on how you want to SB 2 and 3 should be pretty good overall for you..In fact I did lose both game 1s against those decks although both had what you could consider a very good hand against hands I kept that were kinda sketchy...for example I kept a hand against valakut game 1 (knowing he was on valakut) with 2x Tech edge and a swamp as my lands thinking id have plenty of time to hit land drops and be in it...but that never happened and it was a catch-up game the whole time which didnt work out too well for me, even though he missed on a summoning trap which was cool.
I won the other games (so 2-1 both matches) but 3 of those 4 were tight games where I had to play extreemely tight to not lose. The games are pretty similar to any other UB control match vs ramp, but I did find a few instances where I had some interesting lines of play to win out games...Elixer of Immortality was pretty key vs Valakut to be sure and Mimic Vat was the champ for the Eldrazi matchup. Treasure Mage actually worked good game 3 vs Valakut, although at that point I was winning anyways and it likely wouldnt have mattered...I was just glad that for once I drew him and wasnt bummed about it, lol. I could see Treaure Mage in a UG ramp sorta thing I guess...but even then you should probably have green suns zenith which would be better...maybe as creature tutor 5-8? lol. Myr Battlesphere was cool too today I suppose...Consecrated Sphinx wins games very quickly if not immediately dealt with, those saying hes no good I currently dont get...I hear "well you cant draw 6 against jace cause they will just bounce it.." Sure but then they go -1 on jace and dont get to brainstorm either....I really like him...even against decks with no extra draw, getting 2 extra cards on their turn is pretty amazing.
I can go into more detail if anybody wants via PM or whatever, but I wont bore you with a full match report on just two matches, lol...
The real thing ive come up with is that I feel 100% confidant that this deck works and is live so should be a good option come MB...of course we have to see what else shows up, but I would feel very comfy running something like this right off the bat. Ramp was my main concern and the deck handled things just as well as other UB types ive tried.
This is what im testing atm...ratchet bomb always has felt good to me, but ive got a lot of low cc stuff that it would kill too...I dunno, just trying it out...the great thing is that even if it isnt good at the very least it can be a 5/5 at some point ;p
4x Jace, The Mind Sculptor
4x Mana Leak
1x Consecrated Sphinx
1x Frost Titan
3x Trinket Mage
Black 6:
3x Go For the Throat
2x Doom Blade
1x Black Sun's Zenith
Gold 3:
3x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Artifact 12:
2x Mimic Vat
2x Everflowing Chalice
2x Brittle Effigy
1x Elixer of Immortality
2x Myr Battlesphere
2x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Ratchet Bomb
4x Creeping Tar Pit
4x Drowned Catacombs
2x Darkslick Shores
4x Techtonic Edge
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Misty Rainforest
4x Swamp
6x Island
3x Spreading Seas
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Consume the Meek
1x Black Sun's Zenith
1x Doom Blade
1x Go for the Throat
3x Memoricide
3x Spell Pierce
1x Nihil Spellbomb
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=9733836#post9733836
did you actually look at the artifacts I was suggesting? You also suggest that we dont have enough to keep metalcraft up cause effigy gets exiled??? which really makes me think you werent paying attention as we dont have anything in the deck that even uses metalcraft.
Ill go over them just in case you missed it.
Everflowing Chalice: Probably the least utility option, however it can be used early to "ramp" us into better options earlier and can always be used as a 5/5 at some point if tezz hits the board. Fetchable with trinket mage as well for double bonus.
Mimic Vat: We have so much removal that this is almost always a major beating for the opponent, it also makes our early trinket mage and revokers much better chump blockers and can enable really really stupid tricks with trinket mage and elixer of immortality.
Brittle Effigy: Fetchable Removal, yes it gets removed so you cant shuffle it back with elixer, and yes it means you cant put that creature on mimic vat, but its way too good not to run with trinket mage in the deck. bonus for being turn 1 removal so control cant really stop you from playing it early.
Elixer of Immortality: Tutorable...great against aggro and valakut...shuffle effect for Jace and food for tezz...with mimic vat around the stupid trinket mage thing is suprisingly amazing, lol.
Ratchet Bomb: how can this not be amazing utility...do I need to even explain this?
Phyrexian Revoker: early chump blocker with the ability to shut off any non land activated abilities? pretty amazing if you ask me...at the very very least he belongs in any tezz decks SB, but I even like him MD as many current decks are obvious what they are right off the first few plays.
Myr Battlesphere: As a win condition this could easily be a Wurmcoil Engine I guess...but; Battlesphere + Mimic Vat is just as obnoxious as wurmcoil and Battlesphere + Tezz is a major beating. No evasion you say? Well his ability lets him deal direct damage and it makes him very very big or lets you attack with 5 guys to get around a single blocker..id call that a form of evasion (the direct damage bit and tokens) the fact that he is a 4/7 also allows him to block a considerable portion of creatures in the format (not to mention his 4 buddies that come along with him as more blockers)without dying.
Seems like decent utility to me, all of these cards help allow this deck to attack from a number of different angles.
As for the number of artifacts? You say its not enough to make tezz work I guess....you dont have to take my word for it I guess, but 11-13 mathematically works out pretty well (http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/standard/20995_MichaelJ_Monday_Special_Edition_Depending_on_Tezzeret_Agent_of_Bolas.html)
Flores looks at it like 60/5=12 which should average you out to 1 artifact every 5 which is perfect for tezz
Another guy pointed out that you shouldnt start the math till 4 mana and tezz are out of the deck so it would be 55/5=11
The math is there to back up the number of artifacts being run here in a UB control shell. The numbers improove with Jace fixing Tezz +1s also.
Im not saying this is the best version of UB Tezz control...but it is a good working starting point to give you guys a solid jumping off point to tune this deck to make it work for your meta. Id take this to a tournament no problem.